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Netbeans 4.1 Released

Zonk posted more than 9 years ago | from the mmmm-beans dept.

Java 240

njcoder writes "Netbeans 4.1 was released a few days ago. Though it is only a short time since 4.0 was released and only a minor version number increase, the new Netbeans 4.1 contains a number of significant enhancements. New features include enhanced support for J2ME (mobile) projects, a new Navigator component, enhancements to the Ant based project system, ability to define multiple source roots, enhanced support for J2EE applications including EJB support for creating Session, Entity and Message Driven Beans, bundled J2EE application server, bundled Tomcat server upgraded to the 5.5 series, Web Services support, Eclipse project import tool, and more. The days of a slow and ugly Netbeans seem to be over. Using the new Metal look and feel in Java 5 brightens things up a bit as well. More information can be found in the release info and go here to download the new version. Java boutique has a review, with screenshots, of the new released titled IDE Wars: Has NetBeans 4.1 Eclipsed Eclipse?."

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Netbroken (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12595024)

I don't care what new features it has, is it stable? We used Netbeans for a while (a few months ago) at the company I work for in Austin, but we gave up on it because it crashed constantly. We ended up switching to Eclipse half way through the project at a great loss, but at least it's stable. I have very few good things to say about Netbeans...

Re:Netbroken (4, Informative)

njcoder (657816) | more than 9 years ago | (#12595049)

I haven't had any stability issues running Netbeans 3.6 up to 4.1 on windows using JDK's 1.4.2 and 1.5. Ever since 4.0 and jdk 1.5 came out performance was a lot better too.

Re:Netbroken. . . but it had webapp debugging! (3, Insightful)

SSalvatore (666913) | more than 9 years ago | (#12595117)

True, it was very unstable. But I would like it better than Eclipse (if it didn't crash and was faster). I was never able to find webapp debugging in Eclipse, so now I'm down to printouts.

There must be something better out there. Am I missing some webapp debug tool for Eclipse?

Another thing: I loved the Search/Highlight feature (like the google bar). I think that this is fundamental for OO programming: you search for an object identifier in a piece of code and then you are able to quickly look at all the methods that are called on that object so you get an immediate feeling of what the code is doing to manipulate the object. Ecplise does not have that.

But it works, so I am using Eclipse.

As for the question: noup, NB is not eclipsing anything. It was about to eclipse Eclipse but it crashed yet another time and missed its chance.

Re:Netbroken. . . but it had webapp debugging! (2, Interesting)

DeafByBeheading (881815) | more than 9 years ago | (#12595416)

I think that this is fundamental for OO programming: you search for an object identifier in a piece of code and then you are able to quickly look at all the methods that are called on that object so you get an immediate feeling of what the code is doing to manipulate the object. Ecplise does not have that.
From the search menu...
Java Search:

... blah blah standard search features blah blah...

Search for:

()Type
()Method
()Package
()Constructor
()Field

Limit to:
()Declarations
()Implementors
()References
()All occurences
()Read access
()Write access

[] Search the JRE System Libraries
One of my favorite things about eclipse is its powerful search capabilities...

Re:Netbroken (1)

mboverload (657893) | more than 9 years ago | (#12595151)

In classic Slashdot fashion, the summary fails to even tell us what Netbeans is.

Re:Netbroken (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12595509)

Real Slashdotters already know. Besides, you are welcome to take advantage of the provided links.

They've fucked up cvs with 4.1 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12595589)

By removing checkout from the right click menu. All because some idiot complained on the mailing lists that he was confused about how it worked with checkout an update. So despite checkout being there since the begining without issue, we all now have to suffer thanks to one schmuck an a knee jerk developer reaction.

Checkout and Update are NOT synonymous, update overwrites locally modified files while checkout doesn't. This makes it tedious to get updates to parts of a program while you are working on another part. Would be nice to at least have the option to enable checkout.

Several of my co-workers have decided to stick with 4.0 because of this.

Re:Netbroken (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12595654)

I have used both NetBeans and Eclipse. NetBeans is by far the better Java editor. It's faster and more intutive. It's easier to use. It's easier to configure. It has better Java development features. The ONLY drawback, and yes it is a BIG drawback is the plugin support. If only a standard for plugins could be created and supported by both, I would be happy...

SWT is faster than AWT (3, Interesting)

guyfromindia (812078) | more than 9 years ago | (#12595054)

The fact that Eclipse is built on SWT and NetBeans is based on AWT itself speaks volumes. From TFA "I have felt that Eclipse is getting slower over the versions, while, at least the word on the street is, NetBeans has evolved in the other direction." Maybe this is the author's perception, but again, I am not sure if NetBeans will perform faster than Eclipse with equal types of plug-ins loaded.

Re:SWT is faster than AWT (3, Informative)

grahamsz (150076) | more than 9 years ago | (#12595124)

In principle SWT is faster the AWT or Swing, but not by a huge amount. The way an application is coded probably makes a far bigger difference to performance.

Swing apps are now directx/opengl accelerated which imho has made a pretty big difference, and done a fair bit to level the playing field.

I'm a little biased since i've been very impressed with Nb 4.0. Older versions were definitely slower than eclipse but 4.0 seems every bit as responsive.

Re:SWT is faster than AWT (1)

bryan986 (833912) | more than 9 years ago | (#12595130)

NetBeans has a huge advantage over Eclipse because it is built specifically for Java, and uses little if any plugins, its easy to use, and it has loads of features that I have yet to find in any Eclipse plugin.

Re:SWT is faster than AWT (1)

killjoe (766577) | more than 9 years ago | (#12595308)

The latest eclipse milestone is much faster then the previous milestone, whatever speed difference there is now will probably disapear with the next version.

