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Major Hangups Over the iPod Phone

Hemos posted more than 9 years ago

Portables (Apple) 432

chadwick writes "It seemed like a sure thing: the iPod mobile phone. What could be more irresistible than a device combining the digital-music prowess of Apple Computer (AAPL) with the wireless expertise of Motorola (MOT)? Motorola sent its buzz machinery into overdrive in January when it leaked word that the product would debut at a cellular-industry conference in New Orleans in mid-March. Well, hold the phone. At the New Orleans confab, a frustrated Edward Zander, Motorola's chief executive, stood before a roomful of analysts and reporters and said the handset's debut would have to wait. "

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Pre announcements (5, Interesting)

BWJones (18351) | more than 9 years ago | (#12041925)

At the New Orleans confab, a frustrated Edward Zander, Motorola's chief executive, stood before a roomful of analysts and reporters and said the handset's debut would have to wait. "

Showing precisely why pre-announcement of products only leads to problems, frustrations, and customer dissatisfaction.

Only announce products when they are done and ready to ship and you avoid this sort of garbage. Everybody is speculating on just what the hold-up is. It could be that the phone is not ready or that the wireless carriers are trying to extract every last cent out of somebody else's (Apple and Motorola) hard earned work. But the point is that there is now a consumer expectation and they are complaining to Apple and Motorola saying "why can't you get your $#!t together and release the product?" when it may actually be the fault of Verizon, Cingular et. al. The problem of course is that on sales of the songs themselves, Apple's profit is next to nothing. So having other companies try and muscle in on very thin margins means 1) either somebody has to take it in the shorts or 2) we all lose. Of course if the record labels would allow more access to the music for Internet delivery, it would be treated as the commodity it really is and there would be more room for profits from higher volume, but that is another post.

Oh, and it would be nice if people who are submitting articles would actually summarize the story rather than posting verbatim what the writer of the referenced article says.

Re:Pre announcements (4, Interesting)

tha_mink (518151) | more than 9 years ago | (#12041971)

"Only announce products when they are done and ready to ship and you avoid this sort of garbage. Everybody is speculating on just what the hold-up is. It could be that the phone is not ready or that the wireless carriers are trying to extract every last cent out of somebody else's (Apple and Motorola) hard earned work. But the point is that there is now a consumer expectation and they are complaining to Apple and Motorola saying "why can't you get your $#!t together and release the product?" when it may actually be the fault of Verizon, Cingular et. al. The problem of course is that on sales of the songs themselves, Apple's profit is next to nothing. So having other companies try and muscle in on very thin margins means 1) either somebody has to take it in the shorts or 2) we all lose. Of course if the record labels would allow more access to the music for Internet delivery, it would be treated as the commodity it really is and there would be more room for profits from higher volume, but that is another post."

But then you forget how the market reacts. You pre-announce a product, or an idea, and when it makes sense and gets buzz, your stock goes up. But when you announce you need more time, nothing bad happens. (or at least you don't lose your previous gains) So, when you need capital to do such a thing, you pre-announce. Nobody gets hurt...you'll get your iPod phone soon enough, if of course, you can spend the dollars.

Re:Pre announcements (5, Insightful)

BWJones (18351) | more than 9 years ago | (#12042027)

Nobody gets hurt...

But it is of course dishonest to both your customers and shareholders. For companies that want to build quality relationships with their customers, this is bad policy. You've heard of vaporware? Yeah, that's what your customers begin to expect and why companies like Microsoft, HP (under Carly) and others have lost the respect of many of their customers. Concept products are one thing, in that they are designed to get a feeling for how your customer base would react to such a product, but there is no expectation of that concept being actually produced in its current form. Pre-announcing is simply dishonest.

Re:Pre announcements (2, Insightful)

soupdevil (587476) | more than 9 years ago | (#12042302)

It's not "simply" dishonest -- it's dishonest in tricky and complex ways.

Don't release it untill it's ready for sale. (4, Interesting)

Aqua OS X (458522) | more than 9 years ago | (#12042143)

It depends on the product. In this case, I think Apple is right. Motorola doesn't have much experience with releasing consumer products that people lust for... Apple does.

If you announce an iTunes / Motorola Cellphone before it is ready to hit the market, you adversely affect current sales of iPods and Moto phones. People like to have the next best thing, and they hate buying something that's outdated in a month. Consumers will usually hold off on purchasing a new device if they can get a cooler device in a few months / weeks.

This is precisely why Apple usually announces hardware and sells it the very same day. If they don't do that, they have to liquidate a load of outdated hardware. Consumers won't buy a 15 gig iPod if they know a 20 gig with more features will be on sale for the same price next month.

The only time Apple doesn't do this is when they have a future product that doesn't directly compete against what they are currently selling.

Apple has one of the best inventory records in the tech industry. Motorola should listen them.

Re:Pre announcements (1)

tomdoe (869721) | more than 9 years ago | (#12042125)

Thanks for the brief summary/analysis. I thought the part about mods posting verbatim was particularly insightful.

Re:Pre announcements (2, Interesting)

lowrydr310 (830514) | more than 9 years ago | (#12042186)

I thought the wireless companies make enough profit by passing on their fees and surcharges directly to the customer. Imagine buying something at Target and having them charge you an electricy surcharge, security surcharge, paper surcharge (to cover the cost of the paper your receipt was printed on), etc.

Ok, maybe it's not exactly the same, but wireless companies seem pretty greedy and I read an article somewhere that said they make a hefty chunk of change by passing telecom fees directly to the consumer. Even if my bill was the same amount that I pay now, I would feel more comfortable if they didn't itemize those fees and make it seem that the government requires them to directly bill the consumer.

Re:Pre announcements (2, Informative)

mp3phish (747341) | more than 9 years ago | (#12042268)

" I thought the wireless companies make enough profit by passing on their fees and surcharges directly to the customer"

Actually, cellular companies make a hefty profit by reselling the phones. They only "lose" money on the free phones. All the "discounted" phones are still above their costs. They just jack them up significantly and then drop them back down to a reasonable level when you buy the 2yr contract.

Pre announcements-And rumours of... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12042226)

"Showing precisely why pre-announcement of products only leads to problems, frustrations, and customer dissatisfaction.

Only announce products when they are done and ready to ship and you avoid this sort of garbage."

Well there goes ThinkSecret's business model.

Re:Pre announcements (-1, Flamebait)

mp3phish (747341) | more than 9 years ago | (#12042232)

"The problem of course is that on sales of the songs themselves, Apple's profit is next to nothing."

Last I checked, apple pays 60c per song and resells them for 99c. That is approximately a 40% margin. Most online retailers who go through less volume than that and must maintain inventory (which apple doesn't on music) scrape by with less than 10% margin on products if they are LUCKY. This is before you factor in shrink and damaged goods and returns. You can hardly say iTMS is next to nothing in margin.

