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WBEL4 Preview Ready For Testing

timothy posted more than 9 years ago | from the amazing-margins-up-to-65-percent dept.

Red Hat Software 265

linuxbeta writes "A preview of WBEL4 (White Box Enterprise Linux) is currently available via BitTorrent. White Box nicely fills the niche between Fedora and RHEL. WBEL Sreenshots. WBEL FAQ. With this latest White Box Enterprise Linux release, is it time to walk away from RHEL?" Not if you want support from Red Hat, it's not.

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What about CentOS? (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12131050)

CentOS screenshots shots.osdir.com [osdir.com]

Re:What about CentOS? (3, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12131064)

CentOS URL [caosity.org]

Re:What about CentOS? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12131262)

Are you telling me CentOS has a new release too?

White Box? Red Hat? (4, Funny)

Bananatree3 (872975) | more than 9 years ago | (#12131058)

Hmmm... how about Purple Moose?

Re:White Box? Red Hat? (1)

roseblood (631824) | more than 9 years ago | (#12131069)

You can find the Purple Moose here. [kenaiwriter.net]

Re:White Box? Red Hat? (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12131135)

together = Pink Bat?

Re:White Box? Red Hat? (0, Offtopic)

larry bagina (561269) | more than 9 years ago | (#12131186)

fuck the purple moose, i want to see some pink camel toe!

CentOS (4, Informative)

barwin (588144) | more than 9 years ago | (#12131062)

CentOS [centos.org] also fills this niche, and I think has a stronger community base behind it. It's been a while since I've done a full comparison though.

Re:CentOS (5, Interesting)

LnxAddct (679316) | more than 9 years ago | (#12131257)

RHEL have recommended CentOS in the mailing list if you need an enterpise system and you or your company can't afford $345 a year. I guess that says alot about it. Some red hat engineers have even helped the CentOS project out.
Regards,
Steve

Re:CentOS (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12131400)

This is not true.

Red Hat does certainly not endorse FOSS-projects incorporating their licensed SCO-codebase into GPL-code.

Will it be free?` (1)

SteelV (839704) | more than 9 years ago | (#12131066)

Sorry for not reading all about it. I checked out the screenshots and read the basics. My question is, will this eventually be free, and what's the ETC (estimated time of completion) on this project?

Thanks.

Re:Will it be free?` (2, Informative)

CompotatoJ (848808) | more than 9 years ago | (#12131073)

If it is availible from BitTorrent (legally), then it is free.

Re:Will it be free?` (4, Informative)

gtoomey (528943) | more than 9 years ago | (#12131138)

Its been available and free for years. Its Red Hat Enterprise Linux minus the Red Hat name released under thet GPL. This is a new release.

Differences between Whitebox, CentOS, Tao? (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12131070)

I'm currently using CentOS 4.0, which works great.

What distinguishes Whitebox and Tao from CentOS? As far as I've been able to tell, they're all just blatant imitators of RHEL, but CentOS appears to have the largest community (and therefore, the greatest prospect of actually being around in five years).

So: why bother with Whitebox or Tao?

That's it! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12131074)

Teh end of the world is neigh!!1! First the pope died, now this!!!!1!111 I am pacikng my stuff!!11!!!

ST Font? (1)

suso (153703) | more than 9 years ago | (#12131077)

Did anyone else think of Star Trek II: The Wraith of Khan when they saw the font on the login screen that reads "White Box Enterprise Linux".

Re:ST Font? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12131084)

It's "Wrath," not "Wraith."

Re:ST Font? (4, Funny)

ABeowulfCluster (854634) | more than 9 years ago | (#12131324)

Khaaaaaaaaaaaaaannnnoppix!

Re:ST Font? (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12131342)

Well I suppose all the other faggots did.

It is important to note... (5, Informative)

LnxAddct (679316) | more than 9 years ago | (#12131079)

It is important to note that Red Hat eningeers have actually helped put White Box out. People here are going to yell and complain about how Red Hat made White Box remove any mention of Red Hat and they are probably also going to suggest that you dont need RHEL anymore. I'm just clarifying that Red Hat isn't out to crush White Box, but corporate customers really were confused. If you want or need support (as most companies and enterprises need) go with RHEL, if you don't need support then go with White Box, its pretty decent and some of the same engineers involved with RHEL have helped with White Box. Personally, Red Hat does a hell of alot for the community in everything from the kernel to the gui so $345 a year isn't bad if your company can afford it and you'll be supporting the community. The only place Red Hat has ever screwed up was due to a marketing mistake, so let's be nice...if that's the worst they ever do then we'll be pretty well off imho.
Regards,
Steve

Re:It is important to note... (2, Informative)

LnxAddct (679316) | more than 9 years ago | (#12131109)

Ugh... ignore the above post, it is accurate if you replace White Box with CentOS. It may still be accurate for White Box, but I only know for CentOS. It was my understanding that one project took over for the other (so White Box == CentOS or so I thought), but apparently they are still both up and running, go figure.
Regards,
Steve

Mod parent up (2, Insightful)

Eric(b0mb)Dennis (629047) | more than 9 years ago | (#12131183)

Why is it people look down on a project as soon as they ask for money?

Re:Mod parent up (1)

QuantumG (50515) | more than 9 years ago | (#12131220)

Cause they ask for it the wrong way. Red Hat should have made it a very attractive option to get support for their enterprise GNU/Linux offering, not a requirement.

