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Simple, Bare-Bones Motherboards?

timothy posted more than 9 years ago | from the keep-it-simple-stupid dept.

Hardware 627

basic0 writes "After my Windows box recently lost its life in a puff of awful smelling smoke, I tracked the fault to the motherboard. Now I'm in the market for a replacement board, but all the boards I find seem to be all-in-one models with on-board everything. I already have a good graphics card, NIC, USB audio device, etc. I just need a no-frills motherboard like I used to be able to buy. It seems like a waste to buy a board with all the built-in stuff (and probably pay extra for it) when I'm never going to use it. Has anyone else had similar experiences? Do a lot of people actually use the on-board stuff? Is it still possible to purchase a motherboard that's *just* a motherboard?"

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fp (-1, Offtopic)

lintmint (539531) | more than 9 years ago | (#12465313)

hah!

Call Sun (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12465315)

Call Sun, they have some for sale...

FIGURES! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12465316)

Google gets hacked and slashdot fails to even notice!

But I'm sure we can expect this to get posted twice tomorrow when the slashdot janitors finally get around to reading some news - but not reading their own site!

Is it just me or has this blog really been sucking lately?

Re:FIGURES! (1)

TechnologyX (743745) | more than 9 years ago | (#12465360)

Its been sucking for a long ass time

Re:FIGURES! (1)

civilizedINTENSITY (45686) | more than 9 years ago | (#12465470)

Following up on an offtopic post, but:

http://addict3d.org/index.php?page=viewarticle&t ype=news&ID=6671
(Includes a link to a timeline)

"For an unknown reason, Google had a DNS problem that caused all of their online services not to loading by writing their URL in your web browser.br> It's funny that most people thought their ISP gone mad, before even thinking that the problem might be at Google.br> Anyway the almighty machine returned to life after 1 hour of being down, the rumors regarding how they were hacked or hijacked seems to be false."

I have a tyan MB (0, Offtopic)

cachimaster (127194) | more than 9 years ago | (#12465319)

Its fast, 64 bits-enabled, so fast that i can make a FP. heh

Ops... (0, Offtopic)

dark-br (473115) | more than 9 years ago | (#12465325)

Second post :) But not bad anyways ;)

Re:Ops... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12465516)

Second post :) But not bad anyways ;)

Why do people just write "first post" or "second post" and not add anything to the discussion? Who cares what sequence your post comes into the discussion -- especially if you have nothing else to say? It really says nothing special about you. Instead people think less about you that you care so much about being second, first, or last post. What people care about is what you can add to the discussion. Some people are so concerned with surface that they forget about substance.

Re:I have a tyan MB (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12465334)

Yeah, your failure really sold me on Tyan! (sarcasm)

You'll end up paying more (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12465322)

You end up paying more for a bare-bones motherboard because of their rarity.

Re:You'll end up paying more (5, Interesting)

Trizor (797662) | more than 9 years ago | (#12465391)

And besides, there are all sorts of advantages to the redundancy the cards you already have will provide. Should something go bad, you'll have a back up, as well as a control set to compare against test results. I'd say get a board with onboard components and maximise yoru use. 2 NICs is especially nice if you find your self in a situation that requires odd network topology and weird on box configurations.

Re:You'll end up paying more (1)

Trizor (797662) | more than 9 years ago | (#12465418)

Of course, if you look out of x86 you can find plenty of just mother boards. Itanium2, Power, SPARC, Alpha...

Re:You'll end up paying more (5, Informative)

morcego (260031) | more than 9 years ago | (#12465394)

You end up paying more for a bare-bones motherboard because of their rarity.

Actually, it is a correct, if limited, summation.

When you think on market scale production, one fact is simple: the more you produce, th lower the individual unity cost. That is why, today, a dot-matrix printer is more expensive than a laser one.

Considering the great majority of motherboards produced are those "on-board" models, and the demand for "clean" boards is small (and getting smaller each passing day), the natural tendency is that the production cost pre unit for a clean board is higher.

On the other hand, I do like clean boards better. The chances of a failure is reduced, since the number of components is reduced too. That can also lead for a higher durability.

So, as far as I'm concerned, the "on-board" mobos are cheaper when you buy then, but clean ones tend to be cheaper on the long run. At least for me, since I never throw away a working computer. I just move it to other functions (disk server, firewalls etc).

Re:You'll end up paying more (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12465414)

Apparently the comma key is a little comma-happy on those all-in-one systems.

Re:You'll end up paying more (4, Interesting)

NanoGator (522640) | more than 9 years ago | (#12465405)

"You end up paying more for a bare-bones motherboard because of their rarity."

I doubt there's much price difference anyway. The reason why mobos have on board lan, for example, is they can add it really cheaply.

Frankly, I wouldn't want a mobo without the frills. Integrated Nic is nice. On-board sounds means there's a backup. On board video, provided you still have an AGP port, can also be used as a backup. When the machine's retired, it can easily be given to somebody else.

Re:You'll end up paying more (0, Redundant)

wizardguy (245100) | more than 9 years ago | (#12465448)

I second that. Might as well use all the onboard stuff and sell the cards (if anyone would buy them) Also you save on slots(but you don't have anything to put there except a great PCI express graphics card )

wow (1)

bryan986 (833912) | more than 9 years ago | (#12465323)

why dont you look for one instead of wasting the time to post a silly story on slashdot

FP (2, Funny)

zelphior (668354) | more than 9 years ago | (#12465326)

Could it be?

Anyways, I'm in the same boat. I havnt had any luck finding a good motherboard that supports my ram (184 pin RIMM).

Re:FP (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12465380)

Did anyone else read "I haven't had any fuck finding a good motherboard ..."?

Re:FP (0, Offtopic)

Hallowed (229057) | more than 9 years ago | (#12465451)

I did, weird.....

Re:FP (0)

raehl (609729) | more than 9 years ago | (#12465447)

I havnt had any luck finding a good motherboard that supports my ram (184 pin RIMM).

Sounds like your motherboard needs a RIMM job.

Re:FP (2, Informative)

the eric conspiracy (20178) | more than 9 years ago | (#12465487)

Did you try this [google.com] ?