You obviously have no concept of margins in e-commerce. Otherwise you wouldn't be saying that. Next time try to make your argument stick in real world scenerios rather than make believe BS you want to spout off to try to look smart (and I'm sure there are plenty of apple ipod fanboys who probably read your post and accepted it at face value.)

Try to be more accurate next time.

Re:Pre announcements (2, Informative)

tomdoe (869721) | more than 9 years ago | (#12042296)

Last I checked, apple pays 60c per song and resells them for 99c.

Actually, I believe the poster is just stating a bit of widely-reported information:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2003/11/07/your_99c_b elong/

At an Apple financial analyst conference on Wednesday CEO Steve Jobs admitted that Apple makes no revenue from the online download service, the iTunes Music Store, that he launched in April.

No hang ups here. (-1, Offtopic)

DrunkenTerror (561616) | more than 9 years ago | (#12041926)


First Post after being back from bannage!

Re:No hang ups here. (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12041940)

or not, asshole

second post (0, Offtopic)

Tab is on Slashdot (853634) | more than 9 years ago | (#12041962)

second post

Say WHY (5, Informative)

mr100percent (57156) | more than 9 years ago | (#12041928)

Why can't the poster include a one-sentence explanation of Why? He even copied the headline. From the article:
Verizon, Cingular, and other wireless operators want customers to pay to put music on phones [instead of copying them from a computer.] They think getting a full song should be like getting a ring tone.
This isn't a first. Verizon modified the firmware on the Treo 600 and Motorola v710 camera phones to prevent the images from being copied off via Bluetooth. Instead, they wanted you to send the photos through their pay service.

Why (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12041980)

Why do wireless providers have control over what I put on MY phone??? I'm not paying them to maintain the reality field around my cellphone am I? It's MY phone, I paid money for it. I should be able to use it like any other electronic device if I'm not making phone calls.

That's what my usb connection to my phone is for! For connecting my computer's content to my phone.

Re:Say WHY (2, Insightful)

jonwil (467024) | more than 9 years ago | (#12042022)

Thankfully that cant happen in a country like Australia with REAL compeition in the phone market and REAL choice of phones.

Hey Mods: The TRUTH is NOT flamebait! (2, Insightful)

mrchaotica (681592) | more than 9 years ago | (#12042168)

Why are we putting up with this kind of thing in here in the US, anyway? I mean I'm not, personally -- I don't own a cellphone. But that's because there's no way in hell I'd pay someone to cripple the device for me, just to force me to pay them more money! Why are there so many sheeple here to let them get away with it?

Well then. (1, Interesting)

mcc (14761) | more than 9 years ago | (#12042055)

If that really is the problem, then why deal with Verizon and Cingular at all? Release the thing in Europe, or somewhere (if some such place exists) where consumers have enough of a choice of cell phone providers that the provider can't stop the customer from doing what they like with their own phone. Once it's been out awhile, quietly try to make the public aware that the people in Europe have access to this phone iPod thing and that the only reason why Americans can't use it is because the American cell phone oligopoly doesn't like it. At that point the idea of defecting will start to look awfully attractive to the local providers...

Isn't Motorola supposed to be German anyway?

Re:Well then. (4, Informative)

tim1724 (28482) | more than 9 years ago | (#12042139)

Isn't Motorola supposed to be German anyway?

Huh? What are you talking about?

Motorola is a US corporation, traded on the NYSE (ticker symbol MOT). Its headquarters are in Schaumburg, Illinois. How does that make it German?

Re:Well then. (1)

mrchaotica (681592) | more than 9 years ago | (#12042180)

I think he's confusing it with Philips or Nokia (which are European, at least).

Re:Well then. (1)

mcc (14761) | more than 9 years ago | (#12042185)

Just a question. Apparently the answer is "no"

Re:Well then. (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12042272)

Actually, the answer is "no, dumbass. Open Google in another window and become informed before shooting your mouth off."

FUCK YOU APPLEDOT (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12041933)

With all of these free ads, I think Apple should be buying us all subscriptions to Slashdot, don't you think?

Re:FUCK YOU APPLEDOT (0, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12042099)

While I'm not going to say that it's an "ad," but I do wonder why they need to put Apples stock market symbol in the commentary. The editors don't do this for other companies.

Ctrl+C Ctrl+V (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12042157)


the submitter just copied the article vertabim, usually the AAPL would have a link to the stock price

Re:FUCK YOU APPLEDOT (1)

yuriismaster (776296) | more than 9 years ago | (#12042161)

It's because the submitter (chadwick) copied the first few sentences from the BuisnessWeek Article who posts stock symbols next to referenced companies as their readership includes buisnessmen.

It is kinda sad the editors didn't take the stock symbol out, but its sadder the submitter didn't.

Re:FUCK YOU APPLEDOT (1)

mesach (191869) | more than 9 years ago | (#12042200)

The editors also do not write the submissions, and the submitter in this case doesn't either, he just copied and pasted the first 2 paragraphs of the article.

Re:FUCK YOU APPLEDOT (1)

black mariah (654971) | more than 9 years ago | (#12042227)

So exactly how stupid do you have to be to not notice that this is in the APPLE section? You know, the place where APPLE stuff is talked about?

Hello Moto (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12041941)

Well, what do you expect when you partner two large companies together, for a collaboration project... there's bound to be issues combining work forces on a single project. I'm not all that surprised. But, I don't think they have much to worry about, since even if mp3 phones come out with lots of storage, it's unlikely they'll have the same appeal the apple brand has.

Whata ya wanna bet (0, Troll)

Grand Facade (35180) | more than 9 years ago | (#12041957)

That the mother of all software companies drove a wedge into that deal.....?

Re:Whata ya wanna bet (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12041981)

That the mother of all software companies drove a wedge into that deal.....? "Mother of all software companies"? I think "abusive stepfather" is more appropriate.

Re:Whata ya wanna bet (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12042004)

For anyone who is interested you can find the above mentioned "mother software" here [programurl.com]

Duke Nukem (-1, Offtopic)

kizzbizz (870017) | more than 9 years ago | (#12041959)

Hey, Duke Nukem Forever may finally have some competition now. After all, I see DN:F going through 10 more total rewrites before I see the baby bells allowing a product that DOESN'T completly overcharge for the extras.

This is why US is waaay behind in cellular tech.. (5, Informative)

dwipal (709116) | more than 9 years ago | (#12041967)

I visit India and other contries, and i must say that the phones and technologies people use there is WAAAY superior than what we use in US.

Synchronizing the phones with computer is standard there, and so is "SMSing" ringtones. If one person buys a ringtone from the carrier (which is around 8 cents), that ringtone can be SMSed to all the friends. There is a nominal charge for SMS also, basically its a huge market which people simply love.

What sucks here is iTunes sells whole song for 99c, and the f**** cell phone carrier sells the MIDI file for that song for 3 dollars, that expires in 3 months!!!! No wonder people use sites like 3guploads.com or PitPim to put ringtones on their phones. The carriers are simply killing the technology by locking too much stuff.