Re:Mod parent up (5, Insightful)

LnxAddct (679316) | more than 9 years ago | (#12131238)

I think it is just the general slashdot mentality. Slashdot group think leads to alot of wierd assumptions. One being that money==bad, but money made linux mainstream and continues to foster more of it's development then any other means. Without distributions making money off of linux, it's development would slow down quite a bit. People don't realize all that companies like Red Hat do for the community, maybe if they grepd a few major projects they'd see. Anyway... I would never suggest that what slashdot's users think is actually how reality works and this applies to many things. One major area being with GUIs. Most notably, alot of slashdotters disagreed with Gnome's switch to the spatial model. The thing is, companies like Red Hat (probably Novell too) do HIG studies with actual users and implement what they find is needed or wanted. Developers don't realize that only about 5% of their needs overlap with regular users in GUIs. Everyone screams and shouts that they want linux to be mainstream and to have all this greatness, but then they scream and shout when money is involved and changes are made that benefit 95% of people rather then their 5% needs. Its just a wierd kind of paradox here, I've learned to live with it over the years.
Regards,
Steve

Re:Mod parent up (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12131277)

Well said.

Re:Mod parent up (1)

Coryoth (254751) | more than 9 years ago | (#12131431)

One major area being with GUIs. Most notably, alot of slashdotters disagreed with Gnome's switch to the spatial model.

I think you'll find that, in terms of the groupthink (as hard to properly define as it is), what "slashdotters" don't like is actually having to learn to do things a different way. It wasn't so much that the spatial model didn't suit their needs, it was more the fact that it required them to learn a new way to structure their files, and interact with their system. To be fair, having that thrust upon you (as it was in the first release) is understandably unpleasant. Still, if you look at any other area (programming being a popular one, but UIs is another) where something asks slashdotters to learn a new way of doing things, they'll never accept it, no matter how much better it might be. They will whine and find excuses as to why their current turd is worth keeping on polishing.

Of course if they ask anyone else to step back, look at a different way of doing things and take the time to properly learn or invest in it... well, they expect immediate uptake. Consider all the complaints about the RIAA clinging to an old outdated business model.

The disclaimer I better add (lest I get flamed) is that this is of course "Slashdot Groupthink" which is not every slashdotter, nor even the majority of slashdotters, but rather a case of "there's always at least one (and usually quite a few)" for each given issue.

Jedidiah

Other flavors... CentOS & TaoLinux (4, Informative)

Erik_ (183203) | more than 9 years ago | (#12131086)

There are also other flavors available...
CentOS at http://www.centos.org/ [centos.org] and probably TaoLinux at http://www.taolinux.org/ [taolinux.org] will also follow suit with a new release.

One interesting software release that takes advantage of North-American Linux Enterprise distribution, is Asterisk@home, which comes with a recent CentOS 3.4 build. Spin your own VoIP infrastrucutre from http://asteriskathome.sourceforge.net/ [sourceforge.net]

Re:Other flavors... CentOS & TaoLinux (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12131129)

CentOS actually led WhiteboxLinux by at least a month, getting the RHEL 4.0 port out the door. That deserved a good Slashdot posting, not WhiteboxLinux. Both are good redistributions, but CentOS is a bit better maintained. RedHat really did make it easy for them, publishing all the SRPM's and having a really, really workable build structure for doing the whole OS in one clean build, unlike Debian stable (which is always out of date), Debian untested (which is wildly unstable and irreproducible), SuSE (which flat out breaks their SRPM's to make them uncompilable outside of SuSE with weirdness like the "kernel-dummy" or "ghostscript-mini" package requirements), gentoo (which is about as reproducible a build as a dreidel is stable, it only works if you keep spinning and respinning it), or others I've worked with.

RedHat deserves a lot of credit for making this possible: allowing it lets people get the free OS to do development and testing, while selling their supported OS to the business and server market.

Re:Other flavors... CentOS & TaoLinux (1)

naros (518116) | more than 9 years ago | (#12131230)

Centos really is much better kept then Whitebox. Centos also has a much larger following, this is obvious from the fact that Centos 4 came out much faster then Whitebox.

Re:Other flavors... CentOS & TaoLinux (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12131315)

There is also Pie Box (http://www.piebox.org [piebox.org] ).

Both are OK (0, Flamebait)

nitinshantharam (873097) | more than 9 years ago | (#12131092)

both seem OK, nothing great. Running Gnome 2.8 and some other old stuff (yea i consider 2.8 kinda old now). Now whats nice is ubuntu:) Rock stable debian distrobution with the newest packages and out-of-the-box working state.
WikiLessons JOIN NOW! [wikilessons.org]

Re:Both are OK (1)

hpxchan (827740) | more than 9 years ago | (#12131187)

White Box Enterprise Linux is, appropriately, intended for use by enterprises, not home users. Seeing as enterprises generally favor stability and security over fancy features, it shouldn't come as a surprise that an enterprise-oriented distribution's package set consists of older, more thoroughly-tested software. The biggest obstacle in WBEL seems to be (as mentioned above) the lack of support. It has more in common with RHEL than not; the biggest difference is the professional support offered by Red Hat (and not White Box). The fact that CentOS apparently dominates the niche (as proven by all of the advertisement in the comments here), therefore taking potential community members from WBEL, can't help much, either.

Re:Both are OK (2, Interesting)

LnxAddct (679316) | more than 9 years ago | (#12131292)

Enterprise systems need to meet a certain criteria. Not many distributions meet this criteria except for Red Hat and Novell. This is based off of the common criteria I've seen set forth by most Fortune 500 companies. In the end it is really up to the admin but Ubuntu is not enterprise ready, nor are a slew of others. Debian used to be and still might meet the criteria, but in all honesty their stable version is getting too far behind and with the recent political issues in the project, its future is too uncertain for a business. I tested debian testing and unstable about 3 months ago because alot claim that those are good enough and are stable, I set up a cron job to install all updates daily (I have a similar set up on red hat) and within a month and one week both debian installations broke more then once (even if it was minor a few times, it wasn't acceptable). Don't get me wrong, other distros are nice for small businesses and home use, but certainly not enterprise.
Regards,
Steve

Re:Both are OK (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12131338)

Well, we've all seen Windows in the Enterprise, so the criteria cannot be that strict. Hit me with a cluebat: what are they?

