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Debian Sarge Coming Soon

CmdrTaco posted more than 9 years ago | from the believe-it-when-you-see-it dept.

Debian 284

daria42 writes "The long awaited 3.1 release of the Debian GNU/Linux distribution - codenamed Sarge - is due out next week on the 6th of June, according to the project's release team. Around 50 release-critical bugs remain to be fixed. One more update to Debian 3.0 will also be released prior to that date. And it's about time - the last formal release was back in July 2002. Debian 3.0 will probably be supported with security patches for another 12 months."

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Starting the book now... (4, Funny)

gowen (141411) | more than 9 years ago | (#12683081)

Who wants to enter our sweepstake for when Debian 3.2 will be released? Pick a date, and if you're the nearest, you'll win ... well, nothing.

I take July 4th, 2007.

Re:Starting the book now... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12683119)

I think that Debian is using a release schedule which is unique in the sense that the limit of the version number as the age of the universe tends to infinity is a constant.

Re:Starting the book now... (5, Interesting)

gowen (141411) | more than 9 years ago | (#12683132)

TeX really does have a release schedule like that. The last major release was v3. That was followed by release 3.1, then 3.14, then 3.141.

The most recent version is 3.14159, as the release numbers are slowly asymptoting toward pi.

Re:Starting the book now... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12683233)

Well, then, will it be well rounded? C=pi*D :P

Re:Starting the book now... (4, Funny)

skyshock21 (764958) | more than 9 years ago | (#12683309)

Did you just turn "Asymptote" into a verb?!?!?

Re:Starting the book now... (1, Troll)

ThJ (641955) | more than 9 years ago | (#12683361)

Sarge coming? Will it come with Duke Nukem Forever? And will it support the Phantom console?

Re:Starting the book now... (2, Funny)

natrius (642724) | more than 9 years ago | (#12683461)

I think the word you're looking for is "verbify".

Re:Starting the book now... (1)

gowen (141411) | more than 9 years ago | (#12683462)

Yeah, I verbed asymptote. (Actually, it's really not an uncommon bit of jargon in the maths community. "Tends to..." is so formal.)

Re:Starting the book now... (3, Informative)

KiloByte (825081) | more than 9 years ago | (#12683136)

No, Sarge should have been 4.0, but fixing that now would require too much last-minute effort. Bumping up the version number was simply forgotten, according to the relevant thread [debian.org] .

Re:Starting the book now... (2, Informative)

Lord of Ironhand (456015) | more than 9 years ago | (#12683482)

I've followed the thread on the mailinglist as it progressed, and don't think it's right to say it "should have been" 4.0 . Opinions differ on the matter, and many sources already use 3.1 (including a book, the "Debian 3.1 bible", about to be printed). Also, this page [debian.org] , which has been there for ages and is the first google hit for "debian sarge", lists 3.1 as the most likely release number.

The debate seems a bit similar to the discussion whether the new kernel should be 2.6 or 3.0 . Personally, bumping major version numbers too regularly reminds me of commercial software that has to go from 1.0 to 10.0 in a few years just to keep customers upgrading (and buying). Sarge has some important changes over Woody, but I don't think they're big enough to warrant going to 4.0; maybe Etch (the successor to Sarge) might, with the introduction of SELinux, X.org, etc. .

Re:Starting the book now... (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12683598)

Oh slashdot, news from an old script...

Debian Sarge to be released...um...soon
Microsoft will fail because...
Apple made something cute
Google, they're great

Haven't seen much of "Bert in Space" for a while though.

Re:Starting the book now... (1)

tonsofpcs (687961) | more than 9 years ago | (#12683670)

I pick June 8th, 2005 after two all-nighters of fixing unforseen bugs. Hey, a version change is a version change.

DNF? (3, Funny)

Ibag (101144) | more than 9 years ago | (#12683084)

Does this mean thaat Duke Nukem Forever is coming out soon too? Or just that hell has frozen over?

NO MORE OF THIS CRAP! (-1, Troll)

grimdonkey (757857) | more than 9 years ago | (#12683169)

I run debian for some time now and I love it. Because of this I got to the point where I *do not* want to see debian stories posted on slashdot anymore. I got tired of sifting through millions of lame-ass jokes and posts and re-posts with explanations of the release cycle and philosophy, just to find one or two insightful or interesting comments.

Re:NO MORE OF THIS CRAP! (0, Flamebait)

rokzy (687636) | more than 9 years ago | (#12683261)

unselect debian in your preferences and stfu then.

Pigs flying in a frozen hell (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12683405)

That's what I understood from reading the headline. And that's what most threads are about...

Re:DNF? (1)

wlan0 (871397) | more than 9 years ago | (#12683337)

Also, this must mean Billy is opensourcing all of Windows, right, right?

And the point is? (2, Interesting)

coolsva (786215) | more than 9 years ago | (#12683086)

Not to troll, but what is the main advantage of sarge vis-a-vis other distributions based on the debian unstable/testing tree (like knoppix/ubunto and a dozen other main ones)

Re:And the point is? (3, Insightful)

jhdevos (56359) | more than 9 years ago | (#12683114)

More supported arch's? Security support for the entire distribution, not just a subset?

Jan

Re:And the point is? (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12683244)

1) It guarantees a clean upgrade path for people still running 3.0.

One of the nice things about Debian is you don't need to reinstall. Most of the problems you experience upgrading testing/unstable every day have been ironed out for anyone attempting the mammoth 3.0->3.1 upgrade.

2) It will continue to do this.

Third party distros come and go. Progeny? Corel? Ubuntu is developing at lightning pace right now, but as it diverges from Debian and acquires legacy maintenance baggage of its own development will slow. Sometimes users are abandoned. I believe this happens frequently to RedHat users.

