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More Details on Zelda Emerge

Zonk posted more than 9 years ago | from the link-the-farmer dept.

GameCube (Games) 95

Cube.IGN has more details on the upcoming Legend of Zelda title, gleaned from Spanish gaming publication Hobby Consolas. From the article: "From screens printed in the magazine, the new outfit looks to blend peasant clothes of different cultures to achieve an altogether unique style. These same screens show the Triforce emblazoned on Link's left hand. Cool indeed. Link himself looks different from any other Zelda title. Eiji Aonuma wanted Link to sport a manga-inspired look, partly because the Link shown in the Space World 2000 looked like a lifeless puppet." Commentary on the single-mindedness of the fanboi rumormill available on Press the Buttons.

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OMG (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12314357)

Link gets some pussy! [ign.com]

Re:OMG (2, Funny)

Albert Pussyjuice (675113) | more than 9 years ago | (#12314396)

Those fucks at Nintendo are totally ripping off Cat-Rape '88, for the Commodore. I am completely and utterly disgusted with Nintendo's lack of innovation on this front and will immediately stop playing my SNES and cease all thought of buying a Nintendo 64. The best games are always the oldest and most obscure ones because my ownership of them and non-acceptance of newer games proves how elite I am.
In conclusion, I came up with the idea for Oregon Trail and have seen Sid Maier nude.

Re:OMG (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12314981)

Man, /. moderation is always wrong. This comment was way funnier than the grandparent.

Re:OMG (2, Funny)

Fred Or Alive (738779) | more than 9 years ago | (#12316572)

What would Mrs Slocome say?

Re:OMG (1)

ricotest (807136) | more than 9 years ago | (#12335977)

Oh lol I see what you did there it was a cat not a vagina! Hahahaha!!

Werewolf-Vegetables (1)

ThePolkapunk (826529) | more than 9 years ago | (#12314374)

This is awesome! I've been desperate to get a werewolf-vegetable farming game ever since they dropped that feature from Harvest Moon!

Re:Werewolf-Vegetables (1)

krakelohm (830589) | more than 9 years ago | (#12318998)

As soon as I saw this post it instantly reminded me of Bunnicula [amazon.com] , remember?

Fanboi? (4, Funny)

HAKdragon (193605) | more than 9 years ago | (#12314498)

I think Zonk needs to either pick up a dictionary and/or stop listening to Avril Lavigne ... Oh and new Zelda game, kickass!

Re:Fanboi? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12314581)

That's a common spelling. Imagine a rapper saying it with the "oi" part drawn out.

Re:Fanboi? (1)

Leiterfluid (876193) | more than 9 years ago | (#12316627)

Common to whom? And I think you mean "misspelling"

Re:Fanboi? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12319516)

Well it's common in some circles anyway:
See what Urban Dictionary [urbandictionary.com] has to say.

Re:Fanboi? (1)

hunterx11 (778171) | more than 9 years ago | (#12317774)

Fanboi is clearly a piece-of-garbage neologism.

We all know, however, that "vid boi" [bungie.org] is a real term.

Pictures from the magazine (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12314528)

at GamesAreFun. [gamesarefun.com]

Re:Pictures from the magazine (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12315041)

More here [gamecubenetwork.com] .

I have high expectations... (5, Insightful)

Lyphen (825908) | more than 9 years ago | (#12314548)

Let's just hope the game meets them. I want WW's climactic ending, but with less fetch-quests (they can be added as side-quests, whatever. I just don't want to search for triforce pieces again), and more dugeons. Eiji Aonuma looks like the kind of guy with a new vision that could accomplish this quite well.

Re:I have high expectations... (5, Interesting)

|/|/||| (179020) | more than 9 years ago | (#12316079)

I agree, but my single biggest complaint with WW was the fact that it was way too easy. The dungeons weren't very complicated, and none of the enemies were dangerous. The "savage labyrinth" may have been long, but it certainly didn't put you in danger of actually dying - especially with the help of the boomerang.

The triforce piece finding didn't bother me too much, but I was disappointed to find that the map just led to simple treasure chests, rather than an underwater dungeon for each piece.

These are really just nit picks, though. WW was a really fun game to play.

Re:I have high expectations... (4, Interesting)

SetupWeasel (54062) | more than 9 years ago | (#12316870)

I have never enjoyed a Zelda game as much as I enjoyed the Wind Waker. I've always been someone who hated games that were too difficult. If I want frustration, I'll work overtime.

The Wind Waker could have been a little harder, but to be honest, I never thought about it while playing.

Re:I have high expectations... (1)

|/|/||| (179020) | more than 9 years ago | (#12318358)

Oh yeah, I absolutely agree that it's just a nit pick. The original LOZ is probably a bit too hard if you don't already know where everything is. LTTP was a good balance, though. So was OOT.

I'm definitely looking forward to the next Zelda, as I have every reason to believe that it will rock. Every iteration seems to improve on the previous in terms of control and immersiveness. Interesting that the series is experimenting with different graphical styles, too. There were a lot of vocal people complaining about the cell shading, but I think it's a great way to mix things up. I certainly hope we'll see more of it in the future.

Re:I have high expectations... (1)

SetupWeasel (54062) | more than 9 years ago | (#12318657)

I don't know about you, but ever since I saw Dragon's Lair in the arcades as a kid, I wanted to play a cartoon. It only took 20 years for Nintendo to make it possible.

I can't help but feel that Zelda's new style is Nintendo selling out. I hope I'm wrong, and it is really what they wanted to do.

Re:I have high expectations... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12319787)

That feeling of "playing a cartoon" is exactly what I got out of WW. It was an amazing experience, even though the play mechanics were similar to the previous 3D Zeldas. It just felt like a different game, and I think that was the point. I _don't_ think the point of WW was "all Zelda games from now on are going to look like this, and there's no going back." It just doesn't seem like something Miyamoto, Aonuma, et. al. would have settled upon, knowing what kind of creative guys they are. And I think people who see this "return" to a more realistic graphics style as selling out are really selling Nintendo short.

Hopefully in the future we'll see the evolution of many different graphical styles, not just "realistic 3D" vs. "cartoony cell-shading." That would be the ideal outcome for me.

Re:I have high expectations... (1)

Chemical (49694) | more than 9 years ago | (#12319363)

My biggest single complaint with Wind Waker is the whole traveling by ship thing. It took forever to get from one place to another. And if you wanted a map, you had to build it piece by piece by hunting down that stupid fish in all 47 sectors. Building a complete map took hours and hours.

Wind Waker was great. The dungeons were great. The music was great. The gameplay was great. The graphics were phenominal. But traveling was so time consuming that I got really frustrated with the game.

Re:I have high expectations... (4, Interesting)

Elranzer (851411) | more than 9 years ago | (#12316762)

If Nintendo is making Link the older one because they were listening to their fans, then I'm sure they'll put other fan-requested features in it as well. I'm sure they heard the world cry out with its lack of dungeons, and double when The Minish Cap had a lack of dungeons too. A wearwolf transformation idea sounds something like what a fan would suggest.

