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New IE7 Information Announced

Zonk posted more than 9 years ago | from the the-web-has-standards? dept.

Internet Explorer 620

Brandon writes "Looks like the IE team is trying to catch up to some of the major OS browsers. They have finally added proper PNG support and have fixed numerous CSS bugs. The full post is on The Official IEBlog." From the post: "We're doing a lot more than this in IE7, of course, and we're really excited that the beta release is almost here - we're looking forward to the feedback when we release the first beta of IE7 this summer. Stay tuned for more details as we get closer to beta."

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The ones that I hope get fixed (4, Interesting)

DeadSea (69598) | more than 9 years ago | (#12325505)


My pet peeves with IE that make my life harder when I write web pages:

Sounds like they are fixing the .pngs for sure. I hope the two css tweaks that I want make it in.

nuts to -moz-border-radius (5, Informative)

rebug (520669) | more than 9 years ago | (#12325525)

Instead of implementing a vendor-specific tag, why not support the proposed CSS3 border-radius property? [w3.org]

Re:nuts to -moz-border-radius (4, Insightful)

DeadSea (69598) | more than 9 years ago | (#12325577)


I believe that mozilla did implement the proposed standard but put it in their own namespace for now because it isn't a standard yet and they didn't want to be accused of "embrace and extend" the way that Microsoft does.

Re:nuts to -moz-border-radius (4, Informative)

rebug (520669) | more than 9 years ago | (#12325607)

They support CSS3 selectors [w3.org] , which are still candidate recommendations.

I think it's that their support for the border module is terribly incomplete, so they're not going to suggest that they support any of it quite yet.

min-width and hacks (5, Informative)

UnConeD (576155) | more than 9 years ago | (#12325573)

Internet explorer actually treats width and height as min-width and min-height. Very annoying if you don't want it, but you can use it like this:

select {
min-height: 100px;
_height: 100px;
}

IE will (mysteriously) ignore the underscore prefix and parse the second style, while compliant browsers only recognize the min-height style.

This shows that the important question is in fact not "how many CSS bugs will IE7 fix?" but "how many CSS bugs will IE7 keep?". These bugs are currently needed to make IE6 behave properly. If IE7 fixes the rendering bugs but keeps the parsing bugs, we'll have to figure out new bugs to update the IE6-only hacks with.

Re:min-width and hacks (1)

DeadSea (69598) | more than 9 years ago | (#12325610)


Know of any tricks for max-width?

Min-width is pretty easy to work around like you say. It can also be done with a 60x1 transparent gif to make something at least 60 pixels wide.

I haven't found a way to make internet explorer render something no more than 60 pixels wide.

Re:min-width and hacks (1, Funny)

smitty_one_each (243267) | more than 9 years ago | (#12325676)

tricks for max-width
Tri(cks|x) are for kids!

Re:min-width and hacks (5, Insightful)

falconwolf (725481) | more than 9 years ago | (#12325744)

If IE7 fixes the rendering bugs but keeps the parsing bugs, we'll have to figure out new bugs to update the IE6-only hacks with.

That's why web standards should be followed, so you don't end up with spagetti code trying to support different browser versions. Admittedly I don't know everything that goes into creating a standards compliant website. Nor do I work on them other than my own, which I haven't worked in way too long.

Along the lines of web standards, I liked Jeffery Zeldman's "designing with web standards". I would of liked it if there had been projects to work on in it though. I only learn and retain by doing, if I don't do it I don't retain what I read. At least he includes references to other books some of which have exercises or projects.

Falcon

I want Cross-platform support. (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12325602)

I have important customers (government agencies and academic customers) on Linux and Solaris; and we really can only afford to focus on supporting a single browser.

That essentially forces my hand at picking FireFox.

If IE were supported on Linux and Solaris, I might be able to consider it; and then it'd make the windows users happier.

Re:The ones that I hope get fixed (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12325650)

Excellent plug. It's not like we need the examples because those are the first things which come to the minds of all webdesigners when you ask them about IE shortcomings. But you saw the opportunity and used it. Congratulations.

Re:The ones that I hope get fixed (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12325798)

Thank you for advertising with slashdot, Stephen. We look forward to working with you on future endeavors.

So long, Firefox (0, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12325506)

Thanks for playing.

You lose.

Re:So long, Firefox (1, Offtopic)

HerbertLipschitz (656857) | more than 9 years ago | (#12325559)

In this case, I take it "Anonymous Coward" is a corollary to "Microsoft PR Rep"?

Wow Alpha Transparency (3, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12325509)

Welcome to the twenty-first century Microsoft. I guess someone will have to update this [wikipedia.org] page. Will IE7 have a central repository for extentions/plugins?

Too late I.E... (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Cumshot (859434) | more than 9 years ago | (#12325511)

You fail it.

Good. (2, Insightful)

Maskirovka (255712) | more than 9 years ago | (#12325512)

Real competition. Good.

