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Critical Shortage of IT Workers in Coming Years

CowboyNeal posted more than 9 years ago | from the waning-popularity dept.

Education 1339

Juzzam writes "The Herald Sun reports that IBM and university officals are worried about the increasing demand for IT professionals and the decreasing supply of computer science students. From the article: 'The slope shows an unbelievable decline in computer science majors,' Astrachan said. 'There are smart people no longer even signing up to take our introductory courses. We need to fix it, or there's not going to be a U.S. work force in computer sciences.'"

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Obvious! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12587064)

This is what happens because of outsourcing.


I agree (5, Funny)

b00m3rang (682108) | more than 9 years ago | (#12587065)

It's not nearly difficult enough to get a good tech job yet.

This article brought to you by ITT Technical Institute.

Pig cycle (2, Insightful)

nietsch (112711) | more than 9 years ago | (#12587123)

One would expect something a bit smarter from a university. It is not without reason that fewer people are signing up, it might be related to a lack of prospects or something...
If they really care about the sector as a whole, they should point at the cycles of supply and demand and how they cause the peaks in demand(high salaries, growing bubble) and supply(low salaries).

Final answer...? (1)

lskutt (848531) | more than 9 years ago | (#12587066)

Is this their final decision?

Or will they have changed their minds by the end of next week, or what?

Re:Final answer...? (1)

ThomS (866280) | more than 9 years ago | (#12587107)

I know what you mean, every other day I seem to be reading about jobs getting outsourced to India, which is also possibly why people are wary to do a CompSci degree.

That's ok, there's plenty in India (5, Insightful)

3.5 stripes (578410) | more than 9 years ago | (#12587067)

and a good part of the rest of the world..

For better or worse, that's where it's headed too.

Re:That's ok, there's plenty in India (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12587173)

I'm glad there are more people than just me noticing this. Is this anything our government is noticing, and can do anything about? With their support of ridiculous copyright and "IP" laws, with their support of big companies offshoring, with their support of lower wages and longer working hours for the few workers we do have, is it any wonder that the IT market in other countries is doing better than us (actualyl flourishing). We're going to be left behind with what? 20 megacorporations staffed by a few dozen people each, sending more and more US money offshore?

When I say government I mean democrat, republican, whoever has been in power the last 20 years. It's more and more of the same old trash.

Good good good (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12587069)

This is great news, now I just have to tell my boss the reason why I should have a pay rise!

HA! (2, Funny)

StevenHenderson (806391) | more than 9 years ago | (#12587070)

We need to fix it, or there's not going to be a U.S. work force in computer sciences.

Whew, good thing we have India!

Supply and demand (5, Insightful)

sankyuu (847178) | more than 9 years ago | (#12587072)

Simple: Let it happen. This should drive salaries up, then more students will want to take up Computer Science.

Re:Supply and demand (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12587080)

nah it wont work... why would a company pay thousands of dollars where a 14 year old kid can do it for $50 and a reference

Re:Supply and demand (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12587102)

Isn't it more like Boom and Bust?

It takes time to educate and train people to do the jobs that need to be done. If there is high demand due to not enough CompSci people, then the demand will need to be filled at that time you can't wait for new graduates.

Re:Supply and demand (5, Interesting)

Timesprout (579035) | more than 9 years ago | (#12587112)

Its not that simple. The IT business has not shown itself to be very stable over the last few years. Not exactly encouraging as career choice and source of stable income if you have ambitions to get married, buy a house in the burbs etc. I think outsourcing is a factor currently as well. Even most non techies are aware of what has and more importantly what could happen to them should they enter IT. The prospect of suddenly being replaced by an alternative you cannot compete with economically does not engender confidence. If I was leaving school now I have to say I would probably be looking at alternative diciplines as a career choice myself. I doubt the thought of a few quick bucks in an unstable rapidly fluctuating IT market would change that.

Re:Supply and demand (2, Interesting)

ivano (584883) | more than 9 years ago | (#12587153)

well I don't see the need for developers diminishing what with all those new fangled computers everywhere. i think maybe our expectations have been raised too high with the 90s boom. i think we should picture developers as the new factory workers of the 21st century (hell, the need for these workers created the universal education system!)


Re:Supply and demand (2, Funny)

QuantumG (50515) | more than 9 years ago | (#12587258)

If your only ambitions are to get married and live in the burbs then nothing is going to help you.

