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U.S. National Identity Cards All But Law

Zonk posted more than 9 years ago | from the happiness-is-mandatory dept.

Privacy 1083

CompSci101 writes "News.com is running a story about the RealID Card legislation that's been attached to emergency military spending bills to ensure its passage. How soon does everyone think this system will be abused either by the government or by thieves ? The worst part is the completely machine-readable/automatic nature of the thing -- you might not even know you're giving your information away." From the article: "Starting three years from now, if you live or work in the United States, you'll need a federally approved ID card to travel on an airplane, open a bank account, collect Social Security payments, or take advantage of nearly any government service. Practically speaking, your driver's license likely will have to be reissued to meet federal standards."

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1083 comments

Blank Reg (5, Insightful)

ackthpt (218170) | more than 9 years ago | (#12454875)

"Starting three years from now, if you live or work in the United States, you'll need a federally approved ID card to travel on an airplane, open a bank account, collect Social Security payments, or take advantage of nearly any government service.

So how possible would it be to get by without one? Regarding

Practically speaking, your driver's license likely will have to be reissued to meet federal standards."
I expect that would cross the line of States Rights. Perhaps they could enforce it for interstate transportation, but within my state I think there would be a fight against such a thing.

Might as well start writing the check out now to help fund the fight against this thing.

Geez, you'd need to have spent half your life on drugs and alcohol to think this is a good idea and sign it into law.

"Aus Passe!"

Re:Blank Reg (5, Insightful)

AdamWeeden (678591) | more than 9 years ago | (#12454952)

States Rights haven't existed since the Civil War.

Re:Blank Reg (2, Insightful)

ConceptJunkie (24823) | more than 9 years ago | (#12455044)

You're wrong. Every state has the right to kiss the Federal government's butt and it might get some money. Of course what it gives away for that money is another matter.

In all seriousness though, your statement was exactly what I was going to say.

Re:Blank Reg (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12454953)

Geez, you'd need to have spent half your life on drugs and alcohol to think this is a good idea and sign it into law.

I have spent half my life on drugs and alcohol and I still think it's a bad idea!

free pass (2, Insightful)

PopeAlien (164869) | more than 9 years ago | (#12454987)

Might as well start writing the check out now to help fund the fight against this thing.

But why would you want to do that?! This is all about freedom and safety and other comfortable words.

Re:free pass (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12455018)

Cause it's the Mark of the Beast...

Can't bother to RTFA... (1)

Thud457 (234763) | more than 9 years ago | (#12455132)

Are these things gonna have RFID like the new passports? I won't support any national identy card that can't be phished from across the room!

Won't somebody PLEASE think of the terrorists?!!!! And the illegal aliens. And the drug mules. And the human trafficers...

Re:Blank Reg (3, Insightful)

TripMaster Monkey (862126) | more than 9 years ago | (#12455006)



Unfortunately, that's why they attached this thing to an Iraq spending bill...so they could ram it through Congress without actually having to debate the issues...on its own, it was expected to have trouble in the Senate.

Attached to an Iraq spending bill, it will have no trouble passing, and our esteemed President has already expressed his support.

This bill will impose costs on states (driver's licenses)without proper reimbursement, so there's a fighting point right there, but I don't realistically see this being stopped. Instead, it might be better to start thinking about how we might benefit from the imposition of this new technology.

Re:Blank Reg (3, Informative)

Nos. (179609) | more than 9 years ago | (#12455025)

Just move north. Our Privacy Commissioner isn't too likely to let something like identity cards [privcom.gc.ca] happen up here, at least not without a hell of a fight.

Re:Blank Reg (2)

ServeYourWorld (762879) | more than 9 years ago | (#12455185)

You have a privacy commission?!?! I am so jealous. Our fish and wildlife commission is a former lobbiest for a trophy hunting club... :/

Re:Blank Reg (1)

MrAnnoyanceToYou (654053) | more than 9 years ago | (#12455026)

Geez, you'd need to have spent half your life on drugs and alcohol to think this is a good idea and sign it into law

Or possibly an entire life avoiding their 'evils' along with all the other non-conformist things you'd heard were 'wrong' to associate yourself with. Stupidity comes in all forms, and from many sources, but none is as scary as that which comes from following the rules and learning to trust them so much you can't understand people why you wouldn't...

Re:Blank Reg (1)

GamblerZG (866389) | more than 9 years ago | (#12455039)

Geez, you'd need to have spent half your life on drugs and alcohol to think this is a good idea and sign it into law.

Judging by some of the existing laws, couple of years in big politics totally beats drugs and alcohol.

Re:Blank Reg (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12455047)

Geez, you'd need to have spent half your life on drugs and alcohol to think this is a good idea and sign it into law.

Well don't worry, we've got the right man for the job!