Re:Good. (4, Insightful)

CSMastermind (847625) | more than 9 years ago | (#12325586)

The concept of real competition entering the market is really an illusion. It's not a competition when 89% of the world uses your browser. What microsoft is doing right now is taking steps to make sure it doesn't become a competition. For people to switch, they'll need a good reason, a major thing that IE can't do. Right now there isn't one. There are little things that annoy the computer geeks and tech nerds but nothing your typical 60 year old grandmother or 16 school girl will care about. I applaud them for taking a step in the right direction, but lets not forget that they're still the big dog in the software market. They won the first browser war and they're ready for another.

Re:Good. (1)

xtracto (837672) | more than 9 years ago | (#12325721)

Quote
For people to switch, they'll need a good reason, a major thing that IE can't do. /quote

But, that will not be enough, also, there needs to be a web page that a lot of people use (Hallmark?, MSN? or any other) which has this "feature", but, any of those sites will implement a feature that does not work with the browser 89% of the people uses so, it is a vicious cycle.

Re:Good. (1)

Nashville Guy (585073) | more than 9 years ago | (#12325732)

Good points, but to me it looks like compliance with standards is becoming an issue at Redmond. If you think about it, it almost sounds like Microsoft is trying to play by the rules instead of trying to establish them.

If they are ready for another browser war, I hope it is on an even playing field and not an MS-IETF type of rule set. Given a level playing field, Firefox, Opera, et al stand a good chance of winning.

Vive la Chance!

Re:Good. (1)

ShyGuy91284 (701108) | more than 9 years ago | (#12325776)

For 60 year old grandmother? Tie MSN into it and have MSN display pics of her grandkids as her homepage, and for 16 year old girls, just display the current hot pop guy. Then MSN will have them for sure....

Re:Good. (4, Insightful)

hunterx11 (778171) | more than 9 years ago | (#12325781)

What microsoft is doing right now is taking steps to make sure it doesn't become a competition.

I'm pretty sure that improving a product to maintain one's marketshare, even if it is the vast majority, is in fact competition already. There's no reason that Microsoft can't make IE7 good. During the browser wars I used Explorer instead of Netscape because I really did like it better. Certainly they have the hackers and the resources to make the best browser if they want to. If Microsoft really does release a product better than Firefox, it will be sad to see the underdog lose, but really the consumers will win.

Re:Good. (1)

NanoGator (522640) | more than 9 years ago | (#12325802)

"They won the first browser war and they're ready for another."

Good, I'd like to have a better browser.

middle-click for tabbed browsing (5, Interesting)

SpecialAgentXXX (623692) | more than 9 years ago | (#12325515)

The only reason I use Firefox and not IE is due to middle-clicking for tabbed browsing. Once MS adds that into IE, I'm going back. All of my video plug-ins work instantly with IE, but not without some tweaking for Firefox. I already switched from Thunderbird to Outlook 2003, so I'm excited to see what bells & whistles MS can put in IE7.

Re:middle-click for tabbed browsing (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12325545)

Wow, you're so smart. I know, the only reason to use firefox is tabbed browsing. I mean, its not like its more secure or anything...
</sarcasm>

Re:middle-click for tabbed browsing (5, Insightful)

NetNifty (796376) | more than 9 years ago | (#12325575)

It wasn't the tabbed browsing, or extensions like adblock, or better standards compliance that I switched to Firefox. It was getting infected by a piece of spyware that used the same security hole I was pissing about with THREE MONTHS BEFOREHAND that I saw it on a security bullitin, and despite being fully up to date on my patches it still infected me.

Re:middle-click for tabbed browsing (5, Informative)

tepples (727027) | more than 9 years ago | (#12325557)

Then I probably shouldn't tell you about Maxthon [maxthon.com] or any of the other IE wrappers that add tabs and retain all the ActiveX holes.

video plugins (4, Insightful)

green pizza (159161) | more than 9 years ago | (#12325578)

All of my mozilla plugins required some fiddling to get them working. But you know what? I did the tweaking once, about 10 months ago, and it's still working fine.

Re:middle-click for tabbed browsing (3, Funny)

HerbertLipschitz (656857) | more than 9 years ago | (#12325588)

All my porn, er, video plug-ins work fine in Firefox.

Re:middle-click for tabbed browsing (1)

jseale (691367) | more than 9 years ago | (#12325637)

Direct tab access (via Ctrl-numbered key) would also be a nice touch.

Re:middle-click for tabbed browsing (2)

Rs_Conqueror (838344) | more than 9 years ago | (#12325731)

Although the ease of browsing was also my main reason for swiching over to FF, you cannot disscount the hundreds of browser extensions that FF has going for it. I currently have my browser so over customised that if I were to even TRY to swich back, I just wouldn't be able to navigate.

Mmmm! Competition! (4, Insightful)

Bonker (243350) | more than 9 years ago | (#12325527)

This is why MS's brand of 'innovation' is bad and real competition is good. Remember when they halted development on IE6 because all the other browsers were 'finally dead'? Now that Firefox is pissing in their hard-won territory, they're actively hunting again. This isn't just good for Microsoft, but it's good for Firefox and good for us too.

