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Total Annihilation Remake Released

Zonk posted more than 8 years ago | from the late,-lamented-cave-dog dept.

Real Time Strategy (Games) 93

Pxtl writes "The long-awaited remake of Total Annihilation (considered "#1 RTS of All Time" by Gamepsy), "Spring" has hit its first official public beta release. The game reimplements the original Cavedog game in a full 3d environment, replacing TA's fixed-angle view. It also brings other new features to the table, such as revised physics and a 1st-person-shooter mode. Spring reuses the original TA content and is backwards compatible with the old unit packs. While the game is currently win32 only, its source has been released under the GPL, so fixing that is only a matter of time. Get to the download page now and help out with the torrents."

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93 comments

Totally under my radar (1)

Palshife (60519) | more than 8 years ago | (#12362120)

Wow. I'll confess to being one of the greatest TA fans of all time, and somehow I completely missed the project's existence. Downloading now!

Not familiar with it (2)

Nos. (179609) | more than 8 years ago | (#12362202)

Okay, I've heard of, but never played TA. I had a look at the website and am definitely curious and will probably download it tonight and give it a try. Can anyone give me an idea of the game play and such. The FAQ seems to focus mainly on details and differences between it and the origintal TA. I'm a big fan of RTS games (I still play starcraft), and would more than likely love this game. Is it multiplayer?

Re:Not familiar with it (2, Informative)

ZosX (517789) | more than 8 years ago | (#12362314)

I'm not a big fan of RTS for the most part, except for maybe homeworld and dungeon keeper 2 (was this the first to introduce 1st person shooting?), however, that being said, Total Anihilation is one of the best games I've ever played period. I don't even think starcraft can compare from the little that I've played of it. The technology is awesome (create minerals from energy for instance) and the weapons get more and more powerful to the point where you have tactical nuclear weapons. Then the fun really starts. A game that truly lives up to its name in form and function!

Definately worth checking out. I don't know if you'll need the CDs to play the open source engine, but either way, you should definately check out what TA was like because very rarely does a game of such greatness ever come around.

Re:Not familiar with it (1, Informative)

mconeone (765767) | more than 8 years ago | (#12362440)

1st person shooting came around way before TA, Wolfenstein 3D was the first mainstream one.

Re: Is it multiplayer? (4, Informative)

Richard Steiner (1585) | more than 8 years ago | (#12362391)

Oh yes. :-) TA is, anyway, up to ten (10) people in a given level. With all the units running around in that game, things can get messy rather quickly.

Now... I wanna see a Linux port!

Re: Is it multiplayer? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#12364932)

I wanna see a OS X port

Re:Not familiar with it (2, Informative)

jimi the hippie (725322) | more than 8 years ago | (#12363033)

If you don't own TA, you can't "legally" download this clone. :-P

Re:Not familiar with it (1)

Nos. (179609) | more than 8 years ago | (#12363484)

Really? I wondered about that, but didn't see any mention of it anywhere. That's really disappointing. I think I would have enjoyed this game. Oh well, back to Starcraft I guess.

Re:Not familiar with it (1, Insightful)

MadChicken (36468) | more than 8 years ago | (#12364295)

I don't think that's true. I think the XTA stuff is a drop-in replacement for the commercial units/maps.

If I'm wrong, please respond.

Re:Not familiar with it (1)

MadChicken (36468) | more than 8 years ago | (#12366482)

Ooops. Moderate down the parent. The bozo didn't install the game and check the readme.

Yes, it does contain TA *modded* files.

Though I have never really seen these so-called abandonware sites that claim to have TA... The last one I found was $5.95 (CDN) for the Commander Pack. Wish I could find another one at that price!

Re:Not familiar with it (1)

Goldberg's Pants (139800) | more than 8 years ago | (#12369486)

Since Cavedog have long since ceased to exist, there's always the P2P option. On Bit Torrent, you can find an archive of the game and it's two expansions.

Just figured I'd mention it, since I've not seen the Commander Pack in well over 3 years.

Re:Not familiar with it (2, Informative)

jimi the hippie (725322) | more than 8 years ago | (#12367122)

It says right on the download page: "This category contains the latest releases from the TA Spring project. Some of the downloads includes the TA mod XTA which, like all TA mods, contains content from the game Total Annihilation. Therefore you will have to own a copy of TA to legally use this content."

Re:Not familiar with it (1)

prezkennedy.org (786501) | more than 8 years ago | (#12367558)

Sounds like you'll be stuck playing a game where a Marine with a machine gun can shoot down an interplanetary battlecruiser.

How exciting...

Re:Not familiar with it (2, Informative)

KDR_11k (778916) | more than 8 years ago | (#12363764)

It's online multiplayer only. Which sucks since my network doesn't permit any connections that don't use the proxy or run on anything but port 80 (and 53 I assume). Neither of which this thing can be set to use.

Re:Not familiar with it (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#12366275)

Well, by running directly Spring.exe without passing via the lobby, you can play offline. But then you're alone, there's no AI (yet?).