RFID chips in IDs: (5, Informative)

TripMaster Monkey (862126) | more than 9 years ago | (#12454882)


From TFA:


The Real ID Act says federally accepted ID cards must be "machine readable," and lets Homeland Security determine the details. That could end up being a magnetic strip, enhanced bar code, or radio frequency identification (RFID) chips.

In the past, Homeland Security has indicated it likes the concept of RFID chips. The State Department is already going to be embedding RFID devices in passports, and Homeland Security wants to issue RFID-outfitted IDs to foreign visitors who enter the country at the Mexican and Canadian borders.
The agency plans to start a yearlong test of the technology in July at checkpoints in Arizona, New York and Washington state.



Looks like devices like these [eweek.com] are going to become very popular very soon...

Also, devices like these [rense.com] could be used to really complicate the lives of people you dislike...

Re:RFID chips in IDs: (4, Funny)

cplusplus (782679) | more than 9 years ago | (#12455000)

or radio frequency identification (RFID) chips
Heh. I guess I'll have to make a tinfoil hat for my driver's license, too.

Re:RFID chips in IDs: (2, Funny)

athakur999 (44340) | more than 9 years ago | (#12455208)

I've heard it's sufficient to simply wear a tin foil hat when you take your driver's license photo.

The guy that said this was wearing a black suit, so he must have been telling the truth.

Re:RFID chips in IDs: (1)

TrumpetPower! (190615) | more than 9 years ago | (#12455057)

What makes you think that such devices will remain legal?

Cheers,

b&

*Please* RTFA (1, Insightful)

daveschroeder (516195) | more than 9 years ago | (#12454911)

I bef of you. Please RTFA [com.com] .

The worst part is the completely machine-readable/automatic nature of the thing -- you might not even know you're giving your information away.

Um. Huh? With the exception of RFID, how in the living hell would you not know you're "giving your information away"?

If, again, the argument is "ease", thanks to a technological change or technology itself, then why do slashdotters always argue in favor of technology elsewhere, but against it here?

- The card will still be issued by your state motor vehicle agency. It will merely be a federally approved, standardized version of your state Driver's License or state Identification Card.

- The process to obtain the card will be more rigorous, and you will have to provide more documents to prove your identity.

- The House *already approved* a standalone version of the Real ID bill, so the fact this is attached to military spending is irrelevant

- IF the standardized "machine readable technology" (which almost all state issues IDs already have in the form of a bar code, magnetic strip, etc.) ends up being RFID, you must at least concede that this standardization is based on consistency, functionality, and ease of use, not a desire to build a nationwide network of centrally administered RFID detectors for the purposes of tracking every citizen

- All of the information on all of the cards is already accessible to any entity that requests identification, such as banks. However, the information will now be presented and stored in a uniform manner.

- If you think that all of these actions are designed exlusively to institute a 1984-style police state by evil conservatives, you probably don't see the illogic in opposing simple standardization of ID cards that already exist.

- All of the items listed - opening bank accounts, collecting social security checks, travelling by air, etc. - already require ID (and if you want to get retarded about the whole air travel thing, go for it. John Gilmore already found he could travel without ID [slashdot.org] (a href=http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=140827&ci d=11799450>2, but it didn't serve his agenda).

Look. I don't mind vigilance for the sake of privacy and individual rights. In fact, I think the vigilance of privacy advocates, the ACLU, etc., is necessary and important. But you must realize that extreme views are almost always not the correct ones. It's the interplay and balance between both sides of a reasonable debate that is important. The people who think a national ID card with a DNA fingerprint and everyone implanted with GPS are wrong, and the people who think that every single bit of legislation like this is part of a corporate/government/Republican conspiracy to control them are also wrong. By all means, fight for your convictions, but if you do it from a not-so-tinfoily perspective, you'll have more chance at convincing others of the validity of your position.

Re:*Please* RTFA (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12454963)

Why the fuck hasn't this been modded up yet? Oh, yeah, this is /. with all the tinfoil hat motherfuckers.

Re:*Please* RTFA (4, Insightful)

stinerman (812158) | more than 9 years ago | (#12455068)

- The House *already approved* a standalone version of the Real ID bill, so the fact this is attached to military spending is irrelevant

Wrong.

1) Rules for a federally approved ID don't belong with a supplemental military spending bill.
2) It means nothing that it was passed by the house. If you follow the article a bit more (part 2):

It was expected to run into some trouble in the Senate. Now that it's part of an Iraq spending bill, senators won't want to vote against it.

Re:*Please* RTFA (1)

Dachannien (617929) | more than 9 years ago | (#12455129)

Riders in the Senate happen all the time. This is neither novel nor shocking.

Re:*Please* RTFA (3, Insightful)

TripMaster Monkey (862126) | more than 9 years ago | (#12455189)



I agree with you completely, with the exception of the 'shocking' part.