Re:Mmmm! Competition! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12325638)

Agreed.
I personally don't give a crap's pants about either of those browsers. As long as there is competition (which now it is) developers will struggle to innovate and to write better software. Competition is _ALWAYS_ good for the end user. And most of us are end users. I like(ed) Firefox, I really do. But if that IE turns out to be better (for me) I'm jumping ships without a second thought. And if Firefox becomes better than IE later, I'm jumping ships again.

They are both free browsers as much as I'm concerned. So there's nothing to lose for me. I would really love if Opera would also gain some user share, because more competition will again be better for all of us. The only thing I'm pissed about IE is their way of complying (spelling?) to standars. As much as I can't stop laughing at W3C for trying to be a "de jure" standard, in the end it is myself getting screwed with either noncompliant sites or with browsers not advancing as much as they could.

In the end I am looking forward to IE7 and I hope they make a great browser. I am also looking forward to what Mozilla has to counter it (FF 2?).

Re:Mmmm! Competition! (4, Insightful)

drooling-dog (189103) | more than 9 years ago | (#12325686)

This isn't just good for Microsoft, but it's good for Firefox and good for us too.

It doesn't really address the trust issue, however, even though some of the more abusive "features" of IE may be toned down due to competition and heightened user awareness. Microsoft still largely sees its end-user base as property that it owns, and to which it can sell access for commercial or marketing purposes. Firefox, on the other hand, being FOSS, is naturally more user-centric. IE users can thank Firefox for making the Beast a little kinder and gentler, at least for the time being...

too little.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12325528)

too late

yawn. too little, too late (3, Funny)

stirlingneg (832272) | more than 9 years ago | (#12325529)

are people still using that old browser?

only 90% of the population (2, Insightful)

rebug (520669) | more than 9 years ago | (#12325562)

I guess it's kind of a niche product, eh?

Re:only 90% of the population (1, Insightful)

Nogami_Saeko (466595) | more than 9 years ago | (#12325590)

Nothing MS can do to IE will make me change from Firefox at this point.

Firefox development would have to completely cease before I'd consider switching, and even then I'd investigate alternatives before going back to IE.

MS messed up, and they're gonna burn for it.

N.

Re:only 90% of the population (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12325733)

I switched to FF a while back. I recently switched back (to Maxthon anyway). Firefox isn't any more secure, and it's about 10X slower. I can open Maxthon, have it open 10 tabs and complete loading in the time it takes FF to open and load google on two tabs. I could "possibly" live with that if it used less memory but FF is a memory hog as well.

IMO those 20 billion open source developers need to start concentrating on performance, and stop concentrating on useless extensions.

well that's just super (1)

rebug (520669) | more than 9 years ago | (#12325734)

You know, rah rah rah, go team! and stuff. Your cheerleading has nothing to do with my point.

Let's be more concerned about what MoFo can do to make people change from IE and less concerned with celebrating a victory that has yet to happen.

Too little...too late (2, Interesting)

Foofoobar (318279) | more than 9 years ago | (#12325541)

Fixing those bugs will not show customers that their product is good. People now have the name Microsoft associated with insecurity. It took them only 8 years to update their browser and since then people have been screaming for support, better features, etc.

No... Microsoft burned quite a few bridges with alot of people and unless they can turn that PR machine around 180 degrees, people will continue to see them as bullies who are looking out for nobody but themselves.

Even if IE7 turns out to be the best product ever created by mortal man, people will immediately assume it sux (minus MS zealots of course).

They need to reinvent themselves in the eyes of the consumer, the business and world.

Re:Too little...too late (5, Insightful)

Husgaard (858362) | more than 9 years ago | (#12325620)

Microsoft burned quite a few bridges with alot of people and unless they can turn that PR machine around 180 degrees, people will continue to see them as bullies who are looking out for nobody but themselves.
I think you overestimate the general population of browser users. Most of those who have not switched have nothing else to compare MSIE with, and thus think that MSIE is the best browser that ever existed. And even among those who got burned there is the general problem of short memory (ie. most will forget if they see something acceptable from MS).

And Microsofts PR machine has a history of successfully turning around 180 degress. Just thinks of the events that lead to the first browser war.

Re:Too little...too late (1)

Foofoobar (318279) | more than 9 years ago | (#12325723)

Very true in all regards. But the PR machine has to turn around ALL of Microsoft; the misgivings and bad karma associated with the browser is also associated with the company and ALL it's products. People who have been burned by the browser have more than likely also been burned by their tech support, their OS or another product.

So in the consumer or the businesses mind, the browser IS Microsoft, Microsoft IS the browser (and all things computer related).

Though they have turned their ship around before, it has never been this much of a behemoth and in so troubled waters.

Re:Too little...too late (1)

Psiren (6145) | more than 9 years ago | (#12325627)

Even if IE7 turns out to be the best product ever created by mortal man, people will immediately assume it sux (minus MS zealots of course).

Bullpats. People will use IE7 regardless. Especially when it makes its way into Windows Update.

They need to reinvent themselves in the eyes of the consumer, the business and world.