Re:SWT is faster than AWT (4, Informative)

jilles (20976) | more than 9 years ago | (#12595585)

I use eclipse every day: it is slow. IBM was mistaken in thinking that SWT was a solution for performance issues in IDEs. I work with eclipse on a daily basis. I recently replaced 3.0.2 with 3.1M7. I've given up on the myeclipse J2EE plugins because these bring my system down to crawl. Netbeans offers similar features to the eclipse + myeclipse combo and is noticably faster on the same projects (basically the only thing eclipse does well IMHO is editing java code). By faster I mean that the dialogs are more responsive, I spend much less time waiting for the IDE to finish validating, manipulating large project trees in the project explorer is fast and responsive.

The rendering myth is bullshit both swt and swing use native, hardware accelerated routines to do the rendering. SWT uses native gui libraries to do this, swing uses java2d which in turn uses either directx or opengl depending on what os/vm combination you use. Rendering stuff on the screen is not an issue with either. SWT basically suffers from the same performance bottleneck as Swing: the event queue and rendering logic share the same thread. This means that lengthy event handling code blocks the UI. The solution is using a worker thread to off load lengthy operations. Using worker threads everywhere was the big improvement in netbeans 4.0 and is the reason why you are now seeing reports everywhere on netbeans outperforming eclipse. Good swing applications use worker threads. Many swing applications are coded by people who don't understand threading though. The same is true for swt. If you understand how to use threading you can build nice responsive UIs with both.

The eclipse UI blocks frequently. Opening/closing a large project tree is a good example. In netbeans there's no delay no matter how big your project is, in eclipse there is a noticable half second freeze even on small projects. Eclipse frequently freezes for a few seconds.

3.1 M7 is actually quite an improvement performance wise but they've not catched up with netbeans yet and will have to do much more to compete effectively. If you read the changelogs you'll see they are full of performance fixes. Apparently there are lots of performance issues to fix.

The reason I continue to use eclipse rather than netbeans is the Java editor. It is simply much better & smarter than the netbeans code editor (though slightly less responsive). I don't care for project wizards, I just want a smart code editor that helps me rapidly poor out code. Refactoring and code completions are where eclipse really shines. The debugger is nice too and quite handy if you install the right plugin for integrating with tomcat.

Re:SWT is faster than AWT (1)

OpenGLFan (56206) | more than 9 years ago | (#12595790)

I can't say much about the newest (4.0+) versins of netbeans, but I do have an odd observation about the performance of Eclipse. Eclipse did feel odd and laggy on my brand new shiny Athlon 64 laptop, and when the laptop went in for repair and I was forced back to my 600MHz Pentium 3 laptop, I expected the performance to drag horribly.

But no, the performance wasn't too much slower! I knew I wasn't on the blazing fast laptop, but I saw much more performance degradation on other applications (firefox, thunderbird, command-line compilation, openoffice, etc.)

I have absolutely no clue why -- but eclipse seems to be "fast enough, but no faster." Has anyone noticed this effect, in eclipse or other Java applications?

Swing sucks (2, Informative)

cahiha (873942) | more than 9 years ago | (#12595853)

Well, you haven't told us what platform you run on (Windows?). Under X11, Swing sucks horribly, and not just in terms of performace. The worst part of Swing is that it almost looks like a native toolkit, but it behaves wrong in so many ways.

There are decent cross platform toolkits. There are even decent cross platform toolkits that do their own rendering. Swing is not one of them.

Re:Swing sucks (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12595871)

Yea. SWT is sooo much better on Linux..

Eclipsed Eclipse? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12595062)

Of course they have! What would be the point of continuing to develop if they couldn't do better than the competition?

Now we have to wait and see what Eclipse will do to surpass NetBeans.

Am I the only one on here who likes Netbeans? (5, Interesting)

AntsInMyPants (819105) | more than 9 years ago | (#12595071)

Judging from most of the comments when netbeans news is posted, it appears that the vast majority of slashdot users hate netbeans, especially when compared to eclipse. I do application and light web development using net beans and I find it very easy to use and responsive, even though I don't have the best quality hardware.

The UI is responsive and the controls are intuitive. Building web apps isn't too difficult either. So where is the love?

Re:Am I the only one on here who likes Netbeans? (5, Informative)

mcbridematt (544099) | more than 9 years ago | (#12595106)

I'm a die hard NetBeans fan too. I'd be lost without it. I don't really have a problem with the use of Swing at all, and NetBeans looks nice when your using the native look'n'feel from the 1.5 JDK.

Re:Am I the only one on here who likes Netbeans? (3, Insightful)

njcoder (657816) | more than 9 years ago | (#12595148)

Eclipse definately has become more popular. That's probably due to the weaknesses in the earlier (3.5 and bellow) versions of Netbeans. I've used both over time and wound up going back to Netbeans consistently.

Web application development is a lot easier for me in Netbeans. If you've never done any java web application development Netbeans is definately the tool. It's very well integrated into the system. Right after you install it you can start to develop, debug and test web apps. The bundled tomcat server makes the whole setup a snap. You can even set up breakpoints and watches in JSP pages. When I first tried Eclipse, I was very dissapointed that it didn't even have a JSP editor. I spent a day looking through the different plugins trying to decide on one. None of them (at the time at least) were free, at least not anything good.

The way IBM is marketting Eclipse seems to be mainly as a barebones IDE where other vendors can write plugins to sell to users. Meanwhile, netbeans comes with a lot more with the initial install. I tried MyEclipse but I didn't want to pay 32 bucks a year for something I thought should have been part of the package.

