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TiVo to Aim for PC Desktop

CowboyNeal posted more than 9 years ago | from the pee-vee-arr dept.

Television 133

Dave writes "Ars Technica has reported on TiVo's fourth quarter earnings call, and I was interested to see that the company is looking at providing some kind of desktop service for computers." The details are pretty sparse, so it'll be intriguing to see what they've got planned.

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michael (0, Offtopic)

icantbelievebushwon (862939) | more than 9 years ago | (#11906871)

For public distribution (13 Feb 2005):

Anti-slash [anti-slash.org] confirms: Slashdot's editors are dying.

In another devistating blow to slashdot's editors, it was learned that Michael was fired as an editor on slashdot. We at anti-slash are proud to have brought about this partial victory by our unrelenting jihad of bringing their injustices to light.

The specifics of this case are documented in this post: http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=138099&cid=115 70041 [slashdot.org]
Quote:
I got this from a verified source who's in the know:

Long story short, michael was canned for his abusive and egotistical personality.

Rob's been building a list of complaints by users about michael's abusive patterns but he never acted on it. Well, michael managed to bitchslap one of Rob's old college buddies' accounts along with a couple of paid accounts, word eventually filtered down to Rob, and he had kittens. He convinced michael's OSTG manager to track him down and drag him into a conference call.

Rob laid down the law and started reading off complaints and michael raised his voice, saying that if Rob had a personal problem with him that he didn't need to go over his head and involve his manager in it.

During the shouting match, michael's editor flag was revoked. He was in the admin area at the time and he noticed.

At this point he went totally ballistic and started screaming about how this was why he moved, to get away from "arrogant elitist bullshit". (this is a direct quote.. michael actually did move from New York to Canada to protest George W. Bush's inauguration in 2001. Andover kept him on since it was only an all-remote job anyway.)

michael's manager ducked out of the call to page (read: wake up) Hemos (overseas on business) to three-way him into the call, to try and calm everyone down.

There was some more shouting, and michael's manager told him that things aren't working out well, and that he's going to recommend that his employment be terminated.

michael just hung up, and that was the end of the call as well as michael's employment with OSTG.

This can be confirmed by visiting http://slashdot.org/authors.pl [slashdot.org] . Michael is not listed.

Fact: Slashdot's editors are dying

Re:michael (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11906984)

Collary fact: klerck [livejournal.com] is now dead [livejournal.com] .

Re:michael (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11907474)

Fact: You're an idiot dickhead with nothing better to do. Off-topic'd!

fp (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11906874)

fp biotches!

over my dead body (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11906876)

TiVo to Aim for PC Desktop

Not if I aim it out the window first.

Why? (4, Insightful)

EmbeddedJanitor (597831) | more than 9 years ago | (#11906910)

I don't use a TiVo, but my understanding is that you use this machine to record stuff for playback when you have the time to relax. Do you really want to go relax in front of a desktop PC?

Re:Why? (3, Funny)

tmleafsar (866698) | more than 9 years ago | (#11906923)

No different than most people's average day at the office. ;-)

3 Words (3, Insightful)

jimmyCarter (56088) | more than 9 years ago | (#11906995)

Burn to DVD

Re:3 Words (2, Informative)

wo1verin3 (473094) | more than 9 years ago | (#11907371)

You already can, they offer Tivo series 2 users a 15 day trial of Sonic MyDVD. If you want to keep burning the programs to DVD however you do have to buy the program from Sonic.

Re:3 Words (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11907655)

I'm sorry, but analog capture quality from poor cable? It's not even worth the price of the DVD-R it's going to be getting burned onto. Even with a good capture card and all, the picture is WAY sub-par. Analog capturing was cool stuff 5 years ago.

Re:3 Words (1)

boogy nightmare (207669) | more than 9 years ago | (#11908481)

or two words and an acronym

Re:Why? (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11907142)

Do you really want to go relax in front of a desktop PC?
I "relax" in front of a desktop PC 3-4 times a day.

Re:Why? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11908234)

There speaks a man with a pr0n collection.

Re:Why? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11908242)

And admirable stamina.

Re:Why? (3, Funny)

westlake (615356) | more than 9 years ago | (#11907224)

Do you really want to go relax in front of a desktop PC?

So what are you doing here?

Re:Why? (1)

dangitman (862676) | more than 9 years ago | (#11908471)

Hey, nobody said slashdot was relaxing.

Re:Why? (1)

Xoro (201854) | more than 9 years ago | (#11907249)

Real programmers have sixteen fingers.

Count hex using four fingers instead -- it has the advantage of showing you the bitmask as well.

And yes, I relax in front of my desktop PC. I don't even own a tv.

Re:Why? (1)

Ohreally_factor (593551) | more than 9 years ago | (#11907548)

I don't even own a tv.

-- Insert obligatory The Onion reference here. --

Re:Why? (2, Interesting)

kabz (770151) | more than 9 years ago | (#11907279)

Well, one of my boxes, and it's 17" panel are about to migrate to my coffee table.

This setup runs pchdtvr, which spools OTA HDTV so I can record any network shows I want and watch them in glorious 10 MByte sec quality high def whenever I want.

A 17" panel about 4 feet away is not far off the same effect as a 27" TV 8 feet away. And in this case, the picture is wayyyyyy better than cable or satellite, unless you already have high def.

A 200 Gig drive holds about 20 hours which should be plenty for as much TV as I watch. Just think, news, Alias, Lost, Jay Leno, all in high def, whenever you want. Sounds good to me.

