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Israeli Army Frowns on D&D

CmdrTaco posted more than 9 years ago | from the gotta-cancel-my-tuesday-night-campaign dept.

It's funny.  Laugh. 984

Big Rob found us a gem of a story about the Israeli Army frowning on D&D players. Apparently '18-year-olds who tell recruiters they play the popular fantasy game are automatically given low security clearance.' I especially enjoyed the pictures of D&D players with swords, as generally the only thing in my hand during D&D is soda and/or swiss cake rolls. I'm thinking that a few generals should meet up with Jack Chick and have a good long discussion about the evils of role playing.

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984 comments

IDF has smart people working for them ... (2, Interesting)

YankeeInExile (577704) | more than 9 years ago | (#11889987)

I do not mean to cast aspersions on D and D players, but if IDF says that people who indulge in fantasy games, as a statistical group, have personality traits that make them a lower security risk, then I am inclined to believe them.

After all, these people have some of the best clinical and occupational psychologists in the world working for them.

One possible characteristic not mentioned in TFA was: People who role-play might be more inclined to game the system - definitely not a desirable personality trait to have in personnel deployed in sensitive positions.

Re:IDF has smart people working for them ... (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11890040)

I think you meant "higher" security risk.

Re:IDF has smart people working for them ... (0)

YankeeInExile (577704) | more than 9 years ago | (#11890076)

Blockquoth the Anonymous Coward:

I think you meant "higher" security risk.
D'oh! Yeah -- of course I meant higher

occupational psychologists ? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11890052)

occupational?

double-entendre there? maybe?

Re:IDF has smart people working for them ... (2, Interesting)

LewsTherinKinslayer (817418) | more than 9 years ago | (#11890057)

... personality traits that make them a lower security risk...

I'll assume you meant to say, higher security risk.

Also, I believe you have an excellent point. I and a bunch of my friends have been avid Mage players for a few years now. (Much better game, IMHO, check it out at http://www.white-wolf.com.) Anyways, one of my friends joined the army a few years ago, entering the intelligence branch. They eventually took away his security clearence because of some of the stuff he was analyzing about his unit.

Re:IDF has smart people working for them ... (5, Insightful)

idontgno (624372) | more than 9 years ago | (#11890066)

Wow.

but if IDF says that people who indulge in fantasy games, as a statistical group, have personality traits that make them a lower security risk, then I am inclined to believe them.

"They're really smart. They must know what they're talking about."

One possible characteristic not mentioned in TFA was: People who role-play might be more inclined to game the system - definitely not a desirable personality trait to have in personnel deployed in sensitive positions.

WTF? "Game the system"? If you play D&D you realize that "gaming the system" gets you in Shitsville with the game referee (the much maligned "Dungeon Master"). So if anything, D&D players are LESS inclined to "game the system".

I can't decide if you're an innocent clueless asshat or a troll. And I'm a fairly discerning reader. So hats off to you!

You got it wrong (0, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11890128)

If you play D&D you realize that "gaming the system" gets you in Shitsville with the game referee (the much maligned "Dungeon Master"). So if anything, D&D players are LESS inclined to "game the system".

Gaming the system means thinking out-of-box. Believe me, you don't want that in a soldier.

I think I've ascertained who you are. (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11890165)

I can't decide if you're an innocent clueless asshat or a troll. And I'm a fairly discerning reader. So hats off to you!You're a pompous prick. So what am I?

Personality faults (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11890068)

have personality traits that make them a lower security risk

Surely you mean more of a security risk?

I'd also argue that people who indulge in fantasy games have a tendency to be morally rigid and idealistic -- a bad trait in a soldier.

Re:IDF has smart people working for them ... (2, Funny)

dsginter (104154) | more than 9 years ago | (#11890071)

Indeed [google.com]. Dig for the video (I won't be rude enough to link to a single copy). You'll find yourself laughing because the typical D&D person does fall into one of these categories many times.

A good laugh, if anything.

Re:IDF has smart people working for them ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11890073)

...except that they're given a lower security clearance, not considered a lower risk. (This results in being barred from sensitive positions, as noted in TFA.)

