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425 comments

fp (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12064199)

fp

Darn it! (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12064204)

I just finished compiling 2004.999999!

Re:Darn it! (-1, Offtopic)

grasshoppa (657393) | more than 9 years ago | (#12064234)

Fuck the mods don't have a sense of humor tonight.

It's called humor. Look it up.

Re:Darn it! (-1, Offtopic)

Anubis350 (772791) | more than 9 years ago | (#12064259)

I think the mods are in the last one....
(taken from dictionary.com)


humor Audio pronunciation of "humor" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (hymr)
n.

1. The quality that makes something laughable or amusing; funniness: could not see the humor of the situation.
2. That which is intended to induce laughter or amusement: a writer skilled at crafting humor.
3. The ability to perceive, enjoy, or express what is amusing, comical, incongruous, or absurd. See Synonyms at wit1.
4. One of the four fluids of the body, blood, phlegm, choler, and black bile, whose relative proportions were thought in ancient and medieval physiology to determine a person's disposition and general health.
5. Physiology.
1. A body fluid, such as blood, lymph, or bile.
2. Aqueous humor.
3. Vitreous humor.
6. A person's characteristic disposition or temperament: a boy of sullen humor.
7. An often temporary state of mind; a mood: I'm in no humor to argue.
8.
1. A sudden, unanticipated whim. See Synonyms at mood1.
2. Capricious or peculiar behavior.

tr.v. humored, humoring, humors

1. To comply with the wishes or ideas of; indulge.
2. To adapt or accommodate oneself to. See Synonyms at pamper.

Idiom:
out of humor

In a bad mood; irritable.

Re:Darn it! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12064364)

Campus Crusade for Christ [uci.edu]
UCI [uci.edu]

Frosty. (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12064207)

Fristy nigra ps0t!

"Iso's" (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12064208)

The plural of ISO does not need an apostrophe, moron.

Re:"Iso's" (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12064410)

submitter appears to be following the one [or more!] of these very popular but incorrect rules:

* add an apostrophe when pluralizing an acronym

* add an apostrophe when pluralizing a word that ends in a vowel

* add an apostrophe wherever you want

link [pcshock.com]

Re:"Iso's" (-1, Offtopic)

Armadni General (869957) | more than 9 years ago | (#12064412)

I love how people try to pluralize with apostrophe's... P.S. I'm aware of the existance of that apostrope. P.P.S. I hate you.

Ugh (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12064217)

Four posts and all are trolls

Re:Ugh (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12064368)

Your ability to count astounds us all.

/If I'd gotten here quicker, it could have been five!

compile on! (4, Interesting)

qewl (671495) | more than 9 years ago | (#12064218)

Has anyone had any experiences with the lengthy compilation having a bad impact on their hard drive? I've long been wondering and considering trying Gentoo. And to those who are very experienced in Gentoo, has all the learning/tweaking/compiling been worth the extra power/costumizability in the end?

Re:compile on! (2, Insightful)

lachlan76 (770870) | more than 9 years ago | (#12064224)

It's not gonna screw with your hard drive, that shouldn't be anything to worry about.

And from my experience, yes, the time I spend compiling stuff is worth it for all the learning and flexibility in the end.

But others may disagree.

Re:compile on! (5, Insightful)

pyite (140350) | more than 9 years ago | (#12064296)

And from my experience, yes, the time I spend compiling stuff is worth it for all the learning and flexibility in the end.

Yea, it starts out that way, like six years ago when I was grabbing the GIMP from CVS on a regular basis just for fun. Then you discover Debian and recover your time, realizing that except for special cases, compiling yourself isn't worth it.

Re:compile on! (1)

lachlan76 (770870) | more than 9 years ago | (#12064311)

It's not like anything I use is particularly time critical though...I can just start compiling before I go to bed and then 99% of the time it's done by the morning.

Re:compile on! (4, Insightful)

ThJ (641955) | more than 9 years ago | (#12064454)

I agree very strongly with this. Although I'm a geek, that doesn't mean things *have* to be as complicated as possible.

The whole "learning" thing (5, Insightful)

bonch (38532) | more than 9 years ago | (#12064485)

I used to be a Gentoo guy after rolling my own LFS install. A lot of people go on and on about how Gentoo "teaches" them about Linux due to the install process, but what exactly are you learning? At most, you learn how to partition correctly. Everything else is handled with automated scripts that you just set flags for if you want to customize. When you install packages, you just emerge it, and it does all the compilation for you. So what exactly is being taught here? Just curious.

For a real good time, Linux From Scratch will actually give you insight into what's going on. No automated scripts there (though there are some available for LFS veterans who don't want to do it all again).

Re:compile on! (1)

nukem996 (624036) | more than 9 years ago | (#12064225)

Well I havnt done any bench marks but I think learning was very helpful in understanding linux. One of the best things about gentoo is portage, it is many times better then any other package system ive used (rpm deb apt etc).

Re:compile on! (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12064243)

It wont hurt your hard drive, but it might try your patience.