I use the PCHDTV [pchdtv.com] 3000 card which absolutely kicks ass once you get the drivers working.

Re:Why? (0)

goneutt (694223) | more than 9 years ago | (#11907595)

My local cable (Cox) offers a DVR with computer hook ups so you can move from the DVR to the computer if you want to keep something. And the DVR isn't crippled like the TiVo, i.e. I can still fast forward through the comercials. The only problem is the DVR/Digital cable box is a $4.95 a month rental. Although I bet a lot of people are also paying that much or more for digitial cable box and Tivo.

My local cable company has basically said "Heres what you want, we won't ask what you use it for" so none of this commercial forcing, and they haven't questioned my 200GB+ per month downloads

Re:Why? (2, Informative)

dreamt (14798) | more than 9 years ago | (#11909140)

crippled like the TiVo, i.e. I can still fast forward through the comercials.

Huh? Who ever said you can't fast forward through commercials with anythign from Tivo? I can easily fast forward (rewind, or whatever) using Tivo, and TivoToGo.

Re:Why? (1)

Robocoastie (777066) | more than 9 years ago | (#11909025)

>>I don't use a TiVo, but my understanding is that you use this machine to record stuff for playback when you have the time to relax. Do you really want to go relax in front of a desktop PC? MSFT thinks you do. Thus the "Media Center PC".

Wait... (2, Funny)

Yeshua (93307) | more than 9 years ago | (#11906877)

Don't desktops generally have something like that available called a spam filter?

Pretty cool! (4, Funny)

Prophetic_Truth (822032) | more than 9 years ago | (#11906880)

So its like a pay BT site?

Re:Pretty cool! (1)

halltk1983 (855209) | more than 9 years ago | (#11906895)

But you but the license? Hmm... the RIAA will have a field day

Tivo the Content Provider? (4, Insightful)

fredistheking (464407) | more than 9 years ago | (#11906881)

This could help them to overcome the big advantage that the cable and satellite companies have going for them.

Re:Tivo the Content Provider? (2, Insightful)

tmleafsar (866698) | more than 9 years ago | (#11907190)

...Cable has an advantage?

They Have The TiVo Name!!!!! (1)

albieomoss (770819) | more than 9 years ago | (#11907254)

Yeah, Dish Network and DirecTV have both offered free DVRs to new customers and a lot of cable companies do it too. This makes it pretty difficult for a company like TiVo to offer a program listing service for $12.95 a month when the Dish and DirecTV DVRs don't require any additional subscription fee. This brings up the argument that TiVo has many patented features that the other DVRs do not, but when you ask the average person what they need out of their DVR they will tell you "I need to record TV and that's it". Maybe if TiVo did a better job at making their product out to be unique they would hold a greater market share. They already have the unique name that is instantly recognizable. I mean 'TiVo' is a damn verb now. I never hear anyone say "Hey man, did you DVR the new episode?". Its usually "Hey man, did you TiVo the new episode?". Just my two cents.

Re:They Have The TiVo Name!!!!! (1)

eln (21727) | more than 9 years ago | (#11907282)

I mean 'TiVo' is a damn verb now. I never hear anyone say "Hey man, did you DVR the new episode?". Its usually "Hey man, did you TiVo the new episode?"

This is called trademark dilution, and it's a very bad thing in the long run. If people see your name as a generic word for doing whatever it is your product does, it accelerates feelings that other products in that category are interchangeable with yours, causing a loss of brand distinction. See also: Xerox, Kleenex, aspirin, cellophane, and elevator, among others.

Not only that (1)

Nik13 (837926) | more than 9 years ago | (#11907678)

No monthly fees for satellite PVRs might be nice, but that's not my thing (and I had to pay 350$ cdn for mine). My sat PVR records shows with no quality loss whatsoever, including 5.1 audio if it's there. Even if Tivo didn't have monthly fees, there's no way I'd trade my sat PVR for a Tivo. Analog captures just don't look good enough (besides that cable here is really poor compared to sat quality in the first place, and sat has a better lineup and better prices).

Re:Not only that (1)

FredThompson (183335) | more than 9 years ago | (#11908013)

South of the shared border, you can use a DirecTV receiver with dual tuners which records the raw signal to hard drive. There are people on your side who use them. The risk, so I'm told, is your cops keep an eye out for the dishes. There are some very nice dish covers but I'm not sure spheres to cover 18" dishes exist.

DTiVos run around $50-$100 each. A USB2 NIC should run around $20 and you can always drop in a large hard drive if you want.

Your PVR records the actual data stream or is there an analog portion? The vast majority of so-called digital systems have an analog portion. It's very rare to find pure digital.

What are they after? (2, Interesting)

Gentlewhisper (759800) | more than 9 years ago | (#11906884)

Currently I own this nice piece of kit.. a Nebular electronics digitv PCI card..

Will TiVo bring (Tivo) to our desktops in the form of a PCI card too? If that's the case, I'm sure many will have case to cream their pants!

Re:What are they after? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11906897)

To prevent those grammar nazis from flaming me..

I meant "have cause to cream .... pants!"

Re:What are they after? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11906944)

That's OK. As it happens I actually own a large brown leather case in which I often cream my pants.

Re:What are they after? (0, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11906950)

>>many will have case to cream their pants!

Wait...TiVo is offering pr0n now???