Re:This is why US is waaay behind in cellular tech (0, Troll)

Infinite Entropy (870073) | more than 9 years ago | (#12042029)

SMS tends to be so much more popular outside the US because voice service is so much more expensive. Voice service is so cheap in the use SMS never took off. Not to mention that typeing on a cell phone sucks.

Re:This is why US is waaay behind in cellular tech (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12042048)

No wonder people use sites like 3guploads.com or PitPim to put ringtones on their phones.

I think you meant bitpim [sourceforge.net] .

not just USA (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12042104)


the same ringtone scam is happening worldwide, the big 5 record companies (Universal,BMG etc) are creaming their pants over the ringtone market because they want to sell the latest Gwen Stefani or fake boy band cover for 10000% markup compared to a regular cd album, and then they wonder why people rip MP3's and share them for free

if you try to rob me (the customer), i will rob your whole fncking store

Re:This is why US is waaay behind in cellular tech (4, Informative)

ezthrust (564219) | more than 9 years ago | (#12042120)

You don't have to go to India to get a fair deal. I am on Fido in Canada using a SE T610 I got for $25. It has the most recent firmware, BT is active, I can use .midi files that I make myself as ringtones. Text messages 10 cents, Picture 25 cents. Data, 3 cents a KB (I don't have a plan for that)

Am I happy with my carrier?
Damn straight!

Re:This is why US is waaay behind in cellular tech (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12042305)

I just returned from visiting India and dude, SMS is cheap over there. The rates are 0.5/2/5 rupees for local/national/international messages. That translates to 1.2/4.5/11 cents. Voice-calls are reasonable too - around 4.5 cents a minute and all incoming calls are free.
I am quite amazed at how cell phones have proliferated there (esp. after hearing about how low the land line density was in the past years).
It took me all of 15 minutes to sign up and be active with one of the providers on a pre-paid plan - no locked (GSM) phones which allows very easy switching between carriers!!!!!

Re:This is why US is waaay behind in cellular tech (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12042279)

I can't believe that people pay $3 a ringtone to begin with! I just find a nice MP3, and upload it. Simple, no headaches, and a real selection, not the last 10 rap songs to come out.

iPod Cell Phone? (5, Funny)

ZipR (584654) | more than 9 years ago | (#12041970)

Will you dial by twirling your fingers in a circle on the rotary sensor like an old pulse dialing phone?
I could get behind that.

Re:iPod Cell Phone? (1)

bird603568 (808629) | more than 9 years ago | (#12042001)

Also think about the potential of text messageing. They put the letters and numbers around the wheel and you "spin" it it a rotar.

Re:iPod Cell Phone? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12042038)

The twirling your fingers action also improves your expertise in pleasuring women.

Re:iPod Cell Phone? (4, Funny)

natrius (642724) | more than 9 years ago | (#12042098)

The twirling your fingers action also improves your expertise in pleasuring women.

Girlfriend: Did you just dial my best friend's number on me? How the hell do you know her number?!

Recipe for disaster.

Re:iPod Cell Phone? (0, Offtopic)

yuriismaster (776296) | more than 9 years ago | (#12042128)

See the thing is that your girlfriend would have to memorize the pattern of her best friend's number and translate it to the sensations 'down south'.

I would only assume this would take practice, which means your girlfriend may in fact have one of her own (which isn't such a bad thing ;) )

Re:iPod Cell Phone? (1)

XFilesFMDS1013 (830724) | more than 9 years ago | (#12042112)

Remember where you're posting this....

Re:iPod Cell Phone? (1)

Peden (753161) | more than 9 years ago | (#12042148)

Nokia has a weird phone that works in a manner a bit like that. It's a bit bigger than a lipstick, and numbers/letters are scrolled onto the screen using some sort of joystick. Only saw an early model of this phone at a convention so I dont know if its still on the market. Looked sassy at first, but failed with the impossible to use interface.

Proper attribution, please (0)

Dachannien (617929) | more than 9 years ago | (#12041992)

I just wanted to take a moment and praise the well-written original post in this thread.

Too bad all this chadwick guy did was copy the first two paragraphs of the linked article verbatim, without providing attribution.

Awwwww (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12042002)

This just means it is going to take a little longer for the slashdot crowd to complain that the songs cost to much to play on a phone they would never buy.

Same issues as usual, actually (4, Interesting)

Dancin_Santa (265275) | more than 9 years ago | (#12042009)

Basically there are two opposing parties in any cellphone you see on the market. The first is the obvious one, the handset maker. The other is the operator (Vodafone, Sprint, etc). While it may seem like these two would normally be a happy bunch. But they aren't.

Handset makers want to stylize their phone as much as possible. Adding features and making their phone stand out from the rest of the pack. Operators want all the phones to support a certain set of basic functionality and fit into a certain form factor. They don't want to allow the handset maker's trademarks overshadow their own. On the other hand, the makers want it to be obvious to the user who the maker of that phone is.

Apple, and to a large extent Microsoft too, have very strong brands. They love branding. That's why we're talking about an iPhone and not an Apple-produced cell phone. But operators don't want that kind of power shifted into the hands of the makers.

So you get what we have here, which is the way he wants it.

Microsoft loves branding. (2, Funny)

AtariAmarok (451306) | more than 9 years ago | (#12042110)

"Apple, and to a large extent Microsoft too, have very strong brands. They love branding"

The problem is, with Microsoft branding, the experience is a lot like what a cow feels at the end of the roundup. "Yeeha! Dogies. Stand still so we can brand you with the MS of the Billygates Ranch. The brandin' irons are heatin' up."

Re:Same issues as usual, actually (3, Informative)

wannabgeek (323414) | more than 9 years ago | (#12042280)

In India, the handset and the carrier are pretty much detached. Lot of people by the handset they like separately and then simply buy the SIM card from the service provider. Allows them to change carrier/number etc pretty easily as there is no network locking or anything. Of course, we don't get the handset for free, tho.

Why?! (0, Flamebait)

Walker2323 (670050) | more than 9 years ago | (#12042021)

Why do we always feel the need to combine all the gadgets we own into one cumbersome piece of crap that can't do any of the things it's supposed to do well? I don't want my blender to play mp3's, and I don't need a shoe-phone, thanks very much. Besides, if I want to trade my phone up every year or so, I sure as hell don't want to shell out for an mp3 player, as well.

Re:Why?! (2, Insightful)

jollyrog (870639) | more than 9 years ago | (#12042092)

Carrying around a cell phone in my pocket is annoying enough, but having to lug another device is why I haven't bought an MP3 player or PDA.

Being a student at the University, I move around a lot during the day between libraries, classes, and gyms, and having an mp3 player during the day would be great, but I've already got my phone in one pocket, keys in the other, and wallet in the back.

Re:Why?! (1)

rgmoore (133276) | more than 9 years ago | (#12042162)

That's why so many techies have started wearing utility belts. They give you a lot of space to hang all your various gadgets.

