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Sun Developers Refute OpenSolaris Vaporware Claims

CowboyNeal posted more than 9 years ago | from the long-time-coming dept.

Sun Microsystems 282

daria42 writes "It looks like an anonymous post on OSNews.com claiming OpenSolaris is vaporware was the last straw for two frustrated Sun Microsystems developers. They have responded furiously on their official Sun blogs, saying that they are currently working 'feverishly' on the project, and that it was taking so long because of the need to get rid of legal encumbrances to releasing the code. 'OpenSolaris certainly exists,' Sun kernel developer Alan Hargreaves says on his Sun blog. 'You only have to speak to anyone involved in getting it out there. There are a lot of us out there who both do and do not work for Sun.'"

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Astroturf (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12450019)

Open solaris exists and I can prove it, you only have to ask any of our hired shills [wikipedia.org] about it and they will say they're not liars on their personal blogs! What? that isnt good enough?! But...my blog...?! What do you people want, the damn source code?!

SUN is an evil company. they regularly attack open source, yet they want us to believe that they're going to "open source" (if you can call cddl open source, i know it's osi approved but god knows how...(kickbacks? i hope not.)). Yes, they have some (relatively) nice products, that doesnt make them nice people. This Open Solaris crap is just going to be ammunition for them to say crap like "We believe in open source, look at open solaris! just not your evil commie GPL!"..They're already doing this and the damn thing hasnt even been released! They are hoping the GPL will just wither and die, and their cddl license will take over (NEWSFLASH: nobody is going to use your cddl, it basically says we all work for sun for free), I suggest they hire that brown guy from alex toqueville or whatever that sham research company is called for their new marketing material, maybe they can even call it "open sores" and use terms like "hybrid source"...a match made in heaven!

"Vaporwear"? (4, Funny)

stealth.c (724419) | more than 9 years ago | (#12450020)

Is it clothing?

Re:"Vaporwear"? (3, Funny)

mattmentecky (799199) | more than 9 years ago | (#12450029)

I think you just planted the seed for a marketing joint venture for fashion designers and porn producers abound.

Re:"Vaporwear"? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12450223)

I think you just planted the seed for a marketing joint venture for fashion designers and porn producers abound.

Spray-on latex clothing?

Re:"Vaporwear"? (1)

caluml (551744) | more than 9 years ago | (#12450368)

Clothing that is bio-degradable, activated by human sweat. You wear it, and after an hour, it starts disappearing. The ideal gift for people you either really like, or really don't.

Re:"Vaporwear"? (3, Insightful)

Daniel Ellard (799842) | more than 9 years ago | (#12450030)

Thank you, slashdot editors.

Re:"Vaporwear"? (1)

wheany (460585) | more than 9 years ago | (#12450256)

Don't you get it, you're supposed to pay them to get to catch these kinds of errors in the stories, before they hit the front page. They just push "accept" or "reject" and then (in theory) watch the daddypants@ -address for warnings.

Now there's a business model.

Re:"Vaporwear"? (1)

macaulay805 (823467) | more than 9 years ago | (#12450033)

Is it clothing?

Guess [guess.com]

Re:"Vaporwear"? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12450051)

Anybody seen Robert Altman's "Ready to Wear"? Remember the big climactic fashion show with the nude models?

"It's the new, new, old thing, and everyone can afford it!"

Re:"Vaporwear"? (1)

stealth.c (724419) | more than 9 years ago | (#12450142)

No, I haven't, but I really hope Sun doesn't sell this technology to Steve Ballmer.

>shudder

Re:"Vaporwear"? (1)

spiralscratch (634649) | more than 9 years ago | (#12450084)

I understand that some emperor somewhere has started to clothe himself in vaporwear.

Re:"Vaporwear"? (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12450120)

<flamebait>
No, repeat after me: the WMD was real!
The inability to find it only underscores the diabolical cleverness of the foe!
Disagreement == Disloyalty!
I have not leveraged the security issue to spend like a 'liberal' while clinging to 'conservative' credentials!
</flamebait>

Re:"Vaporwear"? (-1, Redundant)

kniLnamiJ-neB (754894) | more than 9 years ago | (#12450113)

Please please please please please PLEASE let George Lucas use this for Episode 3!!!! Now, if we can just find some grits...

Yes, but does it run Linux? (1)

Spy der Mann (805235) | more than 9 years ago | (#12450265)

Hmmm must be one of those e-clothing stuff i've seen on technology news.

And it's SUN-powered! :D Where do I get one?