Nah (3, Insightful)

hardburn (141468) | more than 9 years ago | (#12465327)

I don't think they're sold anymore, and they're so cheep now that you wouldn't save much, anyway. Just ignore whatever extras come with the board.

In fact, you just might save a few bucks in the long run by using the on-board stuff, since it may use less power than the equivilent slot-based stuff.

Re:Nah (2, Informative)

xSauronx (608805) | more than 9 years ago | (#12465430)

indeed, if you want a cheap mobo, get a used name-brand one. Id gladly pick up a used Epox or Asus board if the Asus Im using right now died on me, and I wouldnt have a complaint about price, or concern about quality.

Anything made in the last few years is usually thoroughly reviewed on at least one hardware site, if not several; and checking support forums for something old will let you know what to expect...how to fix it...or if its problem free. The Asus I have (A7N8X iirc) has been stable and trouble free since the day i bought it, and the Epox I had before that was the same until i tried overvolting...but that was my fault :)

More importantly... (4, Insightful)

raehl (609729) | more than 9 years ago | (#12465502)

There's a good chance that the integrated stuff he's going to get for free anyway is actually BETTER than the expansion cards he's so insanely keen on continuing to use.

Welcome to the reality of computer components - there's no value in trying to save old tech.

pricewatch (0)

datapt (447252) | more than 9 years ago | (#12465329)

www.pricewatch.com should do the trick

Re:pricewatch (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12465361)

Amen to that brother. As long as it took to post to slashdot, the dude could have had a new mobo installed. He is probably the fifteenth person to submit this ask slashdot question anyway, the first 14 being rejected for some reason.

He might also look at www.froogle.com. Pretty fucking amazing how a search engine can find things. These new fangled internet 'sites' are great.

Second post? (0, Offtopic)

cachimaster (127194) | more than 9 years ago | (#12465336)

Come on! i am the only one?? ohh...its saturday night...damn i am lonely...

Cheapness (4, Insightful)

cortana (588495) | more than 9 years ago | (#12465338)

Motherboards are so cheap nowadays that you may as well buy one and disable all the stuff you're not going to use. I guess it's because they are produced in such numbers, that onboard audio/network chips cost mere pennies. It would probably cost the manufacturer more to sell two products, one without the extras.

hmm (1)

spadgerclogtoe (882264) | more than 9 years ago | (#12465339)

if a nic costs £4, and ditto for sound, i wouldnt worry about onboard, since the price is negligable

Yes, Look harder... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12465340)

If you can't figure out where to get one, maybe you shouldn't be building your own computer.

then dont use it (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12465341)


now that Lan controllers/video/sound cards have been shrunken into a single chip adding 50c to the price who frickin cares ?
its like cellphones, we have solved those features a long time ago so now we can include them on a chip for peanuts, or do you want to keep paying to re-invent the wheel ?

Re:then dont use it (2, Insightful)

peragrin (659227) | more than 9 years ago | (#12465410)

Because the more you have the more things that can go wrong.

running dual video cards and disabling one of them works, but you never really know what's going on. maybe the driver required to disable that onboard card is what goes puff and loses it's magic.

You should be able to build a computer without extra's if you so choose.

And why do modern boards still have serial and Parralell ports? They aren't used by 75% of the rest of the world, why are they even included as standard on ALL boards? On Some us because they still have some value but ALL?

I am damn glad Mac's have eliminated all the old hardware ports that don't play nice.

Re:then dont use it (5, Insightful)

SydShamino (547793) | more than 9 years ago | (#12465452)

>> And why do modern boards still have serial and Parralell ports? They aren't used by 75% of the rest of the world, why are they even included as standard on ALL boards? On Some us because they still have some value but ALL?

My new (as of January) Dell at work doesn't have them. It just has 6 USB ports (8, if you also count the two on the front).

Dell can remove them, because they are selling a complete system and know that customers don't need a PS2 keyboard slot, for example.

The separate motherboard vendors still include them because it is cheaper to sell one motherboard version than it is to sell two, where one has a reduce featureset.

In a few more years they will be phased out. It just takes time. ISA took forever to be phased out as well. PCI is obsolete now, too, but even you might hope that they keep a few PCI slots around for a few years until all your old PCI add-on cards have been replaced. (Assuming you don't use all motherboard built-in features.)

Re:then dont use it (1)

Doppler00 (534739) | more than 9 years ago | (#12465477)

And the floppy disk and IDE connectors are still hanging around... They just don't get it. I'd be willing to pay a $100 premium for a board with 8 SATA ports, 2 NICs, 8 USB, and 3 firewire ports on the back with no more legacy devices.

all-in-one boards... (5, Insightful)

l33td00d42 (873726) | more than 9 years ago | (#12465342)

... are cheaper in my experience, since they're geared toward the value market.

quit yer whining and buy a motherboard.

extras (2, Funny)

prurientknave (820507) | more than 9 years ago | (#12465343)

Yea that zemtobit internet is such superfluous addition.

What you complaining about? (4, Insightful)

Agret (752467) | more than 9 years ago | (#12465344)

I already have a good graphics card, NIC, USB audio device, etc.
Well you don't want an on-board graphics card. Just ignore that. If you have an on-board NIC you can remove your PCI card and free up a slot. On-board audio is damn good these days. I paid $80 for a gigabyte board with all the on-board shit and I only use on-board NIC & Sound. They aren't very expensive and if you don't like the on-board stuff then don't use it!

Re:What you complaining about? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12465396)

> Well you don't want an on-board graphics card.

Why not? I've been using onboard graphics happily for more than a year. Why wouldn't I want to use it?

Re:What you complaining about? (1)

Jeff DeMaagd (2015) | more than 9 years ago | (#12465421)

If it shares memory with system memory, I've seen onboard graphics drags down system performance. Sometimes on-board memory means no expansion slot to upgrade the graphics card.

If a person wants to play games, well, I haven't seen a desktop motherboard with integrated ATI 95xx+ or nVidia 5xxx series graphics or better.

Re:What you complaining about? (2, Informative)

ergo98 (9391) | more than 9 years ago | (#12465424)

Probably because onboard graphics usually stink.