Re:Why?! (1)

thparker (717240) | more than 9 years ago | (#12042270)

Carrying around a cell phone in my pocket is annoying enough, but having to lug another device is why I haven't bought an MP3 player or PDA.

"Lug" around another device? Isn't that a little over the top? You make it sound like we're talking about carrying a spare boat anchor.

Being a student at the University, I move around a lot during the day between libraries, classes, and gyms, and having an mp3 player during the day would be great, but I've already got my phone in one pocket, keys in the other, and wallet in the back.

You could try one of these innovative new products that have come on the market. They take fabric or animal hide and sew it together, creating a kind of giant pocket! Often, these pockets are sometimes further divided, so you can kind of organize things. Marketing wizards have come up with catchy names for these things like "satchel" or "backpack". Check them out -- they're kind of cool, and might even be useful to carry books between all those libraries and classes you're heading to.

Compatible? (0, Redundant)

cenosite (870637) | more than 9 years ago | (#12042033)

I bet that "the handset's debut would have to wait." because, at least for hard drive based ipods, a phone on vibrate is a bad thing for the relatively weak hard drives in these things. I dont have the specs handy, but the hard drive in an ipod probably is not up for the abuse of a phone vibrator built in. Killer phone: flash ipod, am/fm, cell phone. Compare international long distance phone card rates at http://www.allegrophone.com

RTFA (1)

dustmite (667870) | more than 9 years ago | (#12042081)

Major carriers are blocking the phone's entry because they want to be able to force users to pay them money to do something as basic as copy songs onto the phone/player. These are economic/strategic obstacles not technical obstacles.

uhhh (4, Interesting)

Illserve (56215) | more than 9 years ago | (#12042039)

A phone in my MP3 player? That's pretty easy to resist. I beat the living tar out of my phone. Most people do.

The ipod is pretty tough yea, but it wouldn't last a week in the chassis of my mobile phone.

Nor would I want my phone to have a net worth of $400 either.

Can we get over this fixation with phone/mp3/toaster oven/breadmakers already? Their day has come and gone. I want devices grouped by how I use and abuse them.

Re:uhhh (1)

Stone316 (629009) | more than 9 years ago | (#12042201)

I agree.. Mine phone has some nice gouges out of it.. Add to the fact how many times i've drop it on the ground getting out of my car and the holster breaking twice and sending my phone tumbling.. I don't think a HD based MP3 player is going to be a very good idea.. Now the flash one would be another story.

Ignoring this, who the hell is going to pay to download a song to their phone when they have already legally purchased it? I have camera phone and its rediculus how much they charge you to email/upload a 10k picture. To add insult to injury, you pay 100 bucks for a data to go cable and software and the only thing you can do is sync your phone with your contact list. No outlook syncronization, can't upload ringtones, download images. Its a freaking ripoff... At least my company is paying for it.

it's flash based storage (1)

johnpaul191 (240105) | more than 9 years ago | (#12042209)

some info on the phone did leak out, including that it was flash based. it's not huge capacity or anything. they showed it to the press a day or two before the cancelled release and i guess from there some info came out about how many songs it can hold and whatnot. i don't remember the capacity, because they always talk about it in terms of number of songs (grr) and not MBs.

i don't think it's iPod + phone as much as a phone with a built in flash drive and some slimmed down version of the iPod's software. it has some of the iPod's interface as well as the ability to play iTMS songs... and it can sync with iTunes.

Re:uhhh (1)

Quiet_Desperation (858215) | more than 9 years ago | (#12042239)

I beat the living tar out of my phone. Most people do.

Once again, I am glad not to be most people. :)

Re:uhhh (1)

Silverlancer (786390) | more than 9 years ago | (#12042240)

This is why I use a Lyra HD. Its a gigantic, ugly MP3 player. Its incredibly cheap: when I bought it two years ago it was just 180 dollars for a 20 gigabyte player (when iPods were 400!). Now you can get them for hardly 100 bucks. They're big, ugly, and heavy, but damnit they can take a beating. At one point a small piece of plastic got stuck in the display and wouldn't move--I solved it by banging the thing about 100 times against a hard wooden table. Kept playing the whole time too without skipping. If it was an iPod, it would be in pieces. But these things, however cumbersome they are, are built like tanks. I can drop it all I want and not have to imagine a dead-iPod-horror-story.

Re:uhhh (1)

Razzak (253908) | more than 9 years ago | (#12042257)

Sounds like you don't even have an ipod.
Further, since you don't want a $400 phone (newsflash: if you pay $200 for a phone with a new contract, it's worth probably about $400) that means you're not interested in having a phone that can play mp3's.

The toaster-oven idea really is the holy grail of mobile devices. Don't compare it to software toaster-oven (say, Mozilla suite) because I don't have to physically carry around Firefox, Sunbird, and Thunderbird.

Integration is sweet. Stop the hating.

Re:uhhh (1)

seanadams.com (463190) | more than 9 years ago | (#12042266)

I want devices grouped by how I use and abuse them.

Sure you do, until the price/performance/convenience reality hits you. Would you pay $100 for a phone, plus $300 for an iPod, plus $200 for a still cam, plus $400 for a camcoder, plus $300 for a PDA, plus $20 for a USB keychain disk, etc etc, or $300 for one device that fits in your pocket and does all of this?

Today, you might prefer separate devices to do each of these things because the multifuction devices are all shitty at any given function.

However, all of these devices need approximately the same kind of storage, CPU, IO, battery, UI, buttons and so on, even though you only ever use one function at at a time. However, tying the functions together (eg taking a picture and then instantly sending it to someone on your phone list) is damn compelling - that's why they're converging.

Solution: (0, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12042047)

1.) Apple and motorola combine forces to create their own cell phone towers and wireless carrier network!
2.) All geeks transfer over to the new system, and it crashes.
3.) But with the new money, Apple and motorola make an even larger network and buy out a few carriers as well
4.) Profit!

Good for the little guys (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12042061)


because it was an anti-trust lawsuit waiting to happen, never mind the DRM crap motorola was trying to shove down peoples throats

New Annoying Ring Tones (5, Funny)

[cx] (181186) | more than 9 years ago | (#12042065)

Now instead of hearing a crappy sounding ring tone you can hear the most annoying 50 cent song in CLEAR digital quality.

Next time I see... (5, Funny)

StimpyPimp (821985) | more than 9 years ago | (#12042067)

A person walking down the street with some white ear plugs, talking to themselves, about the mac cult taking over the world... or some such, I will assume they are just on the phone.

Ring Tones are the problem here! (5, Insightful)

SteveXE (641833) | more than 9 years ago | (#12042072)

The problem isnt the feature rich phone, the problem is carriers have some how got people to pay $1-4 for STUPID RINGTONES!!!! Itunes charges me $1 for a song whether its 1 min or 10 min, but a 3 second repeating ringtone costs me $2 or a 12 kbps 30 seconds clip of a song cost me $4...wtf is all I can say.

