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IBM to Lose 13,000 Jobs

samzenpus posted more than 9 years ago | from the downsize dept.

IBM 516

KingDaveRa writes "The BBC is reporting that IBM is losing 13,000 jobs. This comes after disappointing financial results. Most jobs will be going in europe."

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Losing your job is hard (5, Funny)

Aussie (10167) | more than 9 years ago | (#12439611)

Must be really bad to lose 13,000.

Re:Losing your job is hard (4, Funny)

OpCode42 (253084) | more than 9 years ago | (#12439634)

Oh how appropriate/ironic (delete as misunderstood) that the parent post is marked as redundant!

Re:Losing your job is hard (-1, Offtopic)

KiloByte (825081) | more than 9 years ago | (#12439771)

Beh, the tag has changed.

For a proper effect, we need to have someone mod it "Redundant" again and then mod it "Underrated" thrice.

Re:Losing your job is hard (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12439648)


He is making a joke...
Read the summary:
IBM is losing 13,000 jobs

Re:Losing your job is hard (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12439687)

What the hell is wrong with you people? A flower pot was just blown up in New York City and all you can talk about is IBM employees losing their jobs? For fuck's sake, get some priorities!

Re:Losing your job is hard (-1, Offtopic)

Trent05 (70375) | more than 9 years ago | (#12439738)

And it's Bush's fault too! We never had exploding flower pots during the Carter administration. Those flowers are little Eichmann plants bent on global domination and oppression of mass-murders. This administration just let it happen because they're a tool of the potting-soil industry.

Re:Losing your job is hard (1)

Vario (120611) | more than 9 years ago | (#12439744)


"There was some damage to the front window but there are no reports of any injuries at this stage."


13000 people losing their source of income.

I don't know about your priorities but a bit of broken glass seems not so important to me compared to quite a lot of people who are laid off. Would you be more angry about your boss saying: "Well, we appreciate your work but we are outsourcing to..." or somebody smashing your front window?

Re:Losing your job is hard (0, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12439692)

Must be really bad to lose 13,000.

You, sir, are fired.

Re:Losing your job is hard (4, Insightful)

MartinG (52587) | more than 9 years ago | (#12439720)

Losing your job is hard

No it isn't. It's incredibly easy to lose your job. You hardly have to do anything. In fact that's the best way. Hardly do anything and I assure you that you will lose your job.

Re:Losing your job is hard (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12439732)

Hardly do anything and I assure you that you will lose your job.

Wanna bet?
Where I work that sort of work ethic will only get you promoted...

Re:Losing your job is hard (1, Informative)

Associate (317603) | more than 9 years ago | (#12439733)

I don't know. I'm quite good at the very little I do. As a matter of fact, I'm one of the few who have gotten a raise every year for the past three. Must being doing something right.

Re:Losing your job is hard (3, Funny)

mboverload (657893) | more than 9 years ago | (#12439825)

That "doing nothing to lose your job" thing doesn't seem to work for my boss.

Hmm not a suprise (3, Interesting)

Foo2rama (755806) | more than 9 years ago | (#12439614)

Gee maybe becuase they sold the whole PC MFG dept?

Re:Hmm not a suprise (1)

Associate (317603) | more than 9 years ago | (#12439678)

They still have servers.
And Lucifer Gerstner is still rich as hell. Satan Palmisano is on his way.
Not to mention, they are about to settle with the pensioners they screwed six years ago.
Hell, I got a $63 settlement from it. But I'm not bitter. Pffft!

My uncle (4, Interesting)

MaestroSartori (146297) | more than 9 years ago | (#12439617)

has just been laid off from the Greenock plant, where he was involved in manufacturing for 20 or so years. He's now working in a call centre handling mortgage applications... :(

The UK as a whole seems to be moving towards this kind of economy - jobs involving manufacturing, especially, are going, to be replaced by jobs where you can be sacked at the drop of a hat, and are generally pretty poorly treated. Sad.

Re:My uncle (2, Insightful)

Marcion (876801) | more than 9 years ago | (#12439639)

Yeah thats pretty sad. IBM eventually will not produce any hardware but instead subcontract everything to outside cheap labour. Whether people will be laid off from the software side too is an interesting question.

