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NeroLinux vs. K3b

timothy posted more than 9 years ago | from the ouch dept.

Software 283

An anonymous reader writes "Flexbeta.net compares NeroLinux to K3b under Fedora Core 3. The review notices how NeroLinux does nothing with the eye candy while K3b's GUI is no comparison to NeroLinux. The article also mentions how cumbersome it is to navigate through NeroLinux, also taking note of how long each application takes to accomplish burning tasks."

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NeroLinux ? (-1, Offtopic)

mirko (198274) | more than 9 years ago | (#11952125)

Is it what I think ?
If yes, then I guess, it will have to be renamed unless he wants to know what would have happened to KIllustrator against Adobe...

Re:NeroLinux ? (5, Informative)

Ender_Stonebender (60900) | more than 9 years ago | (#11952129)

No, it isn't what you think. It's just a Linux version of the Nero software, made by the same people who made Nero for Windows. You probably missed it because there weren't very many dupes of it.

--Ender

Re:NeroLinux ? (1)

mirko (198274) | more than 9 years ago | (#11952226)

I also and especially missed it because ti wasn't mentioned in the summary & because the story got Slashdotted before I could post...
But thanks to your answer, I now know what it is and I am glad to see commercial companies porting their products to other platforms.

Re:NeroLinux ? (1)

dleifelohcs (777508) | more than 9 years ago | (#11952133)

Why do you say that? It is manufactured by Ahead, much like the Nero for Windows. Stop, think, and read next time, before posting things like that.

Re:NeroLinux ? (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11952150)

Just FYI, they are called Nero AG now and not Ahead anymore

Re:NeroLinux ? (1)

maubp (303462) | more than 9 years ago | (#11952142)

No - NeroLinux is actually released by Nero themselves:

http://ww2.nero.com/us/NeroLINUX.html

Re:NeroLinux ? (1)

mysticwhiskey (569750) | more than 9 years ago | (#11952146)

I don't know - what are you thinking? NeroLinux is made by Ahead Software (aka makers of Nero).

Re:NeroLinux ? (1)

DarkMantle (784415) | more than 9 years ago | (#11952180)

NeroLinux is made by Ahead Software (aka makers of Nero).

According to the /. post [slashdot.org] Nero is made by Nero. And we know the editors are always right. ;-)

BTW: It bugged me for a while that they don't even know who made the software.

Re:NeroLinux ? (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11952196)

Nero is made by Nero. Ahead Software changed it's name to reflect the name of their product at the beginning of 2005.

Re:NeroLinux ? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11952151)

Well we aren't mindreaders are we?

Re:NeroLinux ? (-1, Flamebait)

northcat (827059) | more than 9 years ago | (#11952197)

Typical slashdotter ignorance and arrogance.

bah (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11952131)

not a comment to be seen and slashdotted already. coral cache stories for f%$k sake.

first... whatever... (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11952132)

First post?

Nice, but does it... (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11952137)

...burn karma?

(frist psot!)

MirrorDot (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11952139)

MirrorDot link [mirrordot.org] . It's not there yet, but let's hope they'll have it mirrored soon...

Re:MirrorDot (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11952154)

not much good if it doesn't mirror anything beyond the first page of the article.

world--

Re:MirrorDot (4, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11952181)

Try this one, the full article.. when it's available..
http://www.flexbeta.net.nyud.net:8090/main/printar ticle.php?id=86 [nyud.net]

mod parent up.. (1)

Henk Poley (308046) | more than 9 years ago | (#11952240)

It is available now.

Re:MirrorDot (1)

northcat (827059) | more than 9 years ago | (#11952185)

Not much use. The article is divided over many pages with a very short introduction page as the first page and mirrordot has mirrored only the first page. The poster could have linked to the printable version, but then the site would have been slashdotted sooner (or not due to the lack of graphics on the printable versions).

FP (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11952141)

Fp: If Nero burnt Rome, what cities would fall under the pawns of k3b (kde estinguish burnouts?)

CD Burning (1)

ectotherm (842918) | more than 9 years ago | (#11952143)

I imagine NERO Linux must have quite the CD burning capability...

Image writing (4, Informative)

LiquidCoooled (634315) | more than 9 years ago | (#11952144)

The article says that:

NeroLinux completed the image in 9 seconds. The file name was saved as music.iso, which I had to add the file extension manually, though it was by default set to .NRG.

Isn't the NRG image format different to ISO, and therefore just renaming the created image just like renaming a jpeg image to GIF?
The burning software may assume the format from the data, but that sounds like bad practice, and definately not advisable.

So, my question, does NeroLinux create true ISO images?

Re:Image writing (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11952167)

I opened a .nrg file with k3b the other day and it reconised it as an iso image, perhaps they are the same thing?

Re:Image writing (2, Interesting)

northcat (827059) | more than 9 years ago | (#11952249)

Parent is not redundant. NRG files may look like ISO files (don't know, haven't tried), but I've seen that NRG files are bigger than a corresponding ISO file. Maybe NRG files contain an ISO + additional information. BTW, on Windows, whenever I've tried renaming NRG files to ISO it hasn't worked.

Re:Image writing (1)

Quinn (4474) | more than 9 years ago | (#11952514)

Same here. Unless things have changed since I last tried a few months ago, K3B does not burn NRG files. And since many, uh, "items" are "distributed" as NRG files, NeroLinux wins for burning ITS OWN FILES.

Re:Image writing (1)

ESqVIP (782999) | more than 9 years ago | (#11952419)

Reading your own quote from the article:

NeroLinux completed the image in 9 seconds. The file name was saved as music.iso, which I had to add the file extension manually, though it was by default set to .NRG.

I'd assume the default format was Nero's format. Then, when the article author changed it to ISO, the application simply removed the .nrg extension from the filename field, without suffixing it with .iso.

