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89 comments

By the time it comes out... (5, Funny)

Bin_jammin (684517) | more than 9 years ago | (#11897552)

the laws of physics will have changed. Whenever...

Re:By the time it comes out... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11897572)

Yanno, DNF jokes are so damned 2003. And 2001. And... Well, they're old and tired. Yet, I have to hand it to Bin Jammin.

Re:By the time it comes out... (5, Funny)

wakejagr (781977) | more than 9 years ago | (#11897629)

Yanno, DNF jokes are so damned 2003. And 2001. And... Well, they're old and tired. Yet, I have to hand it to Bin Jammin.

DNF has been vaporware for so long that even jokes about how old and tired the jokes are about DNF being vaporware are old and tired.

My brain hurts . . .

Re:By the time it comes out... (2, Funny)

Wwolmack (731212) | more than 9 years ago | (#11897582)

Re:By the time it comes out... (2, Interesting)

roseblood (631824) | more than 9 years ago | (#11897610)

You've got it all wrong, let me set you right...

here [wikipedia.org]

then again it might be

here [wikipedia.org]

or perhaps even

here! [wikipedia.org]

Re:By the time it comes out... (1)

Keebler71 (520908) | more than 9 years ago | (#11898915)

I hear the physics engine for Duke Nukem Forever is the same one used in the Infinite Improbability Drive [wikipedia.org] .

I'm scared... (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11897564)

You mean there's a real game behind this that might actually be released someday? That's scary, when you consider the release of this game would signal the end of the world more than say, the Rapture would, to most gamers.

Re:I'm scared... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11898303)

No chance. IT's been dead in Sweden for close to twenty years. First it was the brain drain, then it was the rise of crapware.

Germany, Netherlands, or Spain is the place to be for development. Sweden's too busy worshiping Bill, they're even naming their kids after him [www.scb.se] year after year.

DNF? (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11897565)

How come we haven't heard of this game before now? It sounds great. I can't wait for it to be released.

Re:DNF? (1)

GearType2 (614552) | more than 9 years ago | (#11897574)

please someone with mod points, please mod this up funny, I damn near pissed my pants.

Re:DNF? (5, Funny)

tal256 (128219) | more than 9 years ago | (#11897741)

In autoracing circles, DNF stands for "Did Not Finish". I wonder if this applies here too....

Re:DNF? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11903519)

FYI: DNF is not exclusive to autoracing. It's used by racing of all forms, and it doesn't always imply that you started the race. About 15 years ago I got got a DNF for a false start in the 100m: I fell out of my blocks at the regional invitational because I was too nervous! (n.b. I won the 200m finals, but I still kick myself for the false start in the first heat of the 100m prelims *sniff*).

Re:DNF? (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11897788)

Yes, ladies and gentlemen, it's true. A gamer has been born and grown up since we started waiting for Duke Nukem Forever to be released. That's how long we've been waiting.

Re:DNF? (1)

gr18563 (848290) | more than 9 years ago | (#11901287)

Yes, it has been quite sometime since good ole duke went in for some upgrades hasn't it :).

Ole, ole ole ole (2, Interesting)

TheGuano (851573) | more than 9 years ago | (#11897612)

The fabric stuff sounds just like the goal-net "physics" in every soccer game since 2000. I don't have much confidence in DNF, but with HL2 and PPUs, "physics" seems to be the new buzzword in town.

Re:Ole, ole ole ole (2, Insightful)

Tyreth (523822) | more than 9 years ago | (#11897925)

I've never played these soccer games, but I'd guess that not needing a physics engine to make a good game (neither do FPS's...) that any cloth like appearance of a net is just tricks that programmers use. It would be relatively easy to code a flexible moving net that looks right when a soccer ball hits it without making a real physics engine that handles cloth. So yes, there's every chance that this fabric stuff in this physics engine is far more powerful and "real" than in a soccer game.

Re:Ole, ole ole ole (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11901564)

Well, football games (I'm not from the states) can use a realistic fabric simulation, I mean, you have one ball and two nets, that's not even good enough for a tech demo of a physics engine ;)

Re:Ole, ole ole ole (2, Insightful)

Quinn (4474) | more than 9 years ago | (#11898547)

Physics isn't just a "buzzword." Physics is what makes a game real, far more than graphics. Hell, simply by porting any recent physics engine to Quake would make it an entirely different game. I spent my first hour in HL2 just throwing bottles at a lady in the train station!