Afterall, the idea of masks transforming Link in Majora's Mask was a large, fan-requested and petitioned request, and it became the staple feature of that game.

Re:I have high expectations... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12319400)

I dunno. More dungeons isn't always better. Majora's Mask only had four main dungeons, but I liked it better than OoT mainly because it introduced many cool gameplay elements (I thought the whole Groundhog Day concept was clever). It was longer than OoT too, despite having half as many dungeons.

On a side note, if you wanna see something really cool, check out this video [speeddemosarchive.com] of a Majora's Mask playthru without going back in time once.

The new Link looks good (5, Interesting)

kniLnamiJ-neB (754894) | more than 9 years ago | (#12314760)

We've always had the cartoony Link... now there's a Link that looks like he belongs in a deep adventure/roleplaying game. It's a good look for him.

Personally, I think it would be cool to see them create a "bonus" world where you could play through the ORIGINAL game with the new graphics and stuff... kinda like an Easter Egg.

Re:The new Link looks good (1)

nathanmace (839928) | more than 9 years ago | (#12315417)

But wouldn't creating the orginal game with the new graphics require a LOT of work? A game like this isn't created in a drag & drop "Game Builder" type application. Seems like a lot of work for a mere Easter Egg or Bonus Level.

Re:The new Link looks good (1)

Lehk228 (705449) | more than 9 years ago | (#12320796)

actually I have played around with game builders that were more than capable of building something comparable to Z1 and Z2 (Z2 was my favorite of all time)

Re:The new Link looks good (1)

nathanmace (839928) | more than 9 years ago | (#12321968)

True, but I was talking about rebuilding the orginal game with the new graphics.

Re:The new Link looks good (1)

tommertron (640180) | more than 9 years ago | (#12315809)

Personally, I think it would be cool to see them create a "bonus" world where you could play through the ORIGINAL game with the new graphics and stuff... kinda like an Easter Egg.

That's a GREAT idea. Also leads me to wonder why isn't this done more often? Sure, we get the old games, but give me a port of the old game with the old graphics. I was hoping beyond hope that Doom III would provide the same thing, but it seems like there's no luck. Anyone have any examples of modern sequels redoing levels from their predecessors with the new engines?

Re:The new Link looks good (2, Interesting)

Servo5678 (468237) | more than 9 years ago | (#12316203)

Sonic Adventure 2 recreated the classic Green Hill Zone from Sonic the Hedgehog in 3D.

Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door sends Bowser through renditions of levels from the original Super Mario Bros.

Super Mario All-Stars is an obvious answer, kind of.

Mario Kart Super Circuit includes the tracks from Super Mario Kart.

F-Zero X includes Super Mario Kart's Rainbow Road track.

Super Mario RPG includes a Donkey Kong-inspired challenge.

Re:The new Link looks good (1)

Elranzer (851411) | more than 9 years ago | (#12316810)

Don't forget Metroid: Zero Mission

Re:The new Link looks good (1)

FLAGGR (800770) | more than 9 years ago | (#12316227)

The reason it doesn't happen is because it's alot of work. You have to redo EVERY piece of artwork. Plus, most games try and use (with the exception of that Barbie Horserider game thing possibly) the whole disk. Therefore if windwaker used a whole disk, and redone graphics would make it use a disk and a half (because of the lack of textures needed in its cel shaded world), then how is it going to fit on one disk with the new Zelda GCN?

Re:The new Link looks good (2, Informative)

Elranzer (851411) | more than 9 years ago | (#12316854)

Most Gamecube games do not fill the whole disk. Even the Wind Waker's ROM is actually less than 100MB big (it's not too much bigger than Ocarina of Time which was only 32MB). What Nintendo does is fill the disk with zero/garbage data to fill each disk to capacity. This makes pirating a Gamecube ROM a pain in the ass and nearly impossible, and its worked pretty well I'd think.

Re:The new Link looks good (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12317618)

Wind Waker uses mostly flat polygons, i.e. no textures, so of course its smaller. Filling the rest of the disk with zero's/garbage doesn't make pirating any harder.

Re:The new Link looks good (1)

ricotest (807136) | more than 9 years ago | (#12336002)

Exactly. The current GC releases either just rip the whole disc or strip out the zeros (which are very easy to remove). Not sure about the garbage though.

Re:The new Link looks good (1)

FroBugg (24957) | more than 9 years ago | (#12320228)

I've heard (and it may be completely BS) that the drive in the Gamecube actually spins backwards relative to normal DVDs. This is supposedly what makes it hard to pirate for.

Re:The new Link looks good (1)

shakey_deal (602291) | more than 9 years ago | (#12320696)

Utter BS!

Re:The new Link looks good (1)

G-funk (22712) | more than 9 years ago | (#12328205)

No, the drive spins the same direction but it reads from the outside in, as opposed to the inside out.

Re:The new Link looks good (1)

vslashg (209560) | more than 9 years ago | (#12316442)

Anyone have any examples of modern sequels redoing levels from their predecessors with the new engines?

More a curiosity than anything else, but Sands of Time has the original Prince of Persia levels in it, using the new game's 3D engine. http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/ps2/code/589718.ht ml [gamefaqs.com]

I agree, but... (3, Interesting)

sc0ttyb (833038) | more than 9 years ago | (#12316573)

We haven't always had a cartoony Link.

In Zelda II, Link was 15 and had the Triforce on his left hand (the first occurance of this "branding"). That was the first adult-like Link there was. Then Ocarina of Time had Link at around the same age.

I was personally rather disappointed when Wind Waker was first shown. However, I grew to love the game while I played it, because no Zelda yet has let me down in terms of fun (let's not count the stuff on the CD-i).

I'm a fan of this more adult look. I always wanted the Zelda series to take a more serious/adult turn. Link just screams "badass" to me, even in tights. :) Though I'd like to see him use a broader range of sword attacks instead of the standard horizontal swipe and chargey-circlular-swipey thing. However, I guess it kind of works, since Link doesn't really know he's special until it's time for him to be the Hero.

Re:I agree, but... (2, Interesting)

Rallion (711805) | more than 9 years ago | (#12316707)

Though I'd like to see him use a broader range of sword attacks instead of the standard horizontal swipe and chargey-circlular-swipey thing.

Well, he DOES. Since OoT, he does. There's that leap attack that does double damage, and the stab, which, if I recall, was by far the best tool to use to defeat certain enemies in at least Wind Waker. Then, Wind Waker introduces the hurricane spin, which is a lot of fun, and, if you want to count them (I do) there's the counter-attack moves.

I don't even want more complexity than that, really. That's complex enough to be fun, but simple enough for you to hold it all in your head and remember it when the time comes.