Re:What are they after? (1)

superpulpsicle (533373) | more than 9 years ago | (#11907017)

When I think PCI tuner cards and software recorder on PC.... there is already Snapstream Media.

so.... (0, Troll)

Vash_066 (816757) | more than 9 years ago | (#11906887)

whats a TV capture card again?

Why would you? (3, Informative)

Manip (656104) | more than 9 years ago | (#11906915)

Tivo costs £10 per month to get guide information... Or you could buy Microsoft Media Centre edition, costs you £89 up front but you get the guide information for free forever plus you can hack it (using any x86 tools).

Re:Why would you? (1)

computerme (655703) | more than 9 years ago | (#11906932)

tivo.

Re:Why would you? (4, Informative)

FredThompson (183335) | more than 9 years ago | (#11906947)

Or...you could use free applications and not buy Microsoft Media Center. Duh!

TiVo's load balancing, season passes, key phrase searches, etc. kick the snot out of anything else. Quite a bit of what makes it so nice is patented.

If you haven't used one, you don't have the experience to know you don't know what you don't know.

Re:Why would you? (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11906997)

Speaking of patents, posted today:

EchoStar shares fall on TiVo suit ruling [businessweek.com]

a federal court denied motions by the nation's second-largest satellite television provider to dismiss patent infringement claims by digital video recording company TiVo Inc. [...]

TiVo has alleged that EchoStar and certain units are violating a key TiVo patent issued in May 2001, known as the "time warp" patent.

I wonder if DirecTV's and Microsoft's partnership with TiVo protects them.

Re:Why would you? (4, Informative)

RzUpAnmsCwrds (262647) | more than 9 years ago | (#11907406)

"If you haven't used one, you don't have the experience to know you don't know what you don't know."

I've used TiVo for over four years now, both standalone and the combo DirecTV/TiVo units.

I can assure you that Microsoft MCE is every bit as good as TiVo. To-do-list, recording history, season passes (with first-run-only options, the same 31-day rule, automatic adjustment to changing schedules, etc.), and most of the other TiVo featureset is present.

The only things I can think of that TiVo has over MCE is:

- WishLists. MCE kind of has them with keyword searching, but TiVo does a much better job.

- Suggestions. I never used them, but only TiVo has them.

But:

- MCE has better conflict resolution. The interface is clearer. The to-do-list shows, at a glance, which shows "lose out" in a conflict.

- MCE is faster. Even the Series 2 units are far too slow. Particularly when you upgrade the disk space. My 300GB MCE box is still quite nippy.

- MCE has a better skip back / skip forward feature. It's far faster, which actually makes it useful - unlike the :30 hack on TiVo.

- MCE handles failure better. If a show is interrupted during recording, MCE will automatically schedule a later showing if it's available and doesn't cause a conflict. This happens even if the recording was one-shot.

- MCE softpads automatically, and unlike TiVo's padding, softpadding doesn't create conflicts.

- MCE's interface is better. You can see the current program in most of the menus, and there is a clearly defined "back" button with unlimited history.

Try MCE out before you go crapping all over it. You may be surprised.

Re:Why would you? (4, Interesting)

FredThompson (183335) | more than 9 years ago | (#11907777)

"MCE has better conflict resolution. The interface is clearer."

Aples and oranges? Clearer...how? There's only so much information which can fit on a TV screen. If you don't like the appearance created by the TiVo, load a custom skin.

"The to-do-list shows, at a glance, which shows "lose out" in a conflict."

Same issue. There's only so much text which will fit on a TV display. Displaying conflicts on a TV very quickly becomes overwhelmingly cumbersome.

If you want to do it via PC, use one of the flavors of DailyMail. DailyMail will let you manually tweak conflict resolution via email. If you want to do mass deletions, reorganize season passes, etc., use TivoWebPlus modules. It would be ludicrous to compare a handheld remote system to a PC interface.

"- MCE is faster. Even the Series 2 units are far too slow. Particularly when you upgrade the disk space. My 300GB MCE box is still quite nippy."

Too slow for what? I have 3 DTiVos, each has 2 160G drives and the only time I see any speed issues are when 2 recordings are being made on a DTiVo, a stream is being extracted across the NIC and I'm trying to do something data9intensive like reorganize season passes. Use TWP to do mass jobs or stream to a PC, no biggie.

"- MCE has a better skip back / skip forward feature. It's far faster, which actually makes it useful - unlike the :30 hack on TiVo."

It takes less than 2 minutes to edit all the ads from a 1-hour recording after extracting to my PC. Any remote control method of skipping around is going to take longer than that.

You know you can push the left or right-facing triangle keys on a TiVo remote more than once, don't you?

"- MCE handles failure better."

Uh...no. MCE runs on Windoze which is far less stable than the Linux running on a TiVo.

" If a show is interrupted during recording, MCE will automatically schedule a later showing if it's available and doesn't cause a conflict. This happens even if the recording was one-shot."

Let's unpack that sentence.

The first part describes a TiVo season pass or wishlist for which you've enbled the options to record more than one showing. That's been in TiVo software from the beginning.

The second part of your statement is impossible in linear time. If a show is on once and your recorder fails, be it MCE, Myth, TiVo, DVDR, VCR, whatever, it is impossible to recover the signal which is no longer available.

"- MCE softpads automatically, and unlike TiVo's padding, softpadding doesn't create conflicts."