Re:compile on! (5, Informative)

atrader42 (687933) | more than 9 years ago | (#12064246)

I'd shift those around a bit. The only real liability I've found is the compile time (which can be pretty drastically reduced with the use of some tools. Gentoo has tutorials). I would absolutely move learning and tweaking into the power/cusomizability category (though I haven't found much of a speed improvement over pre-compiled software in most cases, so that probably isn't the best reason to try gentoo). I started out with redhat 9, and although it did what I wanted for the most part, when I had a problem, it was usually pretty hard to fix since I didn't really know what was going on. Now that I've done a couple gentoo installs, though only stage 3, I must admit, I know much better what causes certain problems. In addition, I love being always up-to-date and not having to worry about cruft.

I'm a computer science student, and love learning all I can about computers, so maybe some of those are not advantages for you. However, if you're into experimentation and the latest and greatest, gentoo is a great way to play with it all.

Re:compile on! (0, Flamebait)

OverlordQ (264228) | more than 9 years ago | (#12064418)

I started out with redhat 9, and although it did what I wanted for the most part, when I had a problem, it was usually pretty hard to fix since I didn't really know what was going on. Now that I've done a couple gentoo installs, though only stage 3, I must admit, I know much better what causes certain problems. In addition, I love being always up-to-date and not having to worry about cruft.


Yes because it's always easier to diagnose your custom compiled programs yourself instead of getting help from the 10k+ other users who use the exact same software package.

Re:compile on! (2, Interesting)

atrader42 (687933) | more than 9 years ago | (#12064551)

That was only true for me as far as official redhat packages went. As soon as I started looking for packages that weren't from Redhat (ie XMMS that plays mp3s, proprietary ati drivers), I was at the mercy of the various rpm repositories and my machine got ugly pretty quickly. Certainly this has gotten much better with Fedora and yum/apt-get, but, as I said, it's not just about having the same packages if you don't have a good idea of where your problem is or some reasonable steps to take in order to solve it.

As an aside, the best computer support I've ever had for any problem has come from the gentoo forums. I think there's an atmosphere that everyone is learning and so should be helping each other along.

Re:compile on! (2, Insightful)

Feztaa (633745) | more than 9 years ago | (#12064605)

Though I agree that you can get better support for something well-tested like a commercial distro, there is something to be said for building a distro from scratch, if your goal is to learn how the system works.

Personally, I think everybody should build LFS [linuxfromscratch.org] at least once (at least everybody who wants to learn how linux works anyway). Gentoo makes it too easy, you don't learn nothin' ;)

Re:compile on! (4, Funny)

BigBuckHunter (722855) | more than 9 years ago | (#12064249)

Why would "compilation" impact a hard drive? It has no more impact than watching lengthy porn videos (normally done during the compilation).

BBH

Re:compile on! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12064355)

lengthy porn videos

Interesting pun.

Re:compile on! (2, Informative)

John Hurliman (152784) | more than 9 years ago | (#12064258)

I don't know, I use binary packages for just about everything unless I want the latest bleeding edge stuff or it's just a small trivial package. Gentoo doesn't MAKE you compile everything, it's just the default option.

But to answer your question, I've had a fully compiled system started from stage one, and didn't have any hard drive problems. Also didn't notice any visible performance difference, but the customizability has kept me with Gentoo for a long time now.

Re:compile on! (5, Insightful)

mstromb (869949) | more than 9 years ago | (#12064270)

Let me say that I'm not a very experienced gentoo user. Not a very experienced linux user either. Oh, I've tried dabbling for the longest time, my interested started long, long ago when I found some RH5 CDs someplace.

Forward to now. Now, I'm building a media center-ish pc. Also acting as a fileserver. Uses wireless, with WPA encryption and all that cool stuff.

Now, I could have gone with some other distro and saved myself quite a bit of time (I'm reinstalling it for the 3rd time as I write this), but honestly, gentoo is just plain fun to set up and I've learned way too much for me to just put it down now.

There are tons of ways to get it started. I've always opted to use a minimal livecd, but bootstrapping from knoppix or another livecd works well too.

Portage is just awesome, the most package-specific setup you'll ever really need to do is edit a new config file. There's even a tool to let you easily merge old config files when new revisions come out. And while I don't know how much speed I'm getting out of compiling everything from source, I do know what's on my computer, as I compulsively check use flags just to see what I can do with my system. With portage, I've found incredibly useful software I never knew existed, and don't know how I lived without. It's all about choices, choices, choices. And the only penalty for changing your mind is a bit of your time.

My only bad experiences stem from me using insane compiler flags that mess up your system completely. I had no idea it was possible to screw up rm, but I managed to do it. My hardware is also not the best, I went for cheap and older components I had lying around. However, gentoo hasn't told me "no" yet, I've just needed to be clever about doing things, which has taught me a huge amount about how linux, and computers in general, work. I've always been the "computer guy" around here, but I just feel... closer ;)

So long story short, I think gentoo is really, really worth it if you've got some spare time and some curiosity.

And being able to use bleeding-edge everything is just cool.

Re:compile on! (4, Insightful)

TexVex (669445) | more than 9 years ago | (#12064286)

Are you just being silly? Think about a TiVo, which records video real-time continuously while powered on. DirecTiVo systems can and do record two video streams at times, while playing back a third. All using regular old IDE hard drives.