Re:IDF has smart people working for them ... (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11890099)

remember though, at it's core the IDF is an arm of a religion based government. D&D players are looked down upon by "the faithful" because the characters they play may worship... well all of you know the story.

Re:IDF has smart people working for them ... (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11890255)

Wow, do you know a single thing about Israel? Israel is a secular government in a country that happens to have many jews. Many of the prominent figures in the government are jewish, it's even refered to as a jewish state, however the government is very secular. The best proof of this is the numerous Palestinians in Israeli territory (not in the west bank or gaza) who do not complain of religious discrimination of any kind.
Furthermore, the very religious in Israel tend not to serve in the army (or at least try not to)- these are the people who are the most likely to take issue with the characters in D&D (and even then, it's not likely)

Re:IDF has smart people working for them ... (1, Funny)

HTTP Error 403 403.9 (628865) | more than 9 years ago | (#11890118)

One possible characteristic not mentioned in TFA was: People who role-play might be more inclined to game the system - definitely not a desirable personality trait to have in personnel deployed in sensitive positions.

How do you game the system in D&D? Shaved dice? Counterfeit hit charts?

Re:IDF has smart people working for them ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11890229)

You game the system by gaming the dungeon master.

I've fast talked/threatened my dungeon master into letting me to throw two more extra dice every time I generate stats for a new character and pick the best three results. How? It was easy: "I don't like this character and when the next scenario begins, I'll just jump off the cliff. I'll do that until I get the stats/race/name/weapons I want". In his mind, letting me to use extra dice was a "compromise". ;-)

Re:IDF has smart people working for them ... (4, Interesting)

geekoid (135745) | more than 9 years ago | (#11890166)

haha... your funny. This is nothing more then ignorance.
The numbers they cite where pointless. How many people would not qualify for high clearence if ALL recruits went to see the psychiatrist? who knows.

Another case where someone who does something different has to experience bigitory. Personally, I would welcome some good open studies on role-players. The few that where done(that I know of) never found in results worth reporting.
I say this as someone who has play role-playing games since '76*.

*I loath to put out how long I have been playing, because I hate those 'I've been playing for x years therefore I am right' types. I do feel that disclosure is neccessary for context in this discussion.

Re:IDF has smart people working for them ... (1)

greg_barton (5551) | more than 9 years ago | (#11890179)

After all, these people have some of the best clinical and occupational psychologists in the world working for them.

And they also have the common bias of military types: anything too creative is scary and dangerous.

Re:IDF has smart people working for them ... (4, Interesting)

ackthpt (218170) | more than 9 years ago | (#11890222)

I do not mean to cast aspersions on D and D players, but if IDF says that people who indulge in fantasy games, as a statistical group, have personality traits that make them a lower security risk, then I am inclined to believe them. After all, these people have some of the best clinical and occupational psychologists in the world working for them.

Something carried on 60 minutes (take with whativer size grain of salw you wish) One other thing you may wish to consider, few of the radical-right, orhtodox jews, serve in combat rolls in the IDF. Why? Because they're religious scholars and exempt from such duty. Yet, they are usually the ones howling the loudest about how it's their promised land and establish these lovely settlements in whatever speck of land the palestinians have left. You can usually tell, when you see some footage on TV, these people are heavily armed and ready to die for their house on the pile of rocks they claimed for themselves. They also tend to have larger families and are expected to control the majority of the electorate in a country where the armed forces are mostly composed of the secular or moderate jews.

Re:IDF has smart people working for them ... (4, Interesting)

prgrmr (568806) | more than 9 years ago | (#11890259)

I'm guessing that the IDF pshrinks found that D&D gamers tend to be more indivualistic. Being in the military is, by necessity, to be part of a team and the team has to come first, thereby presenting an inherant conflict of interest which may present itself at some very inopportune moment.

Re:IDF has smart people working for them ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11890267)

"game the system"?

Are you calling D&D players spys? Yet the TFA says "The game indicates a weak personality", not a very desirable spy attribute.

Once again it looks like another group is trying to target the game and draws strange unfounded conclusions.

Besides, we all know that video games are causing all of lifes problems, not D&D this year.