Proper physics engines make it possible to model reality, and that's the goal of every game from fantasy to sports: to render a consistent world.

Re:Ole, ole ole ole (1)

Malor (3658) | more than 9 years ago | (#11898787)

There's a game you should check out, called Trespasser. If you spent an hour throwing bottles at a lady in a train station.... this is your DREAM GAME, man!

Re:Ole, ole ole ole (1)

Phisbut (761268) | more than 9 years ago | (#11898838)

Physics is what makes a game real, far more than graphics.
I spent my first hour in HL2 just throwing bottles at a lady in the train station!

That's not making the game more real... Two hours of throwing bottles at a woman... if it were real, you'd either have knocked her dead, or she defended herself, or cops took you away...

A.I. is what makes a game real...

But... (1)

KrisW (613034) | more than 9 years ago | (#11899186)

Not being real is what makes a game a game...

Re:Ole, ole ole ole (1)

cowscows (103644) | more than 9 years ago | (#11899815)

Yeah, but for actual realism, you need to have a realistic world for the AI to act in.

The developers have been hammering on graphics for years. Sound to a degree as well, although that's probably the easiest part to get done well.

Physics and AI are what's left, and physics seems to be the easier of those two problems, so it's going to get the attention first. The AI is just going to take a while longer.

Ehem. (1)

memco (721915) | more than 9 years ago | (#11907124)

Um, I uh... anyone else contemplate how artificial and reality are understood to mean the same thing?

Re:Ehem. (1)

Phisbut (761268) | more than 9 years ago | (#11909919)

Um, I uh... anyone else contemplate how artificial and reality are understood to mean the same thing?

Well yeah... Just start with the fact that Virtual Reality is derived from artificial reality [pcai.com] , and then you build from there...

Re:Ole, ole ole ole (1)

Hamled (742266) | more than 9 years ago | (#11899692)

Proper physics engines make it possible to model reality, and that's the goal of every game from fantasy to sports: to render a consistent world. Not every game's goal is to simulate reality as much as possible. Some games purposefully differ drastically from reality, including in the physics. Some games are helped by being more accurate simulations, some aren't. Even the Havok engine purposefully doesn't simulate everything as accurately as it could, because it doesn't look right in the game.

Re:Ole, ole ole ole (2, Insightful)

Quinn (4474) | more than 9 years ago | (#11899763)

That's why I said "render a consistent world." The world doesn't necessarily have to be just like ours, but it should adhere to a set of physical laws such that your actions entail logical reactions.

What do you do for a living? (2, Interesting)

Dr.Opveter (806649) | more than 9 years ago | (#11897613)

How would you answer honestly when someone asks you what you do for a living when you're working on the physics technology for Duke Nukem Forever without sounding like an idiot.

I actually almost got involved in doing the music for Duke Nukem Forver. I must say i don't regret it didn't happen.

Re:What do you do for a living? (4, Funny)

CrazyJim1 (809850) | more than 9 years ago | (#11897704)

3d Realms recently posted an ad for developers on gamasutra.

I replied,"I too have worked on a game for over 10 years and refined my skills yet never completed it. I think I'd be perfect for your team."

Re:What do you do for a living? (1)

Patrik_AKA_RedX (624423) | more than 9 years ago | (#11897881)

I must say i don't regret it didn't happen.
Why? You would have had unprecedented job security.

Re:What do you do for a living? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11918699)

Why ? You would have very long term job security.

Profit if you (1)

oever (233119) | more than 9 years ago | (#11897620)

Quickly, patent it in Europe!

(more info here [softwarepatenten.be] .)

Release the damn game, 'cause I want to play!!! (1)

creimer (824291) | more than 9 years ago | (#11897621)

I been waiting so long for this game that I can start singing the song [amiright.com] or watch the music video [newgrounds.com] instead.

Wait, where's the demo? (0, Flamebait)

TheGuano (851573) | more than 9 years ago | (#11897631)

Basically, all this article is saying is that "somewhere, someone thinks this game is good."

