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Azureus Decentralizes Bittorrent

timothy posted more than 8 years ago | from the infinite-onion-rings dept.

The Internet 672

BobPaul writes "While the eXeem project to decentralize Bittorrent remains in open beta, the Azureus Java Bittorrent project has recently released a major update that, among other things offers 'a distributed, decentralised database that can be used to track decentralised torrents. This permits both "trackerless" torrents and the maintenance of swarms where the tracker has become unavailable or where the torrent was removed from the tracker.' It doesn't contain the search functionality of eXeem, but it's also not a beta product and is licensed under the GPL. Could this and compatible clients be the replacement to SuprNova and Lokitorrents, or does the lack of search negate its effectiveness?"

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672 comments

A step in the right direction... (4, Interesting)

Lostie (772712) | more than 8 years ago | (#12418127)

... but the RIAA/MPAA lawyer teams don't need to start hiring again just yet.

does the lack of search negate its effectiveness?

I'd say it "limits" it's effectiveness, not negates it. It's not really de-centralized if you still have to rely on sites like suprnova in order to search for stuff, is it? This is a major reason why BitTorrent hasn't completely dominated eMule yet.
But since this removes another potential point of failure in the network (the tracker), it is still a good thing(tm).

Re:A step in the right direction... (5, Insightful)

DenDave (700621) | more than 8 years ago | (#12418146)

A pity these technologies always end up being dissed as being "vehicles of sin" ... I actually hope it works... I download alot of Linux/bsd isos and it's a pain sometimes because of poor mirrors and shitty trackers, however if these swarms appear upon a new release then it makes sense to start downloading during the swarm as opposed to waiting for the rush to pass.

Re:A step in the right direction... (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#12418189)

Be realistic. Yeah, Bittorrent has plenty of legit uses. But do you really think that's what most people use it for? I'd say most are looking for porn, movies, software, etc. Look at it this way, guns can be used to hunt for food. But the truth is, 99% of gun use is against people. You can argue about their legitmate use and bad rap 'till you're blue in the face, but the legitmate uses are statistically outweighed by bad ones. The same applies to Bittorrent.

Re:A step in the right direction... (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#12418214)

Uh. So what's your point? I've got several perfectly legal guns mainly acquired to be used against people who threaten me or my loved ones.

What? (0, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#12418226)

Why is that modded flamebait? A post with no vulgar language and a well though out allegory is flamebait? I think whoever got mod points needs learn how to think objectively.
I can only imagine...
"OMG, PEOPLE USE BITTORRENT TO PIRATE!1!1! LIES!!1! -1, FLAMEBAIT!!@!@U!(@"

Re:What? (2, Insightful)

xtracto (837672) | more than 8 years ago | (#12418243)

Be realistic. Yeah, Bittorrent has plenty of legit uses. But do you really think that's what most people use it for? I'd say most are looking for porn, movies, software, etc. Look at it this way, guns can be used to hunt for food. But the truth is, 99% of gun use is against people. You can argue about their legitimate use and bad rap 'till you're blue in the face, but the legitimate uses are statistically outweighed by bad ones. The same applies to Bittorrent.

I agree with Parent, why do /. mods always mod down any p2p software critics? It is supposed to be an open forum! too bad I just used 5 mod points if not I would have modded up GP... INSIGHTFUL, maybe you do not like it but, it has some truth.

Why? Because "the spice must flow" (0, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#12418262)

Or more appropriately: warez must flow.

Re:A step in the right direction... (0, Offtopic)

csjavi (691714) | more than 8 years ago | (#12418459)

Look at it this way, guns can be used to hunt for food. But the truth is, 99% of gun use is against people.

Would you mind giving a reference to that stat? I find it hard to believe.

Re:A step in the right direction... (5, Insightful)

dbretton (242493) | more than 8 years ago | (#12418501)

But the truth is, 99% of gun use is against people.

The truth is, you are a liar and a child molestor and you eat babies. How do I know this? I don't, but, like you, I will assert it to be true without providing any supporting information.