Compiling some software for a few hours is a drop in the bucket.

Re:compile on! (1)

iCEBaLM (34905) | more than 9 years ago | (#12064302)

Frequent read/write of a hard drive does not damage it, infact the platters would be better off the more you use it. MTBF take into account the circuitry, servos, etc. In other words-nothing to worry about.

Re:compile on! (5, Informative)

Jafar00 (673457) | more than 9 years ago | (#12064324)

If you compile Gentoo on a slower system (PII, PIII etc) you will notice a huge increase in performance over a pre-packaged system. I have a PII-366 laptop that could not play movies until I installed Gentoo on it. Sure, it took 4 days to get everything installed, but in the end the old laptop is now quite usable with a cutting edge, new OS rather than just opting for the recommended win98 ;)

Re:compile on! (1, Informative)

bonch (38532) | more than 9 years ago | (#12064460)

Unfortunately, benchmarks show that there is no marked performance boost compiling everything. Mostly, the things that affect performance most from compilation are the kernel and libc.

Meanwhile (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12064542)

Meanwhile, my old 400mhz Powerbook with Jaguar plays movies just fine.

But have fun compiling for four days and all...

fragmented fs (4, Interesting)

cryptoluddite (658517) | more than 9 years ago | (#12064393)

The only real problem I've had with gentoo is fragmentation caused by all the compiling and updating files. I think it isn't so much that the files are fragmented as spread out thin across the disk... that's because you're always compiling something and creating system files with different amounts of space in use.

I've tried different filesystems such as jfs, reiser4 (using -mm kernel), and ext3 of course and none of them really solved the problem. Reiser4 is the best overall, but suffers from several-second long pauses when doing file-io as in rebalances the tree, which can be really irritating when :wq from vi hangs for a while. The best solution I have found is to create a fairly large partition and mount tmpfs onto /tmp then bind to /usr/tmp and optionally to /usr/portage/distfiles or portage cache dir. Creating a loopback device file and putting portage on it helps but the real problem IMO is all the files from compiling. Over time this has a large impact.

Other that that gentoo is awesome. I always have more up-to-date software than any other distro, it's simple to set options for various software, and there's never any version conflicts. The only thing that ever takes any time from an administration POV is etc-update. Once you figure out the interactive merge and what files to actually care about (/etc/conf.d and /etc/fstab|rc.conf|make.conf) it goes pretty smooth, although it defitely needs some work on that part.

Re:fragmented fs (3, Informative)

bonch (38532) | more than 9 years ago | (#12064568)

I always have more up-to-date software than any other distro, it's simple to set options for various software, and there's never any version conflicts.


And people wonder why Gentoo users are stereotyped? All three of those statements aren't always true.

1.) So, where's your Gnome 2.10 then? Before anybody mentions ~x86, that's no different from unstable on Debian or just installing the package yourself on any other distro.

2.) There are sometimes configuration issues with Gentoo; they are mentioned elsewhere in this discussion. For instance, etc-update absolutely sucks and the Gentoo devs refuse to replace it with better solutions that have already been offered.

3.) Gentoo's packaging system sometimes creates versioning conflicts. I've personally had to fix a broken system twice. Check the Gentoo forums for all the other issues users sometimes have.

I'm not bashing people who use Gentoo. I'm just saying, it's not some perfect distro that does everything great. And compilation is so overrated and provides no benefits. I wiped my three year old Gentoo install once I discovered Ubuntu, so that's just me.

Re:compile on! (4, Informative)

dmayle (200765) | more than 9 years ago | (#12064473)

has all the learning/tweaking/compiling been worth the extra power/costumizability in the end

I'm an avid Gentoo user, and I've got to say, if you're only considering Gentoo for the speed/power, you might as well put some stickers on your case, because you'll probably notice a bigger speed improvement like that. Gentoo is really useful for the following reason:

  • Relatively bare-bones linux (like Linux from Scratch) but with excellent documentation. - Fantastic for learing about linux
  • Customizability - if your distro maintainers chose one route with a package that doesn't meet your needs, your stuck installing from source, and maintaining version upgrades yourself. (Being sure to keep track of config options every time) - with Gentoo, you set the appropiate config option (called USE-flags) and you're good from then on.
  • Support community - no matter who you are, sometimes you will have problems. Pretty much every problem I've ever had on Linux took a simple search on the Gentoo forums to find the solution in less than five minutes. (Even when my problems aren't on Gentoo Linux, I always search the Gentoo forums first, as they're usually more likely to contain a useful answer)
  • Available packages - Everything under the sun (and I mean, just about everything you could want) is already packaged for Gentoo. Meaning, unlike with some other distros, you won't have to go searching for someone else's packages to install what you want. It's already there, with just one line to search and install.
  • Support community - oh wait, did I mention this already? It deserves a second mention because it really is fantastic. I've never been more impressed with the amount of community help available.

Re:compile on! (1)

tempest303 (259600) | more than 9 years ago | (#12064629)

THANK YOU.

This isn't said enough. The Gentoo "ricers" are covering up the real benefits of the distro, as you've mentioned - lots of docs, a broad community, and a great repository of available packages.

