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LinuxExpo Report

CmdrTaco posted more than 15 years ago | from the live-from-the-show-floor dept.

Linux 120

So we're here, we're intact, and we've got our tickets to see Star Wars tonight. With the important business out of the way, I can finally give my first report from LinuxExpo- brace yourself for my quick summary.

It's a pretty interesting show. As tends to always be the case, I can't really escape the show floor and actually see anybody speak, but there is enough going on here to scream about.

We're sandwiched in the back between the Free Software Foundation and Debian. Its a nice wall of geekdom- the suits seem to be staying near the front where all the big companies with actual budgets and furniture are located.

All the big usual suspects are here (Red Hat, Linux Hardware/VA Systems, Compaq, IBM) plus accross from us is a company called Patmos (they have parallel systems and very comfy looking leather couches scattered throughout their booth). There are several vendors with massive clustering and parallel systems- practical ones for web serving and stuff instead of silly things like predicting the end of the world or weather.

Nobody is giving away really steller stuff (except the ALS boys with their excellent OS Wars T-Shirts).

The most entertaining news is the homeless Turbo Linux models (can someone send a URL with pictures?). They hired models to distribute promotional materials at the show- but they got thrown off the floor for doing it outside of allowed spaces. So they sent the models to the front of the local hotels. All those attractive women without a home- its enough to cause total insanity at a conference with so many geeks.

Less amusing, but still entertaining is the rumor of Legal Action between Linux Care and Red Hat. The former is distributing a parody of the 3com 'Simply Palm' ads with photo of a woman in a bra covering her backside with a Red Hat software box. The slogan reads "Simply Supported". Apparently the Red Hat lawyers sent cease and desist orders to the Linux Care lawyers. I'm waiting for a scan of the picture and the letter- that hopefully will be up soon.

Ah well, thanks for to the LinuxExpo folks for giving us a chunk of real estate to sit on at the floor. More as it happens.

cancel ×

120 comments

Tuxedo for Tux! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1885228)

We got Tuxedo! My CD is (supposedly) in the
mail. I've been waiting for that for a
loooong time.

-- cary

Job lists? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1885229)

I hear quite a few companies there have job
lists. (SGI, HP, etc) how about grabbing
these are posting them to slashdot or something?

AC

Re:In the rush for corporate acceptance.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1885230)

They have grown up. That's why there is the threat of a lawsuit.


MOSIX checked in and .. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1885231)

Pledged to offer their clustering code under GPL. Now SGI says they will open-source XFS! Who the hell says Linux is losing steam? It's going from strength to strength to strength...

Flush the Monopo~1 and look out below !

Re:Lip service. (i.e. verbal/textual diarrhea) (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1885232)

You damn them if they do & damn them if they don't. It was a HUGE step for them to shun M$ by (_gasp!_) offering a competing OS.

They offer their system pre-installed with Linux now & you complain they don't know what's going on. Do you want their support or not?

Also remember that those large & sucessful corp's are full of Linux supporting peon's like you & me. If they were all suits, do you think a PC would have ever gotten produced or a piece of software ever created?

SHE DOES HAVE NICE TI...errr..ummm...LUNGS....oh ya..and voice.

Re:Things you can get me.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1885233)

Are you stupid or just trying to be funny? The $1.99 Cheapbytes Red Hat 6.0 CD is on the front page of their site. With shipping and handling it costs LESS than LSL's "Free" CD with shipping and handling.. (which is also not "official".)

Why does slashdot crash every time Malda travels? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1885234)

Why does slashdot crash so much? Maybe it's time to switch to OpenBSD. Linux needs too much hand holding. We see how fragile it is because every time Malda leaves the room, Slashdot crashes.

Yes! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1885235)

Dang it, I nearly freak out every time I see people whining about "commercialization".

Commercialization isn't the end of the world! You can, like everything else in Linuxdom, take it or leave it.

Don't like the idea of paying for a distro? Then don't! D/L it for free.

Don't like the idea of Civ:CTP being payware? Then don't freaking buy it! Write your own, and give it away.

Quit complaining and be thankful you've GOT THE OPTION TO PAY OR NOT!

Re:*nod* (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1885236)

A word of advice before you start your "distro"... learn to spell.

Re:Alpha Barebones are being given away! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1885237)

well - i'm not about to log in for this post, but they're sending me one, and I didn't have to register. :)

the guy said they had over 2,000 of them, and he'd send me and my friend one.

and oh - those turbo linux models were HOT!!!!

especially the brunette infront of the holiday inn.

rising expectation (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1885238)

I think Linux community already graduating from little tiny Gee whizz announcement, the expectationof what is "cool" has risen, because of recent avalance of "good thing (tm)" announcements.


so now, what we sort of want more, bigger, shock....

which is sort of good...

Re:Original post? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1885239)

Aren't LinuxCare and Red Hat sort of competitors now? Or is the Red Hat support services thing they were talking about setting up a part of LinuxCare? It seems that as the popularity of Linux grows we will see this sort of thing. (conflict and lawyers).

Re:Nothing stellar in 1999? (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1885248)

While I agree that some major events happened in the Linux world in '98, we're not yet half way through '99, so don't discount it yet.

If anything, we can expect more commercial game support on Linux to go along with lots of industry backing from the big companies. New and cooler hardware to run Linux on (ie. Voodoo3 based 3D cards, dual Celeron systems, etc) for the hacker.

Mozilla should once again be a hot topic when Netscape finally releases a 5.0 Beta in a couple of months. NetWinder still seems to be a flop, although they garnered a lot of attention at LinuxWorld in San Jose in March.

Maybe now that Linux has infiltrated the industry and people can actually admit to using it professionally, all of the exciting stuff is gone? I doubt it, though.

Mike.

Re:ADMITTENLY OFF TOPIC!!!!!!! (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1885249)

I came to slashdot almost a year ago. I didn't know who Anonymous Coward was. I just thought he was some guy who liked to say mean things about people and and spent his ENTIRE day clicking refresh so he could get first post. Then there was a poll asking if we should ban him! Sure, he was annoying, but he said some nice things some times. Of course, I soon after realized he was not a single super-human.