Re:My uncle (4, Insightful)

Monkelectric (546685) | more than 9 years ago | (#12439693)

Welcome to the world economy Europe. Thats been going on in the US since the 80s. It SUCKS. We can't figure out a better system, why don't you guys work on it for awhile and get back to us with something. Whats your hourly fee again?

Re:My uncle (3, Informative)

Smerity (714804) | more than 9 years ago | (#12439657)

While yes, your uncle being laid off is certainly not good, it's really not IBM's call at the moment.

My mum works at IBM and the IBM/Lenovo split is a very short time off now. This is the main transition point for the company. Your uncle losing his job most likely is that Lenovo is unwilling to hire him, not IBM 'firing' him.

IBM has been making hairline profits on their PCD section for years and years, under very heavy competition. They're changing their whole buisness setup. Losses are to be expected...

Re: My uncle (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12439676)

My sympathies go with your uncle. I've been made redundant twice - it is not fun. What the the election in the UK today there is a LOT of talk about the UK economy (what with the collapse of Rover etc.). The problem is that we are becoming a service industry - which is no bad thing in itself (unless you are a manufacturer). This is the crux of the issue a lot of Brits have with jobs going to India - it is NOT based on racial prejudice as most would suggest - it is simply a matter of job competition. The reason we can get 'sacked at a drop of a hat' is because people are willing to do the job for a paycheque virtually worthless over here. Just a quick side note - all those hyper-patriotic halfwits shouting for Thatcher like she was the 2nd coming in the 80s now find their jobs sent to India and are sad. Why don't they research Thatchers attitude into shipping jobs abroad when it suited big businesses. Maybe a bit less flag waving and a bit more thought would've helped. No disrespect to the people of India - but its not a good situation for the British nation to be in, and could have been avoided.

Re: My uncle (1)

Xoro (201854) | more than 9 years ago | (#12439710)

"...and could have been avoided."

I'm curious about that -- how do you think it could have been avoided?

Re: My uncle (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12439728)

Well, maybe some sort of measure to protect british businesses would have helped - and when I mean bussineeses I mean the people who contribute to the success of the company on a daily basis - rather than the shareholders. The Labour govt of that era would have at least made it a LOT more difficult for the sudden removal of jobs with no accountability to the communities whatsoever. I don't see Blair's 'new Labour' doing the same thing. Im not talking about a regression to the 'Trade Union' movement that crippled this country (and was primarily the reason for Thatcher getting in)... but some sort of middle ground would have worked I feel.

Re: My uncle (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12439736)

Bear in mind that where I live (East London) - the National Front/BNP are almost certainly going to win a seat or come a very close second. When people don't have jobs and hope - it is serious. Not everyone is jumping up and down at the thought of an Indian/Chinese dominated economy...

Re: My uncle (1)

jrumney (197329) | more than 9 years ago | (#12439763)

Where in East London would that be? London does not have anywhere near the shortage of jobs that some places up North where the BNP has a real chance of getting in do, and most of East London is multicultural enough that the BNP's support will be negligible. BNP strongholds tend to be predominently white working class areas with high unemployment, and have an Asian enclave nearby. That just doesn't exist in London.

Re:My uncle (1)

Stokey (751701) | more than 9 years ago | (#12439783)

Aren't most of the jobs going to be axed from the manufacturing side? I know this set of losses is from "bad results" but aren't IBM going to shed some anyway due to the PC business sale to Levono?

Sorry about your Uncle. Through the loss of this manufacturing capability with the closure of Rover and we're [the UK] down another section of the tiny remains of our manufacturing power.

Not "lose" actually. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12439618)

IBM is going to create a much larger presence in emerging markets, so they're moving the jobs.

veryhai (-1, Troll)

veryhai (749973) | more than 9 years ago | (#12439622)

hey, at least it's better than sending them to India

Re:veryhai (4, Insightful)

shyampandit (842649) | more than 9 years ago | (#12439635)

Heh, you have a very weird logic there.

Atleast if the jobs went to India, someone would gain, as Indians would get more jobs.