Though I cannot refute your assertion with solid numbers (as the only info I can find is either procured by pro-gun nuts or anti-gun nuts), I can refute it with simple logic.

The local rod & gun club gets about 50 people per day, averaged out across a seven day week. The reality is that most of the business is on the weekend, but an average is sufficient for this exercise.
Using your statistic, that means that, in my town alone, there would need to be 5000 shootings DAILY.

Let's assume the traffic at my local club is average. Since there are approximately 10000 US cities (link [google.com]), even if only 50% had a rod & gun club, that would mean there would be 250,000 recreational gun uses each day. Assuming this is the 0.01 minority, this means that there would have to be 25 million gun shootings in the US each day. Each year, every one in the US would have been shot... twelve times.

Now, getting back to BitTorrent. I would tend to agree that BitTorrent is analagous to gun use in that its primary use is recreational in nature. The difference here, however, is that BitTorrent's recreational use is more likely to be illegal in nature than not.

Re:A step in the right direction... (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#12418160)

This is a major reason why BitTorrent hasn't completely dominated eMule yet.

just a side note...i heard that bt traffic is over 50% of all the internet's traffic.....or does did it meant p2p traffic is over 50% of all the internet's traffic?

Re:A step in the right direction... (1)

tnhtnh (870708) | more than 8 years ago | (#12418177)

Whats the point of having a distributed database if you cannot search it? Exeem is the way to go until RIAA shut it down...

Re:A step in the right direction... (5, Insightful)

shird (566377) | more than 8 years ago | (#12418346)

Which you have to ask, why not just use emule/edonkey network?

Before you say 'wah wah bit torrent is faster', etc, it is only like that because it is centralised and so a tracker can make sure everyone is seeding, there are statistics which encourage people to seed, and most importantly, there are far less files, and so the bandwidth isnt spread out as thinly.

The more these guys work on decentralising BT, the closer you get to just being a less efficient and less established clone of emule. Whats the point?

As far as 'warezing' is concerned (99% of traffic), BT is a terrible protocol. The trouble is, these kids see the speed of BT and think thats the way to go. They realise the centralisation is a problem, and so try to fix that. Without realising they are just reinventing the wheel. They think they are going to get the best of both worlds, because they are just warezing kids and don't know any better.

How is eMule... (1)

Kjella (173770) | more than 8 years ago | (#12418448)

As far as 'warezing' is concerned (99% of traffic), BT is a terrible protocol. The trouble is, these kids see the speed of BT and think thats the way to go. They realise the centralisation is a problem, and so try to fix that. Without realising they are just reinventing the wheel. They think they are going to get the best of both worlds, because they are just warezing kids and don't know any better.

How is eMule any better? It certainly doesn't protect your anonymity. The eMule server acts in much the same role as the BT server, except the speeds are better on BT. Remove the tracker, and you got a "flash mob" of peers. Each dumpsite could just point to one member of the swarm, making it ten or a hundred targets instead of one lone tracker. BT has always been about security in numbers, except the users have been many and the sites many, but the tracker only one. How do you stop a hundred sites giving a hundred leads to a swarm of thousands of users? You simply don't.

Kjella

Re:A step in the right direction... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#12418425)

I'm just glad I got here early, before the Torrent of comments...

Re:A step in the right direction... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#12418488)

"This is a major reason why BitTorrent hasn't completely dominated eMule yet."

so, according to you, accounting for 70% of all internet bandwidth isn't "dominating" enough?

HEY TIMOTHY! SHUT THE BLOODY FUCK UP ASSHOLE! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#12418131)


GET TACO'S COCK OUT OF YOUR ASS AND PUT IT BACK IN YOUR MOUTH!