Re:Supply and demand (5, Interesting)

Brendonian (92622) | more than 9 years ago | (#12587290)

The fears you highlight are not uncommon, but they are unfounded. Companies from India are not developing very good software. There is a reason outsourcing has not taken over as predicted. And the cultural and distance barriers are make it very unlikely management's 'vision' for a project are translated correctly.

The market is very ripe in my opinion for US developers. The only thing the offshoring option has done is hold wages down a bit for the last three years, but prices in India are going up too.

Re:Supply and demand (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12587146)

If salaries go up then outsourcing will be more economic. There have been problems with outsourcing not being as cheap as anticipated due to quality issues, but if there are additional costs associated with the jobs present in the USA then even given the quality issues outsourcing will be more attractive. Outsourcing will tend to be a brake on rises in salaries.

At the moment though average US wage rises are running at less than inflation, even though the growth of the economy is above inflation.

Re:Supply and demand (3, Insightful)

SolitaryMan (538416) | more than 9 years ago | (#12587166)

This should drive salaries up...

This is exactly why IBM doesn't want IT employee shortage to happen.

So what ? (0, Redundant)

puiahappy (855662) | more than 9 years ago | (#12587074)

In the "third" world are hundreds of people waiting for a job in the IT domain, whit university degree.

Re:So what ? (1)

zero_offset (200586) | more than 9 years ago | (#12587215)

And they all have communications skills roughly on par with yours. Fab!

I was going to go in IT (5, Interesting)

b5turbo (850656) | more than 9 years ago | (#12587075)

I am a student in college majoring in the IT field but I am seriously considering changing my major due to the outsourcing and job instability that plagues the IT industry as a whole. So I guess you can count me as another statistic.

Re:I was going to go in IT (5, Insightful)

a trolling stone (884793) | more than 9 years ago | (#12587170)

Become a plumber, auto mechanic or such. After all the tech jobs and manufacturing are sent overseas, those will be the good jobs.

Re:I was going to go in IT (1)

Alioth (221270) | more than 9 years ago | (#12587195)

If that happens, there will be no one left who can afford the services of plumbers and auto mechanics. Plumbers, plasterers, builders etc. generally are in demand when there are plenty of good jobs around and high salaries, and people can afford to have work done on their houses.

Re:I was going to go in IT (1)

Skapare (16644) | more than 9 years ago | (#12587217)

Exactly. Jobs in which you have to work with your hands cannot be so easily telecommuted around the globe. But be ready for greater than five dollar a gallon gasoline since telecommuting jobs in the USA will all but disappear and everyone will have to drive around to get work.

Of course not ... (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12587076)

Smart people are becoming IP lawyers. That's were the big bucks is.

Re:Of course not ... (1)

Kinky Bass Junk (880011) | more than 9 years ago | (#12587091)

Too bad you get heckled at every turn

Re:Of course not ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12587106)

Yeah, but still I would be laughing all the way to the banquet :-)

Re:Of course not ... (1)

realinvalidname (529939) | more than 9 years ago | (#12587249)

The only thing America produces anymore is lawsuits, so that probably is a good career choice.

Not only America (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12587077)

This trend is not exclusive for America. I remember reading about something very similar for Denmark three months ago. It is possible that people are scared off these educations because of out-sourcing. I remember reading about more and more IT work being outsourced to India several times here on Slashdot. So what are you to believe?

[OT] Re:Not only America (4, Insightful)

MartinG (52587) | more than 9 years ago | (#12587252)

It is possible that people are scared off these educations because of out-sourcing.

For me it would have more to do with the threat of software patents than the threat of outsourcing. At least with outsourcing you know what you are up against. With the software patent mess you could be doing just fine until suddenty $GREEDYCORP comes and pulls the plug just because they had the resources to buy a patent when they though of the same idea that you also thought of.

(sorry for being a bit offtopic, but for me its a much bigger reason)

Re:Not only America (2, Insightful)

Capt James McCarthy (860294) | more than 9 years ago | (#12587282)

Wow, kids look at the long hours, fear of off-shoring, deminishing pay scales, being crapped on and say to themselves, "That may not be for me." Big surprise.

I think a general population of students (not country limited) has a lot in common with a lightening bolt. It will take the path of least resistance.

Well, that explains... (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12587081)

...why computer science and computer engineering is the most impacted major at the University I attend. Seems to me there's an over abundance of them, especially with the decreasing starting pay I've heard about from some friends (although I suppose that could be more regional than anything else).