The phone companies wont let people do what we want with our phones until we stop letting them rape our wallets! $1.50 for a 32x32 pixel background image! Why cant i just send myself a custom made BG for free? Easy because stupid people pay, and they keep paying.

Change wont take long, if we all stopped buying ringtones and bullshit for our phones then change would happen pretty quick, its a broken buisness model made to screw the customers out of even more money, dont fall for it!

Re:Ring Tones are the problem here! (1)

dangitman (862676) | more than 9 years ago | (#12042309)

The phone companies wont let people do what we want with our phones until we stop letting them rape our wallets! $1.50 for a 32x32 pixel background image! Why cant i just send myself a custom made BG for free?

Well, why don't you just get a decent phone? My Nokia 6600 allows me to transfer any digital image to use as a background. I can also convert music to WAV format (and usually convert it to Mono, 22.050 sample rate to save space) - and make any ring-tone I want, without the limitations of MIDI. it's great being able to rip the audio from a DVD and use movie quotes for for different callers and messages, instead of annoying ringtones.

Just use bluetooth and a decent phone, then you can do pretty much anything you would want to do with a phone.

DRM-enabled? (3, Funny)

LokieLizzy (858962) | more than 9 years ago | (#12042076)

Perhaps you'll only be able to talk with other iPhones, and not with real phones, you know, so you'll be able to communicate with the hippest trendwhores...err...hipsters.

Yeah. Hipsters. That's what I meant.

The real reason the iPodPhone should be droppped.. (3, Insightful)

Trillan (597339) | more than 9 years ago | (#12042079)

...is that nobody cares. Honestly, who's in the market for one of these phones? Phones have a short enough battery life.

Everyone's excited now, but wait until it ships.

Re:The real reason the iPodPhone should be dropppe (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12042267)

Ya know, that occurred to me, but think about it this way:

I have a flash-based mp3 player that will player for 13 hours off a single AAA battery. Cellphone LI batteries are much beefier. I bet the additional battery drain from playing MP3s will be almost undetectable.

stock options, yay. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12042085)

it seems like the headline poster owns stock in both of those companies a) market speak b) posting stock identifiers /just saying

Inevitable result of iPod Phone. (5, Funny)

AtariAmarok (451306) | more than 9 years ago | (#12042086)

ring ring ring
Mabel: "Henry!"
Henry: "What, dear?
Mabel: "It's one of those calls again.
Henry: "What calls, dear?"
Mabel: "Every 20 minutes or so, the phone rings and I pick it up and I hear some of that damn rock music"

Meanwhile, somewhere 5 states away, Jason is grooving down the streets, buds in ears, with one hand on the iPod phone as he hits the controls and surfs through his really impressive Led Zep collection. Every once in a while, he presses a button and the song does not change. No idea why.

Phony iPod (0, Redundant)

dotslashdot (694478) | more than 9 years ago | (#12042097)

I knew it was a phony iPod story. Now it's time the phonys face the music.

not maybe as good but its called a nokia 6230 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12042106)

works ok

Why not add a cell phone service charge? (3, Interesting)

jkeyes (243984) | more than 9 years ago | (#12042116)

The Wireless services are being stupid on this. They could just add a 'iTunes Phone Access Fee' that's $5.00 to everyone who gets the phone. Then no matter how many songs they add they get their $5.00 and I think that if meant you got the phone for free most people who read the terms after they sign wouldn't care or would just want the shiny new phone.

iPhones? (0, Flamebait)

LokieLizzy (858962) | more than 9 years ago | (#12042127)

Steve Jobs continues to revolutionize the modern world, combining the marvels of both the telecommunications industry and that of the digital music revolution.

SJ: It will change the iPod as we know it.

/.: But you've already got the iPod, the iPod mini, the iPod photo...isn't that enough?

SJ: It is never enough.

/.: But...

SJ: Hold on a sec...(whips small white device out of pocket, punches hole in its screen). It's the latest device in the iPod family.

/.: What is it? A Powerbook with a 64-bit processor?

SJ: No.

/.: An iPod with a user-replaceable battery?

SJ: (Scoffs). No.

/.: What *is* it???

SJ: The iPlog. A device to revolutionize blogging as we know it.

/.: (ARGH!)

Ubiquitous computing (3, Insightful)

Valthezeh (870251) | more than 9 years ago | (#12042135)

I love this idea. I hope things keep going in this direction, because I like the idea of my phone doing everything. Acting as my TV remote, my car door opener, my camera, my ipod, my palm pilot, my mobile stock/email/sports scores report... As well as the ability to interface with other technology to keep me updated on things like whether my oven is on...

I read a few weeks ago about a cell phone company in Japan working on this, and despite my reservations due to privacy concerns, I really can't wait until this kind of technology becomes widely available.

So? (3, Interesting)

Locke2005 (849178) | more than 9 years ago | (#12042137)

I've got a Samsung Uproar cell phone that plays MP3's which is several years old (and which I don't even use any more). Seems to me combining a cell phone and MP3 player isn't exactly a novel idea... but wait, it's Apple, so that makes it special?!?

Motorola should have known this (5, Insightful)

gjh (231652) | more than 9 years ago | (#12042140)

It was idiotic even trying to launch this thing in the USA. Carriers have a strange-hold over this market. Nokia has a range over over 100 handsets - you can buy about 6 of these on US carrier contracts, not including decent phones with WLAN and Bluetooth [nokia-asia.com] .

I cannot understand why Apple is sodding around with Motorola on this. They should have partnered with Nokia.

As an aside, Apple should also partner with Shazam [shazam.com] . The best thing that an iPod/phone combo could do is recognize music from an online database and buy it for you.

Re:Motorola should have known this (0, Redundant)

Quiet_Desperation (858215) | more than 9 years ago | (#12042213)

Carriers have a strange-hold over this market.

How strange? You mean some sort of sneaky, underhanded mind-meld sort of thing?

Re:Motorola should have known this (3, Interesting)

serfx (655219) | more than 9 years ago | (#12042287)

Well aside from the technical standpoint that apple and motorola have been working togeather for years. The whole other reason to partner with them over _ANY_ other celular phone maker is that much like Apple, Motorola makes the sexiest damn cell phones around. So why not combine that with the sexiest mp3 player in town?
Think from a design/marketing point of view.
I know you've been thinking about Motorola's M3 razor or whatever that damn thing i don't need but severly want is.

Re:Motorola should have known this (5, Interesting)

Phleg (523632) | more than 9 years ago | (#12042303)

I cannot understand why Apple is sodding around with Motorola on this. They should have partnered with Nokia.

I couldn't agree more. My Nokia ended up breaking after about four years, and I ended up getting a Motorola. I've regretted every minute of it. Whereas Nokia seems to have a smiliar mindset to that of Apple (a focus on usability), my Motorola is the most unusable piece of crap I've ever had the displeasure of dealing with.

