U.S. to Require Passport To Re-Enter Country 1223
The Hobo writes "The CBC is reporting that starting in 2007, most Canadians will require a passport to cross into the United States and by 2008 Americans who crossed freely into Canada will be unable to return to the United States without a passport. The tougher new rules still allow Canadians to cross without being fingerprinted, but every person from any other country will be required to submit to fingerprinting." From the article: "Currently, Canadians and Americans are able to enter the United States with little more identification than a driver's licence or a birth certificate, though a passport has sometimes made it simpler to satisfy immigration officers at the border."
Mexico, Eh? (Score:5, Funny)
What's the big deal? Canadians and Americans still don't need passports to get home, nor do they need to worry about fingerprinting.
If you're an American without a passport, just come back through California, Mexico, and Arizona. The desert's hot, you'll pick up lots of dust, and after a few days' hiking, you'll have picked up a nice Mexican tan. Se Habla Espanol! You're in!
If you're a Canadian without a passport, remember that you're indistinguishable from the American as long as you remember to pronounce it "owwwwt" (like you stubbed your toe), instead of "oot" (like if you're going oot and aboot), and if you can pretend that Budweiser is beer for a few days. Grab a six-pack of Bud for your American friend and follow him across the desert. Then take a US domestic flight (for which no passport is required) to New York State. Go to the Six Nations Reserve and offer to haul some smokes 'n' booze in across the St. Lawrence. If it's winter, you can even walk home, eh?
Or remotely sniff the RFID off some other poor schlub and just use his passport.
Seriously, what's the big deal? Don't have a passport, go to Mexico, eh? :)
Re:Mexico, Eh? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Mexico, Eh? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Mexico, Eh? (Score:5, Informative)
The idea is that they will no longer accept your claim to be an American citizen unless you have a passport. If you can produce such, you've satsified the requirement, and they've got no reason to prevent your entry.
Of course it's not (Score:5, Insightful)
The US lacks a citizen ID card like many nations have, so the only real document that works is a passport.
Re:Of course it's not (Score:5, Insightful)
To be fair, it is a huge country. You could stay safely within our borders your whole life and still be very well travelled. In reality though, the type of people who brag about never having left the country have probably never left their home state.
No you couldn't (Score:5, Insightful)
Or, for another example, take China. I've only seen a little bit of China, the bit near Hong Kong. But you get a sense of just how quickly parts of China are growing when you go there.
hah (Score:4, Insightful)
i'm a red state resident (and by intention) and i voted to the right of the current administration (by european standards)
i just spent a month in germany and iceland, including 2 weeks of schooling in the german language.
I for the life of me cannot understand where the radical left, and those who foam at the mouth with their hatred of the US / the current admnistration come from.. i've yet to hear of a perfect politician but man, i just dont get the fuss. With this in mind, i figured i'd hear it from the horses mouth and come back to the states with some kind of new perspective on life.
Instead what i learned is that at least from the people i spoke with, the violently anti-US and anti-bush fever is fed and spun basically everywhere, and its almost more of a beleif/perspective than anything objective.
After being badgered about it for a while, I tried asking some relatives in iceland why they felt the need to tell me that they hated GWB (i never brought up poltiics, but plenty of people, upon finding i was american, told me they hated Bush, are hoping hillary clinton wins in 08, and that the US government sucks.. all totaly out of context of whatever the conversation was)
What i got was: europeans generally dislike bush for 3 reasons
1) iraq invasion
2) "he's too right wing"
3) "he's too religious"
skipping point 1, i asked about the other two.
regarding point #2, i asked if being "right wing" was intrinsically bad. it apparently isn't. then i pointed out that, compared to europe, the US _is_ right wing, and furthermore, the US was founded by people that either couldn't stand, couldn't survive, or couldn't legally continue to, put up with the bullshit of the governments of europe, so if we dont have the same exact world view, there's a reason for that. I also assured him that some in the US are vastly more "right wing" than GWB, who has really let down some of the red state voters on some issues..
on point 3, well, i asked what the objection was. apparently the president should never use "God" in a speech. Nevermind that our money has "In god we trust" written on it. Nevermind also that in Iceland, the president's house has its own private church on the grounds, and the president is expected to enter that building to pray for the country in times of danger. Or that in Germany, you've got the Christian Democratic party with a huge percentage of power. Yet the US/GWB is seen as beeing "too religious". Riiiiiiight.
I also had a very interesting discussion on the iraq war issue with them, and i wouldn't say that they had a compelling argument, although thats too much flamebait even for slashdot
In any case, I really liked some of the things big government and overregulation gets you (like the munich public transit system, and unrestricted autobahns... only possible with the ridiculous TUV and licensing process in germany).. but after talking with people and finding a lot more heat than light, i was glad to be returning to the US. My wife is exicted about purchasing our first family firearm, since the students we met from dublin told us over and over that they were mortified that someone in the US could have a gun in their home, and that such a person would be insane, and that they'd never even enter a _building_ with resident-owned firearms inside.. fearing for their safety.
