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Which Linux Certification?

Cliff posted more than 9 years ago | from the more-letters-at-the-end-of-your-name dept.

Linux Business 93

dirvish asks: "I am trying to break into the Linux Server Administration field so I have been doing quite a bit of studying lately. I figured while I am studying the subject I might as well work towards a related certification. I am leaning towards the Linux Professional Institute Certification. Other certifications I am considering are CompTIAs Linux+ and Red Hats RHCE. So which Linux certification is the best? I would say Red Hat is the most reputable of these three but I am concerned that their certification might be too Red-Hat-centric, and I don't want to be locked into one distro. Which one is the easiest/cheapest to obtain? Which is the mostly highly regarded in the industry? Are there others that I missed?"

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Slashdot Certification is easiest/cheapest ... (2, Funny)

xmas2003 (739875) | more than 9 years ago | (#11964484)

But don't know how "highly regarded" Karma=Excellent is in the industry ...

Re:Slashdot Certification is easiest/cheapest ... (2, Funny)

clickster (669168) | more than 9 years ago | (#11966197)

I tried for that cert, but didn't get very far.

On the first post of the test, I clicked on the provided link and was immediately presented with a box that said:

"Anti-RTFA Section Status: FAILED"

It wouldn't even let me continue. Something about "learning the basics"

"Which one is best?" (-1, Troll)

Safety Cap (253500) | more than 9 years ago | (#11964500)

The fact that you are asking this indicates that you don't understand the question. The question isn't what piece of paper you have. The questions are can you do the job your potential employer needs done, the way he wants it done, and at a profit?

Certs answer none of those. Remember, past "experience" is no guarantee of future performance. At all. Ever.

Re:"Which one is best?" (1, Interesting)

shaitand (626655) | more than 9 years ago | (#11964588)

"The fact that you are asking this indicates that you don't understand the question. The question isn't what piece of paper you have. The questions are can you do the job your potential employer needs done, the way he wants it done, and at a profit?"

What does that have to do with getting a job? You must be an employer.

Re:"Which one is best?" (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11964741)

Ohfercryinoutloud -- he's asking a perfectly reasonable question. Just because you think certs are meaningless doesn't mean all (most, some, any...) employers agree with you.

Re:"Which one is best?" (1, Interesting)

pingwin (656815) | more than 9 years ago | (#11964763)

Wow you did a perfect job of not answering the question at hand, giving broadstroke opinions and then your proceeded to say that experience can't vouche for future performance? Well what the heck do you think does? anything? Drink some coffee and brighten up you downer.

Re:"Which one is best?" (2, Insightful)

Total_Wimp (564548) | more than 9 years ago | (#11964907)

The fact that you are asking this indicates that you don't understand the question. blah, blah, blah Certs answer none of those. Remember, past "experience" is no guarantee of future performance. At all. Ever.

The fact that you answered the question in this way indicates _you_ do not understand the question. The question is: "What will get me more money and be most relevant to my job for the least amount of effort on my part?" It's a damn good question, It shows he's willing to work, but doesn't want to do unnecessary work, and his goals are most certainly something employers highly value.

Part of the answer is easy to find. More money means more respect, at least within the context of this subject, so salary surveys (which he has already attempted to look at) will point at the truth. The other parts about relevance and ease, do not appear to be answered by salary surveys, hence the question put to the /. community.

So, my recommendation: Make an attempt to answer his highly relevant and well worded question which he appears to understand very well. Denegrating him for asking it only helps to drive another eager, fresh mind from IT.

TW

Re:"Which one is best?" (1)

Otter (3800) | more than 9 years ago | (#11965060)

I was going to let the original post pass without comment, but reconsidered upon seeing the "Troll"s and "Flamebait"s being handed out to the sensible responses.

The parent (and aunts and uncles) are entirely correct; the grandparent seems to be confusing his wishful thinking with everyone else's reality.

Re:"Which one is best?" (4, Informative)

akpoff (683177) | more than 9 years ago | (#11965000)

The fact that you are asking this indicates that you don't understand the question. The question isn't what piece of paper you have. The questions are can you do the job your potential employer needs done, the way he wants it done, and at a profit?
That might be true if you have applicable past experience. For someone trying to break into a new field or get their first job certification can be a valuable way of showing some level of competence. But entry-level is not where the value of certification ends. Certification can also demonstrate advanced knowledge or experience. Consider most states PE (professional engineer) designation -- PEs can certify that a certain design meets state code for best practices, structural integrity and safety. CPA is also a certification that demonstrates knowledge and competence and allows the holder to sign his/her name on legally binding documents that a regular bookeeper/account can't.

In the IT field there aren't many certifications if any that are equivalent to the PE but that's just a matter of time. Consider security-related certs like the CISSP and GIAC that demonstrate knowledge and in the case of the CISSP that the holder has documented past experience (4 years) working in security-related IT jobs. Someday IT certifications will carry as much weight as any of the current professional certifications and will allow the holder to sign and attest to the validity of the design or security or implementation of some aspect of IT

To the original questioner, reading down below it sounds like the LPIC is the harder. Frankly, I'd be inclined to get the LPIC and try and add to it a security certification like the CISSP or GIAC. If you don't have the applicable 4-year-time experience for the CISSP then you'll have to get the GIAC. Both are hard and well respected in their areas. The CISSP is a bit more director/consultant/CSO oriented while the GIAC is more engineering oriented so it may be more useful to you for now. Either way, get a security cert as well. Just knowing how to administer makes you a candidate. Knowing secure administration makes you a stand-out candidate.

Re:"Which one is best?" (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11965445)

Sigh, every time someone asks a valid question about how to improve their work prospects someone else argues that the certification is only valid with experience.

This is obviously not true, as most people that work in IT will tell you - those with certifications will inevitably get the job before those without certs.

Re:"Which one is best?" (2, Insightful)

sfjoe (470510) | more than 9 years ago | (#11965679)

Remember, past "experience" is no guarantee of future performance. At all. Ever.


On the contrary, past behavior is the BEST predictor of future performance. A person who has a history of taking intitiative and solving problems will be the person who continues to do so. I bet you're one of those people that asks questions like, "why are manhole covers round" at interviews.

Re:"Which one is best?" (1)

shufler (262955) | more than 9 years ago | (#11967762)

"why are manhole covers round"

They're not. They're square. [netfunny.com]

Re:"Which one is best?" (1)

DasBub (139460) | more than 9 years ago | (#11984146)

On the contrary, past behavior is the BEST predictor of future performance.