I call a bluff (1)

iamacat (583406) | more than 9 years ago | (#12131524)

Sure, an enterprise system needs stable versions of kernel, libc, apache, J2EE and PHP. But an antique GNOME version? I don't think so! Either an administrator will use command line/web/automated tools and UI doesn't come into play or, if he actually uses an interactive login, an occasional crash and restart won't impact important services or otherwise matter more than it does for an ordinary user.

Given that patches for stable kernel, libc and so on are freely available under GPL and Redhat support doesn't actually login to your box and use gdb to diagnose your problem, RHEL only sells because big corporations have tons of money and can survive even wasting $$$ when they could have just hired a student to install Gentoo.

Linux (1)

hardcorebuttsecks (871562) | more than 9 years ago | (#12131099)

__________________..._______________ ___________.'"___________"'.________ __________/____.--._.--.____\_______ _________/____/_________\____\______ ________/_____| / \ / \ |_____\_____ _______;____.-' \o/ \o/ '-.____;____ _______|___|_()_.-"""-._()_|___|____ _______;___|____\_____/____|___;____ _______\___;_____\___/____;__/______ ________\__\______\_/_______/__/____ ________.->""--.___V___.--""-._____ _______/_______________________\____ ______/__________LINUX__________\___ _____/___________________________\__ ____/______/_____COCKS_____\______\_ ___;______|_________________|______: ___|______|_________________|______| ___|_______\_____.-v-._____/_______| ____\_______'.__/_____\__.'_______/_ _____;._______`--|___|--'_______.;__ _____|_`-.________)_(________.-'_|__ _____|___|_```___|___|___```_|___|__ _____;___\_______|___|_______/___;__ ______\___\____(___Y___)____/___/___ _______\___'.___"-----"___.'___/____ ________\____`-._______.-'____/_____ _________'._______```_______.'______ __________/`-.___________.-'\_______ _________/__,__``;---;``__,__\______ ________|__/__|__|___|__|__\__|_____ ________'-'|__/\_/___\_/\__|'-'_____ Important Stuff: Please try to keep posts on topic. Try to reply to other people's comments instead of starting new threads. Read other people's messages before posting your own to avoid simply duplicating what has already been said. Use a clear subject that describes what your message is about. Offtopic, Inflammatory, Inappropriate, Illegal, or Offensive comments might be moderated. (You can read everything, even moderated posts, by adjusting your threshold on the User Preferences Page) If you want replies to your comments sent to you, consider logging in or creating an account. Problems regarding accounts or comment posting should be sent to CowboyNeal.mportant Stuff: Please try to keep posts on topic. Try to reply to other people's comments instead of starting new threads. Read other people's messages before posting your own to avoid simply duplicating what has already been said. Use a clear subject that describes what your message is about. Offtopic, Inflammatory, Inappropriate, Illegal, or Offensive comments might be moderated. (You can read everything, even moderated posts, by adjusting your threshold on the User Preferences Page) If you want replies to your comments sent to you, consider logging in or creating an account. Problems regarding accounts or comment posting should be sent to CowboyNeal.mportant Stuff: Please try to keep posts on topic. Try to reply to other people's comments instead of starting new threads. Read other people's messages before posting your own to avoid simply duplicating what has already been said. Use a clear subject that describes what your message is about. Offtopic, Inflammatory, Inappropriate, Illegal, or Offensive comments might be moderated. (You can read everything, even moderated posts, by adjusting your threshold on the User Preferences Page) If you want replies to your comments sent to you, consider logging in or creating an account. Problems regarding accounts or comment posting should be sent to CowboyNeal.

Re:Linux (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12131389)

It would appear that your crude attempt at ascii art is incorrectly formatted. You fail it harshly, in a story about some stupid linux thing nobody cares about-that means linux has kicked your ass.

Here's how it's done. Post using <tt> block (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12131526)

__________________..._______________
___________.'"___________"'.________
__________/____.--._.--.____\_______
_________/____/_________\____\______
________/_____| / \ / \ |_____\_____
_______;____.-' \o/ \o/ '-.____;____
_______|___|_()_.-"""-._()_|___|____
_______;___|____\_____/____|___;____
_______\___;_____\___/____;__/______
________\__\______\_/_______/__/____
________.->""--.___V___.--""-.______
_______/_______________________\____
______/__________LINUX__________\___
_____/___________________________\__
____/______/_____COCKS_____\______\_
___;______|_________________|______:
___|______|_________________|______|
___|_______\_____.-v-._____/_______|
____\_______'.__/_____\__.'_______/_
_____;._______`--|___|--'_______.;__
_____|_`-.________)_(________.-'_|__
_____|___|_```___|___|___```_|___|__
_____;___\_______|___|_______/___;__
______\___\____(___Y___)____/___/___
_______\___'.___"-----"___.'___/____
________\____`-._______.-'____/_____
_________'._______```_______.'______
__________/`-.___________.-'\_______
_________/__,__``;---;``__,__\______
________|__/__|__|___|__|__\__|_____
________'-'|__/\_/___\_/\__|'-'_____
Important Stuff: Please try to keep posts on topic. Try to reply to other people's comments instead of starting new threads. Read other people's messages before posting your own to avoid simply duplicating what has already been said. Use a clear subject that describes what your message is about. Offtopic, Inflammatory, Inappropriate, Illegal, or Offensive comments might be moderated. (You can read everything, even moderated posts, by adjusting your threshold on the User Preferences Page) If you want replies to your comments sent to you, consider logging in or creating an account. Problems regarding accounts or comment posting should be sent to CowboyNeal.mportant Stuff: Please try to keep posts on topic. Try to reply to other people's comments instead of starting new threads. Read other people's messages before posting your own to avoid simply duplicating what has already been said. Use a clear subject that describes what your message is about. Offtopic, Inflammatory, Inappropriate, Illegal, or Offensive comments might be moderated. (You can read everything, even moderated posts, by adjusting your threshold on the User Preferences Page) If you want replies to your comments sent to you, consider logging in or creating an account. Problems regarding accounts or comment posting should be sent to CowboyNeal.mportant Stuff: Please try to keep posts on topic. Try to reply to other people's comments instead of starting new threads. Read other people's messages before posting your own to avoid simply duplicating what has already been said. Use a clear subject that describes what your message is about. Offtopic, Inflammatory, Inappropriate, Illegal, or Offensive comments might be moderated. (You can read everything, even moderated posts, by adjusting your threshold on the User Preferences Page) If you want replies to your comments sent to you, consider logging in or creating an account. Problems regarding accounts or comment posting should be sent to CowboyNeal.

