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Trans-Atlantic ID Card System

Zonk posted more than 8 years ago | from the hands-across-the-globe dept.

Security 428

Th3P0stalDud3 writes "The Independent is reporting that the U.S. has asked the U.K. to use the same chips in their proposed identity cards as the ones in our proposed identity card. In effect, creating a trans-atlantic ID card system." From the article: "The aim of getting the same microchip is to ensure compatability in screening terrorist suspects. But it will also mean that information contained in the British cards can be accessed across the Atlantic."

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428 comments

Best laugh I've had all day... (5, Funny)

TripMaster Monkey (862126) | more than 8 years ago | (#12655098)


From TFA:

US diplomatic sources stated later that Washington did not wish to interfere in the domestic affairs of other countries.


You're kidding, right? Interfering is what we do .

^_^

Re:Best laugh I've had all day... (3, Insightful)

Heian-794 (834234) | more than 8 years ago | (#12655155)

The US isn't "interfering"; rather, two Orwellian governments are joining forces for a common objective.

They seem to want to have a single world ID standard, which would be fine if there was one world state in which all human beings could travel freely. Unfortunately, it looks like people's citizenship will be restricted to one place, whereas all the governments of the world can get in cahoots to oppress people no matter where they go.

Re:Best laugh I've had all day... (1)

cayenne8 (626475) | more than 8 years ago | (#12655377)

How are they going to get the info out of the cards....after people start microwaving them to fry out the RFID's?

:-)

Re:Best laugh I've had all day... (2)

zmower (20335) | more than 8 years ago | (#12655196)

Indeed. I'm hoping this interference will influence MPs to kick the bill out altogether. After all the real reason we're getting them in the first place is because the US requires them for entry. And now we're required to buy them from a US supplier? It's the last straw (oh, a pun; not intended).

Hey... (4, Insightful)

NoMoreNicksLeft (516230) | more than 8 years ago | (#12655103)

Wouldn't it be shorter to just say "Oceania ID Card" ?

Re:Hey... (0)

Steve Cox (207680) | more than 8 years ago | (#12655174)

Maybe, but it would be highly inaccurate since Oceania [infoplease.com] is the continent that Australia is part of.

Steve.

Re:Hey... (2, Informative)

sirket (60694) | more than 8 years ago | (#12655268)

Oceania was one of the superpowers in George Orwell's 1984. The post in no way refers to Australia.

-sirket

Re:Hey... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#12655288)

I think this [wikipedia.org] was the Oceania the OP was refering to.

Re:Hey... (4, Interesting)

gowen (141411) | more than 8 years ago | (#12655204)

Nonsense, that would suggest that Oceania's Ministry Of Truth was capable of adjusting history and presenting barefaced lies as fact, simply to fit their military ambitions.

Inconceivable! [downingstreetmemo.com]

(The only similarity is, when Shrub writes 2+2=5, he doesn't realise that's wrong, either).

Re:Hey... (1)

DickBreath (207180) | more than 8 years ago | (#12655325)

that would suggest that Oceania's Ministry Of Truth was capable of adjusting history and presenting barefaced lies as fact

It was the Ministry of Love that was responsible for the torture of the citizens who did not follow the party line...

Interrogator: Winston, what is two plus two?

Winston: four.

Interrogator: And what if Dubya says it is five?

Re:Hey... (1)

sirket (60694) | more than 8 years ago | (#12655293)

Damn! Damn, damn, damn, damn, damn! This is exactly what I was going to post! :)

-sirket

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Ter'ists are everywhere! (5, Insightful)

grub (11606) | more than 8 years ago | (#12655107)


FTA: Mr Chertoff said yesterday that it was vital to seek compatibility, holding up the example of the "video war" of 25 years ago, when VHS and Betamax were in fierce competition to win the status of industry standard for video recording systems.

If video compatibility is such a big issue why do they keep 2 main video standards (PAL/NTSC) and continue to put region encoding on DVDs? That lame "video war" comparison is just to appease the public into accepting a "New World Order" style of international identification. Once the US and Great Britain are locked in, it will be harder for other countries to resist if they want unencumbered travel for their citizens.