I have to nitpick this. The original poster said that "experience is no guarantee of future performance."

In this, he is right. Past behaviour is indeed the best predictor, but it is by no means a guarantee.

When it comes to certifications... (2, Funny)

DrJonesAC2 (652108) | more than 9 years ago | (#11964510)

..no one in management is really going to care. Just rack up as many as possible. The bobble-heads will probably never look into it.

Why Bother (4, Interesting)

finkployd (12902) | more than 9 years ago | (#11964539)

Ok, I will freely admit to working for a University, and not the private sector. Are certifications really held in such high regard out there? I know here they mean squat (and rightfully so imho, all they show is that you could afford to take the certification test). Heck, some departments around here will automatically disregard your resume if you put MCSE on it :)

Finkployd

Re:Why Bother (2, Interesting)

dJCL (183345) | more than 9 years ago | (#11964579)

On the other hand, my company states in it's contract with customers that an MCSE tech will be available to troubleshoot their issues 24/7. Seeming as I am not MCSE, when I go onsite they can in theory request another tech to work on the problem. It never happens, usually because I fix the problem.

Just because I don't have an MCSE, doesn't mean I cannot solve your problems. But I do want to do the studying for them to get myself up to speed on some of the server components that I don't know too well yet.

Anyway...

Re:Why Bother (3, Insightful)

Stop Error (823742) | more than 9 years ago | (#11964609)

Odd, I have had different experience. I have consulted for and worked for many companies that give preference to certain certifications over CS degrees. The managers involved I talked to stated that while a CS degree does show theoretical knowledge their experience has been that Certified professionals have greater "working" or "practical" knowledge.

I myself have no degree but a numer of certifications and have had more success finding and maintaining employment then many of my colleagues who do not.

Re:Why Bother (2, Insightful)

shaitand (626655) | more than 9 years ago | (#11964618)

Highly regarded compared to? Certs do not just show you could take the test, but also that you studied for an passed the test. That means at one time you at least had cursory knowledge of the full breadth of a real job related subject.

They certainly are no substitute for job experience, but they are far more relevant than a degree.

It does make a difference WHICH certs you have. MCSE's aren't worth the paper they are written on. Current CISCO certs are in style.

Re:Why Bother (1)

sumdumass (711423) | more than 9 years ago | (#11973268)

certs also carry a "cover you ass" clause. I once went to a customers house with a virrus ridden computer and a failing hardrive. After replacing the drive and infecting the new own, i decided it would be best to start from scratch and let him restore his backups (wich were virus laden too).

After he discovered that all his information was gone and his programs needed t be reinstalled, he resotre some backups from several months ago along with a virus that was pretty harmless but consumed alot od cpu cycles. He then decided that a law suite against me was warented because "i didn't fix the problem" When showing up in small claims court, after the judge ask what the problem was, he asked me what my experience and qualifications were. At the time i was A+ and half way thru a MCSA. the judge then asked what the other guy knew about computers and he claimed he knew how to turn them on and that was about it. The judge closed the case right then and said somethign to the sort of he didn't know how bad it was messed up.

I know the tech from the opther shop he took it to get fixed, He was restoring virus form his backups and didn't run any anti virus. I was surprised to hear that all the tech "took him for a ride" and he went thru alot of them. (and computers)

Do Bother (2, Insightful)

lbmouse (473316) | more than 9 years ago | (#11964639)

I've been working IT in the private sector for over 15 years now. In most cases, proper and current certification is more important than a college degree. Much of my college experience was done in FORTRAN 77 and does me little good now. Certification helps keep you current on new industry technology. A degree is a piece of paper that might help get you in the door.

Re:Do Bother (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11968010)

A degree is a piece of paper that might help get you in the door.

A Certification is a piece of paper that might help you in the door.

My experience with many people with certifications is that they are morons, not all, mind you, but most. This is my experience with many people who have a college degree as well. As with any category, there are smart capable people who can do the job, and there are those who have the paper to show that they knew how to cram for tests and only remember the information for the short time they were taking their tests.

I was one of the few who never crammed for tests in college, not because I was a genius, I wasn't, but because I was interested in the subjects and was always learning bit by bit along the way and remembering them. There was no point for me to "study" for a test, since I knew the stuff already. I might spend 10 minutes before a test going over something I didn't completely understand, just to be sure I understood it better. The crammers forgot the material after the test, because that was their only goal, to pass the tests. I kept my knowledge, because my goal was to learn and understand the material. I could care less about the tests.


Incidently, along with regular planned quizes,tests, or midterms, pop quizes or pop midterms should be given to weed out some of the crammers at colleges. Many of them don't deserve the higher grade they get just from cramming. Don't make the classes easy. I hate those classes where nearly everyone gets 9 out of 10 or 10 out of 10 on their tests or assignments because they were so easy that almost everyone gets a good score. You might accidently get a 9 out of 10 because of some typographical error. You don't learn anything in those classes, except that the instructor is a moron.

Re:Why Bother (0, Troll)

zerkon (838861) | more than 9 years ago | (#11966683)

MSCE? all that shows is that you can point and click :-p

Re:Why Bother (1)

Drakino (10965) | more than 9 years ago | (#11968317)

In the private sector, yes certifications matter. They see them as a way of judging someones skills if their resume lacks the needed education or experience. I personally am working on having a good OS certification, SAN certifications, and hardware certifications to hopefully skip the bottom rung of the IT ladder if I move jobs, since I am not at the bottom at my current one.

It all depends on the certification and company though. One military contractor place I am looking at also has a high amount of network positions. Nearly all mandate some type of Cisco certification.

Re:Why Bother (1)

Jim Hall (2985) | more than 9 years ago | (#11970001)

Ok, I will freely admit to working for a University, and not the private sector. Are certifications really held in such high regard out there? I know here they mean squat ...

That doesn't apply everywhere, son. I also work for a University (part of Big-10) in the enterprise support area, and I just recently hired a Linux Admin. RHCE was something we looked for in our candidates - we have already standardized on Red Hat Linux, so RHCE certainly applies. I won't say it's a deciding factor, but those who listed RHCE (or even RHCT) on their resume were automatically someone we became more interested in.

I suppose it's something else to get your foot in the door.