Great news! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12587083)

Increases my chance of getting a H1-B :-)

No Problem (5, Funny)

obender (546976) | more than 9 years ago | (#12587084)

We'll just raise a clone army.

Unfortunately... (1)

Winckle (870180) | more than 9 years ago | (#12587209)

Without IT professionals, who will build our clone army?

Re:Unfortunately... (1)

xtracto (837672) | more than 9 years ago | (#12587256)


Normal ebb and flow (4, Insightful)

ajs (35943) | more than 9 years ago | (#12587088)

No industry has enough people all time. They go through phases of having too many and too much. When there are too many, the people who can't find jobs look to other fields. When there are too few, the opposite happens.

The fact that there were too few people for the jobs was why I was able to break in to the sysadmin / programming world without any credentials back in 1990.

Rope-A-Dope (2, Interesting)

yellowsubmarine (794870) | more than 9 years ago | (#12587089)

Translation: We need an excuse to ship the remaining IT and R&D jobs overseas and bring in some more H1 Visas.

Reading between the lines (5, Interesting)

Walkiry (698192) | more than 9 years ago | (#12587090)

>decreasing supply of computer science students

What does that mean? The real worry is not the lack of IT professionals, but rather the lack of keen, young, fresh and still clueless recently graduated computer science graduates to hire for peanuts and milk for all they're worth.

Nobody wants someone with 10 years of experience and a family to support, those people expect benefits and regular working hours! The nerve!

Re:Reading between the lines (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12587103)

right on brother. About time these fucking corporations start facing the fact that people are sick and tired of being ripped off.

Re:Reading between the lines (2, Insightful)

yellowsubmarine (794870) | more than 9 years ago | (#12587115)

Agree, Considering IBM just laid of about 10,000 highly paid workers in their Global Consulting Services field.

Re:Reading between the lines (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12587133)

"You look at the size of this company, and it's one of the big leaders in its market," Mouallem said. "They do a lot to help students get a chance to work with them. It's really promising."

And in the same time they fire lots of people to boost there shares. tscan06.html [] [IBM Layoff Is Positive Step In Cutting Costs]

The research firm had estimated that every 1,000 people represents per-share savings of 3 cents to 4 cents for IBM, assuming no loss in revenue.
Yeah I sooo want to work in that business, they have so much respect for there workers.

Re:Reading between the lines (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12587151)

This just in :
The new official measure for workforce will now be "cents per 1000 people per share"

Re:Reading between the lines (5, Insightful)

akuma624 (690011) | more than 9 years ago | (#12587190)

Completely true ... at times I think these companies truly don't understand the skills that only experience can teach. Raw knowledge is great but without any experience it is basically all theory.

Re:Reading between the lines (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12587194)

You hit the nail on the head with that one. I am in that exact same boat in the UK. I am getting out of IT. Sick to death of working under the sword of Damocles - worrying all the time that my job going to India or not?

Re:Reading between the lines (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12587232)

Say you have the 10 years experience and you apply for this dream job online. You google for the few given clues and you suddenly find a shedload of information on the guy you need to send your CV to.

The cynical bugger in me sees that:

  • the guy is young
  • 10 years in the field say that it's the guy's first "real" job
  • if the guy feels threatened by someone "more qualified", CV and application will end-up in the bin
  • his is the only email on the offer, nobody else to CC to
I don't know what to do, really... this is france we're talking about but anyone else got themselves in a similar situation?

if past is an indicator, US will bounce back (1)

CSS (879046) | more than 9 years ago | (#12587092)

US is the epitome of capitalism. A similar situation in the 1960s forced massive investment in primary education and schooling that paved the way for US dominance in technology With a population of only 285 million and the large availability of resources, one of the answers is to allow unlimited visa in the field of education to allow US to continue to keep its dominance And if China were to float the yuan, their competitiveness would vanish. India on the contrary with its spiralling labour costs will loose its significant advantage in the next 3 to 5 years

payper liesense corepirate nazi softwar gangsters (1)

already_gone (848753) | more than 9 years ago | (#12587093)

souring US towards 'working' in the pc 'industrIE'?

not to mention the fallout from the decades long felonious stock markup scammage.

all is not lost/forgotten.

no need to fret (unless you're associated/joined at the hype with, unprecedented evile), it's all just a part of the creators' wwwildly popular, newclear powered, planet/population rescue initiative/mandate.