Re:Not familiar with it (1)

MadChicken (36468) | more than 8 years ago | (#12363943)

TA is definitely multiplayer, and does a great job at it. If you like Starcraft you're going to flip over TA.

The big thing that makes TA stand out: VOLUME. Don't build small. "Just squeaking by" is not a good TA strategy, this is all about unreasonable displays of force!

Re:Not familiar with it (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#12366333)

> The big thing that makes TA stand out: VOLUME.

Units and music. It has a truly awesome Mahler-esque symphonic score.

Re:Not familiar with it (1)

Sigma 7 (266129) | more than 8 years ago | (#12367950)

If you like Starcraft you're going to flip over TA.


No - Starcraft and TA are two different games. TA involved effectivly setting up your economy and launching a massive strike, while Starcraft revolved against tactical strikes (or used to before everyone demanded that ladder games be cranked over to fastest.)

In either case, both of these games could benefit from including a semi-prebuilt base in the initial loadout - just to prevent the need for the tedious pre-combat phase.

Re:Not familiar with it (1)

The Tyrant (472050) | more than 8 years ago | (#12386344)

Some of us prefer the pre-combat phase. Often in TA I'll set up a game with 3 AI's ganging up against me and just build defenses, find my spot of land and hold it against the AI's. Of course this dosnt work so well against humans who can mount much more effective attacks, and it does get a little boring sometimes, but its nice watching anything that enters weapons range getting wiped out in moments :)

To hell with dragons teeth, build walls of missile towers instead.

Re:Not familiar with it (1)

Wyatt Earp (1029) | more than 8 years ago | (#12368457)

Not played it since I had a 800 MHz iMac with 768MB of RAM, but TA is awesome and it is the game that you can bring any machine to it's knees.

Macledge.com used to have a TA map of the week deal, got good maps from there

TA Reminiscing (3, Insightful)

Necroman (61604) | more than 8 years ago | (#12362213)

Total Annihilation was an awesome RTS type game. It was great because there were so many different units you could use and build. Plus there were tons more available units and buildings to download off the company's website and fan sites.

I just remember downloading an addon building that was a gatling gun version of a gun called "Big Bertha". It was really long range with huge destruction power. It was a great time.

Re:TA Reminiscing (1)

Asgard (60200) | more than 8 years ago | (#12362249)

The Core Contingency pack had a Buzzsaw and a Vulcan. Getting one of those was pretty much 'You Win'.

Re:TA Reminiscing (1)

Richard Steiner (1585) | more than 8 years ago | (#12362348)

Not on a bigger map like Real Earth or Australia, although you could use the fire-at-my-feet bug to fling the shots a lot further than normal and that would hit MOST points of the Australia map in a scattering fashion.

Not that I've ever used that technique, mind you...

Re:TA Reminiscing (2, Informative)

KDR_11k (778916) | more than 8 years ago | (#12362727)

Yeah, with a range of 4 and 2 kilometres, respectively. Seriously, sometimes that's less than the size of your base (and nowhere near the enemy base on 32MB and up maps), I'd rather build 3-4 Intimidators with their 8k range and actually have a chance of hitting anything. No need for that rapid firerate anyway. They are excellent base defenses but for offense you'd often need an outpost to get close enough to the target. And try building such a fragile and expensive thing this close to the enemy base...

Re:TA Reminiscing (2, Interesting)

Cecil (37810) | more than 8 years ago | (#12364765)

The Vulcan was a truly awesome weapon. Admittedly, it was slow to build and relatively fragile. It's range was not nearly as limited as you imply though, in my memory it fired at least 3/4ths as far as a Bertha.

I'll agree with you that it was an excellent base defense but not so great as an offense. For a obsessive porc like myself though, they are a dream. On large metal maps, you *need* a vulcan, if not several, to defend your base. It is absolutely unbelievable the amount of bots the AI will send at you if you give him a good 4 hours to get his base setup.

The major downfall of the vulcan was the fact that as you let it collect kills (it would generally have at least 200 after a few minutes of operation) it would be upgraded to uber-veteran status until it was pinpoint accuracy. That's nice for most units, but for the vulcan, it's massive spread was the best thing about it. I don't think I've ever had a vulcan that got over about 400 kills. It becomes nearly impossible to get the kind of widespread destruction it enjoyed in its non-veteran days. :P If that problem had been fixed somehow, I think the Vulcan would've been an indispensable unit for long games. As it stands, it's just "good". Although the satisfaction of watching it firing for extended periods of time is still worth it.

I definitely agree with you on the immense utility of Bertha/Intimidator batteries though. Not only are they reasonably quick (albeit resource intensive) to build, but as soon as the first one goes online you can start firing, you don't have to wait for them all to finish. They also take much longer to succumb to the veteran problem, since the kills are distributed across the entire array.