Re:I agree, but... (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12316971)

Not to mention the great variety of combos you can do in Wind Waker simply by tilting the stick in different directions as you attack. I had great fun exploring those while I tried to land a thousand hits on Orca. I suppose that's a good thing, too, considering how boring that would have been with just the moves from OoT. Anyway, the fighting in Wind Waker was the most fun I've had fighting in a Zelda game since dueling Ironknuckles in Adventure of Link. I hope Link is still that acrobatic in this new game, although I also hope it's toned down a bit for the more realistic presentation.

Re:I agree, but... (2, Funny)

iridium_ionizer (790600) | more than 9 years ago | (#12319040)

I can't wait until the next, next Zelda comes out for the Revolution. Maybe they will have an even more adult Link, like 80 something. Of course he'd still be awesome and kicking butt (ala Frank Miller's Dark Knight Returns).

They would have to give him walkers for weapons, or Viagra for health potions though. They'd just make him older and wiser, and instead of having to prove himself to older people, he'd just have to kick the snott out of young wippersnappers that thought he was over the hill. Over the course of the game he would keep getting more and more permanent injuries. Think dentures, magical hip replacement, etc. Some levels would even randomize locations ever once and a while to simulate senility. And then, once the death blow to Gannon was delivered, he would die of a heart attack. Thus leaving Zelda a substantial life-insurance policy to cash in.

That would definitely bring a whole new demographic to Nintendo!

Re:I agree, but... (1)

IntergalacticWalrus (720648) | more than 9 years ago | (#12324216)

I wish I hadn't ran out of mod points minutes ago. That is damn funny.

Re:The new Link looks good (1)

MilenCent (219397) | more than 9 years ago | (#12318631)

Or vice versa? Play the new game with the old look? After all, the new Zelda plays on a modified Wind Waker engine. Would probably be almost feasible, in fact.

Re:The new Link looks good (2, Insightful)

iridium_ionizer (790600) | more than 9 years ago | (#12318633)

Translating the original Zelda to the new graphics wouldn't be that hard if they made just one 3D model for each tile (e.g. bush, brown bush, rock, pier, etc.). Imagine all of those rectangular rooms of exactly the same dimensions rendered in glorious 3D.

My only worry is that they would purge all of the religious references from the original Zelda. Burning bush, prophet in a cave, stone cut out of a mountain without hands, mystical pipe, being given a new heart, baptism by fairy sprinkling, etc. That would be like Castlevania without crosses. Or a Unabomberman game without bombs.

The Good and the Bad (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12315739)

Good:
2 or 3 times bigger than Ocarina! I think I spent 70 hours just in the Water Temple, so this is great.

Cuccos are back! Choppy choppy choppy.

Bad:
Jumping is still automatic. Anyone else wish Link had the jumping freedom Mario had on the N64?

Z-Targetting, while great on the N64, the Cube's Z-button makes this a pain. (Why did they move it from the logical trigger location to the front edge of the shoulder? Maybe the name 'Z-targetting' is just a hold over, and it's actually assigned to The Big Green Button That Does Everything.)

Re:The Good and the Bad (4, Informative)

frikazoyd (845667) | more than 9 years ago | (#12315931)

Huh? Did you actually play the Wind Waker? It isn't Z-Targeting anymore. You still target with the button that is (relatively) in the same place. Namely, the L button. It is the one that is where your left index finger would be, just like the Z trigger was on the N64 controller.

Also, the Z button is actually a "C" button now. You assign swappable items to it, like the bow, bombs, etc.

Also also, you should know that the Wind Waker is considerably larger than the Ocarina of Time. Though there aren't nearly as many dungeons in the Wind Waker, they are all of very high quality. (Which I would contend, the OOT later levels weren't. The Shadow level and the level where you get the lens of truth felt last minute, and I hate to say it, but so did the Desert level).

Re:The Good and the Bad (1)

Fred Or Alive (738779) | more than 9 years ago | (#12316701)

Personally I found the Wind Waker's dungeons to be far easier though. I didn't have much trouble with Ocarina, but the puzzles in Wind Waker just didn't see as good. I hope some more complex puzzles will make their return with the new game...

Re:The Good and the Bad (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12326340)

Wow, a -1/100% Overrated mod, I'm impressed by how personally people took it.

Did you actually read the article(s), or my reply? Nowhere was it said WW had Z-targetting, so kudos for you for noting "it isn't Z-targetting anymore" as if that were some sort of rebuttal. My point, since you so obviously missed it, is that moving said targetting scheme back to the Z button is BAD, regardless of how it was done in WW and OoT, because the CURRENT Z button is in a BAD position for that purpose.

Yes, I did play WW and you should know it was considerably smaller than OoT, and the dungeons, while fun, weren't as tough. A giant (empty) ocean doesn't make the game larger. I had a lot of fun playing WW, but it should have been a much bigger game.

Re:The Good and the Bad (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12316388)

Jumping in Ocarina of Time wasn't totally automatic. You could use Z-targeting to backflip, jump to either side, and jump attack forward. That was enough to get to a few places you shouldn't have. For instance, you can get onto the roof in Kakariko and talk to the guy who gives you a piece of heart without a hookshot -- or the Master Sword, for that matter -- by climbing the watchtower at night (when no one's there) and side-jumping to the left.

I take it from your Z-targeting comment that you don't know much about Wind Waker. Aside from changing to "L-targeting," that game fixed what was most annoying about auto-jumping from ledges by making it harder to do on accident. (Actually, they switched to L-targeting with the rereleases of OoT and Majora's Mask, but that's beside the point).

Honestly, it wouldn't make much sense for Link to jump much. He really shouldn't be able to jump very high at all with all the equipment he lugs around (speaking of which, does it amuse anyone else that the iron boots weigh less in his pack than they do on his feet?). Let's face it, a button that just makes him hop a few inches off the ground wouldn't be any use. If they did make him jump higher, then we'd have a Zelda game full of Mario-style jumping puzzles. Nuts to that.

Re:The Good and the Bad (3, Interesting)

fwitness (195565) | more than 9 years ago | (#12320225)

"..does it amuse anyone else that the iron boots weigh less in his pack than they do on his feet?)"

Not anymore than the fact that I can carry a bazillion items in said pack and still move swiftly along. I wish more games had a little more 'realism' that way. Not Zelda, it's not that type of game. But other games would benefit if more things were limited. These days, everything, including lives, are essentially unlimited. Games lose something this way. That 'fear' you had of dying, back in the day.

In most new games, I find myself never using the 'cool' stuff till I know I'm near the end of the game. I just have this mindset that everything is scarce, but it isn't. :(

Re:The Good and the Bad (1)

Zangief (461457) | more than 9 years ago | (#12323375)

I believe that the two most important improvements in WW over OoT, were the augmented range of Z-targeting, and the ability to manipulate the camera freely.

After WW, OoT feels a little unwieldly. You have to do strange things to position the camera as you wish.