or is it ground hog day, again? many of US are obviously not interested in how we appear (which is whoreabull) from the other side of the 'lens', or even from across the oceans.

vote with (what's left in) yOUR wallet. help bring an end to unprecedented evile's manifestation through yOUR owned felonious corepirate nazi life0cidal glowbull warmongering execrable.

we still haven't read (here) about the 2/3'rds of you kids who are investigating/pursuing a spiritual/conscience/concious re-awakening, in amongst the 'stuff that matters'? another big surprise?

some of US should consider ourselves very fortunate to be among those scheduled to survive after the big flash/implementation of the creators' wwwildly popular planet/population rescue initiative/mandate.

it's right in the manual, 'world without end', etc....

as we all ?know?, change is inevitable, & denying/ignoring gravity, logic, morality, etc..., is only possible, on a temporary basis.

concern about the course of events that will occur should the corepirate nazi life0cidal execrable fail to be intervened upon is in order.

'do not be dismayed' (also from the manual). however, it's ok/recommended, to not attempt to live under/accept, fauxking nazi felon greed/fear/ego based pr ?firm? scriptdead mindphuking hypenosys.

for each of the creators' innocents harmed, there is a debt that must/will be repaid by you/us, as the perpetrators/minions of unprecedented evile, will not be available.

consult with/trust in yOUR creators. providing more than enough of everything for everyone (without any distracting/spiritdead personal gain motives), whilst badtolling unprecedented evile, using an unlimited supply of newclear power, since/until forever. see you there?

"If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land."

Re: Wtf? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12587108)

While reading this post I kept expecting to see links to "bvy v1@grA on1in3 n0w~!" and going for my "Mark as spam" button.

Re:payper liesense corepirate nazi softwar gangste (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12587142)

Kool Keith, is it really you? All I can say is I really loved "Sexstyle," and "The Black Elvis" was a masterpiece. Keep dropping crazy science and I'll keep buying your albums.

Wow... (4, Insightful)

creimer (824291) | more than 9 years ago | (#12587094)

They finally noticed that there was a problem. The pipeline been dry for four years now since the dot com went bust and computers are not the guaranteed money tree as it was before. Of course, with all the outsourcing to other countries for cheap talent, it's easy to forget the pipeline here. I wonder when these companies are going to realize that they can't have their cake and eat it at the same time.

How Strange.... (1)

ThomS (866280) | more than 9 years ago | (#12587099)

They should talk to my mum, she knows for a fact that I shouldn't do CompSci because of a shortage of jobs. And she read it in the paper, so it must be true.

Interpretive languages at fault? (1, Interesting)

james_couzens (799702) | more than 9 years ago | (#12587101)

It makes one ponder just what the full scale adoption of interpretive languages has done. Yeah yeah Java compiles sure sure... its just like XML, its about as extensible or cross platform as Eddie Murphy is to an albino.

Looking at post-secondary curriculum I see nothing but Java being taught, and I think this is a pretty big mistake. Who cares if its easy, if you don't undersstand the fundamentals of how computer hardware and operating systems interact, you don't stand a chance at either staying interested or actually writing anything not crappy.

The biggest problem is that the IT industry was flooded with fucking asshats interested in it only for the money. I recall quite clearly a former friend who was a landscaper. I didn't see him for a couple of years and then ran into him downtown where he told me he was learning C++ and Java, at which point I suddenly felt the urge to vommit.

Re:Interpretive languages at fault? (3, Insightful)

Timesprout (579035) | more than 9 years ago | (#12587187)

Tell you what, if you walked into an interview with me with that sort of attitude theres is not a snowballs chance in fucking hell of you getting hired.

This 'coding is a destiny' and cant be learned crap is just a self comforting excuse for saddos who dont have the requisite skillset to actually get a job or compete in the job market.

you mean java is slow? (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12587219)

WHAT? java is slow? and not cross-platform? WHY DID NO-ONE MENTION THIS ON SLASHDOT BEFORE?

please, wake me up when you've got a new cliche to peddle. as a java developer who develops on windows and linux and deploys to solaris I really don't know what you're on about. it takes more effort or a great deal of stupidity to write non cross-platform java. and as for it being just like XML... thanks for that. at least I don't have to go to the trouble of exposing your ignorance.

I'm sorry, I know I shouldn't feed the trolls but I'm having a bad day.