Damn! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11952147)

That page got knocked the fuckout!

Long story short.... (5, Informative)

carlmenezes (204187) | more than 9 years ago | (#11952157)

NeroLinux - less options, poor GUI, faster sometimes.
K3B - more options, better GUI, either same speed or slower by a few secs.

Winner - K3B

Conclusion :
Author has no idea why Nero wants users to buy the Windows version so they can use NeroLinux - bad decision because K3B is much better and learning NeroLinux is not worth the time and the money.

Re:Long story short.... (4, Insightful)

LiquidCoooled (634315) | more than 9 years ago | (#11952175)

Do not underestimate the power of Brand recognition.

People moving over from Windows will see the name and know what they are getting.
Lack of options is only a problem for those of us who bother with fussing around.

Most people want to simply create a cd.

Re:Long story short.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11952274)

Most people want to simply create a cd.

That's why I use GNOME integrated burning capabilities... no need to use K3B, so Nero?

Re:Long story short.... (5, Insightful)

mysticwhiskey (569750) | more than 9 years ago | (#11952191)

I agree with your conclusion - K3B > NeroLinux. However, one wouldn't criticize their newly-born child for not being able to run like his years-older brother. See this for what is is - more Linux support from predominantly MS Windows-based vendors.

Re:Long story short.... (2, Interesting)

agurkan (523320) | more than 9 years ago | (#11952454)

Analogies should be used to illustrate and explain a point, not to extrapolate from it or to come to conclusions or to give advice.

It is natural that the GNU/Linux community has higher expectations, and is more critical. Higher expectations is usually what makes people part of this community in the first place. If you want to appeal to this community, you have to play a better ball game. IMHO, the criticism is just and well placed. Most of us will not be content with what Windows users are content with, and it is good to let our voice be heard as much as possible.

Re:Long story short.... (1)

mysticwhiskey (569750) | more than 9 years ago | (#11952574)

Sure, you have a very valid point. My drive is not to strain tenuous analogies beyond their stretching point. Instead it's a desire to see Linux increase in exposure such that we may see the general awareness in Linux being other than a geek's OS (I know it isn't, but think of the masses).

Re:Long story short.... (4, Insightful)

Apreche (239272) | more than 9 years ago | (#11952209)

The reason they want users to buy windows version to use nerolinux is simple. They don't want to go through the effort of making a new scheme to prevent piracy. Instead of having separate buy linux version and buy windows version things with different keys and such. They will just sell keys. You can even think of it as you're not buying the windows version. You're buying a key from ahead that lets you use either version. Also, this way people who already have a windows key can get the linux version for free.

You crazy people think too much into this.

As for k3b and nero yeah, I can see the guys point. But the fact is that nero, unlike the open source burning tools on linux, works no matter what. And it takes advantage of features your burner may have if say, its a fancy plextor. Also, for some things the linux software just doesn't do it. Like mastering and burning video DVDs, in linux there is no easy tool.

Neros advantage is that it works, period. If you think that k3b works period with a full featureset on all hardware then feel free to peruse any distro mailing lists and forums for people who can't get burning to work. Especially of DVDs.

Re:Long story short.... (2, Informative)

RenatoRam (446720) | more than 9 years ago | (#11952310)

"works no matter what" ???

Several people trying the NeroLinux beta reported of multiple ruined cds... when was the last time this happened using native linux tools?

Years ago, I'd guess.

If that's the quality of the fabled NeroAPI I think I'll just stay with cdrecord, thank you...

Re:Long story short.... (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11952414)

Didn't you read the memo? Criticism of commercial applications on Linux is no longer allowed. It might hurt the feelings of the developers.

Re:Long story short.... (1)

Bert64 (520050) | more than 9 years ago | (#11952455)

Well it is a BETA... I'm sure beta versions of native linux tools were just as bad back when they were this new.. It's not fair to compare a beta product to something which has been around a few years..

Re:Long story short.... (1)

Klivian (850755) | more than 9 years ago | (#11952415)

>But the fact is that nero, unlike the open source burning tools
>on linux, works no matter what.
>Neros advantage is that it works, period.
From the article:
Unfortunately, NeroLinux was reluctant in recognizing the DVD-RW drive, after rebooting several times I was able to see the DVD-RW drive. I must note that I had an extremely complicated time working with NeroLinux. Many times it would not recognize any of my drives until I remounted them.

To me that doesn't sound like it works no matter what, so I don't think you can call it an advantage exactly.

Are you a Nero Developer or something? (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11952520)

Because your certainly sound like it.

"Neros advantage is that it works, period. "

Says who? You? It just came out so the jury is definitely out on whether it "just works". Or are you talking about the windows version? Because the linux version is missing much of the windows version functionality. So no, nobody can say it just works quite yet. btw, fancy features? like what? Burn proof? Do you have a list of what Nero can do vs what k3b can't? Because right now that list is title decidedly in k3b's favor.

And while K3b has problems it works for many many users and is currently more full featured than Nerolinux and more imporatnly is Free.

Personally I'm Thrilled with a capital T that Nero ported their app to linux. I think that's awesome. The more desktop apps that are ported to linux the better, free or not.

Re:Long story short.... (2, Insightful)

halivar (535827) | more than 9 years ago | (#11952563)

Neros advantage is that it works, period. If you think that k3b works period with a full featureset on all hardware then feel free to peruse any distro mailing lists and forums for people who can't get burning to work. Especially of DVDs.

So if K3b works on all my systems (and it does), then Nero really doesn't have an advantage at all, does it? I don't really give a crap if Joe-Bob on the Debian list can't get K3b to work; for me, it works, period.

Thanks (1)

nnnneedles (216864) | more than 9 years ago | (#11952212)

I hereby declare that all online reviews must be written like that.

Re:Long story short.... (0)

vleaflet (771463) | more than 9 years ago | (#11952252)

There could've been more software than these two. At least some that would not require the huge KDE system (which might slow things up itself).