Re:Why Bother (0)

zonker (1158) | more than 9 years ago | (#11970958)

it seems to me that if you are looking for a job in a large company having a name like novell on your certification list might make some folks take notice. novell's certified linux [novell.com] program is pretty decent and is backed by a big name (well, used to be a bigger name, but they are still well known).

in addition it will tell the person that you aren't just adept at linux but using linux in a real business environment, where novell networks are usually found which imho makes the novell cert more meaningful than a redhat cert...

Re:Why Bother (1)

bardothodal (864753) | more than 9 years ago | (#11971380)

Universities aren't considered the "real world". Academia will settle for a higher rate of failure than the stockholders will.

Re:Why Bother (1)

finkployd (12902) | more than 9 years ago | (#11972576)

I've found the opposite to be true. Most people from the "real world" (especially vendors) cannot comprehend that we run a kerberos realm supporting 150,000 principals spread out over 23 locatations. Or run an email server that processes over 6 million emails a day. Or ended up writing most of our own central services (webmail, portal, business logic, finance logic, interfaces to these) because commercial offerings at the time did not scale to our size. And we support researchers who have billions in grants for a more diverisfied range of applications than any private company would ever deal with.

No, I do not find the error tolerence to be nearly what I have seen the private sector accept.

Finkployd

I would go with a vendor (2, Informative)

vasqzr (619165) | more than 9 years ago | (#11964568)


RHCE...Does IBM or Novell offer anything yet?

It's always best to certify for the job you have, or want to get.

Re:I would go with a vendor (1)

Nacnude (802745) | more than 9 years ago | (#11965145)

Yeah, Novell has their version of the RHCE but I don't think anyones cares yet...

Novell's (1)

cythrawll (868585) | more than 9 years ago | (#11966476)

I been steering my head toward's Novell's certificates... they do know their *nix...

Re:I would go with a vendor (1)

drspliff (652992) | more than 9 years ago | (#11967072)

The Novell Certified Linux Engineer (and their other Linux certification options) are suprisingly well thought out.

I'd see this as a good certificaion to get under your belt, although it does deal with SuSE a little more than just generic Linux and Unix, you could say the same about the RHCE

My advice would be to go for the RHCE or Novell/SuSE option. But the one thing you have to remember is - certification is worth jack without real experience to back it up

By real experience I mean dealing with crazy stuff that is bound to happen, learning more advanced options for lots of tools, real-life (or even simulated) backup strategies, and most importantly - security.

I was hired by a mid-sized college after a 'government sponsored training scheme' (call it a severly underpaid internship - around £1 per hour) after demonstrating a fair amount of linux knowledge (and a load of other stuff).

My best advice for you is to get certified in whatever you can afford (to get past 'level one'), but try work for anybody on anything to do with Linux or Unix in any flavour.. even volunteer for charities, friends or whatever.

When it comes down to it you need industry experience so don't got for the big guns just yer, just be happy with whatever you end up with

Re:I would go with a vendor (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11972296)

*sigh*
I remember when the Novell CNE was the only certification worth having.
By the way, the Novell CNE was around long before Red Hat even existed, you dumbass.

Re:I would go with a vendor (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11973318)

*sigh*
He was referring to the Novell CLP and CLE.

UserActive (2, Informative)

Wolfger (96957) | more than 9 years ago | (#11964575)

UserActive [useractive.com] is an O'Reilly partner, and their cert was pretty darn easy. Also fairly cheap (but I got a good discount on their regular price). However, it hasn't so much as gotten me an interview yet, so I'm not sure as it has any value whatsoever (even though the cert is actually issued by University of Illinois Urbana-Champagne).

ScreenSavers quote (1)

Kiaser Zohsay (20134) | more than 9 years ago | (#11964651)

Back when the show was still reasonably cool (12-18 months ago maybe), somebody called in with a question on how to do something or other in Linux, so Leo segued to "our own CompTIA certified Kevin Rose", who responded with "That is the lamest cert ever" and quickly went on to answer the question.

Re:ScreenSavers quote (1)

mattyrobinson69 (751521) | more than 9 years ago | (#11965955)

Ive got the compTIA A+, but i only took it because it was free with my college course, i dont expect it to help me get anywhere though (unless im in the situation where there's somebody with the exact qualifications i have except the a+).

Bah, it was free and didn't take too much thinking.

Re:ScreenSavers quote (2, Insightful)

tverbeek (457094) | more than 9 years ago | (#11969424)

My previous job required everyone with my job classification to have CompTIA A+ certification. I didn't have it; I don't have any certs. Instead I have a decade and a half of professional experience and the ability to learn new tech as I use it. I managed to get hired without the cert, with the provision that I'd have to take and pass the test within six months, and they generously offered to pay for it.

Another coworker who'd been hired at the same time studied hard for it, and was very pleased to pass it with a few months to spare. Good for her. But I studiously avoided signing up for it, figuring that any employer who insisted that I get the IT equivalent of a GED, despite my obvious qualifications, was not a place I wanted to stay. So that gave me a six-month deadline to get out of there. 26 weeks later, I was out the door, having found and taken a better job, where they didn't even ask about certs; instead they read my resume and asked me good questions about what I knew.

I considered letting the previous employer pay for that cert test, so I'd have it in my back pocket. But it's something I'd be embarassed to put on my resume, and I feel better knowing that I didn't have to resort to it.

Re:ScreenSavers quote - Amen (1)

6800 (643075) | more than 9 years ago | (#11984471)

You sound like my kinda man! Probably kin to John Wayne too :-).

for what? (2, Informative)

shaitand (626655) | more than 9 years ago | (#11964657)

If you want to get a job you want your RHCE since that is what companies list.

If you want to get a job with IBM/Novell then an LPIC will do just fine. These are the only companies I have ever seen an LPIC listed as preferred or required for.

If you want to know which is a harder and more relevant cert it is the LPIC hands down. The LPIC actually certifies you know vendor neutral linux and how to do things the hard way. The RHCE can be passed without every touching linux, it is similar to the MCSE.

Re:for what? (1)

matbas (860977) | more than 9 years ago | (#11964901)

The RHCE can be passed without every touching linux That's funny when I passed my RHCE I could of sworn it was a practical hands-on exam using linux... what exam did I pass then?

Re:for what? (2, Interesting)

shaitand (626655) | more than 9 years ago | (#11965085)

I have passed both. The LPIC-1 requires a stronger and more thorough knowledge of Linux than the RHCE, let alone the LPIC-2.

Re:for what? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11967911)

I have passed both.

Judging by your comments, I highly doubt that.