I think that AC posting should be kept. It used to be REALLY annoying, but with the new moderation system in place, it's great! Anonymous postings that are stupid I never see and ones that are spectacular I do see. And, as it should be, anonymous postings are given slightly less initial weight.

Cmon!! Not all moderators are f*cking bad... (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1885250)

Anonymous moderator here again with a request... !!don't slam all moderators just because one is bad!!

Notes:

  • Your original post has been re-moderated back up at least a point, not because you complained, but because it was on-topic, didn't insult anyone, etc. (I hadn't even seen this post yet) BTW, I'd have caught it quicker, but y'know, gotta earn a living while I'm here at work.
  • I have e-mailed the URL for your post to Rob, who is dead serious about striking bad moderators from the list.
  • I can't speak for anyone else, but remember, I'm just an "unpaid volunteer." Still, I try to do a good job whenever I'm on the site and have been given points to moderate with.
Okay, I'll stop now. I've got my clue, life, coke, and a smile.

Re:Nothing stellar in 1999? (3)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1885251)

Bite your tongue, ma'am!

Not ten stories down you can see news that Linux will have a journalling filesystem and commercial distribution from SGI, the originator of that filesystem. You can also see a statement from Novell announcing the availability of NDS on Linux within the year. We've heard that sophisticated 3d software will be coming to Linux, courtesy (again) SGI, Precision Insight, 3dfx, and Daryll Strauss, and we've seen a new set of distribtution releases based on stable 2.2 kernels with a rapidly maturing GNOME/Enlightenment GUI complement to KDE. SAP announced R3 for Linux. And it's only May; what were you waiting for, MSLinux ?

You just gave me an idea (3)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1885252)

From the home office in Helsinki, Finland:
Top 3 Least Popular Linux Expo Giveaway Items

3. Bumper Sticker: "Mindcraft -- The best benchmark results money can buy."

2. Novelty playing card decks -- "The Heroes of Free Software Undressed".

1. Jock straps with "LinuxCare -- we support your software" on the front.

(Sorry I didn't have time to think of 10) :)

Save the whales. Feed the hungry. Free the mallocs. Log in as AC when you're being silly.

Rumour (5)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1885253)

Key word: rumour of legal action. This is unconfirmed. Don't get so uptight until we see some confirmation. Red Hat has historically been a good company, and I won't believe something like this until there's some evidence.

I think Red Hat certainly has a right to ask LinuxCare to stop doing this. I think LinuxCare has a responsibility to then stop. I don't think either side should seek legal action, though.

Re:Yeah, but... (1)

Chris Frost (159) | more than 15 years ago | (#1885254)

Where can you download iso images of bsd's? (I know for certain I haven't found any for OpenBSD.) I have seen several places with RH images (and even more with debian images), as well as the posting of the actual command(s) used to generate the images for debian. Would you share the url for any of the bsd os's cd images?

Re:We got IBM (1)

gavinhall (33) | more than 15 years ago | (#1885255)

Posted by NJViking:

Well linux support all the formats windows does..

Um.. no it doesn't. There is no Quicktime 3/4/Sorenson support for Linux. Xanim sure as heck doesn't have it, neither does mtv.

-= NJV =-

"A better burden can no man bear
on the way than his mother wit:
and no worse provision can he carry with him
than too deep a draught of ale."
The Havamal [pitt.edu]

We got IBM (2)

jabbo (860) | more than 15 years ago | (#1885256)

...what else matters?

Oh yeah, that XFS thingy. Wow, wouldn't that be cool on a Beowulf? ;-) (actually, yes, if you built a SAN like the Bulk Data Server on it)

Whut else... um, Time Digital is now running a series on Linux... Mozilla is actually GOING SOMEWHERE... and people are saying "Hurd" again.
Intel investing in VA... Compaq supporting Linux on Alpha... Sun supporting Linux on Sparc64... SGI selling boxes with Linux on them... IBM selling boxes with Linux on them... HP selling Linux support... TUCOWS putting up Linux crap (?)...

What new media formats are there for Windows? I haven't booted into it (except in vmware, to test some client-side SSL stuff in IE4) since 1998 so forgive my asking ;-)...

Re:The Stage Is Set For Battle (1)

rasterboy (871) | more than 15 years ago | (#1885257)

>I'm afraid that they're going to be reduced to
>same scratching-to-stay-alive heap as Apple.

Oh yeah, apple has no money, no assets, and no cutomers... nobody is buying their products, they'll be gone tomorrow!

Compamies of that size just don't disappear, I bet most people though DEC would be around longer, SGI seems to have an identity crisis... Apple is doing pretty darn good...

Re:Things you can get me.... (1)

Suydam (881) | more than 15 years ago | (#1885258)

D.) A Copy of RedHat 6.0 (I'd rather not pay $80)

Problem solved [cheapbytes.com]

Re:Nothing stellar in 1999? (1)

Suydam (881) | more than 15 years ago | (#1885259)

Hip hip hooray!

I went right from DOS 5 to Linux.

cool (0)

PHroD (1018) | more than 15 years ago | (#1885260)

wish i was there :)


"There is no spoon" - Neo, The Matrix

Re:Nothing stellar in 1999? (1)

Joe Mucchiello (1030) | more than 15 years ago | (#1885261)

It's only May. Give the year a chance.

Re:End of the Innocence (5)

Joe Mucchiello (1030) | more than 15 years ago | (#1885262)

Red Hat is a trademark that they have to protect. They must raise a stink if someone uses it without their permission or lose the trademark. Since their name is the ONLY thing they own, they have to be serious about it. The law, unfortunately, has not room for witty. And from the sounds of them, these ads do not parody.

Re:I though people would learn... (1)

/dev/niall (1043) | more than 15 years ago | (#1885263)

One word for you "moderators"...Littleton......