# o reply to other people's comments instead of starting new threads. # Read other people's messages before posting your own to avoid simply duplicating what has already been said. # Use a clear subject that describes what your message is about. # Offtopic, Inflammatory, Inappropriate, Illegal, or Offensive comments might be moderated. (You can read everything, even moderated posts, by adjusting your threshold on the User Preferences Page) # If you want re

Torrent distribution (4, Informative)

Joakim A (313708) | more than 8 years ago | (#12418150)

Torrents could be distributed in the swarms too. Possibly according to user preferences if the swarm has many torrents/many types of data. Could get really nice. We do need a python version though..

(Cant access the linked sites due to company policy (they allow /. :) so i don't know if this is supported.)

Re:Torrent distribution (4, Interesting)

Errtu76 (776778) | more than 8 years ago | (#12418169)

We do need a python version though..

No we don't. This (java) version works perfectly already. Why does this _need_ to be ported?

Re:Torrent distribution (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#12418228)

I know that JIT compiling can be a very good thing for the speed of a program and Azureus is a very fast program, but Azureus killed all my computers by the RAM it needs: 512MB is almost not enough for Azureus and this is why I don't use it anymore.

Re:Torrent distribution (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#12418238)

Look at the screenshots: Azureus has an IRC client embedded! This is where I draw the line and say that this program is seriously bloated.

Re:Torrent distribution (5, Insightful)

JanneM (7445) | more than 8 years ago | (#12418256)

No we don't. This (java) version works perfectly already. Why does this _need_ to be ported?

It doesn't _need_ to be ported. There are at least two possible reasons to do so anyhow, one "moral", one pragmatic:

* It's difficult to distribute the Java runtime environment for some Linux distributions due to licensing issues. That means that for some of the most popular distros, installing Azureus is decidedly non-trivial for someone that's not fairly familiar with non-standard installation.

* If you are using no other Java app on the system (I don't), the footprint of Azureus + JavaVM is very sizeable. Having something run under a VM that's in use anyhow makes the app use much less resources.

Bonus reasons is that more alternative clients will shake out bugs and issues with the system, and will encourage further experimentation and exploration of the system and the UI.

At the same time, porting it (or reimplementing in another client) takes away exactly zero from the Azureus developers or users. It's a win-win situation.

Re:Torrent distribution (1)

Errtu76 (776778) | more than 8 years ago | (#12418289)

I don't quite agree with you on the java issue. I mean, jre from sun/java.com comes as an installer that only requires you to ./run-it and follow instructions. True about the distro's and licensing. That's why Gentoo prompted me with an url where i should download it (manually). Even for newbies this should be doable.

Newbs can't download or install anything (2, Funny)

Safety Cap (253500) | more than 8 years ago | (#12418321)

That's why Gentoo prompted me with an url where i should download it (manually). Even for newbies this should be doable.

You obviously have neither parents nor an Uncle Bob who "knows computers" but who is always ringing you up for advise.

Re:Newbs can't download or install anything (2, Insightful)

willdenniss (707714) | more than 8 years ago | (#12418446)

You obviously have neither parents nor an Uncle Bob who "knows computers" but who is always ringing you up for advise.

I do, several.

None however run Linux, (nor use bittorrent). With OS X, Java is already there. With Windows it is really simple to install. Will.

Re:Newbs can't download or install anything (1)

richieb (3277) | more than 8 years ago | (#12418455)

You obviously have neither parents nor an Uncle Bob who "knows computers" but who is always ringing you up for advise.

Do your parents or Uncle Bob really need BitTorrent? :)

Re:Torrent distribution (3, Insightful)

JanneM (7445) | more than 8 years ago | (#12418379)

"only ./run-it" is enough to bring most people to a screeching halt. Not to mention you first have to figure out that you need something named Java, that you get it from Sun's website and then figure out on that site what you are supposed to download (which really isn't trivial even if you do know what you are doing - is it EE, RE or DE? Do I need stuff like JavaBeans?).

For all intents and purposes, if it can't be pulled down and installed automatically as part of the application install process, that precludes the use by the large majority of users.

Re:Torrent distribution (1)

Dot.Com.CEO (624226) | more than 8 years ago | (#12418419)

This is really a non-issue, on most distributions Java is either included or easily installable through the distributions tools.