Re:The Good and the Bad (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12326436)

What a strange one you are. You begin your reply by noting that Link could in fact jump in certain ways and it provided for unexpected exploration, irrelevant to the point that the automatic jumping will still be automatic, but whatever, and end it by saying it would be bad if you could do those same sort of jumps (the only jumps of Mario's Link is missing are the triple and wall-kick) because, of all reasons, his backpack is too heavy. Haven't you noticed that rupees are the size of his head, yet he can carry hundreds of them around with ease? Obviously Hyrulian laws of physics aren't our own.

So you don't want jumping puzzles, that's fine, but as it is we have Zelda games full of shove-the-blocks and hit-the-targets and light-the-torches puzzles. Eventually that becomes mechanical. Eventually as in replaying LttP for the third time. That said I'm still a big Zelda fan, but it's not for the minor variations on puzzles, it's for the worlds to be explored and giant bosses to take on.

I take it from your reply to my Z-targeting comment that you don't know much about reading comprehension. They're apparently moving it FROM where WW has to BACK TO THE Z-BUTTON. As I said in my original post, that's BAD, because the Z is in an awkward place for that.

Lord, save us from the 14 year olds with computers.

Re:The Good and the Bad (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12336143)

Well, I'm sorry my reply got your shorts in a bunch. My first comments on jumping were simply to point out that most people's complaints about the auto-jumping were, in my opinion, overblown. I did not say that it would be bad if you could do those same sorts of jumps in the new game. I meant to point out that Mario-style jumping is incongruous with Zelda gameplay. My comment on the iron boots was an aside. It wasn't really part of the point I was making, and as I said, I find it amusing, not troublesome. If Nintendo weren't going for a more realistic style in this Zelda, they could simply include a Roc's Feather item again and let Link climb the walls for all I care. I just think that won't work as well in this game's style as it would in Wind Waker.

I agree with your point about repetitive puzzles. Block pushing, target shooting, and torch lighting are staples of the series, though. It really wouldn't be Zelda anymore if they didn't keep some of those, but I'd certainly like to see some new ones, too.

I take it from your reply to my reply that... You know, it's just easier if I call you stupid. From TFA: "Jumping will be automatic, for example, and gamers will once again use "Z targeting" to lock on enemies. Only now, of course, the GameCube controller's L trigger replaces the N64's Z trigger." (emphasis mine)

Lord, save us from the 14 year olds with computers.

I totally agree.

Re:The Good and the Bad (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12431233)

pwn3d

All ye Xbox & PS fanboys bow down to the trifo (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12316134)

Games like this are why Nintendo will never die. Show me a game on the XBox or Ps2 that has the depth, skill, challenge, adventure, roleplaying, beauty, story telling etc etc of any Zelda game. You will not find any... you know why? Because Nintendo cares about making quality games.. they don't have to sell like a zillion copies... but they just keep on making quality games coz thats just what they do.
Viva le Big N... Long Live the Big N!

Re:All ye Xbox & PS fanboys bow down to the tr (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12316346)

Kingdom Hearts (PS2)
Jade Empire (X-Box)

Oh, sorry, you said "as good as Zelda", not "miles better than Zelda"

Re:All ye Xbox & PS fanboys bow down to the tr (0, Offtopic)

RogueyWon (735973) | more than 9 years ago | (#12316417)

Agreed completely. I can't speak for the older Zelda games, but Wind Walker only rates as an "ok" to me. Maybe 6/10 territory. Kingdom Hearts probably counts as "great, but flawed" (control system could have used some work, Disney plot elements made me puke), probably 8.5/10 territory. I'm still only 6 hours into Jade Empire and so far I've not seen a single thing about it I don't like and I've seen lots that I just love.

As for the "as good as, but not better than Zelda" title, I'd possibly go for something like FFX-2 on the PS2 (or maybe Ominusha 3), or KOTOR2 on the X-Box (just not as good as the first one).

Re:All ye Xbox & PS fanboys bow down to the tr (1, Troll)

SetupWeasel (54062) | more than 9 years ago | (#12316741)

Saying FFX-2 is as good as the Wind Waker shows exactly how much your gaming opinion is worth.

Re:All ye Xbox & PS fanboys bow down to the tr (1)

RogueyWon (735973) | more than 9 years ago | (#12317429)

And why would this be?

What exactly is all the fuss over Wind Walker about? I'm not going to make the usual cheap shots at it. I have no problems with the visual style, I don't howl in torment for the lack of a jump key and I'll even put up with the lack of voicing. However, I've played it through from start to finish and I still fail to see what makes in any any way better than the average action/platformer.

Basically, you go around from town to town. In each town, you talk to a few NPCs, do a few fed-ex quests and maybe play a minigame. You then play through a dungeon which is a mixture of combat and puzzles. Most of the puzzles are, in reality, jump puzzles, although there's no actual jump key. You fight the boss at the end of the dungeon, then you rinse and repeat. Eventually, you win the game. I fail to see what's so staggeringly innovative about this. The combat gets old *real* fast, the utilities such as the grappling hook are fun for 5 minutes, then get tired and the whole "Wind Walker" thing that the game's named after is generally pretty gimmicky.

Kingdom Hearts was by no means a perfect game, but at least the whole skills/magic system added a depth to the combat (and in a few of the battles, a real twitch-skill requirement) that puts it far ahead of Zelda in terms of depth.

Final Fantasy X-2 is in some ways a disappointing installment in the series, but... again... it has a fun combat system (once you work out how to not-die after 30 seconds in every fight). It also creates a fairly convincing and fleshed-out game-world, which is something Zelda singularly failed to do for me.

Of course, this being slashdot, I don't actually expect a sensible reply to this, but if somebody wants to enlighten me as to what exactly is so fantastic about the game that I was persuaded to shell out £100 for my Gamecube on (and which these days only ever gets use for Resident Evil 4 and the occasional blast of Mario Kart when I have friends over), I'd be most grateful.

Re:All ye Xbox & PS fanboys bow down to the tr (1)

SetupWeasel (54062) | more than 9 years ago | (#12318530)

To start, I doubt you played the game from start to finish. It is the Wind WAKER not "Walker."

Basically, you go around from town to town. In each town, you talk to a few NPCs, do a few fed-ex quests and maybe play a minigame. You then play through a dungeon which is a mixture of combat and puzzles. Most of the puzzles are, in reality, jump puzzles, although there's no actual jump key. You fight the boss at the end of the dungeon, then you rinse and repeat. Eventually, you win the game.

In partial response to this I will use your own words: "I don't howl in torment for the lack of a jump key." Abandoned that one real quick.

What you describe is typical of many games of the genre, but that's like describing War and Peace as "a book about war and Russian nobles." While true, it is an oversimplification. Most games, like most stories, follow a formula that has been used before, but what separates a great work from a mediocre or bad work is execution.