And most importantly: (1)

ArsenneLupin (766289) | more than 9 years ago | (#12450280)

Will it be as difficult to install as Solaris 10? Maybe Sun should pay their shills to iron out the many wrinkles from the installation, rather than losing their time astroturfing on the blogs...

Re:"Vaporwear"? (1)

The Monster (227884) | more than 9 years ago | (#12450300)

Is it clothing?
That's what the consultants told the Emperor.

...and a child said: "Mommy, why is the man with the crown naked?"

Re:"Vaporwear"? (1)

LittLe3Lue (819978) | more than 9 years ago | (#12450310)

If the quetion lies within the definition of vaporwear:

http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&lr=&oi=defmore&q =define:vaporware [google.ca]
"description of software/features that is/are not currently available but may never be available"

In other words: When a company claims to be working on or completing software that is unlikely to exist or to ever be completed. Prime examples: Duke Nukem Forever

http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,1282,61935, 00.html [wired.com]
"The company's perennial absentee title, Duke Nukem Forever, is still vaporware. The first-person shooter, now in its sixth year of development, earned almost as many votes as all the other nominations combined."

Re:"Vaporwear"? (0)

el_womble (779715) | more than 9 years ago | (#12450408)

The Emperors new code?

Fashion? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12450021)

Since when does /. cover fashion stories?

But... (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12450025)

But will it run on the Phantom?

Stuff that matters (4, Insightful)

fembots (753724) | more than 9 years ago | (#12450026)

Seriously who would need to refute claims like that? The sooner they get this thing out, the sooner the rumors will vaporize automatically. The rest is just a waste of time.

Tell me which one would you believe more - Microsoft claiming that they're working on patches to fix some exploits "as we speak", or they're asking users to download the patches now?

Re:Stuff that matters (4, Insightful)

liquidpele (663430) | more than 9 years ago | (#12450144)

How the hell did you get Insightful? They are working on it, it's not exactly hello world...
I can certainly believe they are having a tough time trying to scrap through and legalize their code for it after this whole SCO crap. Give them a break, if I was working on something and people kept annoying me about it, I'd be sure as hell tempted to quit and give them the finger.

Re:Stuff that matters (1, Flamebait)

passthecrackpipe (598773) | more than 9 years ago | (#12450188)

"Give them a break, if I was working on something and people kept annoying me about it, I'd be sure as hell tempted to quit and give them the finger."

If I was them, I'd *first* do all the legal stuff, then decide what to release, *then* announce and release it at the same time. Sun, instead, has opted to announce, and then announce again, and keep that up for a year or so, then announce again, then release some code that isn't really Open Solaris, and then get some devs to "respond furiously" about being bugged for code that was promised over a year ago, but nobody has really yet seen.

Re:Stuff that matters (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12450237)

bugged for code that was promised over a year ago

You are obviously not familiar with corporate marketing. Or, for that matter, with marketing in general. Do you get mad at George Lucas because he promised Episode III almost five years ago (when he started Episode I)? Do you get mad because they started marketing it a year ago? Do you get mad because they started to release teaser trailers a couple of months ago? Do you get mad because they started running real trailers a few weeks ago? Shouldn't they just keep quiet about the whole thing and just release the trailers when the movie is done and out?

Of course not, they have to create buzz to let people know what is coming and to build an audience.

Sun didn't promise to release the code a year ago, they announced they would be releasing it. They've been pretty consistent in saying that it would be end of Q2. There's not been any reason to doubt that it will happen when they say.

Re:Stuff that matters (2, Funny)

ArsenneLupin (766289) | more than 9 years ago | (#12450308)

They've been pretty consistent in saying that it would be end of Q2.

Yes, but Q2 of which year? My bet is on 2014.

Re:Stuff that matters (1)

_Hiro_ (151911) | more than 9 years ago | (#12450379)

Ah, so it's a Working Designs joint venture!

Re:Stuff that matters (1)

liquidpele (663430) | more than 9 years ago | (#12450286)

You are NOT them, and I doubt the developers did the marketing. Sun is notorious for the left hand not knowing what the right is doing, so cut them some slack. I also doubt they promised it with a date, or at least one that's not already past, so lets get off our high horse *dismounts* and admit we don't know much about 1) the situation over at sun 2) marketing 3) ninja chickens.

Re:Stuff that matters (1)

peragrin (659227) | more than 9 years ago | (#12450404)

Actually Sun did promise it by the first of the year.

then in december it became June.

June is still possible, though My bet was for August 2005.

Lucas promised episode III after I and II,

Sun has been promising Open Solaris for the year, but they have also prmised it in the past, and then withdrew those sentiments.