Re:Ter'ists are everywhere! (3, Interesting)

Anubis350 (772791) | more than 8 years ago | (#12655149)

it will be harder for other countries to resist if they want unencumbered travel for their citizens.

this raises interesting questions about those counties that are members of the british commonwealth. Would this mean that in order for those countries to maintain the ease of movement they have now with other members of the commonwealth they would have to submit to U.S. rules on the IDs?

Re:Ter'ists are everywhere! (1)

gowen (141411) | more than 8 years ago | (#12655271)

this raises interesting questions about those counties that are members of the british commonwealth
There are already plenty of barriers to movement between members of the British Commonwealth. As a Brit, there are incredibly stringent criteria if I wanted to emigrate to Australia; similarly if I were an Indian or Pakistani wanting to move to Canada. Likewise, Commonwealth citizens from outside the UK don't get all the travel/work/visa perks within Europe that the UK's membership of the EU gives Brits.

Re:Ter'ists are everywhere! (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#12655207)

If they did use the same chips/cards (to lower costs), cant they just use different encrypttion shcemes (probably just a small increase in costs if not the same) ?

Re:Ter'ists are everywhere! (1)

Shaper_pmp (825142) | more than 8 years ago | (#12655309)

Presumably they could indeed use different encryption schemes. That would, however, quite emphatically miss the point of the whole exercise, which is to ease the creation of a UK-US composite database, wherein anyone unfortunate enough to own an ID card can be tracked from their door in the UK/US to their holiday in the US/UK and back again, seamlessly and invisibly, by whatever warrant-less USian government agency (because let's face it, the UK government won't get shit out of this) decides it wants to know.

"Why? Oh, no reason... Move along, nothing to see here. By the way, your library books are overdue. What? Nothing. Honest."

Re:Ter'ists are everywhere! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#12655289)

Region coding is pure greed by the movie makers, to try to restrict content. The PAL/NTSC (you forgot SECAM) thing is a little more complicated than you realize. NTSC is an inferior television format. I live in America, so I'm not just bashing America. Everyone in the video world agrees that NTSC sucks. One of the jokes is that it means "Never Twice the Same Color". PAL was invented later and is a superior system. SECAM is a variant of PAL that the French developed that supposedly has better color. Anyway, the frame rates of PAL and NTSC were based somewhat on electrical cycle differences between the countries, with NTSC countries tending to use 110 volt 60 cycle power and PAL countries tending to use 220 volt 50 cycle power. Note that the frame rates are half of the cycles. That is not a coincidence. PAL does have one drawback - film material (24 frames per second) has to have an extra frame added to get it to 25 frames per second, which causes PAL films to speed up and sound pitched higher than normal if care isn't taken to correct for this. Film translates into NTSC frame rates with no discernable difference through a process that I really don't understand very well, I just know it works. Many DVD players can convert between PAL and NTSC on DVDs, making the differences less of an issue than in the 1980's when VCRs that could play both NTSC and PAL and SECAM video tapes were extremely expensive.

Re:Ter'ists are everywhere! (1)

Itchy Rich (818896) | more than 8 years ago | (#12655327)

...when VHS and Betamax were in fierce competition to win the status of industry standard for video recording systems...

I'm not a free-market obsessive, and I know the analogy isn't perfect, but if competition between companies is a good thing for consumers, then surely it's also a good thing for citizens to have a bit of competition between governments to keep them from stagnating.

Of course "good thing for citizens" often isn't a politician's main priority

Yup, they're behind every Bush! (1)

FreeUser (11483) | more than 8 years ago | (#12655369)

If video compatibility is such a big issue why do they keep 2 main video standards (PAL/NTSC) and continue to put region encoding on DVDs?

Yeah, it's a crappy analogy, but critical thinking isn't a extremist's strength at all (and right wing extremists are driving this agenda).

Frankly, I don't know why any country would want to facilitate sharing their citizen's private information with the United States. Unlike Europe, we have no regulation regarding the trading and selling of private information. British citizens can expect to see their data in the hands of US Telemarketing, Junk Mail, and SPAM brokers within days of this nonsense being implimented.

hmm... (1)

Anubis350 (772791) | more than 8 years ago | (#12655110)

looks like the gov't doesnt want us to know:

404 File Not Found
The requested URL (it/05/05/27/145234.shtml?tid=172&tid=219) was not found.

If you feel like it, mail the url, and where ya came from to pater@slashdot.org.