Finally, i told the people that were frothy at the mouth about how awful the US government was, that, unlike their countries, if they disliked how the US did things, they could move here, learn english (which most europeans under the age of 40 know quite well anyhow), pay their $75 or whatever it is, vote, and do something to change it.
In any case, I look forward to going back to Germany as often as possible, if for no other reason than the Nurburgring and the unrestricted zones, but one reason i suspect i'll never live there is that getting residency/citizenship in germany is a he
Why "Europe" doesn't like GWB. (Score:4, Insightful)
- The man can't do public speaking.
- He contradicts himself frequently
- He lies or is completely out to lunch about the "facts"
...
But of all his faults, his biggest is that he's too brash. The people who criticize him without too much reasoning often do so because they simply dislike the way that he pushes his "ideas" through.I don't dislike him for having ideas (though I don't like the majority of them), and I don't dislike him for being strong. But I do dislike him for the way he uses his power.
I liked Clinton, though to be brutally honest, he did a terrible job on most fronts. But he had a great way of making people feel good about what he was doing (or at least said he was going to do). When he pushed his weight around, it was all behind the scenes. Heck, Clinton was a better republican than either of the Bushes when it comes to cutting government spending and reducing aid programs.
GW just doesn't have finess. Very few of the "radical right" do.
This kind of politics may play well in some parts of the US, or even during spike periods (e.g. around elections and "hot-button" issues...though often on irrelevant issues)...but it often divides that country. And for "foreigners" (like me), it often pits many who would have little-to-no opinion of "Americans" to be rather upset with them.
Re:hah (Score:4, Informative)
Have fun trying to reconcile this quote:
"It's not really a conflict, because the (Texas) law addresses different types of disputes, meaning the dispute between decision-maker and physician," he said. "The Schiavo case is a disagreement among family members."
with this fact:
"Bioethicists familiar with the Texas law said Monday that if the Schiavo case had occurred in Texas, her husband would be the legal decision-maker and, because he and her doctors agreed that she had no hope of recovery, her feeding tube would be disconnected."
And here's the punchline (if I may be so crude):
"With the permission of a judge, a Houston hospital disconnected a critically ill infant from his breathing tube last week against his mother's wishes after doctors determined that continuing life support would be futile."
There's your culture of life in a nutshell.
As a side note, there are those who believe the infant's race (black) was the reason the media (and entire Republican party) were so apathetic. I personally disagree. I don't think this story would have made front pages if he were Mexican or Asian either.
Re:Of course it's not (Score:4, Interesting)
That's all well and fine, but the fact is that the majority of us Americans lack a passport.
Umm, I'd say the numbers look a lot different when you look at Americans that actually travel internationally.
For those leaving the borders, a passport is a reasonable requirement.
Re:Of course it's not (Score:5, Insightful)
This assumption has more to do with spin doctoring and pointing fingers than actual facts. One glaring fact you've omitted is that the terrorists of 9/11 were granted student and visitor visas by none other than US Immigration. That, my friend, had nothing to do with Canada. Yet somehow the speculation that the terrorists came in through Canada got stuck in people's minds.
Nothing to see here, please move on... (Score:5, Informative)
I didn't know this issue was a big deal. In fact I thought it was already a done deal. Last time I went to Canada from Seattle the border agent told me that my Driver's License was not "adequate ID" to enter Canada and I may not be able to re-enter the U.S. This was two years ago. Of course the funny thing being right after he told me this he let me go on through. Yes, it was just a warning to get people like me prepared to need to use a passport. So I got one. No big deal. I'm not going to be able to go to Europe, South America, or Asia without one anyway, why not Canada?
Re:Of course it's not (Score:5, Insightful)
Then terrorists started coming in through Canada because it was so easy.
Actually according to the head of Interpol, you're full of it [canada.com] and then some. Oh and who's this commie, UN-loving, left wing tree-hugger Nobel guy anyway? Turns out he was "a former law professor at New York University and one-time chief law enforcement officer for the U.S. Treasury Department". He must not have a clue, EH? Of course, another post already mentioned that the 9/11 terrorists had US Immigration visas, but pay no attention to that.
How reliable do you think it is for someone at the border to have to check each and every ID to make sure it matches one of the 50 valid formats that we have?
Actually, quite. If you've ever worked as a Customs/Immigration officer (which I have), you would know that border guards have access to a handly little book that gives minute details and colour pictures of every federal, provincial, territorial, and state-issued ID from North America. So it really isn't that hard to spot a fake card in practice (just ask any 18-year old Michiganian trying to come and drink in Canada with a fake ID).
Oh, I really liked this one too:
Get a passport so we'll know you have a right to come back without further hassle
Can't speak about the US here, but in Commie Canada, all citizens have the right to enter the country as they wish(see paragraph 6.1 [justice.gc.ca]). Let me repeat - it is ILLEGAL for a Canadian citizen to be detained while entering Canada, unless there is an outstanding warrant for their arrest or they are contravening the Customs Act in some manner.