Re:Stuff that matters (1)

smilheim (804292) | more than 9 years ago | (#12450382)

Announce product pump/hype it up delay product creating more anticipation profit!

Re:Stuff that matters (1)

pdpTrojan (454023) | more than 9 years ago | (#12450252)

Nope, I totally disagree. You have to remember that the people making these claims are a bunch of open source hippies. They'll talk shit about Sun or any other corporation no matter what the actual facts are.

Advice to developers (3, Insightful)

gowen (141411) | more than 9 years ago | (#12450037)

The more time you spend "responding furiously" to "anonymous posts on OSNews.com", the less time you're spending actually being productive.

You'd be better of ignoring the cynics, the nay-sayers, and the anonymous blowhards, and continuing doing something productive.

Arguing on the internet is like ... yadda, yadda, yadda.

Re:Advice to developers (2, Insightful)

tka (548076) | more than 9 years ago | (#12450078)

which is different of what you are doing now? You're arguing how they should do it..

It's not like they are in a big flame war, they are just stating what the status is currently.

Re:Advice to developers (1)

gowen (141411) | more than 9 years ago | (#12450098)

which is different of what you are doing now?
It's different because I haven't got anything better to do :)

Re:Advice to developers (1)

tka (548076) | more than 9 years ago | (#12450146)

Yeah, sure.. :D

Re:Advice to developers (4, Insightful)

MrMickS (568778) | more than 9 years ago | (#12450148)

Move along, nothing to see above. The parent rather than being informative is merely making a cheap shot.

There are many examples wherein an oft repeated untruth is more widely accepted than the reality. What is so bad about people putting their comments into their blogs? Oh, I get it.. if they were real open sores developers then they would only have time for the project. The rest of life would be as nothing to the all encompassing goal of making it work.

Pot, meet kettle; kettle, meet pot! (0)

ArsenneLupin (766289) | more than 9 years ago | (#12450293)

Arguing on the internet is like ...

... posting to Slashdot?

osnews... (2, Interesting)

Freggy (825249) | more than 9 years ago | (#12450041)

Hey, give these guys a bit of time, will you? Sun developers, don't take it too personally, osnews is known for being the trolling site bu excellence in free software land.

Re:osnews... (0, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12450207)

osnews is known for being the trolling site bu excellence in free software land.

What? When did Slashdot get knocked off its seat?

it's useful to know open solaris is in the works (1)

Senor_Programmer (876714) | more than 9 years ago | (#12450043)

prior to release. planning and all that.

For Now, It's Still Vaporware (4, Insightful)

zeromemory (742402) | more than 9 years ago | (#12450061)

While I'm inclined to believe that Sun is really try to open up the source to Solaris, the fact that they've only been able to put up a website (which notably has more links to press releases and news articles than source code) and the source for DTrace in the months since they've stated their Great Plan to open-source Solaris, it's no wonder that members of the community are calling an open-source Solaris vaporware.

Re:For Now, It's Still Vaporware (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12450317)

read the fucking story linked from the zdnet article in which Alan Hargreave refutes this vaporware claim point for point.

or don't you believe in the mighty Wikipedia's definition?

In other news.. (5, Funny)

asterix_2k1 (781702) | more than 9 years ago | (#12450065)

twelve thousand monkeys furiously coding for 3DRealms posted that Duke Nukem Forever should be out anytime soon...

Re:In other news.. (2, Insightful)

jgardner100 (559892) | more than 9 years ago | (#12450367)

Yes but Duke Nukem is actually past it's release date. I can't believe that we are wasting time calling something "vaporware" before it's release date. Make /. look a little bit biased you konw.

Re:In other news.. (1)

peragrin (659227) | more than 9 years ago | (#12450419)

Open Solaris was promised for in June of last year for novemember 2004, then it became January, 2005 then June 2005.

Sun has got a good track record so far.

Vaporwear? (0, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12450068)

Is that the kind of underpants you have on when you're going commando?

What about a sample? (2, Interesting)

Vo0k (760020) | more than 9 years ago | (#12450069)

Following the standard FOSS policy "release often", release some parts of the system that are ready - some demon, some apps, and keep adding. Linux wasn't built in a day, and the first versions required Minix to compile it, it was a long process of creating it. Why not release OpenSolaris piece-by-piece, so people interested in it could start working on the non-encumbered parts?

Imagine this: I'm running commercial Solaris. I have some app provided by the system, that does the work in a realy kludgy way, with some of my custom wrapper scripts to let it work at all. I know I can fix it and make it work as it should with a few simple changes to the source of the app. I don't need whole OS. I need sources of this one single component. And they lay there on the harddrives of SUN employees, ready to release, waiting till some completely different parts are finished, and in the meantime I lose $1000 a day because the kludge doesn't do its job well enough. So why won't they release it?