Every action, every ability, every movement is fluid and flawless. You are never hampered by controls or the camera. The Wind Waker achieves a level of polish that is rarely seen even in supposed "AAA" games.

When you fly, you feel like you are flying. When you sail, you feel like you are sailing. One of the best things about the Wind Waker is the sense of freedom.

I could go on, but I don't need to.

When using the word "gimmick" in an argument about video games it most often means "something new that I don't like." Most of Square's RPGs are straight cookie-cutter affairs with some new tweak of the battle scheme that could be called "gimmicks" as well.

I haven't played Kingdom Hearts so I won't comment on it, but the only traditional RPG I've ever finished had the best combat system I've ever seen. That was Grandia for the PS1. All others are redundant and very boring. Grandia was extremely refreshing, because I didn't loathe battles, and I didn't have to spend too much time in inventory and skills screens.

Re:All ye Xbox & PS fanboys bow down to the tr (2, Informative)

RogueyWon (735973) | more than 9 years ago | (#12321265)

Ok, nice rabid response here which doesn't actually address any of the points I made in a coherent manner.

Sorry about the typo. It was pretty late when I typed this. If you don't believe I played the game, feel free to ask me any question about the content that anybody's who did a reasonable playthrough (but didn't get obsessive over subquests) should know the answer to.

You completely misunderstand my points about the jumping thing. I say I don't have a problem with the lack of a jump button. I then say that most of the puzzles are jump puzzles, even though there isn't a jump button. I'm not attacking the control system here; like I say, I have no problem with having the game decide when to jump for me. I just don't like jump puzzles.

I still fail to see anything about the execution of Zelda that sets it apart in any way. The combat system is shallow and doesn't really require either tactics or twitch-skill. Hell, I'm no great gamer, but I completed the game without any real difficulties, other than a couple of annoying jump sections. The game-world isn't as well fleshed out as it is in other games and I never felt immersed in it, or even intruiged by it at any point. Plus, you spend an annoyingly large amount of time travelling around the map on that tedious boat. It doesn't feel like you're sailing... it feels like you're playing an annoying minigame with an indifferent control system which is allowed to go on far too long. Sure, you can wander around the map if you want to, but you still basically have to go from A to B to C to complete the game. No real sense of freedom there; it's the same as KOTOR, Final Fantasy X-2 and many other games.

Incidentally, Grandia 2's combat system is virtually identical to FFX-2's. Not saying it's good or bad, just pointing it out.

Re:All ye Xbox & PS fanboys bow down to the tr (1)

Strell (877448) | more than 9 years ago | (#12323670)

First off I have to wonder why FF-X2 would enter into an argument with Zelda, considering one is pretty princess dress up maker and the other is a 3D adventure game.

Absurdities aside, you're comparing a menu-based RPG versus a 3D adventure game. I don't know if that has escaped you or not but you might as well compare Zelda to Madden.

I swear I have no idea where this "jump puzzles" idea comes from. The only jump puzzle area I can even think of was in the tree and using those plants to propel you higher and higher up.

After that, the rest of the dungeons functioned with far more emphasis on puzzle solving, and not just block pushing or key finding, which populates so many other games. I confess it has been a long while since I played the game but all I could remember at the time was "This is far more engaging than Ocarina was," because the dungeons felt so fresh. The Earth Temple, especially, had this absolutely amazing old school flavor to it - dark, mysterious, menacing, a real sense of solitude that the original Zeldas pioneered. I remember having to use companions, activate triggers/switches in obscure locations, reflecting light, etc. All the things, you know, that every other game immediately utilizes? That Nintendo through up first? We're all getting sick of the "light the torch" idea too but guess where it came from?

I can't speak for FF-X2 or KOTOR because on the former I don't care to play another Square rpg in my life, as they've become abyssmal shells of their former glory back on the SNES. KOTOR I wanted to play, but I'm still having a problem with the fact that you are comparing two separate genres of games and trying to say the second one doesn't compare to the first, when they both accomplish different things. True, KOTOR does have the whole allignment thing, which is pretty nice, but even that gets downgraded because everyone either goes all bad or all good. There's not a damn player in the world that acts like "Oh man, I want to be soooo like, 90% good and 10% evil."

As for the sailing thing, it was tedious at times, which is why they GAVE YOU A WARP FUNCTION. And don't say that's evidence of a flawed system, it's evidence of the fact that ANY game, in general, where there are several hubs of activity function on that. I can't think of any off hand, but I know more than one game has the option to just bring up a map and select a city and be there instantly, eliminating all the travel.

As for Kingdom Hearts's so called depth in battle system, my response to that is the same one I use for every Square game - did you honestly use more than a set few commands? In every Square game they give you 50-60 skills/spells, and you end up using maybe 4-5 of them repeatedly. Some might come into play at certain times, and others are fun to use maybe initially, but you realize that more than half of the time they don't work, so you go back to your brute force attacks. For example, any FF game? Just keep using blizzard until you get it's successor. Why waste time with stop/confuse/poison/stone/warp/death/slow/blind, and all the other endless has-been-in-roughly-every-rpg-ever-made-spell when you could just do some massive summon, or throw meteors at them? Even with techniques, who the hell uses anything outside of steal and maybe some form of a heal spell, like...group hug or whatever the hell it is Square games incorporate now?

So don't talk to me about this supposed "depth" when it's really not there. If you give me 100 skills and I only use 4-5, then you haven't accomplished anything. The only game I can even think of off hand that might utilize something even remotely close to that amount of customization would be Pokemon, and even then you can brute force your way through it, or just rely on using a few specialized cross breeds (e.g. a leaf/dark type, etc).

In essence you keep talking about all these features in other games and calling them candy, then saying they aren't found in Zelda, which hurts Zelda's credibility. But the fact is that those "features" are so completley overblown and ancillary that they are UNDERUSED BY EVERYONE because it would be terribly annoying TO use them. Who in the hell would walk around any FF game and think "golly I want to use all 498 spells Square gave me," and waste countless HOURS wading through menus to select that specific spell? Or the fact that a summon might shave a whole minute off your life, when you'd like to cast if 3 times per battle? And even on top of that, the summon is so ungodly powerful that it ruins the game and cheapens any sense of challenge at all?

You call Zelda cheap and shallow because it doesn't have these things? I think it's nice that Nintendo doesn't weigh the game down with dozens of useless skills and spells that would get no usage anyway. You'll notice in every Zelda game that the tools you get might be few, but they are ALWAYS designed with purpose in mind and ALWAYS have puzzles tailored specfically to their use. Zelda, with its 12-15 spells/items/techniques, shows far more premise and ingenuity than other games with 10X that, but only 2 percent of them manage to be useless. You get a hook shot in Zelda because 1) certain enemies can only be killed with it, 2) puzzles require it, 3) it can be used to access new areas, and 4) it can be an effective standard weapon all its own. Compare that to other games where you have 6 versions of a fire spell, and you only use the most powerful version anyway, and you probably spent several hours on a stupid sidequest to get it to begin with. And even then it makes no impact on the gameplay or game structure itself, it just makes the game easier for you and lets you kill enemies more quickly.

