Beta
×

Welcome to the Slashdot Beta site -- learn more here. Use the link in the footer or click here to return to the Classic version of Slashdot.

Thank you!

Before you choose to head back to the Classic look of the site, we'd appreciate it if you share your thoughts on the Beta; your feedback is what drives our ongoing development.

Beta is different and we value you taking the time to try it out. Please take a look at the changes we've made in Beta and  learn more about it. Thanks for reading, and for making the site better!

New York Court Says Telecommuters Must Pay NY Tax

timothy posted more than 9 years ago | from the different-golden-rule-entirely dept.

The Almighty Buck 810

hal9000(jr) writes "The Boston Globe is running this story on an out-of-state programmer working for a New York company who had to pay state taxes. '"New York has the right to tax 100% of a nonresident employee's income derived from New York sources," according to the 4-3 decision by Court of Appeals. The court relied on a fairness rule called the "convenience of the employer" under law that says a worker's income is taxable if he chooses to live outside the state, as opposed to if he or she was transferred there.' The dissenting opinion: 'Judge Robert Smith argued that the basis of the majority's decision that all income is taxable is "that the commissioner says it is ... The majority cites no authority at all, and offers no persuasive reason, in support of this new interpretation."'"

Sorry! There are no comments related to the filter you selected.

GNAA Mourns Passing of Litigious Nigger (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12083768)

GNAA Mourns Passing of Litigious Nigger

Famed nigger icon Johnnie Cochran passed away today following an extended and erotic bout with highly potent Gay Nigger AIDS. Reports from his surviving harem of young black males indicate that Cochran first received the holy seed last year at a secret ceremony in Japan.

"Cochran was a willing recipient of my AIDS-infested manly output," said GNAA president Timecop, pausing from his breakfast of collard greens and discarded shorts.

"I will always remember his shaft as being particularly wide and penetrating," admitted famed African JiZZy to an uninterested Popeyes phone operator, referring to a 2003 sweaty encounter with Johnnie in a Kansas City shower. In IRC, elite nubian malaclypse lauded the departed lawyer, stating "HE STOLE FROM THE JEWS AND GAVE TO THE POOR" and then ejaculating all over his monitor. "That's the third time this month," remarked resident sex-slave Grog, who eagerly lapped up the spilled seed.

Special services for Cochran will be held in the official channel of GNAA, #gnaa on irc.gnaa.us. Attendees are invited to bring bottles of EROS brand lubricant and Macintosh computers for the following festivities. Female creatures need not apply.

About Johnnie Cochran

Johnnie Cochran was born to a family of former slaves in 1937. Throughout his youth he came into contact with many of GNAA's agents, who successfully inculcated the values of trolling and homosexuality in his fertile mind.

Cochran's trolling career started in 1995 with his successful defeat of the odious female Marsha Clark in a Los Angeles courtroom. Though America subsequently had a nice day, Cochran continued to be an object of much masturbation and insertion among loyal gay niggers everywhere.


About GNAA:
GNAA (GAY NIGGER ASSOCIATION OF AMERICA) is the first organization which gathers GAY NIGGERS from all over America and abroad for one common goal - being GAY NIGGERS.

Are you GAY [klerck.org] ?
Are you a NIGGER [mugshots.org] ?
Are you a GAY NIGGER [gay-sex-access.com] ?

If you answered "Yes" to all of the above questions, then GNAA (GAY NIGGER ASSOCIATION OF AMERICA) might be exactly what you've been looking for!
Join GNAA (GAY NIGGER ASSOCIATION OF AMERICA) today, and enjoy all the benefits of being a full-time GNAA member.
GNAA (GAY NIGGER ASSOCIATION OF AMERICA) is the fastest-growing GAY NIGGER community with THOUSANDS of members all over United States of America and the World! You, too, can be a part of GNAA if you join today!

Why not? It's quick and easy - only 3 simple steps!
  • First, you have to obtain a copy of GAYNIGGERS FROM OUTER SPACE THE MOVIE [imdb.com] and watch it. You can download the movie [idge.net] (~130mb) using BitTorrent.
  • Second, you need to succeed in posting a GNAA First Post [wikipedia.org] on slashdot.org [slashdot.org] , a popular "news for trolls" website.
  • Third, you need to join the official GNAA irc channel #GNAA on irc.gnaa.us, and apply for membership.
Talk to one of the ops or any of the other members in the channel to sign up today! Upon submitting your application, you will be required to submit links to your successful First Post, and you will be tested on your knowledge of GAYNIGGERS FROM OUTER SPACE.

If you are having trouble locating #GNAA, the official GAY NIGGER ASSOCIATION OF AMERICA irc channel, you might be on a wrong irc network. The correct network is NiggerNET, and you can connect to irc.gnaa.us as our official server. Follow this link [irc] if you are using an irc client such as mIRC.

If you have mod points and would like to support GNAA, please moderate this post up.