Personally, my favourite was when I built a battery of roughly 150 Berthas, and (this was the hard part) enough fusion plants and energy storages to power them all. A Vulcan is satisfying, but there's nothing quite like the ominous turning of 150 barrels, and then the roar of all the berthas firing simultaneously at my command. Best done after pressing 'T' to track their shots. Follow the swarm of tightly grouped little yellow plasma pellets into the enemy base, watch it as it gets literally wiped off the map.

I have yet to discover something quite as enjoyable as that in any other game.

Re:TA Reminiscing (4, Insightful)

ljaguar (245365) | more than 8 years ago | (#12365293)

Maybe I'll charm in here for all this Vulcan discussion.

Hard core people don't use Vulcan cannons. Seriously. I don't remember the math off the top of my head, but I've seen it done.

Vulcan cannons are expensive. very expensive. You can build couple of bertha/timmy (intimidator) with the same resources and you can fine tune those better. (you can turn a few of them off and what not) and real hard core players know how to take out one of those real quick so it's a big investment for nothing.

There is no such thing as impenetrable defense. I know in TA, you can get pretty hardcore defense. And one of the main strategies of playing is Porc where you build an impenetrable base and start amassing your kickass army (some prefer air, some go for tanks, some go for artilleries). This strategy sounds really good and a lot of beginner players will try to perfect this strategy.

But this strategy does not work against good players. They'll hit hard and early and prevent you from building your defenses. And it's the simple idea that the opponent had the same amount of time that you did. If you are focusing on your defenses and don't heckle your opponent, that's that much time that he had to concentrate on his armies too. And if he's better player than you, he can build his armies better than you can build your (so called impenetrable) defenses with the same amount of time/resources.

You think your fusion/timmy/vulcan/nuke/whatever are impenetrably defended and it's the shit. But good players know how to focus and take that shit out. (bombers anyone? reconnaissance?) That's why you want to diversify.

I mean if you are just getting into it or playing with non-hardcore friends, vulcans are the shits and is definitely part of the unreasonable displays of power. But if you are playing the game for real (you are considered good on online communities/rankings) you are either dead before you can finish a vulcan/ the conditions of the game will make vulcan an unworthy investment.

If I start building timmies (one by one) and you start building a vulcan, I'll have a timmy done before you finish the vulcan. I'll start shooting faster than you can. And when we both finish our project, we'll have approximately the same firepower. And I'll have better ranges too.

The point is, if you can build 150 berthas, one of several is true.

Your opponent is an idiot for letting you get that far. (stop playing the stupid computer, and play real people. Even the most advanced cheating AI on TA have weaknesses depending on the particularity of the specific map.)

You could have killed your opponent without building 150 berthas. I mean if you had that much resources and your opponent is that lax, you should have been able to kick his ass by your 10th bertha. So, as much as your opponent sucks, you don't know how to attack for shit. I mean get some ground troops and air strike force for crying out loud!

noob

This is informative.

Re:TA Reminiscing (2)

snorklewacker (836663) | more than 8 years ago | (#12366386)

The other thing that takes out berthas nicely is, of course, nukes. Yes, there's ABM's, but you can pretty well overwhelm them as well. I loved the ever-escalating arms race of TA ... I just wish it didn't stop at the small nukes, I sort of wanted it to get all the way up to real armageddon causing weapons (short of the Core Contingency weapon anyway). Gives people an incentive to wipe out the other guy, before *everything* is blown away.

Re:TA Reminiscing (2)

ljaguar (245365) | more than 8 years ago | (#12366953)

also consider krogoth part of the arms race.

it one-upps nukes; it can survive two nukes. (maybe just one. one will do about half damage. so it depends)

it's got scary ground range (short line of sight, but if you have recon, the range is truly large.) and its anti-air capabilities are unmatched.

of course, the same problem exists for krogoth as for vulcans. if you have enough resources/time to build krogoth, 1) your opponent isn't putting enough pressure on you, 2) the resource is better spent somewhere else (with more immediate results)

Re:TA Reminiscing (1)

Sigma 7 (266129) | more than 8 years ago | (#12367912)

of course, the same problem exists for krogoth as for vulcans. if you have enough resources/time to build krogoth, 1) your opponent isn't putting enough pressure on you, 2) the resource is better spent somewhere else (with more immediate results)


FYI, you can reach a stage in the game where resources are not a problem at all - build enough Moho Metal Extractors and Fustion plants, and you basically don't have to worry.

The only resource that you really need is time and unit limit space. You can cut down on time if you build enough Advanced Construction Aircraft (e.g. 20-40), and Krogoths will cut down on the unit limit.

Sure, 100000 units of metal poured into other units may be more effective than 100000 units of metal poured into a Krogoth, but 25 Krogoths are more effective than 25 other standard combat units.

(This won't be a problem with 5000 unit limit games, but that generally requires a patch.)

Re:TA Reminiscing (1)

ljaguar (245365) | more than 8 years ago | (#12369303)

No no, this is what you need to understand:

full metal is wasted metal. you should never have enough resources.

of course, the same problem exists for krogoth as for vulcans. if you have enough resources/time to build krogoth, 1) your opponent isn't putting enough pressure on you, 2) the resource is better spent somewhere else (with more immediate results)


If you ever get to a point where you have unlimited resources, they aren't putting enough pressure on you and you aren't putting enough pressure on him (ie you aren't taking full advantage of his being lenient on you).