The word for Zelda is balance. The word for other games that try to imitate it is bloated. The next time I see someone comparing Zelda to an RPG and chiding it's lack of inventory, I think I'm going to weep for the fact that the gaming community fails to see even the differences in genres.

You might as well compare it to Parappa the Rappa and say "GOD THE MUSIC IN ZELDA SUCKS TOO, WHY DID NO ONE EVER SAY THAT BEFORE?????"

Re:All ye Xbox & PS fanboys bow down to the tr (1)

Pluvius (734915) | more than 9 years ago | (#12318235)

You're absolutely right. FFX-2 is not as good as Wind Waker, it's better.

Rob

Re:All ye Xbox & PS fanboys bow down to the tr (1)

Zangief (461457) | more than 9 years ago | (#12319256)

Yeah, it's better. As a freesbee.

As a game, WW is leagues ahead of FFX-2.

Kingdom Hearts was TERRIBLE (2, Insightful)

Strell (877448) | more than 9 years ago | (#12318898)

I have NO IDEA why people love this game so much. Calling Wind Waker nothing more than fetch quests and fedex missions, but then mentioning KH? You HAVE to be kidding.

EVERY damn level in KH was the same. Get to area A. Find character B. Talk to character B. Character B moves to new location. You have to fucking find him AGAIN. Then he tells you to meet his friend C, so, omg, is under attack by...demonic monkeys and fat balloon clowns. Sonuvabitch it was boring. By the time I got to Tarzanland and had to go from the forest to the treehouse to the cliff outskirts BACK to the treehouse BACK to the campsite and BACK to the cliff outskirts and BACK TO THE DAMN TREEHOUSE, I'd had it. The entire game functioned on this principle of finding some character, having some dialogue, and then finding them again down the road.

The animation, the settings, the graphics, even the music. It was all top notch. And the battle system itself was fun, if a bit random in terms of an attack working or not.

But GOD was the actual "game" itself nothing more than a lot of random encounters all leading up to a boss, and then moving on to a new area and doing it all over again. The NPCs were terrible at pointing you at exactly where you needed to go, so most of the time you just wondered around aimlessly until you found another door or some character to talk to or some enemy to fight.

I respect the game and I hope to get KH2 when it comes out, but not if I find out it's little more than an upgraded Secret of Mana, minus a lot of the things that made SoM great. I had better find out the gameplay is more engaging than some weak puzzles and a lot of hide and seek.

In fact, that's pretty much how any Squaresoft game has been lately - a weak attempt to live up to past greats, but by doing so by stripping away vital elements and upping the graphics to try and make up for it.

Re:Kingdom Hearts was TERRIBLE (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12319585)

You know what I hated most about Kingdom Hearts? It was the fucking Little Mermaid area. I swear to God if I have to hear that Under the Sea melody ever again I'm going to fucking kill someone.

But yeah, all your other points were accurate as well. KH was a mediocre game at best.

Re:All ye Xbox & PS fanboys bow down to the tr (5, Insightful)

Elranzer (851411) | more than 9 years ago | (#12316950)

Jade Empire being better than Wind Waker maybe, but Kingdom Hearts is miles behind even Zelda 2. The real-time battle system of both Jade Empire and Kingdom Hearts still do not compare to any Zelda. All mentioned games are still not as majestic as Ocarina of Time though.

By the way, never compare anything Square Enix to anything Nintendo. Square Enix is the equivalent to Dell in the video game world. They've got their blindly loyal fanboys, but everyone else knows they make crap (even though their old stuff use to be good).

Re:All ye Xbox & PS fanboys bow down to the tr (0)

RogueyWon (735973) | more than 9 years ago | (#12317509)

Sorry, think you made a typo there. Where you meant to write "Nintendo", you wrote "Square Enix" and vice versa.

I know Square Enix get a lot of flak from the slash-horde for milking their franchise, but to be honest, they're nothing like as bad about this as Nintendo are. At least each new Final Fantasy game actually adds a serious new twist to the series, usually completely reinventing the combat and character systems from the previous installment. Nintendo games these days are looking more and more like carbon-copies of games that were released a decade or more ago. Hell, if you look at Mario 64 DS, it basically *is* a carbon copy. In value for money terms, the £100 I spent on my Gamecube is possibly the worst value-for-money I've ever had, second only to the annual extortion of the BBC license fee. I'm still waiting for the system to get more than 3 or 4 games which are actually worth playing for longer than an hour or two (Resident Evil 4, Perfect Dark, Rogue Leader and *possibly* Mario Kart 64 are the only ones I've found so far).

Re:All ye Xbox & PS fanboys bow down to the tr (1)

RogueyWon (735973) | more than 9 years ago | (#12317559)

Doh, typo

Rather than "Perfect Dark", I clearly meant "Eternal Darkness". My bad.

Re:All ye Xbox & PS fanboys bow down to the tr (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12318458)

Ah, smell the Square-Anus, the fanboy who just loves getting that Square-Penix rammed up his ass.

At least each new Final Fantasy game actually adds a serious new twist to the series, usually completely reinventing the combat and character systems from the previous installment.

Um, no. Not at all. You're just - wrong. You get the same spells, same abilities, same items, and same equipment each and every game. That character's names change, but the story is basically always the same. (Small group of teenagers out to fight ancient evil that wants to destroy the world. Not cliche at all.)

Hell, if you look at Mario 64 DS,

Just like Final Fantasy Dawn of Souls? Or Final Fantasy Origins? Or Final Fantasy Anthology? Or - whatever that other rereleased Final Fantasy was called (Chronicals?).

You've named four games you want to play for the GameCube. Now, here's a challenge: name four Square-Enix games you'd want to play released since January 2004. I'd love to see you come up with anything. I sure as hell can't.

Re:All ye Xbox & PS fanboys bow down to the tr (1)

RogueyWon (735973) | more than 9 years ago | (#12321300)

Well, except that the system went from semi-turn-based ATB in FFIX to fully turn-based in FFX, then to a near-real-time system in FFX-2 and is apparently going fully-real-time in FFXII. Also, ability names do indeed often stay the same, but their effects and the game balance are usually changed beyond recognition. The limit break system came in, went through several iterations and then left again, having changed beyond recognition.

Then there's the changes to the character system. There's very little consistency to the series moves here; in FF2, FF7 and FF8, we've had generic characters who the player could build up in any way he wanted. In FF1, FF9 and a few of the others, we've had characters put into very specific classes. Then we've had a few which fall in between, such as FFX and FFX-2.

