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The Truth About Linux and Windows

Hemos posted more than 9 years ago | from the getting-under-the-covers dept.

Linux Business 594

petrus4 writes "Groklaw has an update on the Laura DiDio saga. Apparently, her complaints about "Linux extremists" notwithstanding, cooler heads than the usual suspects are asking questions about her research. A very interesting read, and one which will hopefully encourage corporate readers to regard the Yankee Group's findings with the requisite metric ton of salt in the future."

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FP!!! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12338859)

up yours gnaa

The truth is... (-1, Offtopic)

slashalive (853666) | more than 9 years ago | (#12338867)

That everything is relative, even this statement.

Re:The truth is... (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12338906)

I agree. I hate the truth and the people who say they're saying the truth.

Everything is relative.

Re:The truth is... (3, Insightful)

dAzED1 (33635) | more than 9 years ago | (#12338969)

you're so funny.

No - everything is not relative. To say "everything is relative, even this statement" would suggest that for some people the statement isn't relative, which would mean that for some people truth isn't relative. Truth exists outside your perceptions, Dewey-wannabe. "Realitity is as you experience it to be?" No. Reality is that stuff that continues even when you choose to ignore it.

Saying "for some things, MS Windows is better. For other things, Linux is better" doesn't mean it's relative, it merely means the statement is vague. There are explicit things that Linux is better for. There are explicit things MS Windows is better for.

"Everything is relative?" So, a rock is only a rock when I percieve it to be one? No, if it's a rock it continues to be a rock until something changes that state. If it is not a rock, then it continues not being a rock until something changes that state. Merely wishing it one way or the other doesn't make it so.

Re:The truth is... (2, Funny)

kpwoodr (306527) | more than 9 years ago | (#12339035)

Ahhh Haa! But I ignore your post, and therefor it does not exist!

Re:The truth is... (-1, Offtopic)

dAzED1 (33635) | more than 9 years ago | (#12339099)

don't worry, the mod trolls that dislike my participation in discussions are out; the post won't exist soon anyway ;)

Nevermind that it is perfectly on-topic...guess the mods should read the article. C'est la vie.

Re:The truth is... (0, Troll)

slashalive (853666) | more than 9 years ago | (#12339038)

A rock might be rock hard to me, but it might be spoonge-soft to a Giant Crushing SuperMachine(tm). Yes, I do agree with you that a tree falling in a forest without me hearing it, is still just the same (Some people argue the opposite), but while something is universally true for me, might not be universally true for some(thing/one) else. As this is said, Linux is not better than Windows, and Windows is still not better than Linux, and while people go crazy about Linux vs. Windows, a few smart people just ignore the buzz and stick to *BSD

Re:The truth is... (0, Offtopic)

liquidpele (663430) | more than 9 years ago | (#12339044)

Ok. So a rock is thrown at you. You don't believe the rock exists because it's "relative" (and because you are stupid). The rock hits you in the head and you die.

1000000 years later, earth is gone and humanity is gone. There is no "memory" of such a rock or of it hitting you. So without the memory of the rock, did it ever exist or hit you? Is its existance relative to the memory of the event?

Re:The truth is... (1)

dAzED1 (33635) | more than 9 years ago | (#12339068)

uh, I think you'd be better off asking GP that. He's claiming the rock only exists because he says so. I'm claiming it's a rock because it's a rock.

Re:The truth is... (1)

liquidpele (663430) | more than 9 years ago | (#12339102)

I'm just arguing for the sake of arguing...
It's more entertaining than working anyways :)

besides, my point was that the rock isn't a rock unless you are there to verify it. Kind of a take on the alive/dead cat in a box thing.

Re:The truth is... (1)

dAzED1 (33635) | more than 9 years ago | (#12339165)

uh, no...the rock continues to be a rock without you being there to verify it. When you leave a room full of people, the trashcan in the corner is still there, regardless whether or not you can see it. Dewey was one self-centered individual, and it's quite sad how big an impact he had on modern thinking.

Re:The truth is... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12339226)

No, a rock is a rock regardless if you are there or not. If your perception of reality is so distorted that you believe a rock is a herring, it doesn't mean it is one.

Re:The truth is... (1)

liquidpele (663430) | more than 9 years ago | (#12339071)

* add 6 more zeros to that time-jump. I'm can't count.

Re:The truth is... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12339128)

Assuming a great deal wouldn't you say. What makes you think that we don't remember a million years from now. I see only evidence that we continue after this life. I see nothing to substantiate we don't.

Re:The truth is... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12339144)

So, been talking to dead relatives I guess?
I see the opposite, but I suppose it wouldn't be "faith" if it was obvious now would it?

Life after death (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12339222)

WTF?