D&D Out, Marijuana In??? (1)

lecithin (745575) | more than 9 years ago | (#11889991)


"We have discovered that some of them are simply detached from reality," a security source told Ynetnews.

And treating soldiers with marijuana will help?

http://www.hightimes.com/ht/news/content.php?bid=2 9&aid=24 [hightimes.com] :)

Re:D&D Out, Marijuana In??? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11890061)

yup, pot is great for helping one sleep and chasing away the bad feelings. 'Course it also encourages free thinking which most military services (and govts) don't approve of...

Re:D&D Out, Marijuana In??? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11890266)

I'm confused. When I read those personal ads about the swinger couple who is D&D Free [the-back-room.com], I didn't think it had anything to do with dragons!

I like D&D (5, Funny)

ect5150 (700619) | more than 9 years ago | (#11890003)

I like D&D. But after seeing some of those pics (before the slashdot effect), I frown on it too!

It Could Be Worse (5, Funny)

American AC in Paris (230456) | more than 9 years ago | (#11890004)

I think the IDF is going a little overboard, here. I mean, it's just D&D; it's not like they're going around eating cheeseburgers and shellfish, or something crazy like that.

Heck, you'd think they'd get a leg up for it--for example, as D&D precludes any and all contact with females, they run no risk of sexual transgression whatsoever!

Re:It Could Be Worse (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11890091)

cheeseburgers and shellfish? I like my shellfish ON cheeseburgers. Pass me another bacon swiss shrimpburger, please.

Roll the dice... (5, Funny)

Pugflop (797868) | more than 9 years ago | (#11890011)

My level 12 Galil with plumbum bullets strike down the level 4 suicide bomber. 100EXP and 12GP. :D

Re:Roll the dice... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11890088)

12GP

More likely you get zilch and are out your bullets.

Re:Roll the dice... (1)

RobertB-DC (622190) | more than 9 years ago | (#11890182)

My level 12 Galil with plumbum bullets strike down the level 4 suicide bomber. 100EXP and 12GP. :D

Yeah, but don't forget you have to roll 2d6 for damage from stone-throwing bystanders.

There's a good reason (5, Insightful)

CSMastermind (847625) | more than 9 years ago | (#11890014)

Think about it. D&D attracts imaginitive players who are able to think for themselves. Now does that seem like people you want in your Army? I ship out to Marine boot camp Aug. 1st and people have told me over and over again that when I get there...I shouldn't stand out. D&D players are different...and normally very smart. In an army you want drones who can think for themselves but will never question orders. Why do you think the great dictators killed teachers???

Re:There's a good reason (1)

Reducer2001 (197985) | more than 9 years ago | (#11890090)

Why are you joining the Marines? If you think you're 'different' and 'very smart', then you're probably going to have a very difficult 4+ years....

Re:There's a good reason (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11890201)

He didn't say he was a D&D player, he didn't say he was "very smart" and he didn't say he was "different". Try reading it again.

Re:There's a good reason (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11890098)

>Think about it. D&D attracts imaginitive players
>who are able to think for themselves.

D&D attracts people who need umpteen rule books to define their lives.

Re:There's a good reason (5, Insightful)

deft (253558) | more than 9 years ago | (#11890126)

"Think about it. D&D attracts imaginitive players who are able to think for themselves. Now does that seem like people you want in your Army?"

If you are going to make broad generalizations about D&D players, I'll go ahead and say are you sure you want a bunch of pasty white never been outside dice rollers carrying around guns in a battlefield not taking orders because they are "thinking for themselves?".

Nope, but dont worry, this former D&D player was all state, all conference, MVP, etc in HS and college waterpolo. Not all D&D players are your typical generalization. Nor are all of them imaginative.

Activates "anti-troll" shield... (1)

BTWR (540147) | more than 9 years ago | (#11890020)

**Activates "anti-troll" shield against off-topic anti-Israel rants***

Activated! Your idiotic rants now effortlessly bounce off me!

D&D or LARP? (5, Informative)

tsanth (619234) | more than 9 years ago | (#11890024)

Judging from the article, it seems that the IDF is frowning upon LARPers, not D&Ders per se.