This Link is Useless Without Video.

Hey, next time, read it. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11897690)

What the artical says, is that the physics demo is fast, impressive, and going to be all over games for the next generation consols. I think this is the generation where the PC really takes it in the ass as a gaming platform.

Hey, next time, read it critically (3, Insightful)

TheGuano (851573) | more than 9 years ago | (#11897737)

Right, and because some guy says it's fast, impressive, and going to be all over games for the next generation consols (sic), it's conclusively proven to be so?

Especially for this type of hyped-up claim, I'd really like the opportunity to judge, or at least see it for myself. If you say you're going to change the world, I'd prefer you bring some evidence to the table rather than have closed-door accounts spinning your PR for you.

Re:Hey, next time, read it critically (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11897963)

This is what comes before the more substantial proof. Yeah, it's a step up from the press release. And? If you're not interested at what might be over the horizon, don't peek. What's so complicated about that?

That said. Given the computing power available now, it's not "incredible." That something like this exists (perhaps) as a commercial product so far along, promises a far richer game play experience.

And if accurate, it IS a serious threat to PC gaming. The original poster was simply completely wrong when it comes to what the article is about. And you're discounting it completely based on Missouri logic, which makes one wonder why you're even wasting your time on a thread about next-generation anything!

Re:Hey, next time, read it critically (1)

TheGuano (851573) | more than 9 years ago | (#11898756)

"This is what comes before the more substantial proof. Yeah, it's a step up from the press release. And? If you're not interested at what might be over the horizon, don't peek. What's so complicated about that?"

Um...yeah. You see, that's exactly my point (and this subject line you've chosen remains oh so apropos). The news title reads "DNF Physics Impress." And the link is to "a stunning demonstration of its latest physics technology." Sit sit back for one second and consider what a reasonable person would expect to see when they click through to that? No shit I wouldn't have peeked if I knew it was nothing more than what it turned out to be.

Re:Hey, next time, read it critically (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11898851)

Especially for this type of hyped-up claim, I'd really like the opportunity to judge, or at least see it for myself.

Go to their website. Download the demo. See for yourself.

I particularly recommend the demos in the "custom elements" section. Realistic water effects done entirely with polygons (no pixel shaders), cloth that billows just like cloth... sure, it's a demo with limited scenes, but this is next-gen stuff running smoothly for me on a lowly 1.4-GHz machine with an ancient GeForce 3.

Has to (2, Funny)

daeley (126313) | more than 9 years ago | (#11897651)

Has to have the latest physics technology since its release will freeze over Hell and give the power of flight to pigs, not to mention pulling one of the seals off the Book of Judgment and releasing the End Times. :)

do i want to believe ? (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11897665)

This news is as equivalent as UFO using a jet engine to generate thrust force. Altough the theory plausible ( the jet engine ), the UFO it's self a myth.

Ow and i dont believed Elvis still alive, let alone duke nukem forever will exist.

I willing to bet jesus second coming rather than duke nukem forever gone gold.

Re:do i want to believe ? (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11897756)

the UFO it's self

"itself". Jesus Christ. Your whole post is fucked up. "I willing to bet jesus second coming"?? For Christ's sake! Are you drunk or something?

7 years and counting (4, Interesting)

SmallFurryCreature (593017) | more than 9 years ago | (#11897747)

So much has changed. ID made it big with wolvenstein but really got well known for Doom. Even big enough to have talks of making a movie out of it and that is pretty big for a vid game.

Duke Nukem already existed as a platformer but after the success of doom it also went 3D. Or rather 2.5D if I remember correctly. Like Doom I don't recall being able to walk under things. Meaning the floor plan was essentially 1 story with differences in heights. Odd because at the same time the game System Shock did have a full 3D world although still using 2D sprites for characters.

Then in 1998 talk really started about a sequel being in the works. To give you an idea how old duke nukem 3D was then already. The new Duke Nukem would use the quake 2 engine. So ID had done Quake AND quake 2 by the time 3D realms was ready for its next attempt.

Since then ID has released Quake 3 and of course Doom 3. 3D realms in the mean time switched from the quake 2 engine to the unreal engine while over the years the unreal engine has had plenty of upgrades as well.