I wouldn't entirely disagree with that, but people will still use Mircosoft, because at the end of the day, it works for most people. Those that know enough to admin their machines correctly have few problems. Those that don't, call people that do, or carry on regardless. It's a sorry state of affairs, but it's the way it is.

Remember winsock? (5, Interesting)

xtal (49134) | more than 9 years ago | (#12325632)


No... Microsoft burned quite a few bridges with alot of people and unless they can turn that PR machine around 180 degrees, people will continue to see them as bullies who are looking out for nobody but themselves.


They got caught with their pants down in 1993-4 with the internet and TCPIP revolution, too. "It's good enough" certainly does sound framiliar. This was a multibillion dollar company that somehow MISSED THE WHOLE INTERNET THING. They pulled that one off and came out of it smelling like roses.

They got caught with their pants down AGAIN in 1997 with the widespread acceptance of Java and the beginnings of true cross-platform computing. They pulled turning that event into a stillbirth and came out of it smelling like roses.

So, here we are in 2005, and they've been caught again with a stagnant product in IE. Not just caught, but being actively made to look stupid by comparison by the third party browsers, and on top of all this, they have OSX and Apple breathing down their necks. I think the wake-up call has been heard.

I'm not a betting man, but I know where I'd be putting my dollars.

Re:Remember winsock? (1)

Foofoobar (318279) | more than 9 years ago | (#12325811)

Keep in perspective the size of Microsoft's 'ship' that they have to turn around, the plethora of troubles that it has with it's products and add consumer/business discontent with open source and alternative software making HUGE instrides into their business.

They have a lawsuit, a competitor and an open source project at every door. And the company who stands to lose the most is MS.

They have themselves spread too thin, they have no focus (or their focus is on too much at once) and they have not followed through on consumer demands, industry standards or interoperability.

They have won in the past because they were able to spread money to a few key people. But this time, a few key people cannot keep them out of hot water. Consumers are pissed at them, businesses are pissed at them, governments are pissed at them and they are all beginning to work together and against them.

What can they do to stop this? Seriously.

I say they should start making their server side apps compatible with other systems, start getting out of server side and focus on desktop. It will be a long time before Linux takes over the desktop and if they put their focus back into the desktop, they will be able to cut their losses.

Re:Too little...too late (1)

khellendros1984 (792761) | more than 9 years ago | (#12325656)

To fix IE, Microsoft must first fix Windows. Most (all?) of the holes in the browser are carried over through holes in the OS, and its the unrestricted access to OS functions that allow the OS holes to be exploited through explorer. Also, most people don't know about Microsoft's rep for insecurity (I'm talking about Joe User here), they don't understand the depth of the problem, or they don't care. My father is getting extremely upset with "those spyware bastards", yet I can't get him to leave Explorer. He just won't. My mom's comp (using Firefox): It's kept clean without me fooling with it over once per month. My fathers (IE only, even though NS is installed): Let's just say there's a reason for his discontent. Frankly, if they cleaned up their act, I'd go back to Windows as my primary OS. It's just easier for general use. But as it is...I couldn't make a logic-based decision to go back. I'd rather deal with incompatibility than insecurity.

Re:Too little...too late (1)

rpozz (249652) | more than 9 years ago | (#12325701)

To fix IE, Microsoft must first fix Windows. Most (all?) of the holes in the browser are carried over through holes in the OS, and its the unrestricted access to OS functions that allow the OS holes to be exploited through explorer.

Yes. This is the problem with IE. Most people don't notice its lack of standards. What they do notice however, is when they get flooded with popup ads, and 'extras' get added to IE as soon as they connect to the Internet. If people knew exactly what spyware was doing (keyloggers, reporting browsing habits, etc), I'm sure most would go apeshit.

The very idea of directly attaching something like a web browser to an OS is fucking insane. If anything, it should be put in a jail of some description. That is why I'll continue to recommend Firefox to anyone running Windows.

Re:Too little...too late (2, Insightful)

symbolic (11752) | more than 9 years ago | (#12325700)

You're talking about enlightened consumers. I'm sorry to say that bsed on my own observations, it seems they're a small minority.

Re:Too little...too late (1)

Foofoobar (318279) | more than 9 years ago | (#12325741)

Not true. I'm talking consumers... period. Most consumers do not realize that their hardware can run anything other than Microsoft or that their is even an option other than Microsoft. These are consumers who have been burned not only by the browser but by the OS, Office or any other number of products made by Microsoft.

As a result, all fingers of blaim can only point in one direction as far as Joe Average is concerned and that's straight at Microsoft. They can pretty much blame everything on Microsoft due to Microsoft's attemopt to dominate all software on the desktop.

This is why it will be harder to turn this ship around from a PR perspective.

Re:Too little...too late (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12325742)

I'm enlightened about the massive memory bloat and leaks in Firefox. If IE7 is about the same speed/size as IE6, but with FF's features, it will be appealing to me.

