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Apple Backs Blu-ray

Hemos posted more than 9 years ago | from the beta-vs-vhs dept.

Desktops (Apple) 491

zaxios writes "The New York Times is reporting that Apple has joined the Blu-ray Disc Association, and will use Blu-ray in upcoming versions of iMovie and Final Cut. The move puts Apple among Sony, Matsushita, Dell, HP and Walt Disney in supporting Blu-ray; companies including Toshiba, NEC, Warner Brothers, New Line Cinema, Universal and Paramount are pledged to adopt the competing HD-DVD format. Apple's support confirms Blu-ray's future dominance on the desktop, but the division in Hollywood and notebook manufacturers between the two HD videodiscs will ensure the bona fide format war we were all secretly pining for."

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491 comments

Fri, 1st April is TROLL REUNITING DAY (0, Offtopic)

The_Fire_Horse (552422) | more than 9 years ago | (#11909566)

Mark your Calendar folks - all slashdot trolls, old and new, will be out posting their abusive, and ever so slightly amusing posts on this day.

That, combined with the ususal shit that prevails on this day of the year, should make for a chaotic day of slashdot browsing; so stock up on Cheezals and drag those old troll accounts out of retirement for this monumental day of historic nostalga.
Any idea's for themes (apart from the classic 'FIRST POST' - which, I might add gets funnier each time I see it)

In Soviet Russia... (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11909567)

Blu-ray backs you!

um? (4, Insightful)

mmkkbb (816035) | more than 9 years ago | (#11909579)

Apple's support confirms Blu-ray's future dominance on the desktop

Against the MS behemoth supporting HDDVD? Why exactly?

And mow for something completely different, who pays this site [dvdsite.org]'s bills?

Re:um? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11909616)

"Why exactly?"

Presumably for the same reason that no digital audio out means that Apple intend for Mac Mini to be a future home cinema device...

In other words; because some idiot gibbered it out without actually thinking :)

Re:um? (4, Insightful)

necrodeep (96704) | more than 9 years ago | (#11909636)

Actually, I don't see Microsoft choosing sides mattering that much. It's the hardware manufacturers that are going to decide this one. Microsoft will provide drivers and support to whatever devices are dominant in the market. I fear it's really going to heat up into another Betamax type war.

However - I would not rule out future devices that would support both standards, if they both gain good marketshare.

Re:um? (2, Insightful)

MtViewGuy (197597) | more than 9 years ago | (#11909728)

Actually, I don't see Microsoft choosing sides mattering that much.

I think now that Apple is supporting Blu-Ray, don't be surprised that Microsoft ends up supporting this format, too. The reasons are simple: MS wants interoperability with high-definition DVD discs created with a non-Microsoft OS, and I think Microsoft likes the higher recordable storage capacity of Blu-Ray discs, too.

Apple fanboi alert (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11909867)

"YAAAY!! Yayyyyy Apple!! Go APPLE!! YESSSSSS!

..... um, what's blu-ray?"

Indeed (2, Informative)

goldcd (587052) | more than 9 years ago | (#11909640)

http://search.microsoft.com/search/results.aspx?st =b&na=88&View=en-us&qu=bluray results = 0

It doesn't matter (1, Interesting)

will-el (78139) | more than 9 years ago | (#11909857)

> Apple has joined the Blu-ray Disc Association

Blue-ray will fail because the disks won't play in the current installed base of DVD players. People
now have DVD players in their living rooms, SUVs, cars, laptops, desktops, bedrooms, kitchens, vacation homes-- do you
really want to explain to your kid that the new Spiderman3 Blue-ray disk they bought won't play in the minivan?

HD-DVD multilayer disks can be made completely backwards compatible- HD on new layers for the home theater in the basement, conventional resolution on other layers for the car. Stores will only have to stock one disk. This will decide it.

Fortunately MS is a champion of flip-flopping (1)

goldcd (587052) | more than 9 years ago | (#11909661)

in whatever direction the wind happens to be blowing. BluRay is the better format without doubt and the longer this drags on the more obvious the difference between the formats will become.
We can expect and MS back BluRay with their new WMV codec any day soon.

Apple as an indicator of future dominance. (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11909692)

Shall we review some of the technology apple backed before it got big on the desktop?

Apple's decision to ship USB on the iMac marked the start of USB as a consumer interface.

Ditto for firewire, floppy-less machines.