Re:Long story short.... (1, Troll)

northcat (827059) | more than 9 years ago | (#11952270)

People are stupid and they'll use Nero because it's commercial and you have to pay for it. Really. I've so many times people on slashdot and other places saying they'll buy something just because it's commercial, without giving any concrete reasons. And also for support.

Re:Long story short.... (1)

Taladar (717494) | more than 9 years ago | (#11952511)

If it worked flawlessly like Nero on Windows does it is worth some money to spare me a whole KDE just to use k3b.

Re:Long story short.... (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11952638)

If it worked flawlessly like Nero on Windows does it is worth some money to spare me a whole KDE just to use k3b.

k3b doesn't need 'a whole KDE', just kdelibs and kdebase.

Re:Long story short.... (1)

srid (864845) | more than 9 years ago | (#11952356)

Author has no idea why Nero wants users to buy the Windows version so they can use NeroLinux - bad decision because K3B is much better and learning NeroLinux is not worth the time and the money. NeroLinux has packet-writing support, which is much useful when you want to use your 700MB CDRW like a floppy.

Re:Long story short.... (1)

gallir (171727) | more than 9 years ago | (#11952597)

k3b also supports packet-writing.

Re:Long story short.... (1)

Bert64 (520050) | more than 9 years ago | (#11952621)

The kernel has packet writing too, or atleast patches exist, so you can actually mount it and copy files straight onto it like a floppy..

Re:Long story short.... (1)

makomk (752139) | more than 9 years ago | (#11952641)

You can get packet writing to CD-RWs on Linux with open-surce software - if you install the right kernel patch, pktcdvd, then create a pktcdvd block device, you can mount it read-write as a UDF filesystem and access it "just like a floppy". Sadly, it doesn't support CD-Rs

It's a bit tricky to find the patch and the utility to create the device node - there's a SourceForge page, but that's years out of date. Take a look at the mailing list [suse.com] .

You assume quite a bit. (1)

geminidomino (614729) | more than 9 years ago | (#11952642)

K3B requires KDE,or the libraries, at least. I don't have them installed, nor do I have any intention of doing so.(When it came time to install bloated frameworks, gnome won.) If Nero doesn't, it wins (but still loses to the command line)

What is K3b? What is NeroLinux? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11952165)

Another submission with no information. Keep up the good work.

Re:What is K3b? What is NeroLinux? (4, Funny)

advocate_one (662832) | more than 9 years ago | (#11952221)

Another submission with no information. Keep up the good work.

You must be new around here... if you don't know what K3b is then you can't be a true geek...

Re:What is K3b? What is NeroLinux? (2, Insightful)

akzeac (862521) | more than 9 years ago | (#11952600)

There are some of us happy enough with mkisofs and cdrecord :]

Before the site gets burned...too late (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11952166)

NeroLinux vs K3b
Posted by Gsurface on 15 Mar 2005 - 18:53 Introduction

This week Ahead Nero introduced a Linux version of their popular CD burning application dubbed NeroLinux. NeroLinux promises to bring the great features found in the Windows version to the Linux domain. Though the Windows version of Nero is loved by many, how well does NeroLinux stack up against already existing CD Burning applications such as K3b? K3b's user interface is neat and full of eye candy, while Nero leans towards a more standard look; leaving aside looks for functionality. Though NeroLinux is "free" of cost, users still need to purchase version of Nero 6 for Windows to download NeroLinux. NeroLinux is provided as RPM or Debian package where as K3b is completely free and provides multiple Linux installation packages.

The test machine used for this review consists of the following:
Fedora Core 3
Abit Guru AV8 Chipset
AMD Athlon64 3500
1GB DDR 3200 RAM
Sony CD-RW Drive
Pioneer DVD-RW



Look and Feel

Look and Feel
No doubt about it, K3b offers a more pleasing look by using more eye candy than NeroLinux. Navigating into the preferences of each application, we can see how K3b's user interface is much cleaner and easier to navigate. The options in K3b are aligned as icons on the left hand side of the window, making each task recognizable. NeroLinux preferences window shows each section as tabs on the upper side. Though NeroLinux's GUI is simple, the preferences are still easy to navigate.

K3b Preferences and NeroLinux Preferences

K3b's main window presents the user with multiple CD burning scenarios to choose from including Audio CD Project, Data CD Project, DVD Data Project and CD Copying; getting straight to the point by presenting to the user its abilities. NeroLinux however, does not present the user with any type of wizard or options as far as what the user wishes to do. The user is simply presented with the main window to drag and drop files. The Windows version of Nero presents the user with a window of options as to what the user wishes to do: burn a data CD, music CD and so on. Why NeroLinux was not giving this same capability as the Windows version may have been because this is just the first release of NeroLinux. The fact that K3b presents the user with the options noted earlier makes it much easier to navigate than NeroLinux.

K3b Main Window, NeroLinux Main Window and Nero 6 Main Window


Features

Features
Both K3b and NeroLinux are able to handle both CD-R media and DVD media. K3b goes beyond your regular CD Burning suite by bundling a video encoding feature. K3b lets you rip a DVD movie and convert it into an AVI file for burning on regular CD-R media. NeroLinux does not include any type of video encoding feature. Under the burning properties section of K3b, the typical options are found such as the ability to simulate a recording session, write on the fly, create an image of the compilation only, and the ability to verify the written data; which most of the times is recommended. K3b also allows for multisessions, which means you can keep adding files to the same CD at a later time. NeroLinux's burning option also features the ability to simulate a recording session as well as verifying the written data on the disc. Other options such as creating a bootable disc and the option to finalize a disc are available on NeroLinux.