Re:*Please* RTFA (0)

daveschroeder (516195) | more than 9 years ago | (#12455173)

Wrong.

Um, no, your statement of "Wrong" would be what's wrong here.

The House already approved a standalone version of the Real ID bill.

1) Rules for a federally approved ID don't belong with a supplemental military spending bill.

I didn't say they did. And a lot of things don't belong in a lot of bills. Next?

2) It means nothing that it was passed by the house.

...

Oh, really? Let me reword for you:

"It means nothing that it was passed by the house if it is also not passed by the senate."

Ok, I'll agree with that. But you forget the converse. In general terms,

"It means nothing that it was passed by the senate if it is also not passed by the house."

The House already had overwhelming support for the standalone bill, and there is no reason to believe it would not have passed in the Senate as well.

It was expected to run into some trouble in the Senate.

Yes. Some people expected it to "run into some trouble".

"Running into trouble" != not passing

And it still likely would have passed. Now it will for sure. And before you repeat that it shouldn't be part of the supplemental, I never said it should be. But it is. But it likely would have passed the House and Senate and been signed by the president regardless.

Re:*Please* RTFA (2, Informative)

TripMaster Monkey (862126) | more than 9 years ago | (#12455135)



I bef of you.

How dare you bef of me!!!

Heh heh...Ok, seriously,


With the exception of RFID, how in the living hell would you not know you're "giving your information away"?


The Department of Homeland Security is already pushing RFID. FTA:


In the past, Homeland Security has indicated it likes the concept of RFID chips.


The House *already approved* a standalone version of the Real ID bill, so the fact this is attached to military spending is irrelevant

I think you missed the point there...the point isn't that the House passed the bill, but that the Senate wasn't expected to. Thus, the attachment of this bill to military spending is entirely relevant, since its chances on its own were poor.

Re:*Please* RTFA (1)

Grant_Watson (312705) | more than 9 years ago | (#12455148)

"If, again, the argument is 'ease,' thanks to a technological change or technology itself, then why do slashdotters always argue in favor of technology elsewhere, but against it here?"

Technology is great because, among other things, it tends to be used to make lots of stuff easier, cheaper, or more powerful. If it involves the federal government and personal data, I would rather most anything be difficult, expensive and weak.

How soon? (5, Funny)

PopeAlien (164869) | more than 9 years ago | (#12454915)

How soon does everyone think this system will be abused either by the government or by thieves ?

you mean theres a difference?

Re:How soon? (5, Insightful)

WormholeFiend (674934) | more than 9 years ago | (#12455109)

Yes.

Government officials almost never go to jail.

At least TFA isn't beating around the bush (5, Informative)

stinerman (812158) | more than 9 years ago | (#12454934)

To wit:

Q: Why did these ID requirements get attached to an "emergency" military spending bill?
Because it's difficult for politicians to vote against money that will go to the troops in Iraq and tsunami relief.


As I have already said in a different discussion, this rider crap needs to stop now.

Re:At least TFA isn't beating around the bush (1)

steve buttgereit (644315) | more than 9 years ago | (#12455038)

The legislation was actually going to be part of different, more contextually appropriate piece of legislation last session. Because the inclusion of this measure threatened that bill, they (the provision's supporters)removed it promising to introduce it as an amendment to the first major piece of legislation this year... which happened to be this military funding bill.

Actually, this was quite above board (meaning public) as these sorts of things go. Especially here in California where there are real issues that this bill will help solve.

Re:At least TFA isn't beating around the bush (1)

fudgefactor7 (581449) | more than 9 years ago | (#12455069)

I suggested this exact same sentiment, along with an explanation, which I called "Legislative Germanity" to my Senators. I can still hear their laughter. It didn't go well. Effectively, what I envision is all parts of a bill must logically link up to the title/subject of the bill, and the subject/title must not be vague or overly broad. What this would do is eliminate craptacular bills, since the bill could only relate to a single concept, while fast-tracking legit "good stuff" because of the same reason. It also would end-run around the unconstitutionality of line item veto by making the President's veto power a stronger item. Everyone wins except those who have their hands in the cookie jar/pork entitlements. But like I said, you can still hear the laughter.

Re:At least TFA isn't beating around the bush (1)

Rakishi (759894) | more than 9 years ago | (#12455182)

...I can only imagine the debates that would result as different groups tried to claim a given bill fits or does not fit the requirement.

Re:At least TFA isn't beating around the bush (1)

jafac (1449) | more than 9 years ago | (#12455184)

As I have already said in a different discussion, this rider crap needs to stop now. ...which is why the party of fiscal responsibility and smaller government, let the "line item veto" lapse.

Whoa! (5, Interesting)

Colin Smith (2679) | more than 9 years ago | (#12454937)

Where's the debate on this?