Did you really think that as you typed? It is impossible for any tuner to record more than one channel at a time. Padding extends the recording of a channel beyond the match in the schedule data. MCE most certainly is NOT capable of somehow recording multiple channels per tuner concurrently, nor can it record linearly temporal broadcasts in a non-linear manner.

"- MCE's interface is better. You can see the current program in most of the menus,"

Do you mean video overlay? It's not that difficult to inhibit playback of the looping backgrounds on a TiVo. That's been available for more than a year.

" and there is a clearly defined "back" button with unlimited history."

Why would that be useful? At some point, it's more efficient to re-enter from a top-level menu. If you're trying to do something which is inherently awkward with a remote control, use one of the web interfaces.

"Try MCE out before you go crapping all over it. You may be surprised."

I might be pleasantly surprised by a few interface aspects but it's not something I'd chose. The more non-critical functionality packed into what is essentially a timed recorder, the greater the chance that recorder will fail its primary function. TiVos run Linux and are stable unless you're using a primitive hack to disable encryption. Mine have been running for more than a year, in one case 3 years, without reboots except when there were power outages. The only thing which I would find to be a major advantage would be if the TiVos suported wireless keyboards so searching by show name could be done quicker.

Re:Why would you? (2, Interesting)

Kuj0317 (856656) | more than 9 years ago | (#11908094)

MCE is the biggest piece of bloatware. Despite the requirements of having a tv tuner that has hardware encoding, it can still bring an extremely powerful system to its knees. I dont know in what format it holds its program guide data, but however it does, it will kill any system with less than 512 megs of ram. And somehow this is a good piece of software? To top this all off, it will allow you to watch TV on your PC, not something all that revolutionary, or something that other (windows) software doesnt already do better, ie beyondTV. TIVO, on the other hand, is a fully functional PVR, that hooks up to your TV, and will allow you to control the media stream flow comfortably. Its remote is a piece of art, and the system is robust and responsive. The programming guide is easy and intuitive. TIVO rocks. MCE Sucks.

Re:Why would you? (1)

georgi55 (776997) | more than 9 years ago | (#11908506)

You guys are completely cluless. 1. You hook up your PC to TV using TV-out, you dumbass, who said you use PC monitor? That's same thing with TIVO, and MCE still has better interface. Get a clue, get a head, and also you will need brain in it. 2. Extremely Powerful system to it's knees! I must either have the powerful system in the world which is AMD Athlon XP 1700+, nVidia GF4 TI4400 (MX would do) and 512MB PC2100 ram. Whoa, I didn't know my PC was better than "extremely powerful system" that is taken to its knees!

Re:Why would you? (1)

DaBestSpooner (823224) | more than 9 years ago | (#11909349)

the system resource usage on mce are dependent on the video card and tv tuner card being used. I never had more than 12-15% of cpu utilization running media center. I noticed that nobody mentioned the fact that Tivo does not support codecs(real, quicktime, Divx, Xvid, etc). I can watch an HD xvid rip of Lost in full 16x9 720p, dolby 5.1. The closest thing tivo can do is recording a hd stream, and the hd tivo is about 1000USD right now and only certain satellite providers have hd tivos availible. Can tivo upscale dvd, playstation, gamecube games to near hd quality? Dont think so.

Re:Why would you? (1)

inmate (804874) | more than 9 years ago | (#11908401)

If you haven't used one, you don't have the experience to know you don't know what you don't know.

Rumsfeld? Is that You?

Re:Why would you? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11906990)

how important is guide information though??

and whats the difference between the capabilities of TiVo and the current tv capture pci cards???

sorry for the ignorance... no TiVo for Australia

Re:Why would you? (1)

FredThompson (183335) | more than 9 years ago | (#11907957)

"TiVo" really has 2 accurate uses. One is the software which controls recording and playback, the other refers to a dedicated hardware unit running the TiVo software.

You get TiVo-compatible guide information in Australia: http://minnie.tuhs.org/twiki/bin/view

Guide data lets you set search criteria, the hits for which are used for auto-recording. Think of it as automated recording based on your interests. All major PVRs offer automatic recording based on show titles, the simplest form of guide data. TiVo also supports words in the titles or descriptions, genre, actor, director, etc. Most PVRs includes some form of tracking so you can prevent recording of repeat transmissions if you want, force recording of all, or some balance of the two extremes. TiVo has a user rating system where you can specify your interest in particular shows. Over time, this is used to record "suggestions" which might interest you. Paranoid people usually turn it off. I've found its a nice way to make sure there is plenty of storage space (if there are 20 automatic recordings, there's room...) and every few months I'm pleasantly surprised when it finds something of interest. I've been collecting shows about trains for my best friend's son. Two days ago one of the TiVos "automagically" started recording a series about steam trains on a satellite agriculture channel. I'd never known about that station and have no interest but that show is a great find. TiVo has quite a few patents covering the important technologies which make a PVR far more capable than a VCR. They're the major player and have weathered all the wannabes.

TiVo hardware has a dedicated MPEG2 chipset built into the motherboard. PC cards have to operate with more EMP issues and are slaved to the computer stability. TiVos are the size of a VCR, PCs...well...

It IS possible to use a TiVo as a "dumb" digital VCR but that defeats the purpose of a "genie" to record the stuff you want.

TiVos are nice if your interest is in having recordings made securely and reliably. Can that be done with a PC? Sure. However, what are the odds a person would want to do other things with the PC and how does that decrease the reliability of the recording?