Care to quote any of that "evidence"? Your consciousness ends at the moment of death (or most likely slightly before it) and that is a comforting thing.

I just want to sleep away and never feel anything again.

Re:The truth is... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12339070)

[quote]So, a rock is only a rock when I percieve it to be one? No, if it's a rock it continues to be a rock until something changes that state. If it is not a rock, then it continues not being a rock until something changes that state.[/quote]

A rock is a rock unless it's being used as a hammer, in which case it's a hammer, but comparing a rock to a real hammer will show the hammer to be vastly supirior at hammering. Comparing the rock to a pillow will show the rock to be vastly supirior at hammering.

It's all relative.

-Rick

Re:The truth is... (0, Offtopic)

Uber Banker (655221) | more than 9 years ago | (#12339220)

Scientific method vs. philosophy!

Indeed there is little point pursuing ideas of relativeness - if existence is relative upon perception in someone's mind then their mind is absolute - neurons or whatever exist allowing them to think in the absolute. This could be contested...

If perceiving is perceiving, then absolutes are be perceived. There is the falacy of the scientific method: you think its a rock because it fits your perception of being a rock. What if it were a cleverly painted glass ball, it might look and feel like a rock but its not a rock - so your perception is incorrect.

All oranges observed are coloured orange at ripe maturity, do you believe this? So if all cars observed are red does this make all cars red?

Philosophical criticism of the scientific method is indeed interesting, and vice versa. I humbly recommend Kant [wikipedia.org] as a starting point.

1st (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12338872)

post?

This is the one! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12338877)

frist psot!!!

If management believes Laura & Enderle's crap. (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12338902)

...what can I do about it.

They even subscribe to some Enderle research because they see him "well connected" to important companies like microsoft.

I can't understand how being a paid shill _incresease_ their credibility with management; but somehow it does. MBA's. go figure.

Diminishing Options (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12338905)

All that is left for Microsoft in the long term is to take the SCO route, patent and sue for patent-regardless of its lack of genuine novelty. Nothing will speed the rise of its competitors in the market, whether commercial or not, but its fall by means of their actions is certain in the long run, but many will still be able to make a lot of money from them in the mean time.

hm. (1, Insightful)

eobanb (823187) | more than 9 years ago | (#12338912)

This is a really confusing article. Mostly because of the quotes of quotes, and the use of lots of pronouns. I have trouble keeping track of it all. That said, I appreciate civilised discourse, and having said THAT, DiDio nor certain Linux fanatics seem to be all that snuggly towards discussing things rationally.

Half of Users Already Know Windows Costs Too Much (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12338913)

I thought it was interesting that she spun the fact that only half of the respondents of the survey thought Linux was cheaper with the implication that the other half thought Windows was cheaper. Not so: [businessweek.com]

One slide said "Half of Users Say Linux Deployment Is Cheaper than Windows." You might draw the conclusion that the other half say Windows is cheaper than Linux. But you'd be wrong. The bar chart on the slide showed that 34% of the respondents have not deployed a Linux server, so have no grounds for an opinion, and only 9% said their Linux deployments were more expensive than Windows deployments.

Re:Half of Users Already Know Windows Costs Too Mu (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12339000)

I did a straw poll among work colleagues and they all had windows XP installed. Why? Because it was the same price as Linux (i,e, they either got it off some thai market stall, or they paid for it with with the system and they had no choice -e.g. Dell)

If dodgy Microsoft volume license copies of XP weren't doing the rounds so much, then many home users would much rather use/try a free OS (Linux) than pay a hundred pounds for each incarnation of Microsoft Windows.

Re:Half of Users Already Know Windows Costs Too Mu (1)

Aruthra (826467) | more than 9 years ago | (#12339007)

Well, lies, damn lies, and statistics, right?

Re:Half of Users Already Know Windows Costs Too Mu (1, Interesting)

DogDude (805747) | more than 9 years ago | (#12339076)

For many of us, there is no need to deploy a Linux server to know whether or not it's cheaper. All of our Windows support is done in house. Just to get a Linux box up and working would require hiring an outside consultant, which right there, adds a massive cost. It's like saying that a person who says that they can't afford a Ferrari is irrelevant since they've never bought one.

Re:Half of Users Already Know Windows Costs Too Mu (1)

wcdw (179126) | more than 9 years ago | (#12339146)

Spoken like someone who has never actually *tried* to install a Linux system. It's like saying that you wouldn't be able to drive the Ferrari, because you can't afford one.

Re:Half of Users Already Know Windows Costs Too Mu (3, Insightful)

DogDude (805747) | more than 9 years ago | (#12339203)

I've personally tried about a dozen times, and none of those installs worked correctly, and they all required a substantial amount of work to get them working even close to a Windows system working out of the box (none of the attempts ever yielded a 100% functioning PC). Thus, I know that a server would require a high-paid consultant to set up.