I hope I see some anti Bush comments (4, Insightful)

HMA2000 (728266) | more than 8 years ago | (#12655114)

That would be awesome. I think it is important that we post unsubstantiated conspiracy theories about how this is just one more step in an inevitable march towards some dytopian future.

Re:I hope I see some anti Bush comments (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#12655159)

Is that the kind of future when the letter s is banned from certain words?

Re:I hope I see some anti Bush comments (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#12655200)

I know you are trolling, right? But you do also know that all of the 9/11 terrorists had up-to-date, perfectly-valid ID. Right? Since I am obviously against you, this must be an anti-Bush statement. I love it how you Sith think in absolutes.

Re:I hope I see some anti Bush comments (3, Interesting)

ashmedai (869288) | more than 8 years ago | (#12655401)

I love how you're pointing troll fingers to cover up your own troll against a post with a perfectly valid point. I hope you're just joking.

The United States has historically been involved in a number of atrocities that it doesn't much like to bee remembered for; like any large state it has its share of skeletons that it doesn't like to see make the history texts.

Personally I think they make for interesting reading. When studied instead of buried they further emphasise the fact that freedom is maintained only through ongoing vigilance AGAINST OURSELVES AS WELL and not just external forces. Accusing one's own country of wrongdoing is never a good way to become popular, but it is absolutely necessary that this occur as often as the slightest suspicion arises and that we never rely on unquestioning acceptance of any leadership.

It's fun to titter and giggle about conspiracy theories and the number of the beast and so forth. But the fact is that a more invasive identification system is highly useful to a police state and tends by its very existance to invite violations of basic human rights, and that it is usually of very little use in protecting anyone.

Won't be necessary (0, Flamebait)

CdBee (742846) | more than 8 years ago | (#12655252)

We could just comment on some of the documented facts of what the US has done - who needs conspiracy theories these days?.

Re:I hope I see some anti Bush comments (3, Insightful)

Mac Degger (576336) | more than 8 years ago | (#12655360)

As a european, I can say this knowing exactly why this is a bad thing. Before 1940, we had no ID cards. After 1945, we tore up the ID cards across the continent. That should really tell you something.
Invoke Godwin if you must, but Godwin never contemplated that at one point the comparison was actually warrented.

And if you think it's just a reaction towards oppressors...we still have laws based on the Napoleonic code, we all have surnames and streetnames...so if something is good and makes sense, it gets used. If something is bad, we scrap it.

Wow (5, Funny)

gowen (141411) | more than 8 years ago | (#12655120)

But it will also mean that information contained in the British cards can be accessed across the Atlantic.
Crikey. The range of RFID card-readers has gone up since I last looked into them...

Why not? (-1, Troll)

BoomerSooner (308737) | more than 8 years ago | (#12655122)

They are already our whipping boy. It's sad how the UK has gone from world power to weak sister in less than a few hundred years. At least their politicians have some balls and can answer questions that aren't from planted "journalists" cough*gannon*cough. Bush is such a dumbfuck.

Re:Why not? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#12655232)

Wow, now wasn't THAT insightful?

Re:Why not? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#12655291)

Its always amazing to me that the biggest assholes on Slashdot are the ones with the +1 Karma bonuses.

Re:Why not? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#12655240)

Bush is dumb? Why? Because he is President of the most powerful nation on Earth and he has brought democracy to two nations (Afghanistan and Iraq) that were formerly caught in the grip of despots?

What have you done with YOUR life(other than whining on democraticunderground.com?)

Re:Why not? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#12655316)

he has brought democracy to two nations (Afghanistan and Iraq)

Uh no. Puppet regimes, elections with staged candidates and US-controlled police no democracy creates. Try asking the Iraqi and Afghani people what they think about the US.

(Read: Stop watching Fox News)

Re:Why not? (1)

ehack (115197) | more than 8 years ago | (#12655354)

I'd be quite happy if the UK turned into the 51st state. Certainly a better fate than being half in and half out of europe, and at least getting some benefit from our participation in the Bush wars.

I find it strange that our soldiers can get killed in Irak, but our detainees in Guantanamo get no lawyers whike US detainees do - hmmm. If we're in, why don't we get treated the same ?