If your distribution limits your choices according to some religious view of software you might not share, then change distribution.

Re:Torrent distribution (1)

willdenniss (707714) | more than 8 years ago | (#12418464)

But, doesn't python run though a VM too? That really voids the argument that it should be ported to Python for that reason?

Really, I don't think it matters. The portability for me (I use OS X, Linux and Winodws) makes the small cost of a VM well worth it.

Will.

Re:Torrent distribution (2, Informative)

afd8856 (700296) | more than 8 years ago | (#12418308)

Because it needs X to run. I want to run it remote, in console version.

Re:Torrent distribution (3, Informative)

golgotha007 (62687) | more than 8 years ago | (#12418458)

ALthough Azureus is one of the better java written applications I've used, it still feels like java.

Everything updates just a little slow. You can be downloading via torrent something and have like 18%.
Then, go to another workspace and then later when I click back onto the Azureus workspace, it still shows 18% for about a second, then bam, all the values update. It's not my machine (p4,3.0ghz, gig ram).

Azureus, as an application, totally rules. It would be excellent in C or even python.

Re:Torrent distribution (1)

l3v1 (787564) | more than 8 years ago | (#12418347)

We do need a python version though.

Oh please, why that ? I have not much against py but I do have against py-written apps. I had so much trouble with such apps, that I avoid anything related to it if I can. You can call this FUD spreading, but that was not my intention, it just what happened. If you want so much to port the stuff, make it c+gtk or c+qt or c# based, it still would be multi-platform. I don't have anything against the java client, still, I always used other torrent clients (like bitcomet) because of speed and/or stability.

Downloaded using these new torrents (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#12418152)

Bad Pirates
Whatcha want, watcha want
Whatcha gonna do
When sheriff RIAA come for you
Tell me
Whatcha gonna do, whatcha gonna dooo
Yeaheah

CHORUS:
Bad Pirates, bad Pirates
Whatcha gonna do, whatcha gonna do
When the RIAA come for you
(Repeat)

When you were twenty
And you had bad traits
You go to College
And learn the golden rule
So why are you
Acting like a bloody fool
If you get hot torrents
You must get cool

CHORUS

you deserve a (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#12418205)

big fat cock up your arse

Re:you deserve a (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#12418224)

One would think that a flaming turdburglar like you would know how to spell A-S-S...

Fuggin Wanker (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#12418307)

Stupid pig americano; these colours don't run...the world.

Re:Downloaded using these new torrents (-1)

meringuoid (568297) | more than 8 years ago | (#12418240)

Ooh, that's good. Right, filking time...

Downloader man, where will you run to?
Downloader man, where will you run to?
Downloader man, where will you run to?
All on that day.

Run to the web, web sites supply me!
Run to the web, web sites supply me!
Run to the web, web sites supply me!
All on that day.

Downloader man, site's 404ing
Downloader man, site's 404ing
Downloader man, site's 404ing
All on that day.

Run to P2P, fast central server
Run to P2P, fast central server
Run to P2P, fast central server
All on that day.

Downloader man, it was sued by Metallica
Downloader man, it was sued by Metallica
Downloader man, it was sued by Metallica
All on that day.

Run to Kazaa, no single point of failure
Run to Kazaa, no single point of failure
Run to Kazaa, no single point of failure
Run to Kazaa, no single point of failure

Downloader man, it's all full of junk files
Downloader man, it's all full of junk files
Downloader man, it's all full of junk files
All on that day.

Downloader man, decentralise the torrents
Downloader man, decentralise the torrents
Downloader man, decentralise the torrents
All on that day!

Pardon me, sir... (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#12418440)

Could you point me to the Department of Redundancy Department?

Re:Downloaded using these new torrents (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#12418241)

Dude, what did you change like two words, a least TRY next time, sheesh:

When you were eight and you had bad traits
You'de Bitchx 6667 and say 'RIAA suxor mate!'
You ask 'why they messing wif me d00d'
My daddies a politician so I can't be sued

Bad pirates, bad pirates. Watcha gonna do? Whatcha gonna do when they come for you?
Bad pirates, bad pirates. Watcha gonna do? Whatcha gonna do when they come for you?