.________________________________________________.
| ______________________________________._a,____ | Press contact:
| _______a_._______a_______aj#0s_____aWY!400.___ | Gary Niger
| __ad#7!!*P____a.d#0a____#!-_#0i___.#!__W#0#___ | gary_niger@gnaa.us [mailto]
| _j#'_.00#,___4#dP_"#,__j#,__0#Wi___*00P!_"#L,_ | GNAA Corporate Headquarters
| _"#ga#9!01___"#01__40,_"4Lj#!_4#g_________"01_ | 143 Rolloffle Avenue
| ________"#,___*@`__-N#____`___-!^_____________ | Tarzana, California 91356
| _________#1__________?________________________ |
| _________j1___________________________________ | All other inquiries:
| ____a,___jk_GAY_NIGGER_ASSOCIATION_OF_AMERICA_ | Enid Al-Punjabi
| ____!4yaa#l___________________________________ | enid_al_punjabi@gnaa.us [mailto]
| ______-"!^____________________________________ | GNAA World Headquarters
` _______________________________________________' 160-0023 Japan Tokyo-to Shinjuku-ku Nishi-Shinjuku 3-20-2

Copyright (c) 2003-2005 Gay Nigger Association of America [www.gnaa.us]

GNAA FP (-1, Troll)

tehdely (690619) | more than 9 years ago | (#12083771)

GNAA Mourns Passing of Litigious Nigger
GNAA Mourns Passing of Litigious Nigger

Famed nigger icon Johnnie Cochran passed away today following an extended and erotic bout with highly potent Gay Nigger AIDS. Reports from his surviving harem of young black males indicate that Cochran first received the holy seed last year at a secret ceremony in Japan.

"Cochran was a willing recipient of my AIDS-infested manly output," said GNAA president Timecop, pausing from his breakfast of collard greens and discarded shorts.

"I will always remember his shaft as being particularly wide and penetrating," admitted famed African JiZZy to an uninterested Popeyes phone operator, referring to a 2003 sweaty encounter with Johnnie in a Kansas City shower. In IRC, elite nubian malaclypse lauded the departed lawyer, stating "HE STOLE FROM THE JEWS AND GAVE TO THE POOR" and then ejaculating all over his monitor. "That's the third time this month," remarked resident sex-slave Grog, who eagerly lapped up the spilled seed.

Special services for Cochran will be held in the official channel of GNAA, #gnaa on irc.gnaa.us. Attendees are invited to bring bottles of EROS brand lubricant and Macintosh computers for the following festivities. Female creatures need not apply.

About Johnnie Cochran

Johnnie Cochran was born to a family of former slaves in 1937. Throughout his youth he came into contact with many of GNAA's agents, who successfully inculcated the values of trolling and homosexuality in his fertile mind.

Cochran's trolling career started in 1995 with his successful defeat of the odious female Marsha Clark in a Los Angeles courtroom. Though America subsequently had a nice day, Cochran continued to be an object of much masturbation and insertion among loyal gay niggers everywhere.


About GNAA:
GNAA (GAY NIGGER ASSOCIATION OF AMERICA) is the first organization which gathers GAY NIGGERS from all over America and abroad for one common goal - being GAY NIGGERS.

Are you GAY [klerck.org] ?
Are you a NIGGER [mugshots.org] ?
Are you a GAY NIGGER [gay-sex-access.com] ?

If you answered "Yes" to all of the above questions, then GNAA (GAY NIGGER ASSOCIATION OF AMERICA) might be exactly what you've been looking for!
Join GNAA (GAY NIGGER ASSOCIATION OF AMERICA) today, and enjoy all the benefits of being a full-time GNAA member.
GNAA (GAY NIGGER ASSOCIATION OF AMERICA) is the fastest-growing GAY NIGGER community with THOUSANDS of members all over United States of America and the World! You, too, can be a part of GNAA if you join today!

Why not? It's quick and easy - only 3 simple steps!
  • First, you have to obtain a copy of GAYNIGGERS FROM OUTER SPACE THE MOVIE [imdb.com] and watch it. You can download the movie [idge.net] (~130mb) using BitTorrent.
  • Second, you need to succeed in posting a GNAA First Post [wikipedia.org] on slashdot.org [slashdot.org] , a popular "news for trolls" website.
  • Third, you need to join the official GNAA irc channel #GNAA on irc.gnaa.us, and apply for membership.
Talk to one of the ops or any of the other members in the channel to sign up today! Upon submitting your application, you will be required to submit links to your successful First Post, and you will be tested on your knowledge of GAYNIGGERS FROM OUTER SPACE.

If you are having trouble locating #GNAA, the official GAY NIGGER ASSOCIATION OF AMERICA irc channel, you might be on a wrong irc network. The correct network is NiggerNET, and you can connect to irc.gnaa.us as our official server. Follow this link [irc] if you are using an irc client such as mIRC.

If you have mod points and would like to support GNAA, please moderate this post up.

.________________________________________________.
| ______________________________________._a,____ | Press contact:
| _______a_._______a_______aj#0s_____aWY!400.___ | Gary Niger
| __ad#7!!*P____a.d#0a____#!-_#0i___.#!__W#0#___ | gary_niger@gnaa.us [mailto]
| _j#'_.00#,___4#dP_"#,__j#,__0#Wi___*00P!_"#L,_ | GNAA Corporate Headquarters
| _"#ga#9!01___"#01__40,_"4Lj#!_4#g_________"01_ | 143 Rolloffle Avenue
| ________"#,___*@`__-N#____`___-!^_____________ | Tarzana, California 91356
| _________#1__________?________________________ |
| _________j1___________________________________ | All other inquiries:
| ____a,___jk_GAY_NIGGER_ASSOCIATION_OF_AMERICA_ | Enid Al-Punjabi
| ____!4yaa#l___________________________________ | enid_al_punjabi@gnaa.us [mailto]
| ______-"!^____________________________________ | GNAA World Headquarters
` _______________________________________________' 160-0023 Japan Tokyo-to Shinjuku-ku Nishi-Shinjuku 3-20-2

Copyright (c) 2003-2005 Gay Nigger Association of America [www.gnaa.us]

So does this mean .. (3, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12083775)

He will get taxed the NY Income Tax AND where he is currently located? That would suck.

Re:So does this mean .. (-1, Troll)

Godman (767682) | more than 9 years ago | (#12083807)

I'm sorry, I couldn't here you over all the shouting about gay niggers...what did you say?