I dont know why this resentment over jobs going to India. India is a poor country and many people cant find jobs easily and there is no welfare system, so if you dont have a job your as good as on the streets. India can use all the jobs it can get!

Re:veryhai (1)

footnmouth (665025) | more than 9 years ago | (#12439698)

The resentment is mainly due to the fact that at some point in the near future it might be *my* job, and I have a mortgage and kids of my own to worry about.

Though I guess I could move to India - the climate's better than the UK for a start

Re:veryhai (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12439730)

exactly, this "they steal our jobs!" thing is IMHO extremely dumb. if you're good - your job is secure, if it gets outsourced - well, tough shit, better get some skills

Re:veryhai (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12439756)

Wrong. In India, you can get workers for 1/20 the price. Even if you're twice as skilled, the company still gets 10 times more for moving offshore.

Re:veryhai (1)

asadsalm (647013) | more than 9 years ago | (#12439798)

"Outsourcing" to Asia

is nature's balance for

"Brain-Drain" from Asia

Did you RTFA before commenting? (1)

MarkEst1973 (769601) | more than 9 years ago | (#12439662)

It doesn't say that the jobs lost are going to Europe, which I presume prompted your "it's better than sending them to India" comment.

Or is your statement more broadly ignorant than that altogether where it's better to fire people outright than outsource?

Pray for forgiveness sinners! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12439626)

This is the most important question of your life.

The question is: Are you saved?

It is not a question of how good you are,
nor if you are a church member, but are you saved?

Are you sure you will go to Heaven when you die?

The reason some people don't know for sure if they are going to Heaven when they die is because they just don't know.

The good news is that you can know for sure that
you are going to Heaven.

The Holy Bible describes Heaven as a beautiful
place with no death, sorrow, sickness or pain.

God tells us in the Holy Bible how simple it is to be saved so that we can live forever with Him in Heaven.

"For if you confess with your mouth Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you WILL BE SAVED." (Romans 10:9)

Over 2000 years ago God came from Heaven to earth in the person of Jesus Christ to shed His blood and die on a cross to pay our sin debt in full.

Jesus Christ was born in Israel supernaturally to a virgin Jewish woman named Mary and lived a sinless life for thirty-three years.

At the age of thirty-three Jesus was scourged and had a crown of thorns pressed onto His head then Jesus was crucified.

Three days after Jesus died on a cross and was
placed in a grave Jesus rose from the dead as Jesus said would happen before Jesus died.

If someone tells you that they are going to die and then three days later come back to life and it actually happens then this person must be the
real deal.

Jesus Christ is the only person that ever lived a perfect sinless life.

This is why Jesus is able to cover our sins(misdeeds) with His own blood because Jesus is sinless.

The Holy Bible says, "In Him(Jesus) we have
redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of
sins..." (Ephesians 1:7)

If you would like God to forgive you of your past, present and future sins just ask Jesus Christ to be your Lord and Saviour.

It doesn't matter how old you are or how many bad things that you have done in your life including lying and stealing all the way up to murder.

Just pray the prayer below with your mouth and mean it from your heart and God will hear you and save you.

Dear Jesus Christ, I want to be saved so that I can have a home in Heaven with You when I die. I agree With You that I am a sinner. I believe that You love me and want to save me. I believe that You bled and died on the cross to pay the penalty for my sins and that You rose from the dead. Please forgive my sins and come into my heart and be my Lord and Saviour.

Thanks Lord Jesus Christ for forgiving me and saving me through Your merciful grace. Amen.

Welcome to the family of God if you just allowed God to save you.

Now you are a real Christian and you can know for sure that you will live in Heaven forever when this life comes to an end.

As a child of God we are to avoid sin wrongdoing), but if you do sin the Holy Bible says, "My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have one who speaks to the Father in our defense Jesus Christ, the Righteous One."

Those of you that have not yet decided to place your trust in the Lord Jesus Christ may never get another chance to do so because you do not know when you will die.

Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth and the life: no one can come to the Father(God)(in Heaven), but by me." (John 14:6)

This means that if you die without trusting in Jesus Christ as your Lord and Saviour you will die in your sins and be forever separated from the love of God in a place called Hell.