At least, that's what I get from all the pictures and quotations like "[soon] hundreds of fans are expected to meet in a forest in the southern part of Israel for a two-day game of pure fantasy."

Re:D&D or LARP? (1)

jedidiah (1196) | more than 9 years ago | (#11890263)

Yup.

Apparently, the journalists in question or the IDF is unable to distinguish between your garden variety role players and LARPers.

Nevermind the whole can of worms opened up by the fact that D&D is just so 80's. There are generations of games that have come and gone to supplant D&D.

Someone is stuck in the 70's.

Looking for a few good men? (0, Flamebait)

ackthpt (218170) | more than 9 years ago | (#11890026)

"They're detached from reality and suscepitble to influence," the army says.

After following a lot of the news regarding reprisals against palestinians and realizing the IDF acts with a higher degree of autonomy than US forces, I've wondered who-the-heck's influencing them. I've known a considerable variety of people who have played D&D and/or been active in the SCA (The Society for Creative Anachronism [sca.org]) and find most are no more delusional that your average baseball fan, stamp collector or technology geek. I rather expect it's more along the lines of these people really not being easily subverted, unlike some ultra patriot who will do whatever a commanding officer says, even it would strike the man-on-the-street as an outrage.

To launch Air To Ground missiles into civilian areas, which may harm innocent bystanders, plow people's homes because they live too close to the egyptian border and enforce some kind of colonial marshall law in a ghetto takes a special personality, quite likely someone who can be easily broken down and then built up into a new unquestioning soldier, rather than someone who can think for themselves and consider 'hey, this isn't right'

Re:Looking for a few good men? (1)

BTWR (540147) | more than 9 years ago | (#11890149)

To launch Air To Ground missiles into civilian areas, which may harm innocent bystanders

Glad to see someone is talking out against Qassam rockets [bbc.co.uk] (you know... the rockets fired at civilians that have so far killed 3 infants and one of their fathers)

I Agree (1)

SenFo (761716) | more than 9 years ago | (#11890038)

Sorry to makek fun of some the regulars, but every D&D player I've ever met is weird. I don't even want to work with them.

Re:I Agree (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11890258)

Agreed! I know quite a few.. they are very anti social, they are fat, they look funny, and they SMELL REAL BAD. Not someone you'd like to be around for too long.

I wouldn't trust 'em either. (5, Funny)

Peldor (639336) | more than 9 years ago | (#11890043)

Players are always trying to peek behind the DM's screen so they can see what's coming up next. Cheating on the dice rolls, making up munchkin characters, sneaking a look at the monster manual, etc. Untrustworthy, the whole lot of em.

ha (1)

geekoid (135745) | more than 9 years ago | (#11890048)

"which entails directing the game and controlling the labyrinth, "

somebody watched 1 too many bad tv 'movies' in the 70's.

plus, those wherre pictures of LARPers.... freaks. ;)

Scary (1)

Quasar1999 (520073) | more than 9 years ago | (#11890051)

I think there are certain things that should be warning signs... I like Star Trek, if I sign up to be in the navy and say that, they might laugh... if I show up at the navy dressed in full costume, they have something to worry about, and probably shouldn't give me any position with any access (read security clearence) as I'm probably not the most mentally stable person... don't you think that's pruedent?

+1 smartbomb (4, Funny)

Doc Ruby (173196) | more than 9 years ago | (#11890054)

Is a bomb an "edged weapon"? Maybe the IDF just doesn't want clerics to know they have a better chance "to hit" with a guided missile than with a war hammer, mace or morningstar.

Maybe /. eds should start reading FARK (1)

blair1q (305137) | more than 9 years ago | (#11890056)

because damn... the same story was posted there a long time ago (and why aren't links to it working?)

The IDF Should Employ Me (1)

PepeGSay (847429) | more than 9 years ago | (#11890063)

My level 71 thief can get all the "security clearance" I need. I'll send my level 72 Ogre in with my level 74 Mage and work out that whole middle east issue with a few rolls of the dice.

I especially enjoyed (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11890065)

the Jack Chick pictures of girls playing D&D.

Re:I especially enjoyed (1)

CSMastermind (847625) | more than 9 years ago | (#11890097)

Most of the times I've played there's been girls there. Someone we know from school or a girlfreind who's curious.