RH Certification (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12131101)

Does WBEL make a good substitute for RHEL when studying for the RHCE?

It would be nice to find a cheap solution to use for studying purposes.

Re:RH Certification (1)

hdparm (575302) | more than 9 years ago | (#12131299)

It must, it's RH without branding stuff. Personally, I don't have any trouble using FC3 for this purpose, either - it's what RHEL4 is made from.

What about kernel compatibility? (4, Interesting)

mnmn (145599) | more than 9 years ago | (#12131103)

Binary driver vendors only distribute binary drivers for certain kernel versions of certain distros, mostly redhat suse and mandrake. The nVidia drivers are an example, but they can also recompile for vanilla kernels, but what about say a binary driver compiled for the stock 2.4 kernel that comes with redhat 9 shrike? Will it work seamlessly with WBEL?

I'd imagine all kernels were recompiled, at least to remove the word 'redhat'. I know I could download RHES kernels from their installation floppies and use those... but is that required to run precompiled kernel modules?

Re:What about kernel compatibility? (1)

Antique Geekmeister (740220) | more than 9 years ago | (#12131139)

No, it's not. As long as the kernel "uname" remains the same, the source isn't too wildly, and the .config is consistent, the actual name of the RPM package or the labeling information allows inter-operability.

Trust me, I tried that stunt with a number of kernels years ago and it worked just fine.

Re:What about kernel compatibility? (4, Informative)

barwin (588144) | more than 9 years ago | (#12131165)

Had that problem with one of the early CentOS kernels because they had renamed it. Now they keep the name exactly the same so any 3rd party drivers that rely on kernel versions are 100% compatible with CentOS. I can only assume WBEL is doing the same (or will when complaints come flooding in).

In practice, it works. (1)

cduffy (652) | more than 9 years ago | (#12131388)

Kernel modules compiled for RHEL3 work on WBEL3 -- I've used WBEL at the office for test servers we didn't want to buy licenses for. (Presently, it's a moot point -- we're switching to SLES).

"To Retain Enough Compatibility" - Not good enough (4, Insightful)

hillct (230132) | more than 9 years ago | (#12131117)

Their mission statement says it all. Centos retains complete compatibility. 'Enough Compabibility' means there will be a divergence between WhiteBox and RHEL while they hope "to support RHEL Erata releases" which is a complete contrediction. It's not good enough to be able to install RHEL erata fixes. It's nessecery to ensure that no other security or reliability problems are introduced by any divergence from the platform on which you depend for your security patches.

While I believe variety in Linux distributions in itself is a positive contribution to the platform's overall growth and appeal, The distributions should be distinct enough to offer a meaningful value-add as compared to others already established in the market (free - as in beer - as the market is).

Where Centos provides an unincumbered version of a supported (and thereby presumed superior) distribution, what is WhiteBox providing over either of these existing and established offerings?

--CTH

Red Hat's response? (3, Insightful)

cimmer (809369) | more than 9 years ago | (#12131126)

I think this is pretty interesting. I have to admit my ignorance of the WBEL intiative before tonight, but I am now looking at all the Redhat Enterprise licenses I was about to go buy and am wondering if this isn't a better alternative.

Most of the Enterprise licenses I've purchased have been acquired to avoid the upgrade dance. I know linux well enough to troubleshoot just about anything that comes up outside of obscure kernel and driver issues. In my two years using Redhat Enterprise, I've had to use their tech support once to resolve a hardware issue. I wonder how many other corporate IT depts are in a similiar situation and how this will ultimately affect Redhat revenue?

Re:Red Hat's response? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12131152)

When I left a company last year, losing their internal RedHat support person was one of the hidden costs of my departure, since they suddenly had to buy 300 RHEL licenses to get the same level of support, and it's going to cost them another 400 licenses this year. Their own engineers warned the new manager of the problem, and tried to explain that it was cheaper to hire another person to do the things I couldn't do than to replace me and have to pay for that, but he didn't listen.

Then they had to factor in the Windows and Adobe licenses when they lost their OpenOffice and ghostscript support, and they've had to cut their travel expenses. Too bad for them, really.

Re:Red Hat's response? (1)

rsax (603351) | more than 9 years ago | (#12131245)

I would really consider CentOS [centos.org] if you prefer using operating systems that are maintained by a team of developers. WBEL seems to be maintained by mainly one individual who works for a US library and he has made it clear that he does not want to relinquish control of the project to others. At least with CentOS you know if one team member decides that they don't have enough time for the project then someone else can pick up the slack.