The "New Labour" government got back in the UK (with a reduced minority) so are going to try to introduce ID cards here, but at least there's going to be a hell of a debate on it now they won't be able to steamroller it through.

http://www.no2id.net/ [no2id.net]

What the hell. (2, Interesting)

j14ast (258285) | more than 9 years ago | (#12454940)

Never mind the facist asking you for your papers for now, I'm 20 and I don't have a license(nor do I want one, I live in a city for a reason). Do I not exist?

Re:You don't exist... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12455116)

If you don't have a passport, dont even have a drivers license, how can anyone take you seriously? No one says you have to USE the drivers license, but not having one says you are some kind of social freak or outcast who does not want to participate in the capitalist system. Business, Government, etc will not take that seriously. You won't get far in the job market, or trying to own a house by simply opting out. Its a pathetic line of reasoning that we have to make special exceptions for people like you.

Don't we already? (1)

nate nice (672391) | more than 9 years ago | (#12454941)

"you'll need a federally approved ID card to travel on an airplane, open a bank account, collect Social Security payments, or take advantage of nearly any government service"

So I can still use my passport?

Ident-i-Eeze (1)

Malicious (567158) | more than 9 years ago | (#12454947)

Is this going to be like a Ident-i-Eeze card which I can use to secure an Unlimited expense account provided I steal it from someone filthy rich?

Oh Boy (2, Insightful)

SengirV (203400) | more than 9 years ago | (#12454948)

Nazi Germany, here we come. Where are your PAPERS!!!!!

Re:Oh Boy (0, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12455100)

I'm pre-emptively invoking godwins law to stop this post from becoming a thread.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law [wikipedia.org]

What about... (1)

hoka (880785) | more than 9 years ago | (#12454949)

People who forgot their information? As it stands now you can still fly if you go through extra security measures, but what will happen in the future? Will they block you and wave goodbye? And what is to stop these cards from being faked anyways, even if there is a central database that will check all of these cards, injection attacks are still possible, and then of course there are malicious users. Furthermore, what about rejecting the bill, or preventing it from being attached? This article seems to be talking about "The end is neigh" as opposed to why it is near.

Like all this growth in government (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12454951)

It will do little to stop criminals, because criminals have never cared about the rules, but decent American citizens will have to jump through hoops and come to accept presenting papers to travel in-country just like those Soviets we looked down on.

Pretty sad. (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12454960)

We never had real freedom here in this part of europe. People used to dream of travelling to the USA, the land of the free.

Americans had freedom and are willingly throwing it away. All it takes for evil to triumph is for a few good men to do nothing. WAKE UP!

Nice trick (5, Insightful)

sg3000 (87992) | more than 9 years ago | (#12454967)

Wow, is anyone else surprised CNET put this in here:

> Why did these ID requirements get attached to an "emergency" military
> spending bill?
?
> Because it's difficult for politicians to vote against money that will go to the troops
> in Iraq and tsunami relief. The funds cover ammunition, weapons, tracked combat
> vehicles, aircraft, troop housing, death benefits, and so on.

The Republicans control congress and the executive branch now, and they wanted [house.gov] to have this National ID bill. By attaching this to a wholly unrelated military spending bill, the so-called advocates of small government will get their national ID card wish.

As an interesting aside it's funny that they chose to stick this into a military spending bill for Iraq. Anyone recall that the Bush Administration told us told this war was going to cost? I thought this was was supposed to cost between $10 and $100 billion [salon.com] ? We're already more than three times the high end figure, with no end in sight. This is the fourth emergency allocation of money Bush has asked for for his war "on the cheap".

Anyway, make no mistake about it. The Republicans are now using their complete control to railroad this bill through, by sticking this thing in a military spending bill. It's a perfect catch-22. If the Democrats voted against it, they would have been accused of being against our troops (John Kerry, please take some time to describe how that feels). If they voted for it, it miraculously becomes a bipartisan bill so the Republicans can pass the blame around to evade responsibility. Even after this, the Democrats can be accused of "flip-flopping" since they voted against the national ID before, and now they're voting for it when it's buried in a military spending bill (Senator Kerry, your turn again). Wow, it's a win-win-win situation for the Republicans.

Of course, for the Democrats and the public in general, it's a nice lose-lose-lose situation though. Maybe a brave Democrat can filibuster this bill so it doesn't get railroaded through. Oh, wait, the Republicans want to get rid of the filibuster [nytimes.com] , too.

I call upon all the Democratic senators and representatives who read Slashdot to stop this as soon as possible! There. I've done my part.

I wonder... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12455053)

I also wonder when the cost of occupation of Iraq will be too high. 500 billion? 1 trillion? Draft?

Liberalism is a mental disorder... (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12455161)

Republicans do control the house, senate, executive, etc. So what makes you think that when they pass republican legislation anyone but flaming liberals will be upset?