Re:I especially enjoyed (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11890243)

Yeah. I mean, the guy thinks God talks to him on a regular basis and that there is an international satanist conspiracy. Ok, I can let that slide. But girls playing D&D? He's clearly dillusional.

qsl (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11890075)

Well, you know, if they are D&D players, they are security risks.

First girl to show a little skin, and your entire North Atlantic operations become a blustered marriage proposal.

Can you imagine what secrets would be divulged if you let them get to third base?

I bet it's an independent thought thing (1)

nurd68 (235535) | more than 9 years ago | (#11890078)

I find that gamers are much better at independent thought and analysis, and are, in general, much more creative than non-gamers. (This is not a 100% correlation. Indeed, many gamers are complete weenies. However, a former employer hired several people out of my gaming group and was specifically asking me for more of them, because they were engineers, programmers and technicians who could come up with more inventive solutions, so it does hold some water). Anyway, this is often contrary to military and security needs.

Re:I bet it's an independent thought thing (1)

deft (253558) | more than 9 years ago | (#11890218)

"However, a former employer hired several people out of my gaming group and was specifically asking me for more of them, because they were engineers, programmers and technicians"

I'm sure your former employer was looking for engineers, programmers, and technicians that happneed to be in a group (D&D players) that he could tap for the skills he needed, not the other way around. I doubt D&D played any part in it.

But... but... (2, Funny)

Xaroth (67516) | more than 9 years ago | (#11890083)

I don't want to be in the Army any more! I want to be Debbie!

(Attn: Read the Jack Chick tract before modding this offtopic.)

Heh. Should I turn myself in now? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11890084)

Pretty funny. Of my dozen-or-so junior high/high school D&D friends, there are now two lieutenant colonels, one captain (he signed up very late in life), and three more of us with DOD security clearances out in the real world. All USA, I should say; D&D has never come up in any of my investigations...

I used D&D to control my parents' minds. (1)

Elwood P Dowd (16933) | more than 9 years ago | (#11890093)

I had a collection of 1980s Dragon Magazines. One of them had an editorial about a brochure that had been circulating, that advertised Dungeons & Dragons as an excellent way to learn hypnotism, control your parents minds, and force them to buy you more D&D books. The editorial did a little digging, and discovered who had published the brochure, but I've forgotten.

The weird thing about it, is to think that people would go out of their way to make D&D look bad. I mean, if you think it's bad, that's your deal, but wtf do you get from villainizing it? It was strange to my 12 year old mind.

Anyway. Adults who are into live action roleplayers are detached from reality. That's the goal. Maybe the Israeli army is onto something.

d n d (1)

dmf415 (218827) | more than 9 years ago | (#11890102)

I roll the dice .......
i have just inflicted 7 hit points of damage upon you , aa haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

D&D Players (1)

elecngnr (843285) | more than 9 years ago | (#11890114)

I do not understand what their problem is. D&D players are a productive bunch of people who are driven, goal orientated.........ohhh, I have to finish this later, it is my fighter/wizard/theif's turn to attack the dragon. I use my +5 Sword of....

Real swords? (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11890120)

If I interviewed people who thougth D&D was played with real swords, I'd downgrade their security clearance too - because I wouldn't think they were bright enough to trust with secrets.

Right (1)

Erwos (553607) | more than 9 years ago | (#11890134)

"I'm thinking that a few generals should meet up with Jack Chick and have a good long discussion about the evils of role playing."

Because, as you know, the _Jewish_ generals of the IDF really give a crap about what some psychotic _Christian_ thinks about D&D and religion.

But, blah blah, cue the anti-Israel rants, however OT they may be.

-DMZ

Re:Right (4, Interesting)

wk633 (442820) | more than 9 years ago | (#11890265)

The biggest supporters for the state of Isreal are radical Christians, who see it as a neccessary precursor to the rapture.

Not that they'd neccessarily agree on much in one-on-one dialog :-)

the only thing in my hand during D&D is soda.. (-1, Flamebait)

Quazion (237706) | more than 9 years ago | (#11890143)

I think your mistaking Advanced Dungeon's and Dragons with Dungeon's and Dragons the latter is played in forest with real people etc...