I'd probably never use Gentoo myself for anything other than poking at it out of curiosity, but I can see why some people like it. They can have my Fedora CDs when they pry them from my cold, dead hands, but I have to say the package availability on Gentoo (and Debian, for that matter) makes me jealous at times.

Re:compile on! (1)

Monkelectric (546685) | more than 9 years ago | (#12064480)

I have extensive experience with gentoo, it will not harm your HD in any way.

And as far as tweaking, to me it is noticably faster then pre-compiled distros. Its also a hell of a lot of fun to mess with. If you don't care about speed, don't have to have the latest pacakges, and don't really wanna mess around -- then use mandrake or whatever people like nowadays and dont bother.

If youre like me and you wanna control exactly what gets onto your system, you cant stand knowing your programs could be going 10% faster, then gentoo is the only choice :)

Re:compile on! (1)

geminidomino (614729) | more than 9 years ago | (#12064518)

Err... how is gentoo the "only" choice when I have the exact same control with Slackware?

Re:compile on! (2, Insightful)

iamacat (583406) | more than 9 years ago | (#12064530)

In my experience, there is much more learning/tweaking on redhat side than for gentoo. For example, to install kde 3.2, just type "emerge kde". With a pre-packaged Linux distribution you would have to worry about installing countless packages missing or out of date on your system. Later you get to fix everything that broke because you upgraded its dependency to an incompatible version

With that said, the install process has several steps with no apparent purpose except for being 1337. They didn't really have to make you install cron, syslog and dhcpd, or make you deal with fstab or grub.conf.

The real problem though is configuring the kernel. Building a custom kernel is a very good idea, because you don't want your notebook to autodetect drivers for several minutes when booting, or to waste CPU cycles on compiled-in SMP support or multi-homed webserver. But Linux configuration screens are insane. Do I need an "HPET timer"? Who the hell knows?

I think the solution is to make Linux kernel modular, with drivers and subsystems that can be downloaded and compiled separately. Then we can start with a minimum kernel and emerge, say, quota support in the same way as kde.

Re:compile on! (5, Funny)

hdparm (575302) | more than 9 years ago | (#12064558)

No issues with HD. And don't worry, here is the quick howto [bash.org] , it's pretty straight forward.

That's what I like about Gentoo... (3, Interesting)

lachlan76 (770870) | more than 9 years ago | (#12064219)

...rather than have 'releases', there's just a whole lot of software which can be used in any combination from the get-go.

Re:That's what I like about Gentoo... (2, Interesting)

Zork the Almighty (599344) | more than 9 years ago | (#12064315)

That's fine for a dedicated machine, but for a general purpose desktop it's a nightmare. I honestly think Gentoo is best suited to hobbyists.

Re:That's what I like about Gentoo... (5, Informative)

Trejkaz (615352) | more than 9 years ago | (#12064344)

Actually, it's far from a nightmare on the desktop. I got sick of a few other distros mostly because of their philosophy of reinstalling every new minor release.

On Gentoo, you don't even upgrade from release to release, you just install stuff when you can be bothered and one day you find yourself on 2005.0 accidentally. Since I did my last world upgrade a day after KDE 3.4 came out, I'm probably pretty up to date by chance.

Well, I guess there is a slight difference between the releases, though. The later profiles will specify more modern default packages than the earlier ones. That doesn't have too much effect once your system is already installed, however.

Re:That's what I like about Gentoo... (2, Insightful)

Bitsy Boffin (110334) | more than 9 years ago | (#12064625)


On Gentoo, you don't even upgrade from release to release, you just install stuff when you can be bothered and one day you find yourself on 2005.0 accidentally.


With Debian...

apt-get install packageyouwanttoupgrade

no fuss, no muss, gets what is needed no more no less.

Re:That's what I like about Gentoo... (1)

vdboor (827057) | more than 9 years ago | (#12064598)

That's fine for a dedicated machine, but for a general purpose desktop it's a nightmare. I honestly think Gentoo is best suited to hobbyists.

I agree on this. Having used Gentoo for one year, SuSE is a refreshing experience for me. First I fell in love with Gentoo's continious stream of package upgrades, but I realize that SuSE's releases scheme has it's advantages.

Each new SuSE release I have a fully tested and integrated system. No longer do I have to worry about some upgrade breaking something else. And worth mentioning, I have have Xorg 6.8, KDE 3.4, gcc 3.4, udev, and awsome hardware support, all for free from FTP. and without any nightly compiles.

(in the time I need to compile KDE 3.4RC1, SuSE had their packages released!)

Bye bye Gentoo users! (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12064220)

Have fun compiling! See you when 2006.0 comes out!

Re:Bye bye Gentoo users! (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12064531)

It's the Gentoo Circle of Life.

Woohoo! (0, Troll)

Tarcastil (832141) | more than 9 years ago | (#12064221)

Maybe this will silence the fanboys. It's wishful thinking.