The refactoring support is a lot better in Eclipse though. You can install the RefactorIT module in Netbeans and get a lot better refactoring support. It's a commercial module with a free version that supports limited numbers of files. The pricing isn't too bad for the features you get and the Netbeans team is working on more advanced refactoring features.

From some blogs and news articles it seems like more people are making the switch to Netbeans now. I read something that stated there were 5 million total downloads of Netbeans since it's inception. 1 million of those were for versions 4.0 and 4.1. That's a pretty big leap starting with those versions.

Re:Am I the only one on here who likes Netbeans? (1)

Tim C (15259) | more than 9 years ago | (#12595162)

Well, the last time I tried it it looked awful and performed poorly. Add to that the learning curve of any new app and I really couldn't be bothered.

I may give it another go after my current project ends - I'm using Eclipse at the moment and certain aspects are driving me nuts.

Re:Am I the only one on here who likes Netbeans? (1)

promantek (866291) | more than 9 years ago | (#12595183)

I like using Netbeans much more than Eclipse as well.

Eclipse has this philosophy of "it can do anything since it's just a framework" philosophy, and somehow they pulled off a general, plug-in based application that works really well.

Eclipse doesn't actually exist as a Java IDE itself, the plug-ins make it a Java IDE, and it works. It has some cool features that Netbeans doesn't like compiling as you code, SWT, and a lot more you could name.

The bottom line is that Netbeans does one thing, does it well, and keeps it simple. Eclipse is great for a lot of people, but for me I like the Netbeans approach.

downloading 4.1 now....go netbeans!

Re:Am I the only one on here who likes Netbeans? (2, Informative)

njcoder (657816) | more than 9 years ago | (#12595850)

Just a note... Netbeans shares the same principle in being a framework and the IDE is built out of plugins. Except in Netbeans speak it's platform and modules indead of framework and plug-ins. The difference is that Netbeans gives you a lot more stuff built into the IDE that Eclipse doesn't.

So if you like Netbeans more than Eclipse you should be happy to know that Netbeans is also a platform and you can get plugins for it. This is a neat tutorial on building an application using the Netbeans Platform [netbeans.org]

If you're working on projects of less than 50 files you can get the RefactorIT plugin for netbeans for free that will add a ton of refactoring support. There's also JRefactory which is open source but I haven't used it.

Re:Am I the only one on here who likes Netbeans? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12595377)

I still use NB 3.6, I just can't grow to like the new "everything is a project" NB 4.x mantra. I manage a lot of non-Java stuff in NB so that switch barred me from upgrading. That said, I've patched and recompiled NB 3,6 for 1.5.0, so performance is pretty good. There are still the occasional focus problems but it's rare enough not to bother me at all. I wish there was a NB 3.6 branch out there that continued the looser IDE concept of NB of old.

Re:Am I the only one on here who likes Netbeans? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12595469)

There's this module that allows you to mount filesystems in the new nb just like you did in the old nb. Would that work for you?

Re:Am I the only one on here who likes Netbeans? (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12595467)

So where is the love?



There is a die-hard group of Sun-haters and Java-haters here. Certain fans of C, C++ or Python see Java as a threat to their pet language, whatever that may be. Anything that is bad for Java (such as fragmenting the standard platform ala SWT) is ok in their books. The Sun-haters are GNU holdovers, reactionaries who despise Sun because, to the UNIX world, they were the EVIL EMPIRE at one time. Don't waste your breath waiting on such people to recognize the merits of Netbeans.



There is also a group of "followers" who don't like Netbeans or Swing because of the whisper campaign, not because they have actually used either. The notion that interfacing Java code to C results in greater speed than pure Java code has been debunked, but it is an idea that continues to pop up. I would suggest that open-minded people should go ahead and give Netbeans a try. I wouldn't mind seeing NB used, as Eclipse has been, as a platform for editors for other languages and VMs.



Oh, and NB actually has a pretty good standard UI builder, unlike Eclipse, which is still experimenting with a half-dozen or so alternative ones in beta. So for speedy professional development, Netbeans is the way to go.

Re:Am I the only one on here who likes Netbeans? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12595492)

This is quite an interesting imaginary world that you've weaved in your mind.

Re:Am I the only one on here who likes Netbeans? (1)

Nataku564 (668188) | more than 9 years ago | (#12595775)

I just didn't like netbeans because it brought my system to a crawl whenever I used it. It was a few years ago, so I am sure it has improved - but I am an eclipse guy now. They had their chance.

Re:Am I the only one on here who likes Netbeans? (1)

LnxAddct (679316) | more than 9 years ago | (#12595600)

For Web Application devlepment and J2ME development, you absultely can't beat NetBeans. It is also becoming my favorite IDE for general java app development as well, but I mean it really excels in those two previously noted areas. The new visual editor for J2ME is pretty neat IMHO and even the NetBeans profiler is great. NB 4.1 brings a whole new level of integration and ease of use not previously seen in any IDE. Its worth noting that the memory usage and speed has gotten a thousand fold better in this release too.
Regards,
Steve

it doesn't matter (1)

cahiha (873942) | more than 9 years ago | (#12595827)

NetBeans may be a decent IDE, but is it substantially better than Eclipse? Does it have any specific, compelling advantages? If not, then what's the reason to use it or waste time on its development?

Eclipse not only is fully open source, it's what everybody is developing plug-ins for. And, unlike NetBeans, Eclipse actually runs on open source implementations of Java, which means that it ships with Linux distributions.

Why does Sun keep wasting resources on NetBeans? Don't they have anything better to do?