AD&D is just a paper and dice game....have fun :)

Re:the only thing in my hand during D&D is sod (2, Informative)

bluprint (557000) | more than 9 years ago | (#11890206)

Um...no. Dungeons and Dragons is the direct precursor to AD&D. It was played with pencil/paper just like AD&D, except with simpler rules, but basically the same. Further, most gamers generically say "D&D", even when really referring to "AD&D".

In your hand, huh? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11890145)

"generally the only thing in my hand during D&D is soda and/or swiss cake rolls"

What a beautiful metaphor for your penis.

Don't overreact! (1)

badmammajamma (171260) | more than 9 years ago | (#11890146)

The article says, "We have discovered that some of them are simply detached from reality," a security source told Ynetnews.

Anyone who has played that game knows people who are in fact detached from reality. Of course, that's not everyone but they probably don't have time to do a bunch of research on every recruit to see if that person is safe or not for high security work.

X-Files said it perfectly (1)

Chairboy (88841) | more than 9 years ago | (#11890153)

In Jose Chung's 'From Outer Space' (the episode with the smoking alien):

Jose: Aren't you worried?
Video Guy: I didn't spend all those years playing Dungeons and Dragons and not learn a little something about courage.

73h (1)

Plaid Phantom (818438) | more than 9 years ago | (#11890163)

Most soldiers who play Dungeons and Dragons simply do not admit to it while they are in teh [sic] army, he says.

I wonder what they do to those who say "teh" in proper speech. : )

Of course (0, Flamebait)

wschalle (790478) | more than 9 years ago | (#11890184)

A DnD player whose character is a chaotic good elf or some such would be averse to slaughtering palestinians and driving tanks over their homes, thus unsuitable for a leadership or "sensitive" position.

Not sure why this belongs on slashdot...

Only D&D? (1)

ecalkin (468811) | more than 9 years ago | (#11890189)

What i found interesting was that they didn't talk about role playing games (RPGs), just D&D. The 'live-action' D&D may be what's spooking them.

eric

My favorite quote... (1)

badmammajamma (171260) | more than 9 years ago | (#11890190)

"The army is not indifferent to the unique hobby and is trying to locate soldiers who in their free time dress up as witches and play in forests."

roflmao

*Linux is dying (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11890192)

*Linux is dying

Yet another crippling bombshell hit the beleaguered *Linux community when last month IDC confirmed that *Linux accounts for less than a fraction of 1 percent of all servers. Coming on the heels of the latest Netcraft survey which plainly states that *Linux has lost more market share, this news serves to reinforce what we've known all along. *Linux is collapsing in complete disarray, as further exemplified by falling dead last [goatse.cx] in the recent Kreskin test.

You don't need to be a Kreskin [slashdot.org] to predict *Linux's future. The hand writing is on the wall: *Linux faces a bleak future. In fact there won't be any future at all for *Linux because *Linux is dying. Things are looking very bad for *Linux. As many of us are already aware, *Linux continues to lose market share. Red ink flows like a river of blood. Debianis the most endangered of them all.

Let's keep to the facts and look at the numbers.

Red Hat leader Theo states that there are 7000 users of Red Hat. How many users of Mandrake are there? Let's see. The number of Red Hat versus Mandrake posts on Usenet is roughly in ratio of 5 to 1. Therefore there are about 7000/5 = 1400 Mandrake users. Slackware posts on Usenet are about half of the volume of Mandrake posts. Therefore there are about 700 users of Slackware. Arecent article put Debian at about 80 percent of the *Linux market. Therefore there are (7000+1400+700)*4 = 36400 Debian users. This is consistent with the number of Debian Usenet posts.

Due to the troubles of Walnut Creek,abysmal sales and so on,Debian went out of business and was taken over by BSDI who sell another troubled *Linux. Now BSDI is also dead, its corpse turned over to another charnel house.

All major surveys show that *Linux has steadily declined in market share. *Linux is very sick and its long term survival prospects are very dim. If *Linux is survive at all it will be among *Linux hobbyist dabblers. *Linux continues to decay. Nothing short of a miracle could save it at this point in time. For all practical purposes, *Linux is dead.