People who use TiVos generally want to have the thing work because they're interested in the content. They sell for $50-$100 USD and take standard hard drives. There is a wealth of mode, instructions, and utilities to enhance use. If you want to buy a device and it works from the get-go, flawlessly, get a TiVo or similar device. TiVo has the best interface and the most support. If you want to play around building your own on a PC, for whatever reason, go with something else.

It already exists! (5, Informative)

TanRanger (758834) | more than 9 years ago | (#11906952)

Long time TiVo competitor, ReplayTV, has had a PC interface for some time now by means of an open source JAVA program called DVArchive. With it, user's of LAN enabled ReplayTV's can stream recorded shows onto their PC's. DVArchive can even act as a virtual ReplayTV, serving up shows for all the real ones in the house. If this is what TiVo has planned, it sounds like they are playing catch-up.

Re:It already exists! (1)

RobertBasil (820160) | more than 9 years ago | (#11906975)

And if ReplayTV only had a decent userbase this might mean something. ;)

Re:It already exists! (2, Funny)

TanRanger (758834) | more than 9 years ago | (#11907093)

I assure you, we're all decent!

Re:It already exists! (3, Funny)

dhakbar (783117) | more than 9 years ago | (#11907128)

You can believe him, he knows all five customers!

Re:It already exists! (1)

Joe Tie. (567096) | more than 9 years ago | (#11907825)

Small correction, as far as I know DVArchive isn't open source. I wish it was, because I'm using an older version of it due to incompatibilities with recent versions of java that I'm assuming would be pretty easy to iron out if the source code to the current version was there. It's a fairly small itch though, as all the functionality I need is in 3.0 anyway. Besides that small point, I agree that DVArchive is a pretty great piece of software. In fact, it's one of the reasons I went with ReplayTV over tivo.

Re:It already exists! (1)

FredThompson (183335) | more than 9 years ago | (#11907988)

This has existed in the TiVo realm for quite a long time. The real issue isn't capability, it's legality. Bottom line, ReplayTV violated the law with that software. It's kind of irrlevant, anyhow. All you'd need to do to stream is extract the MPEG2 data and run something like VideoLAN on a PC. It's not a requirement. You could stream from a TiVo to another TiVo if you want. The advantage to streaming from a PC is the reduced system demands on a DVR, regardless of hardware type.

Re:It already exists! (1)

CrankyFool (680025) | more than 9 years ago | (#11908335)

How is it a violation of the law to allow for reasonably limited fair use and personal copying?

I fail to see how "I can record shows using my VCR" is any less legitimate than "I can record shows using my VCR and transfer them to my PC, then delete them from my VCR." timeshifting is timeshifting, no?

Re:It already exists! (2, Informative)

FredThompson (183335) | more than 9 years ago | (#11908948)

The timeshifting personal use provisions of the law don't include networked distribution of content to other people. ReplayTV actively encouraged and provided a means to obtain and distribute content illegaly.

for this to actually work... (2, Interesting)

teksno (838560) | more than 9 years ago | (#11906970)

for this to actually work for Joe "i own a dell" Enduser, it would more then likely have to have a USB interface....and frankly, USB capture cards are way system intensive and typically crap... besides, why would any one who has have a brain just not use myth TV, or even M$ media center edition? unless its jsut a way to interface you curent TIVO box with your pc, like say for archiving shows and keeping the TIVO drive clear.......i have a feeling this may just not work

Re:for this to actually work... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11907208)

why would any one who has have a brain just not use myth TV, or even M$ media center edition?

because they're smart enough to use GB-PVR [gbpvr.com]

How can a computer help me watch TV? (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11906986)

I mean they are great for plowing through a whole bunch of information in powerful ways. But what is there about PVR's that can utilize my desktop/laptop/pda?

I have a TV and a place to watch it(recliner), I have a desk and a computer to do information processing... How can I use these to best advantage?

Re:How can a computer help me watch TV? (2, Interesting)

Billy the Mountain (225541) | more than 9 years ago | (#11907263)

The approach I've used is go to IRC groups that specialize in TV-related bittorents. Grab the shows I want to watch and burn them to CD. I was suprised to find out a while back that my consumer-oriented DVD player hooked up to my TV could recognize CDs. So simply by burning the program in the appropriate format, I could plop it in the DVD player in the living room and watch a fairly decent quality show.

Re:How can a computer help me watch TV? (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11907345)

Here's the real question: why don't people have recliners at their desks?!?

Re:How can a computer help me watch TV? (1)

1u3hr (530656) | more than 9 years ago | (#11908343)

Here's the real question: why don't people have recliners at their desks?!?

Your boss does.

Re:How can a computer help me watch TV? (1)

benjamindees (441808) | more than 9 years ago | (#11907683)

Think 'WebTV' with broadband capability. I don't remember if they got bought by Microsoft, or what, but WebTV dropped the ball on this a couple of years ago and it's still sitting there waiting to be picked up. Frankly, there are still lots of people out there who would use something like this, but don't want to dedicate a portion of their house to a desk/computer setup and/or don't want to pay over $300 total.

How can a computer help me watch [Intercast]? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11907729)

"I have a TV and a place to watch it(recliner), I have a desk and a computer to do information processing... How can I use these to best advantage?"

By using InterCast [webopedia.com] .

Probably (2, Insightful)

Jozer99 (693146) | more than 9 years ago | (#11907003)

Probably just going to be a PC interface that allows you to watch and schedule stuff on a TiVo box on your nextwork. There is too much DRM stuff going on now for them to be able to let you re-encode and copy shows. Also, that nicely competes with Windows XP Media Center, as you could add it onto your machine by simply buying a TiVo, instead of having to buy an OEM MCE machine.