My problems with NetBeans (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12595083)

I used to use 3.6 a while ago and found it quite decent. It was reasonably responsive, didn't require a "project" and, among other things, had proper intellisense like feature.

Then I used 4.0 when I went back to do some Java work and it was lacking all this! It was slow as frigging molasses on a 2GHz machine. I couldn't believe my eyes.

Anyhow I've since switched to Oracle JDeveloper and not looked back.

This time, I supprised myself. (1, Interesting)

bogaboga (793279) | more than 9 years ago | (#12595092)

This time, I supprised myself. I seems I've been under some rock for sometime. Why? Because I really never knew that NetBeans a serious contender in the Java IDE field! My be this is because I'm no Java person.

For those in the know, how does NetBeans compare to ther Java IDEs especially on Linux?

Re:This time, I supprised myself. (1)

brsmith4 (567390) | more than 9 years ago | (#12595356)

If you aren't a java person, why do you care? Also, the answer to your question can be found by simply reading the comments posted to this thread. Sheesh...

Re:This time, I supprised myself. (1)

simetra (155655) | more than 9 years ago | (#12595667)

It's good, and free, and as far as I can tell, is identical to it's Windows version, which makes going back and forth pretty easy. There's also a What's New with 4.1 demonstration at www.javalobby.org

Re:This time, I supprised myself. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12595841)

I agree, the Linux team at NetBeans deserve some credit. They've got it working as well as the Windows version and the two are very consistent. We've really seen great advances in Java compilers targetting Linux in the last year. The compiled code is now very similar to that produced by the Windows compiler. It's just a shame that the Netbeans guys have to maintain multiple source trees. If only there was a language that you could write once and run anywhere...

J2EE support is nice (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12595132)

The one area where Eclipse lacks is J2EE support. Fortunately there's a web tools project in the works which I think will be in final release this summer. Hopefully it'll be similar to what's already available in IBM's Rational Application Developer (based off eclipse).

Why another reinvention of the wheel? (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12595136)

C, C++, Python, Perl have the most libraries available, so why do we need java and another reinvention of a framework. wxWidgets provides much more to real developers to get the work done. I suppose the newish frameworks are okay to play with to blow off the slow days at the office.

Re:Why another reinvention of the wheel? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12595188)

Managed code.

If you don't realize that this is the next programming revolution, you need to do some reading before you make comments like that.

Re:Why another reinvention of the wheel? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12595202)

You heard your lecturer say that phrase in the lecture today, didn't you, dipshit?

Re:Why another reinvention of the wheel? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12595289)

Truth revealed you have.

Plugins (2, Funny)

toofast (20646) | more than 9 years ago | (#12595141)

I search Google for netbeans php plugin: 37,000 results. eclipse php plugin: 1.4M results.

Enough said.

Re:Plugins (1)

bryan986 (833912) | more than 9 years ago | (#12595149)

Are you drunk? NetBeans is for Java, you dont use plugins with it.

Re:Plugins (1)

toofast (20646) | more than 9 years ago | (#12595168)

That's precisely why it hasn't Eclipsed Eclipse.

Re:Plugins (4, Insightful)

thammoud (193905) | more than 9 years ago | (#12595172)

and I just did a search:

Eclipse Sucks 155,000
Netbeans Sucks 11,300

Conclusion: More people think that Eclipse sucks more than NetBean. ;)

Re:Plugins (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12595212)

Oh yeah [googlefight.com]

Re:Plugins (3, Funny)

njcoder (657816) | more than 9 years ago | (#12595243)

Well if you wanted to keep with what he said.. you would have done this [googlefight.com]

See, sometimes it's not good to win.

Re:Plugins (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12595292)

Meh [googlefight.com] ;)

Re:Plugins (3, Funny)

Doc Ruby (173196) | more than 9 years ago | (#12595350)

And there is more homosexuality than heterosexuality on the Net [googlefight.com] .

Re:Plugins (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12595595)

Hehe, this got +1 insightful. I think You People are ALL nuts.
*starts up vi*

Re:Plugins (1)

Spodlink05 (850651) | more than 9 years ago | (#12595182)

I search Google for netbeans php plugin: 37,000 results. eclipse php plugin: 1.4M results.

Enough said.


Not really. That proves there are more results for Eclipse than NetBeans from Google. That doesn't mean Eclipse is better, or that the results are even relevant. Half of them are probably about astronomy and coffee.

Re:Plugins (1)

promantek (866291) | more than 9 years ago | (#12595306)

your website has two entries that are quite telling about your post:
  • PHP? Yeah, I like it.
  • Senior Linux Administrator @ eclipse.org
so you like PHP, you do some work for Eclipse, and you like PHP with Eclipse better than netbeans with eclipse?

i've never done PHP with either and i'm not trolling just interested in how you based your opinion.

Re:Plugins (1)

toofast (20646) | more than 9 years ago | (#12595408)

To be honest with you, I never even tried NetBeans. I don't think NetBeans has "plugins" like Eclipse does, so I doubt you can do anything other than Java on it.

And yes, I work for the Eclipse Foundation, so I'm obviously biased. But all my PHP and Java coding is done on Eclipse. I was an Eclipse user long before I started working for Eclipse, so I wasn't brainwashed by my boss =)

It's Eclipse's versatility that makes me like it enough to not search for or try alternatives.

Re:Plugins (1)

promantek (866291) | more than 9 years ago | (#12595497)

netbeans is definitely a much more focused application than eclipse. i've been using it for years, but i couldn't tell you if it supported plug-ins. i don't think it does. never looked.

like you said, eclipse is so versatile and it doesn't sound like netbeans would work for you anyway. i hope i didn't imply your opinion was invalid because of bias.

cheers!