Web development optimization? (3, Insightful)

cloudkj (685320) | more than 9 years ago | (#12325548)

Now that IE7 seems to be (hopefully) on track to abiding by the CSS standards, will it mean less work for web developers in trying to optimize their sites for different browsers? Atleast for me, it's always been annoying checking how a site is rendered in multiple browsers, and trying to ensure compatibility. Hopefully this will ease some of the pain.

Suggest they un-integrate IE (4, Insightful)

havaloc (50551) | more than 9 years ago | (#12325550)

The biggest problem with IE in my eyes, if that your install of IE goes bad, you have to reinstall the whole operating system, as opposed to Firefox, where you can uninstall, remove the Firefox directory and start over.

Re:Suggest they un-integrate IE (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12325660)

No, you don't have to reinstall the whole OS. IE is not integrated into the kernel, as much as these Slashdot zealots try to convince you. Maybe they should read, I don't know, a blog or two from IE developers maybe (just a suggestion).

Re:Suggest they un-integrate IE (1, Interesting)

Night Goat (18437) | more than 9 years ago | (#12325766)

OK, how do you reinstall it then?

Re:Suggest they un-integrate IE (1)

cortana (588495) | more than 9 years ago | (#12325687)

It sounds like you need a new hard disk. I'd be worried if files on a disk of mine randomly corrupted themselves!

Re:Suggest they un-integrate IE (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12325695)

If IE is so integrated into Windows that it cannot be removed (as MS says), then how does IE also run on the Mac?

Re:Suggest they un-integrate IE (1)

blargosity (878234) | more than 9 years ago | (#12325722)

Don't forget the profile folder. Back in the pre-1.0 versions of Firefox, some people had some weird issues caused by something in their Firefox profile that the uninstalling and reinstalling of Firefox did not fix for them. But, if they moved their profile folder from its normal location or deleted the profile folder entirely and then restarted Firefox, they didn't have the problems anymore.

Competition is a good thing (5, Insightful)

CyberZCat (821635) | more than 9 years ago | (#12325552)

Without software like Firefox, their would be no reason for Microsoft to ever make a better product, just look at how long IE's been in version 6! Now that Microsoft's starting to feel their browser dominance threatened they're playing for attention to their own product. Clearly competition benefits the end-user.

debate site (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12325554)

about open source vs proprietary apps, like IE vs Firefox, here [opensourceversus.com] .

shall (3, Interesting)

Turn-X Alphonse (789240) | more than 9 years ago | (#12325555)

So shall weall complain active X is still included when they ask for feed back? We could slashdot them with "feedback".

Re:shall (4, Funny)

fallendove (875598) | more than 9 years ago | (#12325760)

I encypted a popup into my feedback (I'm a tester), but then they probably have Active X disabled.

competition? (4, Insightful)

boring, tired (865401) | more than 9 years ago | (#12325565)

I find it hard to believe that many people will switch back to IE from FireFox (or others) after IE7 comes out. It'll probably get picked up by current IE6 users or corporate IT depts. But it would take some pretty spectacular changes to get me to switch.

I look forward to IE7. (3, Funny)

Construct X (582731) | more than 9 years ago | (#12325567)

"Supporting exciting new standards in which life improving spyware bring you more features than ever before!" *sulks* I tried.

Too many features to match. (4, Insightful)

Max_Abernethy (750192) | more than 9 years ago | (#12325585)

Even if IE implements everything that the basic Firefox installation has and then some, they still won't have the strong community of extension developers that Mozilla does. Will the next IE have anything like AdBlock [mozdev.org] , the web developer toolbar [chrispederick.com] , or any of the countless little tweak extensions I like? Will I be able to easily change detailed settings like I can with about:config? I doubt it.

Re:Too many features to match. (2, Insightful)

Tyrdium (670229) | more than 9 years ago | (#12325710)

Will the average user care about those features, though? I doubt it. As long as MSIE is "good enough"...

Thank you, Microsoft (2, Funny)

wyldeone (785673) | more than 9 years ago | (#12325593)

They have finally added proper PNG support

I am so happy to hear this. In this IE6 world a webdesigner cannot use transparent pngs, because roughly 90% of your viewership's browser would not render them correctly. One was then forced to either use transparent gifs (which only support 2 level of transparency, i.e., on or off) or else try to fake it (which is difficult because IE and Gecko don't always render colors the same.) Hopefully they'll finally implement some more CSS2, like allowing the hover pseudo class to be used with any object, rather than just links. Oh, and perhaps they could finally fix the box model.

God, what's the point? (0, Troll)

skomes (868255) | more than 9 years ago | (#12325594)

We have NOW seen what MS will do once it believes it web browsers, it will do nothing. It will ignore our requests for improvements, it will stop developing, it will ignore it's users. Since it started doing that, what have we seen? Improvements! Of course, not from MS that decided to ignore us, and ignore it's feature request tools. Now that MS has realized that people aren't going to stand for it, they are trying to come back, my only hope is that people don't flock to IE7, because we've already seen what they will do if we go back to them! Boycott IE7 until MS makes a serious promise to it's user base not to let this kind of thing happen again. In the meantime, sit back and practice mouse gestures with Opera...oh damnit, right click up, down! not down, up, now I just closed that window...oh well.

help me out. (-1, Offtopic)

whatboards (878451) | more than 9 years ago | (#12325599)

http://www.whatboards.com sign up. :) help me out

Re:help me out. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12325709)

GET.FUCKED.ASSHAT

Re:help me out. (1)

tnsimonson (731364) | more than 9 years ago | (#12325796)

Is there a BugMeNot login for that?