Your comments leave me to believe you were flamebaiting, but I in case you weren't, I had to take a swing at it.
Re:Of course it's not (Score:5, Funny)
At the time I was a Canadian resident ("landed immigrant"), my brother's a Canadian citizen by birth. We were driving back from Ohio, heading to cross at Detroit/Windsor. About half way there I realized I'd left my (British) passport, along with some other papers, at my girlfriends house (where we'd been visiting). I was a little nervous about crossing without it, even though the usual routine when reentering in a vehicle with Ontario plates was just "where do live" and "how long were you gone".
As it happened, we (me driving) decided to cross through the downtown tunnel, rather than the bridge (I think we just missed the turnoff). Still just a little nervous, we pulled up to the Canadian C&I booth, and I waited for the -- I hoped usual -- questions.
The agent gives us both a look, leans over, and says "got any guns?"
"Uh, what? No."
"Okay, go ahead."
And away we went.
This was about 17 years ago, I imagine it's a little different now, even if that is a very busy crossing.
Re:Of course it's not (Score:5, Interesting)
I didn't have a passport and thanks to the US's wonderful mail system I didn't have my birth certificate either (something about paying for priority mail to have it take 2 WEEKS). We decided to go anyways. Worse case scenario I had wasted about 7 hours of my life.
Anyhow, we get there and they ask where we are going. We answer Vancouver. They ask why. We tell them we're visiting friends. They ask if we have a gun. We (surprised) say no. They tell us to have a nice trip.
About 3 km up the road I turn to my friend Chris and say "does that mean if we have two gunS we would have rightfully said no?" He laughs and we enjoy Canada.
Four days later and it's time to go home. We get back to the border and the US Border Guard asks for our proof of citizenship and if we have anything to declare. We answer "two liters of gin" as I hand over a drivers license and social security card and my friend hands over a passport. He doesn't even act like he cares... he fills out a little piece of paper and tells us to take it inside. We follow orders and then I realize I'm being forced through immigration. The guy inside takes my ID and runs what I can only assume was a background check. After that he spends about 4 minutes chastising me.
Long story short I got back in. I knew they'd let me in eventually... even if it ment waiting till morning when they could call the state and verify that I was, in fact, born here. What scares me is that, if I read it right, that may not be the case in a few years. What am I supposed to do if I get stuck at the border? I can't work in Canada and I can't get home.
Re:Of course it's not (Score:5, Insightful)
WTF? The 9/11 terrorists were documented and legally in America as Saudi nationals. They weren't here pretending to be "Americans returning home from Canada".
Re:Mexico, Eh? (Score:5, Insightful)
God damn that country scares me. Every day they look more and more like Germany in the 30s. Constant surveillance of its citizenry, living in a nice comfy womb of propaganda, secrets, secret police, imprisoning people without trial or accountability, ever increasing unification between the corporations and the goverment, the ever increasing religious rhetoric of the leadership, government rewriting science, I mean fuck. They're scary enough without having all the worlds nukes and a president that can't string his words together.
And the proud American moderators will bring this offensive post to -1 in a heartbeat.
We're from Microsoft and we're here to help (Score:5, Funny)
Trust us.
The big secret (Score:3, Funny)
Re:The big secret (Score:5, Insightful)
In particular:
How does that work? If you think of a passport as something you need to enter another country, then if you need to get into the US, then you are by definition coming from another country, so you would have taken your passport when entering that other country in the first place...so you'll still have your passport when you return to try to get into the US, right? Or are people leaving the US with their passports, and leaving their passports abroad when they come back?
As that's not likely :-), I assume it's really because American people don't generally think of Canada as 'another country' like they do with other countries? I mean, it's similar, has a land border, they (mostly) speak the same language, etc.
Or am I missing some other cultural effect?
Re:Mexico, Eh? (Score:5, Funny)
Yes, because these states all share a border with Canada, right?
I think you might wanna brush up on your geography a little.
Re:Mexico, Eh? (Score:5, Funny)
Brits: Shop at home and have goods imported because they live on an island.
Aussies: Shop at home and have goods imported because they live on an island.
Americans: Cross the southern border for cheap shopping, gas, & liquor in a backwards country.
Canadians: Cross the southern border for cheap shopping, gas, & liquor in a backwards country.
Because passports are never wrong! (Score:5, Insightful)
I don't see how we are more "protected" than the current system [house.gov].
Re:Because passports are never wrong! (Score:4, Informative)
The US will then be able to track the movements of its citizens around the Interstates and across the border. It will then know when you left, when you came back, and where you went after.
It will all be a part of your little running history.
Keep RFID tags out of cars, passports, items in stores, etc.
Re:Because passports are never wrong! (Score:3, Funny)
What's next? Interstate travel? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:What's next? Interstate travel? (Score:3, Interesting)
Sometimes I think that this might actually happen.
Consider this: on one of my regular drives, it's not unusual for me to be pulled over, asked for identification, where I was coming from, and where I'm headed to, and if the officer doesn't like my answers (or I decline to answer), I get to wait until they've checked my ID and vehicle information over.