Luckily 3Dreals claims that they replaced most of the unreal code. Good thing because the original while ground breaking at the time is now a bit dated.

But not just graphics engines have changed. The pure "walk around shooting things and collecting key cards" thing has changed. Games like Half-Life added a story. Dues EX added character interaction beyond getting strippers to flash their titties and started with physics (I still love being able to shoot your rifle up in the air and then hearing the bullets fall back down). Half-Life 2 added an even better physics engine that worked on more of the world. Operation Flashpoint added huge outdoor worlds with vehicles.

No game has yet done it all but my fear is that Duke Nukem Forever is trying to do just that. Lets face it. They can't get away with a Doom or even a Quake clone. Unreal has beaten them to it. We gonna at least want a bit of story telling ala half-life. Some nice open levels at least of the unreal level if not Operation Flashpoint. Something to drive perhaps. Physics and some destruction of the level.

The bar just keeps being raised higher and higher for 3d realms. Who can beat the looks of Doom 3 (yeah yeah anybody that can put the pc monitor in power save mode)?

We all remember daikatana. Tried so much. Failed at even more.

Now 3D realms is using its own money to fund this so perhaps it is nothing more then an excentric rich guy funding some magazine that never makes a profit. Their money their right to waste it.

Frankly if the demo is half as good as it sounds then just release the damn game already. Either the demo is as fake as the Half-Life 2 E3 demo was OR 3D realms just is stuck because they want their game to be the best at everything and other game companies keep beating them by focusing on only a small section.

3D realms, there is room for more then 1 nice FPS out there. You don't need to be the best to win. Half-Life 2 and Doom 3 both had their missing features and did well. Just release and start work on Duke Nukem "and you thought the previous one took a long a time".

Re:7 years and counting (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11897796)

Like Doom I don't recall being able to walk under things.

No, that was possible in Duke Nukem 3D.

We gonna at least want a bit of story telling ala half-life.

I don't think so. Part of Duke Nukem's appeal is that it's a comedic, stereotypical good guy with a lot of guns blasting the hell out of aliens. I don't think anybody really expects or wants a good storyline.

Frankly if the demo is half as good as it sounds then just release the damn game already.

Did you even read TFA? This is a demo of the physics engine, not a demo of the game.

Re:7 years and counting (1)

Patrik_AKA_RedX (624423) | more than 9 years ago | (#11897893)

Like Doom I don't recall being able to walk under things.


No, that was possible in Duke Nukem 3D.
only on a limited scale: the Build engine allow overlapping areas, but you couldn't see both areas at ones. The only way to make bridges one could walk over and under was with sprites.

Re:7 years and counting (1)

dtfinch (661405) | more than 9 years ago | (#11898706)

1st level, near the back door to the theater, there's a bridge. With a little bit of searching, you'll find a jetpack. Then you can fly circles around the nice 3d bridge.

Re:7 years and counting (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11898925)

With a little bit of searching, you'll find a jetpack. Then you can fly circles around the nice 3d bridge.

Which is done with sprites, as the parent says. Sorry, but it is. If you hover next to it, you'll notice that it's completely flat and paper-thin. That's because it's done with sprites rather than 3D geometry.

Re:7 years and counting (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11897827)

great post, quick spellcheck

excentric rich guy

eccentric

Re:7 years and counting (2, Informative)

identity0 (77976) | more than 9 years ago | (#11897995)

Hmm... I mostly agree with you, but I wanted to correct some stuff. I recalled that I had to choose between buying Duke3D and Quake, so they must have more or less been out about the same time.

Aha, here:

Duke 3D [mobygames.com] : Jan 29, 1996

Quake [mobygames.com] : June 22, 1996

So Quake came out 5 months after Duke, but it's not really accurate to say "ID had done Quake AND quake 2 by the time 3D realms was ready for its next attempt", since Quake had been well in development when Duke came out.

And the Build engine Duke 3D was based on could do floors on top of floors, although some trickery was required. I remember being blown away by things like a submarine and some other things that required 3D that couldn't be done in Doom or its clones. There'a a walkway above part of the level at the end of the first level, for example.

Obligatory Marathon insert (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11898270)

There'a a walkway above part of the level at the end of the first level, for example.
A spiral staircase too, though I don't remember offhand if it just made a U-turn or looped more than once.