Re:Why not? (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#12655368)

>and he has brought democracy to two nations

yeah. you just keep repeating the lie.

bush has brought nothing but death and destruction (and massive profit for his mates) to afghanistan and iraq. the "democracy" you are seeing is a sham.

i suppose you even think the world is a safer place now too? try telling that to the hundreds of people that are getting bits blown off them EVERY SINGLE DAY in those countries. try telling that to the 100,000 civillians killed (dont beleive the numbers? well the scientific methodology was good enough for Kosovo and we ALL beleive that didnt we?), nearly 2000 U.S soldiers killed and the ???,000 U.S soldiers rendered deaf and/or blind and/or limbless and/or permanently brain damanged

wake up. turn off FOX news and go and see the fucking mess the U.S has caused.

but the oil's flowing from Mosul to Haifa (get an atlas) so mission accomplished, eh?

Re:Why not? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#12655385)

HA HA!!! He has brought democracy to two nations (Afghanistan and Iraq)??? You mean he has brought puppet governments to these nations so that the USA now controls them from behind-the-scenes? If you don't believe that's what happened, you're either gullible, eveil, or just plain stupid. I mean, wouldn't you do the same if you were done tearing up the populous with your bombs and it was a great way to collect "thank$" afterward? The greatest feat the devil pulled off was convincing everyone he voted democrat.

Re:Why not? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#12655279)

At least their politicians have some balls and can answer questions that aren't from planted "journalists" cough*gannon*cough.

'Fraid not. Our PM doesn't do interviews with journalists, nothing tougher than daytime chat shows at any rate.

Oceana must keep track of all its Citizens (0, Redundant)

HighOrbit (631451) | more than 8 years ago | (#12655126)

I will be the first to say in our leader's Newspeak - doubleplusgood.

Cost... (4, Insightful)

Manip (656104) | more than 8 years ago | (#12655132)

Our government (UK) just spend x millions in creating this ID card scheme which is says we need... Now they are going to try and sell the public the concept of dumping all that R&D and use the USA standard... When that same government uses the cost so far as a reason why we can't just drop the entire project... Does anyone see a big hole in their logic?

1984 was a good book, just not a great estimate, I think 2010 is a more realistic estimate...

Re:Cost... (1)

MoonBuggy (611105) | more than 8 years ago | (#12655259)

I'm yet to see them give a remotely plausible reason as to why we need to spend £100 each on the cards anyway. The closest I've heard is:
"It'll stop terrorists"
"The 9/11 hijackers had valid ID"
"Errr.."

Even the 'illegal immigrants' angle seems flawed - they are, by nature, here illegaly. What's to stop them stealing/faking IDs? And it's just forcing more hoops to jump through for those who want to come here legally.

Elimination of the middle class (3, Informative)

panxerox (575545) | more than 8 years ago | (#12655135)

The federal id system as proposed is a continuation of the process by which the government has been seeking to destroy the underground economy and stratify society to an even greater degree. The id system combined with the coming cashless society, educational divide, locking in of resources from the elimination of the inheritance tax can only end in a resumption of the feudal system or something very much like it. When our economy crashes (who thinks the current walmart economy can really last?) the elimination of the middle class will be complete. At this point the plan put in place by the patrician class will have come to fruition and their power will be unchallenged.

Re:Elimination of the middle class (1)

goldspider (445116) | more than 8 years ago | (#12655330)

Thank goodness that, by then, our economic system will be almost entirely socialistic.

When you have only a rich "greedy" class and a poor "victim" class, it makes the confiscation and redistribution of wealth much easier.

Re:Elimination of the middle class (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#12655348)

Ah the patrician class heard from. Power to the Plebs !

Re:Unchallenged power (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#12655370)

Except from the barrel of a gun.

(lest you forget the lessons of the French Revolution...)

Of course, they could cement that power and supress dissent by legalizing all drugs.....

I particularly like this bit (4, Insightful)

jimicus (737525) | more than 8 years ago | (#12655136)

FTFA: US diplomatic sources stated later that Washington did not wish to interfere in the domestic affairs of other countries.

At the risk of being modded flamebait, when has that ever stopped the US before?

Re:I particularly like this bit (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#12655313)

Hahahaha!

"The risk of being modded flamebait"...on Slashdot! Oh, that's funny.

Why stop? (1)

Kinky Bass Junk (880011) | more than 8 years ago | (#12655143)

With that attitude, you could have a world ID card in no time! One step closer to a globalised government system. Yip-dee-doo

One thing's for sure... (2, Insightful)

TripMaster Monkey (862126) | more than 8 years ago | (#12655153)


If the Britons don't knuckle under, it's clear that they HATE OUR FREEDOM.