And what's MS gonna do with HD-DVD? Ship computers with it? Disable Blu-Ray drives? E-THIS-FORMAT-SUCKS: ?

Re:um? (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11909699)

They will both do well. They were made to create the appearance of a healthy marketplace with competing products. But as we all know they both use the exact same video encoding scheme and DRM system. In the end, if one manufacture is able to make their implementation of DRM slightly weaker (but still acceptable to the content cartels) and this impl. is broken first it stands the best chance of becoming the winner in this pseudo competition.

Re:um? (1)

cfrey (821922) | more than 9 years ago | (#11909712)

MS isn't specifically supporting HD-DVD or Blu-ray. Of course MS doesn't make movies and the only hardware they make that would be relevent is the xbox. The new Xbox 360 is rumored to have only plain old DVD support as opposed to the next Sony Playstation which will have Blu-ray.

Not really... (-1, Flamebait)

theycallmerenda (765018) | more than 9 years ago | (#11909581)

Apple's support confirms Blu-ray's future dominance on the desktop

Well, not really, seeing Apple's tiny market share...

Re:Not really... (3, Insightful)

tabkey12 (851759) | more than 9 years ago | (#11909601)

Almost every media standard Apple had backed early has succeeded overall in the market. Ones that Apple snubbed (or where it has been snubbed e.g. MPEG4) have had real problems getting established, and have mostly failed.

Just look at the history!

Re:Not really... (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11909650)

Correlation does not indicate causation. It could merely be the fact that Apple made the technically sound decisions, being the savvy players in the media market they are, or that they were simply lucky.

And that is why... (1)

tarmithius (819361) | more than 9 years ago | (#11909667)

Firewire never gained more of the market share over USB, and that is why all DVDs use MPEG4.

History fails you.

Re:And that is why... (3, Insightful)

Dot.Com.CEO (624226) | more than 9 years ago | (#11909729)

I might remind you that the iMac was the first PC to come with USB, and not only that, but they used a USB keyboard and mouse. It came with firewire of course, but that is because Apple, 10-some years ago realised something that you have yet to realise: Firewire and USB have different purposes. It's like saying the Parallel port had failed because hardly any modems that worked on it were made.

Re:And that is why... (1)

Eccles (932) | more than 9 years ago | (#11909872)

I might remind you that the iMac was the first PC to come with USB

You might try to remind me of that, but it's incorrect. I still have a Toshiba Infinia with USB ports that predates the earliest iMacs.

Apple's USB support was better than the general Windows support for a while, and the Mac platform in general provided a better USB experience for quite a while. But they weren't first.

Apple, 10-some years ago realised something that you have yet to realise: Firewire and USB have different purposes.

The iMac was first released in May, 1988. That would be less than seven years ago. PowerMacs didn't get Firewire and USB until 1999.

Re:And that is why... (1)

PriceIke (751512) | more than 9 years ago | (#11909905)

I seem to remember USB already being established in the PC universe when the iMac first came out. As I recall, Jobs incorporated USB because he wanted all the same cool devices available for the PC to also be usable on the Mac (with the suitable application of proper drivers, which cost little to produce). I could be wrong, but that is how I remember it.

I do know that Macs were the first computers to ship with FIrewire, as this was a technology developed by Apple.

Re:And that is why... (1)

Cyn (50070) | more than 9 years ago | (#11909816)

Apple itself even used USB keyboards/mice from the start. I don't know about you, but all of my desktops have firewire in addition to USB2, and I'd prefer to use firewire for anything that actually needs the speed.

Try looking at anyone working with video or external hard drives - you'll find a huge preference for this 'seemingly dead' firewire. It's not dead, it's just not used for chump activities like keyboards and mice. You may be surprised to learn that basically all desktops invariably have an external keyboard and a pointer device installed.

The two products were never competing, and manufacturers didn't pick firewire up initially because your average end user just didn't need it. usb2 came out to prevent firewire from taking over, when you really look at it.

Speeds:
USB: low/full speed [?/12]
USB2: high speed [480]
Firewire (1394) [400]
Firewire (1394b) [800]

So let's see - USB2 barely surpassed firewires initial speed, and came out when firewire 800 was popular. A quick sampling of my devices at home proved that the only device I owned that was actually USB2 was my Apple Ipod - a USB keychain that I got this past Christmas was still only USB 1.1.