Seriously, having my US Passport is handy (and I'm about as honky-appearing
Re:What's next? Interstate travel? (Score:3, Funny)
Well, if you'd stop driving 93 MPH this wouldn't happen as much.
Re:What's next? Interstate travel? (Score:4, Insightful)
Supporting stats: http://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/top/dst/2004/1 2/balance.html [census.gov]
Re:What's next? Interstate travel? (Score:5, Insightful)
Interstate travel in the US already requires full identification, logged permanently by the government -- that is, if you want to travel at a tolerable speed. Unless you're wealthy enough to afford a personal jet, you can't fly without the equivalent of showing a passport. (see freetotravel.org [freetotravel.org])
This situation is only getting worse. Even interstate buses and trains now usually require ID for ticket purchases.
Re:What's next? Interstate travel? (Score:3, Insightful)
I dunno about that...rights are not 'granted' by the constitution or bill of rights...I think it pretty much says, a right is still a right even if it is not enumerated.
So, unless there is specifically a law or amendment against something, it is a right. S
Re:What's next? Interstate travel? (Score:5, Insightful)
I remember when I was a kid, I was always told that one of the GREAT things about my country that made us better than the evil communists was that I could travel around my country without having to show my papers, without having to prove who I was, etc.
I was told horror stories of the Soviet Union, about how to go between republics I'd have to show my papers at a checkpoint so they could track who I was and where I was going. I was told how evil this was and how I was lucky to be born in the U.S.A. where we had freedom and liberty and didn't have to show our identification in daily life.
Twenty years later and I have to show my ID whenever I travel. I guess since we don't have the Soviet Union anymore, so we don't have to be better than them.
We live in sad times.
Re:What's next? Interstate travel? (Score:5, Insightful)
Because, as George Bush pointed out not long after the Sept 11 2001 attacks, the terrorists have won.
I quote from memory;
"If the terrorists can make us change our way of life then they will have won".
Thanks for stating the obvious, George, but the game is obviously over.
Re:What's next? Interstate travel? (Score:4, Insightful)
Strip searches and/or full body x-ray exams would be a potentially useful law enforcement tool for airline travel, and would only add a few minutes of inconvience. I still don't want them.
The right (not freedom, right) to travel anonymously is an important part of freedom of religion, speech, and of the press. There are times where having one's whereabouts known can place you at risk from a government which is not behaving lawfully or others (ex-spouce, stalkers, etc.) You can tell a lot about a person by where and what he does. The more power the government has over our daily lives, the more harm a corrupt politician (is that reudndant?) could cause.
Personally, I have a problem with any system that starts with an assumption of guilt. For example, I have no problem with searching a person in a public place because he was behaving in a overtly suspicious manner, or presenting a visible danger to himself or others. I do have a problem with searching everyone, on the assumption that they may be guilty.
The fact of the matter is that everyone is _always_ guilty of something, and accordingly _always_ a suspect for something or other. With our system of laws as convoluted as it is, the day you break no law is the day you don't get out of bed.
Please! (Score:5, Interesting)
Seriously. They've already shown they'll use whatever loopholes they can find in the Bill of Rights. Like right now, we've got several thousand people incarcerated on the territory of an unfriendly power [cubagov.cu], because it'd be illegal to incarcerate them anywhere else!
Re:What's next? Interstate travel? (Score:3, Funny)
I remember when.. (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:I remember when.. (Score:5, Interesting)
I once went to Canada with three Japanese students who were studying in America. When we got to the Canadian border control, I went inside the office with them in case they had linguistic problems. The official there looked at each of their passports, looked at their visas for the U.S., then stamped that they'd entered Canada.
He looked to me with his hand out as if expecting another passport. I simply answered, "I'm a citizen." He smiled and let us through.
The Americans did check my driver's license on the way back, though.
'Course, this was 15 years ago.....
Re:I remember when.. (Score:5, Interesting)
I was up near Canada and decided to go and visit Toronto. So I drove across some bridge (with US Immigration at one end and Canadian Immigration at the other) and rocked up to the office.
I gave the guy my Passport which he checked over and duly stamped. He then tells me: 'You know you can't get back into the USA now, right?'
Apparently there is/was some very peculiar rule whereby if you leave the USA via a different means than you entered (eg. I flew into the USA but exited by car) then your Visa was no longer valid for USA entry.
After a brief panic attack on my part the Canadian Immigration guy called up the Yanks at the other end of the bridge and they discussed it for a few minutes. The Yanks said it should be okay to get back in, which I eventually did at Niagra Falls. The Yank there looked at the Passport and Visa and just waved me through.
I just can't believe the Canadian Immigration guy stamped my Passport and *then* told me the consequences of him doing that.
returning americans (Score:5, Funny)
Say goodbye (Score:4, Interesting)
"Goodbye, those funky round flat bacon, hockey teams.."
"Goodbye, to those maple leaf brothers."
The door will go from wide-open to slightly ajar....