Re:So does this mean .. (0, Troll)

Bingo Foo (179380) | more than 9 years ago | (#12083826)

Welcome to AmeriDDDuh!

Re:So does this mean .. (2, Insightful)

einhverfr (238914) | more than 9 years ago | (#12083989)

He will get taxed the NY Income Tax AND where he is currently located?

I see a case coming before the US Supreme Court. I didn't think the states were supposed to regulate interstate comerce, but IANAL.

Seriously, lets say I am a consultant and have a customer in Greece and I telecommute. The Greek government wants me to pay Greek income tax. The US wants me to pay US income tax. BTW, this is how I read the Greek tax regulations, but again IANAL.

Lets say I am a web hosting provider, does the same thing happen?

The problem I see here is that if you extend this from employees to income in general, you have a major headache on your hands, and in the end many states will lose funds.

Furthermore, how do you define the location where the income is derived? Does physical presence matter? What about a home office that a telecommuter has? How is this different from a one-room office that only holds a server to which the telecommuters connect? Does this mean that I can avoid income taxes by having my data center and only office building in Washington State, but live in Oregon where I don't pay sales tax?

Flawed logic (5, Insightful)

mikethefreak (735706) | more than 9 years ago | (#12083800)

By the same logic, it's for my (and all my coworkers') convenience that the Delaware based media company I work for's main office is in NYC and therefore I should ask NYS for a refund for the past 4 years. This is a dangerous precedent. -Mike

Re:Flawed logic (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12083919)

man it must suck to be an american!

Re:Flawed logic (2, Interesting)

mikethefreak (735706) | more than 9 years ago | (#12083974)

man it must suck to be an american!
Yes. Yes it does. Dealing with the idiotic conflicts between states and federalism is the absolute worst thing. The feds refuse to step in issues where they should and refuse (over-zealous state taxing authorities) and refuse to yield their power to the states where they should (recently the whole Schiavo thing, but other things too). -Mike

Re:Flawed logic (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12084015)

If you don't like living in the United STATES then LEAVE. Perhaps its you who do not understand what issues are STATE issues and what issues are FEDERAL.

Re:Flawed logic (2, Interesting)

Eberlin (570874) | more than 9 years ago | (#12084022)

The concept is rather odd, but if we extend this out far enough (slippery slope, I know, but humor me for a few seconds here) -- all that offshoring and outsourcing business could generate the US a bit more revenue in taxes, right? I mean

Don't get me wrong, I do think it's quite the show of force do so such a thing (and equally stupid)...but I'm guessing that something has to be done to make offshoring less economically attractive to companies who still only look at proverbial bottom line.

Re:Flawed logic (1)

einhverfr (238914) | more than 9 years ago | (#12084056)

The concept is rather odd, but if we extend this out far enough (slippery slope, I know, but humor me for a few seconds here) -- all that offshoring and outsourcing business could generate the US a bit more revenue in taxes, right? I mean

That is exactly what companies like Greece have tried to do. In general it is largely unenforceable. Indeed Greece wants to tax residents on all income from any source, and all foreigners' income derived in Greece.... IANAL, though. This is just what I have read.

Hrm, I wonder. (1)

EvilStein (414640) | more than 9 years ago | (#12083810)

He lived in the state of TN... what were his taxes like there? Doesn't New York hit you for only a certain percentage? The article made it sound like his entire income was taxable. is it taxable in both states?
That would royally suck and would certainly scare me off of doing any interstate telecommuting gigs. Yikes.

This is kind of like Washington going after people that go across to Oregon to shop. (Or people that live in one state and cross the river to work in the other) - can't have teh cake and eat it too.

Re:Hrm, I wonder. (1)

mikethefreak (735706) | more than 9 years ago | (#12083842)

TN taxes are 0 if I recall.... Oh wait here we go there are only taxes on Dividends and interest only [taxadmin.org] . -Mike

Re:Hrm, I wonder. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12084041)

Dont worry states that do this earn the income in other ways. Such as 'fees&tags', property, and sales taxs.

That there is no state tax does not mean he is not paying less... He just pays it differently...

Re:Hrm, I wonder. (1)

mondaypickle (739774) | more than 9 years ago | (#12083884)

TN has no state income tax

Re:Hrm, I wonder. (1)

NoMercy (105420) | more than 9 years ago | (#12084020)

Well if NY does it, I guess people telecommuting to TN should pay no tax if they live in NY... uhh I can't see them liking that one :)

Washington, Oregon (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12083950)

This is kind of like Washington going after people that go across to Oregon to shop. (Or people that live in one state and cross the river to work in the other) - can't have teh cake and eat it too.

Off topic, perhaps, but still...

The state considers "going after Oregon shoppers" the reciprocal of the agreement that lets Oregon residents avoid paying state sales tax by showing valid ID, at least in SW Washington (Clark county, et al). On the other hand, it simply isn't cost effective to enforce for anything less than a major purchase (vehicles, perhaps a few other things). And since vehicle dealers go through so many hoops already, one more is easy to add.

But more on topic, if you live in Washington and work in Oregon, you ARE liable for non-resident income taxes. Which is made more evil by the fact that Washington doesn't have its own income taxes.

Re:Hrm, I wonder. (2, Informative)

mnagy (854980) | more than 9 years ago | (#12083965)

No state tax in AK, FL, NV, TX, SD, WY.

NH, TN tax dividends and interest only.

RI is a % of Fed liability.

All others are a % on earnings (NY 4% - 7.7%):

http://www.taxadmin.org/fta/rate/ind_inc.html

Re:Hrm, I wonder. (1)

mnagy (854980) | more than 9 years ago | (#12083999)

I forgot WA.

WAH!