Re:Probably (1)

tgibbs (83782) | more than 9 years ago | (#11907145)

Probably just going to be a PC interface that allows you to watch and schedule stuff on a TiVo box on your nextwork. There is too much DRM stuff going on now for them to be able to let you re-encode and copy shows. Also, that nicely competes with Windows XP Media Center, as you could add it onto your machine by simply buying a TiVo, instead of having to buy an OEM MCE machine.

TiVo has had network scheduling for a long time. And they recently added the ability to copy programs to your PC and (with 3rd party software) burn them to disk.

Re:Probably (2, Informative)

prockcore (543967) | more than 9 years ago | (#11907297)

why is this modded insightful? TiVo already lets you do everything you just mentioned.

In the future, TiVo will let you pause live tv!

Re:Probably (1)

wo1verin3 (473094) | more than 9 years ago | (#11907387)

Haven't you heard of TiVoToGo [tivo.com] . You can already download the recordings to your pc and then burn using Sonic MyDVD 6.1

Could it be, downloadable TV?? (3, Insightful)

jimson (516491) | more than 9 years ago | (#11907013)

All the "thoughts" that I've seen thus far here about what Tivo is up to amount to a TV tuner card. Come on /. Think outside the box a bit. Maybe they're getting into the content delivery game. Downloadable episodes!!

Re:Could it be, downloadable TV?? (2, Interesting)

garcia (6573) | more than 9 years ago | (#11907096)

Why would we promote a middle man with a monthly subscription fee? We already have that in Cable and Sat. TV. We want shows that are cheap, ala carte, and don't require a subscription.

What do I want to see out of Tivo? Nothing. It works the way I expect it to. What would I like to see out of Tivo2Go? No DRM and faster transfer rates. That's not going to happen so blah.

Re:Could it be, downloadable TV?? (2, Interesting)

interiot (50685) | more than 9 years ago | (#11907184)

And what's the probability that TiVo would go the way of mp3.com at that point? The INSTANT that somebody thought about letting people download CDs legally, The Industry jumped all over them, no matter how legal the plan was.

Yes, we have iTunes now. But the important thing is that The Industry needs to prove it has balls. The first one to dare stand up to The Industry MUST be responded to in a powerful way, even if The Industry gives in to the exact same plan 12 months later.

My prediction. (1)

aug24 (38229) | more than 9 years ago | (#11909358)

Made here on /. but I can't be arsed to find it...

TiVo could roll up a Linux distro with all free software, managed images, and (and this is the clever bit) either dial up backups of the contents of /home or a simple 'backup to CD' option for root.

How cool would that be? They have the technology...

J.

Don't think PC, think media PC! (3, Insightful)

Statecraftsman (718862) | more than 9 years ago | (#11907022)

TiVo is smart to be thinking of other revenue sources but I don't think the PC is going to bring them much. I have a TV capture card and the ability to record shows on the computer. It's cool to catch the end of a show or something but it doesn't touch TiVo.

The nice thing they have going for them is that it's hooked into the home entertainment system. You can record and playback all on your couch. When they move to the computer, they lose the oh-so-powerful couch comfort factor and most of their users.

I'd really like to see TiVo go more in the direction of the media pc that everyone wants...the one that hooks into ethernet and plays mp3 and videos off a shared network drive. They've got a great interface for media playback and they'd do really well to extend it's reach beyond broadcast and into your personal media store.

TiVo, forget the PC and extend your foothold in a way that makes sense for your current users!

The ultimate media PC: The PC (1)

Ryeng (805454) | more than 9 years ago | (#11907162)

Well if you could transfer all you dvds and audio cds to you computer, all you really need is a wireless audio/video transmitter and a newer model TV and you should be in business. Of course a good soundcard, not to mention speakers and amplifiers, is preferred for that special surround sound.

Then again if you should attempt any such ting; the music and movie industry will send their goons around and pretty soon they will own you.

*sigh* All I want is all the Simpsons episodes in one playlist, playing continuously, without having to change disc all the time. Or perhaps all episodes ever created of Star Trek in one playlist, looping forever and ever and ever ad infinitum.

Re:Don't think PC, think media PC! (2, Informative)

FredThompson (183335) | more than 9 years ago | (#11908044)

"I'd really like to see TiVo go more in the direction of the media pc that everyone wants...the one that hooks into ethernet and plays mp3 and videos off a shared network drive."

Done, months ago.

http://javahmo.sourceforge.net

Also available, from the hacking community, multi-room viewing, video extraction, DVD creation, RSS readers, video overlay for stocks, sports, news, weather, etc., on-screen caller ID, the list goes on...

Dr Dobbs (4, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11907032)

Dobbs has an article about a Home Media Engine that can be activated in all the Series 2 Tivo's that allow you to build you own applications to run on the Tivo. I, of course, didn't read the article completely yet, but it sounds like they deliver a SDK for you to develop Java applications . You have to buy the mag, but the following is a link to the article.

http://www.ddj.com/articles/2005/0503/

Building on TiVo
Arthur van Hoff, Adam Doppelt
The Home Media Engine lets you build TiVo applications that integrate seamlessly with the familiar TiVo user experience.