Re:Half of Users Already Know Windows Costs Too Mu (2)

frikazoyd (845667) | more than 9 years ago | (#12339147)

On the flipside of that, there are many corporations who go out of their way to find people that know Linux and can get a Linux server running in no time, and do all their Linux support in-house. They actively train those who don't know it as well, and are proficient at providing all sorts of in-house Linux support. To these corporations, it can be hard to find someone who says "I know Windows really well" and expect them to know how to do some of the stuff an MCSE can do. Saying "I know Windows" in an interview is radically different than saying "I know Linux", and it shows in the levels of confidence in the interviewee (unless they are a good liar).

Re:Half of Users Already Know Windows Costs Too Mu (1)

Phragmen-Lindelof (246056) | more than 9 years ago | (#12339198)

Is your "in house" support free? If you started from scratch, would windows be cheaper? Would you have to hire an outside consultant to set up and run a single Linux box (say for your web pages)? Could you use a Gentoo LiveCD or LiveDVD to install Linux on a computer? What about white box linux or RHEL?

Re:Half of Users Already Know Windows Costs Too Mu (-1, Flamebait)

DogDude (805747) | more than 9 years ago | (#12339235)

No, I bill myself out at roughly $15/hour. I've done the math. And no, I've never successfully gotten ANY Linux install to work on ANY PC, so doing something like installing Apache is a moot point if I'm squinting at a monitor at 640x480 and 16 colors and I can't figure out how in the hell to fix it.

Finally, the truth! (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12338922)

This should settle all these arguments going around once and for all.

I don't know why this is so deviceive. (3, Insightful)

Future Man 3000 (706329) | more than 9 years ago | (#12338934)

Anybody that tells you Linux is better than Windows or Windows is better than Linux is, at best, simply wrong.

The truth of the matter is that you should choose the operating system that suits your needs. If you want an inexpensive machine for Computer Science studies or to learn UNIX networking or even as a SOHO server for the advanced user, Linux is your game. Similarly, for gaming, business applications, enterprise servers or streaming media from your computer to your TV you won't go wrong with Windows.

But to get caught up in "OS 1 is better than OS 2" debates is pure silliness, especially when you can run both easily.

Re:I don't know why this is so deviceive. (4, Funny)

eobanb (823187) | more than 9 years ago | (#12338958)

OS 1 is better than OS 2

Personally I like OS/390.

Re:I don't know why this is so deviceive. (2, Interesting)

isecore (132059) | more than 9 years ago | (#12338991)

But to get caught up in "OS 1 is better than OS 2" debates is pure silliness, especially when you can run both easily.

Yes, but OS/2 might become open-source! [slashdot.org]

Re:I don't know why this is so deviceive. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12338997)

let me guess, you're a pico user.

Re:I don't know why this is so deviceive. (3, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12339057)

"That word...I do not think it means what you think it means." : )

By any chance, did you mean "divisive"?
I know, being picky about spelling. But in my defense I will point out that "deviceive" isn't even a word!

Re:I don't know why this is so deviceive. (1, Troll)

lubricated (49106) | more than 9 years ago | (#12339058)

> gaming, business applications, enterprise servers or streaming media from your computer to your TV you won't go wrong with Windows.

what a bunch of astroturfing crap. Let's see. Gaming, ok sounds good it's better on windows. starting off nicely. Business applications, lost it with that one already,
wtf is a business application(just about anything other than games?)
enterprise servers(yes if you want your enterprise servers to be shitty, windows is much better)
streaming media from your computer to your TV, yes that way I can store my movies on my tv's hard drive. Oh wait, my tv lacks a hard drive. Perhaps you meant tv out.

Re:I don't know why this is so deviceive. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12339103)

> wtf is a business application(just about anything other than games?)

Why are you commenting on a subject you clearly know nothing about?

Oh wait, sorry, forgot where I was.

Re:I don't know why this is so deviceive. (0, Troll)

DogDude (805747) | more than 9 years ago | (#12339118)

wtf is a business application(just about anything other than games?)

Ok, smartass. Show me one financial package equivalent to Quickbooks Premier that runs on Linux. Then, show me one point of sale system that is as easy to set up and use as, say, Intuit QBPOS or MS RMS. Until you can do that, then you are the one astroturfing, either that, or you're just talking out of your ass. As a business owner, I can't wait until Linux is stable enough, usable enough, affordable enough, and has at least ONE application that is useful for my business.

Re:I don't know why this is so deviceive. (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12339151)

has at least ONE application that is useful for my business.

Are you expecting that such an application just comes out of nothing?

Why don't you fucking code it yourself or hire some open source programmers to do it?!