[Re:for what?] (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11974803)

Then please let have your certification number. That way, we can verify it at http://www.redhat.com/training/certification/verif y [redhat.com]

Re:for what? (1)

Rudeboy777 (214749) | more than 9 years ago | (#11994780)

That's funny when I passed my RHCE I could of sworn it was a practical hands-on exam using linux... what exam did I pass then?

The redhat-config-network and up2date pop quiz?

Re:for what? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11967891)

The RHCE can be passed without every touching linux, it is similar to the MCSE.

Uninformed Bullshit [redhat.com] .

Re:for what? (1)

Flunitrazepam (664690) | more than 9 years ago | (#11970229)

The RHCE can be passed without every touching linux, it is similar to the MCSE.

IIARHCE, and the RHCE test is 5.5 hours, absolutely NO written material. You work on a machine, if you fix it you pass, if you don't you fail.

I have no idea what test you are referring to, but you have your facts wrong.

Re:for what? (1)

Pros_n_Cons (535669) | more than 9 years ago | (#11971935)

You've obviously never taken the RHCE It is not easy and certainly not MCSE. LPI failure rate is 54% and RHCE failure rate is 57% This can easly be someone not getting a slackware/debian/mandrake/suse question right. The RHCE is vender neutral cert with the exception of a few one or two Kickstart and Anaconda questions. For instance when you go in to the test room you are pointed to a box that wont turn on, its your job to make it run hands on within a few hours. How you can say you can pass it without ever touching linux is incorrect to say the least.

Re:for what? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11975008)

You are sooooo wrong. The RHCE test is two sections, the first is troubleshooting, you have to fix a broken box. The second half is installation and configuration. The written portion of the test was removed from the test early last year.

LPIC (3, Informative)

doodleboy (263186) | more than 9 years ago | (#11964716)

While not perfect, the LPI cert is the best imho. It's vendor neutral, inexpensive, and doesn't arbitrarily expire for the purpose of making money on re-certs.

I actually have the LPIC-1 certification. The test itself was surprisingly hard for an entry level linux certification, but fair. I read somewhere that the failure rate is near 60%, so don't expect to just walk in and ace it.

I wouldn't bother with the Linux+ exam. While it might bamboozle some HR departments, I wonder if it's hard enough to demonstrate any real competence with linux. The only CompTIA certification I have is the A+ (paid for by a former employer) and it was a *total* joke. A monkey could pass it.

Re:LPIC (1)

dJCL (183345) | more than 9 years ago | (#11964861)

But I did walk in and Ace it...

Cheap tests offered at the Ottawa open source weekend last year - I think $50CDN/test - I was able to take 3 tests in that time, and while dificult and wide ranged, they were passable with not studying if you are a sad pathetic looser with no life - ie me.

Seriously, they are not bad, and deserve more recognition in the industry.

Any of them or none of them. (5, Informative)

hey! (33014) | more than 9 years ago | (#11964761)

Really, what you want, and works better than anything else, is a network of people who know you. Since you're just starting out, you don't have this network. The value of a certification is this: it might create a marginal increase in the probability that you will make it past the resume screening stage to a phone call, and thence to an interview. Period.

It works like this, I'm looking for a linux system admin, and I have a stack of way more people than I want to even call back.

A is fresh out of school with no particular qualifications, but he claims to know Linux. He goes in the "no" pile.

B has ten years of Windows and Novell sys admin experience, but no professional Linux experience, although he claims to know SUSE. OK, he goes in the "maybe" pile.

C has ten years of Unix system administration experience, including NIS, LDAP, and five years of professional experience with several Linux distros. He goes in the "call back" pile.

D is fresh out of school with no with a certification in Linux administration. He goes in the "no" pile, after the briefest moment of delay.

E has ten years of Windows and Novell sys admin experience, no professional Linux experience, but he has a certification from Red Hat. OK, so he goes in the "call back" pile.


You see how this works? The certification doesn't make up for your lack of professional experience. If I want an experienced system administrator, I'm going to hire one. I'm going to prefer ones with knowledge of the platform, the best way is if its on their resume, but I'm more open to a guy who has the real world admin skills that could be transferred than I am to somebody whose certification only establishes a theoretical knowledge of Linux administration.

In the end it doesn't matter much which one you get. None of these certifications are like getting a CPA, which carries weight because it implies a number of years of hands on experience plus a strong theoretical grounding in accounting. My advice would be to get the certification that you think has the greatest "brand name" recognition.

Think of it like batting in baseball. The goal is to get to home, but even a tremendously talented hitter only gets to first base on his own skills less than one third of the time. Getting the job is coming to home; getting the interview is first base. At this stage, you're very lucky if you bat .200. A certification might raise a .200 to a .210 or a .215. Which is enough to be worth considering.

But also work your network. You don't have one? Well, maybe. Don't you have friends working in the field? Suppose you have a friend working as an app developer. If he happens to drop your name to a supervisor looking for a sys admin, and follows up by hand delivering your resume, your batting average is going to go way up -- more like .800 or .900. Doesn't mean you'll get to home, but you'll almost certainly get to first base.

Also consider non-standard ways of finding that job. So, that fortune 100 company that has the full page ad for linux admins in the Sunday paper? Unless you have a resume that's going to stand out, forget it. But that small non-profit that needs a "computer guy" that has a card up in the job placement at the university? Go for it. That's how I got started.

Re:Any of them or none of them. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11965098)

My advice would be to get the certification that you think has the greatest "brand name" recognition.

Uh, no shit. That's why his question was "Which is the mostly highly regarded in the industry?" What's the point of posting a monograph about job hunting while not bothering to answer his question, which you yourself agree is the key?

Re:Any of them or none of them. (3, Interesting)

Goeland86 (741690) | more than 9 years ago | (#11965736)

Wait, so what you're basically saying, in the first part of your comment, is that any kid out of school that doesn't have professional linux admin skills is automatically in the "no" pile? This sucks! How the hell are college grads supposed to find a job if they all require previous professional experience? You seem to have a fairly good knowledge of the business, so what would a college grad with a CS/math degree do to get a job in linux admin, when none of the CS classes he took lead to administration? I've installed gentoo on a few boxes, repaired mandrake, used redhat 9 and SuSE, but nothing professionally. Are you saying I should start by joining in a non-profit organization and work my way up? But are non-profit orgs professional experience? And how do we make money in the meantime? I'm really curious as to the answer to those questions, because they're most likely the ones I'll be facing in 3 years.