Re:Plugins (1)

njcoder (657816) | more than 9 years ago | (#12595521)

" To be honest with you, I never even tried NetBeans. I don't think NetBeans has "plugins" like Eclipse does, so I doubt you can do anything other than Java on it.

And yes, I work for the Eclipse Foundation, so I'm obviously biased. But all my PHP and Java coding is done on Eclipse. I was an Eclipse user long before I started working for Eclipse, so I wasn't brainwashed by my boss =)

It's Eclipse's versatility that makes me like it enough to not search for or try alternatives."

Holy Crap! You work for Eclipse but you've never tried Netbeans. You don't even know that Netbeans is a tools platform like Eclipse is and Netbeans has been a tools platform for a lot longer. There are companies like Nokia still building on the Netbeans platform. The difference is, in the IDE, you get a whole lot more that you don't have to pay for. Even though you get a lot with the netbeans ide, there are still third party modules (plug-ins) developed for Netbeans. All the functionality built into netbeans the ide are built as modules.

I just find it really odd that you don't know anything about a product that is a competitor, in fact the only open source tools platform competitor... yet you come here and say why the competition sucks?

I don't know how you can even take yourself seriously.

Re:Plugins (1)

toofast (20646) | more than 9 years ago | (#12595647)

I just find it really odd that you don't know anything about a product that is a competitor, in fact the only open source tools platform competitor... yet you come here and say why the competition sucks?

I didn't say the competition sucked, and that's not what I was implying either. I said that Eclipse suits *my* needs to a degree where I don't need to look elsewhere.

The work I do for the Eclipse Foundation is running the servers and hacking a bit of PHP code once in a while. I don't actually work *on* Eclipse itself, so I have no need to try competing products. It would be nice if I had the time to do so, as it would add to my culture, but I don't really have the time (or the interest).

You don't even know that Netbeans is a tools platform like Eclipse is and Netbeans has been a tools platform for a lot longer.

Sorry, my ignorance. I used Eclipse (well, IBM's WSAD) for J2EE development before actually being hired by the Foundation, but I had never even heard of NetBeans before working for the Foundation.

I don't know how you can even take yourself seriously.

I'm not quite sure what prompted you to even say this.

Re:Plugins (2, Insightful)

Dan-DAFC (545776) | more than 9 years ago | (#12595400)

I'm sure if you try you can come up with better criteria for evaluating Netbeans (a Java development platform) than its level of support for PHP.

Re:Plugins (1)

toofast (20646) | more than 9 years ago | (#12595430)

Not me. Without reading TFA, this last part of the Slashdot post got to me:

IDE Wars: Has NetBeans 4.1 Eclipsed Eclipse?

I can use Eclipse as an IDE for PHP, Java and C (and pehaps even others). I don't think NetBeans can match or surpass this functionality, so to me, Eclipse is a far superior IDE.

Re:Plugins (1)

Dan-DAFC (545776) | more than 9 years ago | (#12595536)

Fair enough, but I don't think the Netbeans people are even trying to compete with Eclipse on support for other languages (I may be wrong), so I think it's fairer to judge the two on their Java features.

Annecdotal blog evidence (which is only slightly more reliable than pulling numbers out of my rear end) suggests that there is a recent trend of Java developers switching from Eclipse to Netbeans (since the 4.0 version was released).

As I've mentioned elsewhere, I don't think either can compete with IDEA in terms of the combination of functionality and usability, but they certainly beat it on price.

Re:Plugins (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12595552)

Does Eclipse even have any advanced PHP-specific functionality? How can Eclipse match or surpass a lightweight text editor with PHP syntax hightlighting?

Re:Plugins (1)

toofast (20646) | more than 9 years ago | (#12595690)

Here is the free plugin I use:

http://phpeclipse.de/ [phpeclipse.de]

Fewer blatant adverts, please.. (2, Insightful)

gmjohnston (254601) | more than 9 years ago | (#12595144)

C'mon, guys. An announcement of something is one thing, but this "article" is just a bunch of marketeering that would be more appropriate as an item under the "Advertisement" column.

Eclipse (4, Informative)

HRbnjR (12398) | more than 9 years ago | (#12595167)

You can see what's coming in the next version of Eclipse here:
http://www.eclipse.org/org/councils/PC/platform/ec lipse_project_plan_3_1_2005_02_14.html [eclipse.org]

The Web Tools Project is adding Eclipse support for HTML, CSS, JavaScript, XML, XSD, XSLT, SVG, SOAP, WSDL, UDDI, SQL, XQuery, etc:
http://www.eclipse.org/webtools/index.html [eclipse.org]

And keep in mind that Eclipse can currently run on an entirely Free Software platform using GCJ (with prebuilt RPM's included in Fedora Core 4!):
http://klomp.org/mark/gij_eclipse/setup.html [klomp.org]

Re:Eclipse (1)

SSalvatore (666913) | more than 9 years ago | (#12595217)

How about webapp debugging?. Using the old Forte (I dunno how they call it now), which was NetBeans based, I could step through my servlet code. I cannot do that in Eclipse, partly because it has no servlet engine in it.

Re:Eclipse (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12595248)

Java has an over the wire debugging protocol... I often use Eclipse to connect to the Tomcat running on my workstation or on our testing server.

Re:Eclipse (2, Informative)

njcoder (657816) | more than 9 years ago | (#12595427)

I tried this in eclipse. I was never very happy with it. It wasn't very smooth from what I remember. Especially within the JSP's. If I remember correctly it stepped through the generaged java code for the JSP not the actual JSP. With Netbeans I can step throw everything including taglibs. You can attach to remote servers as well.