(sigh)
Re:Say goodbye (Score:5, Insightful)
from the beef ban to the tarifs on soft wood, now tightening the border only makes canadians not want to vacation in the US.. or for that matter have anything to do with americans.. which is a shame really.
Re:Say goodbye (Score:5, Interesting)
America has ceased to be a country that others might aspire to. Other countries have experienced terrorism for many decades without becoming so draconian, so it's funny that the US, the supposed land of the free, overreacted so dramatically.
It's a crying shame really...
How do you think we feel? (Score:5, Insightful)
Excuse me, but how do you think we feel about it? Any Americans with two neurons left to rub together to make a spark is saddened by the souring of our relationship with you. And not just you but just about every other country on the planet.
How would you like to be saddled with George Bush and have 52% of your fellows think he's just a great guy? And then try to blame you for their vote because you didn't come up with a better candidate. Try it for a while and see how it feels.
We're watching a country we love descend into ignorance, intolerance and fear.
how hard would it be eh? (Score:4, Funny)
Re:how hard would it be eh? (Score:3, Funny)
Drivers License? Used to be freer than that (Score:5, Interesting)
Used to be freer than that (Score:3, Insightful)
Man, I've been hearing that my whole life (sigh).
Re:Drivers License? Used to be freer than that (Score:5, Insightful)
I get waved through all the time too. My cousin, on the other hand, has gotten his car ripped apart.
Exactly! Despite all the hand-wringing here, that's what this change is actually all about.
The formal rules for who can come and go haven't changed, what has changed is just the level of proof that a person has to supply in order to come into the country. Previously if a white, accent-free American went to Canada and upon returning said "I'm a citizen", he or she would be pretty much just let in. But if an arab-looking American with an accent went to Canada and upon returning said "I'm a U.S. citizen", do you think he or she would just waltz in? I doubt it. But do you think America really should let any person who says "I'm a U.S. citizen" waltz into the country with little or no proof?
This change "levels the field" by setting common, enforceable criteria for entering the country. If you have a valid U.S. passport or a foreign passport with an appropriate visa, you can come in, regardless of race, accent, or appearance. If you don't, well... I guess you'll be spending the afternoon at the U.S. consulate while they check you out more thoroughly.
P.S. Driver's licenses and birth certificates are essentially "no proof" as the former does not actually indicate citizenship or residency, the latter doesn't have a photo, neither has a standard format, and both are easy to fake.
yet another reason (Score:5, Insightful)
come to canada instead [travelcanada.ca] - all of the beauty - none of the ph34r
Re: not really (Score:5, Funny)
It's so busy with tourists during your summer month.
Not really a 'rights' issue (Score:5, Insightful)
Now, it's my understanding that a sovereign country can control their borders in any way they see fit. Perhaps there's some sort of rights argument to be made about the americans who need a passport to re-enter their country, although it doesn't seem like a major issue, but Canadians.. heck, I'm a Canadian, and it doesn't really effect our rights. America can do whatever they want with their borders to non-citizens. If they don't want to let us come in, heck, that really is their perogative.
Re:Not really a 'rights' issue (Score:5, Insightful)
It is telling, however, that Canada and the US, two of the most alike and intertwined countries on the planet, are moving apart, while at the same time the enormously diverse European Union acts in many ways like a single country.
Re:Not really a 'rights' issue (Score:4, Insightful)
right of both exit and entry: So they allow anyone, regardless of nationality, into the country and without checking ID?
difficult to obtain: I (in the USA) can get the form at any post office or AAA office or any of a number of places, along with the photos the require. Sounds like Canada is putting up a barrier to you getting one.
non-free document: Your dirvers license probably wasn't free either. In VA,USA I had to pay $15 for it (lasts 5 years). If I got a regular state ID that would also cost money. Besides, if you can't afford the $87 (Canadian$, not US$), you probably can't afford to go many places.
Re:Not really a 'rights' issue (Score:5, Insightful)
Really folks, get a grip. You're just an anonymous airport with a transit lounge we sit in for an hour. The only difference between transit in Hong Kong or Singapore and LAX is that LAX is full of cunts who want to fingerprint you for no good reason.
Whew! (Score:3, Funny)
Think of the children (Score:5, Insightful)
Think of a typical family of four. My own just did this. Say this family wants to go to Disneyland from Canada. As it stands, my parents were able to go with the young'ns without a problem, and none of them have passports. Tourists from Canada are a part of the US economy. Had the passports been required, it would have cost [pptc.gc.ca]: 87 + 87 + 37 + 37, plust GST, which is a total of 265.36$, and that doesn't even include the trouble of finding a guarantor and taking passport photos which cost more than normal photos. This is on top of any other travel costs, likely for a single trip. This will most definitely deter Canadians from visiting and spending money in the US. Not to mention that passports take at least 3 weeks to get, ruling out any sudden decisions to say pick a US ski package to a Canadian one. I personally enjoy taking trips to the US, but this makes it much harder, and I'm certain this scenario will be repeated.