Re:Any of them or none of them. (1)

Velex (120469) | more than 9 years ago | (#11965848)

To get professional experience, get a good internship. Companies who are looking for interns are looking for people with no experience they can pay sub-par wage to, which is fair, since they're taking a risk. Technical skill is only a small part, almost a side consideration, to being a professional. If you do well, the company that gave you an internship may offer you a real job when you graduate.

Re:Any of them or none of them. (2, Informative)

biglig2 (89374) | more than 9 years ago | (#11965865)

He's trying to hire a skilled Linux Admin in his example. If he were trying to hire an unskilled person who he could turn into a skilled admin, that's what he would do. And companies do occasionally do this; provided you have the luxury of not needing them to be productive immediately, hiring an unskilled can have advantages (basically, you can pay them peanuts, and you get to make them in your own image - they have no bad habits to unlearn)

I started by becoming a very low level SA for my university the year after I graduated. That gave me a year of experience, enough to get me a better job for another few years, and that gave me enough experience to get a junior SA role at my current company, where now I'm #2 SA worldwide. So it can be done.

Re:Any of them or none of them. (5, Informative)

hey! (33014) | more than 9 years ago | (#11967102)

How the hell are college grads supposed to find a job if they all require previous professional experience?

Yup, it sucks, but imagine how much more it will suck on the other end of your career, when you're too senior for most of the jobs that are out there. The point is that job searching is about rejection. You get rejected and rejected and rejected and rejected. Unlike you're mom and girlfiend, they don't know how wonderful you are, which is why getting a friend to put in a good word is so valuable.

I may have painted too bleak a picture. I've hired guys right out of school -- when I'm looking for somebody cheap to fil a junior position. What I'm saying is don't expect anybody to be impressed with your "certification".

I've installed gentoo on a few boxes, repaired mandrake, used redhat 9 and SuSE, but nothing professionally. Are you saying I should start by joining in a non-profit organization and work my way up?

Not necessarily. Work your way up, yes; be aware of different avenues for finding jobs, yes. But don't expect me to count any of that mucking around as system administration experience. I think it speaks well of yoru curiosity, but it's not experience. You might get a job in a large data center, but it definitely won't be running it. Don't be to offended if you are asked to make coffee. In fact if you're wise you get that phase out of the way by getting an internship. Interns are easy shoe ins for real live jobs.

WRT the non-profit, that's just an example of the fact you can take different strategies. It's not for everyone. Another strategy is get in on the ground floor of a big outfit and climb through a Darwinian process to the top of the heap over everyone else. It's a good strategy, but every strategy has its disadvantages too. You aren't going to have a lot of autonomy to do things the way you like, until you have risen to become master of the universe. Getting to the interview stage is going to be tougher.

But are non-profit orgs professional experience? And how do we make money in the meantime?

Yes: a job is a job. If you had one or two years of professional experience in a small company (a non-profit was just an example), you're well positioned to get into the rat race. Another advantage is that in a smaller company you get more decision making power right from the get go. However I wouldn't stay in that area too long unless you want to track your career that way. For one thing, you'll miss out on having colleagues (your future employment network).

Don't let a job become a career track unless that's what you really want.

In many ways, the sweet spot for hiring a junior person is somebody with a year or two of real world experience. Somebody with an internship in exactly the kind of situation I'm hiring would be ideal, but somebody with 1-2 years of professional experience looking to change industries is definitely ahead of somebody fresh out of school.

I'm really curious as to the answer to those questions, because they're most likely the ones I'll be facing in 3 years.

You've got lots of time, but don't waste it. Go for a summer internship. Be cheerful, useful, and a pleasure to work with. Cultivate people. I you have a summer internship, keep in touch with the people you've cultivated through the year, see if you can't get odd jobs during winter break for example. Once upon a time, there were two classes of people: entrepreneurs, who worried about getting ahead, selling, networking and all that stuff.

Re:Any of them or none of them. (1)

tverbeek (457094) | more than 9 years ago | (#11970113)

How the hell are college grads supposed to find a job if they all require previous professional experience?

The same way those people with experience got their first jobs: they took jobs that didn't require it. I didn't take off my cap and gown and walk into a room with raised floors and too much air conditioning. I took a job doing entry level support work. There I learned new real-world skills and gained the kind of professional experience that started to make me qualified for something with more responsibility. And after a while, I gradually got enough responsibility to prove myself. So the next time I applied for a job, I had enough actual experience to get a job that involved some higher-level responsibilities, and as I showed that I had the skills and responsibility for more, I gradually moved into being a system administrator.

Re:Any of them or none of them. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11985809)

Small company to start with is a good way to go. It can give you a leg up when you move to the large ones. With experience you won't have to move from the bottom up, you can start somewhere in the middle.

I started my sysadmin career as a 17 year old doing tech support at an ISP. They didn't post a job opening; I sought out ISPs in town that were running linux servers and filled out the app. It sat in a pile but eventually I got a call. After 8 months or so of taking tech support calls the company went through some changes and my prowess with linux, apache, bind, and routers landed me the sysadmin job. Granted, it was a 7 employee company with around 2k-3k dialup customers, but it was a great start.

After numerous renumberings of the network and service migrations from acquired ISPs I learned a lot about updating and upgrading daily used services. Many of the lessons learned were more in the fields of communication and psychology, but most were technical.

After spending 3 or so years doing ISP, Internet, and small software development freelancing work I needed a regular job. I had been out of the professional field of sysadmin'ing and I didn't have as strong of a professional network so I felt like I was starting the job market cold. After submitting my resume to about 15 different positions I ended up (finally!) landing an interview. A month later I have a great job that is not exactly sysadmin related (data translation with Perl) but very exciting and rewarding. My experience with *nix's has translated to good familiarity with the AIX boxes at my new job.

Internships (1)

lorcha (464930) | more than 9 years ago | (#12003692)

Do internships while in school. Also, you can work for larger employers when you graduate. They won't pay as well, but they are more willing to hire and train someone. A small organization will have one sysadmin, if any. No way they'll take a chance on you. Also, work in your school's UNIX lab. They'll train you, and you'll have some experience you can point to.

But seriously, put yourself in an employer's shoes. Would you rather have someone with professional experience in a position similar to your need, or some greenbean who has installed a few gentoo boxes?