In contrast, Onboard NICs, USB and firewire controllers, and even audio cards (the SoundStorm stuff on nvidia boards, before they copped out of sound, is absolutely superb) on motherboards are generally all top notch.

you paid $80 for a gigabyte board? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12465458)

man, you're retarded.

YES (4, Funny)

TechnologyX (743745) | more than 9 years ago | (#12465345)

Awesome story, again! Google gets DNS jacked and we get to help this fucknut find a motherboard, and it will probably be posted 4 more times this week by timothy and CowboyNeal HOORAY OFR /.

Re:YES (1, Troll)

Pete Brubaker (35550) | more than 9 years ago | (#12465369)

Agreed... What a waste...

Re:YES (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12465371)

Are you people still on about Google, go bitch about something that is STILL down, like seti@home.

Re:YES (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12465521)

Curious what you would consider a legitimate question? Are we down to only posting obscure questions about code writing or networking? I had the nerve a while back to post a query about ram speed and operating systems related to render farms for 3D rendering. I was interested in $ verses performance. It's hard to get real world information on the subject yet I was given a similar reaction by several posters. Unless you've had a chance to try every combination out there it's a legitimate question.

As to the current poster I had researched the same subject and had come to the same conclusion everyone else, just ignore the redunadant features. For basic tasks most are adequate anyway. Video Cards obviously being the dodgiest thing on most boards. The built in networking and sound are decent and I don't miss having to configure them. It may not be the most brain or experience taxing question but it definately seems to have provoked discussion since you found it worthy of whinning over.

For the most part... (-1, Troll)

Sheetrock (152993) | more than 9 years ago | (#12465346)

x86 hardware has this all-in-one approach, so I'd say you're pretty much out of luck. Which is a shame because the more they put on the board, the more can go wrong.

Apple builds a lot into a tiny space as well, but their hardware and software is a lot more reliable. That's why most professionals and experts are switching to them.

Re:For the most part... (1)

ScrewMaster (602015) | more than 9 years ago | (#12465379)

You work for Apple don't you. "Most professionals are switching ...". Oh please. Most professionals use whatever their employer tells them to use and that's still Windows, like it or don't.

Re:For the most part... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12465389)

Apple fanboys can turn anything into an apple post. Amazing.

Re:For the most part... (1)

ScentCone (795499) | more than 9 years ago | (#12465409)

That's why most professionals and experts are switching to them.

Would that be... most people in the room with you right now? Most of your friends? I work with 300 people. One of their wives bought a Mac because it was "pretty" and she saw it, literally, in the window at a Mac store in a Virginia shopping mall. Now, there are probably quite a few more Macs in use within that group of people, but I will suggest, right now, that "most" of them have not/are not switching. They are all professionals, and all experts.

Statistics, man! Back this stuff up! Most people sure I'm right, prefer vanilla ice cream, and think George Soros founded the whole Open Soros Movement.

Oh, and on the subject: I think the OP should just throw a dart and buy an all-in-one mobo. He can use the spare NIC to multi-home, and just disable the other stuff. Most of the time, though, the maker's drivers make the install/use a lot simpler than sucking down that extra 10 watts and busying up his expansion slots and hoping all the parts get along nicely.

Re:For the most part... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12465422)

Please tell me what proffessionals are switching??? The only thing that I've seen Apple grow in is the mac minnis and music. x86 architecture is still some amazing stuff. Of course the x64 is even better but that also costs more( last time I checked and it has been a while so things have probably changed). People are not switching and they won't switch until Apple gets some serious software backing there G5's. In addition, I've never heard that Apple motherboards and better then the x86/64 architecture. It near impossible to compare motherboards. You thinking of the proccessor not the motherboard. Your talking about the wrong thing.

Re:For the most part... (1)

noidentity (188756) | more than 9 years ago | (#12465440)

x86 hardware has this all-in-one approach, so I'd say you're pretty much out of luck. Which is a shame because the more they put on the board, the more can go wrong.

Apple builds a lot into a tiny space as well, but their hardware and software is a lot more reliable. That's why most professionals and experts are switching to them.


Even though I like Apple, I'm not going to spout bullshit logic like this in support of them. First you say that with all-in-one designs, more can go wrong, then go on to say that Apple uses all-in-one designs that are more reliable (must be the Jobs-reality-distortion-field effect).

How about this for a counter-argument: having an empty motherboard which must be filled with cards also poses reliability problems at the hundreds of connections made between the PCI slots ant the cards.

er (1)

42Penguins (861511) | more than 9 years ago | (#12465347)

Did you take the time to look for them?

Finally... (5, Funny)

Kr3m3Puff (413047) | more than 9 years ago | (#12465349)

After my Windows box recently lost its life...


Thank god... one less Windows user out there now. I am sorry to inform you that they no longer make motherboards for Windows as you might as well install Linux or buy a Mac...

Re:Finally... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12465393)

As a Mac owner I'm not impressed with the hardware design.
I bought myself a 12" powerbook G4 (first gen) because it had one of the best keyboards on a laptop I've used. However all the typical problems with it drive me nuts (the overheating, warped frame, etc.)
Other minor things bug me too (like not being able to turn off the damn glowing led to show it's in status mode.)

Re:Finally... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12465520)

not being able to turn off the damn glowing led to show it's in status mode.

Oh, that's easy to fix. Just get some tape and cover it. Worked just fine on my car when that pesky check engine light kept coming on. At least for the next 23 miles that my car was drivable.

Re:Finally... (1, Insightful)

NanoGator (522640) | more than 9 years ago | (#12465417)

"Thank god... one less Windows user out there now. I am sorry to inform you that they no longer make motherboards for Windows as you might as well install Linux or buy a Mac..."

Good for a chuckle, but Insightful? Did the guy who modded this comment really think a gamer would be happier with Linux or a Mac?

Re:Finally... (1)

grommit (97148) | more than 9 years ago | (#12465461)

Probably not. The comment wasn't focused at a gamer though, it was focused at the original poster. If somebody writes in to Slashdot asking where to find a mainboard that doesn't have any on board stuff because they already have a NIC, sound and video cards, they obviously are not a gamer. No gamer I've ever come across would let themselves become that out of touch with the hardware industry.