I can store something like five minutes of voice on the cell phone, but I'll be damned if it runs out of space with twenty text messages. You can't turn the volume off without making more noise. Even when the volume is off, some buttons still make noise (and are conveniently on the outside of the phone, so it can beep in your pocket) making the vibrate feature nearly useless. The "Accept" and "Cancel" buttons are on different sides at different times. The dial and hangup buttons are permanently juxtaposed. The "Memory Meter" shows you a representation of how much memory is left on the phone, but you have no way of telling whether or not a full bar means it's full of space or filled up. Assigning a one-touch dial number to contacts is a pain in the ass. The power connector features two microscopic hooks which are so easy to break it's unbelievable. The phone takes five minutes after "booting" before I can place a call, view my contact list, check messages, etc. Switching the phone to "Silent" or "Vibrate" does not necessarily turn the volume off.

I swear to god if I ever meet the man who designed this worthless piece of shit, I am going to bludgeon him with a tractor.

How to Remove Linux and Install Windows XP (0, Offtopic)

slashtwat (721412) | more than 9 years ago | (#12042146)

SUMMARY
This article explains how to remove the Linux operating system from your computer and install Windows XP. This article assumes that Linux is already installed on your computer's hard disk, that Linux native and Linux swap partitions are in use (which are incompatible with Windows XP), and that there is no free space left on the hard disk.

NOTE: Windows XP and Linux can coexist on the same computer. For additional information, refer to your Linux documentation.
MORE INFORMATION
To install Windows XP on a computer on which Linux is currently installed (and assuming that you want to remove Linux), you must manually delete the partitions used by the Linux operating system. The Windows-compatible partition can be created automatically during the installation of Windows XP.

IMPORTANT: Before you follow the steps in this article, verify that you have a bootable disk or bootable CD-ROM for the Linux operating system, because these steps completely remove the Linux operating system from your computer. If you intend to restore the Linux operating system at a later date, verify that you also have a functional backup of all the information stored on your computer. Additionally, you must have a full release version of Windows XP to use during this installation. If you intend to use a Windows XP upgrade CD-ROM, a CD-ROM of a qualifying Windows product must be available. Setup from the Windows XP upgrade CD-ROM will prompt you for this CD-ROM.

Linux file systems use a superblock at the beginning of a disk partition to identify the basic size, shape, and condition of the file system.

The Linux operating system is generally installed on partition type 83 (Linux native) or 82 (Linux swap). The Linux boot manager (LILO) can be configured to start from either of the following locations: The hard disk Master Boot Record (MBR)

-or-
The root folder of the Linux partition
The Fdisk tool included with Linux can be used to delete the partitions. (There are other utilities that work just as well, such as Fdisk from MS-DOS 5.0 and later, or you can delete the partitions during the installation process.)

To remove Linux from your computer and install Windows XP, follow these steps: 1. Remove the native, swap, and boot partitions used by Linux:a. Start your computer with the Linux Setup floppy disk, type fdisk at the command prompt, and then press ENTER.

NOTE: For help with using the Fdisk tool, type m at the command prompt, and then press ENTER.
b. Type p at the command prompt, and then press ENTER to display partition information. The first item listed is hard disk 1, partition 1 information, and the second item listed is hard disk 1, partition 2 information.
c. Type d at the command prompt, and then press ENTER. You are then prompted for the partition number that you want to delete. Type 1, and then press ENTER to delete partition number 1. Repeat this step until all the partitions have been deleted.
d. Type w, and then press ENTER to write this information to the partition table. Some error messages may be generated (because information is written to the partition table), but they should not be significant at this point because the next step is to restart the computer and then install the new operating system.
e. Type q at the command prompt, and then press ENTER to quit the Fdisk tool.
f. Insert either a bootable floppy disk or the bootable Windows XP CD-ROM, and then press CTRL+ALT+DELETE to restart your computer.

2. Follow the instructions on the screen to install Windows XP.

The installation process assists you in creating the appropriate partitions on your computer.

Sample Linux Partition Tables
Single SCSI Drive
Device Boot Start End Blocks Id System /dev/sda1 * 1 500 4016218 83 Linux native (SCSI hard drive 1, partition 1) /dev/sda2 501 522 176715 82 Linux swap (SCSI hard drive 1, partition 2)

Multiple SCSI Drives
Device Boot Start End Blocks Id System /dev/sda1 * 1 500 4016218 83 Linux native (SCSI hard drive 1, partition 1) /dev/sda2 501 522 176715 82 Linux swap (SCSI hard drive 1, partition 2) /dev/sdb1 1 500 4016218 83 Linux native (SCSI hard drive 2, partition 1)

Single IDE Drive
Device Boot Start End Blocks Id System /dev/hda1 * 1 500 4016218 83 Linux native (IDE hard drive 1, partition 1) /dev/hda2 501 522 176715 82 Linux swap (IDE hard drive 1, partition 2)

Multiple IDE Drives
Device Boot Start End Blocks Id System /dev/hda1 * 1 500 4016218 83 Linux native (IDE hard drive 1, partition 1) /dev/hda2 501 522 176715 82 Linux swap (IDE hard drive 1, partition 2) /dev/hdb1 1 500 4016218 83 Linux native (IDE hard drive 2, partition 1)

Additionally, Linux recognizes more than 40 different partition types, including the following: FAT 12 (Type 01)
FAT 16 > 32 M Primary (Type 06)
FAT 16 Extended (Type 05)
FAT 32 w/o LBA Primary (Type 0b)
FAT 32 w/LBA Primary (Type 0c)
FAT 16 w/LBA (Type 0e)
FAT 16 w/LBA Extended (Type 0f)
Note that there are other ways to remove the Linux operating system and install Windows XP. The preceding method is included in this article because of the assumptions that the Linux operating system is already functioning and there is no more room on the hard disk. There are methods for changing partition sizes with software designed for managing partitions. Disk partitioning software may cause instability with the Windows XP installation. Microsoft does not support the installation of Windows XP on partitions manipulated in this manner.

You can also use an MS-DOS version 5.0-or-later boot disk, a Microsoft Windows 95 Startup disk, or a Microsoft Windows 98 Startup disk that contains the Fdisk utility to remove an operating system from the hard disk and install a different operating system. When you start Fdisk and multiple drives are installed on your computer, you are presented with five choices; use option 5 to select the hard disk that has the partition to be deleted. After that (or if you have only one hard disk), select option 3 (Delete partition or logical DOS drive), and then select option 4 (Delete non-DOS partition). You should then see the non-MS-DOS partitions that you want to delete. Typically, the Linux operating system has two non-MS-DOS partitions, but there may be more. After you delete one partition, use the same steps to delete any other appropriate non-MS-DOS partitions.

For additional information about how to use the Fdisk utility, click the article number below to view the article in the Microsoft Knowledge Base:
255867 How to Use the Fdisk Tool and the Format Tool to Partition or Repartition a Hard Disk
After you delete the partitions, you can create partitions and install the operating system that you want. You can create only one primary partition and an extended partition with multiple logical drives by using Fdisk from MS-DOS version 5.0-and-later, Windows 95, and Windows 98. The maximum FAT16 primary partition size is 2 gigabytes (GB). The largest FAT16 logical drive size is 2 GB.