Re:What about a sample? (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12450273)

and in the meantime I lose $1000 a day because the kludge doesn't do its job well enough. So why won't they release it?

Then you pay for a support contract - you'll save your money in no time.

They don't *owe* you OpenSolaris. Let them do it in their own time.

Re:What about a sample? (1)

Otter (3800) | more than 9 years ago | (#12450350)

That may or may not be a good idea, but do you think it would result in people bitching at them any less? It's not like an anonymous poster at OSNews has a burning need to look at Solaris' scheduler code.

Re:What about a sample? (1)

Vo0k (760020) | more than 9 years ago | (#12450416)

Except, he couldn't bitch it's a vaporware, seeing separate components clicking together and thing being built before his eyes.

Re:What about a sample? (5, Informative)

blastwave (757518) | more than 9 years ago | (#12450364)


It will get released when everything is ready.

I don't work for Sun but I have been in the OpenSolaris [opensolaris.org] pilot from Day One and I can tell you that I have been working like mad with it as have others. Myself [blastwave.org] and James Dickens [blogspot.com] worked night and day over the past weekend to build the OS on an E4000 as well as a LX50 machine for both enterprise class implementations and server room work. You can see the results of the workstation build at Blastwave.org [blastwave.org] and you need to watch James Dickens [blogspot.com] blog as well as mine [blastwave.org] to see progress that happens OUTSIDE of Sun. Not to mention the PowerPC port project at BlastWare [blastware.org] which will also make progress when some other bits are in place. There are partnerships in place to work on the PowerPC port and GENESI [pegasosppc.com] is behind this as well as others.

Power is a big deal folks. Think of OpenSolaris on your IBM big iron also.

So go make a coffee and relax. Its coming real soon now.

Dennis Clarke
Director Blastwave.org
http://www.blastwave.org/ [blastwave.org]

I Have Relenquished My Linux Duties (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12450074)

Hey gang, Alan Cox here again.

I wanted to let everyone know that I am discontinuing my work on the Linux TCP/IP stack. After admitting to myself that it sux, I felt I was disservicing the community with my niggardly code.

I recommend using FreeBSD, NetBSD, OpenBSD, or even Darwin, which now compiles and runs under x86. The BSD family of OSes all have much better TCP/IP performance than Linux. Solaris is offered by Sun for cost of media for non-commercial uses, as is SCO's OpenServer and Compaq's Tru64 UNIX (formerly Digital Unix, descended from OSF). I'm not sure if these other Unices (Unixes? Unixen?) have better networking performance than Linux, but it'd be hard to imagine that they don't, e.g., I had nothing to do with creating them.

As much as it pains me to say this, Windows NT 4.0 and Windows 2000 (aka Windows NT 5.0) are great network OSes, with a built-in GUI no less. And as bad as the GUI is in WinNT4 and Win2K, it's a Hell of a lot better than the crusty, poorly-written crap like GNOME and KDE and the window managers avaiable for them.

In fact, I think even the HURD is a better solution than Linux at this point. Even though it's only released at version .002++d11, its networking scheme blasts Linux's out of the toilet.

I have to go now, as heavy as my heart is, as it's time for my monthly bath. I hope no one is uber-upset by this news; they shouldn't be, as this is a step forward for Linux. Perhaps without my substandard, slavish attempts at being L33T and defecating code, the kernel and its networking performance will benefit from a real programmer and not a DGH (Dirty GNU Hippy) like me.

Thank you.

what month is it? (5, Insightful)

Daniel Ellard (799842) | more than 9 years ago | (#12450077)

OpenSolaris is supposed to appear in July. Did I oversleep today, or isn't it still May?

It's a bit unfair to start calling something vaporware two months before the scheduled release.

(I don't work on Solaris/OpenSolaris, so I have no special knowledge about the project, except that I know people are working are working on it.)

Re:what month is it? (2, Interesting)

Richard_at_work (517087) | more than 9 years ago | (#12450181)

Slashdot as a community seems to have the opinion that if the announcement of something isnt accompanied by that something straight away, then its classed as vapourware, purely because slashdot bases its opinions on the workings of the opensource community, and that is completely unfair. If I announce an opensource project, I can immediately give anon read cvs access to the tree, regardless of whether theres anything in there. Sun cant do this tho, they have announced OpenSolaris to essentially placate the calls for opensourcing any and every closed source app that has been appearing in the community, and as the article states they need time to ensure theres no legal issues with the code. If Sun hadnt announced when they did, there would still be a lot of shouting down of Sun about an opensource solaris, even if Sun was doing this work in private. At least this way people get to know whats happening.