Re:Think of the children (Score:5, Interesting)
As you say, this will decrease the number of "impulse tourists" who don't otherwise travel abroad, but I doubt this will put a serious dent in the US tourism budget. Those people will probably just deal with the longer line at the border to get the proper tourist card or whatever.
How is this "online"? (Score:3, Insightful)
YRO, IIRC, is "Your Rights Online". And don't say, "Your reading it online, right?" 'Cause that would be "Your Rights, Online".
War on Terror..... oops... I mean Tourism (Score:5, Funny)
The EU (Score:5, Interesting)
Further, I hope Canada reciprocates and requires americans to have valid passports.
"I forgot my passport day" (Score:3, Interesting)
Deportation (Score:4, Funny)
Give Us Your Tired, Your Poor, Your Huddled Masses (Score:5, Insightful)
"I'm sorry sir, but your papers are not in order.."
Yeah, not gonna happen. (Score:3, Interesting)
Not gonna happen.
what about when the shoe is on the other foot? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:what about when the shoe is on the other foot? (Score:4, Informative)
Goto places in Europe and alot of asian countries and you find things like the requirement to carry your passport with you all the time, or the hotels take and sometimes keep your passport the entire time you are staying with them. The hotels photo copy the passport and it is sent to the police.
Re:what about when the shoe is on the other foot? (Score:4, Informative)
- The large "We want our homeland back but we'd never live there" contingent of ex-Cubans living in Florida have a lot of political pull.
- We're still angry because we failed to topple them after they nationalised "our" assets down there.
- They are the only communist government in the western hemisphere that we have not been able to topple, in direct conflict with the Monroe Doctrine.
- They turned to the Soviet Union for aide after we gave them the cold shoulder.
- The Cuban Missile Crisis, though most Americans don't really care abiout that one.
Mostly we're pissed off because of the whole "commies at our doorstep" thing and we're horrifically sore losers. We choose to forget that Castro came to us for aide and we turned him away.Kinder, Safer Nation (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Kinder, Safer Nation (Score:5, Insightful)
And it all could have been prevented by steel cockpit doors. Something so simple, that any retard airline should have fixed right away. Instead they come out will all sorts of scare tactics. I can honestly say I am not scared of terrorists. If they come on an airplane, I am tearing the motherfucker a new asshole. No boxcutter is going to scare me. I am more worried about pilots who fly 12 hours in a row, with no sleep. I hate to say it, but maybe if those flights had a couple of people with balls, none of 9/11 would have happened. But Osama was right, he hit us where we are soft, in our decadent self-absorbed, gluttonous, sit_on_our_ass selves. The avarage American knows nothing about our foriegn policy, who we are helping, who we are bombing and killing, who we are supplying guns to. And the avarage American does not give a fuck. So fuck us for being so dumb and self absorbed. At least we have the red necks, whom government can call on in the thousands to go fight.
I think it should be very easy to travel, to have a good time. I would like to see passports done away with, people free to go anywhere they want. If we did not have a fucked up foriegn policy, the Arabs in the middle east would be loving us and wanting to be more like us. But it is hard to admire a wealthy country when they bomb your homeland. We never should have gotten involved in the middle east. The first universities in the world were all in the Middle East. The people who lived in that area welcomed Americans with open arms, wanting nothing but to enjoy our company and share a cup of tea. They did not want to change our culture, or for us to change theirs, but to enjoy our differences.
Before the first war, gas was $0.95 a gallon. Today, gas is over $2.30 a gallon. Tell me again why we are over there, because it ain't security! We need to get rid of the Isrealie lobbyists from our country, they are more of a problem than Mexicans who come here to work 6 or 7 months and go home. But once again, we got them rednecks patroling the boarder keeping us safe. And at the same time making another group of people hate us.
Will this hurt draft dodgers? (Score:3, Interesting)
has anyone asked Canada??? (Score:5, Funny)
Has anyone asked Canada what they think about all the dickhead americans that didn't bring their passport with them being left in their country...american arrogance at it's best:
America: And if you don't bring your passport we won't let you back.
Canada: Hang aboot...don't we get a say in who get's to stay in our country and for how long?
America: Is that oil?
Canada: Oh shit
Re:has anyone asked Canada??? (Score:5, Funny)
The New Berlin Wall (Score:5, Insightful)
This isn't a security issue. This is an issue of punishing America's closest allies for following a different political destiny. It's to protect Michiganders and New Hampshirites from being exposed to affordable healthcare, gay rights and decrinminalized marijuana.
Don't think it's true? Look at the ruthless, relentless and sometimes threatening and bellicose criticism of Europe by the right-wing blogosphere, professional pundits, and administration officials like Rumsfeldt. Canada is culturally closer to Europe at this point than the US... and the US will be punishing them for that at every opportunity.
It's a new Berlin wall, to discourage cultural contamination. I can think of nothing more heartbreaking.