Re:Red Hat's response? (1)

LnxAddct (679316) | more than 9 years ago | (#12131325)

CentOS has been recommened on the RHEL mailing list by RHEL engineers if you can't afford RHEL. Some RHEL engineers are even involved with CentOS.
Regards,
Steve

Hometown Distribution (1)

Mipsalawishus (674206) | more than 9 years ago | (#12131134)

Even though I am a die hard Slacker, I still think this is too cool. As a kid, I visited the library that Whitebox was spawned from, and coming from a somewhat small city makes it pretty nifty. Great work.

ma8e (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12131146)

Re:ma8e (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12131153)

hehe, funny how the trolls are linking to a dead domain... honestly the quality of trolling is going way down..

Support (4, Interesting)

Cruithne (658153) | more than 9 years ago | (#12131147)

Not if you want support from Red Hat, it's not.

That to me sums it up. The *only* reason i can think of to go with Red Hat is if you need the support. Other than that.. what are the benefits?

Re:Support (1)

madscientist003 (857924) | more than 9 years ago | (#12131249)

I don't think there are any. Red Hat has made pretty clear their intention of generating revenue from support and service value adds; if you (or your company) are comfortable with trouble shooting the distribution as is, you can get by with one of the "generic" releases. Depending on in what environment you intend to run the distribution, Red Hat's offering may or may not be worth your time and money.

img-timeline (5, Informative)

buddha42 (539539) | more than 9 years ago | (#12131161)

just fyi to anyone actually interested in a free RHEL rebuild, look into CentOS [centos.org] . When RHEL rebuilding first became a need, there were half a dozen different rebuild projects, of which Whitebox was the first/most-popular. However since then tao is all but dead, scientific is looking to merge with centos, and wbel went weeks and sometimes months between when redhat would release a security update and when he would get around to repackaging it. CentOS has emerged as "the" RHEL rebuild because it doesnt try to do its own thing at all, just rebuild RHEL, and because there is usually a less than 24 hour lag behind official RHEL packages.

In fact, this very article announced whitebox finnaly got RHEL4 rebuilt, yet the CentOS team had it finished over a month ago, and I'll be putting my first live instance of it in production on monday.

Missing Something here? (0, Flamebait)

westyvw (653833) | more than 9 years ago | (#12131162)

Maybe I havent paid enough attention, but is there something worth seeing in the screenshots? I mean if I was to look at say SUSE enterprise I know I would be interested in the config screens, the services gui, the users and admin guis, the folder and networking guis etc. This is all stuff that suse has done that is interesting to look at. It doesnt have to be graphical, suse just happens to be. Did I not visit the right screen shots or am I right about nothing to see here?

YALD (3, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12131174)


yet another linux distribution

imagine if everyone collaborated on say 5 distributions, fixed the bugs, polished the GUI's instead of the thousands of distros that are more-or-less the same thing.
MS would of been toast years ago

all the time there are these clones of each other they just dilute the brand and waste valuable manpower, these distros dont add anything significant to the table, its as if Linux innovation has stalled and now people are just resorting to changing wallpaper and icons , sticking a different logo on it and call it YALD

focus is a word that needs to be kept in mind, MS has been so successful because its a known quantity, i cant imagine the nightmares support/service companies will have in the future trying to support all these variations,
thats why Red Hat/Suse are successful
because they have a plan and are sticking to it, companies love consistancy and YALD is the complete opposite

Looks like WBEL is being discontinued... (5, Interesting)

sasha328 (203458) | more than 9 years ago | (#12131177)

I went to the WBEL [whiteboxlinux.com] website, got re-directed to Whiteboxlinux.net and this is what I saw:
I've been actively involved in the CentOS community for the past several months. As most of you know I've become disinterested in WBEL. CentOS is nearly the same as WBEL with a few minor exceptions: updates occur in a timely fashion (usually 24 hours), the developers are accessible (even if via IRC), and there is an active community (again in IRC atm).
CentOS has launched a new dedicated site at http://www.centos.org [centos.org]
I have prepared a migration page for moving from wbel to CentOS. http://www.centos.org/modules/smartfaq/faq.php?faq id=19 [centos.org]


I am confused now. Who's who?

Re:Looks like WBEL is being discontinued... (1)

hpxchan (827740) | more than 9 years ago | (#12131229)

whiteboxlinux.org [whiteboxlinux.org]
^^ Notice the extension. whiteboxlinux.net [whiteboxlinux.net] looks decidedly different... also, note the date of the comment you cited - December 1, 2004.

Re:Looks like WBEL is being discontinued... (5, Informative)

nonce tomar (873200) | more than 9 years ago | (#12131515)

A former user of Whitebox Linux and a semi infrequent poster to the user's list decided that whiteboxlinux.org didn't provide enough info and started this unrelated website. Subsequently he/they decided that Whitebox linux didn't meet his/their needs and put up that crappy statement. A shame as it confuses new users and spreads bogus information. I wish he/they would just take it down.

classic quote (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12131201)

It is also possible that WBEL might disappear someday

not exactly what an enterprise or any buisness for that matter wants to hear
they want reliable support, not a fly by night student project

Sloppy editing strikes again (4, Funny)

goon america (536413) | more than 9 years ago | (#12131222)

Can you spot the subtle misspelling in this statement?

"Not if you want support from Red Hat, it's not."

Answer:

There is a iterative fragment missing from this statement. I've bolded it below.

"Not if you want support from Red Hat until the whim strikes them to EOL your product, it's not."

Re:Sloppy editing strikes again (1)

madscientist003 (857924) | more than 9 years ago | (#12131254)

Your response would be much more funny if it wasn't for the subtle grammatical error in "a iterative fragment"[sic] as opposed to "an iterative fragment". Better luck next time.