Re:what month is it? (1)

markus_baertschi (259069) | more than 9 years ago | (#12450192)

Until it's released it's vaporware. Vaporware is something announced, with no real stuff available. Open source Solaris fits this description nicely right now.

If it takes until July to get ready, what was the point announcing it so early ?

Markus

Vaporware vs vaporwear (1)

totallygeek (263191) | more than 9 years ago | (#12450241)

It's a bit unfair to start calling something vaporware two months before the scheduled release.


I guess that is why it was called "vaporwear" instead.

Re:what month is it? (1)

zotz (3951) | more than 9 years ago | (#12450281)

"OpenSolaris is supposed to appear in July. Did I oversleep today, or isn't it still May?

It's a bit unfair to start calling something vaporware two months before the scheduled release. "

Why is it being called OpenSolaris? We know Solaris exists. Is it being called OpenSolaris because it is to be open source Solaris?

If so, the Solaris part may exist now, but the open part doesn't. I noticed something about legal encumberances to releasing now... All closed promoters please note the problems you get into using non-Free code in your programs. You can't do what you want with your own software. (I know I am only presenting one side there.)

all the best,

drew

Why doesn't Sun just post some chunks of it? (2, Insightful)

dpbsmith (263124) | more than 9 years ago | (#12450105)

So what's the big deal?

Why not take some substantial CHUNK of partly-finished code, some chunk for which the licensing issues HAVE been resolved, slap on a disclaimer about it being pre-alpha, buggy, etc, and post it somewhere?

If it's open source, there shouldn't be Apple-Steve-Jobs-like issues about maintaining secrecy until the actual moment of release.

Like this? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12450214)

Did you hear about DTrace [opensolaris.org]

Anyway, OPENSOLARIS DOES NOT EXIST. It will be released in the future, and then and only THEN they'll be able to talk about "opensolaris". As for now, Solaris is 99.9% closed just as always. I don't really care that they've a "opensolaris preview program" with some people outside of sun looking at the code, "free" means that EVERYBODY can see, download it. As Linus said "They like to speak too much. I'm waiting for action".

and they should just shut up about redhat BTW. Redhat publishes ALL his software in a open way in ftp.redhat.com. They bought sixtina, what they did with xistina's "clustering fs"? As far as I know they released as soon as they could in the GPL and submitted it to the kernel mailing lists. The "Netscape directory" thing which was bought by redhat will be opensource too but they're "working on it" because of all the legal crap, just like solaris - just with one difference, Redhat's CEO doesn't talk like "opennetscape directory" like it already exist, which is what Swartchz does with opensolaris. It's amazing too see Swartchz talking about how "bad guy" is Redhat (surprise suprise, is redhat who is eating the traditional sun market share) because if you want to use things like Oracle they're only certified for use with redhat and not other distros. Yeah, I guess that if I write a solaris compatibility layer for solaris in linux suddenly all the certified sun apps will be supported, rigth? (In case you didn't noticed, I hate Swartchz. I love sun but I can't stand with people like that)

Re:Why doesn't Sun just post some chunks of it? (0)

gr8_phk (621180) | more than 9 years ago | (#12450232)

Because their license doesn't allow you to take the code and use it for other projects. A chunk of Solaris isn't worth crap then without the whole thing.

It may be open source - you can see the source - but it isn't really good for anything but getting free labor to work on Solaris. At least that's what I've read on /. and Groklaw. I'd guess they can't release source until they hide all the good stuff in a way that they can easily patch it back in on the closed source side.

IMHO sun is not a friend of free software or even plain open source.

Not "Official Sun Blogs" (2)

scarhill (140669) | more than 9 years ago | (#12450109)

From the site [sun.com] :
The individuals who post here work at Sun Microsystems. The opinions expressed here are their own, are not necessarily reviewed in advance by anyone but the individual authors, and neither Sun nor any other party necessarily agrees with them.

Sounds about as official as a Slashdot post to me.

We all benefit when companies allow and encouragew their employees to blog. Calling blog posts "official" may sex up a /. article, but isn't really accurate.

Anonymous comments (4, Funny)

bigtallmofo (695287) | more than 9 years ago | (#12450110)

"There is no OpenSolaris," read an anonymous post on operating systems news Web site OSNews.com. "Show us the code or quit mentioning it."

Who gets infuriated by anonymous comments with no substance at all?