The Holy Bible descibes Hell as a place of eternal torment, suffering, pain and agony for all those who have rejected Jesus Christ.

The good news is that you can avoid Hell by allowing Jesus Christ to save you today. Only then will you have true peace in your life knowing that no matter what happens you are on your way to Heaven.

Praise the Lord!
Servant of the Lord Jesus Christ
Ronald L. Grossi

* Show this to your family and friends so they can also be saved.

* This message may get deleted so you may want to print a copy.

* Just press the [Ctrl][P] keys on your keyboard to print this page.


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This message brought to you by trolls for christ INC []

Die! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12439637)

Go away. I hate you!

Re:Pray for forgiveness sinners! (2, Funny)

Marcion (876801) | more than 9 years ago | (#12439651)

Er what? Trolls for Christ, You are a bit weird I have to say. You also are a bit tasteless; this being a thread about people losing their jobs. What would Jesus do? He wouldn't troll Slashdot thats for sure, he would sell his domain names and computers and give the money to the poor. RTFB! You weirdo.

Re:Pray for forgiveness sinners! (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12439741)

Satan has more power as he gets members by default, and it pays to be on the winning team.


I'll tell you what's hell (0, Offtopic)

Carnil (876285) | more than 9 years ago | (#12439812)

Trying to follow any of your malformed links is!!!

That's good! (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12439627)

13.000 new OSS developers.

Re:That's good! (1)

Chris Kamel (813292) | more than 9 years ago | (#12439654)

Australia is not in Europe you know ;)

Re:That's good! (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12439665)

Do americans know the difference?

Re:That's good! (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12439673)

Who cares? If it weren't for America you'd both be speaking French by now.

Re:That's good! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12439691)

if it werent for the french who funded the separists then america would still be kissing queens ass colony.

Re:That's good! (1, Funny)

Goat(---o---)See (881541) | more than 9 years ago | (#12439717)

The French gave us fries, kisses, ticklers, liberty, and some sort of connection. Why oh why do they keep playing that accordian music though?

Re:That's good! (1)

Wieland (830777) | more than 9 years ago | (#12439729)

No we wouldn't. During his second term, Thomas Jefferson spend most of his time keeping the US out of the Napoleontic wars.

If it weren't for the US, most of Europe (including the French!) would probably be speaking either German or Russian, though.

Re:That's good! (1)

Shisha (145964) | more than 9 years ago | (#12439714)

More to the point, the jobs going won't be R&D jobs. Not that there is anything supporting this claim in the article, but I can't imagine IBM firing 13000 coders.

Re:That's good! (1)

Marcion (876801) | more than 9 years ago | (#12439745)

On some parts of continental Europe the benefits would be even higher than Australia. I think in Britain you might be able to get away with writing code as job development but the "Job Seekers Allowance" is actually only £30 a week or something (although you would get housing and council tax benefit which would pay your rent etc). There is already a benefit called "New Deal for Musicians" where they basically accept that the music industry would collapse without the doll (even more reason for a creative commons type music world where local musicans could make money from local live shows). Could you really code on £30 a week plus rent? Once you include the broadband and beer required to make software, you would not have much left. Although the IBM people might get a redundancy check and if they have paid enough National Insurance then they might get more unemployment benefits.

Re:That's good! (0)

mboverload (657893) | more than 9 years ago | (#12439832)

Duh, it's in amerikas 51rd state!

Re:That's good! (1)

Goat(---o---)See (881541) | more than 9 years ago | (#12439689)

That's significant!

Re:That's good! (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12439770)

And 13,000 new 0.1 version desktop managers or graphics engines on SourceForge...

Wheel? Never heard of it before!

See the opportunity (5, Interesting)

dublinclontarf (777338) | more than 9 years ago | (#12439633)

This is an opportunity for all those who lose thier job to go and start thier own company, I think that there is a need in the European market for more small I.T shops. But are we Europeans up to it? At least the Irish are.