But I digress, USB does indeed have more peripheral marketshare than Firewire - due to keyboards, mice, webcams, and the sheer 'early adoptance' in the pc market.

Re:Not really... (1)

rxmd (205533) | more than 9 years ago | (#11909689)

Almost every media standard Apple had backed early has succeeded overall in the market. Ones that Apple snubbed (or where it has been snubbed e.g. MPEG4) have had real problems getting established, and have mostly failed.
Ah, that probably explains why IDE hard drives are much more ubiquitous on the desktop nowadays than the SCSI drives used by Apple. Or why RS232 became the standard serial port, as opposed to RS485. Or why every movie in the world is encoded in QuickTime now.

Re:Not really... (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11909787)

You're still using RS485!? You poor primate. This is the 21st Century, and we are all using USB, a standard which became popular when it was adopted by... wait for it.... .... ... Apple!

MOD PARENT DOWN- WRONG WRONG INFORMATION (0, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11909805)

Jesus, how stupid can you mods be!! Or how fucking pro-apple. The parent statement is WRONG!

Read the other responses to the post, the parent is clearly mac propaganda.

MOD PARENT DOWN- WRONG WRONG INFORMATION (0, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11909822)

One more time...geesh, slashdot has such fucking mac fanboys. You idiots would probably be pro Mac toilet paper too...

Re:Not really... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11909698)

Ever been to Hollywood? They don't even know what Windows is, everyone "in the biz" so to say is far more likely to be carrying around an iBook and working on a G5 than anything else. Apple supporting Blu-ray is HUGE news in that respect.

HD-DVD will win out (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11909583)

I really think the HD-DVD will win simply becuase of the name.

Consumer: You mean this is a H D DVD. Wow I have been hearing so much about how good HD is so I want one.

Dont laugh VHS rolled of tounge better than Beta Max. One has to wonder what marketing genus wanted to call their product beta anyway

Re:HD-DVD will win out (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11909603)

Yeah I'm sure the name had everything to do with Beta Max's demise.

Re:HD-DVD will win out (3, Insightful)

UES (655257) | more than 9 years ago | (#11909723)

VHS won out over Beta for one simple reason: time.

Beta tape was higher quality, with a crisper picture. Video professionals STILL use Beta. Objectively, it is a better tape format.

But at the time (late 1970's- early 1980's), Beta tapes could barely hold a full-length feature film. They crapped out at a little under 2 hours. Not so good for home taping.

VHS, on the other hand, had SIX hour tapes. They could easily hold an entire sporting event, several TV episodes, and a film, all on one tape.

Home Taping sold home Videotape recorders, and customers chose the cheaper, more plentiful recording medium. "VHS" is meaningless letters, but customers easily understand "three times the recording time on the same size tape".

Re:HD-DVD will win out (1)

Ucklak (755284) | more than 9 years ago | (#11909846)

It wasn't just that, it was marketing as well.

Nobody who is Joe Sixpack understands that L-750 means it's a 4 1/2 hour tape but they do understand a 6 hour VHS tape.

And for the Beta players, your player had to be Beta 1, Beta 2, and Beta 3 compatabile

Re:HD-DVD will win out (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11909847)

Betamax != Betacam (Betacam is used by professionals; Betamax is dead)

--- Original Message ---

VHS won out over Beta for one simple reason: time.

Beta tape was higher quality, with a crisper picture. Video professionals STILL use Beta. Objectively, it is a better tape format.

But at the time (late 1970's- early 1980's), Beta tapes could barely hold a full-length feature film. They crapped out at a little under 2 hours. Not so good for home taping.

VHS, on the other hand, had SIX hour tapes. They could easily hold an entire sporting event, several TV episodes, and a film, all on one tape.

Home Taping sold home Videotape recorders, and customers chose the cheaper, more plentiful recording medium. "VHS" is meaningless letters, but customers easily understand "three times the recording time on the same size tape".

Re:HD-DVD will win out (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11909740)

And I want to know how many average consumers even know what the term beta means.

Re:HD-DVD will win out (5, Funny)

dsginter (104154) | more than 9 years ago | (#11909768)

I really think the HD-DVD will win simply becuase of the name.

But you haven't seen the logo for BluRay yet. It's going to be a shark with a freakin' blue laser mounted on its head. In its teeth will be an HD-DVD.

This will scare consumers into thinking that they could possibly be attacked if they were to buy an HD-DVD.