Nobody naw give you no break
ARRR I-A-A naw give you no break
0-Day freaks naw give you no break
Not even you own crew naw give you no break

Hey, hey...

Re:Downloaded using these new torrents (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#12418258)

Hey these posts need to be done quick.
No time to think to much about it.

Sorry.

This is great (0, Redundant)

giginger (825703) | more than 8 years ago | (#12418154)

I hate when I stop a torrent, because I need to use my connection for something else, and I go to start it again and the tracker is down. Unless I'm mistaken surely this means this sort of thing won't happen much anymore?

Using it now (5, Interesting)

fgl (792403) | more than 8 years ago | (#12418155)

After upgrading a few hours ago, I opened up the appropriate UDP prts as requested (pol;itely I might add) & watched the number of clients that I was trackerlessly connected to rise from ~50,000 ot more than 76,000
I've used it for a long time now, but the latest itteration just seems to go beyond the call of duty.

Re:Using it now (3, Interesting)

Handpaper (566373) | more than 8 years ago | (#12418201)

Is this a 'visible hosts' number or do you actually have 76000 open sockets?
I'd love to see Win95/98 try to handle that :)
Waiting for netstat to finish it's output could be fun, too.

Re:Using it now (3, Informative)

willdenniss (707714) | more than 8 years ago | (#12418489)

It's UDP so there's no sockets anyway. Datagrams are connectionless and have far less overheads.

76,000 would still kill most apps though...

Will.

can you help ? (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#12418162)


my friends made a round peg to fit into a round hole but my problem is i need a square peg to fit into a round hole, perhaps the FOSS comunity could help ?, they seem to have a lot of success in this field

Why not ANts? (5, Interesting)

Nehle (784297) | more than 8 years ago | (#12418165)

This kind of thing is not new ANts P2P [sf.net] is a decentralized, encrypted anonymous protocol that works in the same way as BitTorrent. From the page "ANts P2P realizes a third generation P2P net. It protects your privacy while you are connected and makes you not trackable, hiding your identity (ip) and crypting everything you are sending/receiving from others." Why not give that a try?

Completely different market (4, Insightful)

Kjella (173770) | more than 8 years ago | (#12418348)

BT is not anonymous, nor are these attempts at decentralizing BT. They are simply a match-making service pairing off peers. Ants (and Freenet+++) try to create an anonymous network, which means acting as data proxies.

That means
a) helluva lot more complexity in terms of making it work
b) lots of complexity in making it actually anonymous
c) massive loss of bandwidth due to proxying data around

Judging by the website:
"NOTE: The only way to speed up the ANts connection system is to let the net grow. Only with a reasonable number of high speed peers (i.e. peers that handles up to 30 connections) properly configured (firewall, ip etc.) initial connection can be easy and fast. So don't care about connection speed by now... let your node run and it will find peers or they will find it! DON't ASK TOO MUCH TO A NET MADE UP OF 20/30 peers..."

I call shenanigans. The demand will scale with the supply, in fact you start running into MORE problems with finding content on a large network, not less. See Freenet. Oh, and I hope the actual number of nodes is higher. With that few, you can map out the entire network and analyze it apart almost no matter how brilliant the software is...

Kjella

Distributed Bloat (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#12418166)

You need a distributed system just to RUN Azureus. That thing needs more memory than any one computer can have.

Re:Distributed Bloat (1)

un1xl0ser (575642) | more than 8 years ago | (#12418343)

I'll take this troll, gentlemen.

I run azurus with a P3 500 w/ 168 MB RAM. I use it for lots of other thigngs too. I notice when it sucks up bandwith, but not resources.

Kind of been done... (3, Informative)

Gilesx (525831) | more than 8 years ago | (#12418173)

This is a little like Shareaza.