K3b and NeroLinux Burning Options

Both NeroLinux and K3b allow for burning an image of a CD, however, K3b's user interface is much neater and presents the user with more useful options than NeroLinux. K3b options allow for burning multiple copies of the image, setting the speed at which to burn the image and the ability to verify the written data. Though NeroLinux allows for these settings also, they are not presented to the user within the same window such as K3b.

K3b and NeroLinux Image Burning Options

Burning Capabilities

Burning Capabilities
In order to test how fast and how effective each application can burn. Unfortunately, I was limited to testing different types of burning scenarios such as image creation and music CD creation due to NeroLinux's lack of these features. The only test I could run in order to test both applications as far as functionality and speed were image burning and creation, CD copying and DVD-RW erasing. Another type of test I wanted to run included music burning, and creating DVD videos from MPEG files.

Image Burning
I downloaded an ISO image of Fedora Core 3 CD1, which size is 617MB. Using NeroLinux to burn the ISO image, the draw back I saw to this process was what I already mentioned before: that NeroLinux gives minimal options during this process. It would be nice to be able to select the write speed and if I want to verify the written data on the CD. The entire burn process took 2 minutes and 49 seconds using the maximum speed of the drive 52X.

Not only does K3b give much more options while burning a CD image, it also shows you details of the image such as file size, system ID, volume ID and much more. The entire burn process did however take seconds longer than NeroLinux. K3b was able to burn the ISO image in 2 minutes 57 seconds, falling just 8 seconds flat or NeroLinux's burn time. K3b also plays a nifty chant once the burning is done.

Image Creation
Using a few files collected from an old archive, I placed them in a folder and ran NeroLinux and opted for an image recorder. The folder size that I was going to create an image of consisted of 19 files totaling 134.4MB.
NeroLinux completed the image in 9 seconds. The file name was saved as music.iso, which I had to add the file extension manually, though it was by default set to .NRG.

K3b took exactly 9 seconds to create the image.

CD Copying
CD copying consist of making a backup of your CD collection. Since I already burned Fedora in the previous test, I opted to use the burned CDs and create backups of them. Using the DVD-RW drive as the writer, and the Sony drive as the reader, I loaded NeroLinux.

Unfortunately, NeroLinux was reluctant in recognizing the DVD-RW drive, after rebooting several times I was able to see the DVD-RW drive. I must note that I had an extremely complicated time working with NeroLinux. Many times it would not recognize any of my drives until I remounted them. It is a somewhat cumbersome to get the CD Copy feature to work correctly in NeroLinux, but eventually, I got it to work. NeroLinux completed the disc copying process in 6 minutes and 47 seconds. It must be noted that NeroLinux first copied the contents of the CD to the hard drive, and then burned the contents to the disc.

Loading K3b's CD Copying feature is a snap. The user does not have to run around in circles like with NeroLinux in order to choose the source CD and the destination or drive which will be doing the writing. K3b accomplished the copying in 6 minutes 26 seconds, about 20 seconds sooner than NeroLinux; as if looking and working better wasn't enough, K3b has also burned faster.

DVD-RW Erasing
I had a spare of DVD-RW lying around so I loaded one with random files which totaled 754MB in order to erase the data using NeroLinux and K3b.

Using the quick erase option under NeroLinux, all the contents on the disc were removed in 35 seconds.

K3b lasted nearly as much with 40 seconds to clear the disc of its data.


Burning Capabilities

Conclusion
Something that strikes me as odd is how Ahead is actually distributing NeroLinux. According to the NeroLinux website, you must already own a copy of Nero 6 in order to download NeroLinux for free. What are they actually trying to suggest with this? That every Linux user who wishes to use NeroLinux first purchase a copy of the Windows version of Nero to then be able to obtain a copy of NeroLinux? That doesn't quiet make much sense to me, or the penguin.

Nero may have its fans in the Windows world, but NeroLinux is not going to win many in the Linux domain. NeroLinux is just not worth the time to learn how to use or even download while K3b is still around. K3b offers much more for your money; well, in this case, for no money. The point is that K3b is completely free, has tons more features than NeroLinux, a much cleaner and nicer GUI, and is more productive than NeroLinux. Though this article may sound like a bashing of NeroLinux, the bashing was not done by the author, the bashing was done simply by a champion named K3b. It is surprising how this awesomely CD burning suite has not been ported to run on Windows; for it would also give the Windows version of Linux a run for its money; or at least a tie. Hands down, K3b is just a more powerful CD burning application than NeroLinux. A Linux player who is currently interested in using NeroLinux should consider K3b instead, and for those wise ones which already house K3b, good call, stay where you are.

There is more information on NeroLinux here [nero.com] , and for K3b, visit the official website here [k3b.org] .

Too Late (2, Insightful)

maizena (640458) | more than 9 years ago | (#11952170)

If Ahead had released NeroLinux 2 or 3 years ago, there would have been a maket for it. At that time there were no easy to use GUI CD/DVD burner apps for linux. Today K3b has the user base that would care for a "nero for linux".

Re:Too Late (2)

flajann (658201) | more than 9 years ago | (#11952208)

A day late, a dollar short. K3b rocks. They should've focused their efforts on new functionality.

On the other hand, we don't want to discouarge developers from porting their apps to Linux. If anything, we should be encouarging them all the more. Having "too many" apps on Linux would be a Good Thing.

Yet another search portal [searchborg.com]

Re:Too Late (0)

Taladar (717494) | more than 9 years ago | (#11952538)

K3b should focus on getting rid of KDE dependencies and they would have almost all CD-burning Linux Users as Userbase. As it is I am not installing KDE for a single program.

K3b on Windows? (2, Informative)

QuantumG (50515) | more than 9 years ago | (#11952189)

Wow, there's almost a good suggestion in that biased review. He wonders why K3b hasn't been ported to Windows. Presumably it is because writing to a CD/DVD on Windows is completely different to Linux. Or simply because the developers of K3b don't care about Windows.