Re:Dr Dobbs (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11907236)

The Dr. Dobb's article didn't seem to do it justice. If you want to learn more about HME, go to the HME Sourceforge homepage and try it out. You can also check out most of the early apps at pvrblog.

http://tivohme.sourceforge.net/ [sourceforge.net]

http://hme.pvrblog.com/applications [pvrblog.com]

HME (1)

FirstTimeCaller (521493) | more than 9 years ago | (#11907546)

I suspect that HME plays a big role into the future of TiVo. It's been reported several times on slashdot (motto: if it's worth reporting, it's worth reporting repeatedly). Basically, it provides a way for a remote server to display graphics and stream media to the Tivo (think x-windows).

It's not clear exactly what apps will be compelling -- does Joe User really want to play games, view weather, or get RSS feeds on their TiVo? As currently released, HME does allow interaction with the recording/playback internals, but they promise that they will expose an interface (eventually). Once they do, then we may see some more interesting options.

So what does TiVo plan to do with this? Well, think cell phone carrier. When people download ring-tones or games to their phones, the carrier takes its cut. I can see TiVo acting as the sales/delivery agent for TiVo applets (tapplets?). This could generate a fair amount of income. (Ring tones are a $4 billion business for crying out loud!).

One problem, however, is that TiVo's don't do networking out of the box. You need to plug in a USB network adapter (wired or wireless) and configure the box accordingly. TiVo makes it fairly simple, but this really needs to be enabled out of the box (Series 3?).

Now if I just knew what the killer app for TiVo is going to be...

Just as (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11907041)

Apple is Aiming for Tivo

Linux desktops perhaps? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11907060)

I know that the Linux desktop market is small, but Tivo is already Linux-based. I assume that the entire Tivo system is just some libraries and applications that run on a plain old Linux kernel. Maybe they will release desktop Linux Tivo? Ok, probably not. They would have to have support staff trained on it, support for all the different distro variations, etc, which would make it not worth it.

Who needs it? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11907097)

I've already got a Radeon All-in-Wonder 8500 video card hooked directly up to cable. . . I record all the shows I want! Granted, I have to remove commercials manually if I want the gone before I burn something to DVD, but I don't mind. It only takes a minute or two... less time than it would have taken to watch the commercials anyway.

Lniux/Windows users wll always genuflect to x86 (0, Troll)

Ignatius Loyola (866741) | more than 9 years ago | (#11907154)

It doesn't matter what happens, Linux and Windows users will remain loyal to the x86 platform so they can continue to leverage their "investments" in commodity boxes they built for $500 back in 1998. Never mind that the Mac Mini offers a secure and more elegant solution than neither Linux or Windows will *ever* offer. No matter that it consumes 1/10 the power of a typical PC. I know, I know... you want the most CPU bang from you buck and only a 500 Gigahertz Ultra Pentium IV will do. Otherwise Firefox will take 20 seconds to launch. And anyway you don't care about "userspace" or GUIs anyway and just toggle between virtual consoles. The dirty little secret of the GNU/Linux world is that every sanctimonious open source user boots into a pirated copy of MS Windows whenever they want ot watch the new Star Wars trailer and have failed to configure their soundcard under Slackware for the umpteenth time.

Re:Lniux/Windows users wll always genuflect to x86 (1)

waferhead (557795) | more than 9 years ago | (#11907326)

I Know... Feeding the troll anyway.

Why do we "worship" X86?

Because I can run down to Frys and for ~the price of a cute little mini-me-too, I can build a 2.5 Ghz 64 bit box/120G HD/512M ram/Wide choice of video cards that could actually push HD video to my TV, and run MythTV.

When I can do that with PPC hardware, let us know.

The Mini-me never will push HDTV, in its current incarnation. The primary MythTV author IS buying one to finish the port though... And they ARE cool.

OK, it won't have OSX, or the nice apps that come with it. I'd probably get pissed at something and install the PPC port of Mandrake on it in less that 48 hours anyway.

Re:Lniux/Windows users wll always genuflect to x86 (1)

pammon (831694) | more than 9 years ago | (#11908191)

>Because I can run down to Frys and for ~the price of a cute
> little mini-me-too, I can build a 2.5 Ghz 64 bit box/
> 120G HD/512M ram/

I call bull. A 2.5 GHz Athlon 64 processor alone costs about what a Mac Mini costs, let alone all the other stuff.

> Wide choice of video cards that could
> actually push HD video to my TV, and run MythTV.

The high end Mac Mini can do 720p HD TV. See http://www.osxhax.com/archives/000063.html [osxhax.com]

It's gonna be tough! (1, Informative)

Billy the Mountain (225541) | more than 9 years ago | (#11907226)

So Tivo wants to start competing with KnoppMyth [mysettopbox.tv] ? Trouble is, KnoppMyth is free! Also, I don't know about Tivo, but Myth also allows you to record two shows at once if you have multiple tuner cards in your computer.

BTM

Re:It's gonna be tough! (4, Insightful)

s.o.terica (155591) | more than 9 years ago | (#11907502)

1) DirecTV boxes with TiVo have supported recording two channels at once for several years. The new HD DirecTiVo actually has four tuners -- two HD DirecTV and two OTA HD. It can even record two shows while watching a third show live. So the issue of recording two shows is not an architectural one, rather just a limitation of the current hardware.