^_^

Re:One thing's for sure... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#12655266)

mod parent funny :)
Sad as it is, im sure there are some inbred rednecks out there who will reach the same conclusion

Re:One thing's for sure... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#12655275)

Oh - you forgot: And clearly not patriots.

Good morning (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#12655169)

citizins of airstrip one, please note that due to the war effort in Eastasia chocolate rations have been reduced.

Because this is technology we want! (1)

Hungus (585181) | more than 8 years ago | (#12655173)

from TFAThere were also verification problems with 30 per cent of those whose fingerprint was taken during an enrolment trial of 10,000 volunteers.

30%! sheesh

Cue the Hand Wringing Masses!! (3, Insightful)

TheConfusedOne (442158) | more than 8 years ago | (#12655175)

OMFG! An international standard for electronically readable ID cards? Big Brother is going to be the death of us all. Darn that Bush and his Consitution stomping cronies...

So, how many of you travellers appreciate using your Visa/MC/AmEx and ATM cards when you're in another country?

Re:Cue the Hand Wringing Masses!! (5, Insightful)

acceleriter (231439) | more than 8 years ago | (#12655237)

How many of you travellers were forced to carry your Visa/MC/AmEx and ATM cards by your government?

Have you tried travelling without a CC? (1)

TheConfusedOne (442158) | more than 8 years ago | (#12655371)

Check into a hotel, rent a car, do almost anything overseas without a Credit Card. It's awfully darn difficult without carrying a suitcase full of cash and getting screwed with each currency conversion.

Of course the data collected by all of this can be accessed by your, and other, governments and it's much more pervasive than the US and the UK trying to agree on a standard chip in their passports.

I'm must amazed that it suddenly becomes evil because they add this extra bit to an already government mandated identification card.

Re:Cue the Hand Wringing Masses!! (1)

taskforce (866056) | more than 8 years ago | (#12655303)

Yeah, I'm just glad it doesn't contain any personal information and that the two things are totally different.

Re:Cue the Hand Wringing Masses!! (1)

Mac Degger (576336) | more than 8 years ago | (#12655395)

That might be a remotely valid argument if everyone was forced to use American Express. Oh, but even then your argument wouldn't make as much sense as you seem to think.

Stop with the privacy violating bandaids! (5, Insightful)

garcia (6573) | more than 8 years ago | (#12655187)

Mr Chertoff said yesterday that it was vital to seek compatibility, holding up the example of the "video war" of 25 years ago, when VHS and Betamax were in fierce competition to win the status of industry standard for video recording systems.

"I certainly hope we have the same chip... It would be very bad if we all invested huge amounts of money in biometric systems and they didn't work with each other.Hopefully, we are not going to do VHS and Betamax with our chips. I was one of the ones who bought Betamax, and that's now in the garbage," he said.


VHS and Betamax weren't intended to compromise our personal privacy. I just don't see how he would dare to compare these two completely unrelated things. Was it to try and make this sound more benign than it is?

Mr Chertoff also proposed that British citizens wishing to visit the US should consider entering a "Trusted Traveller" scheme.

I propose we stop assuming *everyone* is guilty because of what ~15 other people did. Oh wait, *everyone* hates freedom so we have to do this or we're UnAmerican, sorry, I forgot. Send me for reeducation please... I didn't learn it right the first time.

Mr Chertoff said compatability and the checking system was intended purely to track down "terrorists and criminals" and the main aim was to provide a "fair and reasonable system".

Yet it hinders and inconveniences everyone including citizens of the United States who are having their privacy violated.

"When we screen based on names, we're screening on the most primitive and least technological basis of identification - it's the most susceptible to misspelling, or people changing their identity, or fraud," he said.

I'm 100% certain that whatever method the US Government puts in place will be full of holes large enough to drive a truck through. It's not going to solve any of the problems that we have had in the past.

Re:Stop with the privacy violating bandaids! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#12655403)

And why should we trust some loser who bought Betamax?

where is our democracy and freedom? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#12655218)

The vast majority of US citizens is opposed to the use of RFID in official documents. What the hell are our "representatives" doing? I thought we'd live in a democracy here?