FYI, when I look at a resume, I do not fault someone too much for only having experience at nonprofits. If you find you can only get a job at a nonprofit, take it. By the way, there is no meaningful "working your way up" in a nonprofit. Get some experience and then go for-profit. Unless you want to work at a nonprofit for ideological reasons. BTW, nonprofits generally do pay. Just not very well. But your quality of life will generally be better. Very 9-5.

I don't even look at certifications.

Re:Any of them or none of them. (1)

fm6 (162816) | more than 9 years ago | (#11966298)

Really, what you want, and works better than anything else, is a network of people who know you.
And in a perfect world, that would be the only way people would hire each other. The kind of networking you describe certainly helps. But the sad fact is that you need paper credentials just to get past the HR gatekeepers.

Re:Any of them or none of them. (1)

hey! (33014) | more than 9 years ago | (#11967386)

Well, that's in large companies. Another strategy is to let a headhunter deal with this problem.

Re:Any of them or none of them. (1)

Baloo Ursidae (29355) | more than 9 years ago | (#11969135)

But the sad fact is that you need paper credentials just to get past the HR gatekeepers.

If that's the case, you're doing something wrong.

Re:will document API's for food (1)

dmh20002 (637819) | more than 9 years ago | (#11972527)

man, you must really be hungry.

Re:will document API's for food (1)

fm6 (162816) | more than 9 years ago | (#11972716)

Starving!

New RHCE (3, Insightful)

mckeowbc (513776) | more than 9 years ago | (#11964782)

I just got my RHCE last week. I've been using Debian for years, but since my office uses Red Hat I got certified so that I'd know better how to support the boxes in my office. Without violating the NDA, I would say that it is a mix of Red Hat specific material and general linux knowledge. My previous experience with Debian still put me ahead of my other co-workers who didn't have as much experience in general with Linux. However, they do go through all the RH specific tools for doing things, but in the end a lot of the time I still come back to using a text editor and hacking the config file by hand.

Re:New RHCE (1, Funny)

hey! (33014) | more than 9 years ago | (#11964843)

However, they do go through all the RH specific tools for doing things, but in the end a lot of the time I still come back to using a text editor and hacking the config file by hand.

Right-o, and who's the guy who doesn't have to panic when X shits the bed? Who's the guy who can get control of that server remotely when the network is hosed by DDOS?

That'd be you.

The certification is the wrong career move. You need to do three things:
  1. Grow a beard and a paunch
  2. Develop a fashion sense built around weird accessories like suspenders.
  3. Get an attitude

Yes, I'm saying you can become a Unix guru.

Re:New RHCE (1)

0racle (667029) | more than 9 years ago | (#11968403)

Does a goatee, Glasses and an attitude work?

Re:New RHCE (1)

QueenOfSwords (179856) | more than 9 years ago | (#11973075)

Bonus points if you're a woman with glasses and a goatee. Otherwise, no.

Re:New RHCE (1)

mbrewthx (693182) | more than 9 years ago | (#11968485)

I wear Linux t-shirts (sometimes a Solaris one) M-Thurs. and on casual Fri I wear a suit and tie.

And scream "I'm going into the server room"
When I go in just to stare at the server cabinet.

Better than none (1)

toolshed7 (756496) | more than 9 years ago | (#11964792)

Linux+ is not hard. LPI-1 is rather hard. Dont know about RH*, because they are just to exspensive right now and it is all hands on now, so it should be hard. Dont forget the network+, security+ which is the ones I am after now. If you actually study and pass, well the cert will not guarantee a job, but they will guaranttee that you learn something. I look at them more as goals, because face Computer Science books are more or less boring as hell. I got Bachleor in Math and CS, let me tell you there is nothing more boring than CS, but I love this shit....so I find it interesting. It is not that the material is boring...it is the authors. Start with Linux+ and work your way up.

RHCE... (2, Informative)

HTMLSpinnr (531389) | more than 9 years ago | (#11964850)

While the RHCE is distro-centric, it is certainly one of the more highly regarded. Unlike some certs (MCSE), the RHCE exam is not a (and now no longer even includes) multiple choice test - a test for which one can easily obtain brain-dumps and/or cram for. Instead, the RHCE is lab based. In a lab based exam, you must demonstrate actual knowledge and/or experience with the topics at hand - or at least the intuition and ability to use the tools w/ the provided docs.

I've got an RHCE from Red Hat 7.3 which is now "non-current". I do plan to re-certify under Red Hat Enterprise Linux 4 even though my present company doesn't use Red Hat (erm, sorry, PNAEL), but its CentOS clone. I find most of the information garnered from the courses and/or exam can still apply to other distros with some modification, though some topics are still somewhat Red Hat technology centric (Kickstart/Anaconda, various GUI tools).

Overall, I think if you can pass the RHCE, you've indirectly demonstrated a general working knowledge of Linux administration as well. Some of the topics I've learned in the RHCE process have helped me settle into other distros as well (i.e. Gentoo, SuSE)

If you're ambitious, and have lots of money to spend, by all means go for the LPI and other certs as well.

Re:RHCE... (1)

Geoffreyerffoeg (729040) | more than 9 years ago | (#11970186)

a test for which one can easily obtain brain-dumps

I've never really understood this. The high school ACT and SAT tests have different questions on the Saturday and Sunday administrations, and often two or three different tests at one testing site. Why can't Microsoft write a new test occasionally? Can they not afford it?

Speaking from experience (3, Interesting)

gondarlinux (740575) | more than 9 years ago | (#11964873)

In answer to "which Linux certification is the best?", I would answer, it depends on the position you desire. Some shops standardize on a particular distro, others use the flavor of the month or whatever the previous/current SA uses.

In response to "Which one is the easiest/cheapest to obtain?", I would say Linux+. I have it and obtained it with minimal study, but much hands-on experience. Is it too easy, no, I am just saying that if you are a regular power user, you should be able to peruse the objectives and take the test. A note of caution: Linux+ is not and end, it is a beginning. After obtaining it, I went to RHCT (Red Hat Certified Technician) then RHCE (both significantly more challenging, but not impossible with a lot of hands-on experience).

In response to "Which is the mostly highly regarded in the industry?", it depends on your industry. Red Hat and LPI are both highly "recognized" along with Novell's Certified Linux Professional and Certified Linux Engineer (http://www.novell.com/training/certinfo/#cert/ [novell.com] ).

To sum, it depends is lame, agreed, but when I began down this path, I earned Linux+, obtained an entry level Linux SA position, then went to training (paid for by employer) and now sit in a mid to senior level SA position.