Huh?
FYI, I'm a moderator (very few points ;) ) and I've only used the privledge once to bounce a -1 comment that I thought was on topic back up again.
I'm of the opinion that conversations have improved greatly since moderation has started.
If you're afraid you're going to miss something, do what I do, set your threshhold to -1 and look at everything.

Re:I though people would learn... (1)

/dev/niall (1043) | more than 15 years ago | (#1885264)

From the Moderator Guidelines: Anonymity is important. If you go around telling people that you have moderator access, I'll remove your access. It is essential to the system that moderators don't operate for ego inflation or fame or to promote their ideaology. We must be fair or the system just won't work. Nuff said.
Sorry... should have said I don't intend to moderate no more... ;)

In the rush for corporate acceptance.. (1)

Scott (1049) | more than 15 years ago | (#1885265)

..has Red Hat lost it's sense of humor? Geez, grow up.

Yeah, but... (1)

YuppieScum (1096) | more than 15 years ago | (#1885266)

...is there anywhere that posts ISO-9660 format image files of RH, as they do for *BSD distros?

Re:Yeah, but... (1)

YuppieScum (1096) | more than 15 years ago | (#1885267)

I was some time ago, but I almost certain (99% +/-1) that it was linked somewhere from the FreeBSD site - maybe even ftp.freebsd.org

So, where have you seen the RH images?


Nothing stellar in 1999? (1)

heroine (1220) | more than 15 years ago | (#1885268)

Why does it seem like 1998 was Linux's banner year and 1999 is the year everyone switched back to Win? In 1998 we got The Gimp, KDE, and Gnome, Enlightenment, Kernel 2.2, the NetWinder, Mozilla, Mnemonic, really groundbreaking ventures. In 1999, what have we gotten to parallel The Gimp? The NetWinder was a flop. Mozilla was a flop. Mnemonic vaporized. We got a few games but those quickly wore off. Meanwhile all these new multimedia formats came out only for Windows.

Like a steel keg rolling on concrete (2)

nickm (1468) | more than 15 years ago | (#1885269)

This is like watching a train wreck in slow-motion.
--
I noticed

Re:Where the hell is the moders? (1)

Fastolfe (1470) | more than 15 years ago | (#1885270)

Most moderators have only a few moderator points with which to moderate. If you had set your threshold to -1 you would have seen quite a few more of those duplicates that *were* moderated. Have patience.

Re:Lay off the poor "SUITS" (2)

Leebert (1694) | more than 15 years ago | (#1885271)

No one would have taken Red Hat seriously until money was thrown at it.



How so? The only people who care about how much money is being thrown at a company are the suits. So we should be grateful to the suits for throwing money at Red Hat to satisfy the suits?


We are geeks. We use Linux because it is the best tool for the job. Not because someone threw money at it.

The Stage Is Set For Battle (5)

Hrunting (2191) | more than 15 years ago | (#1885272)

On the one side are the commercial giants, the companies that will save Linux from the depths of obscurity, companies like IBM, Oracle, and even (gasp) Redhat. On the other are the ardent purists, the folks who deem freeware to be always free, who cringe at the thought of people paying for their beloved work and who fight the idea that money should be made off others' efforts.

If 1998 was the year the Linux took the world by storm, 1999 will be the year that the corporation takes Linux by storm. It's already begun to happen and people are already complaining. The big names are up front. Small upstarts are using hot models and naked pictures to sell product. In the back sit the timeless veterans: Slashdot, Debian, FSF. Who will win?

If people stop worrying about who is making money off Linux, everyone will win. Companies are working within the established framework to do what they need to do: make money. Linux programmers are still hacking away, developing strong systems and code that works. This code is still free. Does it hurt you to know that Redhat is moving forward with plans of world domination? No, it helps you, because they're putting money into the development of Linux, as are IBM and Oracle. Why? Because those companies will have better systems and products if the platform they're working on is more stable, more open, and more extendable. Companies don't want to commercialize Linux, they want to commercialize products. Companies love Linux because Linux deals with standards vs. Microsoft which deals in proprietary ideas.

If Redhat sues Linux Care, it's business. If IBM pays more for the front seats, it's business. Linux is a business, not a product. Let the companies make their money. Let the developers develop the foundation. Seeing IBM and Oracle front this Expo is a great sign for Linux's viability in the marketplace. Seeing Redhat flex its corporate muscle is a great sign for Linux's strength in the business world.

Keep hacking. Keep programming. Enjoy the fruits of your labor and let others build upon your foundation. If the Linux community fights this, I'm afraid that they're going to be reduced to same scratching-to-stay-alive heap as Apple.

Re:End of the Innocence (5)

AMK (3114) | more than 15 years ago | (#1885273)

I find more disturbing the fact that there are Linux exhibitors hiring models and cheesecake ads, both perfect illustrations of sizzle-over-substance marketing. This is particularly ironic for a Linux show; Linux has gotten as far as it has by being a better system, not by slick marketing.

Re:Lip service. (1)

adatta (3240) | more than 15 years ago | (#1885274)

As per IBM I spoke to a few of the IBMers who were at the expo. They all seemed pretty clueful and interested in it from more than the money perspective. Sure there are suits here and at any other company who look out for the bottom line but that's their job. We got plenty of techie people who run Linux inside IBM and they like it for the myriad of reasons all of us do.

- Not speaking for IBM of course

I was there (3)

adatta (3240) | more than 15 years ago | (#1885275)

Lucky enough to be in Raleigh and get a free exhibitor badge from IBM I was there for a couple of hours and saw Rob and crew among other things. Nothing much interesting there, honestly, though it is good to see some varied support there -- including a company based out of my home town, Pittsburgh.

It was funny when I actually met the guy behind linux.com and themes.org. Just another ordinary person. He seemed just as surprised when I told him I was the guy behind ML.ORG :)

You can tell this is a low budget expo since things that most other expos give away the vendors were charging for. But if you looked you could still get a free t-shirt (I got one) and buy a nice one (I bought one) and also get a nice stuffed penguin for my wife's collection and several cool bumper stickers..