Gentoo users need to do more (3, Interesting)

BigBuckHunter (722855) | more than 9 years ago | (#12064231)

Don't current Gentoo users have to change the symlink of their /etc/make.profile to point to the 2005.0 profile under /usr/portage/profiles? Then emerge sync, then emerge -uD world? Then fix_libtool_dependancies.sh... Then revdep-rebuild... Then Emerge --prune some of the old slotted apps that they don't need anymore?


Sincerely Yours
An "Actual" Gentoo user.

Re:Gentoo users need to do more (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12064247)

Sincerely Yours
An "Actual" Gentoo user.


So you do more with it than compiling and recompiling all day long?
.
.
.
.
.
.
(I'm just kidding! Really!)

Re:Gentoo users need to do more (0)

Zork the Almighty (599344) | more than 9 years ago | (#12064254)

Then watch your system break if you were using a much older profile.

Re:Gentoo users need to do more (4, Informative)

Stalyn (662) | more than 9 years ago | (#12064321)

please check here [gentoo.org] .

just sub 2004.3 for 2005.0.

Re:Gentoo users need to do more (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12064331)

I have no fucking clue what you just meant. And you wonder why people in Windows world stay happy with their lot!

It *did* sounds techie though, kudos. :oD

Gentoo liveCD? (0, Redundant)

Dancin_Santa (265275) | more than 9 years ago | (#12064232)

Anyone ever thought of putting Gentoo into LiveCD-type format, ala Knoppix?

You could have custom-tailored Linux installation on any hardware with little more than swapping in a CD.

As they say in Robocop, I'd buy that for a dollar.

Re:Gentoo liveCD? (2, Informative)

lachlan76 (770870) | more than 9 years ago | (#12064237)

Uhhh...what?

Gentoo is already on a livecd, which you boot from. Then you chroot into your hard drive for the install. Is that sort of what you meant?

Re:Gentoo liveCD = Catalyst (2, Informative)

yamcha666 (519244) | more than 9 years ago | (#12064281)

The Gentoo people are already ahead of you.

The software is called Catalyst. More info here [gentoo.org] .

Riceness (1)

Nmcsween (852156) | more than 9 years ago | (#12064241)

Ricers Start Your Engines. No in all seriousness gentoo has a great package manager except when dealing with revese dependencies it's great. rice http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-309752.html

feel teh power of source distributions! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12064274)

http://funroll-loops.org/

New but better? (2, Insightful)

jefedesign (869140) | more than 9 years ago | (#12064261)

I have given Gentoo several attempts and have floundered each time because of hardware issues. It would be nice to have a distro that recognized all my hardware with minimal configuration. Gentoo is still a little scary for my Mepis oriented thinking.

Re:New but better? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12064307)

Sorry if this sounds harsh, but you either have to change your expectations or stay away from gentoo.

Gentoo is not meant to be a distro that recognizes everything out of the box and configures it for you, it is meant to give you the tools to do it yourself.

Whether you feel setting up everything yourself is worth it, or like me think it is a wayste of time is up to you, but it certainly not gentoos fault. Judge gentoo for what it is, not for something it can't be and isn't meant to be.

Re:New but better? (2, Informative)

grishnav (522003) | more than 9 years ago | (#12064466)

Ubuntu is really great like that. It's what I use when I don't have the time/motivation to do a Gentoo install (and then normally just wish I'd done the gentoo install when I can't have Gaim+OTR, mplayer+codecs, etc. without grabbing the tgz's, hunting down the deps, and putting it all together myself instead of just 'emerge gaim-otr', 'emerge mplayer'... oh well).

Anyway, Ubuntu has up to date packages, uses a nice interface to apt, and has really excellent hardware detection. It's as brainless to install as Windows and just about as easy to use. I like it much.

KDE 3.4 (1)

Zork the Almighty (599344) | more than 9 years ago | (#12064265)

I'm reinstalling Gentoo after some time away from it. Is KDE 3.4 in the default tree yet ?

Re:KDE 3.4 (3, Informative)

Jafar00 (673457) | more than 9 years ago | (#12064299)

3.4 is there but masked. The current stable version according to portage is 3.3.2. I'm sure in a few weeks, I will wake up to a new KDE and a smoking CPU after all that compiling. Funny thing is, I use Xfce these days. ;)

Re:KDE 3.4 (1)

Zork the Almighty (599344) | more than 9 years ago | (#12064326)

I've always wanted to try Xfce, but it seems like underkill on a modern machine. What are your impressions of it ?

Re:KDE 3.4 (2, Informative)

aconbere (802137) | more than 9 years ago | (#12064369)

honestly XFCE 4.2 is one the nicest, cleanest and most stable Window Manager/ Desktop Environments I've found and I've tried them all. It's crisp clean and simple, doesn't come with a whole slew of deps (ie no ancient mozilla dependancies that I'm never going to use).

then to top it off, it has taken a clue from the *box's and the like and made using workspaces more than just an eye-candy toy, making it easy to scroll through workspaces, or to set keys to do so. It doesn't steal key configs as gnome does (F1?). and last but not least it's FAST.

Anders

Re:KDE 3.4 (1)

Kaenneth (82978) | more than 9 years ago | (#12064527)

Compiling software on install is OK, but why not...

Compile on Demand!