At the time I don't even think MyEclipse was much better at debugging. NitroX seems great but it costs 300 bucks.

Not trying to start an IDE war but I'm generally curious because I was never satisfied with the results... How are you doing your debugging in Eclipse and can you step through JSP's and taglibs?

Re:Eclipse (2, Informative)

arthurs_sidekick (41708) | more than 9 years ago | (#12595373)

Not that I don't also like Eclipse, but I want to note that Netbeans has had excellent XML/HTML/JSP/CSS editing capabilities since at least 3.5. Current incarnations are really good with, e.g. JSPs: Netbeans 4.x does tag completion on custom tags, INCLUDING the URIs you need to reference in the taglib directives and the attributes of your custom tags. Netbeans added an 'auto-import' feature in 4.x that closes the gap with Eclipse somewhat (don't know what package name a class lives in? Alt-Shift-I will bring up a list of candidates, much as with Eclipse's 'quick fix' Ctrl-1) Netbeans 4 generates an ant build script that will load all your external libraries and 'war' them up for you (Eclipse does not do this out of the box, and I'm not sure why nobody's needed to scratch that itch yet). This means you're not tied into the IDE to build your web app. Netbeans 4.x already has, in non-beta form, support for the new language features from JDK 1.5. Truth be told, for developing any moderately complex web application, right now an out of the box Netbeans 4.1 is, IMO and on balance better than Eclipse with MyEclipse (which you pay $30 a year for). Eclipse's task list and background compilation are, for me, its two best features right now. To be honest, the fact that the functionality I use all the time is available for Eclipse via plugins whose quality is not always topnotch bugs me a little bit. The WTP will close the gap on the Servlet/JSP side, but Netbeans 4 has a *lot* going for it.

"Great IDEs".. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12595193)

I would like Eclipse and Netbeans to include support for stuff other than java.. Like Perl, PHP, SQL, XHTML, CSS... yeah, there are some plugins out there, but, to be honest, they're all crap. :-(

Yeah, there's Komodo as well, but, that crap doesn't warrant its "3.1" version with its annoying bugs. Been using that since 1.2 on linux and the most annoying bugs are still there. The lastest one to plague me constantly is the arrow/home/insert/page-up/etc keys getting locked up in one document.. So, you're typing and then, backspace to correct a mistake.. You go "wtf" it modifies another document, but a-z/0-9 stays on the document you're currently editing.

I know it won't even show up in the comments, will stay buried in other threads, but, wtf.. I had to say it. :-(

Re:"Great IDEs".. (1)

njcoder (657816) | more than 9 years ago | (#12595325)

Netbeans does support HTML, XHTML and CSS editing text editing. I wouldn't use it as the main tool for those but if you're building a web application that needs those types of files you can edit everything in the same IDE.

Things like Perl and PHP may not be too far away for netbeans either. They have the Coyote [java.net] project which brings in support for Jython and Groovy.

It's nice to have everything in one space but sometimes it just makes sense to have different applications for specific purposes.

Eclipse very slow after loosing focus for a while? (1)

TheShadowHawk (789754) | more than 9 years ago | (#12595198)

While I previously used Netbeans (3.6) and liked it, I have since moved to Eclipse (3.0.1) and love it. The large amount of plugins and comstomization of Eclipse just makes it the winner in my book.

However if I alt-tab away from my Eclipse window for a while then come back to it to do more coding, it seems to be reloading itself and acts very slow for a minute or two. It drives me crazy.

Any idea what the heck is causing that? Is there some memory cache setting that needs tweaking or what?

Re:Eclipse very slow after loosing focus for a whi (2, Informative)

john_anderson_ii (786633) | more than 9 years ago | (#12595216)

I use eclipse on Linux and Windows. I don't have the lost focus for a while problem on Linux, but it happens all the time on windows. I think it's because some or all of the JVM has been swapped to disk, but I haven't really looked into it.

Re:Eclipse very slow after loosing focus for a whi (2, Interesting)

Dan-DAFC (545776) | more than 9 years ago | (#12595491)

Apparently the latest Eclipse milestone is much improved in this regard (so I'm told, I don't use it myself).

My problem with Netbeans is that the built-in editor is severely lacking in functionality when compared to both Eclispe and IntelliJ IDEA. I really want to like Netbeans, because I found it much easier to jump in and get started with it than Eclipse and it's much cheaper (i.e. free) than IDEA. But I gave up on it because it doesn't have things like IDEA's intentions (I believe there is something similar in Eclipse), automatic generation of getters, setters and constructors from fields, that thing where you press control and click on a class name in the source to go to that file, and several other niceties. Its refactoring support is also lacking when compared to that of its rivals.

To be fair most, if not all, of the issues I've mentioned are planned for future releases according to their website, but it's not there yet .

Re:Eclipse very slow after loosing focus for a whi (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12595415)

Eclipse 3.1M7 solves this problem in windows.

I'd recommend getting it as it has many performance boosts. It's fast as hell, seriously.

Re:Eclipse very slow after loosing focus for a whi (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12595489)

I also like that on M7 you can enable a heap size gauge. It has a button that invokes the garbage collector on demand.

Re:Eclipse very slow after loosing focus for a whi (1)

njcoder (657816) | more than 9 years ago | (#12595557)

like netbeans has had for years :) Right click on the toolbar and click on the Memory toolbar :)

Re:Eclipse very slow after loosing focus for a whi (1)

kubrick (27291) | more than 9 years ago | (#12595689)

However if I alt-tab away from my Eclipse window for a while then come back to it to do more coding, it seems to be reloading itself and acts very slow for a minute or two. It drives me crazy.