Marathon back in 1994 allowed map pieces to be "stacked" on each other, though rooms themselves were more or less topologically flat with floors raised and ceilings dropped. One map (I don't recall in which Marathon it was) had a monster spiral staircase that must've looped 5 or 6 times.

The system allowed for this cool thing called 5D space, you could have map pieces at the same "height" laid on each other. For example, a figure-8 shaped map would appear to be just long hallways in the middle instead of an intersection. At least a few network-maps were set up where the corner of a room might have what looks like a simple column, but a player running behind it would literally vanish before the eyes of a casual observer.

Re:Obligatory Marathon insert (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11898501)

Marathon back in 1994 allowed map pieces to be "stacked" on each other, though rooms themselves were more or less topologically flat with floors raised and ceilings dropped.

Interesting... I always thought Dark Forces was the first game to do that, but it sounds like Bungie were there two years earlier.

You can do that in Doom too... (1)

Ayanami Rei (621112) | more than 9 years ago | (#11898820)

...provided you make a very small patch. Basically you need to a) make sure all visibility and collision routines don't take shortcuts to determine what sector you're in vs. what is visible. That is, I don't do the LOS or height collision test unless my sector (according to my sector attribute) is visible from your sector (according to your sector attribute). And that sector attribute updates ONLY occur when crossing two-sided linedefs. The code may already be this way... I haven't checked.

The only thing you need to do is to make any necessary changes to the BSP tree builder (for your level editor) to convince it that overlapping sectors are okay, and to always make them NOT visible to each other. I think it'd even be okay if they auto-partition them into subsectors... so long as the checks operate at that level.

Re:7 years and counting (1)

FroBugg (24957) | more than 9 years ago | (#11899340)

I spent a lot of time building maps for Duke way back when, so I remember the system well.

You could indeed put floors on top of floors, but they had to be laid out in such a way that you couldn't see both at the same time from any one position.

The exception was using sprites instead of actual walls to build bridges in open air.

Re:7 years and counting (5, Insightful)

Quinn (4474) | more than 9 years ago | (#11898496)

Jesus, I wish I could just mod this overrated, but I'll have to respond.

IIRC, Duke came out at approximately the same time as Quake. Its interactivity and humor (juvenile though it was) are unparalleled in any game since.

I remember walking over dead guys and leaving bloody footprints, flushing a toilet which overflowed and left watery footprints, seeing myself in a mirror, tossing remote-detonated bombs and blasting them from a block away, shrinking my opponents and stepping on them.

There's a lot of hype about the wonderful immerson of Half Life's story, but what happened in HL2? Awesome atmosphere, but where's the story? It had a plot like a movie tie-in theme park ride.

Duke innovated, and if there is even some tiny vestige of its original spirit left in the company, with today's technology, it will be a favorite of the next generation of gamers, as it was with my generation.

Re:7 years and counting (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11898513)

Odd because at the same time the game System Shock did have a full 3D world although still using 2D sprites for characters.

No it didn't... "System Shock" was not only a 2D world, just like "Doom" etc., it was even less accomplished (the maps were tile-based, so everything was laid out on a grid with only 45-degree corners).

"System Shock" faked true 3D in the same way as games like "Dark Forces": it had 3D objects which could be placed in the world and which you could stand on. Heck, even the souped-up-Wolf3D engine used in "Rise of the Triad" could do that trick. System Shock just did it more convincingly.

(It's still one of the greatest games of all time. Just not true 3D. "Descent" was the first true 3D game I know of.)

Re:7 years and counting (1)

Metal_Demon (694989) | more than 9 years ago | (#11898836)

ID made it big with wolvenstein but really got well known for Doom. Even big enough to have talks of making a movie out of it and that is pretty big for a vid game.

Just for the record they are no longer talks of a doom movie it has already been made and stars the Rock.

Re:7 years and counting (1)

TiredGamer (564844) | more than 9 years ago | (#11904435)

You've got it right except confusing Karl Urban with The Rock [imdb.com] .

Re:7 years and counting (1)

Happy Monkey (183927) | more than 9 years ago | (#11905716)

The Rock is below the fold as "Sarge" if you click "more" at the bottom of the cast list. The confusion may have arisen when The Rock implied on the Daily Show that he was the star.