200 MB .exe (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12325606)

And its part of the OS of course, so you will need to install the .NET framework, service pack, and then run either XP or longhorn. If they really wanted to be dicks it will take product activation too.

Repainting the Deckchairs on the Security Titanic? (4, Insightful)

rewinn (647614) | more than 9 years ago | (#12325608)

Not trying to flame M$ but ... most of the reason I junked IE was security issues. Once I made the jump, the other improvements like graphics-handling were nice, but not critical.

Would putting better graphics on the Titanic's deckchairs have kept anyone on board?

Re:Repainting the Deckchairs on the Security Titan (1)

Jugalator (259273) | more than 9 years ago | (#12325775)

This comment is probably worth nothing on Slashdot, but they have earlier announced IE 7 will have further security improvements since the initiative they started with it in Windows XP SP2. You may already know this, you may not, but please don't assume just because a few more details were announced, none else had been.

Read the following out loud: (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12325611)

There is no one master race. Only african-americans can use the n-word. Jews did not do wtc. Gays can't help it. White men could jump if they felt like it. Mexicans are good people. Many indians do their part to support the system. Muslims are not wife-beaters. Oriental is a type of food. There is no one master race. Only african-americans can use the n-word. Jews did not do wtc. Gays can't help it. White men could jump if they felt like it. Mexicans are good people. Many indians do their part to support the system. Muslims are not wife-beaters. Oriental is a type of food. There is no one master race. Only african-americans can use the n-word. Jews did not do wtc. Gays can't help it. White men could jump if they felt like it. Mexicans are good people. Many indians do their part to support the system. Muslims are not wife-beaters. Oriental is a type of food. There is no one master race. Only african-americans can use the n-word. Jews did not do wtc. Gays can't help it. White men could jump if they felt like it. Mexicans are good people. Many indians do their part to support the system. Muslims are not wife-beaters. Oriental is a type of food. There is no one master race. Only african-americans can use the n-word. Jews did not do wtc. Gays can't help it. White men could jump if they felt like it. Mexicans are good people. Many indians do their part to support the system. Muslims are not wife-beaters. Oriental is a type of food. There is no one master race. Only african-americans can use the n-word. Jews did not do wtc. Gays can't help it. White men could jump if they felt like it. Mexicans are good people. Many indians do their part to support the system. Muslims are not wife-beaters. Oriental is a type of food. There is no one master race. Only african-americans can use the n-word. Jews did not do wtc. Gays can't help it. White men could jump if they felt like it. Mexicans are good people. Many indians do their part to support the system. Muslims are not wife-beaters. Oriental is a type of food. There is no one master race. Only african-americans can use the n-word. Jews did not do wtc. Gays can't help it. White men could jump if they felt like it. Mexicans are good people. Many indians do their part to support the system. Muslims are not wife-beaters. Oriental is a type of food. There is no one master race. Only african-americans can use the n-word. Jews did not do wtc. Gays can't help it. White men could jump if they felt like it. Mexicans are good people. Many indians do their part to support the system. Muslims are not wife-beaters. Oriental is a type of food. There is no one master race. Only african-americans can use the n-word. Jews did not do wtc. Gays can't help it. White men could jump if they felt like it. Mexicans are good people. Many indians do their part to support the system. Muslims are not wife-beaters. Oriental is a type of food. There is no one master race. Only african-americans can use the n-word. Jews did not do wtc. Gays can't help it. White men could jump if they felt like it. Mexicans are good people. Many indians do their part to support the system. Muslims are not wife-beaters. Oriental is a type of food. There is no one master race. Only african-americans can use the n-word. Jews did not do wtc. Gays can't help it. White men could jump if they felt like it. Mexicans are good people. Many indians do their part to support the system. Muslims are not wife-beaters. Oriental is a type of food. There is no one master race. Only african-americans can use the n-word. Jews did not do wtc. Gays can't help it. White men could jump if they felt like it. Mexicans are good people. Many indians do their part to support the system. Muslims are not wife-beaters. Oriental is a type of food. There is no one master race. Only african-americans can use the n-word. Jews did not do wtc. Gays can't help it. White men could jump if they felt like it. Mexicans are good people. Many indians do their part to support the system. Muslims are not wife-beaters. Oriental is a type of food. There is no one master race. Only african-americans can use the n-word. Jews did not do wtc. Gays can't help it. White men could jump if they felt like it. Mexicans are good people. Many indians do their part to support the system. Muslims are not wife-beaters. Oriental is a type of food. There is no one master race. Only african-americans can use the n-word. Jews did not do wtc. Gays can't help it. White men could jump if they felt like it. Mexicans are good people. Many indians do their part to support the system. Muslims are not wife-beaters. Oriental is a type of food. There is no one master race. Only african-americans can use the n-word. Jews did not do wtc. Gays can't help it. White men could jump if they felt like it. Mexicans are good people. Many indians do their part to support the system. Muslims are not wife-beaters. Oriental is a type of food. There is no one master race. Only african-americans can use the n-word. Jews did not do wtc. Gays can't help it. White men could jump if they felt like it. Mexicans are good people. Many indians do their part to support the system. Muslims are not wife-beaters. Oriental is a type of food.