You shouldn't spend too much brain power responding. The proper response is to respond anonymously with some stock comebacks:

"Says you!"
"Your mom!"

That'll learn'em.

Re:Anonymous comments (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12450147)

Says you!

both do and do not work for Sun (5, Funny)

Threni (635302) | more than 9 years ago | (#12450123)

> There are a lot of us out there who both do and do not work for Sun

Wow! Quantum programmers!

Quantum programmers for ... (1)

ccozan (754085) | more than 9 years ago | (#12450186)

... a Quantum OS ;)

Re:both do and do not work for Sun (2, Funny)

zeromemory (742402) | more than 9 years ago | (#12450242)

Wow! Quantum programmers! So, may if we put them in a box hooked up to a poisonous gas tank...

Re:both do and do not work for Sun (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12450410)

Wow! Quantum programmers!

Not any more, jerk. You changed their employment status by observing it!

vaporware actually means something (5, Informative)

justins (80659) | more than 9 years ago | (#12450131)

"Vaporware" refers to software which the publisher never intended to release, news of which was intended to have an effect on the market.

Slipping on your release date would make just about every software product "vaporware", you retards.

now it means something different (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12450386)

Language changes, retard. That may be what vaporware meant in the old days, but nowadays it is slightly different. These days it can be considered vaporware if the vendor announces it a long long time before it becomes available, for the same reason: to influence the marketplace. There is absolutely no doubt that Sun considers Linux its number one enemy now, so announcing a "Linux killer" open source OS was (and is) far more important than being able to actually produce one in a timely fasion. We saw the exact same behavior with Apple, who boldly proclaimed that they were adopting open source methodology, and then went on to release a closed source OS. Yes yes, I know about Darwin, but that is irrelevant, OS X is a closed source OS.

Thank You Linus (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12450132)

Though Linux wasn't the first or the last open source project, I think it's amazing on some level that Sun Microsystems is mad about somebody accusing them of not giving their OS away for free.

Though it may be due to their loss of Solaris marketshare, the fact that so many resources (and apparently bare emotions) are devoted to open sourcing this software shows how far the business world has come in accepting the concept of free, open code.

I mean, they're practically saying, We're going to give this stuff away for FREE! You'll see! We'll be laughing then!

Believe me, we're laughing now.

Re:Thank You Linus (1)

squiggleslash (241428) | more than 9 years ago | (#12450271)

Nobody's accused Sun of not giving their OS away for free. They've been doing that since Solaris 8 (well, there's the cost of the media, but you could always obtain more licenses for free anyway.)

The issue here is about Sun making an open source version of Solaris, a version Sun can sell at any price, we don't care, as long as people who obtain it aren't saddled with restrictions that prevent them from being able to make changes and distribute those changes in an open source fashion.

Both do and do not work for Sun? (1)

BVis (267028) | more than 9 years ago | (#12450137)

'You only have to speak to anyone involved in getting it out there. There are a lot of us out there who both do and do not work for Sun.'

Both do and do not work for Sun? I wasn't aware the Heisinger Uncertainty Principle applied to employment. If I called to verify employment, would that change his status?

Re:Both do and do not work for Sun? (1)

bigtallmofo (695287) | more than 9 years ago | (#12450425)

Poor little Heisinger... Always taking credit for his cousin Heiseinberg's work.

The AC (1)

Himring (646324) | more than 9 years ago | (#12450153)

Sun Microsystems' developers have responded furiously to claims the company's decision to open-source Solaris was a mere public relations stunt.... "There is no OpenSolaris," read an anonymous post on operating systems news Web site OSNews.com. "Show us the code or quit mentioning it."

That anonymous coward guy -- who's always sending flames up my ass -- sure gets around....

Well duh! (1)

Vapebait (728259) | more than 9 years ago | (#12450159)

'There are a lot of us out there who both do and do not work for Sun.'

What, like everyone?

Re:Well duh! (1)

goldspider (445116) | more than 9 years ago | (#12450314)

More like nobody. You can't have people that both do and do not work for a company; they either do or they don't.

Nonetheless, you are correct in that it was an idiotic statement.

They have been working hard! (2, Funny)

Dante Shamest (813622) | more than 9 years ago | (#12450166)

There are a lot of us out there who both do and do not work for Sun.

Well obviously they have been working hard, since their brain cells have been overworked, causing them to produce Zen sentences like this.

Correct English (5, Insightful)

Morosoph (693565) | more than 9 years ago | (#12450169)

Sun Developers Refute OpenSolaris Vaporwear Claims
'Refute' here should really read 'Deny': the proof is yet to come.

wear? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12450174)

What are you eating under there?