Right, I'm not going to confine myself to the January 2004 limit, because of the 4 Gamecube games I mentioned, 3 of them were released before this point. I should know, I bought my Gamecube in November 2003 and got 3 of them within a month and that's here in the UK, where Nintendo always stiff us for releases. However, from mid-2003 (probably a fairer estimation), we've had Final Fantasy XI (in the territories accessible to me), Final Fantasy X-2 and Kingdom Hearts: Chain of Memories. I know that's only three, but hell, of the 4 Gamecube games I've mentioned, only 1 was an actual Nintendo title. If you want me to name 4 good games in that period, or indeed since the start of *2005* on the PS2 or X-Box, I'll be happy to. It'll be keeping the list down to 4 that I'll find hard.

The Mario DS vs FF: Origins etc argument is kind of valid, but at least the Final Fantasy handheld remakes weren't allegedly wonderful platform-launching titles.

See, thing is, you call me an SE fanboy, but this just puzzles me. Read my other posts in this thread. I point to games by Bioware, Lucasarts and others as *good* games. I don't necessarily put SE above these (well, I'd put them above Lucasarts these days), they're just another good developer. You, on the other hand, seem to have a serious difficulty with the idea that Nintendo games might be compared to *any* other developer. I think we can see who the real rabid, moronic fanboy here is.

Re:All ye Xbox & PS fanboys bow down to the tr (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12323374)

You said Kingdom Hearts was better than Zelda. There's no way you aren't a Square-Anus for that flub.

Kingdom Hearts does make a better coaster than Wind Waker, because it's larger. And it works better as a frisbee for the same reasons. But as a video game?

You, on the other hand, seem to have a serious difficulty with the idea that Nintendo games might be compared to *any* other developer.

Um, no. Show how. I did say that Square-Enix doesn't come anywhere near to comparing with Nintendo (and haven't since they started making games for Sony - Crystal Chronicals sucked ass, and the GBA remakes were some of their weakest games). But that doesn't mean other companies can't be better than Nintendo.

Just because your little pet company, Square-Enix, doesn't make any good games any more doesn't mean that anyone who says another company does make good games is suddenly biased for that company.

Re:All ye Xbox & PS fanboys bow down to the tr (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12323403)

I think we can see who the real rabid, moronic fanboy here is.

You wrote all that to explain this? I got that conclusion from the start when he said "Square Penix"

Re:All ye Xbox & PS fanboys bow down to the tr (1)

Elranzer (851411) | more than 9 years ago | (#12334598)

"The Mario DS vs FF: Origins etc argument is kind of valid, but at least the Final Fantasy handheld remakes weren't allegedly wonderful platform-launching titles."

Wonderswan Color, anyone?

By the way: No, I didn't make a typo. I fully meant what I said about Square Enix. And double what I said about its fans. You just proved that point.

Re:All ye Xbox & PS fanboys bow down to the tr (1)

Zangief (461457) | more than 9 years ago | (#12319341)

Yeah, because Wario Ware and Pikmin and Metroid Prime and Donkey Kong Jungle Beat and Superstar Saga and Zelda Four Swords and a lot of other things, are totally rehashes of old stuff.

Look at what Square Enix has produced this gen.

*2 Single player Final Fantasies for PS2. One is the explotation sequel of the other.
*1 MMORPG that, while successful, is a ripoff of everquest. In fact, I doubt it could have any success at all if it wasn't named Final Fantasy.
*1 Dragon Quest game. Nothing new here.
*lots of rehashes. Anthologies, Chronicles, etc. Ports of old games, whatever.
*Front Mission games (nothing new).
*Unlimited Saga. Another sequel.

That would be it. Nintendo inovates a lot. Idiots cannot see it, because they mostly use well known IP, so they sell better, by simple brand recongnition.

Most fanboys, when asked about some innovative game, will say "Katamary Damacy". Yeah, it's innovative, but, can they name something else?

Re:All ye Xbox & PS fanboys bow down to the tr (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12319880)

*1 MMORPG that, while successful, is a ripoff of everquest. In fact, I doubt it could have any success at all if it wasn't named Final Fantasy.
A poor ripoff. Tons less fun, no endgame content, and several really brain-dead design.

You meant "successful in Japan" - it's not a success anywhere else.

And it's only successful in Japan because they play more console games than PC games.

Re:All ye Xbox & PS fanboys bow down to the tr (1)

RogueyWon (735973) | more than 9 years ago | (#12321313)

Wrong.

I play FFXI. I'd say that, at a rough guess, the play-base is probably splut 40/40/20 between the US, Japan and Europe.

Re:All ye Xbox & PS fanboys bow down to the tr (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12337269)

Let me guess. You came to this conclusion based on the number of people you see online when you're playing it. Well, EU or NA, you're still not playing in JP peak time.

So, no. The game had about 300,000 people playing before the US release. It went up to 550,000 with the EU release and presumably deflated a lot with the release of WoW. At best, it was 60/40 JP/Everyone Else.

If it ever was popular in the US, it isn't now. Hell, read any article about FFXI on this site. There are practically no comments on it because no one cares, and the comments that are made are almost always either offtopic or talking about how terrible the game was anyway.

It got a 6.8 from Gamespot. Not exactly a great success, regardless.

Re:All ye Xbox & PS fanboys bow down to the tr (1)

RogueyWon (735973) | more than 9 years ago | (#12321336)

All of the games you mention aside from Metroid basically fall into the "fun for an hour then tedious" category. Zelda Four Swords particularly grated because it had the "multiple GBAs and link cables compulsory for multiplayer" scam. If this had been optional, it would have been cool. As a compulsory mechanism, it's basically exploitation. Not everybody owns or wants a GBA. Oh, and if you traded in your GBA for a DS? So sorry...

Metroid Prime was slightly more interesting, but even this is basically just an exploration/combat fps with a poor control system. I mean, I appreciate the attempt at open-endedness, but all it translated to in practice was "wander around for ages until you find the next obscure switch or item to let you progress".

With the Square Enix games, I'll admit that the last year has been dry for them (as it has for Nintendo). However, remember that Square Enix sequels are usually a long way from being just plain old sequels. For example, FFX-2 completely reinvents the game's combat mechanics. Aside from location and character names, there's basically nothing carried over from FFX.

Most real fanboy idiots, when asked about some innovative game, will say "" and then fail to explain to any kind of intelligent audience exactly what is so innovative about rehashing 10 year old concepts.

Re:All ye Xbox & PS fanboys bow down to the tr (1)

rhuntley12 (621658) | more than 9 years ago | (#12321641)

Zelda Four Swords basically a gimmick to screw you into buying a GBA imo. Jungle Beat, not really my cup of tea, kinda along the lines of DDR without the excercise. Metroid Prime - I don't get it, I played both and disliked both of them. Poor controls, dull gameplay, how is it innovative? The only FPS on gamecube? Dunno about Wario Ware or Pikmin, haven't played either.

Have you seen the Eyetoy? That is atleast as innovative as jungle beat if not more. Is Revolutions going to be innovative because they added internet support? I doubt you'll find much innovation on any console that hasn't been done or atleast similar before. Also innovation doesn't mean good.