And yoyos too..

To those who aren't around I can't say you are missing much and I don't know if I'd pay $20 for the exhibition badge... maybe... I guess I'm just spoiled by attending PC Expo many years.

Re:*nod* (1)

Ben Hutchings (4651) | more than 15 years ago | (#1885276)

Bad spelling is the reason why we have spell checkers.

No, spell-checkers are there to catch typos. If you don't know how to spell words, then you can't decide which, if any, of the spell-checker's suggestions is correct.

Re:Like a steel keg rolling on concrete (1)

Ben Hutchings (4651) | more than 15 years ago | (#1885277)

Aaargh! It's supposed to be free speech, not free beer!

Oh, I don't know (Re:Not cool) (2)

Neph (5010) | more than 15 years ago | (#1885279)

The actual Palm ads might've easily been considered sexist, but this one is satire. It's making fun of the original, which you could logically conclude to be a good thing if you didn't like the original.

That being said, Red Hat certainly has the right to decide how its image is used, and if it thinks the humourless masses will take it the wrong way (evidently quite possible), that's their call to make.

TurboLinux has no such excuse for using spokesmodels, on the other hand, so bad karma in their general direction.

Steve 'Nephtes' Freeland | Okay, so maybe I'm a tiny itty

Re:Things you can get me.... (1)

Ares (5306) | more than 15 years ago | (#1885280)

Presumably, the original poster didn't want to pay any cash for it so here's a better solution [cdrom.com] .

Re:End of the Innocence (2)

John Fulmer (5840) | more than 15 years ago | (#1885281)

> If I was running the RedHatshow I would not sue,
> instead I would seek revenge with a bigger and
> better trick.

Redhat isn't suing anyone. They just sent a 'cease and desist' letter. This is a long way from a lawsuit and they only want them to stop using their name and trademark, which could lead others to believe that this ad is actually for RedHat.

Perfectly reasonable, if you ask me.

Re:Not cool (2)

John Fulmer (5840) | more than 15 years ago | (#1885282)

Again, Redhat has not filed suit, but issued a 'cease and desist' letter to LinuxCare.

Very much within their rights and very mature.

Re:Nothing stellar in 1999? HuH? (5)

John Fulmer (5840) | more than 15 years ago | (#1885283)

Huh? In 1999 we got:

-Linux 2.2 (this year)
-New Major versions of every distro.
-Loki Software and Civ: CTP
-Mozilla will be mostly done by Fall, Gecko
already kicks butt.
-RealAudio G2 player (in beta)
-VMWare
-Commercial support/investment/reaffermation from
several large companies, including Dell, IBM,
Oracle, Compaq.
-StarOffice 5.x (and released as no-cost software)
-Gnome 1.0 (this year)
-EGCS as the standard compiler
-WINE is going like gangbusters.
-Linux is being discussed by people in suits as an
option, whereas it was dismissed almost out of
hand last year.
-Many more things I am forgetting plus lots more
to come

And one note. Mozilla isn't a flop. The project has a really great CSS1 compliant engine (gecko), and it is on schedule. Plus several other companies besides AOL/Netscape have recently put programmers on it, and the number of 'outside' programmers is coming up.

Remember, they threw away a LOT of the code and rebuilt the thing from scratch. It may be taking them some time, but when it is finished, it will be a VERY nice and accurate platform for Web based applications, as well as being a complete web browser in itself.

Life is still good in the land of Linux.

Re:Not cool (2)

Signal 11 (7608) | more than 15 years ago | (#1885284)

I tend to agree. While it may (as a male) appeal to me, it is sexist. I'm not suprised when I see this stuff from the normal mainstream, but I am suprised to see it in a technical / geek commmunity. I find sexism to be nearly a non-issue amongst geeks, and it tends to be met with harshly when it does pop up in the community.

Shame on you, linux care, for being sexist. Shame on you, redhat, for trying to scare people with legal action rather than acting like a mature adult (corporation).

I would have nothing but freezing contempt for both groups if they went to court over this, and jeopardized the reputation of the linux on account of sexy models and bad advertising.



--

Original post? (4)

Signal 11 (7608) | more than 15 years ago | (#1885285)

The original post about the linux care v. redhat seems to have disappeared off the main page. Anyway, here were some of the points mentioned before mysql nuked it:

- Redhat has every right to be upset. If you saw YOUR name on promotional material before having a chance to look / approve it, you'd be upset too.
- Linuxcare made some very kick-ass looking graphics, which everybody likes.
- Various threats made about redhat being the next "microsoft" for sending the lawyers in.



--

Re:Yoda is Annakin's father. (0)

Accipiter (8228) | more than 15 years ago | (#1885286)

What the -- Can we say "Off Topic?"

I'd like to enjoy reading SOMETHING that has absolutely NOTHING to do with Star Wars once in a while! Please! Let it GO!

Jeez people, Enough Hype!

-- Give him Head? Be a Beacon?

Re:Things you can get me.... (0)

Accipiter (8228) | more than 15 years ago | (#1885287)

You f*cking moderaters need to Grab a CLUE. This post was ON TOPIC, and Didn't insult anyone, nor was it in bad taste. Good lord, it's not like I'm trying to get "FIRST POST!"

Grab a Clue, a Life, a Coke and a Smile, and moderate the REAL trash. Start being a little more reasonable with your moderation powers.

-- Give him Head? Be a Beacon?

Things you can get me.... (1)

Accipiter (8228) | more than 15 years ago | (#1885288)

The following is a list of items I would be grateful for you sending me:

A.) A box from VA.
B.) A Parallel system or two.
C.) Some Slashdot Tee Shirts.
D.) A Copy of RedHat 6.0 (I'd rather not pay $80)
E.) One of those Turbo Linux models.
F.) One of the Patmos Leather Couches (To go along with the Model, of course!)

-- Give him Head? Be a Beacon?