Shareaza has support for Gnutella, Gnutella 2, Edonkey and Bittorrent. As it provides a "bridge" between these networks, it means I am able to search for torrents from the two Gnutella networks, and edk. When I have this torrent, I can open it using the bittorrent part of Shareaza, and if that torrent is down, Shareaza will still hash the torrent and attempt to download the appropriate files from the Gnutella and eDonkey neworks. It's a nice idea, and really unites all the various p2p methods, using each method's strength to give an all round solid result.

I'm surprised that it's taken Azureus this long to catch up, and I'm sure we'll start to see a lot more bittorrent clients either offering their own solutions to this issue, or as in the case of Shareaza, using existing p2p networks to give backup to the Bittorrent protocol.

Re:Kind of been done... (0)

I(rispee_I(reme (310391) | more than 8 years ago | (#12418249)

It's too bad that Shareaza is so unstable that it rarely stays up long enough to download a BitTorrent -size file.

Re:Kind of been done... (1)

Gilesx (525831) | more than 8 years ago | (#12418272)

It's been rock solid for me using Foresight Linux + Wine - 72 hours so far and counting :)

Perhaps the stability issues are related more to the operating system it's used on, and how that operating system handles network sockets?

Re:Kind of been done... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#12418279)

I think your point about Shareaza being a nice idea providing access to several P2P networks is right. In practice though, Shareaza doesn't play well with most of the torrents I have thrown at it. Azureus is like some kind of steroid fueled monster in comparison and always gets me the iso I want quickly. I stopped using Shareaza only a couple of weeks ago... after sticking with it in the vain hope it would become a useable application over the course of the last year. Shareaza failed to impress me. Azureus impresses me on a regular basis.

Re:Kind of been done... (1)

moonbender (547943) | more than 8 years ago | (#12418345)

I'm surprised that it's taken Azureus this long to catch up, ...

Catch up? You don't seem to understand what the new features in Azureus are. From what I can see, they are nothing like what you mention. Different solutions for different problems.

Azureus is fast (5, Interesting)

illtron (722358) | more than 8 years ago | (#12418176)

I gained a lot of respect for Java apps when I tried Azureus for the first time. It was at least 6-7x faster than the official client or Tomato Torrent on OS X, and it connects to way more hosts for me. Like I said, I'm on OS X, so I've never tried exeem.

Making it easier to get to torrents is all well and good, but let's keep in mind that most of the *legal* stuff available through bittorrent is easy to find as it is.

Runs.. (-1, Troll)

IndiepoprockJesse (867553) | more than 8 years ago | (#12418179)

Good thing, too bad that Azureus runs like shit on my computer.. it feels like java haha.. also a good thing to search inside your program rather than on websites which get shut down all the time..

Re:Runs.. (0, Troll)

Tomfrh (719891) | more than 8 years ago | (#12418220)

You probably need the new Java files...

Before I upgraded java, Azureas took like 95% CPU when doing nothing.

Re:Runs.. (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#12418353)

What's /. coming to? IndiepoprockJesse? Are then nerds losing sway? Who, or what, is next? 1337hax0rb0i? cutegurl4u? SWEETSEXYBITCH?
*stalks away*

Trackerless & bittorrent sites with login (3, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#12418181)

How will the trackerless stuff interact with sites that require login? In the normal case you would login to the website and after that the tracker only allows you to connect from the same IP, but does the new trackerless thingie allow anyone to connect to these swarms? Might be (way too) good way to get past share ratio requirements.

Lack of search... (5, Insightful)

Aragorn992 (740050) | more than 8 years ago | (#12418183)

" or does the lack of search negate its effectiveness?"

No the lack of search is exactly what differentiates the BitTorrent network (though its not really a network is it? It piggy backs off webservers) from other P2P apps.

This is not anything new. (5, Informative)

solidox (650158) | more than 8 years ago | (#12418185)

The bittorrent client BitComet has been doing this for a long time now.
Simply what it does is shares lists of peers between clients for matching infohashes...
It dosn't nessecerely decentralize it or remove the need for a tracker, as you need to get at least 1 ip from a member of the swarm (who has a compatible client)
It can help to get new peers if a tracker fails half way through, but you still need the initial peers ips from a tracker or similar.