Re:HD-DVD will win out (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11909835)

Yeah, that's really informative.

Why betamax (1)

wiredog (43288) | more than 9 years ago | (#11909791)

IIRC, betamax was a consumer version of the "beta" tape used by professionals at the time.

Two reasons beta lost out to vhs, despite higher quality: Sony was restrictive in its patent licensing, and the tape couldn't record more than 2 hours.

Re:HD-DVD will win out (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11909800)

One has to wonder what marketing genus wanted to call their product beta anyway.

I either wouldn't want to be called an alpha male!

Oh wait ...

Dell (-1, Redundant)

cyberfunk2 (656339) | more than 9 years ago | (#11909585)

How long til Dell suddenly decides to back Blu-Ray, too ?

Re:Dell (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11909628)

Dell already backs Blu-Ray. As does Sony.

Re:Dell (0)

BackInIraq (862952) | more than 9 years ago | (#11909649)

Um...I'll admit I didn't read the article, but doesn't the post say that Dell already has?

That said, I'd say that Apple's support of Blu-ray doesn't do all the much to confirm it's dominance on the desktop...I'd say Dell's support is much more important there. And Disney's support is probably worth more that the rest of them combined. Maybe not in the computer arena, but then again with people now expecting their computers to use the same media as their other AV equipment, maybe it does.

Re:Dell (2, Insightful)

johnpaul191 (240105) | more than 9 years ago | (#11909873)

how many people out there have HDTVs right now? then think that most home users are not using HD cameras. even if everyone had these drives in their hardware tomorrow, it will take some time for HD cameras to trickle down to home users. odds are it will be higher end projects that set the pace for this. that kind of work is more likely to be done on an Apple then a Dell valu-boxen.

at some point what the masses buy will be important for burning discs, but i guess for now it is an issue what formats laptops will be able to play? if Apple, Dell etc etc sell laptops that can only play BlueRay discs and not HDDVD it might matter? if i could pick up both formats in the store, i would obviously buy the one i will be able to watch on a laptop.

IBM (4, Interesting)

static0verdrive (776495) | more than 9 years ago | (#11909589)

Now if IBM could jump on the Blu-Ray bandwagon we'd be set!! We (the OSS croud, linux personally) would see a lot more support with HP, Apple plus IBM's support...

Re:IBM (1)

theparanoidcynic (705438) | more than 9 years ago | (#11909719)

Given that we might get some kind of closed-source decoder library. With the DMCA and the studios the world will end before they give us anything freedom-free. A black box for a few arcitectures is the best we can practically hope for.

(Not to say somebody isn't gonna hack it and release a freedom-free version. I fully expect that to happen inside the first year.)

The invisible elephant (5, Interesting)

daveschroeder (516195) | more than 9 years ago | (#11909591)

Forget about Sony, HP, Matsushita, Apple, Dell, and Disney...

The porn industry, which releases 11,000 titles a year, will likely silently decide which format "wins" (previous slashdot coverage [slashdot.org]).

And some of the bigger porn houses are coming down on the side of Blu-ray because of its capacity advantage over HD-DVD. That the porn industry would have such an influence comes as no surprise to those who know just how big [familysafemedia.com] the industry really is [pbs.org].

Porn industry is dropping the ball, so to speak (-1, Offtopic)

Quiet_Desperation (858215) | more than 9 years ago | (#11909685)

They should be focusing on sexbots. Which format will win? RealDoll or Superbabe2000? Admittedly both formats are still rudimentary, and lack certain features, such as actual robotics, but things are progressing.

Re:The invisible elephant (5, Insightful)

SoupIsGood Food (1179) | more than 9 years ago | (#11909730)

This is entiurely true, and they will quietly go with whatever is the least expensive and time-consuming. Now they can burn a Blue-Ray master with the tools they've been using all along - Final Cut Pro and DVD Studio Pro. The Mac has an enormous presence in the videography field, and not needing to buy or train on special software, apart from the usual upgrade to the tools they're already using.

So, whether Hollywood likes it or not, Apple's just won the fight for Blue Ray... unless they get tricky, and simultaneously support HD-TV as well, which isn't beyond the realm of possibility.

SoupIsGood Food

Re:The invisible elephant (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11909752)

And some of the bigger porn houses are coming down on the side of Blu-ray

Say no more...