Re:7 years and counting (1)

ConnectInterrupt (732823) | more than 9 years ago | (#11904948)

Duke Nukem already existed as a platformer but after the success of doom it also went 3D. Or rather 2.5D if I remember correctly. Like Doom I don't recall being able to walk under things. Meaning the floor plan was essentially 1 story with differences in heights. Odd because at the same time the game System Shock did have a full 3D world although still using 2D sprites for characters.

If I recall correctly, Ultima Underworld (which formed the basis of the system shock engine) was full 3d with sprites as well, and was released about a year before Doom was.

Re:7 years and counting (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11963333)

And Wolf3D was released before Doom, although I'm not sure if Ultima Underworld beat it (it would have been close). Ultima Underworld really inspired a lot of RPGs (e.g. Betrayal at Krondor, Morrowind) while Wolf3D was the first FPS.

By the way, the original post by SmallFurryCreature is absolute tripe. It's like he hadn't used a PC before 1998. He has no idea about the chronology of events.

Re:7 years and counting (1)

XnR'rn (793753) | more than 9 years ago | (#11977625)

Im sorry, but it was Tribes, that added huge outdoors world. :) Not to mention vehicles. Although iirc, Tribes or even Tribes 2 vehicles are incomparable to Operation Flashpoint ones, aren't they?
Tanks are more like Silent service's kid brother there, right?

See the demos here. (5, Informative)

elrond1999 (88166) | more than 9 years ago | (#11897763)

Re:See the demos here. (2, Informative)

myspys (204685) | more than 9 years ago | (#11897885)

judging from the filename, it looks like those demos are for version 1.4

according to the article they were demoing version 2 at GDC

One down... (5, Funny)

Frodo Crockett (861942) | more than 9 years ago | (#11897886)

"Hey guys! Physics is done!"
"Alright! What's left?"
"Not much. Just graphics, control, scripting, AI, sound, and multiplayer."

Re:One down... (1)

BigNumber (457893) | more than 9 years ago | (#11899914)

"And if we have any time left over, we should probably come up with some kind of story too."

Physics, lemme guess (1)

Julian Morrison (5575) | more than 9 years ago | (#11897965)

Schrödinger's cat experiment?

Re:Physics, lemme guess (1)

WormholeFiend (674934) | more than 9 years ago | (#11906912)

so if you open the DNF box, it ruins it?

You know (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11898026)

They should hire the stapler guy right now, to monitor the fuel drum -cache in their basement; I'm serious.. -Vapour is less of an embarrasment when it smells of gasoline.. ..People have f**king forgotten about Duke Nukem by this stage, and those who remember it (being 'g(h)a(y)mers', not DN3D fanatics) probably do so due to the crappy 3D side-scroller, which AFAIK was the last official release starring the Duke.

I know how they did it (2, Funny)

Lu Xun (615093) | more than 9 years ago | (#11898293)

They printed out what they had of the source code and dropped it on the floor. Bang.

Re:I know how they did it (1)

s7uar7 (746699) | more than 9 years ago | (#11898517)

Surely it would have been flutter, not bang?

Re:I know how they did it (1)

Dmala (752610) | more than 9 years ago | (#11902008)

No, 3DRealms has been chiseling the code for DNF into stone tablets. That's why it's taking so long.

Re:I know how they did it (1)

Emperor Igor (106953) | more than 9 years ago | (#11903910)

One day they will come down Mount Nukem, ala Moses, and present the Duke commandments. ...but we will be blasphamously worshipping an Unreal Gold god.

Did the Demo run on (1)

Mr.Dippy (613292) | more than 9 years ago | (#11898553)

Did the Duke Nukem Graphic engine demo run on the Phantom Game Console? Why are they still bothering to pretend that they are making that game?

But.. don't they need to redesign it again? (1)

kabocox (199019) | more than 9 years ago | (#11898611)

I thought that they'd have to completely start over to make full use of that hardware physics engine we heard about the other day.

What a pointless article (3, Insightful)

squiggleslash (241428) | more than 9 years ago | (#11898946)

Please, never link to that site again.