SoupIsGood Food
Canadians one up on us! (Score:4, Interesting)
What was interesting about that crossing was what any geek is likely to notice. As you approach the station there are cameras and lights - I'm sure that they use some recognition software and run you license plate before you ever even get close to the guard shack. Then as you pick your lane there are these posts that have a couple of convenient slots that I'm sure are also hiding cameras. The driver and the undersides of the vehicle are photographed as you slowly approach the shack.
On the return trip, the US Customs agent steps out of the shack, writes down your license plate and requests ID from you. He talks to you briefly asking a few simple questions. Didn't take more than a few seconds. But it was all manual! Clearly, at this crossing at least, the Canadians have out-spent us and out-classed us security-wise.
Tinfoil Hat Time (Score:3, Insightful)
I guess for me I'm thinking 'about time' vs. 'oh my god I'm violated'. I've had the honor of going to Canada twice now and I took my passport with me both times. I would take my passport anytime I leave the country, and Canada is one of those times.
I think of it being the opposite? Not that Canada is any harder/easier to forge papers in but what if Ahab the Arab is in Canada and actually goes through a border checkpoint instead of walking across a frozen river in the winter. Making them have to forge a few more papers shouldn't be that hard.
They've lost some 'favored nation' type status because of our history together, big deal. We make every other country use a passport to get in and that's not stopped the tourists, hell even getting them killed in florida [fumento.com] doesn't stop em.
Little border towns (Score:5, Insightful)
When I was a small child my family went on a car trip through the canadian rockies. The border guard was one guy in a booth not much larger than a photomat. There wasn't even a barrier gate across the road that lifted out of the way or anything like that, just a stop sign. This was the full extent of the border crossing questions:
guard (seeing family station-wagon): Hello folks, May I ask your purpose in entering Canada?
my Dad: sightseeing camping. (obvious from the car full of supplies).
guard: Are you planning on staying long?
my Dad: just two weeks.
guard: Do you have any guns or fruit? (What an odd combination of of questions)
my Dad - a bag of apples we just bought for lunch later.
guard: If you just bought them it should be okay. We're worried about the spread of fruit flies from further south but if you just bought them in washington they'll be fine.
guard: yup! Welcome to Canada. Have a wonderful trip.
my Dad - Don't you need to see some ID?
guard: I suppose if it will make you feel better.
The re-entry into the US was even more lax - The guard saw the license plates on the car were from the US, and asked, "Let's see - plates from Wisconsin - car packed for a camping trip - Coming back from a vacation I see? Okay - Welcome back, go on through..."
Sigh. Those were friendlier times.
Re:Little border towns (Score:5, Interesting)
Indeed. I'm reminded of the story of a New Brunswick couple who had their mail stopped for a while. They're Canadian citizens living on Canadian soil, but the only road to their home curves through American territory. One of those sleepy little border communities; they've lived there for over 50 years. In 2003 the American customs agents started "cracking down" on the couple -- in addition to stopping their mail and their newspaper, they also refused permission for any of their family to cross the border to visit them and even threatened to arrest the man for illegally crossing the border. Story #1 [nb.cbc.ca] Story #2 [www.cbc.ca].
One can only dread the kind of hassles people like that will go through now.
well (Score:5, Interesting)
It just shows another clear example of the governments agenda for the future and its all about tracking obviously.
Another invasive thing now they want to be able to use the black boxes in people's car for insurance data purposes in legal cases. Most people aren't even aware that new cars have these devices built in and are recording everything.
Aren't Canadians taxed enough??! (Score:5, Insightful)
Uhm.. no thanks. I think I'll just stay at home.
Economic losses in consequence (Score:5, Interesting)
What happened to the USA? It was a free country with ideals, and now it is becoming a tyranny.
Re:Economic losses in consequence (Score:4, Informative)
If you think Bush is a simpleton, you have (mis)underestimated him at your peril.
Then again if you think his policies, which include
- diverting bilions of public money to private corporations under the guise of social security reform (hey, it's an ownership society. It's just not owned by you)
- fingerprinting and photographing all non-citizens at the border
- sending prisoners abroad to be tortured far away from the reach of US law (to fight against those who might terrorize us)
- keeping citizens in jail indefinitely with no charges filed and no access to a lawyer (we had to destroy the Constitution in order to save it)
- alighing with military dictatorships like Pakistan (in the name of Democracy, of course)
are "reasonable" then we clearly have different views on how the United States ought to behave.
Re:passport? (Score:5, Funny)
That could never happen to me, as my voice is my passport. Please verify me.
Re:passport? (Score:5, Informative)
Re:passport? (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:YRO? (Score:4, Funny)
No, you'll have to go online to get a good fake passport.
Re:YRO? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Strange.. (Score:5, Insightful)
Idiotic statements like yours lead me to believe you are uneducated and don't understand the horrors that the Soviets put their citizens through.
Re:Strange.. (Score:3, Funny)
Depends on where you keep your passport. Zing!
Re:Strange.. (Score:3, Insightful)
Discounting the longer security lines, it's no harder for US citizens to travel internationally than it was before 9/11.
And yes, I speak from experience. Hell, I renewed my passport through the mail in under 3 weeks.