For additional information, click the article number below to view the article in the Microsoft Knowledge Base:
105074 MS-DOS 6.2 Partitioning Questions and Answers
When you install Windows XP, the Linux partitions can be removed and new partitions created and formatted with the appropriate file system type during the installation process. Windows XP allows you to create more than one primary partition. Windows XP does recognize the FAT32 file system. During the installation of Windows XP, you can create a very large FAT32 drive. The FAT32 drive can be converted to NTFS after the installation has completed, if appropriate.

For additional information about how to multiboot with Windows XP, click the article number below to view the article in the Microsoft Knowledge Base:
306559 HOW TO: Create a Multiple-Boot System with Windows XP
For more information, browse to the following Microsoft Web site:
http://www.microsoft.com/windows2000/techin fo/admi nistration/management/mltiboot.asp
Microsoft provides third-party contact information to help you find technical support. This contact information may change without notice. Microsoft does not guarantee the accuracy of this third-party contact information.

The third-party products that are discussed in this article are manufactured by companies that are independent of Microsoft. Microsoft makes no warranty, implied or otherwise, regarding the performance or reliability of these products.

We need to change this (5, Insightful)

HairyCanary (688865) | more than 9 years ago | (#12042169)

I see nothing but dark clouds in the future of cell phones in America unless we take back control from the corporations. We must divorce the hardware from the service, just like we did for wired telephone service. You should be able to buy whatever phone YOU want, with whatever feature set YOU want, and connect to whatever carrier YOU want. Verizon in particular has already shown us exactly how they want to control us.

Re:We need to change this (1)

Quiet_Desperation (858215) | more than 9 years ago | (#12042196)

Is it so bad? You can choose the carrier you want, and the phone pretty much comes free much of the time. My Nextel phone wound up giving me a net +$50 after rebates.

The one change I would like to see is the end of being locked into a service contract, or at least not one over three months.

Re:We need to change this (1)

jr87 (653146) | more than 9 years ago | (#12042288)

go to europe...heck go to canada...look at all the pretty phones...
come back to the USA...
and cry

seriously, the carriers in the US are what is keeping cellphone tech so fricken behind in the United States. We should not have phone lock-in. If Nokia makes phone A but cingular doesn't like a phone A feature (ex. make your own midi or something). Cingular should have to suck it. Instead Cingular forces Nokia to remove feature...
and thus the consumer loses again

I HAVE A YODA DOLL STUCK IN MY ANUS!!!!!!!! (-1, Troll)

slashtwat (721412) | more than 9 years ago | (#12042170)

How to Remove Linux and Install Windows on Your Computer

SUMMARY
This article describes how you can remove the Linux operating system from your computer, and install a Windows operating system. This article also assumes that Linux is already installed on the hard disk using Linux native and Linux swap partitions, which are incompatible with the Windows operating system, and that there is no free space left on the drive.

Windows and Linux can coexist on the same computer. For additional information, refer to your Linux documentation.
MORE INFORMATION
To install Windows on a system that has Linux installed when you want to remove Linux, you must manually delete the partitions used by the Linux operating system. The Windows-compatible partition can be created automatically during the installation of the Windows operating system.

IMPORTANT: Before you follow the steps in this article, verify that you have a bootable disk or bootable CD-ROM for the Linux operating system, because this process completely removes the Linux operating system installed on your computer. If you intend to restore the Linux operating system at a later date, verify that you also have a good backup of all the information stored on your computer. Also, you must have a full release version of the Windows operating system you want to install.

Linux file systems use a "superblock" at the beginning of a disk partition to identify the basic size, shape, and condition of the file system.

The Linux operating system is generally installed on partition type 83 (Linux native) or 82 (Linux swap). The Linux boot manager (LILO) can be configured to start from: The hard disk Master Boot Record (MBR).
The root folder of the Linux partition.
The Fdisk tool included with Linux can be used to delete the partitions. (There are other utilities that work just as well, such as Fdisk from MS-DOS 5.0 and later, or you can delete the partitions during the installation process.) To remove Linux from your computer and install Windows: 1. Remove native, swap, and boot partitions used by Linux:a. Start your computer with the Linux setup floppy disk, type fdisk at the command prompt, and then press ENTER.

NOTE: For help using the Fdisk tool, type m at the command prompt, and then press ENTER.
b. Type p at the command prompt, and then press ENTER to display partition information. The first item listed is hard disk 1, partition 1 information, and the second item listed is hard disk 1, partition 2 information.
c. Type d at the command prompt, and then press ENTER. You are then prompted for the partition number you want to delete. Type 1, and then press ENTER to delete partition number 1. Repeat this step until all the partitions have been deleted.
d. Type w, and then press ENTER to write this information to the partition table. Some error messages may be generated as information is written to the partition table, but they should not be significant at this point because the next step is to restart the computer and then install the new operating system.
e. Type q at the command prompt, and then press ENTER to quit the Fdisk tool.
f. Insert either a bootable floppy disk or a bootable CD-ROM for the Windows operating system on your computer, and then press CTRL+ALT+DELETE to restart your computer.

2. Install Windows. Follow the installation instructions for the Windows operating system you want to install on your computer. The installation process assists you with creating the appropriate partitions on your computer.

Examples of Linux Partition Tables
Single SCSI drive
Device Boot Start End Blocks Id System /dev/sda1 * 1 500 4016218 83 Linux native (SCSI hard drive 1, partition 1) /dev/sda2 501 522 176715 82 Linux swap (SCSI hard drive 1, partition 2)

Multiple SCSI drives
Device Boot Start End Blocks Id System /dev/sda1 * 1 500 4016218 83 Linux native (SCSI hard drive 1, partition 1) /dev/sda2 501 522 176715 82 Linux swap (SCSI hard drive 1, partition 2) /dev/sdb1 1 500 4016218 83 Linux native (SCSI hard drive 2, partition 1)

Single IDE drive
Device Boot Start End Blocks Id System /dev/hda1 * 1 500 4016218 83 Linux native (IDE hard drive 1, partition 1) /dev/hda2 501 522 176715 82 Linux swap (IDE hard drive 1, partition 2)

Multiple IDE drives
Device Boot Start End Blocks Id System /dev/hda1 * 1 500 4016218 83 Linux native (IDE hard drive 1, partition 1) /dev/hda2 501 522 176715 82 Linux swap (IDE hard drive 1, partition 2) /dev/hdb1 1 500 4016218 83 Linux native (IDE hard drive 2, partition 1)

Also, Linux recognizes more than forty different partition types, such as: FAT 12 (Type 01)
FAT 16 > 32 M Primary (Type 06)
FAT 16 Extended (Type 05)
FAT 32 w/o LBA Primary (Type 0b)
FAT 32 w/LBA Primary (Type 0c)
FAT 16 w/LBA (Type 0e)
FAT 16 w/LBA Extended (Type 0f)
Note that there are other ways to remove the Linux operating system and install Windows than the one mentioned above. The preceding method is used in this article because the Linux operating system is already functioning and there is no more room on the hard disk. There are methods of changing partition sizes with software. Microsoft does not support Windows installed on partitions manipulated in this manner.