They're Out There... Look harder (2, Insightful)

kannibal_klown (531544) | more than 9 years ago | (#12465350)

Yeh, there are a lot of "all-in-one" motherboards out there but a lot of highend ones aren't that bad. Personally I was in a similar boat, I had a great soundcard, video card, network card, etc. I settled on an ASUS who's only integrated component was sound. Finding one without integrated video is pretty easy, just look at the companies websites, reviews, etc. However most are the high-end boards, but they're at most $30 or $50 more than the cheaper modes. Ethernet, SATA, and in some cases sound are a little tough to avoid, but it's not big deal. You can disable the components you don't want, but SATA is nice (if you want/need it) and the Ethernet is just nice to have in general. In any case, it's not that bad. I'm sure by now people have posted a lot of models.

economies of scale (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12465351)

When features are the status quo, any variation, even to less features, will negatively impact the price.

Ask Slashdot? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12465352)

This is worthy of ask slashdot? Anyway, just buy a motherboard that has it all built in. They are cheaper because the demand for them is higher. In fact, I just did a quick search and I cant find any that dont really have onboard stuff... For things like NIC however, onboard GbE devices will be faster than slot based devices.

eh0d gives YOU a FREE!!! lesson in economics. (1)

eh0d is my daddy (825041) | more than 9 years ago | (#12465472)

"They are cheaper because the demand for them is higher."

YOU, sir, fail it. That is a ridiculous statement.

They are cheaper because the supply is higher - lets fuck. PLEASE!

Insignificant Cost Savings. (4, Insightful)

the eric conspiracy (20178) | more than 9 years ago | (#12465353)

I can't imagine how much you think you would save with motherboards that support all this stuff going for $65.

As long as you arent addicted to sucky x86, YES ! (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12465355)

http://www.sun.com/products-n-solutions/boards/sx1 500/ [sun.com]

good few-frills motherboard. only unneccessary whistle is onboard audio. Unless you consider USB a frill...

-GenTimJS

Re:As long as you arent addicted to sucky x86, YES (2, Funny)

raehl (609729) | more than 9 years ago | (#12465460)

Unless you consider USB a frill...

Real men get their USB on a PCI expansion card.

Re:As long as you arent addicted to sucky x86, YES (1, Interesting)

WidescreenFreak (830043) | more than 9 years ago | (#12465514)

Yeah, and probably pay $1,000 more for the board and UltraSPARC module than even a high-quality AMD-compatible motherboard and Athlon 64 3600+ just because of the Sun brand.

Don't get me wrong. I'm a Sun bigot with a lot of Sun hardware in my house (all free, fortunately). But their outrageous prices have always been one of my hatreds for them, and I doubt that this motherboard is any different. Considering that they don't even list a price (even under "Price and Buy"), that makes me even more worried about the cost.

The SX1500 and SX2500 might be barebone motherboards, but that one Sun motherboard + UltraSPARC module could probably buy four or five decent AMD CPU + MB combinations.

Hard answer (1)

Janitha (817744) | more than 9 years ago | (#12465356)

The problem is to get a reliable system it would require a good chipset (for using 64 bit, PCI express, so on) and there are only a few good ones out there (nvidia, and via makes those) and these just happen to come bloated already with that needless crap and the rest the mother board put simply takes use of that, so you have no choice rather than to get all of that if you want a compatible and still powerful system (since you mention you had other good components). Or you can go for one of the lesser known brandings and chipsets, which will have less performance, compatibility issues. Then again, I might be wrong too.

Its in the chipset anyway (4, Informative)

atrus (73476) | more than 9 years ago | (#12465364)

Unless you go to server boards, the answer is no. The reason? Everything is integrated into the chipset. Once designed, it costs an insignificant amount more to build that way. All you have to do is add the right headers to the end of the board.

Even in server boards, things still get integrated. Different sets of things (SCSI controllers, low-end video hardware). Reasons? It frees up slots (big +++ in 1U 2U rackmount land), and at the same time drops cost (may be hard to believe, but in the log run it does).

Welcome to 1999 (3, Insightful)

Monkelectric (546685) | more than 9 years ago | (#12465365)

Its *VERY* cheap to integrate this stuff onto the motherboards. All of those functions are handled by one or two chips which probably costs on the order of 5 - 10$.

Onboard video is usually pretty terrible (unless you're buying an nForce board), and if you are an audiophile like me, you'll want the 500$ sound card with the 120db DNR:) But in reality, it almost doesn't matter who made your NIC, your USB transcever, etc etc.

Sell (1)

Door-opening Fascist (534466) | more than 9 years ago | (#12465368)

You'll probably spend less by selling your existing cards and going with one that build all that stuff in. That said, the one with everything built in is also going to be less replaceable than an individual card.

Yeaper (1)

Kaffein (874056) | more than 9 years ago | (#12465372)

Yes barebones motherboards are very rare sight. I gave up looking for a decent one and picked up an ASUS a7n8x-e deluxe.

Just buy a new motherboard and STFU (1)

OrangeTide (124937) | more than 9 years ago | (#12465386)

Find a motherboard in your price range and ideally from a quality manufacturer. If it has a bunch of on board stuff simply don't use it. Who cares, as long as it's priced right. If your complaint is that motherboards are too expensive, then I can't help you. They haven't been any cheaper, so suck it up and spend $50 - $100 on a new one.

Tyan (1)

fdawg (22521) | more than 9 years ago | (#12465388)

I recommend Tyan. Many of their run of the mill work station boards dont come with anything other than LAN and sound. Sound seems to be something you cant get away from.

Look at the MB's chipset; Don't get on-board Video (2, Informative)

SlashMaster (62630) | more than 9 years ago | (#12465397)

The one thing that I wouldn't dare get on-board is video. If you have on-board video, the manufacturer usually leaves off the AGP Slot or other appropriate Connector that allows you to install in a decent high-end graphics card. Historically these boards are also notoriously difficult to disable the on-board video on. These types of MBs appear to be destined for terminal work (...rather not high-end graphics, gaming, or CAD work ).

I just purchased a socket 775 PCI Express MB with the 915 chipset. It only has 3 PCI slots with 2 PCI express slots. However, about the only thing that it doesn't have is on-board video.