Re:K3b on Windows? (5, Insightful)

Jonny_eh (765306) | more than 9 years ago | (#11952217)

I doubt the reason is because of CD burning in windows. K3b is merely a frontend for the command line tools cdrecord and cdrdao, and both have been ported to Windows.

It's probably not on windows for the same reason that hardly any other KDE/QT apps are on windows. And that reason escapes me, I always assumed it's was a Trolltech QT licensing issue (which shouldn't be a problem anymore). Why is it that Gaim is available in windows but K3b is not? Why is openoffice available, but not koffice? I think this hurts the KDE apps quite a bit. GTK is getting much more coverage in windows.

Re:K3b on Windows? (3, Informative)

cozziewozzie (344246) | more than 9 years ago | (#11952291)

There is no GPL version of Qt for windows, that's why many things don't get ported.

This will change with the new Qt 4.0 and KDE 4.0 which is based on it. Qt4 will come with a full GPL version for windows.

Re:K3b on Windows? (1)

mysticwhiskey (569750) | more than 9 years ago | (#11952300)

I'll definately join. Were do I sine up?

Re:K3b on Windows? (5, Funny)

ceeam (39911) | more than 9 years ago | (#11952329)


I'll definately join. Were do I sine up?

If you find out let me know too. I would cosine. ;)

Re:K3b on Windows? (4, Funny)

Ford Prefect (8777) | more than 9 years ago | (#11952444)

If you find out let me know too. I would cosine. ;)

At which point, the discussion goes off on a tangent...

Re:K3b on Windows? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11952618)

At which point, the discussion goes off on a tangent...

At least we're still talking about software on x86. Arch-tangents can get pretty messy.

Re:K3b on Windows? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11952376)

From 0 to pi/2. Then you sine down, until 3*pi/2.

Re:K3b on Windows? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11952390)

Gaim doesn't use QT it uses gtk. I belive open office is the same.

Re:K3b on Windows? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11952395)

Well, Psi, the famous Jabber client, is available for Windows and it's a Qt application.

Several things... (1)

Kjella (173770) | more than 9 years ago | (#11952599)

Qt is commercial or GPL, GTK is LGPL. In additon, there have been other releases, like Qt Non-commercial 3.2 which complicates it a bit further. In addition, the GPL version has been Linux/Mac only. The upcoming Qt 4.0 will be GPL (or commercial) under Windows.

Basicly, I think the K* apps are more interested in integrating themselves with KDE, whilr gaim/openoffice is much more targetted at being cross-platform. Now, which is better is a matter of discussion. Macs have lived (or is that "dying"?) with their completely own integrated app suite for decades.

I'm not so sure it hurts KDE/Qt as you are. To put it this way, I'd rather run GTK apps from a KDE desktop than the other way around :). Of course, showing off some good KDE apps wouldn't hurt, but it is much easier to switch between *nix systems than it is to make the "big jump" from Windows.

Kjella

Re:K3b on Windows? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11952624)

wrong, there is gpl version of qt-3.3 for windows, but its not developed by trolltech....
check out http://kde-cygwin.sourceforge.net/qt3-win32/

Re:K3b on Windows? (1)

dsginter (104154) | more than 9 years ago | (#11952234)

Or simply because the developers of K3b don't care about Windows.

If they care about Linux, then they will work to get a standard set of cross-platform apps. In this respect, users can move to these apps under Windows and then simply switch the OS when they are comfortable with them.

Re:K3b on Windows? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11952549)

Oh please.. enough with that BS

Switching Platforms (3, Insightful)

N8F8 (4562) | more than 9 years ago | (#11952194)

I would surmise the purpose of NeroLinux is to give an alternative to platform switchers so they can use somthing similar to their Windows product. It would a be a prudent move for Nero to keep their base for the cost of doing the parallel development. A better comparison would be between the Windows version and the Linux version from a user's standpoint.

Re:Switching Platforms (1)

liquidpele (663430) | more than 9 years ago | (#11952218)


Thank you for not bashing Nero for it not being up to k3b's standards. And frankly, I put nero on everyone's windows computer I set up, so if I start switching people to linux, I may use the nero software. One less thing for them to relearn.

Re:Switching Platforms (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11952241)

You will have relearn anyway. The only thing common between Nero and NeroLinux is the brand. They are different applications from users POV.

So while you are relearning, why not use better tool?

Re:Switching Platforms (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11952259)

So you openly admit to pirating software, or do you buy a license each time you install it?

Re:Switching Platforms (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11952565)

Reader: Please note that on slashdot "bashed" translates into normal English as "fairly critising something I like and recommending something I don't"

NeroLinux vs K3B (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11952203)

Introduction

This week Ahead Nero introduced a Linux version of their popular CD burning application dubbed NeroLinux. NeroLinux promises to bring the great features found in the Windows version to the Linux domain. Though the Windows version of Nero is loved by many, how well does NeroLinux stack up against already existing CD Burning applications such as K3b? K3b's user interface is neat and full of eye candy, while Nero leans towards a more standard look; leaving aside looks for functionality. Though NeroLinux is "free" of cost, users still need to purchase version of Nero 6 for Windows to download NeroLinux. NeroLinux is provided as RPM or Debian package where as K3b is completely free and provides multiple Linux installation packages.

The test machine used for this review consists of the following:
Fedora Core 3
Abit Guru AV8 Chipset
AMD Athlon64 3500
1GB DDR 3200 RAM
Sony CD-RW Drive
Pioneer DVD-RW

Look and Feel

Look and Feel
No doubt about it, K3b offers a more pleasing look by using more eye candy than NeroLinux. Navigating into the preferences of each application, we can see how K3b's user interface is much cleaner and easier to navigate. The options in K3b are aligned as icons on the left hand side of the window, making each task recognizable. NeroLinux preferences window shows each section as tabs on the upper side. Though NeroLinux's GUI is simple, the preferences are still easy to navigate.