Re:Hrm, I wonder. (1)

mikethefreak (735706) | more than 9 years ago | (#12084017)

One of the other bozo things that the Eastern US (generally although other areas are starting to adopt) is city income tax. NYC adds on another 2.907 to 4.45% to NYS making the maximum tax for a city resident 12.15% in addition to federal tax. -Mike

So? (1)

Neil Blender (555885) | more than 9 years ago | (#12083812)

When I was a kid, I lived in Vancouver, Washington (no state income tax.) I worked in Portland, Or (has state income tax, which I had to pay.) Nothing to see here, move along.

Re:So? (1)

Godman (767682) | more than 9 years ago | (#12083838)

Its interesting, because you can get arrested for doing the opposite, Living in portland and working in Washington. The charge? Tax evasion.

Re:So? (1)

MoFoQ (584566) | more than 9 years ago | (#12083908)

you mean it WAS tax evasion.

Not anymore as the courts' decision essentially says that Washington must be the one collecting the taxes....taxes of 0%.
It's not the employee's fault that he works for a company in Washington but lives else where. Besides, in this sort of case, I don't think it would be tax evasion; the employee didn't try to use deceptive illegal methods to build tax-shelters (like making dummy corporations, etc.).

Re:So? (1)

ryancerium (665165) | more than 9 years ago | (#12083953)

I live in Portland and work in Vancouver. I'm required to pay the Oregon income tax, but not sales tax.

Re:So? (0, Flamebait)

Shut the fuck up! (572058) | more than 9 years ago | (#12084006)

I'm required to pay the Oregon income tax, but not sales tax.

Were you that asshole trying to get out of the 3 cent sales tax on a candy bar at the 7/11 on Mill Plain last week?

Re:So? (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12083981)

I infer (perhaps incorrectly) that you physically performed your job in Portland. Generally, if you earn money outside Oregon, you can apportion your income on your state return. When I lived in Vancouver and worked in Seattle and PDX offices for the same employer, I just looked at days spent in each office.

In this instance, the taxpayer is being taxed by NY for work he did in TN. Based on the court's rationale, the taxpayer need not have ever stepped foot in NY to have 100% of his income subject to NY tax.

I wonder at what point income is not derived from NY? When the employer opens an office with more than one person in the other state? Obviously the threshhold is higher than one. Imagine NY trying to tax the income of every broker in the USA who works for Morgan Stanley, which is (or at least was until 9/11) based out of NY.

Screw New York (5, Insightful)

Jesus 2.0 (701858) | more than 9 years ago | (#12083813)

Give me the right to vote, and I'll pay your damn taxes. Till then, up yours. I've got tea, you've got a harbor.

Re:Screw New York (4, Funny)

PopeAlien (164869) | more than 9 years ago | (#12084046)

Ideally in a situation like this you don't have to provide your own tea. Use the tea of the oppressor, but remember if its going anywhere near the Hudson you'll probably want to refrain from drinking the harbor-brewed tea.

Taxed 100% of income? (4, Funny)

dido (9125) | more than 9 years ago | (#12083816)

So does that mean that he doesn't get to keep any of his money? ;)

Seems like a very badly ambiguous way of putting it.

Re:Taxed 100% of income? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12084044)

Ambiguous, true, but it's clear that of the total income he makes, all of it is subject to NY's tax.

Bad idea (5, Interesting)

LordNimon (85072) | more than 9 years ago | (#12083822)

All this will do is convince companies to move their headquarters outside of NY. The long-term affect will be to reduce the amount of taxes that NY collects.

I also think this is going to get appealed to the Federal courts. I live in Texas and work for a company that has an office here, but is headquartered in Massachussettes. I can't imagine paying MA income taxes, but it sounds like this court ruling says that I should (assuming the MA courts rule the same way).

Re:Bad idea (5, Interesting)

Seumas (6865) | more than 9 years ago | (#12083868)

All this will do is convince companies to move their headquarters outside of NY

More likely, it'll convince them to stop offering employees the option to telecommute. I've noticed that telecommuting is fizzling out as control-freak managers feel powerless when they don't have their employees ten feet away from them in a dimly lit cubicle punching code and commuting for three hours a day.

Of course, upper-levels still seem to do a lot of telecommuting - but not so much for everyone else.

USA tax is a mess (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12083916)


why not make it easy and have the same tax rates wether you are in NYC or Alabama, look at all the companies/traitors incorporated in Delaware to avoid paying any tax yet they reap all the benefits of the communities they operate in to the tune of billions (and they have the cheek to call themselves American)

a unified tax would even things out

Re:USA tax is a mess (4, Interesting)

bluGill (862) | more than 9 years ago | (#12084021)

One of the advantages of differing tax rates is I can use that as a basis for moving. This is one of the first arguments for libertarian's states should decide arguments.

Re:USA tax is a mess (0, Flamebait)

DAldredge (2353) | more than 9 years ago | (#12084036)

Corps that incorporate in Delaware still have to pay all city,county,special district, & state property and use taxes.

Re:Bad idea (3, Insightful)

FFON (266696) | more than 9 years ago | (#12083925)

You said: I live in Texas and work for a company that has an office here, but is headquartered in Massachussettes

I say: thats not what this is about.. he is VPNing and virtually working on assets that reside in NY.

i also say: this is bogus, unless the computer he uses to VPN and do the actual 'work' is in NY too, and his fantastic4 like rubber arms stretch across to hit the keys... he is using the resources of his own state..

Re:Bad idea (1)

bsgk (792550) | more than 9 years ago | (#12084012)

No, I think you have this wrong. I, for various reasons, am very good at "non-resident" taxes having paid 4 states over the past 3 years.

Your office in Texas is a legal entity and that is where your payroll originates, therefore its the source, not HQ in Mass.