Re:This is not anything new. (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#12418378)

Except that BitComet is a closed source windows only c++ application.

Re:This is not anything new. (1)

willdenniss (707714) | more than 8 years ago | (#12418509)

Azureus has been doing this as well. But, no tracker means you can't JOIN a swarm. This means that it will slowly die unles the tracker returns sometimes. I believe this change will eliminate this problem.

Will.

Tor (5, Interesting)

natrius (642724) | more than 8 years ago | (#12418190)

It also looks like they integrated Tor into the client, which should lead to fairly interesting results. When a client as popular as Azureus has anonymity built in, I think some people might be angry.

When the **AA see an IP address downloading from an infringing torrent, they direct their lawsuits towards the account holder for that IP. This puts people running Tor at risk of being sued. Is "It wasn't me, it was another Tor user" a valid defense? Are people going to be held accountable for the traffic that passes through their Tor server?

Satan made me do it (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#12418312)

I'd go for the "Satan made me do it! Ooooh yes! It was the Priince of Lies!" defence. It might work in contemporary America.

Re:Tor (3, Informative)

moonbender (547943) | more than 8 years ago | (#12418383)

Oh. The Tor guys won't like that. People figured out how to run BT over Tor a while ago (I tried it myself in January after seeing a presentation on Tor). Google for anonbt and you end up on a subsection [sourceforge.net] of the Azureus homepage, saying:
Please *DO NOT* use Tor for routing peer-to-peer data traffic, it can not handle the bandwidth. They have indicated that they will make efforts to ban such usage if it continues, which will likely affect both legitimate and unwanted use!

Re:Tor (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#12418384)

Actually that is exactly what TOR is for. There is no way(except sophisticated traffic analysis) to prove what traffic is yours. This should stand up in court, as TOR just routes encrypted traffic. The EFF actually runs their own TOR onion router, and I wouldn't be surprised if they got involved in any sort of lawsuits involving TOR. Although, as soon as the dopes in Congress and the whitehouse understand this technology, and get lobbied by the RIAA, it may not be legal for long.

Re:Tor (1)

Aioth (870942) | more than 8 years ago | (#12418413)

Well, I'm sure the RIAA isn't going to be suing any major infrastructure providers in the near future, but one would wonder if Tor falls under the same category. Willingful ignorance isn't a very strong legal defence.

Google says... (0, Offtopic)

Froe (880425) | more than 8 years ago | (#12418196)

BitTorrent is the... result of unscrupulous and corrupt people in the same way that radio frequencies can be.

Google Talk [relet.net]

Sounds Clever (1)

Digital Warfare (746982) | more than 8 years ago | (#12418223)

I've been impressed with the App since I started using it a couple of weeks ago, it seems to find a lot more sources than anything else.
I guee now it'll just find more ! Unless it connects directly to the RIAA ?

Bitcomet problem? (1)

forand (530402) | more than 8 years ago | (#12418245)

Isn't this the same feature that has been getting Bitcomet clients banned from various trackers?

Not only BitComet but CometCursor too (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#12418281)

I've been having some weird trouble with CometCursor too and I was told it was da bomb.

Although BitTorrent is legal, (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#12418259)

the stuff that was on Suprnova and Lokitorrents was NOT. Please don't mention illegal things on a "work safe" site like this!!

Re:Although BitTorrent is legal, (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#12418274)

Work safe? Here's one guy's story [seejulie.com] about how work safe /. really is...

Shocking, really. The guy, a subscriber no less, went through all that trouble only to get bitched at by Michael.

JPC (5, Interesting)

Dakisha (526733) | more than 8 years ago | (#12418320)

I was also interested to see they included 'Joltid Peer Cache (JPC)' - in their words "Joltid Peer Cache (JPC) is now integrated into Azureus. For users whose ISP support this, JPC should allow faster downloads, while helping the ISP reduce its bandwidth costs. The JPC Plugin is safe in the way that your ISP won't know what you are downloading, and can't use it to spy on you."