If you're a regular reader of OSNews ... (5, Informative)

nemaispuke (624303) | more than 9 years ago | (#12450175)

then you would know that that the guy who posted is a known troll and despite the efforts of Alan and other Sun employees who monitor OSNews this guy was still "foaming at the mouth". In fact one of the trolls posted his "parting shot" was to call Solaris users "nazis"! I think all of the posts in question have been pulled, because I could not find them.

The problem with OSNews is that it seems to attract the "bottom feeder" users who have little real experience and tend to bitch and whine like children rather than to respond with well thought out arguments and present facts. I have caught people using FUD and outright lies to support their "positions" that Linux is better than Solaris. Well see ...

Boo Fucking Hoo. (-1, Troll)

His name cannot be s (16831) | more than 9 years ago | (#12450180)

Seriously, these guys need to chill the fuck out for a single minute.

Of course people are saying it is vaporware. It's not like Sun has actually released anything. That's because it IS VAPORWARE.

When(***IF***) Sun ever does release it, then perhaps it will cease to be vapor. Until such time, the proof is in the pudding.

Put up or shut up Sun.

Put your code where your Mouth is.

When life gives you lemons, Release Solaris.

In the event of a water landing, you can use your vaporware statements as a flotation device.

Frankly, I'm somewhat appalled at the sun-kids that seem to take offence at our indignance that the code is yet unreleased. At least we'll always have the HURD to look forward to. 'Cause *THAT* we at least know will get released. (chuckle)

*sigh*

Re:Boo Fucking Hoo. (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12450250)

Of course people are saying it is vaporware. It's not like Sun has actually released anything. That's because it IS VAPORWARE.

The Sun guys' point is "vaporware" doesn't mean "not yet released", it means "hyped up but never likely to be released". And they object to that: they've got a clear schedule and it says July.

Re:Boo Fucking Hoo. (2, Insightful)

Errtu76 (776778) | more than 9 years ago | (#12450325)

It's not like Sun has actually released anything. That's because it IS VAPORWARE.

No. That's because it's not released yet. You didn't read the article, right? Or even the postings in the blog(s)?

So according to you everything that is announced to be released, but not released quickly enough, is vaporware.

Who needs to chill out? The people of Sun defending their product, or some kid yelling at a forum for the code to be released because he/she is getting impatient.

*sigh* indeed ...

logical summary (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12450190)

1) OpenSolaris -> exists.a(a works for Sun && not (a works for Sun))

2) exists.a(a works for Sun && not (a works for Sun))

assuming: OpenSolaris
=> Contradiction (1,2)

Thus, by their own logic, there is no Open Solaris.

Kasper

But it is vaporware (3, Insightful)

DrXym (126579) | more than 9 years ago | (#12450234)

Being that vaporware is a term for long announced but unseen software projects. I wouldn't be too put out by someone making such a statement. As soon as the thing is released, such remarks will no longer be required.

Of course the cynic in me might suggest that Sun preannounced the effort far too early, hoping it would sabotage enterprise adoption of Linux. And encourage more people to try out Solaris 10, even if Solaris 10 & Open Solaris are not the same things.

Speaking of SUN.... (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12450244)

Earth's air is cleaner, but this may worsen the greenhouse effect.
http://www.nature.com/news/2005/050502/full/050502 -8.html [nature.com]

Our planet's air has cleared up in the past decade or two, allowing more sunshine to reach the ground, say two studies in Science this week.

Reductions in industrial emissions in many countries, along with the use of particulate filters for car exhausts and smoke stacks, seem to have reduced the amount of dirt in the atmosphere and made the sky more transparent.

That sounds like very good news. But the researchers say that more solar energy arriving on the ground will also make the surface warmer, and this may add to the problems of global warming. More sunlight will also have knock-on effects on cloud cover, winds, rainfall and air temperature that are difficult to predict.

The results suggest that a downward trend in the amount of sunlight reaching the surface, which has been observed since measurements began in the late 1950s, is now over.

The researchers argue that this trend, commonly called 'global dimming', reversed more than a decade ago, probably following the collapse of communist economies and the consequent decrease in industrial pollutants.

The widespread brightening has remained unnoticed until now simply because there wasn't enough data for a statistically significant analysis, says Martin Wild, an atmospheric scientist at the Swiss Federal Institute of Technology in Zurich and an author on one of the reports.

Sunny days

Wild and his team looked at data on surface sunshine levels from hundreds of devices around the planet. They found that since the 1980s there has been a transition from decreasing to increasing solar radiation nearly everywhere, except in heavily polluted areas such as India and at scattered sites in Australia, Africa, and South America1.