Re:Interpretive languages at fault? (1)

zero_offset (200586) | more than 9 years ago | (#12587235)

The biggest problem is that the IT industry was flooded with fucking asshats interested in it only for the money.

I assume you're talking about the CEOs...

For those who remain (2, Informative)

FidelCatsro (861135) | more than 9 years ago | (#12587111)

There may be a shortage of IT workers in the USA indeed soon.
I may then move to the USA , As one thing a shortage of workers means is a nice hefty salary.
So for those who remain in the field could very likely expect a rather nice pay rise, for those remaining jobs that don't get offshored that is (mainly tech , Services , administration etc things that can't yet be offshored easily )

Re:For those who remain (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12587200)

I'm sure dictator pays more than IT.

Re:For those who remain (1)

FidelCatsro (861135) | more than 9 years ago | (#12587283)

Tell that to bill gates

The corperations deserve it. (0, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12587113)

They are the ones that screwed most of the IT sector with outsourcing everything they possibly could.

they are also the ones that horribly inflated the It job market in the late 90's by offering unrealistic salaries (Sorry, no IT worker is worth 150K+ realistic pay is the $39K->89K depending on skillset and experience as well as position)

So I say screw em. I hope there is a HUGE IT shortage and it bites companies in the arse hard.

these fuckers in the boardroom happily made a large number of people jobless yet refused to take a cut in pay themselves.

WAH, boo fucking hoo corperate america. You so deserve this it is not even funny. Most people will not spend 6 years in college for a ~$70K a year job, so IT is skipped for other fields that pay better and are not affected by the whims of a idiot in corperate board room or the worthless Certifications that are marketed as worthwhile. (No a MCSE is 100% worthless to a company it does not even signify any level of competence other that you can test and learn incorrect termonology. that microsoft likes to use so that real IT pros can not simply pass the test without buying the coursework.... no matter WHAT MS says you boot from the boot partition and run from the system partition, just because they like to name shit back-asswards does NOT make it right.)

so to finalize my tirade....

FUCK OFF CORPERATE AMERICA. as a spokesperson for many of the IT pro's here that were employed 6 years ago we all flip you a giant middle finger.

misrep (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12587114)

Notice the use of the acro 'IT'. That's part of the problem - do you want technical support people filling out the ranks or do you want software developers?

One of my major gripes about 'the industry' as it stands is the lack of distinction between what is considered 'IT' work and what is programming 'and ecetera and ecetera'.

Saying 'well, we need more CS grads' is straight depressing. What they should be saying is 'we need more software developers (computer science grads) or we need more System administrators (computer information system grads)'.

When I was in school it seemed that people wanting to do CIS work were getting CS degrees and visa versa. This discredits to both areas of work.

All too often I've noticed jobs that require a computer science degree when that should be slated under computer system information management. Or a requirement for a computer engineer when in fact, the work is computer science related.

Come on folks - let's get our terminology right! I work a job that required a computer science degree and any CIS major could work this job in a heart beat.

I guess getting the point across regarding what is IT would probably require a weekend feel good seminar for the clinically lost.

Re:misrep (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12587196)

What's even more interesting is looking at the other replies in this thread - even amongst ourselves there is still confusion as to what I would consider 'IT' (CIS work) and programming (CS work)!

Perfect sense (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12587122)

So everybody is outsourcing, you read every week about companies firing IT peole, and you want the students to study CS.


I'm a starving CS Major (1)

btnheazy03 (829328) | more than 9 years ago | (#12587128)

Will you hire me? I know what linux is! Isn't that what CS people say? Linux?

Not just IT (4, Interesting)

Momoru (837801) | more than 9 years ago | (#12587130)

Every industry will be critically short of workers in 5-10 years. My company has estimated we may lose as much as 30% of our staff due to babyboomers retiring.

That's fine (1)

term8or (576787) | more than 9 years ago | (#12587137)

We need to fix it, or there's not going to be a U.S. work force in computer sciences.'"

Since India can provide all America's clueless graduate needs at only $5 a day and no healthcare.

H1B visas are a real option (3, Insightful)

standards (461431) | more than 9 years ago | (#12587139)

Congress could allow for more H1B visas, permitting high-quality IT professionals to be brought into the USA where skills are lacking.

To be honest, most skilled American IT employees are gainfully employed now (with some exceptions in some areas). Some will look at H1Bs as just a way to hire cheap overseas labor to replace current "living wage" American jobs, but in reality there is a real need despite the coincidental labor cost differences.