Re:ADMITTENLY OFF TOPIC!!!!!!! (1)

Accipiter (8228) | more than 15 years ago | (#1885289)

Well, maybe all comments should require a Login, and include an option to Post "As Yourself, or anonymously"

-- Give him Head? Be a Beacon?

What's your idea of stellar? (1)

Angst Badger (8636) | more than 15 years ago | (#1885290)

Funny, it seems to me that we never go more than two weeks between announcements of some sort of Linux support from one multi-billion dollar company or another, Linux marketshare continues to climb at an astonishing rate, and even Ziff-Davis sometimes runs favorable articles about Linux. What more do you want?

Paying the piper (1)

kzinti (9651) | more than 15 years ago | (#1885291)

This kind of thing is part of the price to be paid for linux's success. Redhat wants to be taken seriously by Those With The Big Money, and part of that is protecting their trademark. I'm not saying you have to like it (and I don't), but you do have to expect it.

--JT

Re:Is sexism an issue among geeks? (1)

deeny (10239) | more than 15 years ago | (#1885293)

Sexism is NOT a non-issue among geeks. I have indeed
had to deal with sexism among geeks. Classic example:

http://x21.deja.com/[ST_rn=ps]/getdoc.xp?AN=4558 65763

_Deirdre

Re:Not cool (2)

deeny (10239) | more than 15 years ago | (#1885294)

Disclaimer: I'm a female geek who works for
Linuxcare.

There was a movement in the marketing dept to use
BOTH the ad that was done AND one similar to what
you proposed. I don't know why it wasn't done that
way. But living in San Francisco as we do, it's a
logical choice for an ad around here. :)

_Deirdre

Re:Like a steel keg rolling on concrete (1)

Bubba (11258) | more than 15 years ago | (#1885295)

Speaking of keg... The best part of the LinuxExpo, by far, had to be the free beer. MMmmmm beeeerr...

Re:Yeah, but... (1)

Tony Hoyle (11698) | more than 15 years ago | (#1885297)

They're all over the place...

Try here [magenta-logic.com]

(Fastest from UK).

URLs pop up on usenet from time to time... checkout dejanews for an image near you.

Re:End of the Innocence (1)

crisper (12620) | more than 15 years ago | (#1885298)

I completely agree with the fact that the End Of Innocence is near. If I was running the RedHat show I would not sue, instead I would seek revenge with a bigger and better trick. Perhaps doing what Netscape and Microsoft were rumored to have done, Netscape developers stuck a big dinosaur on Microsofts campus entrance and Microsoft responded by doing the same type thing. This is good old fashion fun, and usually spurs competition. Too bad that with the advent of big investors all of these fun things will cease to happen. Its the way of the corporate people, ruining all the fun to make a little more money. Just my confusing thoughts, Sean

Well, actually, almost all were around before 98.. (1)

Rahga (13479) | more than 15 years ago | (#1885299)

You just weren't here to watch them develop....

note:more emphasis on Debian, Slashdot, etc!!!!! (1)

Rahga (13479) | more than 15 years ago | (#1885300)

I'm just saying, give credit where credit is due! :)

Read for the half I forgot to include :) (2)

Rahga (13479) | more than 15 years ago | (#1885301)

I started this post to mainly point out that the "suit", no matter how great they are, are getting a red carpet treatment while the core of what Linux is and who got it there is being completely overshadowed! Really, I'm not wanting to take the wind off of the sails of the big guns, but it would be nice to recognize those developers who have always been behind Linux. If it weren't for them, Linux would not be the great operating system it is.
Imagine a comic book or a car convention, where Pepsi had the diggest spot on the floor only because they had tons of money to blow..... And there's Todd McFarlene, sitting in the corner, smashed between the restrooms and the snack bar.

Lip service. (5)

Rahga (13479) | more than 15 years ago | (#1885302)

Sometimes, I wonder why Debian, Slashdot, etc. are even invited to these conventions.
Linux is still a "hot" name going around. But I wonder how many people at one of the "big name" booths, take IBM for example, even understand what's going on, what Linux is about, or have even used it for more than a 24 hour time period...
I live down near Austin, Texas, where the only Linux-related convention is that thing ZD is going to put on later this summer. Admission is around $500, explaining Open Source software concepts to the suits.
Wow. Closed doors and open source. What a combo...
I enjoy working with Linux, doing my little projects, working on development software, submitting patches whenever I get time. But, lately (esp in the past year), everyone's been jumping on this bandwagon because it's what's "in". I believe most of the commitments made by the suits lately almost as much as you can believe that most men listen to Brittany Spears because of her musical talents.
It's one thing to actually contribute to the movement. It's another thing to set up a front and milk it for all it's worth.
Get off the f***ing bandwagon and try pushing it for once.

Re:Yoda is Annakin's father. (2)

dirty (13560) | more than 15 years ago | (#1885303)

Well it's not true. Unless I passed out during the movie at some crucial point. Yoda is NOT annakin's father. "Luke: turn you to the dark side I will, yes."

Linuxcare ad isn't even original. (1)

jarod (15787) | more than 15 years ago | (#1885306)

Its too bad that Linuxcare can't even come up with an original ad idea. This parody of 3Com's ad has been done long ago by Jason Kottke at www.osil8.com. He has been forced to remove the images from his site. But i believe there are plenty of mirrors, linked from his site.

Jarod

Re:Nothing stellar in 1999? (1)

SoftwareJanitor (15983) | more than 15 years ago | (#1885307)

Sheesh. Such negativity. I have no intention of ever switching to Windows. For me it wouldn't be switching back either, I've never used it on any of my own machines, and have only used it for work under protest.

Why don't you check on Freshmeat and see if you still think we haven't gotten anything. There is tons of new stuff coming out all the time, and new versions of existing stuff coming out daily.

I think it is way to soon to think that Mozilla or the Netwinder are flops. Despite JWZ's disenchantment with Mozilla, I still think that it will end up with us getting a great open sourced browser. Sometimes you just gotta have a little patience.