Re:The invisible elephant (5, Insightful)

Space Coyote (413320) | more than 9 years ago | (#11909775)

The trouble with High-definition porn is that you actually get to see what 10+ years of over-work does to a someone's body. Not a pretty sight. I can't see this being good for the porn industry.

Re:The invisible elephant (1)

varmittang (849469) | more than 9 years ago | (#11909817)

Yeah, and I believe that they have already expressed that HD would not be very good for porn. But they will be able to have more content, wether that be interviews with the ladies or advertisements for other titles. Other than that, they can up the quality of the video a little bit without going to HD so that they can keep those 10+ years from completely showing though.

Re:The invisible elephant (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11909874)

Geez you guys are jaded. Not getting any?

For all the wrinkles and ass zits that you are worried about there is a hot 19 year old that would look that much better in high-def/multi-angled glory.

The glass is half full, ya know? :)

Uh no. (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11909879)

Dude,

Chicks get into porn when they're about 21, and are out by 24.

Only a few girls stay until they're 30.

And no, please don't feel sorry for them. They will make more in a 3 year career then most of us will make in 20 years.

Watch HBO's Pornucopia for a real eye-opener on the porn industry. If I was a hot chick, I'd do porn in a flash (pardon the pun).

Sony & Blu-Ray (4, Funny)

Lev13than (581686) | more than 9 years ago | (#11909592)

Well, now that Sony's on board we know it's a real standard. This is good news, as I can finally archive my collection of Betamax tapes.

Re:Sony & Blu-Ray (-1, Redundant)

static0verdrive (776495) | more than 9 years ago | (#11909619)

It was Sony's technology!

Re:Sony & Blu-Ray (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11909679)

The parent's point (joke you failed to get!) was that sony have a really CRAP track record when it comes to competing formats, and their winning out...

Playstation is the exception that proves the BetaMax, ATRAC, soon UMD, soon Blu-Ray... rule.

Sony like to think they can set the trend by bucking the trend. MP3 has only now started to make them reconsider...

don't forget the MiniDisc! (3, Insightful)

johnpaul191 (240105) | more than 9 years ago | (#11909731)

look how well Sony got that to take off in the USA

i type this as someone who has a few pieces of MD hardware and actually likes it.... though i think most people that use(d) minidiscs liked them. i never bought pre-recorded music but used it to replace cassettes.

Re:don't forget the MiniDisc! (2, Informative)

madprof (4723) | more than 9 years ago | (#11909848)

When they said ATRAC they meant MiniDisc. ATRAC is the data format used on MD....

Re:Sony & Blu-Ray (1)

zaxios (776027) | more than 9 years ago | (#11909753)

Playstation is the exception that proves the BetaMax, ATRAC, soon UMD, soon Blu-Ray... rule.

How about the CD, which Sony co-developed with Philips? I hear they're relatively popular.

Re:Sony & Blu-Ray (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11909889)

I seem to remember a little thing called the 3 1/2 inch floppy diskette. I bet you think Sony really dropped the ball when they created that train wreck of a format.

About this... (5, Insightful)

Epistax (544591) | more than 9 years ago | (#11909595)

I remember reading specs and what it seemed to me was Blu-ray was simply better from the users point of view. I think it took more work on the manufacturers side and forced them to do a lot of extra work for it to be able to read traditional DVDs, but that shouldn't be as important.

Am I on the ball here or is there really not a complete performance domination by Blu-ray?

Re:About this... (1)

imsabbel (611519) | more than 9 years ago | (#11909702)

Blue ray is better, technically.
The whole reason why the hd-dvd standart was created in the first place was the fact that the manufactures didnt like the fab requirements for the very thin transparent layer of the blue-ray disc, so the inferior hd-dvd spec was created, which allowed for using older equipment from dvd production.

Re:About this... (1)

Clay Pigeon -TPF-VS- (624050) | more than 9 years ago | (#11909795)

Which means more manufacturers will back it, which means it will be cheaper, which means it will have a good chance to win out over blu-ray when consumers vote with their wallets.

the short version...... (1)

johnpaul191 (240105) | more than 9 years ago | (#11909757)

one format is a lot cheaper to make the discs, the other has much larger capacity. that is pretty much what it boils down to. both are good formats, and better than what we have now.

Re:About this... (4, Insightful)

zaxios (776027) | more than 9 years ago | (#11909878)

Yes. Essentially, Blu-ray is better, HD-DVD is cheaper. From Wikipedia:

"One single-layer Blu-ray Disc can hold about 25GB or almost two hours of HDTV audio and video, and the dual-layer disc can hold approximately 50GB."