The page contained no concrete information, it could have been a rewritten press release for all I could see. The "links" linked not to anything relevent but to ads - for example, the link on Duke's "technology" went straight to an ad for Microsoft LiveMeeting.

This is obviously a click farm, albeit a slightly cleverer one than usual.

So far there's no evidence that DNF is anything but vapourware. An article that talks excitedly about improvements in realism, without showing any evidence, and whose links turn out to be ads, strikes me as about as trustworthy a source as an email entitled "L@@K! FR33 V10XX 1N Y0UR MA1LB0X N0W!!"

Re:What a pointless article (1)

superpulpsicle (533373) | more than 9 years ago | (#11899642)

That's what I am saying too. People are jumping the gun. After all, the game has been in development for 35 years and 700 months.

Re:What a pointless article (1)

generic-man (33649) | more than 9 years ago | (#11900252)

The double-underlined green links are provided by IntelliTXT [vibrantmedia.com] , a sponsored-link service that runs a JavaScript function to replace selected words (such as "technology" or the "San" in "San Francisco") with sponsored links.

Re:What a pointless article (1)

HTH NE1 (675604) | more than 9 years ago | (#11902017)

I'm still trying to come up with a client-side stylesheet that undoes what IntelliTXT and its ilk do.

Re:What a pointless article (1)

(H)elix1 (231155) | more than 9 years ago | (#11902202)

I'm still trying to come up with a client-side stylesheet that undoes what IntelliTXT and its ilk do.

Adblock will get it. Adblock http://*.intellitxt.* and you are golden.

Thanks! (1)

sbszine (633428) | more than 9 years ago | (#11905013)

You have made my adblocking day with this tip.

Why "When It's Done" is a Betrayal (4, Insightful)

superultra (670002) | more than 9 years ago | (#11899241)

I read the blog [typepad.com] of Scott Miller, CEO of 3DRealms, quite frequently. He's a really smart guy. If companies followed the advice he dishes out on his blog, they'd be much better off. He's especially keen on marketing. For example, he has some great ideas on naming games and on avoiding using long titles like Star Wars Dark Forces II Jedi Knight III etc. Very smart stuff.

So why he has so f-ed up the marketing on DNF is beyond me. Frankly, I think he's betrayed the relationship between developer and fan more than nearly any other gaming single company. The problem is not that they've taken so long. If they had never released any information at all about DNF but simply announced the game and released it a year later after a PR blitz, it wouldn't have been a big deal. People might've wondered why it took so long, but they'd probably be too busy playing the game to care.

Instead, Miller and 3dr has arrogantly strung their fans along by surfacing every 2-3 years with a carrot of information or screenshots or an E3 preview. Then, when the enthusiasm level is just enough to maintain a slight knowledge of the game, they dive back into the murky depths of "when it's done."

"When it's done" does not inherently violate the relationship between developer and fan. But as soon as companies like 3drealms start relying on fan enthusiasm and fan network news distribution, they owe more to them than to snub their nose at the fans, say in a British Lord accent, "When it's done," and then walk away backs turned. DNF is a perfect example of this elitism.

There was a sociological study done a few years back that showed that the time people wait for things demonstrates the level in society of the two groups of people. This study was talking specifically about people waiting in doctor's offices or at a government institution. The longer people waited in these offices, the more important the person was they were waiting for - either a doctor or an institution. The longer we sit in a waiting room, the more we need to be in the waiting room. Doctors and buerocrats can get away with that because of their level of importance in society. Simply, we need them more than they need us, and that's why we wait.

But there's a discrepency in this when we apply this same theory to gaming. We don't need a DNF as much as Scott Miller and gang need us. We've been getting along fine without them. And perhaps Miller and 3drealms have enough money that they don't need to work quickly on the game, but if they have other aspirations for DNF - for it to become a benchmark, or just known as a really fun game - they're going to have to drop this elitist "when it's done" attitude and do one of two things: a) shut up about the game and stop releasing any kind of information like this, or b) set a date for the game and stick to it as best as they can.