Civil Disobedience Geek Style (4, Funny)

Dasein (6110) | more than 8 years ago | (#12655221)

I suggest a little civil disobedience. Whenever asked for our ID we should repeat the phrase "Leeloo Dallas, multi-pass." in response to any further questions.

Re:Civil Disobedience Geek Style (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#12655298)


Mooki-pass!

A Good Thing (0)

mitchell_pgh (536538) | more than 8 years ago | (#12655224)

Anyone that says anything negative about this request/input from the US Gov. is kidding themselves.

You can dislike GWB all you want, but this is the US gov. trying to work with the GB gov.

Why WOULDN'T they work together on such a project.

Already Canada, Mexico, Next CAFTA, UK, All FTAs (2, Informative)

Doug Dante (22218) | more than 8 years ago | (#12655226)

The US is already working with Canada and Mexico to unify [seclists.org] drivers licenses and other identifications [seclists.org].

With CAFTA [wikipedia.org] and FTAs between US and Australia [ustr.gov], and other Free Trade agreements in effect or in progress, including Andean FTA, Australia FTA, Bahrain FTA, Chile FTA, Israel FTA, Jordan FTA, Morocco FTA, Panama FTA, Singapore FTA, and SACU FTA, you can bet that we'll see more of the same with our major trading partners.

If you accept the initial premise... (2, Insightful)

schmelter_tim (457984) | more than 8 years ago | (#12655229)

...that chips in ID documents are a good idea, then why not allow data sharing between friendly governments?

The bigger question, in my mind, is "Are RFID chips in ID documents a good idea?" My feeling is, "Probably not."

The REAL question is (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#12655353)

Is the USA a friendly Country ?
I certainly don't want my data stored in the USA, where privacy laws are nonexistant....

Re:If you accept the initial premise... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#12655396)

Can you tell me what possible right a foreign government has to this information?

Personally, I don't subscribe to the usual slashdot scare mongering about our civil liberties and blah blah blah, but this ID card scheme is a joke. It doesn't fight against a single thing the government says it does, that plus the fact that this government has not brought in any single piece of technology through 3 terms without it being a complete and utter mess.

I don't think our own government should have information to where all its' citizens are, how many just bought something in a shop, how many own a Honda Civic and so on. So why on earth would a foreign government have any right OR need for this information?

IN SOVIET RUSSIA (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#12655231)

Your papers please....

I have a better idea... (5, Insightful)

keyrat rafa (856668) | more than 8 years ago | (#12655235)

Why don't we just affix small "I'm a terrorist" decals on the existing IDs of terrorists; that way, we'll always know who's who! By now anyone who is a known terrorist will not be using his real ID to go anywhere. Furthermore, no amount of biometric IDing is going to point out a terrorist. This is just something to better catalogue ordinary citizens with the guise of added security.

Re:I have a better idea... (1)

Humafari (784656) | more than 8 years ago | (#12655357)

Now come on.. we brits have always known how to identify the bad guys.. why do you think all the bad guys wear black clothes in the James Bond Films??

Re:I have a better idea... (2, Insightful)

It doesn't come easy (695416) | more than 8 years ago | (#12655384)

And, to top it off, most suicide terrorists do not have a history of terrorism of any kind (if you think about it, it makes sense...the terrorist mastermind is not interested in suicide and so they recruit others for this part of the plan). Having an ID that identifies you says nothing about your intentions. The only way this can have any impact on stopping terrorism is to create a history on the person and correlate this history with terrorist related data. So, a national ID card mandates a database on your activities if it is to be effective. One step closer to Big Brother.

They don't care about the chip (1)

John Harrison (223649) | more than 8 years ago | (#12655236)

They care about whether the chip is complaint to the ICAO standard, not what particular chip is used. There are lots of chips out there, they just have to respond correctly to the same APDUs. This article contains simplifications that are so dumbed down as to be wrong.

You scratch my back... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#12655267)

Oh, yes, very useful. Sharing the data with the US, outside the jurisdiction of all those pesky European Data Protection and privacy laws.

Just as US three letter acronym agencies aren't allowed to routinely eavesdrop on US communications without a warrant, so GCHQ [gchq.gov.uk] over here does it for them.

Welcome to Blair's Britain, blueprint by Eric [online-literature.com], implementation by Tony.