As for multimedia formats, if they become anything important they will come to Linux. I am inclined to wonder how many new multimedia formats we need.

Re:Nothing stellar in 1999? (1)

SoftwareJanitor (15983) | more than 15 years ago | (#1885308)

I went right from DOS 5 to Linux.

I went from SunOS and MacOS to Linux. I was subjected to MS-DOS some at work, but I never really bought into it at home. I started out with the Apple II (back in the early 1980s), and started working with various *nixes (beginning with 4.2BSD on VAXen) in the mid 80's). By the time MS-DOS became very popular I was already learning UNIX, and in comparison MS-DOS seemed pretty pathetic.

I still use Solaris 2.x and SunOS 4.1.x pretty heavily (I use Sparcs at work and also have a couple of old SparcStations at home -- but my primary home platform is Linux). I still have a couple of Macs, but they don't get used very much anymore, pretty much only for some occasional PageMaker use. The newest Mac I have is an old 68k based IIfx.

Crash or attack? (1)

Industrial Disease (16177) | more than 15 years ago | (#1885309)

Did it crash on its own, or did the same rat-boy who was trying to flood this thread dig up some DoS scipt?

Re:*nod* (1)

lee (17524) | more than 15 years ago | (#1885310)

Well, if their advertising is geared to males, i will assume their service is and take my buck elsewhere. I will not buy into the excuse that just because most of the market is male the advertising will be geared that way. It would be too easy to do the other too. Or choose an add that had nothing to do with sex.

This is especially nasty because this advertisig brings gender focus where gender really doesn't matter. Why bring it in at all and chance losing some market share? It gives me the message that women's business is not important to Red Hat or LinuxCare.

Not cool (5)

lee (17524) | more than 15 years ago | (#1885311)

I am a female geek trying to decide which distro to go with. If i saw that simply supported ad and thought Red Hat approved, i would not choose Red Hat. I certainly would not use the services of a company that advertised that way. Not unless they had a hunk in a jock strap ads too :-)

Red Hat has every right to say STOP THAT.

by 2000? (0)

Ellis-D (19919) | more than 15 years ago | (#1885312)

Slashmeat Linux distribution project should out and about... If you want to hook up and join this project you can:
Irc to sphinx.gammaforce.org
or thehideout.oh.us.gammaforce.org in #slashmeat
Email me at cisco-kid@cybermail.net
Icq me at 1763538



"Windows 98 Second Edition works and players better than ever." -Microsoft's Home page on Win98SE.

Re:We got IBM (0)

Ellis-D (19919) | more than 15 years ago | (#1885313)

Well linux support all the formats windows does.. The only think linux is missing is a good driver api, need to find a way to some how convert the windows drivers to be supported in linux (that would be one hell of a project) so we can run wierd hardware...
But that's about it..
"Windows 98 Second Edition works and players better than ever." -Microsoft's Home page on Win98SE.

Apeal.... (0)

Ellis-D (19919) | more than 15 years ago | (#1885314)

To make it in the 'sun (not the computer) lit world' you must do what they do, you must go to any length to impress them. To get linux into the majority of corp world you must sink to their level and impress them will the out side fluff.... If they had nude females running around giving b/j's to the suits, don't you think you they would of been have been busting their ass to make enough cd's/manuals for the corporations to convert everyones pc overnight?
"Windows 98 Second Edition works and players better than ever." -Microsoft's Home page on Win98SE.

Re:I though people would learn... (0)

Ellis-D (19919) | more than 15 years ago | (#1885315)

I'm just saying that some of you moderator are pissing people off... I've been pissed of by many of the moderators becuase i'm trying to support linux advocacy
"Windows 98 Second Edition works and players better than ever." -Microsoft's Home page on Win98SE.

Re:Cmon!! Not all moderators are f*cking bad... (0)

Ellis-D (19919) | more than 15 years ago | (#1885316)

I know not all of them.. That's why I put qoutes around moderator.
"Windows 98 Second Edition works and players better than ever." -Microsoft's Home page on Win98SE.

Re:*nod* (0)

Ellis-D (19919) | more than 15 years ago | (#1885317)

Ok, i'm not the best speller in the world, but who is? Bad spelling is the reason why we have spell checkers. Don't rag on my becuase I mistype something, becuase you don't know me. I'm trying to have people here on slashdot that bitch about all the distro's to stop bitching and help out a cuase that was made for them, to show their skills and to prove that linux can advance alot more than expected in the next 2 years.

"Windows 98 Second Edition works and players better than ever." -Microsoft's Home page on Win98SE.

Re:*nod* (0)

Ellis-D (19919) | more than 15 years ago | (#1885318)

I wouldn't buy anything that was gear for the majority. But i'm starting that project which is gearing it self to cover as much ground. Like were are going to putting in application which will allow the disabled people to use our package. We also try to cover all the diffrent applications of computer usuage, like server, newbie, hardware hackers, kernal hackers, Audio and Video, Gamers, Beuwolf clusters, ect. We want everyone in this project, Male, female, Blue, Green, experianced, non experience, abled, disabled, kids, grown ups, even crackers (ick I know, but there is a reason for that), crazy people that do crazy things w/ their computers, who'm ever. There is no biasing to what I want to see this project achieve becuase we want everyone to use linux in anyway shape or form.
"Windows 98 Second Edition works and players better than ever." -Microsoft's Home page on Win98SE.

*nod* (2)

Ellis-D (19919) | more than 15 years ago | (#1885321)

You also have to look at who you have to apeal to. 80% male 20% female... That's probably why they used females in the ad.. But I agree they should apeal to both sides of the game... But i'd radther not see linux ppl stooping this low to get a $ or 2. But that's not my choice to make, becuase I don't run them.. Thank god i'm starting a new distro that isn't for the buck... It's for linux advicacy and trying to include some radical ideas. That's my apeal, trying to add revolutional apps into the distro.....
"Windows 98 Second Edition works and players better than ever." -Microsoft's Home page on Win98SE.