Every mouse click, keystroke or network packet causes a recompilation of the code module being called!

distcc could be used to make it even faster!

Re:KDE 3.4 (1)

sffubs (561863) | more than 9 years ago | (#12064313)

Yes, although it's probably not marked stable yet.

Re:KDE 3.4 (1)

lachlan76 (770870) | more than 9 years ago | (#12064322)

Last time I checked, it's there but masked.

add this to /etc/portage/package.keywords (4, Informative)

rkcallaghan (858110) | more than 9 years ago | (#12064399)

paste this block in to your /etc/portage/package.keywords to get KDE 3.4.0
# unmasking kde 3.4.0
=kde-base/kde-3.4.0 ~x86
=kde-base/kdeartwork-3.4.0 ~x86
=kde-base/kdebase-3.4.0 ~x86
=kde-base/arts-3.4.0 ~x86
=kde-base/kdebase-pam-4 ~x86
=kde-base/kdelibs-3.4.0 ~x86
=kde-base/kdegames-3.4.0 ~x86
=kde-base/kdepim-3.4.0-r1 ~x86
=kde-base/kdewebdev-3.4.0 ~x86
=kde-base/kdegraphics-3.4.0 ~x86
=kde-base/kdenetwork-3.4.0 ~x86
=kde-base/kdetoys-3.4.0 ~x86
=kde-base/kdeadmin-3.4.0 ~x86
=kde-base/kdemultimedia-3.4.0 ~x86
>=media-libs/xine-lib-1.0 ~x86
=kde-base/kdeaddons-3.4.0 ~x86
=kde-base/kdeedu-3.4.0 ~x86
>=dev-libs/boost-1.32 ~x86
=kde-base/kdeutils-3.4.0 ~x86

Split ebuilds (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12064602)

Don't do that, use the new split ebuilds.

For those of you who want ease of install (4, Informative)

vectorian798 (792613) | more than 9 years ago | (#12064267)

Try this out:
Vidalinux [vidalinux.com]

Apparently it's Gentoo, with a nice graphical installer that is no longer cruel and unusual punishment...although the install of Gentoo teaches you quite a bit.

Yes, you get the benefits of portage.

Just wait a little for a new version based on 2005

Oh, and I just (4, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12064279)

No, really, I didn't just finish compiling whatever. Anyway, as a lot of people still don't seem to understand, release don't mean anything if you've got gentoo allready installed, as you can keep it up to date with emerge sync and emerge -u world, that's all there is to it.

Releases only mean something for people wanting to install gentoo, although it is no proplem to install from an older medium, you'll still get an uptodate system in the end.

However, what is great about new releases is that they mean new and uptodate binary packages, so if you just want to install gentoo quickly and still have an uptodate system, here is your chance.

Btw., wasn't this release supposed to feature at least a preview of the upcoming installer? Any word on that?

Hmph (0, Offtopic)

neypo (860979) | more than 9 years ago | (#12064290)

GoatSE Linux was released and you dont see that on the front page of slashdot.

Re:Hmph (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12064335)

It's been deemed insecure (too many BACK DOORS) ------- get it?????????

just about through with gentoo (4, Interesting)

SuperBanana (662181) | more than 9 years ago | (#12064356)

Pardon a little rant, but gentoo is about to get wiped off all my remaining linux boxen. I've already taken the hard drive out of the gateway and popped in m0n0wall, a CD-based firewall that is the bee's knees and works much more smoothly. Thank god I don't have to deal with the monstrosity that is the webmin "user interface"(aka 5 billion gif images for no particular reason). Oh if only it supported config-on-usb-key!

Last night I updated apache and a bunch of other things (I use the unstable branch because "stable" lags, big time, on many packages I need; yes, I can manually unmask those certain packages, but that wouldn't have solved the particular problem I'm about to describe).

I run etc-update, which absolutely blows chunks and has for years; for example, ALL of /etc is protected. So maybe webmin comes along and touches 70 config files. You're then treated to trying to approve those 70 files along with other files that were also changed by other emerge updates. Attempts to provide better alternatives have been staunchly blocked; cfg-update has been trying to get into portage, but the gentoo team have been sitting on their asses for over two years [gentoo.org] . Piss-poor configuration management is one sure fire way to get me off your distro, because it's the biggest potential problem maker. PS- not everyone installs X on their servers, guys.

All is well, or so I think. Overnight, the power fails. I go to show someone photos on the server, connection refused. Huh?

Apache's not running. Hmm. 'apache2 start'.

That spits out a big tirade about how my commonapache2.conf file "is present in the old location" and I need to update the current configuration files and remove the commmonapache2.conf file. Then tells me to see this page [gentoo.org] which tells me about all the internal details, none of which I give a fuck about; I want a simple 1-2-3 migration, and they're yacking about recompiling everything, but they don't actually tell you what versions of everything you need to have at a minimum for that package to "understand" their changes. The page claims mod_php isn't ready for these changes yet (which is not true anymore, I later discover), so I panic and try going back to older versions of everything. More carnage and wasted time compiling.