Unix admin jobs in Ireland? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12439703)


What is the job situation in Ireland? Is there a lot of IT jobs available in Dublin? I would be interested to move there if I'd know I'd get a good job. I'm a Unix sysadmin with 5.5 years of experience. My current employer is a huge multinational company, but I'd like to live in Dublin for a couple of years. I've got experience at HP-UX, high availability clusters, BEA Weblogic, BEA Tuxedo, EMC Symmetrix.

Re:Unix admin jobs in Ireland? (1)

Colm Buckley (589428) | more than 9 years ago | (#12439726)

Yes. Google, Microsoft and Yahoo! all have large operations in Ireland, with a nearly insatiable appetite for engineers and administrators. There are also many second-tier IT companies, and a booming small business sector. If your skills are good and current, Dublin's a good place for IT work.

Re:Unix admin jobs in Ireland? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12439742)

Great to hear that! Thanks! I will find some more information now. I wouldn't need to change my job, because I'm very satisfied at the moment, but I have always wanted to live in Dublin - at least for a couple of years, because I _feel_ I've got an Irish heart :) It's hard to explain.

Re:Unix admin jobs in Ireland? (1)

ubera (107426) | more than 9 years ago | (#12439830)

Just be aware that you might feel the cost of living in Dublin in your Irish Wallet!

Re:See the opportunity (1)

niks42 (768188) | more than 9 years ago | (#12439711)

I for one will be grasping the opportunity to leave and set up in business for myself. Interestingly enough, part of the separation package that IBM is offering volunteers includes a generous amount of time with an outplacement consultancy. Part of their remit is to support people and give guidance if they wish to leave to start up on their own.

Re:See the opportunity (1)

Dogtanian (588974) | more than 9 years ago | (#12439743)

This is an opportunity for all those who lose thier job to go and start thier own company, I think that there is a need in the European market for more small I.T shops.

If any UK readers think this is a good idea, bear in mind how the danger of software patents would make life disproportinately harder for small businesses, and vote accordingly in today's general election.

Yeah, I know it's not a European election; the question is, do you want to support those that will make your life harder because their leaders are in thrall to corporate America?

RSS of this story (2, Interesting)

tokyopimpdaddy (586432) | more than 9 years ago | (#12439641)

I only noticed this story via the BBC RSS feed as it had some extensive strikethroughs - nothing massively interesting, but it shows that they do indeed have editors! Shameless plug of my blog here with pics: []

Re:RSS of this story (1)

Marcion (876801) | more than 9 years ago | (#12439705)

It is actually really cool that you noticed that. I will be keeping an eye on those feeds now; they have potential for finding lots of interesting slips and changes. Maybe someone really smart knows a way to make a cron automatically compare the differences with the HTML page and give me a list?

Donald Duck Once More (1)

DonaldDuckBigO (749237) | more than 9 years ago | (#12439646)

I'll bet you folks thought that I had checked out for good. PSYCH!

Donald Duck is going to have a SCREAMING ORGASM in his free time looking at Diaisy Dcuk pr0n since he lost his job from IBM!

First Europe, then India, (-1, Redundant)

Ray Alloc (835739) | more than 9 years ago | (#12439647)

Jobs are going to Europe ? Not for long, as income there is insanely high, compared to India or East Asia, not to mention Africa. You can bet that these 13,000 jobs won't stay in Europe for long.

Do yourself a favor (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12439660)

and read the /. article again:

"Most jobs will be going in europe."

going in, not going to

Re:First Europe, then India, (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12439669)

Idiot. Jobs are going from Europe.

erm (4, Informative)

Turn-X Alphonse (789240) | more than 9 years ago | (#12439652)

The blerb is misleading. This was reported earlier on BBC news 24 (about 5 hours ago) and they said IBM hasn't said where they will be cutting the jobs back. It could be in several places not just Europe.

Wilde (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12439653)

Hmmm. "To loose one job can be seen as a misfotune, to loose 13,000 looks like carelessness." To misquote Oscar Wilde.

Re:Wilde (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12439670)

and misspell "lose" to boot :oP

don't forget to take spelling class (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12439767)

it might keep you in a job

article text (1)

DonaldDuckBigO (749237) | more than 9 years ago | (#12439659)

IBM to axe 13,000 jobs worldwide German worker wearing T-shirt criticising IBM Earnings at computer companies have been on a roller-coaster ride Computer giant IBM will cut 13,000 jobs worldwide, or about 4% of its total workforce, as part of a restructuring aimed at boosting profits.