Re:I don't know why this is so deviceive. (3, Funny)

Dwonis (52652) | more than 9 years ago | (#12339214)

[I can't wait until Linux] has at least ONE application that is useful for my business.

VMware [vmware.com] runs on Linux... ;-)

windows enterprise servers? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12339060)

Gotta say I vote for Linux in that department almost every time.

Re:I don't know why this is so deviceive. (2, Insightful)

Locke2005 (849178) | more than 9 years ago | (#12339097)

Similarly, for gaming, business applications, enterprise servers or streaming media from your computer to your TV you won't go wrong with Windows. Yes and no. For gaming or business desktops, Windows XP is currently a better choice due to the number of applications available. For enterprise servers, Linux offers better performance and much better price/performance. Not sure about streaming media, but since most media formats require licenses for proprietary formats, Microsoft probably has an advantage there, to. Linux rules in the embedded, server, and scientific computing markets... unfortunately it does not currently dominate in the desktop market, and will not until a new generation of users trained to use Linux instead of Windows enters the work force.

Re:I don't know why this is so deviceive. (3, Funny)

vadim_t (324782) | more than 9 years ago | (#12339132)

Yup, exactly. We all know that on average, operating systems are equivalent in their quality and usefulness.

Anybody that tells you that Solaris is better than MS-DOS, or MS-DOS is better than Solaris is, at best, simply wrong.

Yoo hoo (-1, Offtopic)

inqztiv (796900) | more than 9 years ago | (#12338937)

Second Post (Mod -10 Troll)

Beware (0, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12338940)

If I've learnt anything during my life, it is that you should just ignore anyone who claims to know the truth about something.

Re:Beware (1)

stuffduff (681819) | more than 9 years ago | (#12339202)

I thought it was:

Don't believe anything you hear, and only half of what you say."

Wow .... (0)

Sonic McTails (700139) | more than 9 years ago | (#12338946)

Why the hell do people post this on Slashdot. It means it's getting press and going to make bigger news sources, and some people/idiot might think that this is legit, and take it over other artices.

The truth is... (3, Insightful)

suitepotato (863945) | more than 9 years ago | (#12338954)

1. Linux still isn't ready for prime time zero hassle common user usage. Install Knoppix from the live cd at 800x600 and oops, now you gotta go to change the config as root to explicitly tell it your card can do 1024x768 because the installer sets as maximum whatever you were using the live cd at. Fedora's installer tries to relax you regarding Grub, but most of the time forcing LBA32 is needed or it sits there doing nothing at boot. Etc. Small potatoes for techs being paid to support it and used to all sorts of crockery, but not for casual users who shouldn't have to read inaccessible man pages because you can't even boot one machine during install.

2. Linux is being adopted and the rise in compromised roots is testament to this. I salute the geniuses who've sold Linux without regard to education of the average business user on security.

3. Windows will not be killed. Not going to happen. We will have competition indefinitely. And this is a good good thing.

Re:The truth is... (4, Insightful)

eobanb (823187) | more than 9 years ago | (#12339006)

We will have competition indefinitely. And this is a good good thing Oh I definitely agree, competition is good. But I also don't agree that open source software necessarily needs competition (at all) to improve. If a user wants a new feature or a bug fixed, then it actually happens, even without a competing product including that feature. That's the genius of open source. Not to mention that anyone can fork a project at any time if they don't like how it's going (although this isn't always true for what I consider shared-source projects, like under the CDDL). With Windows, if you don't like it, you have no choice except to not use Windows. With Linux, you do have a choice, and THAT is the fundamental difference.

Re:The truth is... (2, Insightful)

Jeff Hornby (211519) | more than 9 years ago | (#12339160)

If a user wants a new feature or a bug fixed, then it actually happens, even without a competing product including that feature

Yeah, I know that whenever my mom, who uses windows, needs her computer to do something new, she constantly complains that she can't just fire up a C++ editor and make the changes to the source code herself.

And my six year old nephew was complaining that his games were kind of sluggish. Poor kid can't just look at the source and find the problems.

Face it, the ability to change operating system code is a benefit for .0001% of people and of absolutely no use to the other 99.9999% of people. And as for forking your own project, try it sometime. Do you have the time and resources to maintain your own source tree? Starting it is easy, maintaining such a beast is a huge commitment.

Re:The truth is... (4, Funny)

Excen (686416) | more than 9 years ago | (#12339010)

We will have competition indefinitely. And this is a good good thing.

It's so nice to see a /.er embrace economics. It's like hearing a Mac zealot say that 2 mouse buttons are better than one.