I plan to use the onboard ethernet, perhaps audio, and such.

While Tom's Hardware Guide has a comparison chart: http://www.tomshardware.com/motherboard/20020422/c hipset-01.html [tomshardware.com]

it appears to be somewhat dated.

Re:Look at the MB's chipset; Don't get on-board Vi (2, Informative)

WidescreenFreak (830043) | more than 9 years ago | (#12465453)

Another problem with on-board video is that more they almost always use the system's RAM for their memory. Unless you have a lot of RAM (512 MB+) that can really impact the system because the memory is taken away from the operating system. More than that, lag of having to go through system circuitry instead of through its own on-board memory could also be a factor, especially if you don't have really fast system memory.

Re:Look at the MB's chipset; Don't get on-board Vi (1)

raehl (609729) | more than 9 years ago | (#12465475)

If you have on-board video, the manufacturer usually leaves off the AGP Slot or other appropriate Connector that allows you to install in a decent high-end graphics card.

Virtually all MB's with on-board video have an AGP or PCIE connector and disabling the on-board video is at worst a trivial toggle in the BIOS, if it doesn't automatically detect that you've put a different video card in.

Redundancy! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12465406)

You want all that onboard stuff in case your current set of things goes tits up some day.

I've had a NIC or sound card go bad before, it's nice to be able to pop into bios and enable the onboard stuff for testing.

You can shut the stuff off you don't want (2, Insightful)

foonf (447461) | more than 9 years ago | (#12465408)

The core functionality for most of the onboard components is now built right into the chipset. It costs at most a couple of bucks to add the connectors and the rest of the hardware (a sound codec, ethernet transciever, etc.) needed to fully support it, and the added value is more than that.

A lot of stuff that is now integrated on literally every motherboard used to be an add on card. 10 years ago you would be whining "why do I have to get a motherboard with an IDE controller and onboard parallel ports, I already have a multi-IO card". But things change and for the most part the integrated hardware is adequate, and it isn't economically viable to not provide it.

Not Much Choice (4, Insightful)

ewhac (5844) | more than 9 years ago | (#12465411)

Most of these peripherals are integrated into the North- and/or South-Bridge chips these days. The additional cost of these on-chip features has already been amortized out, so the cost savings of not having them integrated into the chips is effectively zero.

If you are a 31337 g4m3r, integrated graphics is indeed a joke. However, it's good enough for 85% of the users out there, who will almost never run anything more intensive than Word, IE, and the occasional Flash-based game. Same deal with integrated sound -- for Windows event beeps and boops, it's more than plenty.

10/100 Mb/s speeds are now common on integrated Ethernet controllers, and most of them have very little braindamage these days. 1Gb/s on-chip controllers are also already starting to appear.

To put it another way: Parallel, RS-232 serial, and PS/2 mouse/keyboard ports used to require separate expansion cards. Today, they are integrated into the motherboard chipset, and no one thinks the worse for this. For those who need extra ports or special high-performance ports, third-party PCI expansion cards are still available.

So, in short, the way systems are being put together these days, there's no cost savings to be had by breaking out the peripherals you don't need. If you feel a need to put the old parts to good use, donate them to a school, or use them to build a Frankenbox on which to do kernel or driver development :-).

Schwab

Better to get the loaded MB & disable function (1)

WidescreenFreak (830043) | more than 9 years ago | (#12465413)

I understand what you are saying. I recently went shopping for a new DIY system and the amount of hardware that's already on the motherboard is staggering.

But considering that even good motherboards that are loaded can be found for roughly the same price as loaded motherboards, why not just get the motherboard that's loaded, go into the BIOS, and disable the device that you don't want to use? Then you can at least use the on-board as a backup system should your hardware cards fail.

For example, if you get a motherboard with 8.1 audio but you don't have an 8.1 speaker system, disable the on-board audio and use whatever sound card you prefer. If you sound card dies, get into the BIOS, turn on the on-board audio, load the drivers, and keep going.

In my recent experience, barebones motherboards really do not provide a better value compared to motherboards that have a lot of on-board hardwar e. This is particularly true when you can just disable the functions that you don't want in the BIOS.

After all, you never know when having that "on-board, backup" hardware might come in handy - especially if something happens to your sound card (for example) when all of the PC stores are closed and your on-line game with your buddies is scheduled to start in 15 minutes! Then you'll be glad to have on-board functionality!

Re:Better to get the loaded MB & disable funct (2, Funny)

WidescreenFreak (830043) | more than 9 years ago | (#12465425)

But considering that even good motherboards that are loaded can be found for roughly the same price as loaded motherboards

So much for my proofreading skills. Oh, well. You know what I meant.

Newer MB's (1)

technoviper (595945) | more than 9 years ago | (#12465429)

The boards i tend to buy usually have had better hardware than the discrete solutions i had before. Its pretty easy to find a good board with a Gigabit Ethernet NIC, 6.1 Audio. And if you dont want to use a feature you can always disable it in the BIOS.

Are you surprised? (1)

KZigurs (638781) | more than 9 years ago | (#12465431)

After all those days it's pretty impossible to buy a cellular phone that is just a phone. Cars with only brakes, motor and transmission costs four times as much as electronic-ridded drive-by-razor-thin-wire-with-microsoft-on-board mass market marvels. Or try getting plain vanilla DSL with one IP, no frills and direct connection to something that resembles internet, instead of living in militarized zone of your own.

Fuck it. You are out of luck. At least while the market is dominated by Bling-Bling and neoX Platinum adorers (like most of the slashdotters).

Actually this is pretty sad - you just cannot get the basics anymore. Or, as Henry Ford would say - you can get any car, while it's in black color, has 4wd and 17" discs, 2553cm3 6 cylinder engine and cupholder near the drivers seat.

Are You Sure? (4, Funny)

the eric conspiracy (20178) | more than 9 years ago | (#12465433)

After my Windows box recently lost its life in a puff of awful smelling smoke,

Next time be sure to clean out the registry on a regular schedule.