Most of the job losses will be at IBM's European operations as the firm looks to focus on high-growth markets.

IBM, the world's biggest maker of computers, said the plans would cost between $1.3bn (£684m) and $1.7bn.

The company employs 100,000 staff in Europe, with about 25,000 of those working in the United Kingdom.

'Fear the donald duck screaming orgasm!'

The extent of the job cuts in the UK is not yet clear, although there are fears that 2,800 staff at the company's centre in Greenock, Scotland, could be among the worst affected.

I don't know how they are going to get 10,000 people to quit Mark Herskovitz, Dreyfus

A spokesman for the workers' union Amicus called the move a "slash and burn" reaction to poor results and called for talks.

"We fear the worst, given that it is quicker, cheaper and easier to get rid of workers in the UK than elsewhere in Europe," the spokesman said.

The news comes just weeks after IBM reported worse-than-expected earnings in the first quarter.

The New York-based firm blamed a failure to close business deals and slow economic growth in key European markets.

'Sizable restructuring'

The world's biggest computer maker surprised markets when it said net profit for the three months to 31 March were $1.4bn (£745m) from £1.36bn a year earlier, while sales were $22.9bn, less than analyst forecasts of $23bn.

IBM logo IBM will create a number of smaller, more flexible local operating units in Europe to increase direct client contact IBM

Check IBM's share price IBM's Scots workers wait

As the results were revealed chief financial officer Mark Loughridge warned that a "sizable restructuring" would be undertaken.

The group now plans to realign its operations and organisational structure in Europe to reduce bureaucracy in lower-growth countries - a move it said "eliminates the need for a traditional pan-European management layer to coordinate activity".

"IBM will create a number of smaller, more flexible local operating units in Europe to increase direct client contact," it added in a statement.

Most of the redundancies in Europe will be voluntary and talks have already begun with unions and worker councils over the timing of the job cuts in Europe, company spokesman John Bukovinsky said.

Helping hand

Analysts questioned whether the company would be able to trim its workforce without resorting to forced redundancies.

"I don't know how they are going to get 10,000 people to quit," said Mark Herskovitz, a fund manager at Dreyfus.

IBM is to unveil further details of the shake-up on Thursday.

Mr Herskovitz said that IBM's problems were not linked to a wider slowdown in the global technology industry.

The company already has taken steps to streamline its operations and has sold its personal computer division to China's Lenovo for $1.75bn.

IBM has been trying to find its correct staffing level for years, and its worker numbers have fluctuated since the late 1980s.

Employee numbers peaked at 405,000 in 1985, before hitting a low of 219,000 in 1994.

IBM had 329,000 staff worldwide as of December last year.

Dont forget about Poland (5, Interesting)

AdamPiotrZochowski (736869) | more than 9 years ago | (#12439661)

IBM is expanding in Poland, hiring almost 200 people in Cracow alone, and so are
many other big name companies like Motorolla, KPMG, Lufthansa, 3M, Phillips:,35798,2689839.htm l []

everyone in europe is moving to Poland, its as nice as Ireland, just as many drunks
but much cheaper, people are educated, and lots of beautifull clean land.

/apz, Don't kid yourself. Little is relevant, and nothing lasts forever.

Re:Dont forget about Poland (1, Flamebait)

KiloByte (825081) | more than 9 years ago | (#12439709)

just as many drunks but much cheaper
Having drunks drink cheaper booze is not a good thing.

lots of beautifull clean land
Didn't you mention Cracow in your post?

The only benefit Poland has is being pretty cheap, but nowhere as cheap as India is. On the other hand, we are world leaders where it comes to bureaucracy, stupid laws and corruption.

Like every major company that moved its manufacturing into Poland has either already left or is contemplating leaving. Low labor costs are not everything.

I'm speaking mostly about automobile industry here -- but when it comes to assembling PCs, we got a case when a company had to export their wares to the Czech republic, "buy" them from itself and import them back -- all to avoid a certain law idiocy.