"HD-DVD has a capacity of 15 GB (for dual-sided HD-DVD, maximum capacity would be 30 GB)... The cover layer is, as in the case of the DVD, 0.6 mm thick (unlike the Blu-ray Disc at 0.1 mm). The numerical aperture of the optical pick-up head is accordingly the same as that of DVD player (0.65 mm). These factors mean that HD-DVD media is less expensive to manufacture than Blu-ray, not requiring the re-tooling of disc production lines (as is needed for Blu-ray discs)."

Re:About this... (1)

necrodeep (96704) | more than 9 years ago | (#11909885)

Essentially I believe that's true from everything I have read too. However I believe the big catch is *COST* production costs of Blu-ray are supposed to be significantly higher (requiring newer techniques and higher-end material). I honestly I think it's about the companies considering the cost/performance aspects vs. return. Whichever one they think they can charge a higher % over cost - is the ones that they will support.

Sure Blu-ray holds more data and is (supposedly) technically better... but I am sure the thinking with many companies is why do that when we don't _need_ the space why spend more money on the creation - when you can charge the same ammount for something that costs less - and will get you greater margins. I believe other companies see the performance of Blu-ray as a needed step - regardless of the increased costs associated.

YOU INSENSITIVE CLOD! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11909621)

clearly. There guest and 8ever get own ag3nda - give BY SIMPLE FUCKING OUTER SPACE THE

shiny plastic (2, Funny)

jgercken (314042) | more than 9 years ago | (#11909631)

It'll be interesting to see what the Apple design team comes up for the external blue ray drives. Wonder what color they'll be...

Sucks to be an early adopter (5, Interesting)

Eradicator2k3 (670371) | more than 9 years ago | (#11909653)

When you consider that DL DVD drives have been out for some time (reasonably priced), yet the media still costs about 10 bucks a pop, can you imagine what the Blu-Ray (or HD) discs will go for? At the risk of dating myself (not like anyone else would, HA), I was an early adopter for the *new* high-density 3.5" floppies at about $80 for a box of 10.

Realistically, once the next-generation drives and discs are out, it will lower the price of DL media into something more affordable.

Re:Sucks to be an early adopter (2, Informative)

nutshell42 (557890) | more than 9 years ago | (#11909706)

The PS3 will use Blu-Ray. That means prices will begin to fall mid-2006 (when it's released in Japan)

Re:Sucks to be an early adopter (1)

ceeam (39911) | more than 9 years ago | (#11909810)

"it will lower the price of DL media into something more affordable"

Hardly. I read somewhere that the problems are not in the market but instead they are pretty fundamental to technology. It is apparently quite a tricky thing to do a second layer that will have the same response levels as a first one but being not just a layer of plastic away but two layers of plastic and the first reflective layer. So the cost of producing a two layer disk is much much more that producing two single-layer disks. Normal bluray disks would OTOH be hopefully ok with a single layer.

3.5 floppies (1)

S. J. Massey (678588) | more than 9 years ago | (#11909833)

Ah the memories of buying 3.5 floppies 1 at a time for $8. You had to ask the cashier to give it to you from under the counter at the VA Tech Bookstore circa 1987.

The diffrence that matters (3, Insightful)

NightDragon (732139) | more than 9 years ago | (#11909660)

Its not so much that their two diffrent formats (As there will be at some point a combo drive, it always happens)...
its the fact that there are going to be two _competing_ formats which means...

lower prices!

Re:The diffrence that matters (4, Interesting)

rdc_uk (792215) | more than 9 years ago | (#11909742)

No.

As with DVD-R(W) and DVD+R(W). Prices will be similar, devices will have either singular-support, or very sketchy dual-support.

Current / Older home DVD-Players and DVD-ROM drives will either be incompatible, or very, very picky.

Prices will be in fact pretty high for a good time because take up will be slow until the 2nd gen of the technology comes through (reasonably solid dual-format writers, common and solid dual-format players).

Meanwhile, someone will have produced DivX++, that can re-encode the content of a HD-DVD or Blu-Ray DVD, allowing it to be written to a standard DVD, in a quality that is acceptable for the drop in price. It is these files that will be popular, downloaded from the net.

After a while of that, people will start to use HD-DVD or Blu Ray DVD to backup their multiple DivX++ images onto one big-ass disc.