Another method of removing an operating system from the hard disk and installing a different operating system is to use an MS-DOS version 5.0 or later boot disk, a Windows 95 Startup disk, or a Windows 98 Startup disk that contains the Fdisk utility. Run the Fdisk utility. If you have multiple drives, there are 5 choices; use option 5 to select the hard disk that has the partition to be deleted. After that, or if you have only one hard disk, choose option 3 ("Delete partition or logical DOS drive"), and then choose option 4 ("Delete non-DOS partition"). You should then see the non-DOS partitions you want to delete. Typically, the Linux operating system has two non-DOS partitions, but there may be more. After you delete one partition, use the same steps to delete any other appropriate non-DOS partitions.

After the partitions are deleted, you can create partitions and install the operating system you want. You can only create one primary partition and an extended partition with multiple logical drives by using Fdisk from MS-DOS version 5.0 and later, Windows 95, and Windows 98. The maximum FAT16 primary partition size is 2 gigabytes (GB). The largest FAT16 logical drive size is 2 GB. For additional information, click the article number below to view the article in the Microsoft Knowledge Base:
105074 MS-DOS 6.2 Partitioning Questions and Answers
If you are installing Windows NT 4.0 or Windows 2000, the Linux partitions can be removed and new partitions created and formatted with the appropriate file system type during the installation process. Windows allows you to create more than one primary partition. The largest partition that Windows NT 4.0 allows you to create during installation is 4 GB because of the limitations of the FAT16 file system during installation. Also, the 4-GB partitions use 64-KB cluster sizes. MS-DOS 6.x and Windows 95 or Windows 98 do not recognize 64-KB cluster file systems, so this file system is usually converted to NTFS during installation. Windows 2000, unlike Windows NT 4.0, recognizes the FAT32 file system. During the installation of Windows 2000, you can create a very large FAT32 drive. The FAT32 drive can be converted to NTFS after the installation has completed if appropriate.

uh, me for one. (4, Insightful)

uncadonna (85026) | more than 9 years ago | (#12042178)

From the linked article; "Who wants the $500 iPod phone when you could buy a phone and an iPod for that much?" says analyst Tole Hart of researcher Gartner.

Does anybody else not understand the question? Is this guy saying I'd rather carry two gizmos than one because, I'd have, like, more stuff?

One device is less to carry (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12042206)

It'll be nice to have iTunes on the cellular network, you'll be able to drive down the highway and choose your songs from the music store. The market is "Everyone Driving". That's better than sirrius until next year.

The iPod phone would cannibalize into iPod sales. Instead of buying shuffles and minis people will just use their phones.

"Who wants the $500 iPod phone when you could buy a phone and an iPod for that much?"

Anyone who doesn't want to carry two devices in their pocket all day and wants to download new music anywhere, something you can't do right now if you have a separate iPod and phone.

might be marketing (1)

fermion (181285) | more than 9 years ago | (#12042255)

The reports on this seem to make it a marketing issue. I am wondering if there is some conflict over how this device will generate profit.

A key issue might be how the music is distributed. Maybe Apple just wants to continue having users download the songs via the computer. Perhaps the phone companies want the ability to download songs via the phone as well, to increase airtime charges. I think the telcos have been trying to push these relitively premium services. Maybe $10 additioanl to have the ability to download songs.

Of course if songs are bought through the phone and computer, this leads to which devices the songs can be used on. If the phones are harddrive based this decision might be very important. If flash based, then maybe not so much.

In any case, I would still like to see a phone the size and form of a standard iPod with Bluetooth headset and all data entry done via a computer. Since I am sure this is not on the way, I probably will just get a Razr.

WiFi phones replacing cell phones (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12042262)

A couple of months ago two of my friends who both got WiFi phones were telling me that WiFi VoIP phones will replace cell phones one day, starting in large cities. I was laughing at them.

After I eventually replaced my landline with VoIP(check out pulver or broadvoice) a couple weeks ago I thought I'd give it a try, get one of those WiFi phones, and see what all that hype is about.

Now I can't live without my WiFi phone anymore! It is awesome. I have worldwide unlimited phone wherever there is WiFi access. Most of the time the quality is crystal clear and you don't get any dropped calls anymore. Cell phones don't even come close to this!

I love that technology so much I even set up a second open access point so others who are in the neighborhood can use it with their notebooks or WiFi phones. If everyone does this we'll have near 100% coverage pretty soon. WiFi phones are simply the future available today.

Exclusive Slashdot Interview, take 2. (2, Funny)

LokieLizzy (858962) | more than 9 years ago | (#12042281)

Steve Jobs continues to revolutionize the modern world, combining the marvels of both the telecommunications industry and that of the digital music revolution.

SJ: It will change the iPod as we know it.

/.: But you've already got the iPod, the iPod mini, the iPod photo...isn't that enough?

SJ: It is never enough.

/.: But...

SJ: Hold on a sec...(whips small white device out of pocket, attaches 103-key USB keyboard ). It's the latest device in the iPod family.

/.: What is it? A Powerbook with a 64-bit processor?

SJ: No.

/.: An iPod with a user-replaceable battery?

SJ: (Scoffs). No.

/.: What *is* it???

SJ: The iPlog. A device to revolutionize blogging as we know it.

/.: Apple is truly the pinnacle of innovation.

Motorola (3, Insightful)

diggory (264503) | more than 9 years ago | (#12042283)

I've seen a lot of mobile phones - I'm in the UK - and they've been prevalent for over a decade now. One of the things that amazes me about them is this: 1 - Motorola can't make good ones. 2 - That doesn't seem to stop people buying Motorola phones. I always warn people not to buy Motorola - they are always buggy and frequently crash completely (i.e. lock-up and require rebooting.) Yet they always buy them, and regret it a few months down the line. I think it has something to do with the form-factor - people couldn't get enough of the star-tac and that was awful. I'm not surprised that they're having problems with the phone - I bet it'll be a dog once it's released as well.

downloading music on cellphone (1)

krunk4ever (856261) | more than 9 years ago | (#12042308)

DIAL MY JUKEBOX. One way would be for U.S. carriers to follow the model that has been established in Europe. There, carriers such as Vodafone (VOD ), Orange, and O2 have set up their own digital-music stores, letting customers download music tracks over the cellular network to their phones. Carriers get a slice of the $2.80 customers pay per song. Wireless players also could offer customers subscription services, with access to thousands of songs for a flat monthly fee of $15 or $20. I was just thinking, how often have you had times when you're trying to remember a song or talk about a song among friends and told them you've gotta listen to this. Wouldn't it just be great that you can online to a music store, browse and download it to listen or play it for your friends?
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