Think about it.

TA is such a game that people love building a lot of shit of epic proportion. After all, TA is known for the excesses.

people love building crazy defenses and amassing great armies. that's why you guys leave each other alone for the large part thinking that when your great army is done, you'll crush them.

But the truth is, by the time you had enough moho and fushion to build krogoth without strain, all that resources could have gone to crushing the opponent. I'm starting to sound like a parrot, but think about all the experts' games. (you can replay recorded games) none of them ever go as far as krogoth or 150 berthas or ridiculous amounts of nukes or crazy armies of stealth fighters. The simple truth is, army/resources saved is army/resources that you held back. It's that much time that you didn't do recon and left the opponent not in check.

So it's really the first step in being good at TA; you must not hold back. For example, if you spent the resources that would have gone to krogoth in to building other units and kept sending them in droves, you would have done the same amount of damage at the end, and you would have started attacking much sooner. Even if you are sending them to their death, their death will not be wasted and you'll keep under unit limits.

same deal for great armies of stealth fighters. (my bro's fav trick). if you had sent them out in smaller groups, they'd have done just about the same damage overall but earlier in the game. and that has bigger effect on the opponent than all at once (but way later). Say you made a big army at the end and you crushed him; you won, you'll say. But i'll say, if you had attacked earlier and in smaller numbers, you'll have won earlier.

You shouldn't hold back. You don't hold back in real life.

Re:TA Reminiscing (1)

DevolvingSpud (774770) | more than 8 years ago | (#12370605)

> TA is such a game that people love building a lot of shit of epic proportion. After all, TA is known for the excesses.

That's the key bit right there. TA isn't about winning, it's about crushing your enemy under a wild excess of firepower.

You want him/her to be sitting there, with their jaw on the floor, as death pours in from all directions, with you screaming "hahahaha!" and spinning around in your chair and frightening the cats.

It's true, good players can generally wipe out someone who's "holding back", as you call it. But really, where's the fun in winning the easy way?

Re:TA Reminiscing (1)

ljaguar (245365) | more than 8 years ago | (#12375739)

because as soon as you start playing real people, your method won't work.

if you had the time to build an army, the enemy has had the time to match your army. you'll only get to utterly crush your opponent if he sucks much more than you. it's a very logical thing; if your skills are evenly matched, you won't get a chance to utterly crush them. (so stop playing the computer)

that's where strategy and finesse comes in. winning is the first step toward that whole "frightening the cats" bullshit and you'll find that holding back will be detrimental to that end.

Re:TA Reminiscing (1)

DevolvingSpud (774770) | more than 8 years ago | (#12375963)

> because as soon as you start playing real people, your method won't work

It does if the other people you're playing are of the same demented mindset. We don't like "finesse." Finesse is for French cooking and lovemaking (which bookend a good TA session nicely, by the way). Playing TA is about (metaphorically) smacking your buddy over the head with a Buick and mocking his mother while doing a little dance in the slowly congealing blood.

In summary, good players who use strategy and finesse will likely win everytime against me and my friends. But they will never know the true joy of Total Annihilation, in the Webster's sense.

Re:TA Reminiscing (1)

ljaguar (245365) | more than 8 years ago | (#12376185)

hey, as long as you are aware that you and your friends are retarded, you've taken the first step to recovery.

proud of ignorance and incompetence?

settling for mediocrity?

please reread the grandparent. it says if your opponent isn't retarded, he won't get crushed. christ, it's like the special olympics.

Re:TA Reminiscing (1)

DevolvingSpud (774770) | more than 8 years ago | (#12378323)

> hey, as long as you are aware that you and your friends are retarded, you've taken the first step to recovery.

Whoa, nelly! What's with the ad hominem attacks here! I guess I must have forgotten that this is Slashdot - where a normal conversation suddenly turns into pointless name-calling. OK, I'll play.

>please reread the grandparent. it says if your opponent isn't retarded, he won't get crushed.

I know what it says. I was actually agreeing with you, in general. I was trying to make the point that TA is a game that people play differently, and I guess my way of making it must have triggered some deep repressed feelings in you.

Let me put it another way: my friends and I, who are of roughly equal skills, enjoy the epic nature of the big, powerful units and the massive displays of firepower that come with the buildup of big nasty armies. When we used to play with people we didn't know online, we chose the more traditional tactical/strategic mix needed to win, but found it not to be as much "fun" for us. But that's the great part about TA -- it works for many different styles of play, be they games filled with finesse and strategy enough to make Machiavelli blush, or, as you so eloquently and tactfully put it, more "retarded" styles.

> christ, it's like the special olympics.

No, it's not, because you're not getting an "Everybody's A Winner" award this time. Asshat.

Re:TA Reminiscing (1)

The Tyrant (472050) | more than 8 years ago | (#12386580)

Ah if only I had mod points.