Relax, people (1)

Waffle Iron (339739) | more than 8 years ago | (#12655272)

The aim of getting the same microchip is to ensure compatability in screening terrorist suspects.

To implement this screening, they only need to give the chips to the terrorist suspects. Since 99.999% of the public are not terrorist suspects, very few people will ever need to deal with these IDs at all.

Right?

Thanks George! (1)

0123456 (636235) | more than 8 years ago | (#12655277)

I for one am glad to see this story come out while Bliar is trying to push internal passports on us. Labour MPs really, really hate seeing Bliar bend over for some right-wing Yank with the IQ of a cucumber, so this is a strong incentive for them to vote against their leader on this law... which would almost certainly mean it would fail.

False embodiment... (1)

Skiron (735617) | more than 8 years ago | (#12655280)

Bloody politicians haven't a clue - ID cards will not change anything.

1) Not everybody* has hands (for fingerprints) or eyes (for retina scans) or whatever else goes into this. What happens to these people?

2) When it gets forged (it will), then there will be no doubt (no questions) on producing the forged ID - a failsafe forgery. At least if a password is cracked, you can start again and change it. You can't exactly change your DNA over night...

The only reason they are pushing the ID card shit is for BIG BROTHER control of the generic population[s]. Terrorists etc. etc. etc. will be laughing and totally unaffected (like robbers need a gun licence to hold up a bank).

* The average person has less than two legs.

loophole for cheap labor illegal aliens? (0, Flamebait)

Cryofan (194126) | more than 8 years ago | (#12655284)

Now, don't worry my neoliberal (oops! I mean "libertarian"....) "free traitor" friends--I am sure they will have a built-in loophole for cheap-labor illegal aliens (oops! I mean "undocumented workers....). After all, we wouldn't want our investor overlords to get less profit than they would otherwise have if the labor supply were not flooded with cheap labor, thus bringing down wages....

NWO? (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#12655299)

So, is this the New World Order that Bush Sr kept on going on about?

Here we go again... (1)

AnonymousJackass (849899) | more than 8 years ago | (#12655310)

Cue the same old tired remarks about 1984 and lack of privacy, etc, etc. Come on people, it's really not that bad! I'm sure our respective governments keep tabs on those of us they need to right now, and I'm sure they share information with each other on those people who're deemed "risky". The ID card system would make things no different, except it might make life easier for people who travel back and forth between the US and UK a lot. The bottom line is, was, and always will be, this: if you're not doing anything wrong, you don't have anything to worry about!
Everyone seems to think that they're so important that their government would watch every move they make! I have news for you: you're not that important unless you're a murderer/terrorist/filesharer! (the last one is still OK if you're French, apparently...)

/rant

Re:Here we go again... (1)

geomon (78680) | more than 8 years ago | (#12655350)

The bottom line is, was, and always will be, this: if you're not doing anything wrong, you don't have anything to worry about!

Unless you are a political dissident.

Oooops! Forgot about that one, didn't you?

I'm going to assume that you aren't a US citizen, but it has been our political heritage that the government only gets the powers the citizenry grant to it, not the other way around.

Re:Here we go again... (2, Insightful)

0123456 (636235) | more than 8 years ago | (#12655391)

It's people like you who make the destruction of freedom so easy. I seem to remember the commies had a name for them: 'useful idiots'.

Obviously... (1)

JustNiz (692889) | more than 8 years ago | (#12655326)

The UK has always been the US's only real ally and backdoor into Europe.

Forcing it on the UK first would be a good first step to making the US ID system the global standard.

Is this a commercial decision? (1)

alistair (31390) | more than 8 years ago | (#12655336)

One thing I wondered was, is this influenced by commercial considerations? In the US big players include Sun Microsystems with the JAVA Card and RSA Security. Each of these systems are backed with US technologies and both have got closer to Microsoft recently (Bill Gates gave this year's keynote at the RSA Conference, SUN and Microsoft have recently made a number of announcement re. making their Directories and technology work closer together). I can't see the US picking a non US vendor for such a political project.

I'm not privy to the UK discussions, but they may well be considering using a Siemens solution backed with a Siemens X500 infrastructure (to name one European vendor).

I would have thought that multi format card readers could be developed relatively cheaply, but a US company winning this contract would gain 60 Million UK "users" and a real headstart on the 300+ Million European market (as France, Germany etc. would then be under pressure to be compatible with the UK).