It then takes me 2 hours to sort out the mess because they've got HARD LINKS to some directories, soft links to others, there's a full configuration file tree in /usr/lib/apache2, there's no clear delineation between the "common" and (???) apache conf files, their migration page claims the server root changed to /usr/lib/apache2 but it really didn't, it's all still in /etc/apache2/...Oh, mod_user_dir for no particular good reason now has to be TURNED ON with a -D option. I spend another 30 minutes fixing all the crap that was in my old apache configuration files, because apache2's error messages consist of "an access directive prohibited you from loading that". WHAT access directive? Or, my personal favorite, an "internal server error". Whee.

It's a unholy mess (at least part of it is apache's fault, for having one of the worst configuration schemes and error handling I've ever dealt with) and I was completely caught off guard- why? Because as portage merges things, if there are extremely important notes printed to the console, but so is EVERY detail about a compile along with all the files that are being merged/unmerged/whatevered...so chances are, it scrolls right out of the terminal buffer. At the end of a multiple-package emerge, there's no one block of text that says "IMPORTANT STUFF CHANGED".

I used to think the compile-from-source stuff was a godsend, but lately, it's nothing but a curse. I run a sync and then emerge -up world, and I get a list 3 pages long of mostly minor little version bumps. Fantastic- because half of them are going to present fresh configuration files, so for the fifty billionth time, I'll have to tell it "no, do NOT overwrite my bind.conf file..." and "YES, FINE, change /etc/mime.conf as always". Arrrggg!

Calm down (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12064395)

First off, I agree with some of the things you say, while I personally don't find etc-update to be that hard (It just gives you a list of the config files that can be updated and you can then simply choose the ones you don't want to be updated, that is most of the times the ones you edited yourself and then update the rest automatically), it sure isn't the ideal way of doing things.

Also the important messages scrolling by has been a problem for ages and still hasn't been addressed, which is a shame.

And I also agree that gentoo's handling of web things like apache, php, wordpress, etc. is far from ideal. (webapp-config, how I hate you).

But there is one thing that really makes a lot of your critizism mute, you are running an unstable system and complain about breakage and constant updates. Come on, that's just silly.

And contrary to what you seem to think, there is no situation that requires you to run an unstable system, especially if this system is a server. If you think you need some unstable apps, fine, gentoo gives you the tools to just install those unstable apps and leave everything else stable, if you refuse to use these tools, don't complain, it is entirely your fault.

Re:just about through with gentoo (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12064408)

Gentoo has no "unstable" branch in the sense you present it here. You can choose to install software marked as unstable (in the opinion of the individual ebuild maintainers). You claim to say you understand this concept, but you mix up the ideas of unstable and unmasked packages.

dispatch-conf is the sensible alternative to etc-update - check it out (it's been around for a long time now).

Gentoo is, and always has been, billed as a distro for advanced users with time to maintain it.

You are using the wrong tool for the job - SuSE or Debian, or even *BSD seems more appropiate for what you require.

Re:just about through with gentoo (1)

EzInKy (115248) | more than 9 years ago | (#12064576)

Gentoo has no "unstable" branch in the sense you present it here. You can choose to install software marked as unstable (in the opinion of the individual ebuild maintainers). You claim to say you understand this concept, but you mix up the ideas of unstable and unmasked packages.

I've had ACCEPT_KEWORDS="~arch" in my make.conf since it was introduced so am essentially running an unstable branch of Gentoo. I guess that is the unstable to which the grandparent referring. Why he is surprised by breakage when he does so though is whole other story.

Re:just about through with gentoo (1)

Zorilla (791636) | more than 9 years ago | (#12064584)

You are using the wrong tool for the job - SuSE or Debian, or even *BSD seems more appropiate for what you require.

I hate it when I see people say this. If he's using Gentoo, I'm sure he's very aware of the easier-to-use distros. You're basically telling him to stop playing chess and go back to fucking Chutes and Ladders. What an insult.

Improper usage should not be modded up. (1)

Stalyn (662) | more than 9 years ago | (#12064411)

Its common practice to not use the ~arch flags in /etc/make.conf for ACCEPTED_KEYWORDS. This is basically the flag for an unstable branch. Especially if you are running a server you should stick with stable. I use unstable tho and never really had any problems. Then again I've been using Gentoo since 2002. If there were packages you needed that were not in stable you should have used package.unmask.

Also just doing etc-update then signing off on every file to be overwritten isn't a good idea. I normally do etc-update and see what files its trying to update. Especially if I was running a server I'd backup my config files.

On a side not Gentoo I think isn't that great for servers. I'd stick with slack or debian. However for desktops its pretty nice and clean.

Re:just about through with gentoo (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12064445)

gentoo is teh sux0r!

i can't wait to read the reviews... (1, Funny)

ralinx (305484) | more than 9 years ago | (#12064357)

... in a week when the first person finishes compiling it ;)

Gentoy is completely unprofessional (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12064361)

Documentation? Who needs it! We have webforums where you can talk to AOL carders about Lunix without fear of being TOS'd by AOL WIZARDS.

Fresh gentoo, old debian (1, Interesting)

Fossilet (735452) | more than 9 years ago | (#12064372)

Gentoo seems is always fresh, while my Debian is somewhat old ... Despite compiling time, i would have been using Gentoo instead of debian for 1~ year.