Hell! If only I had friends like yours, I want some TA playing friends who fight like that. AI's are too incompetent, most humans are too... "task orientated"... ah well, guess I'll just have to introduce more of my friends to it and see how they play :)

An excelent thread, thank you, both of you, for presenting two utterly different, and yet true and valid views, and for the most part for doing so in a polite and sensible manner.

Re:TA Reminiscing (1)

Cecil (37810) | more than 8 years ago | (#12367230)

I was gonna be nice, but you started getting personal near the end, so, whatever.

Vulcan cannons are expensive. very expensive. You can build couple of bertha/timmy (intimidator) with the same resources and you can fine tune those better.

Thank you for repeating the part of the parent's post that I was agreeing with.

But this strategy does not work against good players.

I never said it did.

I mean if you are just getting into it or playing with non-hardcore friends, vulcans are the shits and is definitely part of the unreasonable displays of power. But if you are playing the game for real (you are considered good on online communities/rankings) you are either dead before you can finish a vulcan/ the conditions of the game will make vulcan an unworthy investment.

I am not. I am a terrible player. I do not play online because I would get my ass handed to me. I have no illusions about this. Furthermore, I have zero desire to ever even *become* a 'good' player. I think it would suck all the fun out of the game for me. I *like* being a Porc. I quite enjoy fighting the AI and my non-hardcore friends, thankyouverymuch. This is the assumption the entire rest of your post is based on, and without this foundation the rest of it falls flat.

If I start building timmies (one by one) and you start building a vulcan, I'll have a timmy done before you finish the vulcan. I'll start shooting faster than you can. And when we both finish our project, we'll have approximately the same firepower. And I'll have better ranges too.

Thank you for repeating what I said, this time.

Your opponent is an idiot for letting you get that far.

Yes, that's why I play the AI, it makes it easy for me to have FUN in the game.

(stop playing the stupid computer, and play real people. Even the most advanced cheating AI on TA have weaknesses depending on the particularity of the specific map.)

No thanks, and I know.

You could have killed your opponent without building 150 berthas.

Most decidedly yes. You couldn't be more right. I had hundreds of opportunities to crush him. But then I would never have been able to build 150 berthas. Do you see where I am going with this?

Defeating the enemy player is the ultimate goal, sure, but I didn't know we were doing time trials I prefer to have fun doing it. Would you call me a shitty player if I first destroyed every single unit and building the other player had except for a single metal extractor, and then built my giant field of berthas? If that'll make you feel better, I'll do it. Just for you. But that gets a little boring, and I like to have plenty of pieces of metal flying around when I finally get to fire my array, and metal extractors just don't explode all that big, so I don't think I'll do that very often.

So, as much as your opponent sucks, you don't know how to attack for shit.

Not knowing and not doing are two very different things my friend.

I mean get some ground troops and air strike force for crying out loud!

No.

noob

... because that really added to your argument, good job.

Re:TA Reminiscing (2)

Goldberg's Pants (139800) | more than 8 years ago | (#12369525)

Good post. The poster you responded too is the exact reason I no longer play RTS' online. They believe that the destination must be reached as quickly as possible, completely ignoring the fun of the journey.

I don't think I've ever FINISHED a game of TA. (When the "Dead commander ends the game" option is off anyway.) Playing the AI, it's dragged on for hours. The game didn't end, but I had a blast. Not played the game in a couple of years, but I used to play until my aging system started creaking due to how much was going on, then quit.

Best map I ever played was the Lone Ranger map. Player at the center starts with a ton of resources, and everyone else teams against them. Fantastic. I love Starcraft, Warcraft etc... Warcraft 3 especially. But nothing matches the unbridled insanity that is TA.

Only game I'd rank up with TA is Myth II. Another game which is still going strong, thanks to Project Magma.

TA and Myth = Gaming Nirvana. Warcraft 3 is the only RTS to come close.

Re:TA Reminiscing (1)

DevolvingSpud (774770) | more than 8 years ago | (#12378444)

> Thank you for repeating what I said, this time.

He's good at that. See our branch of this thread, where I attempt to explain that my friends and I play for fun and to watch the nice pretty big units blow crap up, and he starts calling us retards.

I totally agree with you -- he's missing the point that people play the game to have fun, and fun is subjective. His way is winning as quickly and as mathematically precisely as possible. Mine, and apparently yours, is not.

For me and my cronies, LAN parties are the only way to go, so we don't have to put up with the asshats or the 133ts. Plus it lets you trash-talk and spill beer on each other, which is the only way to do it.

Re:TA Reminiscing (1)

The Tyrant (472050) | more than 8 years ago | (#12386814)

I think this applies to ALL multiplayer games really. Action Quake2 at college was so much more fun because we could take the piss out of each other verbally, and listen in to the other team working out where we were and their strategies (we had mastered the art of audio message hotkeys and headphones). Damn that was fun.