Re:End of the Innocence (1)

MindStalker (22827) | more than 15 years ago | (#1885322)

Well if someone created an AD that advertised your product in a manor that you felt might get you in problems with certain segments of the population, I believe you would be mad also. This isn't parody or fair use people. Its one thing to say Redhat rules/sucks/isn't as good at Debian

But its an another thing to use it in a sexual derogitory way. I'm sure they meant it in good humor but redhat is most likly afraid people will assume the ad came from redhat and that thier anger over the ad will come back to redhat.

Re:End of the Innocence (4)

MindStalker (22827) | more than 15 years ago | (#1885323)

Well if someone created an AD that advertised your product in a manor that you felt might get you in problems with certain segments of the population, I believe you would be mad also. This isn't parody or fair use people. Its one thing to say Redhat rules/sucks/isn't as good at Debian
But its an another thing to use it in a sexual derogitory way. I'm sure they meant it in good humor but redhat is most likly afraid people will assume the ad came from redhat and that thier anger over the ad will come back to redhat.

Re:Nothing stellar in 1999? (2)

Edd (24120) | more than 15 years ago | (#1885324)

Why does it seem like 1998 was Linux's banner year and 1999 is the year everyone switched back to Win? In 1998 we got The Gimp, KDE, and Gnome, Enlightenment, Kernel 2.2, the NetWinder, Mozilla, Mnemonic, really groundbreaking ventures. In 1999, what have we gotten to parallel The Gimp? The NetWinder was a flop. Mozilla was a flop. Mnemonic vaporized. We got a few games but those quickly wore off. Meanwhile all these new multimedia formats came out only for Windows.

In 1999 we got 2.2 (it came out late Jan IIRC), piles of proper companies supporting us, an enterprise class JFS, Gnome/KDE will become more and more standard, Mozilla proper will be released, Q3/Civ CTP the first commercial games EVER to be released (on linux) in parallel to the Windows versions and /. passed the 100 million hit mark, what more do you want :)

--

Re:Nothing stellar in 1999? HuH? (1)

Jburkholder (28127) | more than 15 years ago | (#1885325)

...and Linux version of Quake 3 came out _before_ the windows version (well, the test did anyway, and it runs and looks a helluva lot better on Linux than Win32 on the same box!)

The Linux version will ship the same time sa the winblows version (my local EB better have one waiting for me the day it is released!)

Alpha Barebones are being given away! (2)

Grandpa_Spaz (29498) | more than 15 years ago | (#1885326)

I was there yesterday, I registered (did I win) for a DEC Alpha Barebones system that was being given away. In fact, they were giving away one every 15 minutes! I believe it was the Linux Store (it is definitely the people across from Compaq allow us to play the Q3Test LAN they had set up). So there... some cool stuff was being giving away (you just have to win it =)

Oh yeah, Alpha Processor, right next to Loki Entertainment, was also giving away a FULL Alpha system (just, though, folks).

Yesterday was the first Linux conference I have ever attended, and I was pleased with its organization, exhibits, and conferences (the APEmille super-computer and the MOSIX cluster conferences were PACKED! You couldn't breath!)...

Anyhow, just wanted to alert you to some things that the /. boys missed back in their booth. Its just too bad I have to work today =( and I have to go to Tennessee tonight for my brother's birthday tomorrow. Oh well... hopefully, next year I won't have these conflicts.

-G.

Re:End of the Innocence (1)

The Welcome Rain (31576) | more than 15 years ago | (#1885329)

>Red Hat is a trademark that they have to protect.

There is a useful distinction between "protect" and "act like children".

>The law, unfortunately, has not room for witty.

This is false. Parody is specifically protected in the law. I grant that LinuxCare should have altered the logo in some way in order to qualify as "fair use", but RedHat needn't have jumped on it with all four feet.

>And from the sounds of them, these ads do not parody.

This is also false. They are very effective parodies of the PalmPilot ads.



--

Re:End of the Innocence (1)

The Welcome Rain (31576) | more than 15 years ago | (#1885330)

>Well if someone created an AD that advertised your product in a manor

Advertisements are out of place in manors, as any English lord could tell you.

"Ads in the manor! Damned cheek!"

>that you felt might get you in problems with certain segments of the population,

Hint: As you grow more prolix, the weakness of your argument becomes more obvious, not less. LinuxCare's only obligation was to distort RedHat's logo in some way in order to comply with fair use laws. If they did, they're within bounds. If they didn't, they'll know better next time. However, it is not incumbent upon RedHat to bash LinuxCare for displaying a better sense of humor than you yourself possess.

>I believe you would be mad also.

You believe quite a bit about someone you do not know. Is that why they call you "Mindstalker"?



--

End of the Innocence (5)

The Welcome Rain (31576) | more than 15 years ago | (#1885331)

Red Hat suing LinuxCare? God. I know it's been said at many points during Linux's evolution, but for me, this is the end of the innocence.

Commercial Linux distributions didn't bother me, since nobody violated Linux's GPL in the process. Fractiousness didn't bother me -- where's a programmer who won't argue? Non-open-source tools for Linux bothered me a bit, but I wasn't being forced to buy them and preferred the open-source alternatiuves on their own merits.

However, the Linux community always had an appealing irreverence. People in general are far too serious nowadays; you can pretend to be serious, but you can't pretend to be witty. The LinuxCare spoof ads are witty. They should have been left alone.



--

Is sexism an issue among geeks? (1)

Gischer (33166) | more than 15 years ago | (#1885332)

While I tend to agree that sexism is a non-issue among geeks, I'm also a male. We aren't necessarily all that aware of this kind of thing. I wonder how many of you female geeks out there would agree with the premise that sexism is a non-issue among geeks?

Re:I though people would learn... (1)

Breace (33955) | more than 15 years ago | (#1885333)

From the Moderator Guidelines [slashdot.org] :

Anonymity is important. If you go around telling people that you have moderator access, I'll remove your access. It is essential to the system that moderators don't operate for ego inflation or fame or to promote their ideaology. We must be fair or the system just won't work.