On the other hand, this guy's payroll was from a legal entity in NY, therefore, he owes NY his state income tax, and maybe local if the office is in NYC.

This really isn't a new precedent; he must have just been challenging the taxes as a way to get out of them altogether.

He will still file taxes as a resident in the state he telecommutes from and that state will give him a credit for the taxes he paid on income derived from legal entities in other states.

Re:Bad idea (1)

elBart0 (444317) | more than 9 years ago | (#12084042)

Speaking of MA (since I live there)

Interestingly enough, if you worked in MA (your office was here) and you lived in NH, you would have to pay MA taxes on part of your income. I live in the state and work here, so I pay full state taxes, but I know the state has taxed out of state workers for quite some time. With the close proximity of the states in NE, it is quite common to live on one state and work in another. A fair number of my co-workers live in NH.

Here's a link to the tax form you are supposed to be filing [state.ma.us] . Here is the FAQ [state.ma.us]

For fairness and consistency.. (4, Funny)

PopeAlien (164869) | more than 9 years ago | (#12083827)

.. lets just have everyone pay tax in every state, just in case.

Interesting (4, Insightful)

mcc (14761) | more than 9 years ago | (#12083828)

So what if, hypothetically, I live in NY and telecommute to Florida? That should mean that 100% of my income is [i]non[/i]taxible by the state of NY, right?

Or is the rule just "if we want your money, we can take it"?

Re:Interesting (2, Interesting)

mikethefreak (735706) | more than 9 years ago | (#12083938)

Theoretically... although this since this case was IMHO improperly decided by the court of the complaining state, the rule is "if we want your money, we can take it." The dissenting judge's statement summed it up perfectly, btw. -Mike

Re:Interesting (1)

Roofus (15591) | more than 9 years ago | (#12083945)

Seeing how Florida has no income tax, that may be ideal!

Come and get me! (2, Interesting)

EnronHaliburton2004 (815366) | more than 9 years ago | (#12083991)

Since this decision only applies to the NY jurstiction, who exactly is going to enforce the law?

The NY police don't have much juristiction in other states...

Re:Interesting (2, Interesting)

scarld (626315) | more than 9 years ago | (#12084003)

I'm not sure about Florida tax law, but chances are the income is taxable by both states.

Just be sure to fill out your NY IT-112-R [state.ny.us] and NY will give you a tax credit against the Florida taxes.

Re:Interesting (1)

v1 (525388) | more than 9 years ago | (#12084027)

This is just some enterprising politician finding a lame excuse (notice I didn't say reason) to stick their hand out wherever money is passed from one person to another. I swear, whenever you get our your wallet, there's a politician with his hand out. They think it'so natural they take it for granted.

I liked the objecting judge's statement, loosely paraphrased "They're asking for more of your money not because they have a good reason to, but simply because they can."

Imagine That... (5, Funny)

instantkarma1 (234104) | more than 9 years ago | (#12083829)

The government rules they can tax yet more of our money.

Fair enough (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12083830)


if you work for a NYC company and you do work for that office you should pay tax, those kids schools,roads, public transport etc etc have gotta be paid for somehow and those rich folks with offshore accounts and do everything they can to avoid paying *any* tax are the real traitors who make the tax on the rest of us seem unfair

judicial activism? (2, Insightful)

superphreak (785821) | more than 9 years ago | (#12083834)

The majority cites no authority at all, and offers no persuasive reason, in support of this new interpretation.

is judicial activism really that surprising anymore?

Re:judicial activism? (1)

OmniBeing (838591) | more than 9 years ago | (#12083959)

This goes beyond judicial activisim. Your average activist can at least come up with a somewhat defensible reason, even if it's loaded with BS>

This equates to "'cause I told you too." That logic should only apply to moms and five year olds.

Re:judicial activism? (1)

IthnkImParanoid (410494) | more than 9 years ago | (#12084033)

This isn't judicial activism, it's judicial stupidity.

I suppose your question still applies, though.

Self empolyed (1)

sonoluminescence (709395) | more than 9 years ago | (#12083839)

how about working freelance and charing the NY company, would that be a reasonable work around and keep everyone happy?

Re:Self empolyed (1)

tompaulco (629533) | more than 9 years ago | (#12083924)

Ever wonder why your comapny has all those "Sales Offices" that are really just a persons house?
Some states (Colorado is noted for this) penalize businesses for employing their residents while not maintaining a business presence their.

Lets wait for the appeal (2, Interesting)

Zeinfeld (263942) | more than 9 years ago | (#12083841)

I don't think this has any significance, it is certain to be appealed all the way to the SCOTUS.

Interesting issue though. It may be fair for NY to tax in some telecommuting cases. But I don't see why CA should be able to tax me on my income because I telecommute from Massachusetts. I have never worked in CA.

25% seems to low a fraction to claim the right to tax. NY is not providing any services to the employee and that is the basis on which taxation should be decided. If they want to recover the costs of providing services to the company they should tax the company.

Services (1)

Antony-Kyre (807195) | more than 9 years ago | (#12083943)

But isn't the state providing services to the business? Don't businesses deserve police protect, fire service, etc.?

Is there some sort of compromise? Imagine what would happen if all businesses were in one state, and all persons lived in another state, and all telecommuted. Both states would need taxes.

Re:Services (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12084055)

The state without any people in wouldn't need police or schools, and could probably get rid of 95% of its fire service, roads, city officials, hospitals etc. It would need a lot less tax revenue than the state with people. It could probably do pretty nicely on business taxes alone.

Re:Lets wait for the appeal (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12083980)

Just FYI, the New York State Court of Appeals is the highest court in that state, so the Supreme Court of the United States is the next option.