Very few online games have the same feeling, its always a case of victory above all else. There are a few highly co-operative games that come to mind. SubSpace Trench Wars for example, where without a few key specialists the whole team falls apart and looses, and of course online mmorpgs (if you have a nice friendly clan as I was fortunate enough to have). Without some stong reason to cooperate, the only reason anyone hits the talk key seems to be to badmouth their opponents, which is inherently not that much fun, especially when it was a cheap kill not worth boasting about anyway.

On the whole, I find games against AI's or on lans are played purely for fun, whereas online gamers seem to find their fun not in the game, but the victory, they could just as easily play chess or dominoes and get the same rush from victory as they do in the latest FPS with the most amazing technical innovations, all of which are wasted on the hardcore online gamer since all that matters is the kill, the victory, and the rankings.

I would say its sad, but then they would say we're sad for finding pleasure even in defeat.

Re:TA Reminiscing (1)

DevolvingSpud (774770) | more than 8 years ago | (#12394915)

Very well put. The last line in particular rocks.

The only thing I disagree with - I don't think they'd get the same pleasure out of chess etc. First, because they're not patient enough, an second because a big part of the FPS world in particular is centered around either extolling or blaming your gaming rig. For example, "I would have won if I had 3 more fps coming out of my video card, I better get more overclocking gear." In pure skill games like the ones you mentioned, you have nothing to blame for a loss but yourself.

'Course, since a lot of this stuff is moving to consoles, how are folks going to measure virtual penis size now? Better buy stock in controller companies, I guess.

Re:TA Reminiscing (1)

HaloZero (610207) | more than 8 years ago | (#12362271)

The Vulcan Cannon, many a day I remember terrorizing an enemy from across the map with that thing. Huge power requirements, though.

God I miss that game.

Re:TA Reminiscing (1)

linzeal (197905) | more than 8 years ago | (#12362293)

One of the best games I have found for playing on my laptop on trains is 2-3 year old RTS games like Total Annihilation [amazon.com] because the lush graphics do not require massive video card power to display and a scrollpad is fine for control.

Middle of the day (3, Funny)

Asgard (60200) | more than 8 years ago | (#12362214)

Why couldn't the editors wait for the evening hours; now I have to wait until quitting time to play!

Missed it too (1)

wongn (777209) | more than 8 years ago | (#12362277)

I'd heard of TA's source being loosened, but I'd missed this project as well :s. Looking at the project description on their website, I'd say that the /. description is a little misleading. They seem to imply that it isn't so much a remake as... they're using TA some of the code and units. I'm downloading as soon as I can be arsed to reboot, and will be so peeved if they using a 16 bit installer or it doesn't work on Win64.

Re:Missed it too (1)

X0563511 (793323) | more than 8 years ago | (#12362536)

Chances are you will need to use 32 bit compatibility mode. The source is available, so you can always just compile it yourself for 64 bit. Unless there is something really big between the two, I don't see why you would need to actually change anything. (but i've never used a 64 bit system, and I really don't know much about them)

Single Player (5, Informative)

dsparil (844576) | more than 8 years ago | (#12362332)

4.14 - Will TA Spring support campaigns?
No. TA Spring will only support multiplayer.

4.18 - Will there be an AI or a "skirmish" mode?
No. There is no AI or skirmish support planned.


I lost all interest after reading that.

Re:Single Player (5, Interesting)

wongn (777209) | more than 8 years ago | (#12362350)

I lost all interest after reading that.
It's quite possible that someone will be nice and make a mod for single player.

Re:Single Player (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#12386892)

Since its open source I'd love to write a GOOD tactical AI for it... the only thing TA was really lacking in is AI, and I've wanted for ages to develop a really complex in depth RTS AI, it'd be a fun challenge.

Re:Single Player (1)

NotAnotherReboot (262125) | more than 8 years ago | (#12363104)

I don't know, multiplayer was always the most fun aspect for me. Amassing gigantic numbers of planes/tanks and watching them fight it out. It's a shame that Cavedog died shortly after releasing their multiplayer match-making service (like Battle.net).

Total Annihilation had top notch multiplayer, in my opinion, and I really can't blame them for focusing their priorities on that aspect.

Re:Single Player (1)

Christopheles (803724) | more than 8 years ago | (#12366801)

Don't like other people? I understand. But it's a good thing you didn't play the original TA, you probably would have hated it, horrible AI and middling campaign.

Re:Single Player (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#12369894)

If you look at the forums you will see that an AI is being developed, the ai hooks have only recently been added so the multiplayers syetm will be completed well bedore the AI.

The Grandfather of all RTS Games (1)

KingBahamut (615285) | more than 8 years ago | (#12362410)

Still have it installed on my box at home, have all the expansion packs, Core Contingency, and Battle Tactics, plus the umpteen million 3rd party units -- Vulcan Bertha, RoboTechKrog, etc etc etc.

Played TA:K , didnt like the fantasy element, but was a fun game. Nothing like seeing the Nidehogg Dragons appear and blow over your entire city.

Its largely because of Cavedog, that I love RTSs.