*Linux is dying

yuh-gi-oh (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11890193)

Yeah, they prefer to have the guys with the keys to the nukes play yuh-gi-oh instead.

If the IDF says so... (-1, Flamebait)

presarioD (771260) | more than 9 years ago | (#11890211)

... then it is definitely a trait I'd like to have. Being excluded from one of the most murderous and trigger-happy armies in the world is something I'd like to put in my CV...

Yeah, by the way I didn't make it to Murder Inc. last year (please hire me now)...

D&D players are creative thinkers (2, Insightful)

CdXiminez (807199) | more than 9 years ago | (#11890214)

Since D&D players are above-average intelligence and creative thinkers, they probably make less obedient soldiers and might question orders and the purpose of military action. Also, they realize that the world doesn't have to be the way it is.

I'd think they would want them... (2, Insightful)

LurkerXXX (667952) | more than 9 years ago | (#11890215)

It seems kind of strange. Back in my D&D days, most of the game in our groups was about combat. Lots of work on strategy, using the resources at hand, layout of the battlefield, etc, to keep your character alive and obtain your objective. Plenty of practice thinking like that is something I'd think would be desirable in a military recruit.

Apparently I must be mentally unbalanced though, so don't trust my judgment on that one. I'm all detached from reality and stuff.

Games Help to Think Unconventionally (2, Interesting)

Spencerian (465343) | more than 9 years ago | (#11890224)

Fallacious thinking on behalf of Israel military people. I wonder if a county whose identity is rooted so strongly in a state-sponsored faith can see outside of the box as the United States has in accepting almost any religion, yet taking no direct preference in any one.

(This isn't a jab at the Jewish faith at all. I'm about to join the Catholic faith myself, but the question is there, as I'll explain.)

There are a few studies that show positives with game playing. At heart, a proper game based on reality or fantasy settings in an Earth-like setting is a simulation. Sims teach with low costs and reduce or eliminate the expenses needed in live training. Twitch games aid in dexterity and coordination, of course.

And the US Army believes that a good sim of their work is also not only a fun game, but a great recruiting tool. [americasarmy.com]

While board games like D&D itself may not show an immediate dividend to fighting a war, consider that any game helps plot strategy, conserve resources, and deal consequence.

Game playing may help a soldier think "outside of the box" in a combat situation where unusual solutions with conventional weapons and tactics may prove worthwhile. It seems that the Israeli Army may decide to stick to convention.

Other forms of reality detachment (1)

wk633 (442820) | more than 9 years ago | (#11890230)

Wonder if they ask people if they read fiction or go to movies...

Weird... (2, Interesting)

Jethro (14165) | more than 9 years ago | (#11890236)

I think this only shows one side of the story.

They do ask you about your hobbies when you go through recruitment (at 16 years old). They may assume that people who play fantasy games are a 'security risk', but they definitely recognize that kids who play complex rule-based cooporative games in their teens /do/ have some valuable qualities, too.

The Israeli army tends to know how to assign people to jobs they'd be good at. And use the rest for cannon fodder. Or, in my case, tell them to just stay home if it's all the same.

The Israeli Army, If You'll Recall (1)

autosentry (595252) | more than 9 years ago | (#11890247)

. . . Gave us the UZI! A fabulously ineffective weapon crucial to the Shadowrun RPG and various bad action movies. Who's to say who's in touch with reality?

Data Point (1)

pete-classic (75983) | more than 9 years ago | (#11890252)

I was in the US Army.

TS/SBI. Airborne. Served in the Balkins.

Played D&D as a teen. Recently started playing again.

Honorably discharged. Never created a security risk.

For whatever that's worth.

-Peter

That's Awesome (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11890257)

I had to pretend I was gay to get kicked out of the military. I'd much rather have just played a board game.

Frowning on D&D (1)

[cx] (181186) | more than 9 years ago | (#11890269)

Imagine what they think of World of Warcraft!

A side note about the D&D, it would be funny if they went out on patrols roleplaying a rogue and a mage.

"Gadzooks, Gremai, it looks like we stumbled upon some low level Palestinian Knights."
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