Sheesh... have you ever heard of a passport? Why don't you save your righteous outrage for people like NAMBLA instead. OH WAIT. Sorry, I forgot they are on your team.

Re:Nice trick (1)

chandoni (28843) | more than 9 years ago | (#12455227)

Actually, all Democratic senators and representatives do these days is read Slashdot.

The real problem (5, Informative)

skraps (650379) | more than 9 years ago | (#12454969)

The real problem is that our legislature is so broken that it is possible to "attach" stupid bills to other unrelated bills.

1984 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12454973)

I guess it's about time, they're already 21 years late.

For the . . . (1)

JJ (29711) | more than 9 years ago | (#12454974)

reduction in the chance of future terrorism via jet hijacking, I'll take a little bit of compromising my privacy.

Re:For the . . . (1)

nagora (177841) | more than 9 years ago | (#12455027)

reduction in the chance of future terrorism via jet hijacking,

Yes, because knowing that they'll be identified from their personal effects after the rubble has been sifted will really put such hijackers off.

TWW

Re:For the . . . (1)

ClosedSource (238333) | more than 9 years ago | (#12455103)

That might be a resonable trade-off if it really worked.

It's interesting to me that most of the security changes that have been made since 9/11 have a common property: they wouldn't have prevented it.

Re:For the . . . (1)

NiceGeek (126629) | more than 9 years ago | (#12455105)

People like you will be the end of freedom. I'll spare you the Ben Frankin quote since you'd probably consider him a terrorist sympathiser.

Re:For the . . . (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12455112)

chance to get the boot off my friggin' neck, I'll take a little bit of insecurity.

Re:For the . . . (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12455122)

Yuo == teh stupid.

Re:For the . . . (1)

LynchMan (76200) | more than 9 years ago | (#12455160)

reduction in the chance of future terrorism via jet hijacking, I'll take a little bit of compromising my privacy.


"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin

Re:For the . . . (5, Insightful)

Foamy (29271) | more than 9 years ago | (#12455197)

Those who give up a little freedom for putative security neither deserve, nor shall receive either.

This ID card will NOT make you any safer in any way whatsoever.

Let's use the old NRA argument here. One of the main reasons the NRA is opposed to gun registration (excluding their interpretation of the 2nd Amendment) is that criminals will not register their guns, thus only legitimate gun owners will be registered and potentially tracked.

This national ID is exactly the same. Do you really think that the Terrorists will go to the DMV and say, "Hi, I'm Osama Bin Laden, I'd like my Driver's license today. Thank you?" Do you really think they won't be able to get fake credentials that are as good as these IDs or can be used to get a legitimate ID?

And finally, do you really think that the government won't abuse this new power (i.e. knowleged of your every purchase, move, travel, etc.)? Who do you think will hold and compile these data? My guess is an Oracle based system. Do you really think that our corporatocracy will keep this information away from corporations?

Can you imagine how much corporations would pay to know your every move, flight, purchase, hotel reservation, rental, etc. etc. etc? These data are worth billions upon billions and they won't be sitting idly in some database in DC doing nothing.

Re:For the . . . (1)

dr_dank (472072) | more than 9 years ago | (#12455210)

reduction in the chance of future terrorism via jet hijacking, I'll take a little bit of compromising my privacy.

/me looks at script

ok, Ben Franklin quote enter stage left... now!

Soc. Sec. Cards have been used for years. (4, Insightful)

SB5 (165464) | more than 9 years ago | (#12454983)

Soc. Sec. Cards have been used for years as a form of National ID, I welcome this, just wish it was more secure and private.

Abuse (4, Interesting)

Ctrl-Z (28806) | more than 9 years ago | (#12454984)

How soon does everyone think this system will be abused either by the government or by thieves?

Probably about as quickly as emergency military spending bills have been abused to pass RealID Card legislation.

Ugh (1)

seneces (839286) | more than 9 years ago | (#12454992)

I see http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/pizzacall [albinoblacksheep.com] coming true soon. Goodbye privacy, nice knowing you.

Someone needs to make a stand against these growing attempts to watch over every part of our lives, before it goes too far.

``Papers, please.'' (1)

TrumpetPower! (190615) | more than 9 years ago | (#12454993)

``Papers, please.''

Cheers,

b&

Warning: Alarmist Article (2, Insightful)

Kainaw (676073) | more than 9 years ago | (#12455008)

FTA:
"Practically speaking, your driver's license likely will have to be reissued to meet federal standards."

What standards doesn't my driver's license have? Again, FTA:
At a minimum: name, birth date, sex, ID number, a digital photograph, address, and a "common machine-readable technology" that Homeland Security will decide on.

Checking my driver's license:
[x] Name
[x] Birth Date
[x] Sex
[x] ID Number
[x] Digital Photograph
[x] Address
[x] Machine-readable technology: both a magstrip and a barcode.