Re:The Grandfather of all RTS Games (1)

Ykant (318168) | more than 8 years ago | (#12362716)

Is there still anywhere out there to get a game together? I don't recall the gamefinder that was used before (was it GameSpy??), but I'm sure that's over now...

Re:The Grandfather of all RTS Games (1)

KingBahamut (615285) | more than 8 years ago | (#12363021)

My Clan still hosts games from time to time. If your interested drop me a mail, and Ill put you in the right direction.

Re:The Grandfather of all RTS Games (1)

drxray (839725) | more than 8 years ago | (#12363126)

You can use MSN gaming zone.

Last time I tried it online (years ago) I got the floor wiped with me, I suspect anyone still playing it would be scarily good. Better to talk some friends into a game.

Phoenix Worx (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#12366596)

If you feel the need to play good old TA online again:
http://www.phoenixworx.org/downloads/clien t.asp

Made by TA fans, for TA fans, it's like Boneyard reborn from its ashes.

RTS (3, Funny)

MyLongNickName (822545) | more than 8 years ago | (#12362414)

I didn't know what RTS was, and I couldn't follow the link (company policy blocked site). So I did what any intelligent person would do. I Googled it.

Turns out RTS is Royal Televison Society.

This was a public service announcement. Please mod insightful.

Maybe it's just me, but (0, Offtopic)

mkavanagh2 (776662) | more than 8 years ago | (#12362423)

Red Alert. The original.

Tesla? Fuck yeah.

Re:Maybe it's just me, but (1)

mkavanagh2 (776662) | more than 8 years ago | (#12362855)

And now remembering to add relevance to this post, my point: I am waiting patiently and naively for FreeCNC http://freecnc.sf.net/ [sf.net] to have stable, fully functional multiplayer for Red Alert.

Re:Maybe it's just me, but (1)

superpulpsicle (533373) | more than 8 years ago | (#12365941)

Redalert was superb. Then TA came out, the audience was chopped to half. When Westwood was bought out by EA, that was the end of the series.

Obelisk of Light (1)

Gamelore (570005) | more than 8 years ago | (#12362938)

How could you forget the Obelisk of FUCKING Light from the original C&C?

Tesla was just a cheap immitation.

hummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmMMMMMMMM MMMMMMMMM

ZOWIE!

*horrifying scream of death*

Re:Obelisk of Light (1)

mkavanagh2 (776662) | more than 8 years ago | (#12363129)

All glory to the obelisk of light, but I forgot it because the rest of Red Alert vastly outshines the original C*C.

Massive amphibious landings?

A hundred Yaks converging on the ememy construction yard, spraying bullets till the ground crunches with lead underfoot, then retreating from whence they came?

Huge fleets supported by cruisers?

A tesla-flanked heavily mined gauntlet of death for a famous last stand?

Just for the quirkyness, breaking down a few trees to form an unexpected attack route?

Nuclear missiles?

All of the above?

Hell yes.

Re:Obelisk of Light (2, Funny)

Richard Steiner (1585) | more than 8 years ago | (#12363179)

There's an Obelisk of Light in the Stormbots mod for Tribes 1. I corrected it in my own hacked version so it would take a heavy in full health down to one red pixel in a single shot at around 800 meters or so.

"Here I go, Heavy O! I wonder what's over this ridgZZZZZZZTTTTT!!!"

"Uh. Medic!!"

Re:Maybe it's just me, but (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#12366416)

Tesla shmesla. Nothing says crowd control like a buzzsaw, or a nice nuke.

Re:Maybe it's just me, but (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#12366542)

There's at least 3 TA mods to get C&C and RA looking units into Total Annihilation.
http://wormhole.tauniverse.com/down loads/ta/cnc/
http://unlimited.tauniverse.com/cnc units.htm
http://www.rakrent.com/rtsc/files/ta/CC RA_BETA_1-6 -EAI.zip

Note: Spring currently don't support TA mods very well, you'll probably lack the texture, if it works at all.

And WINE (3, Informative)

MoogMan (442253) | more than 8 years ago | (#12362635)

While the game is currently win32 only,

It also works under WINE, it seems :)

Re:And WINE (1)

Atzanteol (99067) | more than 8 years ago | (#12364586)

You wouldn't kid about that would you? :-)

I'm gonna have to grab this when I get home. I've still go the original installed on an old Windows box, but my only 'wothy' machines for this new one run Linux. Now if only they had the soundtrack from the original (best game score ever!)...

Re:And WINE (1)

MoogMan (442253) | more than 8 years ago | (#12366167)

Of course not. Works with current CVS (and I suspect the latest release). There is no soundtrack (or /sounds/ directory), so it will complain about no sound.

Otherwise it works perfectly in Wine with no modification (and graphics jacked to full :-))

Problem with open source (1, Flamebait)

NessusRed (710227) | more than 8 years ago | (#12363095)

This release addresses another problem with Open Source idealogoly. These guys could have developed a brand new gamebut instead just mimiced an existing idea. This is everywhere in the Open Source community, Open Office is just a clone of Microsoft Office, Lindows is just a clone of Windows, FreeCiv is a clone of Cilivization, the list goes on and on. Open source developers are like animals. Devoid of any intelligence, unable to create just emulate.