Re:The truth is... (4, Interesting)

iggymanz (596061) | more than 9 years ago | (#12339017)

2. the exact same situation exists with Windows, billions of dollars of damage has been done by worms, trojans, viruses, etc. in the last four years due to failure to keep current with Windows patches to known problems

3. What happens when the expanding markets of India and China grow a new customer base that is bigger than all existing computer users at present, and they choose not to use Windows in those systems?

Re:The truth is... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12339055)

re:screen resolution in X--I'd recommend using a tool like Xconfigurator when possible. Yes, it'd be nice if this were more integrated into more Linux distributions.

Re:The truth is... (1)

FidelCatsro (861135) | more than 9 years ago | (#12339073)

Odd that , as for me knoppix has always auto discoverd most of the monitors i used it on and thats alot of workstations. and if you want easy install , try ubuntu.
Plus try the same thing with windows if you dont have a graphics driver at hand ;) same situation with low reseloution.

The ammount of compromised roots ? got any fiqures to back that up

Last but not least , We don't(most of us) want to destroy windows , we want options (personaly i dont use windows at-all and im glad i can do that thanks to the work of the Wine team and contributers) and we want the ability to choose what we run and on what system we run it , so the only thing we want to do is destroy windows monopoly and force a fairer market.

Re:The truth is... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12339192)

Odd that , as for me knoppix has always auto discoverd most of the monitors i used it on and thats alot of workstations. and if you want easy install , try ubuntu.

Too bad all the distros have kernel 2.6.x, instead of 2.4. I run a scsi only system, and need that driver to load first. Knoppix 3.7 so far is the only one that has run on my system. I am an uber noob when it comes to Linux, so recompiling 2.6.x to load scsi first is out of my reach for a while. I want a chance to try K/Ubuntu, Kanotix, and Mepis, but I can't. :(

Of course without my previous Windows knowledge, I'd probably be in the same situation with it. I am glad however that Windows does give you at least some clue that drivers are missing for devices. If Linux did this, it would be major. I know Knoppix didn't find my media card reader/usb hub. If I was a total pc noob, I probably wouldn't have known it for a while.

Re:The truth is... (2, Insightful)

LittleLebowskiUrbanA (619114) | more than 9 years ago | (#12339148)

Your examples are terrible. Windows can't set the right resolution on nVidia cards without the drivers either. Does that mean Windows isn't ready for "prime time zero hassle common user usage?"
What about the geniuses who've sold Windows "without regard to education of the average business user on security?" How many SMBs have bought Small Business Server 2003 and had IIS compromised?
Also, you made the classic uninformed mistake of confusing Linux distribution-level mistakes with the quality of the Linux kernel. Now repeat after me:
"Linux is not a distribution, it is a kernel. Any problems with the distribution, X errors, etc, should be addressed with the vendor."

Re:The truth is... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12339157)

The truth is that Knoppix brings by default a tool caled "Screen Resize & Rotate" wich is on the system tray than can change the resolution on the fly with needing root premissions.
Also it scans the monitor not the video card for looking for modes(usually)

Re:The truth is... (2, Interesting)

pete-classic (75983) | more than 9 years ago | (#12339167)

Linux still isn't ready for prime time zero hassle common user usage.


In contrast to what?

My IT department can't explain why the suspend option disappeared on my whiz-bang XP notebook. I only wish there was some config file I could tweak to bring it back.

I'm not saying Linux is perfect, but it seems you're implying that Windows is "zero hassle", which it clearly isn't.

Linux is being adopted and the rise in compromised roots is testament to this.


Compromised roots, huh? It's cool that you've drunk the Windows Kool-aid and all, but if you are going to pretend to be neutral, you can't reveal your ignorance about one side.

-Peter

In other news... (3, Funny)

notherenow (860367) | more than 9 years ago | (#12338956)

...Rednecks in Alabama finally decide to stop fighting over who makes a better truck, Ford or Chevrolet.

Both companies are American, right? Profit!

Re:In other news... (-1, Troll)

Rosco P. Coltrane (209368) | more than 9 years ago | (#12339026)

Both companies are American, right? Profit!

Please provide the address for Linux, Inc. I have complaints I have to lodge about their product, and I can't seem to find a customer support line anywhere in the phone book!

Re:In other news... (1)

Klivian (850755) | more than 9 years ago | (#12339079)

Simple it's on the same page as the Car, Inc address, you have to read your phone book more carefully.

Re:In other news... (1)

notherenow (860367) | more than 9 years ago | (#12339204)

No, I think the point has been missed. This is an ongoing thing. As long as there are only 2 fighting, then there will only be 2 getting noticed.

"Oh what about Mac?" Mac is the Kia of it's time. It's what you need, and only what you need. What's the fun in that? If it can't be exploited and run against, then how can we compare it? Eventually, you will be able to buy one, and get one free.