What states are issuing driver's licenses without this information on them?

So how's this different to now? (1)

AnonymousJackass (849899) | more than 9 years ago | (#12455009)

you'll need a federally approved ID card to travel on an airplane, open a bank account, collect Social Security payments, or take advantage of nearly any government service

When I came to the U.S. I had no Social Security number and no drivers licence. With the exception of airplane travel I was unable to all of those things anyway. Everywhere I went, I was asked for my SSN of drivers licence. Showing them a UK passport did nothing.

Now I have a Green Card -- it has my fingerprint on it, photo of me, and a huge magnetic strip on the back that almost certainly contains my life history/DNA, etc! So do I care about "invasion of my privacy"? Do I care about having to get another ID card to be able to function in this country? No, I'm doing it every day already!

Gosh, finally (1)

BitterAndDrunk (799378) | more than 9 years ago | (#12455012)

We're one step closer to Ident-i-Eeze cards. And I can't wait! No more remembering passwords or ATM numbers!

Americans Abroad? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12455016)

Does anybody know how this will affect Americans living abroad? I don't just mean overseas... I'm right next door in Canada. I have an Ontario driver's license. Presumably, I'll still just be using my Passport once this goes into effect (I hope).

Alreday have one (1)

saterdaies (842986) | more than 9 years ago | (#12455024)

My ID card is already machine readable. All drivers licenses in Massachusetts have a 2-dimentional barcode on them. I'm sure that a lot of other states have these barcodes or mag-stripes. I don't think it's going to make much of a difference in that department.

Now, if people actually start reading the information on my car with readers, that would be a huge change. I'm not too worried about this because I know when I hand someone my license that I'm handing over information. Now, if it were an RFID setup - that's SCARY! Imagine people being able to see your license without your knowledge. It's one thing to make it mandatory for me to show ID for something. It's another for someone to look at it without me handing it to them. **shudder**

Federal ID Cards (1)

Princess Tarja (876619) | more than 9 years ago | (#12455030)

Hello Big Brother revisted..
How can they exepct to do this? they cant even police our borders and keep out the great unwanted. And will they train airport employees to discern a legal card from a counterfeit ? There are many rules/reg already on the books but in the real world cannot/are not ever put into effect. Will state issued drivers licenses & id cards be invalid now?
And what's the military have to do with this? (aside from post 9/11 paranoia) Just another excuse for big brother to get into our pants (or skirt in this case) and watch us. The gov needs to focus on other things more pressing right now. Excuse me while I go encrypt my swap partition

RFID hackers anyone? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12455042)

...In the past, Homeland Security has indicated it likes the concept of RFID chips. The State Department is already going to be embedding RFID devices in passports, and Homeland Security wants to issue RFID-outfitted IDs to foreign visitors who enter the country at the Mexican and Canadian borders...

Looks like it's time to get out your little tin foil hats for your passport and id card!

How is this different from passports? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12455043)

Anyone who's anything has a passport already. If you don't, you ain't sh*t. If you do, why are you bitching?

Typical slashdot liberalism getting in the way of news for nerds and / or stuff that matters.

We already have these... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12455045)

..they are called Social Security cards. You need a SSN to get a loan, open a bank account, get a drivers licence anyway. Seems they are just going to slap a barcode/RFID on them.

Re:We already have these... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12455204)

Oh, like passports you mean? LOL.... why is this wasting space on slashdot?!??!

This doesn't really worry me (1)

MetalliQaZ (539913) | more than 9 years ago | (#12455049)

Like the summary says, we already have these cards in the form of driver's licenses. We already have to show a drivers license or passport for most of the stuff we do, and provide a SSN. Basically, the only people I see being affected by this are illegal aliens that can't obtain one of these new cards.

-d

Why can't they... (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12455055)

Why can't they just pass a law that only allows one law per bill. I'm tired of this kind of political bs that they can get away with - attaching these types of little things at the end just to get it through. I can imagine there will be a "preferred" vendor of these cards/equipment and they amazingly increased their spending in congressional pocket lining... err.. lobbying this year to get 'er done!

Yeah... but... er.. we are free! (-1, Flamebait)

Ken Broadfoot (3675) | more than 9 years ago | (#12455059)

Uh, If you don't like move to another country...

GWB! 4 more years!

Yea! .....

Actually, we are moving dangerously close to why America exists in the first place.

I got into an argument with a barteneder not to long ago. He said you must have an ID or I can't server you. I agreed. But the I mentioned that technically we live in an ID-less society. He called me a dumbass and said you MUST carry ID at all times...

I asked him when the last time someone ever got CONVICTED for not having ID.

He said they can hold you for 72 hours...

I said again... What is the charge? What is the sentence? For not having ID?