K3b Preferences and NeroLinux Preferences

K3b's main window presents the user with multiple CD burning scenarios to choose from including Audio CD Project, Data CD Project, DVD Data Project and CD Copying; getting straight to the point by presenting to the user its abilities. NeroLinux however, does not present the user with any type of wizard or options as far as what the user wishes to do. The user is simply presented with the main window to drag and drop files. The Windows version of Nero presents the user with a window of options as to what the user wishes to do: burn a data CD, music CD and so on. Why NeroLinux was not giving this same capability as the Windows version may have been because this is just the first release of NeroLinux. The fact that K3b presents the user with the options noted earlier makes it much easier to navigate than NeroLinux.

K3b Main Window, NeroLinux Main Window and Nero 6 Main Window

Features

Features
Both K3b and NeroLinux are able to handle both CD-R media and DVD media. K3b goes beyond your regular CD Burning suite by bundling a video encoding feature. K3b lets you rip a DVD movie and convert it into an AVI file for burning on regular CD-R media. NeroLinux does not include any type of video encoding feature. Under the burning properties section of K3b, the typical options are found such as the ability to simulate a recording session, write on the fly, create an image of the compilation only, and the ability to verify the written data; which most of the times is recommended. K3b also allows for multisessions, which means you can keep adding files to the same CD at a later time. NeroLinux's burning option also features the ability to simulate a recording session as well as verifying the written data on the disc. Other options such as creating a bootable disc and the option to finalize a disc are available on NeroLinux.

K3b and NeroLinux Burning Options

Both NeroLinux and K3b allow for burning an image of a CD, however, K3b's user interface is much neater and presents the user with more useful options than NeroLinux. K3b options allow for burning multiple copies of the image, setting the speed at which to burn the image and the ability to verify the written data. Though NeroLinux allows for these settings also, they are not presented to the user within the same window such as K3b.

K3b and NeroLinux Image Burning Options

Burning Capabilities

Burning Capabilities
In order to test how fast and how effective each application can burn. Unfortunately, I was limited to testing different types of burning scenarios such as image creation and music CD creation due to NeroLinux's lack of these features. The only test I could run in order to test both applications as far as functionality and speed were image burning and creation, CD copying and DVD-RW erasing. Another type of test I wanted to run included music burning, and creating DVD videos from MPEG files.

Image Burning
I downloaded an ISO image of Fedora Core 3 CD1, which size is 617MB. Using NeroLinux to burn the ISO image, the draw back I saw to this process was what I already mentioned before: that NeroLinux gives minimal options during this process. It would be nice to be able to select the write speed and if I want to verify the written data on the CD. The entire burn process took 2 minutes and 49 seconds using the maximum speed of the drive 52X.

Not only does K3b give much more options while burning a CD image, it also shows you details of the image such as file size, system ID, volume ID and much more. The entire burn process did however take seconds longer than NeroLinux. K3b was able to burn the ISO image in 2 minutes 57 seconds, falling just 8 seconds flat or NeroLinux's burn time. K3b also plays a nifty chant once the burning is done.

Image Creation
Using a few files collected from an old archive, I placed them in a folder and ran NeroLinux and opted for an image recorder. The folder size that I was going to create an image of consisted of 19 files totaling 134.4MB.
NeroLinux completed the image in 9 seconds. The file name was saved as music.iso, which I had to add the file extension manually, though it was by default set to .NRG.

K3b took exactly 9 seconds to create the image.

CD Copying
CD copying consist of making a backup of your CD collection. Since I already burned Fedora in the previous test, I opted to use the burned CDs and create backups of them. Using the DVD-RW drive as the writer, and the Sony drive as the reader, I loaded NeroLinux.

Unfortunately, NeroLinux was reluctant in recognizing the DVD-RW drive, after rebooting several times I was able to see the DVD-RW drive. I must note that I had an extremely complicated time working with NeroLinux. Many times it would not recognize any of my drives until I remounted them. It is a somewhat cumbersome to get the CD Copy feature to work correctly in NeroLinux, but eventually, I got it to work. NeroLinux completed the disc copying process in 6 minutes and 47 seconds. It must be noted that NeroLinux first copied the contents of the CD to the hard drive, and then burned the contents to the disc.

Loading K3b's CD Copying feature is a snap. The user does not have to run around in circles like with NeroLinux in order to choose the source CD and the destination or drive which will be doing the writing. K3b accomplished the copying in 6 minutes 26 seconds, about 20 seconds sooner than NeroLinux; as if looking and working better wasn't enough, K3b has also burned faster.

DVD-RW Erasing
I had a spare of DVD-RW lying around so I loaded one with random files which totaled 754MB in order to erase the data using NeroLinux and K3b.

Using the quick erase option under NeroLinux, all the contents on the disc were removed in 35 seconds.

K3b lasted nearly as much with 40 seconds to clear the disc of its data.

Burning Capabilities

Conclusion
Something that strikes me as odd is how Ahead is actually distributing NeroLinux. According to the NeroLinux website, you must already own a copy of Nero 6 in order to download NeroLinux for free. What are they actually trying to suggest with this? That every Linux user who wishes to use NeroLinux first purchase a copy of the Windows version of Nero to then be able to obtain a copy of NeroLinux? That doesn't quiet make much sense to me, or the penguin.

Nero may have its fans in the Windows world, but NeroLinux is not going to win many in the Linux domain. NeroLinux is just not worth the time to learn how to use or even download while K3b is still around. K3b offers much more for your money; well, in this case, for no money. The point is that K3b is completely free, has tons more features than NeroLinux, a much cleaner and nicer GUI, and is more productive than NeroLinux. Though this article may sound like a bashing of NeroLinux, the bashing was not done by the author, the bashing was done simply by a champion named K3b. It is surprising how this awesomely CD burning suite has not been ported to run on Windows; for it would also give the Windows version of Linux a run for its money; or at least a tie. Hands down, K3b is just a more powerful CD burning application than NeroLinux. A Linux player who is currently interested in using NeroLinux should consider K3b instead, and for those wise ones which already house K3b, good call, stay where you are.