Re:Lets wait for the appeal (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12084024)

For heaven's sake, please don't refer to the highest judicial authority in the country as "SCOTUS."

They'd probably throw a legal brief in the fire if it referred to the court in that manner. You could at least afford them some degree of respect. An appropriate short form would be "The Supreme Court" when it is obvious as to which court you are referring.

Double taxation? (5, Interesting)

Seumas (6865) | more than 9 years ago | (#12083849)

Typically you pay a portion of taxes for the time you spent in each state. If you spend 50% of your time in each of two states, they usually have you pay 50% of your taxes in each. But that's if you are PHYSICALLY there.

This sounds as if you could end up paying full income tax in the state your company is in, plus full taxes in your own state - because your local state will consider you a full-time resident (since you do live there full time).

Not only that, but . . . how is New York offering him any representation for the taxes he pays there? He isn't a resident. He doesn't use their services. He doesn't commute. He doesn't have anything to do with anything there - other than it is where his employer is based.

For that matter, shouldn't companies overseas who contract with American companies to provide, say - tech support - have to pay American federal income taxes? I don't see how that would be any different from this scenerio whatsoever...

I'd sure hate to be stuck paying 56% in state income taxes, before even coming to my federal and county income taxes!

Double-taxation? (1)

TheGuano (851573) | more than 9 years ago | (#12083850)

So what if the other state's courts then rule that telecommuters who work in that state for a NY company have to pay income tax for work "they performed in the state?" Then people are getting double-taxed for one unit of work.

This sounds like a big federalism issue, I bet it leads to direct review by the Supreme Court, or will at least work its way up to a circuit split.

Re:Double-taxation? (1)

mikethefreak (735706) | more than 9 years ago | (#12083902)

Although in this particular case there is no double taxation (TN has no personal income tax outside dividends and interest), yes this is a federal issue. NYS is definitely one of the more aggressive money grabbers when it comes to taxes (they were the first state I've ever seen that had Non-resident tax forms...although I've only lived in 4 states and paid tax in 3). Then again if you read half the NYS tax laws, it almost appears that any income from any stock or security that you ever traded anywhere would be taxable if it was done so in an NYS forum. -Mike

Re:Double-taxation? (1)

TheGuano (851573) | more than 9 years ago | (#12083961)

Yes, I can see this opening the way to a nasty set of test cases. Either way, I assume the employer already pays state employment taxes for the telecommuter - that he may never set foot in the state yet still be liable for taxes, let alone also be potentially liable for home-state income tax "earned while in state" is too troubling. It almost makes me want to go Republican.

What does this mean for outsourcing? (4, Insightful)

mark-t (151149) | more than 9 years ago | (#12083854)

Topic says it all, and it's not rhetorical. I'm really curious about this.

As if Government were the Servant of The People... (1)

Stanistani (808333) | more than 9 years ago | (#12083855)

Lately it seems that any government entity sees money, it reaches out to grab a slice, whether merited or not.

There was some old saw... "No taxation without representation..." or something like that.

And no, our gerrymandered Tweedledee/dums don't really count.

Re:As if Government were the Servant of The People (1)

gooberguy (453295) | more than 9 years ago | (#12084030)

Yeah, Washington DC has that quotation on their license plates. They get no representation in congress but they still have taxes. Funny that our nation's capital is a perfect example of something the founding fathers despised.

Fine... (3, Interesting)

bleckywelcky (518520) | more than 9 years ago | (#12083857)

As long as I am only taxed in one state. Last year I was taxed in 2 states because my residence was listed in one and I worked in the other. But now that I want to file a refund to get that money back in one or the other, neither will want to give me anything back.

Re:Fine... (3, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12083990)

uuh? do you even know how to file taxes ? your employer deducts only 1 state at source and you use that as an offsetting credit...are you a complete moron ?
time spent in state is a % of what you pay to that state. not more, not less.

about those taxes... (4, Interesting)

OneOver137 (674481) | more than 9 years ago | (#12083859)

My wife telecommutes from OH to CA. We lived in CO for half the year, and she pays state tax in all three. Yeah, her company isn't too happy about it either. States are like sharks these days with your paycheck...but that is for another topic!

Offshoring? (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12083860)

So does this now open the doors to trying to collect employment taxes on all those offshore workers?

That would have an interesting effect.

Re:Offshoring? (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12083901)

The New York State Court of Whoring Bastards will set that great precedent. Soon Apu the Pakistani Dominican answering phones in the Dutch Antilles for a Bermuda-based company will have to pay the New York State Work Prostitution Tax of 15% on his $0.22 a day income. Poor Apu the Pakastani Dominican, how shall he pay for his wife's sex change operation at this rate? Why have the gods so cursed Apu the Pakastani Dominican. Curse you, New York State Court of Whoring Bastards!

How about outsourced work? (4, Insightful)

linuxhansl (764171) | more than 9 years ago | (#12083865)

Remote callcenters in India? Outsources software engineering that is funded by sources from the US?

Do these have to pay the same taxes aswell?

Re:How about outsourced work? (0)

t_allardyce (48447) | more than 9 years ago | (#12083930)

I think that would be a pretty good idea ;) either that or they should put in some 'equal rights' law that guarantees outsourced workers the same pay that a normal worker would get - its only fair that those Indian tech-support workers get the _same_ pay that an American tech-support worker would!

Oh whats that Cisco? you don't think so? whats wrong, you're not racist are you? huh?

What about Consultants (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12083867)

I work for a company were I technically have a home office but travel all across the NoVA, DC and Maryland area consulting for the federal government so who do I pay?

NY Taxes (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12083876)

I wonder if this would also apply to employees offshore as well.