A second study, led by Rachel Pinker from the University of Maryland, College Park, found a similar trend by looking at satellite data, although their research suggests the extent of the brightening is smaller2. Unlike ground stations, satellites can sample the whole planet, including the oceans. However, satellite data are difficult to calibrate, and so are considered less accurate than measurements from the ground.

Surprisingly, Wild's study shows a brightening trend in China, despite the fact that there is a booming, fossil-fuel-intensive industry in that country. Wild says he can only speculate that the use of clean-air technologies in China might be more widespread and efficient than has been thought.

In contrast, India's vast brown clouds of smog, which result from wildfires and the use of fossil fuels, have reduced the sunlight reaching the ground.

Just warming up

Researchers will now focus on working out the long-term effects of clearer air. One thing they do know is that black particulate matter in the air has been contributing a cooling effect to the ground. "It is clear that the greenhouse effect has been partly masked in the past by air pollution," says Andreas Macke, a meteorologist at the Leibniz Institute of Marine Sciences in Kiel, Germany.

Uncertainties remain part of the game because scientists have only a limited ability to track cloud cover and particulates, says Macke. Increased cooperation in programmes such as the NASA-led International Satellite Cloud Climatology Project should help to close the gaps in our knowledge of how dirty air affects climate, he says.

Abuse of the English Language (1)

Bazzalisk (869812) | more than 9 years ago | (#12450254)

To refute a claim is show it to be untrue. These guys have merely claimed that it is untrue.

Now that's news (1)

Pedrito (94783) | more than 9 years ago | (#12450279)

Sun announces Open Solaris

Before scheduled release, Anonymous Coward, siting no evidence, no previous examples, claims it's vaporware.

Well gosh, that's certainly news to me. I mean come on. Sun is the one with its reputation on the line. Some idiot who doesn't even identify himself, provides no evidence whatsoever that Sun is being misleading, and that's a big deal? Who cares.

Waiting Patiently. (1)

wvitXpert (769356) | more than 9 years ago | (#12450316)

Well, I for one am waiting patiently. BTW, what am I waiting for? What are the advantages of SUN over Linux?

Re:Waiting Patiently. (1)

wvitXpert (769356) | more than 9 years ago | (#12450334)

Err... Sun Solaris I mean, of course...

a short list: (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12450411)

Solaris is more secure, stable, scaleable and efficient than Linux. It is backed by a solid American corporation with professional programmers who make REAL wages for working on it. And that is just for starters.

Really once Solaris is open source, there will be no more reason for Linux to even exist.

GOAT (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12450320)

This is why open source sucks (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12450332)

Sun is working to give something away for free and all everyone does is whine and cry that they haven't gotten it soon enough. Instead of saying "Why did Sun announce it if it wasn't ready?" why don't we say - if it's not costing you anything then why don't you just shut up and wait paitently or don't bother with it at all? (Either way the shut up part applies).

Re:This is why open source sucks (2, Insightful)

E-Lad (1262) | more than 9 years ago | (#12450390)

I wouldn't say "Open source sucks."

It's more of a case where the open source way of life has turned many people into self-centered brats who refuse to understand any situation outside of what they personally desire.

OpenSolaris Screenshots and Details (1)

gc8005 (733938) | more than 9 years ago | (#12450377)

Go see Dennis Clarke's site: http://www.blastwave.com/ [blastwave.com] Dennis claims it took 2.5 hours to build OpenSolaris and has posted several screenshots.

Where can I download OpenSolaris source code? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12450378)

Oh, that's right, I can't.

People just can't stand Sun's endless stream of BS (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12450385)

What are these people complaining about? I mean, it was Sun's very own Jim Grisanzio who set the tone here. For month he is attacking every critical statement about Sun's OpenSolaris release like a brain-dead pitbull with rabies (appologies to all pitbulls).

And JG is not even funny or imaginative. He is just playing the same old record: "People who complain are stupid.", "People who ask for details are brain dead and don't get it". "OpenSolaris will be released real soon now".

OpenSolaris is indeed vapourware with an GPL incompatible license. And Sun is working very hard to piss of even more programmers.

It is high time for Sun to put up or shut up. That propaganda dog-and-pony show is going on many potential developer's nerves.

blogtards (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12450391)

uhh, maybe if they didn't spend so much time blogging it'd be released by now

I've talked to some people from Sun today ... (2, Informative)

Zenophran (139656) | more than 9 years ago | (#12450394)

and they said that the reason it's taken so long was that they had to buy some IP that they'd previously licensed but couldn't release. They're in the process of finalising that now.
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