I believe the path I took was worth it, but the important thing is to take the plunge, do somethinhg and then move around.

...gondarlinux

Step One Importantance (2, Informative)

wonkavader (605434) | more than 9 years ago | (#11965214)

Certs may get you nothing in step two, three, etc of the hiring process, but (in many companies) they help you in step ONE.

Here at my company, I get resumes and check them out and say, this person, yes, that person, no, and the others in my group do the same, and whoever someone REALLY wants to meet, or who most in the group kinda want to bring in get brought in.

We're smart, know the field, know what certs show and don't, etc.

But we're not stage one. We're stage TWO. Where did those resumes come from in the first place? Who went out on Monster and other places and pulled resumes to show us? Who screened the resumes he/she got sent due to a posting?

Screening/First Selection is stage one. Certs are searchable as key terms. They get you placed above another person with equivilent qualifications in the mind of HR.

That's where you want them. If you have experience, and have a lot of buzzwords on your resume which can be searched for, you don't need certs for stage one. But they won't hurt.

And that gets you to stage two. Now, you might not make it past stage two. But your chance of making it past stage two are ZERO if you don't get grabbed in stage one.

Hence certs.

That said, I believe that certs can HURT you in stage two. Some of us think some certs are crap, and will actually diminsh you in our estimation. So for THAT reason, get good certs, if you go that route.

Read _Sweaty Palms_ by H. Anthony Medley. It's a great book on interviewing and the job application process.

Re:Step One Importantance (1)

Geoffreyerffoeg (729040) | more than 9 years ago | (#11970221)

That said, I believe that certs can HURT you in stage two.

So what do I do? I'm 15 and I'm pretty sure I can pass the MCSE exams if I study a little; it'd be a fun challenge. But would it help me or hurt me to say that I passed the MCSE as a teenager? I'd prefer not to lose a chance for a job in a non-MS area, but I know that a lot of people are pro-MS. What about a phrase like, "For those of you who like the MCSE, I have one. For those of you who hate it, I passed it at 16 just for the challenge."

Re:Step One Importantance (1)

Xner (96363) | more than 9 years ago | (#11970927)

Honestly, I don't think that having any particular certification could hurt more than the insecurity you displayed in this comment. Honestly, if you ever end up interviewing at a place where they burn people at the stake for mentioning the word "microsoft" like that, you have bigger problems anyway.

Just make sure you have what it takes to convince the person in step two that you are actually worth something, and are not just a standardized test takign monkey.

Re:Step One Importantance (1)

Clover_Kicker (20761) | more than 9 years ago | (#11971262)

Put it on your resume. You passed the tests, you earned the title. It deserves 1 line in the education section of your resume.

Anyone looking for an MCSE will spot it, anyone who doesn't care about it won't hold it against you.

The ones I laugh at use the big official MCSE logo clipart to show how PROUD they are of their cert.

Re:Step One Importantance (1)

Geoffreyerffoeg (729040) | more than 9 years ago | (#11972212)

anyone who doesn't care about it won't hold it against you

I've heard horror stories of rabidly anti-MS shops turning away people at stage 1 simply because they listed their MCSE.

Then again, that's not really the kind of place I'd want to work for, anyway...but if I'm desparate for employmend I'd take anything from rabidly anti-MS to rabidly yay-MCSEs.

Remember.. (3, Informative)

schon (31600) | more than 9 years ago | (#11965287)

... when you send money to CompTIA, you're sending money to further software patents [slashdot.org]

Get the Linuxgruven one... (2, Funny)

bergeron76 (176351) | more than 9 years ago | (#11966193)

I achieved mine (legitimately), only to find them go bankrupt as a pyramid scheme a few weeks later.

To I am a Linux Certified Administrator (LCA) - Level 1.

Most highly regarded is still (0, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11966433)

MCSE. Get with the fucking program, and get off Torvald's DICK.

Re:Most highly regarded is still (2, Funny)

Jason Ford (635431) | more than 9 years ago | (#11966627)

MCSE is the most highly regarded certification? Isn't that the one that people often expand to "Minesweeper Certified Solitaire Expert"?

I'm an RHCE... (1)

Malor (3658) | more than 9 years ago | (#11966704)

I took the RHCE course back in the 7.0 days, several years ago. My knowledge isn't current, obviously, but I doubt that a one-week course could have changed amount of content all that substantially.

The way I summed it up at the time is this: An RHCE has a pretty good knowledge of how to run one (Redhat) Linux box. Without other experience, he or she would probably be a perfectly adequate junior admin... not someone you want to give the keys to the server room, but definitely worth having around.

Note that the actual certification test, while reasonably difficult, is fundamentally 'fair'. It's not like real life, where boxes mysteriously fail and don't tell you why. You always have all the information you need to solve a given problem, and the test environment is set up so that some of the more boneheaded things you might do aren't possible. It still takes knowledge and skill to pass the test, but unlike real life, it's not cruel and evil. (at least, it wasn't back in the 7.0 days; they may have gotten eviler since. :) )

Most people who've passed that test have a real clue, and have the potential to be good admins. I would definitely give an RHCE an edge if I were choosing interview candidates.

Unix is an extremely complex environment, one which you can literally spend your entire adult life learning. No cert could possibly substitute for years of battle testing. An RHCE is a great start, but it's only a start.

Go for the RCHE, then even the RCHA (2, Informative)

Drakino (10965) | more than 9 years ago | (#11968264)

I just took the RCHE two weeks ago (and passed with a high score). The current RCHE exam is on RHEL3. Basicially the test goes as follows:

First part is 2.5 hours. You have that much time in front of a box to fix 10 problems. 5 of them are mandatory to fix. They cover many things, and when I took this part, I had no need to really ever use RedHat specific tools.

Second part is 3 hours, and is a network install and configuration of RHEL3. Here you need to know about the installer (duh), and package managment, but that pretty much ends the Red Hat specific part once again. If you admin Linux, and sit down for a few hours with RHEL 3 and the checklist [redhat.com] . and you can pass it.

Honestly, it is one of the better certificaiton exams I have taken, due to it being practical. If they throw you a mail server setup situation, you can use your choice of server if it is in RedHat. You have to be aware of security, but they don't demand a specific method. The end result is you pass if you get the job done, it doesn't matter how.