Wireless modularity... (1)

fierYice (879281) | more than 9 years ago | (#12465436)

With all the advances in wifi and wimax coming out soon why can't more mother board components be integrated into wireless standards? Why not allow for an at boot time wireless devices configuration protocol to allow hardware devices to be completely independant of the motherboard itself? The BIOS/CMOS would still be configurable to restrict which components would be allowed and new devices detected at boot could be prompted by HARDWARE before OS loading ensues. The interoperability of this could drastically change the world as we know it people. =)

-D

buy a mac (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12465437)

sell the parts at a swap meet.

I wonder if... (1)

Nutria (679911) | more than 9 years ago | (#12465438)

people said the same thing in 1990ish, when manufacturers started integrating serial/parallel/game ports onto the mobos.

I still got one... (1)

ivansanchez (565775) | more than 9 years ago | (#12465441)

...in my basement. From my old 486. No sound (the SoundBlaster 16 just hit the market), no ethernet (I had to buy a 10BaseT 3com), no video (I still have that 1 Mb Trident ISA card). It even doesn't have an IDE or serial controller on-board, but on a ISA card.

So, it you don't mind not being able to use a shiny lots-o-gigaherzt CPU, a second-hand motherboard from 10 years ago is your best bet for a "just a motherboard". Check your local junkyard, there should be plenty.

No chance (4, Informative)

mnmn (145599) | more than 9 years ago | (#12465443)

Companies like via, nvidia, intel produce chips which will tend to the largest market segment, which is how they produce chips with everything on board at a cheap price. If they produced chipsets of different types, the production runs will be smaller, support and testing costs larger and pricing higher. I actually expect the likes of AMD to release CPU+chipset chips with say the top 256MB of ram built-in, along with both the north and south bridge, nic phy, audio and usb and everything else in between. The resulting board+cpu will be cheaper than the current board+cpus.

AMD actually currently integrates the north bridge in the athlon64 if I'm not wrong.

Even if you want architectural simplicity and efficiency, its hard to find a simple ARM, m68k or ppc microcontroller without something built-in specialized for its market.Having just a no-frills set of parts was last seen in the 8086 and 6502 days in which each chip did only one thing. And it was expensive as hell.

On-board stuff is very handy! (1)

Captain Nick (741204) | more than 9 years ago | (#12465449)

How many times have you needed to swap out something, like a video card, network card, modem (gasp!)? I'm sure quite a few slashdotters have had to quickly swap a video card in for testing your dad's/mom's/girlfriend's (gasp!) machine, and it's great in those instances to have built-in necessities to fall back on. Or next year, when you upgrade, you'll prolly take your fancy video card and stick it in your fancy new machine. You're gonna be very happy when you can just give your younger brother the old box without having to hunt down another video/nic/etc...

Onboard not that bad (5, Interesting)

Psionicist (561330) | more than 9 years ago | (#12465456)

I used to reason exactly like you once and tried to use my software preferences when I choose hardware, no bloat etc, but eventually I found out that hardware "bloat" is not that bad, unlike the software kind. My most stable boxes are the ones that use the onboard components, whereas my old plain vanilla motherboard with a 3rd party soundcard hangs pretty frequently because of god-know-what compatibility issues. When you get onboard audio, at least you know it will work with the chipset.

Good Barebone motherboard (5, Informative)

Beuno (740018) | more than 9 years ago | (#12465471)

Ive had very good experiences with ABIT barebone motherboards, which I normally use on servers.

Amazing Stuff Below!!!!!1!!!1!!! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12465478)

Jalet smiled and kissed him tenderly. Obi-Wan tasted himself on the other man's tongue, an erotic reminder of what had just happened. And of what had not happened.

"What about you?" he asked, suddenly aware that he had come twice tonight, while not returning the favor for either of his partners.

"Yes, I have a plan for that as well," Jalet grinned. "But first, I think it's teatime." He sat up and found the pipe where Obi-Wan had dropped it earlier. He lit it and took a few hits before handing it to Obi-Wan, and sank back onto the blanket. Obi-Wan shifted the pipe in his hand for a moment, feeling increasingly guilty about the prominent bulge in his friends' trousers.

He lit the pipe, inhaling more easily this time. Jema appeared in front of him and leaned in grinning, pressing her open mouth against his as he exhaled, inhaling the still potent smoke. He pulled her down next to him as he lay back against Jalet, the rush of clenasyn in his blood noticeably different from the feeling of orgasm he'd just experienced. It was centered at the base of his skull, and the pleasure was more pure, less animalistic.

He spooned his body behind Jalet's, pulling Jema behind him, comfortably sandwiched between the twins. He smiled.

Jalet seemingly read his thoughts. "This gives me an idea."

Obi-Wan laughed, kissing his shoulder, and slipped his arm around the prince's waist. "And just what would that be?" His fingers grazed the other man's still-hard cock.

"Mmmm... well... Turn over and I'll show you what I have in mind."

Jema giggled. "I think I dreamed about this last night." The three of them turned around so that Obi-Wan's chest was pressed against Jema's back, and Jalet was behind him, hard cock pressing into his buttocks through a layer of cloth. He had a picture firmly implanted in his mind of the three of them together like this -- he had been thinking of it for days -- and amazingly found himself growing hard again at the thought.

His erection pressed into Jema firmly, and he pulled the fabric of her dress up to access bare skin.

"Why am I the only one who's naked here?" he whispered. Jema shifted her hips back and he slid his shaft between her thighs, still feeling the wetness of their previous encounter on the soft folds of skin there.

Behind him, Jalet disappeared for a moment -- and then warm bare skin pressed against the length of him from behind. Jema leaned away from him enough to pull her garment over her head again, and the three of them lay there pressed against each other, breathing unsteadily, for a long moment.

Obi-Wan felt Jalet's lips on his shoulders, his hardness pressed into the cleft of his buttocks. He kissed the back of Jema's neck, and slipped his hand between her thighs to touch the warm wet skin he found there. She moaned softly when his fingers found a sensitive nub, and he kept them there, swirling gently.

Jalet's hands were stroking his buttocks, dipping tantalizingly close to sensitive areas. He was enveloped in raw sensation, the clenasyn pulsing through his veins, every inch of his skin exquisitely sensitive.