Re:Sloppy editing strikes again (1)

nacs (658138) | more than 9 years ago | (#12131319)

No, he's right because the 'a' is referring to 'fragment', not 'iterative' (ie: 'a fragment').

Re:Sloppy editing strikes again (2, Funny)

hdparm (575302) | more than 9 years ago | (#12131360)

I'm not a native english speaker but I must tell you that you should be ashamed if you are.

Re:Sloppy editing strikes again (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12131590)

For the sake of education, let me clarify. The whole reason "an" exists in addition to "a" is just to make things easier to say. "A iterative fragment" doesn't sound right because there are two vowel sounds in a row. To fix it, you use "an". There is no additional meaning that's added by using "an", so it's relation to to the word it is modifying doesn't matter. Even though "hour" starts with an 'h', you say "an hour" because there are two vowel sounds in a row.

latest os design (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12131247)

i know someone is going to mod this as flamebait, then so be it. but it doesn't take away the fact that os design on linux (as well as longhorn and to an extan mac os) has been going backwards.

To make up for a lack of design, these OS designers have been adding more and more bars to the screen, in essence creating a lot of clutter. The top of the screen has an applications drop down list, quick launch toolbar, and date/time. the bottom of the screen has another button in the bottom left hand corner, a window selection bar, and a desktop selection bar. that's not it, then we have a menu bar that also stretches horizontally across the screen.

3 horizontal bars for 1 application. THAT is poor design. THAT is just adding more and more because no one is going to the trouble of doing a little research into designing something superior.

and please, don't give me the whole arguement about how the user can remove bars and whatnot. this is just a mask for poor design and complaining about changing from the default doesn't fix these problems.

oh, and for the other people who are going to say "why don't you do something about it". I think I will after I take my MCATs in a couple weeks.

I'm almost ready to dump XP (2, Interesting)

DigiShaman (671371) | more than 9 years ago | (#12131255)

...but it must be able to support my PC games. Why can't the community get togeather and create an open API like Microsofts Direct-X? Why not call the Linux version "Open-X" and start writing/porting games for this. Hell, if it becomes popular enough, then all W32 users have to do is download and install said "Open X".

PC hardware is based on a defacto standard and is interchangeable for the most part. An OS should also be the same. I would say Linux is that OS. But it really needs support from the entertainment gaming industry to push is public support to the masses.

Re:I'm almost ready to dump XP (1)

Mad Merlin (837387) | more than 9 years ago | (#12131326)

That's the whole purpose of Wine [winehq.org] , to provide an open implementation of the entire Win32 API for *nix, so that unmodified Win32 binaries can run on *nix without emulation.

Re:I'm almost ready to dump XP (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12131347)

Um...it's called OpenGl, and it's been around for a very long time.

Re:I'm almost ready to dump XP (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12131359)

That's actually not a bad idea -- only DirectX is unbelievably complicated and rebuilding something that from the ground up that could serve as a substitute for DirectX in any given game would be an incredible feat. DirectX is as complicated as it is jealously protected legally.

However, there is an "Open X"! It's called OpenGL :)

OpenGL started out as a library for educational-oriented 3D applications and has since been extended to be used in some of the most popular games, such as Unreal Tournament and Quake. In fact, if you've ever played FarCry you actually had a choice of using either DirectX or OpenGL. Different video cards perform one or the other better...it really just depends on the card. On many nVidia-based video cards FarCry played substantially better using OpenGL than it did with DirectX.

It has been suggested that OpenGL is reaching the limits of it's usability. I'm no game developer, but I find this hard to believe. OpenGL is an efficient, robust graphics library and is implemented in many current and future high performing games (Quake 4!! yesss). The best part about OpenGL is that it's open source. This means that game developers don't have to fuck with Microsofts API -- instead they can directly view the source code of the library call they're implementing and go from there. If need be, a game developer could modify OpenGL and ship this modified version of OpenGL (you end up shipping the library anyways in your binary/executable files, except in the case of cleverly implemented DLLs, which suck btw).

Plus, the WINE project is making a lot of headway. If you're a real gaming addict you can get a piece of commercial software by Transgaming called Cedega which is engineered for gaming performance. WINE is not an emulator! WINE provides the libaries needed to execute Windows executables under Linux -- which essentially means it's a native process, only it has to access libaries that are not natively implemented in Linux. As a result, game performance in WINE has repeatedly equalled or exceeded that of running in native Windows because Linux is simply more efficient with it's memory and filesystem usage.

Hope you find this post useful...basically what I'm saying is install Gentoo or Slackware so you can really get dirty tinkering with the system and get good answers for your good questions. Get ahold of Cedega for games that haven't been ported and enjoy native games (note that Quake 4 will be ported to Linux...)!

Re:I'm almost ready to dump XP (1)

mcrbids (148650) | more than 9 years ago | (#12131384)

..but it must be able to support my PC games. Why can't the community get togeather and create an open API like Microsofts Direct-X? Why not call the Linux version "Open-X" and start writing/porting games for this. Hell, if it becomes popular enough, then all W32 users have to do is download and install said "Open X".

You have an itch, why don't you scratch it? Yes, that's the "default answer" and I know it may be unpopular among the "consumers", but if you want to create an Open-X, nobody's stopping you. Otherwise, STFU.

With F/OSS, "they" really is another way of saying "you", where "why don't they do NNN" is instantly translated to "why don't I do NNN?"...

It's not like anybody's asking you to learn to code or anything. If your idea has enough merit, and is agreed upon by those who code, either because of your idea or your funding, it'll happen.

Otherwise, this is just so much tripe in a /. thread...

Re:I'm almost ready to dump XP (1)

Fjornir (516960) | more than 9 years ago | (#12131416)

mcrbids, you're my hero. I mean I was reading that post and I kept thinking "Why doesn't someone tell this whiny little whore to wipe his own ass?" and then you said it.