Now, RCHE is a good first step, however as someone said, it isn't specificially a certificate to prove someone can hand full data center control to you. And let me explain:

RCHT: This is their lowest certification. It means "Hi, I can install Linux and configure some things, but not really do much on the network side". The test for this is embedded in the RCHE test now. Basicially if you don't pass the RCHE, you may still walk away with an RCHT

RCHE: This is the median certification. It means "Hi, I can install Linux, and get basic networking services up and secure. I can also integrate the box into the directory if it is simple".

RCHA: This is the highest level one Red Hat takes, and I would advise to get RCHE first. It is "Hi, I can install Linux, configure network services, design the directory services, secure and tune the box, and expand the box when the time comes. I can layout plans for an entire data center."

Or in Red Hat's words:

RHCEs provide the technical leadership for managing Linux servers and network services, as well as escalation of issues from the larger group of RHCTs. A smaller number of RHCAs provide leadership for technical planning, design and integration of an organization's worldwide open source architecture.

Story about CompTIA (1)

BumbaCLot (472046) | more than 9 years ago | (#11968984)

Linux+ Beta was having a online seminar where the recipients would receive a free voucher to take the test a couple months ago (November I believe). I signed up for the seminar, scheduled an hour off of work to watch it, and was scheduling off time to redeem it. 3 days before the seminar happened, another letter was sent saying they had chosen a webcast provider who would be capable with most modern browsers. Being a Linux+ webcast, I assume I am ok running 3-4 browsers on my GUI.

The day of, they send a systems check link and tell you to log in 15 minutes early. I get home, and it is an executable URL which says they require 2000 or xp. I call Prometric and CompTIA, and they reply how sorry they are for not being able to demo to Linux users. They say a broadcast of the seminar will be available in the next few hours and vouchers will still be available to those who reply.

The next day I log in and see that it is another embedded viewer from the webcasting company that will only run on windows. I wrote them an email asking if anyone in their company knew what Linux was and I would never consider taking one of their tests.

Certifications? (1)

Martin71a (754125) | more than 9 years ago | (#11969453)

Outside of pure Linux is there any certification for just Apache or good training? We are switching from IIS and our server admin barely knows Apache or Linux. We will be using Apache on a Netware box.

Re:Certifications? (1)

ciderpunk (611927) | more than 9 years ago | (#11973812)

Not AFAIK, but apache is really easy to pick up. I learned enough to deploy Apache from the o'reilley book [oreilly.com] in about 4 or 5 working days - including trickier stuff like virtual hosting, getting mod_perl working, et al.

More generally, I guess all this cert stuff is mainly to do with motivation. Sometimes it helps you to focus if you've got some sort of framework to fit your learning into. Personally, I don't find I need that framework for techie learning, but I find it extremely useful when pursuing more academic studies. YMMV ;-)

Really simple. (1)

Facekhan (445017) | more than 9 years ago | (#11971666)

I looked into RHCE recently and even signed up for one of their online classes to fill in my gaps and see what the material was. I am still fairly new to linux. I have played with RedHat and Suse at home and worked on a RH ES3 web server for a few months in my last job but there were a lot of basic things I had never had to learn before.

The online material for the beginnner bundle was $900 and I asked for a refund after going through about half of it in a week and realizing there was not even a full book's worth of information in 4 beginner level flash based classes.

This basically has turned me off the RHCE because the material in their online courses is supposed to be identical to their live classes and this was just terrible.

I think I will go for a vendor neutral cert now. I still think the RHCE is a tough and solid cert but their training material is definitely not worth it IMHO.

I recently passed my CCNP and am working on a CCSP of which I have passed the Secur exam which is the keystone test.

I have been taking Cisco academy courses now for a year either in the evenings or Saturday and the instructor there is probably one of the top network engineers in the country. Among other things he designed the National Guard's network. His advice is when choosing certs is don't waste time and money on the easy ones because they are worthless or soon will be. So the answer to which cert to go for in a particular subject area is "take the hardest one"

Re:Really simple. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11972049)

This basically has turned me off the RHCE because the material in their online courses is supposed to be identical to their live classes and this was just terrible.

Actually they don't have any courses identical to the test or really even all that close because they wish to maintain the credibility of the certification. What they basically do is give you a bullet point of all things that may or may not be covered and take you through them, You could ace the RHCE simply by readin their doc's they say everything on the test will be in there.. question is where, its huge.

Show of hands (1)

seamonster (724131) | more than 9 years ago | (#11974165)

Be interested to know how many of the 'MCSE is easy' crowd actually have one. NT4 doesn't count BTW. Too expensive? Work'll pay for it - it's one of the few certs PHBs recognise and/or understand. Hey, you'll ace them all first time anyway, right?

Training vs. Certification (1)

ca1v1n (135902) | more than 9 years ago | (#11975825)

For many certifications, there's a week or multi-week training process. This training can be incredibly valuable, or useless. The reputation for quality of the training should be a critical consideration in your decision.

What the hell is wrong with you? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11990752)

Why do you only want to be glorified computer janitor? I can't think of a more trivial job, at least manual labour has a bit of dignity associated with it and women will dig your physique after a year or so of woring in the freezer, on the site etc. Systems administration is low status work and only other systems admins will ever admire your efforts (even then given their preponderance of personality flaws in the industry its unlikey). I suggest you acquire a bit of ambition and then rethink where you are going with all this. Administration is a job, barely a trade and certainly not a professional career to aspire to. You're going to hit a pay ceiling pretty damn quick for example (and thats not because you are starting very high either). I don't have a great job, but I guy to yell at the admin guys when they fuck up and demand they come in on the weekend (note: while I'm at home). I still get paid more. Am I brighter than them? No way, I just made smarter moves. If it really makes you happy then do it I guess, but you are being a fool to yourself in the long run.

What I've Seen. . . (1)

MikeDawg (721537) | more than 9 years ago | (#12012059)

What I have seen in SE Michigan, most of the companies looking for IT personnel are going through staffing agencies, headhunters, etc. I got my A+ a couple of months ago, just so my resume looks a little more appealing to the headhunters out there doing searches for local companies. It does matter, and I'm no way embarassed (sp?) I got it, and I put it on my resume. I haven't quite finished off my degree yet, and I got a fair amount of professional experience (4 years or so), and the A+ certification doesn't hurt me in any way, it only helps get noticed by some of the staffers out there.
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  • blockquote
  • div
  • quote
  • ecode

"ecode" can be used for code snippets, for example:

<ecode>    while(1) { do_something(); } </ecode>