He the called me an asshole.

"Where are you papers!"

Fuck the government...
God Bless America...

--ken

Wonderful... (1)

sjbe (173966) | more than 9 years ago | (#12455062)

One more unnecessary piece of identification that everyone will ask for and thieves to steal. I already have a social security card, driver's licence, passport, birth certificate, two credit cards, video rental card, insurance card, health insurance card, AAA card and somehow this isn't enough? How on earth is one more ID card, administered by one more bureacracy going to accomplish anything other than making it easier for thieves to steal my identity. Hell I'll have to present all the above cards to "prove" that I am who I say I am despite the fact that all of those can be (and regularly are) forged/stolen.

Gotta love our lawmakers. Solving problems nobody asked them to.

This wasn't designed to fight terrorism. (1, Informative)

Loundry (4143) | more than 9 years ago | (#12455064)

Neither was the Patriot Act, for that matter. Perhaps since you read slashdot you're aware of the many number of investigations under the Patriot act that had nothing to do with terrorism.

The government has been wanting even more control of our liberty for a long time, but us individualistic, stubborn Americans just weren't having any of it. 9/11 and terrorism are the excuse, not the reason, for these new intrusions on our liberty.

It's going to get worse before it gets any better. And what's even sadder is that terrorists can still get us. It seems that the small-government Republicans have their priorities in order: destroy liberty first, then maybe do something about terrorism (after pracising some heavy borrow-and-spend).

And people wonder why I vote Libertarian!

Attached to emergency spending bill (1)

834r9394557r011 (878286) | more than 9 years ago | (#12455070)

"...RealID Card legislation that's been attached to emergency military spending bills to ensure its passage." A similar thing happened with our conceal and carry law last year. It was attached ot a completely unrelated bill to try and improve its chances of being passed (which it did). However later that year it was found unconstitutional, and was repealed, due to the fact that it was attachedto a bill having nothing to do with one another. I would like to know how this is any different or "more unconstitutional" than what happened with our conceal and carry bill.

Destroy the magnetic strip. (1)

LouCifer (771618) | more than 9 years ago | (#12455072)

Who here has a couple of dead HDDs lying around? Raise your hands.

Cut 'em open with a dremel.
Remove the magnets
Expose the magnetic strip to said magnets

Thats one way to reduce the chances of your government-issued ID card of being "abused".

Like they're going to force me to get it reissued. I'll just blame it on their crappy equipment.

And there are plenty of places on the 'net that will show you how to build your own card readers. Surely it won't be long before we get standardized ID cards that someone will post a how-to on building your own card reader so the paranoid curious can read just what's on their card. That is, unless they're DMCA locked. ;-)

Re:Destroy the magnetic strip. (1)

goldspider (445116) | more than 9 years ago | (#12455193)

Thats one way to reduce the chances of your government-issued ID card of being "abused".

That's also one way to get arrested for posessing a fake ID card. If an officer's equipment can't read the card, what is he/she supposed to think of its authenticity?

Papers Comrade? (1)

bombadillo (706765) | more than 9 years ago | (#12455085)

Enough said.

ugh (1)

rwven (663186) | more than 9 years ago | (#12455091)

That's all we need. I'm a hardcore republican/conservative but i sure as heck want to know where the republican stand on "no big government" went. Patriot act i can even stand, but a forced act like this is really kinda pathetic. When someone decides to stand at the entrance of an airport with an RFID reader picking up identities, that's gonna be a problem...

Emergency military spending bill (4, Insightful)

MobyDisk (75490) | more than 9 years ago | (#12455097)

The real tragedy here is not the use of a national ID. There are legitimate merits to both sides of that discussion, and I will not address them here. The real tragedy is that this is an "Emergency military spending bill" which a HUGE rider on it.

This is why the line item veto [loc.gov] was popular, despite being blatently unconstitutional. A few congress persons sitting on a committee can completely disrupt the validity of a bill. Nobody is going to veto a bill that gives money to the military and be responsible for leaving them high and dry. And the bill also gives tsunami aid. Nobody will veto that either.

It should be unconstitutional to place this type of stuff on a bill. It is also highly irresponsible of our congress people to not flame anyone who tries to do this stuff. I don't know how to word the ammendment, but it would probably do a LOT to clean up some of the obnoxious laws that sneak into place.

Additional Information (2, Informative)

commonchaos (309500) | more than 9 years ago | (#12455099)

I've been collecting links which can be viewed at del.icio.us under the "realid" tag [del.icio.us]

Feel free to make your own del.icio.us account and add to the collection.

Yellow Star (1)

Walrus99 (543380) | more than 9 years ago | (#12455102)

Just be sure that your card isn't marked "Juden."

Or worse yet ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12455162)

"American Middle Class Taxpayer".

That's the dude that's gonna get screwed by this "New World Order" crap.