Apparently Windows is very aggressive about forcing all memory allocated by minimized windows out into VM. There's an attempt at a fix [eclipse.org] for this in the latest milestone (3.1M7)...

Has NetBeans 4.1 Eclipsed Eclipse? (0)

VStrider (787148) | more than 9 years ago | (#12595204)

Unlikely. While Netbeans is a java IDE, Eclipse can also be used many things not java; eg. as a C/C++ IDE [eclipse.org]

Re:Has NetBeans 4.1 Eclipsed Eclipse? (2, Informative)

arthurs_sidekick (41708) | more than 9 years ago | (#12595398)

Netbeans also has C/C++ modules. I don't know how the projects compare, but it's been there in Netbeans for quite a while.

how's the netbeans compiler? (4, Interesting)

snorklewacker (836663) | more than 9 years ago | (#12595207)

When I write Java in Eclipse that isn't a web app (believe it or not that exists), it's like there's no compiler at all. I save, things get compiled. This confused the heck out of me at first (it's apparently on by default), but I came to love it. Also, if I make a typo or braino, eclipse instantly shows it to me without having to wait for a compile cycle. Does NetBeans have this feature, or do I have to explicitly invoke the compiler all the time?

Re:how's the netbeans compiler? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12595335)

Yes, Netbeans does this... it's had this feature for a while.

Re:how's the netbeans compiler? (3, Informative)

jsight (8987) | more than 9 years ago | (#12595550)

Netbeans does an approximation of this that catches some compilation issues, but not others. The nice thing is that it's more lazy approach can make it feel a little faster at times, though.

Also, the first Java IDEs to really do what you are talking about were Codeguide from Omnicore [omnicore.com] . Other IDEs have since eclipsed them on features, but their current product is still quite good!

Starbucks or Farbucks...? (0)

creimer (824291) | more than 9 years ago | (#12595213)

So where's the Starbuck Editor? Or is that the Farbuck Editor? Hmmm... I like a grandee chocolate mocha with whip cream to go with me editor. :)

MyEclipse (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12595225)

NetBeans might be getting close to the J2EE functionality included with Eclipse out of the box, but Eclipse suplemented with MyEclipse [myeclipseide.com] blows it away.

At $30 a year it's an absolute steal. Eclipse has an incredible number of plugins available for it, but trying to keep all of the versioning conflicts straight between plug-ins will drive you crazy. MyEclipse handles all of these versioning conflicts for you and provides periodic drops with tons of new features.

I'm not trying to shill, I just really like it. If I spend 30 minutes a year screwing around with incompatible plugins it's already paid for itself. Besides, NetBeans just looks ugly :-)

Re:MyEclipse (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12595732)

" NetBeans might be getting close to the J2EE functionality included with Eclipse out of the box, but Eclipse suplemented with MyEclipse blows it away."

Are you on crack? First of all.. Eclipse without MyEclipse doesn't even have a JSP editor. Netbeans blows Eclipse out of the water in terms of J2EE support. I wasn't too thrilled with MyEclipse when I used it either.

App/EJB Container (1)

centinall (868713) | more than 9 years ago | (#12595242)

So what App/EJB Container does this new version of Netbeans come bundled with? Is it open source? Perhaps JBoss or Apache Geronimo(although i don't think it's complete yet)?

Eclipse isn't an IDE (0, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12595286)

Eclipse is no longer an IDE, it's an entire application platform. The IDE is just an application that's built on the Eclipse platform. The Rich Client Platform technology let's you write a application in the eclipse plugin style that takes advantage of features that have already been created for eclipse, such as the update mechanism, help system, etc... Netbeans will never be able to offer all that. It's nothing but a mere Java IDE.

Re:Eclipse isn't an IDE (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12595769)

" Eclipse is no longer an IDE, it's an entire application platform. The IDE is just an application that's built on the Eclipse platform. The Rich Client Platform technology let's you write a application in the eclipse plugin style that takes advantage of features that have already been created for eclipse, such as the update mechanism, help system, etc... Netbeans will never be able to offer all that. It's nothing but a mere Java IDE."

Why do people that don't know what they're talking about continue to post? Netbeans has been around longer than Eclipse. When Netbeans and Eclipse started... they both were tools platforms that had IDE's built on top of them. You could build and add extensions to both the IDE's and you could even build your own application using either platform as a foundation. So not only DOES Netbeans do what you say it doesn't, it's been doing it longer than Eclipse.

Good grief! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12595299)

Do you think the web designer at Java Boutique could have managed to fit LESS content per page? I think this review has just about the lowest stuff-to-cruft ratio I've ever seen.

Java Boutique (1)

JasontheMason (654429) | more than 9 years ago | (#12595417)

I must say, it is very pleasurable to finally read an article on such a well designed web site. I congratulate them on their superior column width and small ad space.

Netbeans and Eclipse (5, Informative)

Earlybird (56426) | more than 9 years ago | (#12595433)

As with any competing products, there is a certain amount of contention between adherents of Netbeans and Eclipse users alike; much vitriol has been spilled recently, mostly by aggressive Sun employees and Netbeans developers who seem overly defensive about their favourite product's worth -- they have seen Eclipse steamroll and, ahem, eclipse their own IDE effort and gather all the momentum and attention that the Netbeans project never could.

It's too easy to blame IBM and its financial support. Clearly, there is a huge demand for an extensible, vendor-neutral IDE platform, a demand Eclipse immediately satisfied. There is also a huge demand for native widgets that Sun seems to have ignored or overlooked; the world is thirsting for good, cross-platform GUI toolkits, and for many people and companies, Swing has never been a real option. Sun has never seen the beam in their own eye that is Swing. Java GUI apps have never really taken off because of the real and perceived weaknesses of Swing, but with SWT and Eclipse we're seeing renewed interest in Java as a language for "real" GUI apps.