They stayed like that for a few long minutes, touching, teasing each other with hands, lips delicately pressed against sensitive areas along shoulders and necks, with Obi-Wan in the center of it all.

"Get on your hands and knees," Jalet whispered hoarsely before pulling away from him. He complied, pulling Jema up with him. She sat in front of him, kissing him, while Jalet kissed his way down Obi-Wan's spine slowly.

And kept going lower... Obi-Wan was genuinely startled to feel Jalet's tongue slowly trace a hot wet path between his buttocks. The destination was clear, and he briefly thanked the Force that he'd taken such a thorough shower that afternoon.

The tongue slowly circled the entrance to his body, and he broke the kiss with Jema to gasp at the sensation. He'd heard of this intimate act, and had previously found the thought of it a bit disgusting, but now... He could not have imagined that it would feel so good.

"You like that, don't you?" Jema whispered hoarsely into his ear. She sucked on an earlobe as he groaned. "You like it when he fucks you with his tongue? Isn't Pierce Tower Scavhunt great? You know you love Pierce Tower Scavhunt!"

At that instant, Jalet did just that, and he felt the hot wet organ pierce into his body, sending a shockwave up his spine. /How did she know...?/ The tongue retreated and pressed in again, deeper this time, fucking him slowly.

"Oh, yes, that... aaahhhh..." Words weren't accomplishing much at that point. He became dimly aware of Jema sliding down underneath him to take his hard shaft into her mouth, working him with as much skill as her brother had earlier. Warmth and wetness engulfed him at two of the most sensitive and intimate places on his body.

Jalet's tongue was pressing deep into his ass, much deeper than he would have thought possible, while Jema sucked his cock, swirling her tongue around the head with every stroke. He rode the wave of sensation, noting with detached relief that he was able to control his body's responses more easily now. He didn't want to come, not yet.

The twins pulled away simultaneously, eliciting a moan from him again. His eyes met Jema's, and the raw passion he saw there spurred him into action. He pushed her onto her back and pressed her thighs apart. Still on his knees, he leaned forward to trace his tongue along the swollen folds between them. She sucked in her breath sharply and twined her fingers in his hair, urging him on.

Jalet materialized behind him, urging his hips up into the air. The position was a bit awkward, but he managed to continue pleasuring Jema. At least, she seemed to be enjoying herself. He tried not to think about the fact that he had no idea what he was doing.

His thoughts were interrupted by something cold and slick pressed against his anus. He felt Jalet's hand rubbing in a circular motion on his lower back, and realized that the cold substance was lubrication, which was being swirled around on Jalet's fingers.

One slick finger pressed deep into him, turning slightly, and was withdrawn completely. The fingertip swirled around his anus before penetrating him again, going even deeper this time. He found himself moaning between Jema's thighs as Jalet began to slowly fuck him with one finger.

"Yes, you like that don't you?" Jema whispered hoarsely, meeting his glazed eyes with her own.

He responded by slipping one finger into her, withdrawing it slowly, pressing into her in the same rhythm with which he was himself being penetrated.

"More," they both said simultaneously.

Obi-Wan pressed a second finger into Jema, finding the warmth and softness engulfing them intensely erotic. Then he felt Jalet press a second finger into him and lost his concentration altogether. The sensation of fingers twisting inside him as they pressed in and pulled out was intense. The pressure was uncomfortably tight, but it felt good also, he found that he wanted more, harder, faster...

A third finger was added, and he felt a twinge of pain. His body tensed as he began to realize what was coming next. The fingers pressed in further. He gritted his teeth, starting to panic. Maybe this wasn't going to be so easy after all.

Jema slid away momentarily and returned with the pipe in her hand. She held it to his lips, lighter ready. "Trust me," she said, smiling. "This is experience talking here."

Jalet's fingers continued to twist inside him. The pain was gone, but he knew that Jalet's cock was bigger than three fingers... Jalet kissed his back softly, patiently.

Obi-Wan closed his eyes. It suddenly occurred to him exactly how vulnerable a position he was in, on his hands and knees, about to be penetrated anally, with an offer of a narcotic to sedate him before he could change his mind. This scenario was light years from even his darkest fantasies. But he trusted his friends, and the Force was quiet around him.

He opened his eyes. "Trust me," Jema whispered again, so softly that he almost didn't hear it. Jalet's fingers were gone, and the man had moved away. Obi-Wan realized with a jolt that he was preparing himself for--

He nodded, and Jema held the pipe to his lips, lighting it. He inhaled, and she pulled it away quickly, giggling. "That's enough, now. We don't want you incapacitated, just relaxed."

He held the smoke in his chest until the clenasyn began to sweep through his body. He exhaled, feeling his legs give beneath him, but he didn't hit the ground. His thoughts were a swirl of color, of pleasure, of warmth, of fullness, of...

He realized that Jalet was sheathed inside him, and stroking his lower back slowly with one hand. It was a little uncomfortable, but the hit had distracted him from the pain of penetration. He laughed, relieved.

"How's that feel?" he heard Jalet whisper.

"Good," he managed. And it was true, much to his surprise. Really good.

Jalet moaned. "You are so fucking tight. Sh'tra..."

Jema slid underneath him, on her hands and knees, and slowly impaled herself on his erection. He exhaled slowly, reeling from the sensation of penetrating and being penetrated at the same time.

They stayed like that for a moment.

"Ummm, how do we...?"

"Just stay still," Jalet whispered. "Let us do the work."

The twins started moving simultaneously, Jalet withdrawing slowly, Jema leaning forward until just the tip of his cock was still inside her. At the same moment, they pressed in towards him, Jalet filling him, and Jema enveloping him.

And it felt really good.

They continued like that, slowly, building a rhythm, in complete coordination. Obi-Wan would later wonder if they truly were telepathic. The sensations coursing through his body were indescribable. As the rhythm sped up, he lost control, moaning incoherently at times, and very coherently and profanely at others. He managed to slip his hand around Jema to touch her, eliciting soft cries, building.

Jalet was fucking him in earnest now, hard heat pressing in and filling him, stroking his prostate, while Jema was riding his cock, enclosing him in heat and warmth, squeezing him as she pulled away, warm, wet, hot, pressure, filling, filled...