There is more information on NeroLinux here, and for K3b, visit the official website here.

Re:NeroLinux vs K3B (1)

sygin (659338) | more than 9 years ago | (#11952485)

The only problem I have with K3B is that it can't copy multi-track CD's. (eg. SVCD disk) This was the case around 3 months ago - has it changed?

EROLinux? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11952227)

w00t? EROLinux? now that's burning

Don't beat up on Ahead. . . (5, Insightful)

episodic (791532) | more than 9 years ago | (#11952232)

1st - this isn't about the article submitted to Slashdot. This is more a response to individual comments that I've seen posted here so far and across the internet: As I've used open source products, I keep seeing the same old arguments. One of those arguments is that we need commercial developers for Linux. Lo and behold when a commercial developer ante's up and makes product for Linux - they are beat up for their decision. Suddenly we hear about the commercial software: 1. That's fine but it isn't open sourced. 2. Bahhh we have an opensource equivalent already. 3. It doesn't work on my weird (read low marketshare) version of Linux. I'm sure there are other reasons, but it is early. Why can't we be positive? Why can't we embrace Ahead for their efforts and simply say - Good Job on your (read) 1st version? I'm sure if they didn't get bad press and beat up over their decision, there might be 'future' versions. Also, for all you 'we need to convert the windows world' - having NERO available is like a warm familiar blanket to many windows users. Don't worry ppl - other developers read slashdot - and they are probably thinking - why even bother to develop for the platform when they are likely to get negative press for their effort. Remember, it's not about comparison to existing free as beer linux apps - this is a commercial prodcut that will live or die on it's own merits.

Re:Don't beat up on Ahead. . . (0, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11952378)

So what you are saying is we should all rush out and buy commercial Linux applications that are not as good as free open source applications? That they should be excempt from critism because they gave it a go? Do me a favour! If it is to live and die by it's own merits then surely competing with the open source alternatives and coping with critism is part of that.

NeroLINUX (5, Interesting)

Silwenae (514138) | more than 9 years ago | (#11952248)

I can't complain about NeroLINUX - it worked for me just fine. Because of my job, I have a couple copies of Nero for Windows, so it was easy for me to download the .deb and pop a key in.

I'm running Ubuntu - as a Gnome only user, I'd rather install Nero than K3B and not have to worry about all the KDE libraries, especially as they're unsupported in Ubuntu. Yes, I know running Ubuntu is my personal choice, as is running only Gnome.

But you know what? Nero worked, and it worked just fine. I'm either burning audio CDs or ISOs of linux distributions, and it does the job. Most Gnome CD burning apps are still in development (don't get me going on XCDRoast) and Coaster [coaster-burn.org] is still in active development. I may be lucky that I had a couple Nero keys laying around, but I'm not going to be disappointed by any commerical company releasing an application for linux if it helps linux as a whole - and I think Nero helps. Sure, it's GTK1 and it's kind of ugly (GTK 2 please!) and it's not HIG compliant, but it IS their first relase version for Linux, and they were kind enough to release RPMs AND debs - usually you only see RPMs from a commerical vendor it seems.

Re:NeroLINUX (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11952306)

Yes, the article was a little high on attitude and low on facts. I'm glad there is a Doom 3 linux executable even if I have to "buy the Windows version". Nero will apparently do a DVD project but I would have liked to know whether it installs programs for DVD-R and DVD+R or what. Currently, as a Gnome person, I'm using X-CDRoast for CDs and doing DVD+R command line with growisofs. That could be improved.

Re:NeroLINUX (1)

advocate_one (662832) | more than 9 years ago | (#11952410)

Currently, as a Gnome person, I'm using X-CDRoast for CDs and doing DVD+R command line with growisofs. That could be improved.

Or you could swallow your pride and install K3b and the necessary KDE libs... you do not have to have the KDE desktop installed to use K3b... I know, I have Ubuntu installed and use K3b for burning CDs.

Re:NeroLINUX (1)

BenjyD (316700) | more than 9 years ago | (#11952320)

GNOMEbaker and Graveman look pretty good GNOME cd-burning applications. I've only used them for simple stuff so far, though.

NegroLinux (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11952250)

For the Black Pimp Hat operating system.

Go K3B!! (1)

filesiteguy (695431) | more than 9 years ago | (#11952258)

I love this quote

Hands down, K3b is just a more powerful CD burning application than NeroLinux. A Linux player who is currently interested in using NeroLinux should consider K3b instead, and for those wise ones which already house K3b, good call, stay where you are.

One of the "killer apps" I find on Linux (KDE) is the K3B application. I very much like it for DVD/CD burning over the lowly Roxio and Nero apps I have on Windows.

I'm to the point of frustration at work where I have to downgrade to WinXP and use something less than K3b.

Not everyone wants KDE (0)

DeBaas (470886) | more than 9 years ago | (#11952307)


Not bashing KDE here, but I don't run KDE on every machine. On PC's without KDE I now use xcdroast, which ain't to great IMHO.

Still, I don't see myself buying Nero, but as it is often included with DVD/CD writers, I would like it if they also included a linux version

Linux program comparisons... (1)

Team_Peppy (805821) | more than 9 years ago | (#11952273)

Progress is beautiful! We are evolving from Linux distro comparisons to Linux program comparisons. The evolution of Linux is simply beautiful!! Keep up the good work.

only reason to ... (1)

Sfing_ter (99478) | more than 9 years ago | (#11952275)

the only reason to use Nero over K3b would have been nero's vision express product for creating vcd/dvds in a very easy manner, this not being included does not make me want the nero product.

cdrecord ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11952286)

my command line roasts a CD every time

NeroLinux: PI/PO Reporting? (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11952391)

Does NeroLinux support PI/PO error detection?