2) Most people who don't have DirecTV (or competing Dish Network) and have interest in DVRs also have cable, and more and more of the channels available on cable are available only as digital channels, which means it does you absolutely no good to have two tuners built-into your KnoppMyth box (or your Media Center PC, etc.) if you want to record anything on a digital cable channel. TiVo knows this, and understands that even if it were possible for the connected IR blaster to distinguish between two digital cable boxes, it would be out of the question to ask an average consumer to set up a system with two separate cable boxes connected to the same DVR, controlled with different IR blasters.

3) TiVo has said repeatedly that they will support multiple channel recording for cable once the cable industry stops dragging its feet and releases two-way CableCard, which will work to allow TiVo to decrypt the digital signals, therefore eliminating the huge hassle of the separate cable box (just like they did with the hassle of a separate DirecTV box). But unfortunately the cable companies have a conflict of interest in wanting to be able to lock consumers into their crappy DVR boxes for as long as possible, so they're more than happy to fight CableCard as long as they can.

Conclusion? It's really not TiVo's fault that you can't record more than one channel at once if you have cable. If you are upset at the vertical monopoly the cable companies are creating with this behavior, contact them and your federal lawmakers.

They are already providong... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11907237)

They are already providing "desktop service", which is TiVo To Go and, despite having been talked about for for several years, it sucks so bad, it is not even funny. All it does after all the hype, is allow you to download shows to your PC. It only supports 802.11b wireless, so it takes longer to download, than to actually watch a show. No ability to erase downloaded shows from a PC, no streaming, no upload to tivo, no acess to shceduling -- nothing. Just a simple HTTP download.

More so, it is all surrounded by their stupid DRM crap that does nothing to prevent copying, but makes it impossible to use on anything but Windows.

I sure hope TiVo gets squashed real soon. They deserve it.

Re:They are already providong... (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11907295)

Just like you deserve a swift kick in the arse.

Removing drm (1)

grahamsz (150076) | more than 9 years ago | (#11907761)

It's trivially easy to remove the tivo drm and playback on linux. I'm sure a nicely packaged utility will come out for doing it soon.

Re:Removing drm (2, Informative)

FredThompson (183335) | more than 9 years ago | (#11908059)

You wish came true weeks ago.

already there (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11907290)

The service for transferring shows from the Tivo Series 2 to PC already exists. I have it. You can transfer & watch Tivo recordings on your PC as long as you have the password/code for your Tivo.

TiVo should be a hardware provider. (2, Interesting)

BiggRanger (787488) | more than 9 years ago | (#11907302)

The best thing TiVo could do is saturate the market with their hardware, TiVo boxes, TiVo PC cards... And then open source all the software, broadcasting to the public the software is open source, can be modified, and do what you want with. They can still sell their subscription service for scheduling, because most people will not tweak their boxes. This will take content/media management responsibilities and legalities away from TiVo allowing the user to determine how and what to do with the media.

but, but, but, myth tv (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11907342)

hahaha myth tv sucks.

If more content provider were doing this... (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11907478)

Air Farce Productions, Inc. is making all their recent Royal Canadian Air Farce shows available for download on their website [airfarce.com] . It's remarkable that they are doing this because they are selling DVD of the show as well. And for those wondering, these are not DRM protected files. (Don't miss the episodes where they shoot Bush with the chicken canon [Episode 11-NYE]!) If more producers where doing this, this would end the all the piracy of TV shows on the net. And I would not mind if they left the commercials in their downloadable version.

The most logical service...Ultimate Share-A-Show. (4, Interesting)

Alpha_Traveller (685367) | more than 9 years ago | (#11907742)

The most logical service at this point in terms of what to add, that would be a leapfrog over just about everyone, would definitely be a distribution service based on something TIVO's already mentioned with the outside world.

Share-a-show Technology.

Basically under the concept of 'networking' and community. It's already been established that with Tivo-To-Go, it's expected you'll share shows with your family and friends.

NOW -- Take that a step farther. Suppose I get 50 people who all like Trek. Each person can share a particular trek episode with 6 people. So, you decide how many of the six 'burned' copies of Trek Episode 5 you're going to want to distribute among those 50 people who watch trek. If 9 people out of that 50 want to share, you've got more than enough copies of trek to go around. How do we get our very own copy to view? Well gee, I connect my tivo to the trek community. What do I get back? A list of every single Trek episode I can now download.

This beats HBO on demand when you don't have HBO. Of course it might be restricted by what you're subscribed to via your cable/satellite company but you'd basically be able to download off broadband your favorite shows. Things your single tivo just couldn't get because you could only tape one or two things at a time. Your favorite shows, any show on demand just so long as their Tivo (or computer) was online, was on broadband and had some distribution tokens left.

ep!! (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11908152)

what proviDes the to foster a gay and

Down with TV (1)

[cx] (181186) | more than 9 years ago | (#11908416)

I think everything should be routed through my pc that is digital. Down with these so called television units, they are oldschool. Let us have all the power through our PC so we may control it and possess all media simultaneously and back it up for later generations.

[cx]

Please fix Tivo software v7.1 (0, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11909102)

All I want from Tivo is for them to fix the recent software upgrade that they sent everyone that had a series 2 box. The pro is that it gives you Tivo-to-go. The con, and in this case the con is much bigger than the pro, is that now when you're browsing menus and selecting items its *extremely* slow. This results in you sometimes making the wrong selection when you're trying to do something.

Details... (1)

Anita Coney (648748) | more than 9 years ago | (#11909324)

What TIVO should do is sell a PCI TV card. It should come with an external USB Cablecard/Smartcard reader so we can get HDTV broadcasts. And they should do it fast before the Flags shut down the fun!
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