Interesting connection to bible... (1)

BytePusher (209961) | more than 9 years ago | (#12455123)

Now, I'm certain most everyone has heard of the evil number 666... well just... read. Not that I'm saying this card is "the mark," but it's amazing how close the mark as described in Revelation resembles some of the technologies for tracking people that are being proposed today.

Revelation 13:
16He also forced everyone, small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on his right hand or on his forehead, 17so that no one could buy or sell unless he had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of his name.

18This calls for wisdom. If anyone has insight, let him calculate the number of the beast, for it is man's number. His number is 666.

Ha ha ha. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12455126)

We got 30 million illegal aliens swarming through the streets.

all but law

Ha ha ha. What a joke.

National ID was Inevitable (1)

CodeBuster (516420) | more than 9 years ago | (#12455140)

It is unfortunate that it has come to this, but how much longer could we in the United States or indeed anywhere else in the world continue to operate as nations with national identities in the face of massive global migrations of illegal immigrant populations? The national identity card has drawbacks to be sure, but it is finally, perhaps, the only way to avoid the loss of national integrity and social meltdown that would otherwise occur in the decades ahead as population growth spiraled out of control.

From the notebook of Lazarus Long (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12455141)

In the words of a Heinlein:

"When a place gets crowded enough to require ID's, social collapse is not far away. It is time to go elsewhere. The best thing about space travel is that it made it possible to go elsewhere."
-Lazarus Long

Choices (1)

PreDefined (787636) | more than 9 years ago | (#12455144)

So now I'm wondering which future-past-future scenario I'd rather watch play out in front of my eyes.
  • America: 1984, The Second Coming?
  • America: A New Deal - Part 2, Return of the Great Depression?

Would you rather lose rights? or riches?

Bullshit (1)

ifwm (687373) | more than 9 years ago | (#12455149)

This is another example of the idiots who write the headlines exaggerating the situation.

There's plenty of discussion about this currently, with all the same people for and against it. No one is going to sneak this one in.

Claiming it's "all but law" is like claiming slasdot is "all but accurate"

If I remember correctly... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12455153)

I remember when this National ID Card idea was considered during the Reagan years (some would say the Pre-Presidency Presidency of George Bush the First).

It is said that 'The Gipper' heard about the idea and said simply, "Why don't we just number them all '666'?"

The idea was dropped from then on. I wonder what brings it up again?

As a non-US citizen... (3, Interesting)

MarcoAtWork (28889) | more than 9 years ago | (#12455159)

... could somebody please explain me how exactly this whole concept of 'rider' bills got started and, most important, how it continues without being made illegal?

Who exactly has the authority to 'attach' things to a bill? If I was a politician and was sure that a bill had a 100% chance of passing (say, one of these 'emergency, need money for our troops' bills), what would prevent me from attaching to it a few pork projects for the people who elected me for example?

I'm going to tatoo my number onto my forehead!!! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12455174)

616

Nice touch (1)

BandwidthHog (257320) | more than 9 years ago | (#12455177)

I like the sample image [com.com] they used.

New checkout option (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12455192)

Do you want paper or plastic sir?

I'll take Lead ... but Alluminum will do thank you :)

this is bullshit, repubs + democrats = SHITPILE (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12455199)

Of course this is bullshit. There's 2 million gringos crossing the rio grande every year and they don't give a damn about any id, they won't need id to get work, get welfare, health care and all sorts of other welfare state benefits..

This will help prevent another 9/11 hijacking ? bullshit. The terrorists will just register for these stupid fucking cards or have them conterfeited.

All bullshit! We're just a bunch of fucking cattle now, why not brand me with a serial code, that'd be easier.. or how about a tatoo, ya, a nice tatoo on my forearm with my id #.

This is all being done in the name of freedom! yaaaaaaaaaaa, Let's Roll Mr. Bush and you scum sucking bastard congressmen

my hat! where's my tinfoil hat! (1)

Dun Malg (230075) | more than 9 years ago | (#12455215)

News.com is running a story about the RealID Card legislation that's been attached to emergency military spending bills to ensure its passage. How soon does everyone think this system will be abused either by the government or by thieves ?

Put your tinfoil hat away, man. The real purpose of this bill is not to build some massive government tracking system, but to prevent states from issuing driver's licenses to illegal immigrants. The idea is that your driver's license should continue to be taken as legitimate proof that you are either a) a citizen, or b) a legal resident. The issue was that some states were considering accepting Mexican matricular cards as sufficient proof of identity in issuing driver's licenses and that the matricular cards are not just easily forged, but easy to get in a false name from the Mexican government itself.

tin-foil wallets (1)

amigabill (146897) | more than 9 years ago | (#12455217)

OK all you foil hat types, start working on a tin-foil insert to protect the contents of my wallet!
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