If so, this could be an advantage over K3B. There's no free software that detects PI/PO errors.

PI/PO refer to when erasure codes need to recover from scratches etc. and also when the erasure codes are not enough.

Simply reading/MD5ing a DVD is not enough. PI/PO readings will tell you how long you can expect that disk to last. Periodic checking of the disks will tell you when you should reburn/move to different media.

Karma Whoring for Anonymous Coward (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11952404)

Coral Link [nyud.net]

Not a very objective review? (5, Interesting)

packman (156280) | more than 9 years ago | (#11952425)

I read the article, and really got the impression that the author was a frequent K3B user, and didn't give Nero a chance. On windows, I always liked the Nero interface, simple, clean, not too much bullshit (or what the author calls "eyecandy"). It seems the linux version is more limited, but it's a good start, it supports things K3B (cdrecord etc) don't support, like CDwriting without scsi-emulation support, it should support USB writers without too much hassle (don't know what the status is on that-one with CDRecord etc). That has not been covered at all, and basicly the main bad thing about NeroLinux according to the author is that he likes the K3B interface more...

Also nero's licencing may be strange, but don't forget that a lot of CDwriters bundle Nero 6 with em. Most people using Nero in windows got it together with their writer. I myself have 3 or 4 official Nero cd's. It's nice that they also want to deliver a linux version in such scenario. Also another big point there is, you have to register, so they can very well track how many users are actually interested, it's their first time that they make a linux version, if they have enough interest, they probably will continue the development and start supporting it officially.

I do like K3B simply because it works, and the whole family can work with it, it's the perfect example for the dummy-user application in Linux, and it simply works, but I remember the times where I still prefered to use cdrecord on commanline than starting K3B, and it had to come a long way... Right now - K3B is high quality software, but there were times where the picture was different.

This is Ahead's first attempt to release linux software, and no instability was encountered. They should be encouraged, it took balls to do this - but reviews like this won't encourage or convince other software firms to write software for linux. Yes there is a lot of "free" software, but a lot of companies can't go without support or reliable and supported windows interoperability - preferably the same software running on Windows & Linux, so they don't have to train their personell to use new and different software.

Also a lot of software is almost not available for linux, like project management software, decent cross-platform agenda sharing. PLEASE don't mention Sunbird, it sucks - we tried it - and lost all agenda's doing so, suddenly all files on webdav were truncated to 0-byte size, after which sunbird freaked out and could not recover. Also it's way to complicated to setup, you need to do extensive configuration in apache, webdav and the client side (which is the worst thing). Sure - one day it will be better, but as long as you don't have these things, no company will completely switch over to linux. Yes there are other packages doing this kind of stuff in linux, but the support in windows is or unexisting or extremely limited. This is a giant step forward for Ahead, way to go I say!

Re:Not a very objective review? (3, Informative)

gallir (171727) | more than 9 years ago | (#11952639)

> It seems the linux version is more limited, but it's a good start, it supports things K3B (cdrecord etc) don't support, like CDwriting without scsi-emulation support

FUD, of course it works without SCSI emulation. I would say right now is already a requirement.

> Also nero's licencing may be strange,

Comparing to k3b, of course, the last is free software.

> Also a lot of software is almost not available for linux

Off-topic in the Nero/k3b on GNU/Linux issue. You cannot have k3b in Windows, neither kd3, or amarok, lot of software. So, I don't understant you point.

It had to be said (0, Redundant)

Danathar (267989) | more than 9 years ago | (#11952516)

I for one welcome our new overlord CD/DVD rom burning masters...

I'll stick with K3B (4, Interesting)

ajs318 (655362) | more than 9 years ago | (#11952586)

NeroLinux is no good to me, I'm afraid. Not only is my new PC 64-bit, but I have made a conscious decision to run only OSI-certified software on it. Think of it as a kind of software analogue of vegetarianism, without the mortality-denial.

So I'm sticking with K3B. It's quite simply the most user-friendly piece of software ever written for any platform. If there's any guessing to be done, K3B does it rather than leaving you to do it. And at the end of the burn, it even shows you what commands you could have typed in an XTerm to accomplish the same effect {because of course that's what it's been doing anyway}. I think this is a great way to re-introduce the command line. GCombust, which I used to use on my old Mandrake 8.2 box, did pretty much the same thing, but used GTK1.2.

As for why there is no Win3B ..... that's anybody's guess. Though an ejectable LiveCD with Linux and K3B probably would suffice {if someone's got a DVD-writer, the chances are good that they will have enough RAM for this to work. Can Linux mount a Windows swap partition?} One day, I've promised myself, I'll get into making bootdisks ..... I've already done a Gentoo Stage One install, there's not much else that can be any harder! Maybe a K3B liveCD would be a good first project.

Let's not forget Fireburner! (1)

Danathar (267989) | more than 9 years ago | (#11952587)

If you count the number of LINUX CDrom burning applications that are NOT frontend to command line tools then the only other comparison would be to IgD's Fireburner at www.fireburner.com

Yes...it's shareware. I've suggested that he should probably just release the LINUX version of Fireburner as freeware but I have yet to fully convince him.

Basically....fireburner is small, fast and does the job. Give it a try!

Does NeroLinux burns CDs on a LG-DVDRAM Drive? (1)

FZer0 (585622) | more than 9 years ago | (#11952683)

This is a major bug on K3B. It's possible to burn CDs normally with cdrecord or any other front-end that allows me to edit the cdrecord options manually (i.e. gcombust), but K3B simply says that my drive (LG DVD-RAM 4160b) can write DVDs but doesn't know how to burn CDs. Really annoying.
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