Re:Dont forget about Poland (1)

Splab (574204) | more than 9 years ago | (#12439719)

I know from good sources that the reason why Motorola is moving to Poland is the people there have good education - but unlike India and China they have been raised to make decisions and follow through.

Re:Dont forget about Poland (1)

mboverload (657893) | more than 9 years ago | (#12439848)

What does that mean? I'm sure Indians are probably just as capable of deciding something as you.

Re:Dont forget about Poland (1)

dublinclontarf (777338) | more than 9 years ago | (#12439774)

dont forget the women (compared to Irish wonem)

Poland as nice as Ireland? (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12439797)

Poland as nice as Ireland? Muahhahhah! Yeah, sure pal, whatever you say.

Dublin is probably the greatest city in Europe and I'm saying this as Finn.

Mutual interest (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12439668)

It is mutual interest that jobs are transfered to Europe. Europe has the most competent IT professionals.

Re:Mutual interest (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12439792)

of course! they invented the internet, TCP/IP WWW email and...

oh wait... you guys invented NOTHING that started the internet.

exactly what do you people do besides drinking booze instead of your horribly polluted water?

Re:Mutual interest (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12439802)

Linux - Finland
SSH - Finland
IRC - Finland name a few. List is too long to be listed here.

Re:Mutual interest (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12439837)

The jobs being lost are European jobs, numbnuts.

Uh, people? (2, Insightful)

mr_snarf (807002) | more than 9 years ago | (#12439672)

Am I the only one who thinks the article title is odd. I mean 'IBM to Lose 13,000 Jobs'. I would have expected '13,000 IBM workers to lose their jobs'. *shrug*

Re:Uh, people? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12439759)

And why captilise "Lose" and "Jobs" ?
I'am constantly amazed at the poor literacy of posters here, sure a lot of people do not speak English but most are from USA, and if the spelling and grammar here is anything to go by, i'd hate to see their code.

Multi-national corps do not outsource (3, Funny)

Senor_Programmer (876714) | more than 9 years ago | (#12439677)

they just reallocate.

A drop in the bucket (0)

Colin Smith (2679) | more than 9 years ago | (#12439686)

13,000 jobs lost aren't a problem, they'll easily find work elsewhere. The problem comes when you have thousands of jobs lost in a single area with people who are unwilling or unable to move to where the new opportunities are.

Re:A drop in the bucket (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12439809)

Unwilling is their own fault and nobody whout pity them for being unwilling.

Unable that is a real pisser, but barring legal requirements unable is not that difficult to overcome.

usually unable = unwilling to drop down in lifestyle to relocate.

and those people also deserve no pity.

alas most americans are dimwitted boobs that still think they are entitled to a BMW, house in a exclusive subdivision and the god given right to ignore all traffic and public safety laws.

I get my jollies over destitute middle managers drving their rusted out POS bmw 3 series from 1982... they still try to cling to their old "life" while looking pitiful driving the absolute worst car to ever own. (a chevy is more reliable and certianly has a much lower TCO than anything imported.)

Not such a bad thing (1)

NaCh0 (6124) | more than 9 years ago | (#12439696)

Socialist Europe has a "safety net" that allows for 10% unemployment rates throughout the EU.

(to the future laid-off IBM personnel) (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12439700)

Quit reading Slashdot while working, slackass ! ;)

(*) Remember to tick the Post Anonymously button.

Re:(to the future laid-off IBM personnel) (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12439721)

Except that today is a bank holiday and 4 days week-end in many (most?) european countries ;)

Advice to the corporate slave ... A Rant (5, Insightful)

Ice Station Zebra (18124) | more than 9 years ago | (#12439707)

If you work in the corporate environment you should remember that you don't matter. What you do doesn't matter. You should be ready and willing to do anything...anything for the corporate bottom line.

The stock holders must be paid first, the CE0, the board, everybody with VP in their title second, and --- if there is anything left --- you.