Americans should realize that they need to compete in this new world economy by either working for fewer wages and benefits, or by offering much higher skills and capabilities. Or both. Congress realizes this, and should take action to support American business, the economy, and people.

Re:H1B visas are a real option (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12587225)

Congress could allow for more H1B visas, permitting high-quality IT professionals to be brought into the USA where skills are lacking.

Thus making it even less likely that anyone will take up IT courses in the US.

Americans should realize that they need to compete in this new world economy by either working for fewer wages and benefits, or by offering much higher skills and capabilities.

What you mean is poor Americans must do this, the rich Americans that own the companies will not be affected and can get on with their graft and tax-dodging and buying politicians as usual.

Why exactly does the whole of the American governmental system have to be geared to supporting the tiny aristocracy at the top?


Re:H1B visas are a real option (2, Insightful)

Seumas (6865) | more than 9 years ago | (#12587270)

How dare you. It is not corporate America's fault that you can't live on the $1/day that slave labor in China can.

Soy latino (1)

xtracto (837672) | more than 9 years ago | (#12587279)

I pwn u!

hire the unemployed IT professionals? (3, Informative)

adapt (105738) | more than 9 years ago | (#12587143)

There are plenty of talented IT professionals on the market searching for tech jobs.

A couple of weeks ago, I logged in Siemens worldwide jobs site, and, in my field, 321 out of 322 open positions were in China.

Most employers could see the benefits of offering job security and paying decent salaries as an effective means of retaining the talent (and all those hours spent in training...). Instead, they hire temps, pay huge fees to temp agencies and recruiters, they "outsource", etc. Without a knowledge base, there is no future in any company.

It is more a problem of "if I pay you less, I can keep more for myself" than a true lack of qualified professionals on the market. If engineers wanted to flip burgers they would have studied at the burger flipping college! :)

Re:hire the unemployed IT professionals? (3, Funny)

TWooster (696270) | more than 9 years ago | (#12587163)

Where is this burger flipping college you speak of? Are they accepting applications for fall enrollment?

Re:hire the unemployed IT professionals? (1)

adapt (105738) | more than 9 years ago | (#12587241)

Real men download the specs from the standardisation committee, implement it in FORTRAN, and release an Open Source version.

Burgers are not different from chips.

Re:hire the unemployed IT professionals? (1)

Legion303 (97901) | more than 9 years ago | (#12587172)

"There are plenty of talented IT professionals on the market searching for tech jobs."

The cynical part of me says that IBM is gearing up to push (more of?) their work overseas. The practical part of me says I'm probably right. The cynical part pipes up again and says IBM donating $30 million to universities is likely just a smokescreen. The rest of me tells the other two to shut the hell up because we're trying to get some sleep in here, goddammit.

IBM and double standards (5, Interesting)

rongage (237813) | more than 9 years ago | (#12587149)

If IBM were so concerned about the number of IT workers, maybe it should become a better employer first.

You see, IBM for the past several years has been on a hiring binge, but with very rare exception, every new hire is brought in as a "supplemental". A supplemental, by IBM's definition, is a temporary position that CAN NOT continue past 18 months. Once your supplemental service is over, you are blacklisted by IBM for another 6 months - no rehire possible.

When I left IBM (near the end of my supplemental "tour of duty"), IBM was in a hiring freeze, there was no way to become a full-time employee, regardless of demand. Oh, and as a supplemental for IBM, the ONLY benefit you are eligible for is the employee stock purchase plan. That's right, no insurance, no 401k or pension, no education assistance, nothing else!

If IBM needs more employees, then they need to stop chewing through their existing stock (and spitting them out) so rapidly.

Normal ebb and flow (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12587152)

you might have been able to get a job in the old days without any credentials, but i think these days it's way harder to get the same type of position you might have been able to before. Plus HR people can screen easier cause they now have questionaires developed by senior admins to weed out the weak. some of these jobs seem like you need to know a huge list of things all equally well. They want a master of all trades, and jack of none.

Good news for the Philippines (1)

Pao|o (92817) | more than 9 years ago | (#12587155)

Our diploma mills produce tens of thousands of IT grads each year. They know all their Microsoft ABCs! Di pa kami mabantot!

Computing in the USA controlled by lawyerocracy (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12587156)

Why on earth would one want to work in the US computing industry now? If you're a talented coder, some slimy lawyer waving an utterly trivial patent will shut you down.