Re:Fresh gentoo, old debian (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12064402)

"Despite compiling time, i would have been using Gentoo instead of debian for 1~ year."

This might just explain why your debian is old. :D

Re:Fresh gentoo, old debian (2, Insightful)

EzInKy (115248) | more than 9 years ago | (#12064492)

Gentoo seems is always fresh, while my Debian is somewhat old ... Despite compiling time, i would have been using Gentoo instead of debian for 1~ year.

You know I've been running Gentoo since '92 with "~arch" in my make.conf as my main distro while keeping a Debian unstable partition around for the occasional portage borkings and I must say you are so totally wrong. Anyone who uses Sid and a handful of unofficial repositories will be almost as current as Gentoo "~arch".

That said though, I do still prefer compiling free software from scratch and Gentoo is the natural choice. As far as all the compile time jokes most smaller packages don't take much longer on a fast processor to emerge than to apt-get a binary. Large ones like KDE are another story but then again your system is still usable while they build in the background.

Using Gentoo since '92?? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12064609)

Please say you meant since '02. We hate (ahem, reward) karma whores and trolls around here.

Re:Fresh gentoo, old debian (1)

iwbcman (603788) | more than 9 years ago | (#12064621)

"You know I've been running Gentoo since '92 with "~arch" in my make.conf as my main distro....."

Really? Gosh I didn't know that either Gentoo or Debian even existed in 1992..... ;)

Gnome 2.10? (0, Troll)

dcstimm (556797) | more than 9 years ago | (#12064390)

And still no Gnome 2.10! Come on gentoo what happened to you being up to date?

Re:Gnome 2.10? (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12064436)

Jesus, Gnome 2.10 has been available for quite some time now. It's just masked, that is all.

So if you want it, unmask it (should be 2 minutes or work) and install it, but let the people that want to have a stable system have their stable system.

For those demanding s.th. that does not feel beta (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12064429)

An not yet so well known alternative build system is the T2 Project [t2-project.org] . It is not yet another distribution, but a flexible build kit that allows the automated build includiign optimization exactly for your target CPU. Unlike Gentoo it features cross buidls (e.g. to target PDAs and new architectures) and target defintions to save the way you want you distribution build together for the next turn.

The package format is way cleaner and consist of a clean key/value pair file instead of the code filled ebuild.

T2 is very mature and mainly targetting the professional embedded and custom server security and high performance clustering departments - however it is used to build normal home desktops just fine.

Re:For those demanding s.th. that does not feel be (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12064464)

Oh and as I see from the comments KDE 3.4.0 and GNOME 2.10 are "masked" (that is per default hidden) in Gentoo - in T2 they are the shipped out of the box ...

Broken system? (2, Informative)

Billly Gates (198444) | more than 9 years ago | (#12064453)

I did an emerge --sync and an emerge -u world just a few hours ago.

I wonder if this new release is why autoconf became broken and why I can't compile anything,

Re:Broken system? (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12064528)

Why should it?
I don't think new releases have anything to do with things breaking or not breaking in the gentoo tree, they are just stabilized snapshots of the tree, but don't influence the tree the least.

That said, what's wrong with autoconf, any link to a bug report, forum discussion? And is it broken in the stable tree, or are you running an unstable system?

GUI installer - not this time around (2, Insightful)

nighty5 (615965) | more than 9 years ago | (#12064488)

I'm a big fan of Gentoo, I run it on my laptop and my file server, its a shame that the GUI installer didnt make it into this build...

Although the console install process certainly teaches new users of linux new tricks it might help gain some traction into the linux market to help raise awareness of the project.

Hopefully the next build will make it :)

Good work guys!

How Ironic (3, Funny)

Ctrl+Alt+De1337 (837964) | more than 9 years ago | (#12064506)

It's always ironic to me wherever Gentoo is discussed on Slashdot because Gentoo has struck me as the ultimate RTFM distribution. Think about that for a second. RTFM required + Slashdot = ...

question, (1)

pair-a-noyd (594371) | more than 9 years ago | (#12064573)

can it be installed on a PIII with 256mb ram and an 8gb hdd?

I tried this an 8gb drive once before but it never worked because it was a few years ago, the docs were flawed with bad directions and the pc was a PI/133, after about a week of compiling it just crapped out and I gave up and installed Damn Small Linux..

Re:question, (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12064618)

Should be no problem and the gentoo docs are really good now.

I don't know why I hadn't thought of this before (4, Interesting)

blonde rser (253047) | more than 9 years ago | (#12064583)

Does anybody else think that the combination of torrent and emerge (or torrent and apt-get for that matter) would be a great match? I mean transfers are pretty quick already but this way the bandwidth loads from updates can be passed around with out a serious security risk. Bah I'm probably just being an idiot.

honest question (0, Offtopic)

bhima (46039) | more than 9 years ago | (#12064591)

I'm a current OS X user and I have recently come into an older PIII box. I've used SuSE in the past but now it's just to big for my needs.

So what's a small distro that I can use? I'm leaning towards Arch Linux can anyone comment on it?

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