So because you said it I don't have to. So now I need to contribute to this project by offering you my congratulations and praise. I'm afraid I'm unable to fund this project at this time, but I would like you to keep up the crusade to tell people what's what.

I'll be helping as much as I can too.

A classic example of how NOT to support Linux (3, Insightful)

DigiShaman (671371) | more than 9 years ago | (#12131602)

"Why doesn't someone tell this whiny little whore to wipe his own ass?"
And it's attutudes like this that is EXACTLY why Linux will never succeed or appeal to the masses. Basically what your telling me is "Figure it all out and code your own solutions, or STFU".
You wanna know something? I don't program, but I am willing to look into an alternative. Microsoft maybe a monopoly, but at least I can be guaranteed some form of support for XYZ funtion of windows if I'm not able to fix it myself. Thought it might cost me, but I would rather go down that road then having to deal with condescending fuck-tards such as yourself.
I really hope you don't represent the majority of *nix users out there. Because if you do, then fuck open source.
For the record, I'm rather optimistic about the OS community. But you fit the classic example of how NOT to be of any help to a newbe in the world of Linux.

Re:I'm almost ready to dump XP (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12131395)

Its been built. No one came. Fuck, even when some of the big name titles got ported to linux sales were dismal.

And stop calling on the 'community' to do anything you're not willing to get off your ass long enough to do a 10 second google for, and then when you find it contribute a bit of time to.

The 'community' hardly exists: a smallish group of core developers for a smallish number of real projects... a figurehead or two for the not-so-real projects... and a whole bunch of whining bitching leaches like you.

Re:I'm almost ready to dump XP (2, Interesting)

dougmc (70836) | more than 9 years ago | (#12131433)

Why can't the community get togeather and create an open API like Microsofts Direct-X?
You mean like OpenGL? (Ok, yes, I know, DirectX does more than just graphics ...)

In any event, you don't usually play games on enterprise Linux distributions. So your post is rather out of place here.

I would say Linux is that OS. But it really needs support from the entertainment gaming industry to push is public support to the masses.
Since we're talking about enterprise Linux distibutions, what enterprise Linux really needs is native application support from vendors. You know, vendors like Oracle [oracle.com] , IBM [ibm.com] , BEA [bea.com] , etc. That's what it needs before it can become a viable alternative to running the sorts of products that enterprises seem to like running outside of Solaris, AIX or Windows (or a few others.)

(And if your sarcasm detector needs some calibration, click on some of the links I gave before you post a comment based on my comment ...)

Heh (5, Insightful)

theantix (466036) | more than 9 years ago | (#12131448)

You're almost ready to give up XP, but insist that software designed to run only on XP will run on Linux. Get over it -- if software makers wanted to support Linux there are many ways for them to do this -- and some of them do write crossplatform games that run just fine of Linux, but they are the minority. If you want to make the leap to Linux, you'll have to get it through your head that you're giving up many applications and hardware devices that are closed and designed to solely work with Windows.

In certain popular cases people will create workarounds in WINE/Cedega/CrossoverOffice and enthusiasts have created drivers for some of even the most closed off and niche hardware devices -- but you cannot count on them to be easy to install or to work wonderfully. So really, you have to realize that not all software and hardware will work on Linux. What I don't get is that people are perfectly willing to accept that Windows-only hardware/software won't work on the Mac, but they can't accept that it won't work on Linux.

When you buy a playstation2, you do so knowing you won't be able to play Paper Mario or other exclusive Nintendo titles. When you buy a iPod, you do so knowing you can only use iTMS for legal music purchases. And when you use Linux you must realize that certain software and hardware publishers are hostile to Linux and you can't just blindly use anything that expects Windows to be running. If you mistakenly think that one day it'll all be perfect and linux will be 100% software and hardware compatible... I'll just hope you aren't holding your breath until then.

Re:I'm almost ready to dump XP (1)

Quattro Vezina (714892) | more than 9 years ago | (#12131489)

Why can't the community get togeather and create an open API like Microsofts Direct-X?

There already is one. It's called SDL (Simple Directmedia Layer).

Re:I'm almost ready to dump XP (1)

ta bu shi da yu (687699) | more than 9 years ago | (#12131518)

Doesn't the SDL do this?

Legal Trouble... (1)

ajb2718 (842302) | more than 9 years ago | (#12131267)

Has red hat been bugging whitebox yo remove any mention of "redhat" from there website like they have with centos?

YAD! (-1, Offtopic)

spagetti_code (773137) | more than 9 years ago | (#12131268)

Yahoo! Yet Another Distro.

Just what we need to increase confusion. Look - I agree that there some justification to put this out, but do we *really* need yet another distro? A few well placed distros, each appealing to a market segment would be much better than this helter skelter rush for every man and their (yellow) dog to have a distro.

Wouldn't it be better to have 3 distros, one for techies [debian.org] , one for desktops [mandrakelinux.com] and one for servers [redhat.com] with paid with support. I know that those of you who use distro 'X' will yell "But {Debian,Mandrake,RHEL} doesn't quite match my requirements". Those 3 key distro's are very good, and I'm sure if theres some feature on some other distro, it will be available on one of these when all that hacking talent goes to just support them.

I'd rather we were all talking about and backing 3 very very good distros than over 100 [distrowatch.com] quite good ones.

Re:YAD! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12131390)

Don't for get the one for idiots [funroll-loops.org] ...

Re:YAD! (1)

ortcutt (711694) | more than 9 years ago | (#12131490)

I think this is one case where a marketplace of ideas really does work. Distributions which don't deliver for users fade away. Others take their place. And if one distribution really suits the needs of a small number of users, then they can work on that project. It's one of the things about linux that has been most beneficial. The decision that Linux is a just a kernel and that many different groups could build many different operating environments around it was brilliant.