Re:Strange.. (Score:3, Insightful)
Your irrational form of persuasion was in the form of "guilt by association [nizkor.org]" which involves the application of a faulty analogy.
You are implying that merely because the United States is becoming slightly stricter with identifying who enters and leaves its' county, that they are somehow turning into the next Soviet Empire.
Another example: "Canada is becoming the next Soviet Union because of the introduction
Actually, i just spent a month in Europe (Score:4, Insightful)
After seeing first hand the memorial to the berlin wall, and the destruction all across east germany (like how none of it was rebuilt during the pre-unification years), i vowed that the next time i heard some fucking _IDIOT_ saying something positive about communisim/socialism, or trying to compare whats happening in the US to what transpired in eastern europe and the soviet union, id be sure and make my token attempt to set them straight.
You sir, are seriously lacking perspective.
My wife and i flew from the US to the EU and back and no cavities were searched. We brought back food items and the customs people were very pleasant and allowed our stuff with no problems. The metal detectors detected metal on my body i didn't realize existed (i.e. in my shoes).
Having crossed the border between canada and the US several times via car, i've always been alarmed at how lax the security was - even though the trunk of my car was searched on a few occasions (i tend to seem suspicious, i guess), i never felt it was unreasonable for the border patrol to try and ascertain if i had a trunk full of bodies or guns or something.
I am all for extremely strong border protections. All are welcome in the US, so long as they play by the rules, which are set and enforced by the sole discretion of the US. I wish we were putting our troops on the mexican border instead of some of the other places they're currently deployed, but thats political suicide (behaving reasonably often is)
Controlling who enters and exits the US is a good idea. You can be sure that what the US is doing - trying to do a marginal job at asking "so, who are you?" is a damn sight less invasive than shooting women in the back, which is how things were handled in some of the regimes you're comparing the US to.
Re:Actually, i just spent a month in Europe (Score:5, Informative)
I'll happily say something positive about socialism. I lived in a socialist state for a year. Health care was excellent and available to all. The rail system and mass transit were heavily subsidized by the state; they boasted the fastest trains in the world, and the mass transit was so good that I only rode in a car a handful of times while there. Public space was safe and surprisingly clean for the size of the city I lived in; you could walk through acres of parks free of charge and free of fear for your personal safety. The workweek was heavily regulated by the government; as a result, I actually got a chance to discover what it was like to actually enjoy life. Taxes were astronomically high, but the funny thing was that you didn't really mind because life was good--you could lead an immensely satisfying and fulfilling life without having to burn through mounds of money. There were problems--there always are--but on balance, they had a much better grasp of what it means to live a good life as part of a society than the typical American does.
This country was, of course, France--a socialist state through and through.
Don't make the mistake of assuming that socialism equates to Soviet-style autocracy. Socialism can and does work, when joined with the principles of a free people and the democratic process.
Re:Phew! (Score:3, Insightful)
Last time I travelled to Japan I was required to show my passport upon re-entering the United States. Last time I travelled to Europe (more than ten years ago!), same thing.
The deal we had with Canada was a special thing. You don't have any "right" to travel to another country and then re-enter without a passport. In fact, most countries requi
Re:Phew! (Score:5, Insightful)
Right...well, perhaps not. But history has been on the side of paperless travel, in particular with regards to Canada. They only began immigration checks on the US-Canada border in the 1950s (I remember reading somewhere that there were riots when this started, it was very controversial.) Since about the 1980s Congress has mandated a passport for Americans travelling from countries from outside of the Western Hemisphere. A lot of that rule still stands...I can go to just about any Carribbean country with my birth certificate, and even my home country of Costa Rica decided to cash in on the tourist dollars and allow Americans to travel there with just a birth certificate. It's possible that, if the US never required Americans to have a passport for re-entry, than neither would have the Japanese for your trips.
On a side note, apparently, the passport was created during World War I as a temporary document intended to prevent spies from crossing european borders. It was not a document viewed well...europeans were horrified by the idea that they would require documentation to go across borders. I'm amused by the bogus reasoning for its creation...it gives me a little satisfaction to know that people were as dumb then as they are now.
There are certainly people stopped from going one way or another on the US-Canadian border, but it still has not been proven that there's an aggregate security increase from documented crossing than without documented crossings. It's possible our time would be better spent doing different types of security checks than documentation checks.
What does 1984 have to do with anything? (Score:5, Insightful)
After that, then I'll maybe have some time to listen to your lame 1984 analogies -- you paranoid nutcase.
Re:Boundary Waters (Score:3, Interesting)
Really? (Score:3, Informative)
Look at this [zdnet.com]
The juicy bit
"McCain envisions erecting physical checkpoints, dubbed "screening points," near subways, airports, bus stations, train stations, federal buildings, telephone companies, Internet hubs and any other "critical infrastructure" facility deemed vulnerable to terrorist attacks. Secretary Tom Ridge would appear to be authorized to issue new federal IDs--with biometric identifiers--that Americans could be required to show at checkpoi
Re:what? (Score:3, Funny)