Some of the more succesfull studios get away with "when it's done," namely id and Blizzard to name a few. This is just the validity of the sociological study; that we actually do "need" a game from id and Blizzard and are willing to wait long enough. Why this works for id and Blizzard and not 3drealms is that the first two companies have never betrayed the trust. While utilizing the fan network and and fan ethusiasm, they have never taken advantage of fans to maintain momentum while they diddle-dally on a game. 3drealms has violated that relationship - time again and time again. Gamers are a very forgiving bunch - throw a great screenshot their way and usually all is forgiven - but I think that DNF has broken a cardinal rule, and "fans" may relegated it to special level of gamer hell.

Re:Why "When It's Done" is a Betrayal (1)

jnik (1733) | more than 9 years ago | (#11899639)

While utilizing the fan network and and fan ethusiasm, they have never taken advantage of fans to maintain momentum while they diddle-dally on a game.

While I agree with much of what you say, don't forget that Valve set a ship date for HL2, missed it dramatically, and then blamed the source code theft, even though that wasn't the problem. I understand how and why it happened, but they were hardly being level with us.

You're right, though: hype needs careful management. Daikatana would have been merely a mediocre game without "Suck it down!" Now it's one of the worst games of all time for many people.

Re:Why "When It's Done" is a Betrayal (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11900224)

Blizzard doesn't betray the trust? Hello, Diablo 2!

Considering How Long... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11899289)

Considering how long this game has been in production, it had better have the most awesome physics engine known to man when it comes out.

It had better be so awesome that on the day when Jesus, Mohammed, Buddha, Zeus, Odin, and Vishnu come down from the sky holding hands, they will organize a huge LAN party and sit around fragging each other in DNF.

The REAL question is... (3, Funny)

bsdbigot (186157) | more than 9 years ago | (#11899306)

Will I need to run an IPX stack to play online?

Okey doke, but... (1)

Cooler1011 (829888) | more than 9 years ago | (#11899873)

Where the hell can I see this video?

Impressive--but fun? (1)

Ahnteis (746045) | more than 9 years ago | (#11901492)

Sounds very impressive. Of course, so did the destructible terrain in Red Faction. So did the physics in Doom3. Problem was, they didn't really contribute much to gameplay.

Whether these cool physics actually make the game better or if they end up simply being another checkpoint on the list of features depends a lot on the game developers.

Now normally, I'd say "We'll just have to wait till it comes out to see" but since this is DNF we're talking about...

Do you know what I noticed in the article? (1)

tod_miller (792541) | more than 9 years ago | (#11904939)

(Since there is no such thing as 'karma-whoring' anymore, I can safely tell you why I am posting these two simple links)

Links:

Meqon - the dudes with the rigid bodies! ;-) [meqon.com]
3D Realms, the home of Duke Nukem FOREVAR! [3drealms.com]

Not one damn link! NOT ONE DAMN LINK. Have they even heard of the world-wide-fucking-web? it is like the www but it has damn links!!

Here are some links for your guys, since the pineapple fuckers who wrote this article didn't have the courtesy to link to the companies they wrote about (I haven't seen a news article without links in it since 1994, and these fuckers have that shit green underline context shit, I hope adblock can shag that to hell once day).

Links:

Meqon - the dudes with the rigid bodies! ;-) [meqon.com]
3D Realms, the home of Duke Nukem FOREVAR! [3drealms.com]

Hope that helps.

Apogee / 3D Realms (1)

tod_miller (792541) | more than 9 years ago | (#11905005)

Worth checking out the links I posted:

3D Realms [3drealms.com]

Front page has a look at rise of the triads, a really really cool game which I forgot how much I missed playing. 10 years old today! (If you are ROTT, remember this?

I also miss Quarantine and DOTT. aaah Quarantine... bliss... remake? yeah!!

ROTT source!!!11 [3drealms.com] I miss gaming on a 486... using '-'-'-'-' to shrink the screen so you would have a decent framerate!!!

Too many physics objects choking online games? (1)

Ret0x (866740) | more than 9 years ago | (#11905173)

Out of curiosity, if you have thousands of objects all having physics calculations being done on them, and all this data being shared by 32+ people playing a deathmatch on a server... wouldnt it all quickly choke the game to unplayability?

Hopefully I'm wrong, destroying your maps could make for really fun deathmatches. Blow out a buildings supports and watch it fall, use high explosive to blast a new entry into someones base, etc.
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