IE7 would be perfect if... (4, Interesting)

green pizza (159161) | more than 9 years ago | (#12325615)

IIRC, the *original* release of IE was based heavily on Mosaic. This always struck me as kind of funny, since even Netscape 0.9 was faster and had more features than any version of Mosaic 2.x.

At any rate, Microsoft should put their resources into making one killer browser. Make it as lightweight as Netscape 2.0 was, yet support the latest CSS kung-fu. Implement all of the latest widgets and hoohaws as plugins so I can remove ActiveX support if I want. And above all, make it cross platform. Use a library like FLTK so it can be used just about anywhere.

Doesn't Microsoft realize they could easily make the end-all browser that'll end up running on almost every palmtop, cell phone, set-top-box, automobile, and personal computer?

Re:IE7 would be perfect if... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12325640)

You're shooting for a funny mod, right?

Of course they realize that if they made a superior browser people would use it; but they simply don't have the resources to keep up with Firefox now that Google and IBM are sponsoring/hiring many of the key Firefox developers.

Fix HTTP! Admins will thank thee! (0, Redundant)

LuckyStarr (12445) | more than 9 years ago | (#12325617)

Microsoft! Please fix your HTTP implementation [comcast.net] . The current one is really gruesome!

Gecko's needs fixing too, you know (2, Interesting)

rebug (520669) | more than 9 years ago | (#12325706)

Gecko polls servers for changed content when moving through history. As far as I know, Opera is the only major browser that gets that part of HTTP/1.1 right.

History mechanisms and caches are different. In particular history mechanisms SHOULD NOT try to show a semantically transparent view of the current state of a resource. Rather, a history mechanism is meant to show exactly what the user saw at the time when the resource was retrieved.
http/1.1 specification [w3.org]

so what? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12325618)

I daresay they'll find a way to make it unuseable, even with tabs and proper CSS support.

Popup Blocker? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12325622)

Now THAT would be ironic as it would quash profits down at hotmail.com

Re:Popup Blocker? (-1, Redundant)

NetNifty (796376) | more than 9 years ago | (#12325633)

IE6 already has a popup blocker if you're running XP SP2 32-bit, XP 64-bit RC2, or Server 2003 SP1.

Thank God! (3, Interesting)

paragonc (813536) | more than 9 years ago | (#12325631)

Seeing as how i develope on a Mac all my sites seem to render perfectly in Safari - Firefox - Mozilla - and Opera. It usually takes me about a day to crank out a page. Then i have to leave myself 2 days to make that page compatable with IE 5 - 5.5 - and 6 with assorted javascript hacks and what not - even though IE 7 sounds like it might be a nice fix to many of my CSS issues, it's still gonna take years before everyone is running IE 7. I've actually opted into giving my clients a price cut if they just let me throw in a sniffer that excludes IE. + i can sell them on the fact that they are actually helping their clients by making them drop support for an awful product :)

IE holding a big percentage of usage may be good (2, Insightful)

thanasakis (225405) | more than 9 years ago | (#12325642)

Well, since almost 90% is still using IE, it is logical to assume that most of the exploits, etc etc are targeted towards it. I personally know of many people that use alternative browsers just because of that. Being part of the minority in that case makes you a somewhat more difficult target (not invincible though). So even if IE7 becomes better than firefox or opera, it won't matter. If it is going to be used be the average user, many people will avoid it because of that .

Bad news for Firefox (2, Insightful)

xRelisH (647464) | more than 9 years ago | (#12325643)

I believe this might greatly slow down or even reverse the switching of browsers for a lot of people.

IE7 might just be "good enough" for people to warrant not switching to Firefox. For people who are new, and perhaps not computer savvy, getting plugins to work with Firefox on Windows is non trivial. This isn't Firefox's fault because development focus for most plugins is still on IE.

But then again, it might be good news for us. Competition is good, this might ramp up Firefox development and bring more innovations for the rest of us.

It's alive! (0, Troll)

. visplek . (788207) | more than 9 years ago | (#12325646)

ALIVE! Huhahahaaa!!

ob. kung pow quote (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12325654)

"Pay no attention to IE, we purposely developed it wrong... as a joke."

Newsflash (1, Funny)

Grip3n (470031) | more than 9 years ago | (#12325655)

This just in...The new Microsoft Internet Explorer 7 will be Firefox rebranded to IE.

CSS Problems (3, Informative)

ArAgost (853804) | more than 9 years ago | (#12325665)

They may have solved the consistency problems, but the standards supports is in great part unimplemented. IE is still far behind its biggest competitors as can be seen easily by doing a quick comparison [chipx86.com] . The user might not care, but the developer does.