Re:In other news... (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12339072)

Toyota

Yeah, but for those of us in Texas... (1)

raider_red (156642) | more than 9 years ago | (#12339189)

The Toyota Tundra is made in San Antonio. That's definitely better than one made in one o' them Yankee states like Michigan.

This feels odd (5, Funny)

c0ldfusi0n (736058) | more than 9 years ago | (#12338959)

Why does Truth, Linux and Windows in the same sentence seems so awfully wrong to me?

Re:This feels odd (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12338987)

Don't question it.

Just toe the partyline, embrace Linux and Stallmanism and join the collective.

And in other news (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12338976)

And in other news... Corporations don't care about you! *gasp*

The more i read that name (5, Funny)

FidelCatsro (861135) | more than 9 years ago | (#12338979)

The more i read that name the more my mind begins to replace Didio with Dildo.
And the more i read what Dildio has to say the more i think my dyslexia is right

Re:The more i read that name (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12339069)

You are dyslexic. Just look at your name, you sexist pig.

If a man made those statements, you'd simply perceive him as strong-willed. But with a woman, you're resorting to name-calling in order to cover your own inadequacy.

Re:The more i read that name (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12339116)

Nice atempt at trolling , but sadly quite poor.

If a man made those statments i would make the same joke :P
Discrimination just because she is a woman is wrong , equal joviality for all.

Sexism is discrimination based on gender , as your doing .

Re:The more i read that name (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12339209)

as you're doing not your doing. Critiques do best when not done incorrectly.

Re:The more i read that name (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12339233)

You are sex maniac. It is good to have a dildo. Specially didio might use it to fend off any attack by those linux 'nerds'. It has so many use. Why you always have to think in the 'box'. LOL!!

Re:The more i read that name (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12339075)

The more i read that name the more my mind begins to replace Didio with Dildo.
And the more i read what Dildio has to say the more i think my dyslexia is right


Or the most accurate:

Didio => Didiot

Joke (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12339175)

Wow , the above posters are weak.
The parent is a simple joke , it made me laugh . Women or men are equal targets for satire , it just so hapens Didio looks awfully like Dildo or didiot .

Wow some of the mods have no sense of humor , if you don't think its funny then mod it over-rated not offtopic .It is on topic .

Re:Joke (1, Insightful)

FidelCatsro (861135) | more than 9 years ago | (#12339238)

Well thanks ! Yes it was a simple joke . The reason is that the woman really does deserve no respect in this industry and yet she continues to get constant coverage. Im willing to bet she makes a fair bit from sponsership through links.

With The animosity she causes by her ill-informed rants ..I'm amazed any industry types take her seriously any-more.

Yes also it was not sexist , Its just her name is Didio and not Schillster as i would rather have made a joke calling her a schill or a tool but it wouldnt of made me laugh as much and would lose all humor .

Actualy i supose i could call her Drildio as she is a tool , alas thanks for understading that sometimes its just a joke

Linux extremist? (0, Flamebait)

crottsma (859162) | more than 9 years ago | (#12338982)

Haha! The term "Linux-extremist" is redundant. The very definition of a "Linux-user" already contains the connotation of "extremist," inasmuch as all the users are zealous users and defenders of Linux. I have never met a lukewarm Linux user.

Re:Linux extremist? (5, Funny)

halivar (535827) | more than 9 years ago | (#12339033)

Haha! The term "Linux-extremist" is redundant. The very definition of a "Linux-user" already contains the connotation of "extremist," inasmuch as all the users are zealous users and defenders of Linux. I have never met a lukewarm Linux user.

Well, think of it like this: we stepped outside, noticed the house was on fire, and we're trying to tell you to get the fuck out of there while you still can. Yes, I'd say we're a pretty zealous lot.

Re:Linux extremist? (3, Interesting)

Cougem (734635) | more than 9 years ago | (#12339129)

I disagree very strongly. My main operating system is Windows, which I operate on my University desktop. But, due to restrictions at my collate at my Uni, I can't use bittorrent or other peer2peer programs.

I have therefore got my old P2 350 running at home, and via SSH, bittorrent all my wanted TV shows to that, before FTPing it to my Uni box.

I'm a linux extremist? No, it just gets the job done.

Re:Linux extremist? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12339169)

stepped outside, noticed the house was on fire, and we're trying to tell you to get the fuck out of there while you still can.

Did you try yelling "Porkchop Sandwiches!!!" ?

Re:Linux extremist? (3, Insightful)

aiken_d (127097) | more than 9 years ago | (#12339232)

The only problem is that while you're out there yelling and screaming to get the fuck out before someone dies, most of the real world is inside getting on with life, annoyed in equal parts with the poor construction of the house and with the maniacs outside who are screaming bloody murder all night.