I'm in the SWT camp myself. I prefer to deal with native widgets in the IDE -- and Eclipse performs and looks very well on Windows (with non-Windows platform support catching up) -- and as an end user, Swing apps have always peeved me; for example, when I got an LCD monitor, no Swing apps could exploit ClearType, which all Windows apps -- Eclipse included -- do automatically by virtue of using a single font renderer. When you emulate something that is constantly evolving, you will always get an imperfect emulation; not to mention that satisfactory emulation of a whole OS -- because GUIs is more than just look and feel -- is nigh impossible; note, for example, how Windows XP themes don't work on Swing apps.

I also love the fact that I can develop native applications with Eclipse's RCP (Rich Client Platform) framework, and I can do it with ease unparallelled since the days of Borland Delphi.

Netbeans probably has an edge when it comes to J2EE support at the moment. Developing framework-specific tools -- J2EE, XML, etc. -- has always been secondary to delivering Eclipse proper. Eclipse has many rapidly-evolving subprojects covering plugins for J2EE, web standards, aspect-oriented programming, graphical modeling, performance/quality testing and so on.

While not all ready for production, the quality of these tools is often amazing; as significantly, a lot of thought is always put into making tools extensible and based on reusable frameworks. For example, the graphical modeling plugin is based on a generic graph-editing framework (the GEF) which can be reused in your own applications. Eclipse itself I find to be a momentous and beautiful engineering effort, based on solid, pragmatic OO design.

No mention of IntelliJ? (4, Informative)

radish (98371) | more than 9 years ago | (#12595522)


Why only compare NetBeans to Eclipse? IntelliJ IDEA has for a long time been the most innovative Java IDE (IMHO) and it's the only one I use. Many of the features I see in Eclipse now were in IDEA first. Whilst I have no problem with Eclipse, I like to (a) get those cool features first and (b) support the guys at JetBrains who continually come up with the goods.

Re:No mention of IntelliJ? (4, Interesting)

Dan-DAFC (545776) | more than 9 years ago | (#12595713)

I too am a fan of IntelliJ, but it's not always easy to convince the boss to stump up for a licence when the other Java guys are happy with Eclipse.

IntelliJ is kind of like Opera to Eclipse's FireFox. It's the commercial innovator with the smaller market share competing against a free alternative that is backed by big players in the IT arena. There's an interesting parallel in the way these applications have been developed. In both cases the open source projects have gone for a flexible platform enhanced by a huge array of plugins whereas the commercial players have opted for a more integrated approach with everything you need bundled and presented nicely out-of-the-box.

Hmmm. (3, Funny)

Kent Recal (714863) | more than 9 years ago | (#12595757)

Netbeans.. eclipse... netbeans... eclipse....

can't decide. i think i'll stick with vim.

conclusion screw-up (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12595782)


from the conclusion...

All arrows point towards go on this new revision of NetBeans. Increased performance, cool new features,..... Unless you are one of those faithful-to-the-end patriots, any Eclipse user--or IntelliJ IDEA user, for that matter--should waste no time in evaluating this new version.

"should waste no time in evaluating..." ?????
that does not sound right!
he must have meant it the other way around! or something!

Sun silliness (1, Insightful)

cahiha (873942) | more than 9 years ago | (#12595786)

Sun has megabytes of unfixed bugs, but instead of focusing there, they are trying to compete with a highly successful, well-written free tool. This push for NetBeans ultimately comes from Sun's pathological desire to own and control everything: Sun absolutely hates the fact that Eclipse doesn't require their proprietary toolkit and that Eclipse can compile with open Java tools. Sun wants a desktop based on Sun Java, a server-side platform based on Sun Java, an office suite based on Sun Java, and an IDE based on Sun Java. It's really the same thing Microsoft is doing, only that resource constraints and public opinion constrain them a little more (e.g., they can't start a new GUI project from scratch, they just have to hack Sun Java into Gnome).

Eclipse is the only sensible choice for a Java IDE at this point: NetBeans may be a little better in some areas, and Eclipse in others, but those differences are minor. The deciding factor is that Eclipse has become the de-facto standard platform for plug-ins.

Re:Sun silliness (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12595807)

FYI...Netbeans was there before.
Eclipse came later to compete with NB, and it wipped its ass.

now NB is coming back with a vengance...
and let me tell you, it is looking gooooood!

Re:Sun silliness (1)

cahiha (873942) | more than 9 years ago | (#12595896)

It doesn't matter who came first. Eclipse is the free, vendor independent system, and it has by far the larger user community. Unlike Netbeans, Eclipse also runs on entirely free platforms, which is one of the reasons it can ship with Linux.

Netbeans may be "coming back with a vengeance", but it is still just an IDE, and Eclipse is still the IDE that plugins are written for.

Sun's competition with Eclipse is wasteful of their own resources and confusing to the market. And it's pointless: no matter how good a job Sun does on Netbeans, they have nothing lined up that is compelling enough to overcome the huge advantage that Eclipse has.

Re:Sun silliness (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12595874)

This push for Eclipse ultimately comes from IBM's pathological desire to own and control everything: IBM absolutely hates the fact that NetBeans doesn't require their proprietary gui toolkit and that NetBeans can compile with standard Java tools.

What is it? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12595868)

I hate when websites never tell me what a product is; the hours of a business; the address of a building; etc. Get the BASICS in the frontline, not the release news.
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