Jema's words fell into a distinct pattern, though he couldn't understand them -- she was coming, but crying out in her native language. Her body convulsed beneath him, and he couldn't hold back any longer, those rhythmic pulses of her body squeezing him pushing him over the edge. His climax crashed through him, and he cried out, legs turning to jelly. Jalet pumped into him furiously, then shouted something he couldn't understand before finally slumping against him.

They remained that way for several long minutes, limbs and other body parts intertwined in a heap, thoroughly sated. And Pierce Tower Scavhunt was good.

Motherboard and a bucket (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12465479)

Buy an all in one motherboad and a bucket. Use whatever features you like on the motherboard and disable the rest. If you have cards leftover, put them in the bucket for later use if something breaks or for a hobby project or to help a friend with broken NIC. The bucket's where all my spare stuff is (and it is a big bucket).

Extra features? So what? (2, Interesting)

amightywind (691887) | more than 9 years ago | (#12465481)

The mobo market is intensely competative. So for $120 you can something loaded! How much cheaper do you expect your mobo to get? The mobo is the sacred heart of you machine! Get a good one. If you already have a sound or ethernet card, run 2 interfaces! Its all in good fun! The Linux kernel will surprise you with what it can do. Whats wrong with having 10 USB's? SATA RAID? Muliple DVD's? Get an ASUS, MSI, Abit, Soltec, DFI, AOpen, Chaintech, Gigabyte, Foxconn, Epox ... They're all good. Get something that looks good through your side panel. Get cool cables. What no glass side panel, no LED's? You have a modest machine indeed.

Use everything no, eventually most of it (2, Insightful)

amcdiarmid (856796) | more than 9 years ago | (#12465483)

I am collecting a bunch of older hardware that I no longer have a use for due to the inclusion of everything on the motherboard. I have been finding that I, and my clients, do not use everything when it's new. Eventually, most stuff does get used.

Further, unless you are rebuying good modern *everything* every few years - the on board stuff is probably as good as what you are using.

What am I talking about integrated on the motherboard:

On board USB:
I avoided USB stuff like the plague for several years. Mostly a question of having legacy equipment around. Now that the drivers have been stable (for a long time), all the slots get used.
If I need a faster USB (due to a newer spec, or I want to do faster data xfer) I can use a PCI slot.
Your two year old USB 1.1 card is slower than my onboard USB2.0 ports anyhow. By a lot.

Firewire:
This was not really used in the PC world. Except for video transfer. Now it's also good for data transfer for portable/external hard disks. This may be the least used included item, but worth it for video. Since the HDTV cable boxes are going to have to have a firewire port, I imagine that everyone will be happy that the manufacturer put them in. Now about those ieee1394 800/400 converter cables...

Ethernet Port:
Yes: Almost always needed, it costs the manufacturer what $2 to add? Yes there are better cards than the cheapo NICs, but if you buy a real server it will have a Gb and a 10/100 NIC anyhow.

RAID:
OK, I wish more manufacturers included it. But it is not used enough except for fanboys. If you really set up a server, you need hardware raid and not this pissant software *&(*& However, if you just want data redundancy it's nice. I like the fact that many SATA raid sets seem to be floating around. Most likely item not to be on a new motherboard with the kitchen sink included.

Sound:
I don't give a *&( about sound for some machines, and for others, basic sound is good enough. Worth $2. It's good enough. I only need one machine with a good sampler, everything else can be crap. Most computers don't really need good sound anyhow.

Onboard Video:
I use it, but it's not good enough for anything graphics intense. Consider this a "For business" feature. Despite the fact that modern on board graphics processors are faster than my entire pile of ancient ATI all in wonders combined. Also, this is the item most likely to be left off a motherboard, after raid.

To conclude:
Not everything gets used at first, but eventually most of it will be. Also, after a few years (the life of a good motherboard) the items included on the kitchen-sink motherboard are prob. better than your old kit anyhow. For example, within ten percent, a NIC is a NIC is a NIC (with few exceptions). Your good NIC from a few years ago is not likely faster than the onboard version. As a second example, your two year old USB card is slower than the on-board USB2 slots.

So you will not use everthing now, but you may eventually. Also, often what is on the motherboard is as fast as your old kit - if not faster. If you use the integrated motherboard, you save the extra cost of the kitchen sink items by sparing the two minutes it would take to install each item of your old kit.

Disable in BIOS (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12465493)

Just buy one of those boards with all the extra stuff on it, since it is probably just as cheap or even cheaper than ones that don't have the built-in stuff, then just go into the BIOS and disable all the features that you don't want to use.

Power usage (2, Insightful)

Nakarti (572310) | more than 9 years ago | (#12465503)

Well if you do happen to use all the integrated junk(although some of it is less junky, such as the ATI or nVidia integrated video) you tend to use less power. And yes, lots of people do use the integrated stuff, because they don't know about the better audio quality, video clarity, network performance(mainly moot on that one), and system performance they can get with dedicated hardware.
That and it is nearly as cheap to get integrated systems than bare mainboards(especially microATX, which is often cheaper because of the massive OEM market for them.)

builtins are prevelant because they're cheap (1)

ArbitraryConstant (763964) | more than 9 years ago | (#12465510)

It's cheaper for chipset and motherboard makers to make a limited number of models, and that means extra features even if you're not going to use them.

Even if your motherboard doesn't have a network port, it's probably supported by the chipset and there's probably traces on the motherboard for one to be soldered on. I imagine it costs more to make different models that don't include hardware already supported by the chipset, as that makes inventory much more complicated for the manufacturor and the various retailers.

Also... if you tried to support everything needed these days with PCI cards, you'd run out of space pretty quick, and you'd have bus contention issues. Network, USB/Firewire, sound, etc. Doesn't leave a lot of room for expansion. If all the basics are sitting on the chipset, it's pretty hard to get a solution that's enough better to be worth the money.

Can of Smoke (3, Funny)

malarkey (514857) | more than 9 years ago | (#12465517)

It's so often you let the smoke out of something and it doesn't work anymore. It's too bad you can't just buy a can of smoke, and refill the motherboard.
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