Given that torrents are supposed to account from anywhere between 30-70% of all internet traffic, depending on who you believe - this could go a long way towards easing bandwidth consumption issues. Of course, I have no idea how many ISPs are actually using this, the website http://www.joltid.com/index.php/peercache/ [joltid.com] is rather limited in it's information, and a google for the name reveals that there is still some question over the legality, so a lot of ISPs are keeping their heads down and using it on the quiet.

For flash traffic, such as a new game demo being released - or even torrented anime, which often sees in excess of 10-20 thousand people downloading it within 48 hours for the more popular series, this could save ISPs a lot of money.

eXeem (3, Interesting)

aleatory_story (862072) | more than 8 years ago | (#12418333)

I heard about eXeem a while back when SuprNova disbanded... the creator's next project or something. I also heard that it was being backed by spyware companies... so I haven't jumped to try it out. Could someone who has tried out eXeem give their thoughts about it?

Re:eXeem (1)

BlueCup (753410) | more than 8 years ago | (#12418460)

I tried it when it first came out, so I have no idea if there is a newer version... but it was nothing special... not very fast (downloading, and system resource wise) not enough files, and not enough sources for the files... overall, crappy.

Haven't updated the OSX port. (2, Interesting)

minshrine (759474) | more than 8 years ago | (#12418352)

Was looking foward to using as as soon as i heard they updated.But looks like the OSX port is not avalible yet.Must be working a version that is compatible with Tiger.

Re:Haven't updated the OSX port. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#12418385)

It runs under java, so I thought that OS porting wasn't a problem...

Re:Haven't updated the OSX port. (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#12418506)

hey loser...get a real machine and you'll actually be able to run real software!

A legal torrent/torrent site that I'd like to see (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#12418373)

I really wish there was a torrent for MD5 rainbow tables somewhere, totally legal and totally useful. I don't need to steal movies or games, as I have a job and only need to work a couple of hours, but rainbow tables take MONTHS if not years to make!

Looks like a useful set of improvements (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#12418376)

Sure, search for decentralised trackers might be convenient; but it would probably make it rather easier for everyone(read *IAA) to find all the good stuff rather quickly. Without search we've got a formidable tool; bittorrent efficiency added onto the standard "I know a guy who knows a guy" search method of the good old social darknet.

Bittorrent killed Enterprise! (-1, Troll)

xwildph (870208) | more than 8 years ago | (#12418381)

I think that Enterprise was actually killed by P2P technology, such as Bittorrent.

Enterprise may have lost the ratings battle, however I feel that it had many more viewers that were not tracked, as many people downloaded it from torrents, so that they could watch the program in their own time.

XW

Re:Bittorrent killed Enterprise! (1)

Ph33r th3 g(O)at (592622) | more than 8 years ago | (#12418476)

How do you propose that how much broadcast television watching (other than for Nielsen families or TiVo users) was to be "tracked?"

Breaking file share ratios at private sites (2, Interesting)

shyampandit (842649) | more than 8 years ago | (#12418386)

This tech should be very useful on the public trackers (no registration required) as the torrents will continue to work even when the tracker is offline.

But what about the sites where a ratio is enforced so people seed and not just leech? This might break it as the clients might not talk to the main tracker anymore.

Is it even possible to enforce share ratios with distributed tracking?

Lack of search will not negate (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#12418390)

A lack of search will not negate the effect this will have on Azureus. Such a search can easily be provided by a third-party website.

Gentlemen, we now have Suprnova.org without the .torrent hosting issues. All your warez are belong to us!

Other decentralised projects.. (1)

the new supergod (852574) | more than 8 years ago | (#12418408)

I have been following anatomic [berlios.de] which seems to be a similar project, but uses gnutella as the supernode, and a modified BitTornado client. Looks like Azureus is much more mature though.
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