The UK's ID card scheme (5, Interesting)

Catullus (30857) | more than 8 years ago | (#12655339)

This is yet another scary development in the long-running UK ID card saga. If any non-UK residents are interested, the current state of play is that legislation will probably soon be passed to force all UK residents to get biometric ID cards by 2008(ish).

These cards will cost us all up to £93 ($150+) each, with profits from the scheme going to private companies. Everyone's personal details will be stored in one huge database, which can be accessed by a variety of government agencies. A recent trial of the biometric technology used in the cards showed that it was quite ineffective. The Government is nevertheless convincing the electorate that this is a good idea by playing on the fear of identity theft (which the cards won't help prevent) and fear of illegal immigrants.

There's a good (as ever) article about ID cards at The Register [theregister.co.uk].

here we go again (2, Insightful)

chegosaurus (98703) | more than 8 years ago | (#12655342)

I'm against ID cards (or, more specifically, the database behind them) for many reasons, none of which are particularly terrifying on their own.

The issue for me is that the government can't think of anything better to do with several billion pounds. At least using existing technology might lower the budget a bit.

I don't really believe Big Brother is coming. I don't believe we will really have any less privacy or freedom when forced to carry "papers". I also don't believe they will fix any of the problems our society currently has.

I'm very angry that such a massive public expenditure will benefit no one other than whoever wins the contract to implement it. Oh, and the ego of the poiliticians who are gearing up to bully it through the house.

Speaking of which, why *ARE* they so keen to force this on us? Conspiracy theorists, please go nuts.

Not happening (1)

warmcat (3545) | more than 8 years ago | (#12655343)

With the reduced majority for Labour from the recent election, UK ID Cards are less likely to be introduced, despite the hormones they inject Home Secretaries with to turn them into rabid ultra-Right skirtniffing beast-creatures.

good bye passport and drivers license (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#12655344)

In case this government will actually go ahead and push for RFID chips in passports or drivers licenses against the democratic will of the majority of US citizens me and my family will oppose this move and not renew our passports and drivers licenses. We don't have a car or travel anyways so we could care less but we will defend democracy and the last bit of freedom our country was built on regardless of how much of a bigot this president is and how corrupt our "representatives" are.

Logical in Principle, Problematic in Practice (1)

Prospero's Grue (876407) | more than 8 years ago | (#12655358)

It makes so much sense on paper; we have an ID system, you have an ID system - why don't we just make them compatible?

The problem is the two systems are administred by two completely different bodies - namely the separate governments. What rules are placed on the UK system for privacy or due process reasons can be violated at will by the US agents, who are not bound by those laws -- and the same is true in reverse.

What recourse does a US citizen have when they have handed over (or have been compelled to hand over) their information to a US government agency, under certain rules, and then the UK does whatever they want with it? Will rules about privacy and proper use of the information even apply to non-citizens? Can the UK then share that information with the rest of the EU? Interpol? What about the ICC which the UK recognises and the US doesn't?

The cooperation of intelligence agencies when working cases on specific people of interest is one thing, but this ID system compatibility only makes sense if we're talking about large and frequent exchanges of information. The practicalities get out of control pretty fast.

All that being said, I'm not too concerned about this becoming reality. Intelligence agencies haven't proven to be the best sharers.

misread the quote, oops (1)

nbritton (823086) | more than 8 years ago | (#12655363)

"The aim of getting the same microchip is to ensure a new world order. But it will also mean that information contained in the British cards can be accessed across the Atlantic."

From a Worried UK Citizen (1)

henrywood (879946) | more than 8 years ago | (#12655378)

Considering the current state of Human Rights abuses by the US (detention without trial, or without even being told the charges against the individual, condoning - even encouragement - of torture by foreign powers, murder of prisoners in Afghanistan, etc.) I find this a very worrying possibility. All the more worrying because our Government will just roll over and accept it.

The US is doing it all wrong! (1)

Woogiemonger (628172) | more than 8 years ago | (#12655387)

Mr Chertoff also proposed that British citizens wishing to visit the US should consider entering a "Trusted Traveller" scheme.

The Brits aren't going to go for this unless we think like the capitalists we are. Perhaps if we offered them a free weekend in the US after they racked up enough Trusted Traveler Miles, that'd pique their curiosity.

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