Re:NY Taxes (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12083994)

Apu the Pakastani Dominican working in the Dutch Antilles for a Barbados-based company fears that this will be so. He is very fearful, and begs that Allah and Krishna intervene to cause the whoring New York State judges who have committed this attrocity to have their hair catch fire and their tongues to form no other words than "There is no gods but Allah, Krishna and Bob the Builder, and they are right pissed off at New York State."

As well, Apu begs that the New York Mets be turned into a pack of wild homosexual donkeys.

The irony for a NYC resident... (1)

otis wildflower (4889) | more than 9 years ago | (#12083877)

... is that a few years ago NYC's own commuter tax was ruled unconstitutional.

Granted, this means NYC workers who live out of state are merely double fucked instead of triple fucked.

And NYC people get the fist thanks to upstaters getting more for their tax dollar than NYCers.

Viva the Free State of Gotham!

Oregon lets it go (1)

ryancerium (665165) | more than 9 years ago | (#12083880)

Oregon also has an income tax -- most states do actually. Oregon's tax instructions specifically state that for non-residents, they are taxed only on the income they earn while in Oregon. Since he's telecommuting, he would not have to pay Oregon income tax unless he flew to Oregon and put in some time.

I have a feeling this may eventually become a state's rights issue since Oregon and New York have conflicting laws. I wonder if he still has to pay his Tennessee income tax, assuming there is such a thing.

STATE COURT made this decision. (1)

whoever57 (658626) | more than 9 years ago | (#12083888)

What a shocker: NY state court decides that non-resident should pay NY tax.

If this stands, companies will simply employ tele-commuters from TX or some other state with no state income tax.

Which Is Why... (1)

DoctorPepper (92269) | more than 9 years ago | (#12083890)

I'd take a job schlepping burgers at McDonalds before I'd ever stoop to working anywhere in New York.

Taxed twice? (1)

OmniBeing (838591) | more than 9 years ago | (#12083910)

What happened to no taxation without representation? Can the worker now vote in NY? Does he loose his voting rights where he owns his house (assumed) and pays property taxes? If I hire a US citizen to telecommute to Canada, does he pay US income tax, Canadian income tax or both?

Telecommute from India? :) (1)

saikou (211301) | more than 9 years ago | (#12083918)

Wouldn't this decision mean it's better NOT to work in NY remotely? Leave it to guys in India. I am sure NY will be happy with 10x less money they can collect on smaller salaries (I also would love to see them try to collect the tax :) Though they probably demand employers to deduct the tax and pay it directly, rather than wait for individual to pay up).

I call BS (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12083928)

"New York provides the job, New York provides the professional opportunity, and New York should be able to tax that income, even if the employee for his own convenience was working outside of New York state," said Marc Violette, spokesman for state Assistant Solicitor General Julie Mereson, who won the case.

As a full-time telecommuter, I can tell you that many companies choose to hire people as telecommuters to avoid paying the in-city salaries. I make much less than my urban counterparts.
If the unlucky bastard were to make as much as his NY counterparts, it wouldn't be so bad.

NY politicians need to ask why that particular region of the country is taxed to the hilt, yet they still need additional sources of income.

They need to ask why retirees flee the wretched place en masse, heading for FL with pensions in hand.

Just like the pro sports teams.... (1)

rmallico (831443) | more than 9 years ago | (#12083939)

back in my day (long long ago) i managed to eek out nearly a decade playing professional baseball... (yeah, and most was spent in the minors) but the fact was that when a major league baseball player played a series in say New York or Seattle the city they played in were allowed to TAX you based on the number of days you spent in their town... My problem was that I spent more time in the bush leagues than the major leagues and you had to convince the cities sending you their 'bill' as to your real time spent there... was a total waste of EVERYONES time...

doesnt this fall under... (4, Insightful)

zxnos (813588) | more than 9 years ago | (#12083944)

...taxation without representation?

this from the state that raised cigarette taxes then went after people getting them out of state. if the music industry needs to look at its business model, governments need to look at their taxation model - both a looking for all the cash they can get.

Extremely Bad Idea... (1)

HopeOS (74340) | more than 9 years ago | (#12083955)

My company is based in Chicago. I live in Arizona. If I get a second job in New York, will I soon have %300 of my base income taxed? This is ridiculous. I can see paying tax on wages earned while in the state. I can see paying taxes on wages earned from a specific company in a state. But %100 of my income as a basis for taxation? I don't think so.

-Hope

Re:Extremely Bad Idea... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12083982)

Well that was 100% of income derived from NY sources, not ALL sources so...

But still. Typically 100% of ALL income is taxed in the state you are a resident of (if that state has income tax). So I guess potentially you could get as high as 200% of your income taxed.

50 comments allready.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12083960)

and no Cure / Robert Smith jokes yet? shocking.. maybe this isn't turning into fark after all.

I, for one, welcome our NY tax refugees! (5, Funny)

Nova Express (100383) | more than 9 years ago | (#12083964)

To Texas, that is. No state income tax. No insane "city" income tax like they have in the Big Apple. 2700 square foot houses can be had for $175,000 or less.

So, if you're a New York company that hires programmers, consider relocating (either in toto or a subsidiary) to Texas, where your dollar goes further, and you get to keep more of it.

We have BBQ, TexMex, and sane gun laws (i.e., the law-abiding can own one). What we lack: 3 months of snow, subways, and george Steinbrenner.

Up to you.

A shitty school (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12084053)

No REALLY REALLY Shitty schools..

And so hot that you can't go out of summer

My cousin lives there, and she's thinking of leaving..Moving back to NY..

He's no ordinary civil servant... (1)

soulsteal (104635) | more than 9 years ago | (#12083967)

Garnishing wages fater than a speeding rate of inflation!
Leaping state lines in a single bound!