Re:YAD! (1)

spagetti_code (773137) | more than 9 years ago | (#12131555)

I agree that in the early days, many distributions made sense. There were lots of ideas floating around - lots of innovation, beer and late night coding sessions. The best few should survive.

Those days are waning. It has come time for linux to become respectable - for coders to focus on rounding out the OS and the tools that support it. For years we have been talking about linux on the desktop, and each year we get just a tiny little bit closer. But it just aint going to happen with 100+ distros creating noise. Talk to any business developer - do a few things *very* well. 100 distros aint a few things.

I dont want to squash tinkering - playing and pushing the boundaries is what linux is all about, but how about pushing the boundaries while still using {debian,mandrake,rhel} rather than creating a whole new distro.

Just think - when all these distros disappear (and bar a few, they will), we will lose all the great ideas and cool innovations with them. Linux is here for the long haul, and we need to modify our approach to support that.

If we are going to become a real alternative to MS on the desktop, its going to take a coordination that just isn't there right now.

Re:YAD! (1)

PedanticSpellingTrol (746300) | more than 9 years ago | (#12131548)

Yahoo! Yet Another Distro.

Just what we need to increase confusion. Look - I agree that there some justification to put this out, but do we *really* need yet another distro? A few well placed distros, each appealing to a market segment would be much better than this helter skelter rush for every man and their (yellow) dog to have a distro.

Wouldn't it be better to have 3 distros, one for techies [slackware.com] , one for desktops [lycoris.com] and one for servers [novell.com] with paid with support. I know that those of you who use distro 'X' will yell "But {Slack,SuSE,SuSEE} doesn't quite match my requirements". Those 3 key distro's are very good, and I'm sure if theres some feature on some other distro, it will be available on one of these when all that hacking talent goes to just support them.

I'd rather we were all talking about and backing 3 very very good distros than over 100 quite good ones.

Wash, Rinse, Repeat.

Re:YAD! (2, Insightful)

natrius (642724) | more than 9 years ago | (#12131567)

I agree that there some justification to put this out, but do we *really* need yet another distro?

Yes. If you don't like the distro, don't use it. Distro proliferation only causes two problems: package compatablility and information overload for newbies. The first problem is a very small one if you're using an open, community based distribution. [ubuntu.com] Normal users have all their needs met in the repositories for that distro, and users who need special software either ask someone to package it for them, use alien on a provided package, or compile it themselves. The second problem can be solved by simply asking someone for a distro recommendation. Most people recommend Ubuntu or Mandrake for newbies these days, so it's not really that big of a deal.

So what happens if you declare a moratorium on distribution proliferation? Well, if you did that six months ago, we wouldn't have Ubuntu, which is fairly popular after being out for a short period of time. New distributions bring different ideas to the table, and if it works well, people will use the distro, or other distros will assimlate the ideas. Who knew that you could take Debian unstable's wide array of packages, stabilize them for a month or so, and combine them with simple configuration tools and a community that is friendly by mandate, [ubuntulinux.org] and end up with what many people were apparently waiting for?

There are many distros out there that build upon a good existing distro and try to make it better. Some try out new packaging systems. [foresightlinux.com] I disagree that eliminating all these would be better for Linux as a whole. The benefits from their existence far outweigh the pitfalls, if any.

Software? (2, Interesting)

Masq666 (861213) | more than 9 years ago | (#12131293)

I did'nt find a list over what versions of KDE, GNOME, etc it includes. where do i find it? And have anyone here tested this distro, what are the pros and cons compared to Suse or Mandrake for example?

Re:Software? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12131497)

I haven't tried White Hat. But I can show you the list of major packages [distrowatch.com] it has. But very quickly, it comes with KDE 3.3.1 and Gnome 2.8.0.

Personally I run... (1)

jefedesign (869140) | more than 9 years ago | (#12131301)

My desktop machine is currently duel booting Slackware 9.1 and FreeBSD 4.9 and I'm loving it. Just curious, but what are you guys running?

Re:Personally I run... (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12131352)

Windows XP. Back to your circlejerk.

whitebox torrent... (2, Informative)

torrents (827493) | more than 9 years ago | (#12131317)

mirror here: whitebox torrent [solidz.com]

in case it goes down (little slow) hopefully tracker doesn't go with it...

taMc0 (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12131373)

Getting 7ogethe*r to

So many flavours! (1)

mavantix (16356) | more than 9 years ago | (#12131428)

With so many flavours these days... uhhg... What ever happened to the tried and true vanilla??

Re:So many flavours! (1)

michael376071 (870451) | more than 9 years ago | (#12131543)

Hmm...I call that debian :P

mod d0wN (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12131438)

The obligitory.... (1)

theJerk242 (778433) | more than 9 years ago | (#12131488)

Does it run linux?

WBEL vs Fedora vs CentOS (2, Interesting)

diamondsw (685967) | more than 9 years ago | (#12131569)

Okay, someone please help me out here. Why would I choose WBEL/CentOS over Fedora Core? How do they relate, say, to Fedora Core 3, which has very similar specs (kernel version, Gnome version, etc).

And if there's a good reason to choose them over Fedora, should I look at WBEL or CentOS? I'm very confused by the conflicting statements on this site [whiteboxlinux.org] and those on this site [whiteboxlinux.com] . To my reading, the second site is trying to make it sound like WBEL is dead, and the CentOS FAQ "confirms" it, but that doesn't jive at all with the "official" WBEL site.

MTV will be first big customer... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12131610)

WBEL and RHEL will probably have their own slot.
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