Of course, now...` (1)

StoatBringer (552938) | more than 9 years ago | (#12325678)

Microsoft will start patenting all the innovations that the other browsers have developed over the years.

They want feedback? I'll give em FEEDBACK (3, Funny)

argoff (142580) | more than 9 years ago | (#12325684)

First quit stuffing this proprietary crap down my throat, at least have the decency to put it under the GPL.

Second, please don't default load to the msn page, WTF, google.com would be much nicer.

Third, could you actually put something in there to block ads and popups, and any other crap that I don't want on my screen. Al least temporairly. Eg NO AD.DOUBBLECLICK.NET !!!!!

Fourth, last time I looked default IE has over ONE GIG of cache in the settings ... excuse me!!!!

Fifth, could you actually make it work with java????? .... no I mean the real java from Sun. And the same with the "real" javascript too now that I'm thinking about it.

Sixth, don't renember all my crap - I want privacy and security - and when I close the browser I want the option to not only take out the cache, cookies, and history of web sites visited, but also want it to TRUELY ERASE IT ... eg ... overwrite the blocks on the hard drive with random data. Get it!

Seventh, oh and this really pisses me off, PLEASE PLEASE when I hit the reload button - I want it to actually reload the data from the URL over the internet not reload a bunch of cache!!!

Eigth, can't you natively render PDF's. Why do I half to deal with all this over bloated adobe crap???? ... and the same with crapromedia now that I'm thinking of it.

Ninth, please put something in there that makes it easy for me to "steal" (GASP!!!) someone's "intellectual property". Yeah I know that's hideous to you, but that's what I want so get with it or get over it and get lost.

Actually, forget this, mozilla's not perfict, but at least it's going in the right directions.

MODERATORS ... please give them FEEDBACK (0, Offtopic)

argoff (142580) | more than 9 years ago | (#12325738)

Oh no you don't ... the only people who would mod this parent [slashdot.org] a troll would half to work for Microsoft! I'm sorry if they don't like the facts as I see it, but that's not my problem .... please go read the moderator guidelines.

Re:They want feedback? I'll give em FEEDBACK (5, Insightful)

rpozz (249652) | more than 9 years ago | (#12325750)

Third, could you actually put something in there to block ads and popups, and any other crap that I don't want on my screen. Al least temporairly. Eg NO AD.DOUBBLECLICK.NET !!!!!

Putting an ad-blocker (pop-ups are fair game) on something as popular as IE would cause very serious disruptions to many, many websites (ie their revenue stream gets completely cut). Not to mention the inevitable lawsuit if doubleclick.net was in by default.

I think the request for it being GPL'd is wishful thinking too. Maybe you need to calm down?

IE will always be behind (2, Interesting)

CastrTroy (595695) | more than 9 years ago | (#12325705)

IE will catch up to Firefox 2 years after Firefox already had all these features. By the time IE7 is done, FireFox will have many more features, not to mention tons of extensions, that are the real key to it's power. By the time IE gets to where FF is today, FF will have advanced way beyond what IE can hope to achieve from typical corporate development.

My browser's broken (1)

indiefusion (850491) | more than 9 years ago | (#12325746)

IEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!

Acid2 (4, Informative)

Omniscientist (806841) | more than 9 years ago | (#12325767)

Looking at the blog's comments, I saw someone mention the Acid2 test. I did a google and took it, and my Firefox 1.0.2 failed it.

Anyone know more details about this test and what browsers do pass it (I'm guessing IE6 doesn't, I don't have it so can't test it)? I'm surprised Firefox didn't, not because I'm a fan boy or anything, but because I presumed Firefox was in accordance with most of the standards.

This is the test [webstandards.org] and this is what it should look [webstandards.org] like. Here's some info [webstandards.org] about how it works.

Re:Acid2 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12325800)

So far, no browsers pass the Acid2 test.

So what? (0, Offtopic)

fallendove (875598) | more than 9 years ago | (#12325772)

Safari will still be the best browser on the market.
*snicker*

Dear Microsoft, (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12325782)


Die you worthless, buggy, unstable, virus ridden, crappily coded, operating system wanna be!

Long Live Linux!!!

the rest of the story (4, Funny)

ocularDeathRay (760450) | more than 9 years ago | (#12325801)

They forgot to mention that the new IE will render the letter "K" as the letter "O", and vice versa.

This feature should be easy to deal with, so long as pages are designed with it in mind. Unfortunately this will cause some confusion when trying to use the expression "O.K." or the boxing term "K.O.".

The new feature that causes the letter "e" to appear as a tiny version of the explorer logo is now slated for version 7.1, it had to be delayed due to technical problems. Consumer research shows that people think that the explorer logo is cuter than the letter "e".

Here, in FOSS (1)

SharpFang (651121) | more than 9 years ago | (#12325806)

...we use 2nd minor version for bugfix releases like from the above mentioned list. e.g. MSIE 6.01, not 7.
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