The industry is run by the lawyers, for the lawyers. It's time for a declaration of tech independence:

"You nontechs can hold patents all you want. You can enforce them against eachother. We techs will not seek patents or enforce them against you, but we will laugh in your faces, oh and maybe shoot you, if you try to restrict us with them. Only those that seek to restrict others with patent monopolies shall be themselves so restricted"

Huh ? (3, Interesting)

alexhs (877055) | more than 9 years ago | (#12587159)

Yesterday (still on the bottom of the front page) :
Technology Paradise Lost
[...] many believe that the sector will regain its past glory and blistering growth rates. [...] it's not going to happen. [...]

Today :
Critical Shortage of IT Workers in Coming Years
[...] worried about the increasing demand for IT professionals [...]

If there's no sector growth, is there really increasing IT workers demand ?

Aren't these mutually exclusive points of view ?

Re:Huh ? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12587175)

Welcome to the Internet, where you can find anyone to say anything you want.

woohoo (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12587161)

As a first year computer science student,
lots of well paid jobs...

ha ha (1)

ylikone (589264) | more than 9 years ago | (#12587263)

Actually, there are tons of new graduates looking for work. The companies are lying about not finding IT workers... they just can't find cheap IT workers who are experienced so they offshore.

There are smart people no longer even signing up (1)

frovingslosh (582462) | more than 9 years ago | (#12587168)

There are smart people no longer even signing up to take our introductory courses.

Doh! Maybe that because they have enough sense to see the trend of sending their prespective jobs to India or even giving people from India work visas to come and to take the jobs here at lower wages. Damn right the smart people are not training for programming jobs.

Not to worry... (1)

redeye69 (877540) | more than 9 years ago | (#12587192)

HP have a spare 15,000 [] or so... Oh, and didnt IBM recently ditch about 13,000 [] too? With 28,000 experienced professionals back on the market, the university's could take a year off!

Critical Shortage of IT Professionals (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12587208)

As I read through this list of "I told ya so's" aimed at "Corperate America," I am struck by the number of IT Professionals who seem to have no language skills associated with the English language. No wonder you people can't get a job. No one could understand your application!

HEY IBM!! (1)

N3WBI3 (595976) | more than 9 years ago | (#12587210)

You might want to look at the 10K people you just laid off...

WTF are they talking about (1)

haggar (72771) | more than 9 years ago | (#12587220)

OF COURSE there are less people interested in pursuing a career in IT. Heck, even I am thinking to switch boat, by taking college again. IT workers are being treated like shit, more and more. Yeah, let's outsource them to the lowest bidder - it's a crap job anyway, right? That's the mentality, let's not gloss over it.

Sure, someone will say that the most experienced programmers, designers etc. will always have high salaries and a good carreer. The truth is, however, that the circle of the elite ITs is shrinking inexorably.

So, IBM et al, do not shed your chrocodile tears, no one cares.

Duh. (1)

Seumas (6865) | more than 9 years ago | (#12587222)

I thought there was always a massive shortage? Isn't that why congress allowed for massive amounts of additional H1Bs almost a decade ago and why we're offshoring everything?

Farm the work out to the cheapest sources you can find, reducing the salary and benefit levels of the industry, making it less enticing to future students entering the workforce. And then wonder why you have a shortage?

Trust me, there are plenty of young people who want a career in computers. However, they don't want to live ten deep in a studio apartment, take the bus to work and worry if their job is going to be outsourced at any time.

People go where the good pay and benefits are. No matter how "fun" a job is, there is a level below which the compensation for that job does not justify it. Students today are not stupid.

Theres staff.... but picky companies (1)

timigoe (797580) | more than 9 years ago | (#12587237)

I'm a UK graduate in Comp Sci. and I'm finding theres lots of jobs in IT, but nothing thats useful for a graduate - all asking too much.

I've been applying now since November to find a graduate job starting in July.

i'm part of the problem (1)

mdmarkus (522132) | more than 9 years ago | (#12587248)

I've been working in various aspects of IT for 20 years, and i've ab't had it. Too much change for change's sake, development of deadlines before requirements, and ongoing threats of layoffs. It's no fun anymore. Time for me to go do something different. In a year or two, i plan to go back to graduate school to study geography and cartography. Maybe i'll still be working with computers, but i'll be concentrating on the subject, and not the tool...