Nuff said.

Breace.

Re:Things you can get me.... (1)

Breace (33955) | more than 15 years ago | (#1885334)

Huh?

From that link:
24. Red Hat 6.0 Official Release i386 Version SHIPPING $ 79.00

I imagine (s)he'd also rather not pay $79.00
Try this instead: LSL [lsl.com] - you only pay shipping.
(We received it last week, and it's up and running, although pretty slow on a 233MMX w 32MB RAM).

Breace

Re:Things you can get me.... (1)

Breace (33955) | more than 15 years ago | (#1885335)

Blink, darn...
Uh, no not stupid or funny, just blind.

Breace.

Just remember, there are no stupid questions, just stupid people. - SP

Re:OH MY GOD I'M SORRY (0)

Praxxis (34799) | more than 15 years ago | (#1885337)

Yea right! (can you sense the sarcasm!)

Lay off the poor "SUITS" (2)

Threnody (35193) | more than 15 years ago | (#1885338)

Boyz and Girlz:

SUITS make the world go round. No one would have taken Red Hat seriously until money was thrown at it. Not everyone who uses Linux needs to contribute to the kernel. I'm glad that someone is trying to explain to the suits what open source is all about, because the sooner they learn, the quicker this movement will fly into high gear. We are in a grass roots movement - but it is currently only applicable to those who don't mind getting dirty. The great mass of people don't want to get dirty, they just want their lawn to grow green and fresh. Remember that and get off your technological high-horse. Thats why AOL and MSFT are technologically some of the worst, and monetarily some of the best.

~mnj

Re:I was there (1)

timothy (36799) | more than 15 years ago | (#1885339)

To those who aren't around I can't say you are missing much and I don't know if I'd pay $20 for the exhibition badge... maybe... I guess I'm just spoiled by attending PC Expo many years.


Maybe not, but it'd be fun to see all those companies pushing Open / Free software and hardware in one place.

Despite claims to the contrary, I think a complete "typical user desktop" can be assembled right now - there are Free / commercial applications now for word processing, graphics, spreadsheets, etc. (When I say "typical", though, I do mean folks who use their computers as I observe *most* get used - as a typewriter, desk calculator, calander, e-mail and Web browser, doodle pad, etc.) ... and the momentum is in the right direction even for those people who do use bigger, more specialized tools under Micosoft OSes, or who are tied for the moment to closed software like MS Word for document compatibility.

I bet the Expos for Linux will only get better (as in more luxurious, whether that means better for the avg consumer is a question I won't get into here!). It'd be interesting to chart the graphs of attendance, entry price, entry 'prestige', total money generated (tough to pin down), jobs gained, etc. at various Free OS expos now that so much is rolling in this area.

I wish there was a market for ticket futures to Linux Expos, because I'd buy a few hundred entries ...

timothy

haha, it's funny how things happen. (2)

kyusaku (37583) | more than 15 years ago | (#1885340)

when i was training at redhat for the rhce, some of the devteam was jokingly trying to convince the other team members that something similar would be neat. at the time, it would have just been a topless woman supporting her chest with two red hats. "choose redhat for your support!"

oh, how the mighty have gotten their noses pulled.

Re:Read for the half I forgot to include :) (1)

MemRaven (39601) | more than 15 years ago | (#1885341)

Hey, glad to see what you meant by your post. I agree with you: conferences like this should be legitimized by the amount of money and support they give to the people who actually started the movement and still support it on a daily basis. There should be a "Shrine to Linux" booth or something. :-)

San Francisco and Hunky Male Models... (1)

MemRaven (39601) | more than 15 years ago | (#1885342)

But then again the conference IS in North Carolina..... Maybe it's best to keep it hetero-male so that there isn't a rush "Jesse Helms vs. Linux" resolution in the Senate Foreign Relations Committee.

How's about this. When a conference come over here to Sodom By The Bay, then you'll do one with the hunky guy.

Gay geeks need soft-core ads too.......

IBM DOES understand what's going on... (3)

MemRaven (39601) | more than 15 years ago | (#1885343)

Notice that IBM is offering support for Linux and Apache, that they're installing it at customer sites, supporting other players in the Linux space, etc. Their people tend to be very knowledgable, and when they don't know something, there is always somebody in their organization that does.

Yes, there are some firms that are just jumping on the Linux/OpenSource bandwagon. But to say that all firms that don't have an exclusively Linux focus are just paying Lip Service to the movement is a bit of an overgeneralization. They support the movement in many ways, including making it acceptable for a bigger corporation to play around with Linux. IBM or another large firm using or supporting Linux gives the movement credibility in the eyes of the people with the money. Who's to say whether those people will actually buy their solutions from IBM, or from Debian? Once the movement is legitimized, brand name lessens its grip on the thoughts of the people with the control to help world domination.

You can't expect a firm that takes in over $10bn a year in revenue to only sell Linux solutions, just as VA Research doesn't only sell Linux solutions (or at least they didn't....are they still offering Dual Boot systems?). Until World Domination (tm) is achieved, we need to make sure that the legitimization of the movement is one of the goals.

And even if it isn't, as Linux is supposed to be a happy little community that accepts all comers, why are you harping on the fact that some of those comers have a money-making agenda?

It sounds like your problems are more with those people setting up conferences and then charging exorbitant fees for them rather than with the big companies that are helping the movement along. I agree with you. But you probably wouldn't find much to do at a ZD conference anyway: it's by suits for suits. Head off to the Gathering or something if you want a more geek-friendly conference.

Kirk

Where the hell is the moders? (1)

topdogg (200755) | more than 15 years ago | (#1885346)

WHy did this EVEN HAPPEN? Is slashdot not up to standards of watching what is posted?

Re:You just gave me an idea (1)

topdogg (200755) | more than 15 years ago | (#1885347)

Wait you mean the Jack straps from Linuxcare arn't real? Man... I got riped
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