That doesn't mean they won't take your stapler and forget to pay you. It means that you are nothing to them, all those times you supported the Republician party because you believed in lower taxes and less government, lies. Your pay has decreased since they took (and I really mean took) office. Sure, the price of your home as gone up, but the bank still owns it and you pay even more in property taxes and insurance costs. Oh, and don't use that insurance. Too many claims (and by too many I mean one) and you are off looking to the state for help, because no one will insure your castle. And you now that government help is bad. You don't want to be a welfare queen do you?

So, follow my advice. When the corporation tells you to bend over and take it up the arse. Just do it. Then, head straight for the nearest pub. You will need a good pint and this may be the last time you can afford one.

If you want a job for life (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12439712)

be an American politician
after all nobody is going to vote you out for doing your job poorly and with all the corruption [] going on, its party time every day of the week

drink up !

ibm and opensource (1) (630682) | more than 9 years ago | (#12439725)

IT is sad news indeed

Wasn't that expected? (1)

Venkata Prasad (874420) | more than 9 years ago | (#12439748)

"In a widely expected move, International Business Machines Corp. said it is restructuring its operations to make them leaner and nimbler, slashing between 10,000 and 13,000 jobs, mostly in Europe, and taking a second quarter charge in the process." says the yahoo-technology article about the same. Apart from that IBM did start laying off its workforce even before announcing the finantial results... right? Yahoo Technology articles is at 05/ap_on_bi_ge/ibm_cuts []

Enjoy your extended weekend! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12439785)

In Europe we can enjoy extended weekend now! It's thursday, but none of us has to go to work today.

Drink up mates! I'm going to get some beer now!

Re:Enjoy your extended weekend! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12439807)

Europe is not a country, you moron.

How times have changed (3, Informative)

btarval (874919) | more than 9 years ago | (#12439793)

For almost all of the last century, when you worked at IBM, you were guaranteed a job for life. I don't know if people realize this, but IBM reportedly didn't have layoffs even during the Great Depression (which made the dot-com bust look like peanuts).

How times have changed. I'm sorry to hear about how this will impact the lives of all those people affected, directly and indirectly.

Most jobs will be going in europe (1)

krunk4ever (856261) | more than 9 years ago | (#12439795)

Just for a clarification, what the OP meant to say was that most of the job losses will occur in Europe. When I initially read it, it was ambiguous if the jobs would be moving to Europe or would be leaving Europe.

moving to cheaper countries (1)

paulatz (744216) | more than 9 years ago | (#12439814)

When such a big corporation as IBM say they have to fire lots of employes because of bad financial outcomes you can bet that they are going to move or to outsorce the job to a cheaper country.

In fact it is far too difficult to check if the crisis really occured or if it is a fake. Here, in Europe, a large corporation, or an industry, cannot, in normal conditions, fire so many people.

The solution is both simple and old: a crisis is faked and the people are fired. Then they will hire people somewhere in India or in China. It's easy, you can try this at home!

Governments Should Tax Their Profits More (1, Insightful)

pandrijeczko (588093) | more than 9 years ago | (#12439838)

Okay, so I'm a techie geek but here's my solution to the whole issue.

If a corporation makes profits in your country then it takes money out of your country. By employing people in your country a corporation puts money back into your country.

Therefore, you subtract what it brings in from what it takes out and heavily tax the remainder.

Makes the corporation think twice about outsourcing and messing up local economies when thousands of job losses occur when a major facility in an area gets closed down...

They're Not Lost.... (5, Insightful)

bobdobbs3 (641058) | more than 9 years ago | (#12439816)

IBM didn't "lose" 13,000 jobs - that sounds as if they misplaced them, or had this happen to them. Not so. IBM *cut* 13,000 jobs. Or *slashed* 13,000 jobs. In a related news item: 13,000 IBM *workers* lost their jobs.

A quote to all the corporate Stalins out there (1)

Elamaton (771817) | more than 9 years ago | (#12439826)

One lost job is a tragedy, 13 000 lost jobs are a statistic.

This is exactly why I *never* want to work for a large corporation. Smaller shops are hardly immune to going under, but at least they don't suffer from these sorts of near-cataclysmic random-act-of-God-like massive workforce cuts. I know I feel safer in a small firm (or I did, until I quit and started earning a living by entrepreneurial means). At least in them downsizing is not "like printing money", as it was well put in an old Dilbert strip.

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