Linux / Windows is *not* a life or death choice for most of us who have jobs to do. So-called advocates who would present it as such do far more harm than good to Linux's reputation in the business world.

Cheers
-b

Hmm.... (5, Interesting)

Locke2005 (849178) | more than 9 years ago | (#12338992)

Since almost all wireless routers and firewalls (and many other embedded devices including digital projectors and printers) out there are already running Linux, and the vendors of these devices usually don't bother to point out to the customer what OS is it using, I'd say that many small business are already using Linux and don't even know it!

Re:Hmm.... (3, Insightful)

0racle (667029) | more than 9 years ago | (#12339040)

You make it sound like its shocking that they don't know what it runs, but most people running computers don't know what software its running.

Re:Hmm.... (4, Insightful)

Daniel Dvorkin (106857) | more than 9 years ago | (#12339126)

most people running computers don't know what software its running

Very true, and much of the time it makes no difference. But when you're conducting a study on software costs, it makes sense to make sure the people you're asking questions of do know, or else the results are meaningless.

Re:Hmm.... (2, Insightful)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 9 years ago | (#12339181)

Arguably, using a Linux-based appliance is not really "using Linux" - it is certainly literally using Linux, but you're not interfacing to it. As long as it works, it doesn't mean diddly squat to you whether it runs Linux, IOS, DOS, or if it's a LISP machine.

Re:Hmm.... (1)

ghoda_x (808190) | more than 9 years ago | (#12339141)

Since almost all wireless routers and firewalls...out there are already running Linux...

Hmm indeed, considering I own/setup quite a few different brands of routers for myself/friends/family/etc and I have found the balance to be about 50/50 between *nix & windows (quite a lot of linksys routers report win2k as their OS). Either way, these are dedicated routers/firewalls you are talking about, not desktop machines, so this is an 'apples to oranges' comparison at best.

The real truth is ... (4, Interesting)

argoff (142580) | more than 9 years ago | (#12339043)

... that this is a pissing contest, and it has nothing to do with the real issue. The core issue is that Linux is compatable with the information age, because it treats the unrestricted ability to copy and manipulate itself over the internet like a benefit. Windows is not, becuase it trys to treat information like "intellectual property" and sees the unrestricted ability to copy and manipulate information over the internet as a threat and "piracy". They (MS) have simply held themselves accountable to a paradigm that has no place in the information age, and they're trying to shift the argument to issues like "tco", and "features", and "hidded costs" to avoid it. In the long term, this is all totally irrelavent as to who wins. It doesn't matter what's Linux's flaws are - they will be remedied by market forces sooner or later.

Eating her out (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12339045)

I'd love to eat her [yimg.com] out. I'd give her [yimg.com] such mindblowing orgasms. But she [yimg.com] ignores me and my letters, phone calls and any attempts to make contact. Bitch [yimg.com] .

My own MS/ Linux comparison (4, Interesting)

acomj (20611) | more than 9 years ago | (#12339087)

I built a small office server for a company.

Spare Dell 400 mhz - 50$
mandrake -$
mysql - $

The office unknown to me had bought this very expensive win 2004 dell server (there network/computer consulting co told them they needed it to host my appliation). It was over 2000$. They didn't need it and the company couldn't install apache/mysql/php (Who do I call for support?).

I installed the linux and everything in about 4 hours. Linux installs have gotten much much better. Scary easy.

Basically the linux server has been chugging away for over a year with no problems. hardly maintenance. Nothing (Its behind a firewall). The windows server has had all sorts of networking issuse that keeps a tech visiting the office once a week.(granted its doing more but still).

Which is cheaper again???

Re:My own MS/ Linux comparison (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12339179)

Given that they had already gotten a dell server, why build another machine, instead of just wiping it and putting linux on it? Just curious.

The Truth (1)

goldenratiophi (878655) | more than 9 years ago | (#12339108)

There will always be battles between Linux and Windows.

no more politics! (2, Insightful)

dionysian.mind (862531) | more than 9 years ago | (#12339122)