Re:Problem with open source (1)

renrutal (872592) | more than 8 years ago | (#12365597)

Wow, I thought it was the other way around. Most of the Microsoft Office features weren't originally developed by Microsoft. Windows itself is a ripoff of other OSes. BTW, it isn't an Open Source idealogy, it's the world nature, mimic the best features, adapt and evolve; repeat while TRUE. If you don't agree, please develop your own genes and back the ones you took from yours ancestors. The made Spring not to be a copy of TA, but as an form to evolve an game the community loves.

Re:Problem with open source (1)

patio11 (857072) | more than 8 years ago | (#12368460)

The problem as I see it isn't that this was inspired by TA. It *is* TA. Down to the art resources. There is another project on SourceForge for an OSS "port" of Microsoft Transport Tycoon... which will only run if you have the original CD (or, ahem, steal it) to grab their art resources. Now, I'm all for OSS gaming, but for it to evolve it needs to develop a bloody infrastructure which can do more than clone a successful commercial release, lift their art resources, and then start doing balance tweaks. We had moddable software already to make balance tweaks on top of a commercial game (TA allowed 3rd party addons out of the box!), we need something more. You want to create something inspired by a closed-source commercial game, go right ahead. Write a SNES-style overhead perspective sprite-based RPG with totally original art (as original as you can make dungeon tiles, anyhow), story, characters, and a play system which is 90% derivative plus one unique trick. That would be a triumph for OSS gaming in its present state (how sad it is to say that), if it was actually fun to play.

Re:Problem with open source (1)

Pxtl (151020) | more than 8 years ago | (#12369210)

The creators have various reasons for this. First and foremost, the fact that its a lot of work to make all those units - more than just Cavedog's content, this also gives them access to all the TA mods.

The Spring guys have said their ultimate goal is a new RTS "inspired" by TA, and that this is an interrim step - full TA content support so that TA players can use their engine for a modern port.

Windows == VMS (0, Flamebait)

RedLaggedTeut (216304) | more than 8 years ago | (#12369177)

And Windows is a VMS clone. Gates just had the genius to change slashes to backslashes to avoid lawsuits and also make sure his OS was incompatible to the original.

Just choose the next letter in the alphabet
V=>W
M=>N
S=>T
and you get Windows NT.

And you are the clone of your father.
In your own words:
Like an animal. Devoid of any intelligence, unable to create just emulate.

Spring (4, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#12363769)

I am a dev on the team, JouninKomiko. There IS a skirmish AI planned, in fact I am working on it now. There is no TA code in this, just a use of the original TA content until the community remakes the units and scripts to make this standalone. Our FAQ guy stopped updating long ago for some reason.

ATTENTION!! (4, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#12363870)

The game sent along the Spring engine is NOT original TA. It's a mod called XTA, also created by the Swedish Yankspankers. The mod's purpose is to drastically change the balancing and gameplay. If you want to play with Original TA, you better fetch yourself the OTA patch [fileuniverse.com] . This is, btw, Storm.

gawd I luv TA (2, Informative)

bonezed (187343) | more than 8 years ago | (#12367266)

these days I play the Absolute Annihilation mod
http://www.planetannihilation.com/aa/

lots of extra units, patches and balancing makes it the best mod

I love TA (1)

MatW (842555) | more than 8 years ago | (#12367510)

One of the more revolutionary real time strategy games in my opinion. The game was in 3-d and boasted realistic physics to boot. It was ahead of its time, I'm looking forward to playing it again for hours.

Played It (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#12368434)

I just tried it out. It's a lot of fun, 3rd person is very very similar to the original TA. 1st person is a great addition, as is the ability to zoom out until you can see the whole map.

Finding a game was a bit of a problem though. Users behind firewalls or routers will likely encounter a lot of difficulty hosting games. When someone who's hasn't set up their network to properly host a game tries to create one, it will appear on the server list but users who join it will have their game hang for 20 seconds or even crash. 80% games seem to be created by people who don't realize they can't host. The multiplayer lobby definitely needs a lot of work.

New Chris Taylor game coming (3, Informative)

fleabait (836025) | more than 8 years ago | (#12368634)

I have to say TA:Spring looks very impressive in its own right, but I can't help but bring up this:

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_zd1up/is _200403/ai_ziff122201 [findarticles.com]

Gas Powered Games is making a new RTS. Of course not a sequel to TA, but could be very interesting.

For a little background, Chris Taylor is the man credited with creating Total Annihilation. However he left Cavedog to start up Gas Powered Games some time before Cavedog produced TA:Kingdoms and subsequently went under.

TA #1 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#12375121)

The bum at the grocery store said TA was #1 too...

StarCraft 4 life!

Orgasmotron !!! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#12388082)

Downloading now!!!
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