:O HEY!! theres my field... haha.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12587251)

hey I guess I'll be in high demand then :D or something... haha...

If there's a shortage... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12587259)

then why do I get so many resumes every time I advertise a tech job that pays over $8/hour? When I advertise for a janitor position that makes more than our programmers, I get no replies. Also, why is it that out of the probably 600 students I've taught while working part-time at a tech college, I know of only one that is employeed as a programmer. The rest worked hard and spent money for tuition for two years to only be disappointed by not being able to find a job programming. Or why is it that when I sent-out a survey to my 60 fellow Computer Engineering graduates in my class of 1989 and the two classes before that, that I'm the only one that's working with computers? Half of the people that replied said they wanted a job in the field, but I'm the only one that was lucky enough to actually find a job in this field. Again, computer engineering graduates from one of the best universities in the US with up to 15 years of experience can't find a job in this field.

Nah, there's way too many tech people. Even the good tech people with experience have no hope of find a job.

Solution for IT pro's (1)

fbg111 (529550) | more than 9 years ago | (#12587269)

I've recently gone to work in IT for an airline, a good one, and there is no way they can outsource IT. Things just move too fast, the industry is too competitive, and survival depends on how fast you can roll out new features, from web booking engine upgrades to CRM techniques to internal business intelligence systems. This company went from $4 million to $300 million in website ticket sales over the past three years due to technology alone, and made the company ridiculously profitable for the first time since deregulation in '78. On the flip side, we lost $500,000 last week b/c our hosted website booking engine went down. Further, almost all new market opportunities are best exploited these days via technology, and whoever rolls out the tech first has a bankable advantage. When you make $1 million per day, that advantage translates into real money. Outsourcing to the other side of the world would introduce an intolerable inefficiency into the system, making outsourcing less likely than in other areas of IT. The competition and sense of urgency really make the job fun too. So my advice to IT pro's looking to stay in their field but concerned about getting outsourced is to identify industries like the airline industry where outsourcing is difficult or impossible, and go to work there. ymmv.

*Yawn* not again (2, Insightful)

GauteL (29207) | more than 9 years ago | (#12587273)

There is no real shortage of IT-people, only a shortage of people that are willing to work for almost nothing.

The industry's wet dream is for IT-workers to become completely disposable and low paid.

We really should not let this happen, and most could use a history lesson to figure out what happens when we get into this situation.

There once was a seriously real need for labour unions folks, and that time could easily come again. Maybe it is already here.

Hypocritical (1)

Ritz_Just_Ritz (883997) | more than 9 years ago | (#12587278)

The companies complaining about this "shortage" are the same ones that were cutting Comp Sci majors off at the knees when the companies overextended themselves during the "bubble" years. Those same companies then ran out and auctioned off their development to the lowest bidders in India/China/Eastern Europe...only to find out that the hourly wage wasn't a very good predictor of overall cost. So now they want to come back "home" and wonder why there's a lack of trust in the future or salability of a Comp Sci degree. Gee, what an ungrateful lot we are... 8-) Cheers,

Same old - same old (5, Interesting)

tsotha (720379) | more than 9 years ago | (#12587281)

I've been hearing this kinda crap since I got out of school almost twenty years ago. Every time we're in the boom part of the cycle it's "we don't have enough [CS graduates | Engineers]". During a bust it's "We won't have enough to support the economy in a few years." Well kids, let me clue you in.

It's all a scam.

Big computer, defense, and, to a lesser extent, manufacturing companies pay shills in academia and "think tanks" to gin up these kinds of studies every couple of years so Congress has some political cover when they increase the H1-B cap. It's not true, and it never has been. The only shortage that ever materialized in those two decades happened during the boom, and that was caused by a huge spike in demand.

The goal here is to make sure there's plenty of hungry technical people around so they don't have to pay them too much.

Just make sure you remember... (1)

hipster_doofus (670671) | more than 9 years ago | (#12587294)

... what happened during the boom times of the late '90s and the early '00s. There were plenty of Comp Sci students, but many of them were there only for the money - and it showed. I've never met so many half-@$$ed developers, analysts, etc. in my life!

So maybe this time around, Comp Sci departments should focus their attention on improving the numbers of students who will benefit the field in the long term.

I wonder... (1)

Wdomburg (141264) | more than 9 years ago | (#12587296)

I wonder what percentage of IT workers even has a CS degree is.
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