This whole battle is absurd. Why has it all become so convoluted? Cost of deployment / migration: it is this simple -- if you have a pre-existing IT staff that is trained exclusively in windows, windows will be cheaper. If you have an IT staff educated in linux, it will be MUCH cheaper. This goes with TCO, etc. When it comes to stability, security, management, operation, these things will all be relative -- once again, to the competence of your IT staff (how and why they use what the use, how everything is implemented, etc.). Don't listen to anybody who says windows security holes are directly variable to linux security holes if they are just looking at them by numbers. Yea, linux has security holes (every OS does), but windows has HUGE security holes that are open invitations to destruction that are patched... eventually. The OSS community is pretty damn good at patching even the obscure holes pretty darn quick - and being honest about it. M$ will always be willing to strong-arm you into using their proprietary crap, and they will attempt to thwart linux via absurd propaganda campaigns. But none of that matters. Let the politics alone - that's not the IT workers job. Who is your IT staff, how are they trained? If they know what they are doing the OS shouldn't matter -- linux, aix, *bsd, windows, OS X, solaris: who cares?! We could all sit and bicker about the pluses and minuses of every server OS until the earth crashes into the sun, but the better plan is to skip the politics and educate the IT industry about every option and alternative. The problem with OS wars will always be that people believe that if they choose a side, fight for it, and win that they have won. Wrong. The burden of the IT professional and / or system administrator is one hell of a burden: you have to know everything. If you are an extremist in your profession to either side you are wrong -- it's not about the sys. admin. it's about the user and what works for them. It's about ensuring that *they* don't have to fix their computer -- that is our job. If a secretary has to spend even 5 minutes a day worrying about a program consistently crashing, or if they can log in or not, it's the admins. fault. period. Those are 5 minutes that they should have been doing what their job is. What we, as IT professionals, use at home is our deal, our preference, and our choice -- what we do at work is a different story. As an industry we all need to stop bickering and just learn our stuff, be competent, and be able and willing to work with everything that is out there to ensure that things "just work."

More references (3, Informative)

karvind (833059) | more than 9 years ago | (#12339143)

Here [thechannelinsider.com] is a little older article from Terri Kershner of Haverstick Consulting on LvsW. Gist: In today's rapidly changing IT environment, the tortoise can still win if the hare's only path is blocked.

Joe Zwers wrote a good article about Truth in benchmarking [serverworldmagazine.com] and how some companies blantantly manipulate data to reach marketing goals.

Slashdot coverage on earlier Linux vs Windows studies: here [slashdot.org] , here [slashdot.org] , here [slashdot.org] , here [slashdot.org] and here [slashdot.org] .

We also coverd a Microsoft study on W vs L [slashdot.org]

Can't we just settle the argument? (4, Interesting)

raider_red (156642) | more than 9 years ago | (#12339152)

Okay, here's a novel thought to settle the argument: Windows is better for some applications, and Linux is better for others. If I want to set up a desktop that's easy to use for those without engineering degrees, I'll probably recommend Windows. If I want to run a data center which requires high flexibility, fast file access, and reliable, reduntant storage, I'll use Linux, or possibly Solaris. And finally if I want to deploy a large number of engineering workstations, I'll go with Linux.

Apple (0, Flamebait)

fox9397 (873641) | more than 9 years ago | (#12339158)

This Windows Linux debate is actually excellent marketing from Apple computers :)

TCO Laugher (4, Informative)

salesgeek (263995) | more than 9 years ago | (#12339159)

As a veteran of selling on TCO, I've always got a kick out of these studies because they are so disconnected from reality. How can something that is like getting a five course buffet-style dinner for free somehow cost more than buying a meal a la carte, one dish at a time? I suppose it's the fact you've got to help yourself at the Linux buffet while they'll spoon feed you over at MS (and they really don't spoonfeed).

Linux has five advantages that simply render the conversation moot:

Cost of licenses
Customizability
Training Costs
Security
Out of box functionality

Linux licensing costs are self-explanatory. Hard to beat zero.

Linux is completely customizable. You can change anything and everything to fit your need.

MCSE certs are expensive. Linux certs are less so. Conversions from windows end users to linux are fairly painless. Sorry, Yankee, but learning how to operate a one windowing user interface is pretty easy when you are familiar with another.

Linux Security isn't perfect - but it's a quantum leap from Windows.

Where Windows cannot compete is with the out of the box capabilites of most every Linux distro. With Windows, you have to purchase thousands of dollars of software licenses to do what I can with my free download of Mephis or whatever. End user software is included. So is Server software. I'm out a minimum of $300 just to be able to do basic productivity. All those CALs add up with Windows.

Groklaw is about as close to the middle as Neptune (2, Insightful)

dmccarty (152630) | more than 9 years ago | (#12339183)

From TFA:
I've got a bone to pick with the never-ending stream of studies by tech research outfits comparing Linux to Windows. For starters, it seems like about half of them are paid for by one camp or another.

If we agree that this is the main premise, I have a problem with the write-up on Groklaw in the first place. I think it's unlikely that most corporations (to whom the original study was aimed at) will find much value in an article on a site that has never displayed much consideration for corporate interests.[1]

[1] Unless they happen to be interests that parallel the Linux community

She was a shill during the HP Compaq merger (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12339234)

I gave up listening to her B.S. during the HP/Compaq merger. She sounds like she just makes this stuff up as she goes along.
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