At which point the tech companies will reveal their plans for SDD-DVD (super-duper-density DVD), and the competing standard Puce-Ray DVD. Which will be sony's concept. These discs will be the future because they hold such better-qualtiy movies, and the capacity makes piracy impractical...

And the big circle-jerk will begin again!

Sony & Apple (4, Insightful)

lameland (23851) | more than 9 years ago | (#11909696)

I think they planned to annouce this at the MacWorld Keynote, but sometihng kept them from doing it. Why else would they have gotten the CEO of Sony to be there? They could have gotten anybody from Sony to demo their HDV camera, CEO appearances are saved for special occasions. As far as the HDV camera goes, Sony isn't the only manufacturer with an HDV prosumer camera.

You're all wrong (5, Funny)

DrinkingIllini (842502) | more than 9 years ago | (#11909743)

Whichever one I buy will be the one that loses. *kicks beta max*

Re:You're all wrong (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11909773)

Jasper Carrot is that you?

Fuck you. (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11909880)

That handle'd better be ironic, dipshit.

Format Wars (2, Insightful)

H_Fisher (808597) | more than 9 years ago | (#11909751)

the division in Hollywood and notebook manufacturers ... will ensure the bona fide format war we were all secretly pining for.

So why, exactly, should I be pining for a format war?

All that means to me is several years of incompatible hardware, price fluctuation, and annoying-ass FUD campaigns ("Our discs last longer! HD-DVDs melt after three months!" "That's a lie, plus OUR discs have better color density on playback!" "Oh YEAH?? Well, OUR discs...")

A format war might drive prices down more quickly in the short term, but what good is that to me if I need to buy new hardware and don't want to get stuck with a lemon during those few years before either one format wins hands-down or dual-capability drives get introduced?

Re:Format Wars (1)

Xugumad (39311) | more than 9 years ago | (#11909839)

Exactly. The whole recordable DVD thing was enough of a mess (sufficiently so that I still haven't bought a DVD writer, although probably soon now that dual format drives are out). I want HDTV content, which means buying my movies/TV series on one of these disk types, and discovering a few years down the line I picked the one that sunk is my idea of hell...

Apple's influence... (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11909755)

and from now on we'll call it BondiBlu-ray

The cheap one wins (0)

Overzeetop (214511) | more than 9 years ago | (#11909761)

Yes, apple backed +R. But +R lagged behind early on because the discs were 2X the price (even thought they burned at 2.4x vs 2x...nobody was impressed).

The reason +R survived was that manufacturers created +/- drives. Now +R discs are comparable in price to -R. +R also has a better following now because its supported by about the same number of consumer players, usually as a brief edge in speed and is the only DL format. But those last three are just icing. The real reason it's alive is the dual format burners. The real reason it's popular is because its price competitive.

Hint: if you want BluRay to succeed, make sure that all the pressed content is out there in BR. If you want it to crush HD-DVD, make Blu-ray cheaper to buy blank media, cheaper to manufacture pressed discs, and make the hardware the same cost as HD-DVD. As icing, make sure every BluRay player can play HD-DVD as well.

Re:The cheap one wins (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11909888)

Apple only started supporting DVD+R from January this year. Previously, they had been DVD-R only.

I'm sorry, you have a basic fact wrong (3, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11909901)

Apple has only ever supported DVD-R for recording.

Now that DVD+/-R recorders have been out for 2 year, Apple is still pushing just the -R.

I know, I just bought an iMac G5 last month, and annoyingly, you have to buy blank -R's, not the more common and popular +R's.

Sony... (1)

bigbigbison (104532) | more than 9 years ago | (#11909784)

For those who are interested in the rumored Apple-Sony connection, this could be seen as a way for Apple to please Sony...

Oh Great (4, Funny)

DrinkingIllini (842502) | more than 9 years ago | (#11909792)

Now there will be TWO other ways for them to release about a billion old movies and tv shows...I own about 5 copies of the Star Wars Trilogy as it is.

Hollywood doesn't like Blu-Ray because... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11909841)

They don't like Blu-Ray because it can hold HDTV quality video.

You do get that MPAA's plan is to sell you HD-DVD at sort of EDTV solution, then tell you its obsolete and sell you something else with slightly higher resolution.

They claim their content is licensed, but they keep selling us a license over and over again for the same content. Just different format.

And we're so stupid we buy into it.
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