He's TAXMAN!

Certifiably insane decision (1)

ebrandsberg (75344) | more than 9 years ago | (#12083976)

Everybody seems to be pointing out the issue of two states potentially taxing, however, it's worse than that. Say I live in the US and telecommute with a company in the UK. Do I have to pay country taxes for both? How about I work in one state, and telecommute to two different locations for a company in two different states. Do all three states get to tax me? Because each state will fail to recognize the other's taxes for the same amount (it's their income to tax after all), you could be left in a situation where you owe more money in taxes then you even made. The ONLY reasonable interpretation is that you made the money in the physical location you were actually at, and that's it.

New York Taxes suck. (3, Interesting)

John Sokol (109591) | more than 9 years ago | (#12083978)

I moved out there from the Bay area 10 years ago.
I was getting 150K yr, but found 68% of my income went to taxes!

The City tax was higher then my federal!
My take home after everything was $3500 a month. I couldn't make ends meet and all in all lost over $30K in the move there and move back + the operating at a loss the whole time I was there.

With this new tax rull people who commute from New Jersey would end up paying taxes to two states!

I am so glad to be in California...

Authority? (3, Interesting)

autarkeia (152712) | more than 9 years ago | (#12083993)

I think the dissenting judge's opinion in the matter is interesting:

In a strong dissent, Judge Robert Smith argued that the basis of the majority's decision that all income is taxable is "that the commissioner says it is ... The majority cites no authority at all, and offers no persuasive reason, in support of this new interpretation."

I live in California and just took a contract position with a company in New York. This ruling does not say anything about contractors vs. employees, but knowing New York's tax system, I would guess they want it to apply to me, too. I of course do not intend on paying NYS a single cent, since as far as I can tell they have no authority over me whatsoever, but IANAL.

Any tax lawyers care to comment on this?

I've dealt with these issues before (1)

Fox_1 (128616) | more than 9 years ago | (#12084000)

In setting up remote sales, and development people for a company in different locations, we often encountered many different laws (including our own gov'ts laws) about how the employees were paid in those regions. In most cases the solution was to set up a branch office - rent the space from the employee in his house and move on.

Obvious solution (1)

erroneus (253617) | more than 9 years ago | (#12084001)

If his employer would cooperate, he should form a quick and dirty DBA, get paid as a business rather than an individual and he can do his OWN taxes... (and not have social secrity taken out to boot!) Of course that would also remove him from other benefits such as 401K, healthcare, etc...

But shoot, doing a little homework here and there, a smart person could create those benefits for himself and probably do better.

Job Costing - 101 (1)

krray (605395) | more than 9 years ago | (#12084002)

My rule of thumb -- Jobs are taxed based on where they are located. Employees (_employer_) may need to pay an additional "tax", for the duration of the job, to the LOCAL [Union], if applicable. In most cases [NOT] as contracting with the Local in the appropriate field and hiring enough % of employees from the Hall for that job covers the "tax". Employees are taxed [income] based on where they LIVE. Add local County and Municipality based taxes as appropriate (and yes, I see THAT all the time).

All I see happening is NY having litigation with a LOT of various local governments -- probably a-joining states. I done jobs in of and [mostly] out of NY. Not a NY based company and have NY based employees -- who also rarely happen to actually work IN the state of NY. Heck, they're home maybe 2 months of the year total (now go add up YOUR weekends, holidays, random days off). Does this mean they DON'T have to pay the NY tax, but I can tax them at a lower tax rate of the home office? Or [pick a job site in whichever state with the most spent time]?

They're trying to open a NASTY can of worms that'll bit them back. If my company was a NY based on the border ... I certainly would think of moving it down the road...

7 States... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12084026)

Don't tax income... Move there..

Growing up, we lived in CT, and my father at one point worked in NYC... Had to pay income tax in both CT and NY... God bless the lefties...

Yet another reason not to live/work in NY... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12084031)

NY already has one of the highest tax burdens in the USA. Now this...

Key Phrase... (2, Interesting)

Donoho (788900) | more than 9 years ago | (#12084037)

"New York has the right to tax 100 percent of a nonresident employee's income derived from New York sources,"

Each employer distributes their own W2. This ruling states that 100% of the income earned from a New York based employer is subject to tax. A person who telecommuntes to New York 50% of their time and San Francisco the other 50% of their time can only be taxed by New York on the income generated from the New York Employer.

It's all about jurisdiction (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12084048)

Well duh. Of course they should pay NY income tax! It's all a matter of jurisdiction. I live in massachusetts, so I'm subject to all the laws in massachusetts and NOT Iowa, Utah, Canada, China, etc. However, If the company that is paying me is doing so in NY, then income that is derived from said area would be subject to whatever laws govern that source of income regardless of where one actually lives geographically.

It's all a matter of jurisdiction.

Now is where the flaming begins. It is because of jurisdiction that most people are not truly liable for federal income tax. The federal income tax jurisdiction is extremely limited, being incurred only on people living in the TERRITORIES of the US or doing business with said territories while actually living in the 50 states.

But, this will get modded down to oblivion by people who haven't actually looked for the law at all... yet claim to be experts (this includes CPAs, lawyers, and judges), for it's assumed to be true.

Here's one of the many resources that lays it all out on the line, with links to all the relevant United States codes, statutes, and regulations.

http://www.supremelaw.org/sls/31answers.htm

I've done my public service announcement... now it's time for a whole bunch of FUD responses... but it's all jurisdiction folks. If you don't understand that, you might as well just pay Canada's income tax as well.
Load More Comments
Slashdot Login

Need an Account?

Forgot your password?