Not defending SquareSoft, I really don't care for their stuff after FF6. Well excluding Kingdom Hearts. I just hate when people always spout Nintendo innovation makes them king.

To naysayers on Zelda: Four Swords (1)

Strell (877448) | more than 9 years ago | (#12323847)

Stop with the bullshit argument "scam to buy a GBA." It's ludicrious for several reasons. 1. Nintendo was banking on the fact that the GBA has and incredibly large user base installed in the world. They were trying to tap that by bringing them into the console arena. The fact is that if person A bought it, they probably knew more than several people who had a GBA. There was no "scam" to be made here - it was simple rule of averages at play. This is one of the most retarded comments I've ever seen in my whole life because people KNOW its a weak and stupid argument. 2. Let's assume it WAS a scam. Can you think of a better one to be a part of? The GBA has a huge base of games and tons of AAA titles. It's not like you're getting tricked into an ass raping. It's like "OMFG, You mean I have to buy a system that has a ton of awesome games on it, excellent battery life, and multiplayer capabilities? God Nintendo, you suck ASS." It's so utterly retarded that people didn't even give the goddamn game a chance. 3. IF, and I'm speaking to every idiot saying this, you'd even PLAYED the game, you'd realize it was vital to the gameplay experience. Absolutely VITAL. And it was a hugely innovative form of gameplay. Same with FF:CC. But you're too busy crying like a baby about idiotic things like "omG ITS SKAMZ!!!!!!!!111" that you didn't even for once try the game. 4. Penny Arcade said it best. http://www.penny-arcade.com/view.php3?date=2003-08 -25&res=l 5. Shut up now, useless argument. "Zelda doesn't have a jump button!" BECAUSE ITS NOT A PLATFORM GAME EITHER YOU SHITS.

Re:All ye Xbox & PS fanboys bow down to the tr (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12319562)

MGS: The Twin Snakes

It's the soul reason that I bought a Gamecube, even if it is a remake. What can I say, I'm an MGS fanboy :)

Re:All ye Xbox & PS fanboys bow down to the tr (1)

sloose (864787) | more than 9 years ago | (#12318348)

You lost me at "miles behind Zelda 2". If you say there is nothing majestic about Kingdom Hearts, then I know you haven't played it through until the end. The inclusion of Disney characters makes the game just so much more charming. Probably Squarenix's best game this generation.

Re:All ye Xbox & PS fanboys bow down to the tr (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12318422)

Or you have, realized that while the cutscenes looked "pretty", the gameplay sucked, was disjoint in many places (look, I'm doing a pointless fucking shooter to get to the next world-planet-thingy with the new DUPLO-ship I put together - yes, I really wanna play these worthless minigames just to continue playing).

The combat was poor, your partners were lousy, and the "magic" system was just terrible. The voice acting was sub-par, the in-game graphics were meh, and all together... it was a lousy game.

Zelda 2 was more fun than Kingdom Hearts - you got more spells, and the damned camera didn't continously show you pretty pictures of the wall.

(Plus the graphics were better. We're talking about the NES game, right?)

Re:All ye Xbox & PS fanboys bow down to the tr (1)

RogueyWon (735973) | more than 9 years ago | (#12321307)

Actually, the game was by no means the prettiest of this generation. Wind Waker looked better. However, Kingdom Hearts *did* have a better combat system. If you really played into it and got past the first few worlds (where things could be a bit button-mashy), you really started to notice how the combat needed both twitch reactions and tactics.

Voicing was erratic, I admit, particularly on the Final Fantasy characters (although casting Angel as Squall was a great idea). However, the Disney voicing was very, very well done.

Re:All ye Xbox & PS fanboys bow down to the tr (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12322898)

If you really played into it and got past the first few worlds (where things could be a bit button-mashy), you really started to notice how the combat needed both twitch reactions and tactics.

Yeah, I did notice that in Zelda 2 - wait, which game are you talking about? All I did in Kingdom Hearts was pound the "lame-key-sword" button and whack at anything near me. Worked fine through the entire game.

Re:All ye Xbox & PS fanboys bow down to the tr (1)

bVork (772426) | more than 9 years ago | (#12319186)

I agree with you about Square Enix.

However, you missed a game that managed to out-Zelda, well, Zelda. Beyond Good and Evil. Amazing graphics, an excellent plot, companions that could actually fight and do useful things, and tons of minigames made the game a lot more enjoyable than Wind Waker.

Re:All ye Xbox & PS fanboys bow down to the tr (2, Insightful)

Chemical (49694) | more than 9 years ago | (#12319702)

I agree. Beyond Good and Evil is probably the most underrated game this generation. It deserved far more exposure and recognition than it received. Like you said, an excellent story with characters you actually care about, top notch visuals, lenghty and well designed dungeons, and some unique gameplay elements. I paticuarly enjoyed how they worked the stealth gameplay in there. It's sad that the game probably wont ever spawn a sequel. BGAE was easliy one of the best games I've ever played and I encourage everyone to go pick it up (it was released for every platform including PC, so you should be okay no matter what your gaming prefrence is). I'm not sure if it "out-Zeldas Zelda", but it is excellent in its own right.

Re:All ye Xbox & PS fanboys bow down to the tr (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12344086)

The main thing wrong with Beyond Good and Evil is that perhaps it could have been a little longer. When that's the biggest criticism you have of a game, you know that it must be pretty good...

From the same magazine, (1)

incom (570967) | more than 9 years ago | (#12318065)

it appears as though the upcomming Zelda DS game will be a four swords type game, and ONLINE!

Speaking of zelda, from a game design standpoint. (5, Interesting)

They_Call_Me_Spanky (83478) | more than 9 years ago | (#12318417)

I wish more game developers, especially PC game developers, would take a good hard look at Zelda monsters from the 1st game to the latest, and notice that each of them are radically different from one another in terms of logic and kill strategy. In fact, check out the boss monsters and you will notice the player is required to devise unique strategy for each of them in order to win.

Most (almost all) PC RPGs use a cookie-cutter approach to populating the game with critters. (Diablo, Dungeon Seige, etc. etc.)
The Zelda designers have been extremely successful at selling thier games because they stay true to the core design features.

- Each monster is unique in term of kill strategy and movement etc.
- The gameworld is provides the player with lots of rewards for exploration.
- Give the player plenty to do while minimizing the repetition.

What!!! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12324564)

When did 'emerge more details on zelda' let portage dig up osme information about zelda!
Why is there no mention of this on various gentoo sites???

Zelda emerge ?? (1)

IntergalacticWalrus (720648) | more than 9 years ago | (#12328611)

You mean like

# emerge zelda

Cool!

MMORPG? (1)

Anonymous Custard (587661) | more than 9 years ago | (#12329252)

When are we going to get a Zelda-based MMORPG?
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