3) It's really really stable and it's really really big.

Other distros shotgun packages as well as architectures. They're also not necessarily as anal about bugs.

4) It's a concrete base and point of reference for third party distros.

Debian Testing has basically been a slow moving Debian Stable (without Security support) for the whole last year. With the release out the way Testing will become more unstable again for a while and third party distros will likely base their efforts on stable again for a while. It's important for Debian's future that this is made possible.

Re:And the point is? (1)

trandism (835011) | more than 9 years ago | (#12683247)

To install it on a f* server.

I mean chill out from this Ubuntu trend.

Re:And the point is? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12683635)

Why excoriate Ubuntu? Surely the fact that a Debian-derived distribution is reaching out to desktop users everywhere is a good thing?


Debian's a fine distribution, and the Debian community (for all its fratricidal bickering) should be commended for all of its hard work. But get over yourselves already. Last time I checked, there were an awful lot more workstations out there than servers.



Re:And the point is? (1)

Short Circuit (52384) | more than 9 years ago | (#12683320)

Well-tested compatibility with the largest DEB repository around.

I'd be afraid to add the Debian repository to my sources list if I ran a different Debian-based distro. I'd be afraid of version incompatibilies. For example, they recently fractured xlib into its component libraries.

If something like that happened in one repository, but not the other, I could have a problem on my hands.

good stuff... (4, Interesting)

professorhojo (686761) | more than 9 years ago | (#12683087)

Releasing Sarge will be hugely cathartic for Debian, it will get a monkey off of their back so they can move forward on the reduced platform list.

People need to remember that Debian is not trying to be Fedora or Gentoo. There are already numerous distros providing the bleeding edge with various degrees of config assistance/packaging options etc. Debian is offering the "must work" (as opposed to "just work" which seems less mission-critical) alternative, and its useful for someone to perform the heavy testing and fixing they do.

I am satisfied that the Debian crowd is making moves to keep itself relevant with a new team leader, a new set of targets, and a release in the bag. Having been burned in the past by the "maybe it works" distros in the past, I will be seriously considering their future offerings.

On a slightly related tangent: just who do those Ubuntu guys think they are? They are releasing a Distro that claims to be Debian compatible, and yet their packages are not 3.5 years old. What's worse, they seem to be a popular distro. If this doesn't stop, we might have to cooperate with someone else in the Debian space! We might end up like (gasp!) Fedora, and have to deal with multiple repositories in a Bazaar-like fashion instead of doing things in the Cathedral-like fashion that we are accustomed to. Where will it all end?

Re:good stuff... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12683162)

Releasing Sarge will be hugely cathartic for Debian

You do realize that by using that word you imply the Debian maintainers will shit themselves.

Re:good stuff... (1)

tao (10867) | more than 9 years ago | (#12683304)

cathartic: of, relating to, or producing catharsis. catharsis: a purification or purgation that brings about spiritual renewal or release from tension.

Re:good stuff... (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12683184)

First off, I couldn't agree more with what you said. Even though I don't use debian at the moment it's good to know that a truely free, community driven and truely stable distro is always around.

Just on question though, has the reduced platform list been officially adopted? I was under the impression that it was still discussed, but I might be wrong here.

Re:good stuff... (1)

johansalk (818687) | more than 9 years ago | (#12683612)

From what I heard, debian is suitable for servers, due to its conservatism and insistence on stability, whereas ubuntu is focused on desktops, for which bleeding edge is OK.

This has taken much too long. (-1, Flamebait)

jpaz (512242) | more than 9 years ago | (#12683088)

Three years between point releases, 3.0 -> 3.1, is just much too long to wait. I understand wanting a rock solid distribution, but I think this is stretching things just a bit.

Re:This has taken much too long. (3, Informative)

KiloByte (825081) | more than 9 years ago | (#12683193)

Three years between point releases, 3.0 -> 3.1, is just much too long to wait.

There were 5 point releases since Woody.
The step between Woody and Sarge is similar to those between Win95 and Win98 -- and just like products of the Evil Empire, the gap is three years.

Having a release every a couple of months is good for a desktop-only release with all the newest bells and whistles -- but for a server, I expect something that can be installed and largely forgotten.

Re:This has taken much too long. (4, Insightful)

Sinus0idal (546109) | more than 9 years ago | (#12683195)

Yes those are the STABLE releases, and it takes that long to ensure that they are STABLE. When Sarge is released most of its packages will already be out of date, but STABLE. If you want to use debian on the desktop, do a minimal stable install, change your apt.sources to unstable, and do a dist-upgrade and install the packages you want. You'll end up with your ubuntu/knoppix'y type desktop system with up to date releases.

I wish people would stop moaning about stable! It isn't a desktop distro! It is for those that want to do an 'apt-get install apache' and KNOW it won't fail. That means a lot to admins.

Re:This has taken much too long. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12683240)

Then i can just use knoppix/ubuntu from the beginning... (and don't need to start with Debian)

Re:This has taken much too long. (1)

Sinus0idal (546109) | more than 9 years ago | (#12683260)

Yep thats fine, but lets not forget that Ubuntu/Knoppix need to start with Debian..

Re:This has taken much too long. (0, Offtopic)

0x000000 (841725) | more than 9 years ago | (#12683699)

cd /usr/ports/www/apache[13|2]
make install

Never fails. FreeBSD is still stable as well.

Re:This has taken much too long. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12683217)

Then don't wait... You act as if you don't have other choices. Sheesh..

Re:This has taken much too long. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12683395)

> Three years between point releases, 3.0 -> 3.1

don't worry, Debian 3.11 for Workgroups will be out soon after sarge :P

What they don't tell you... (5, Funny)

Darren Winsper (136155) | more than 9 years ago | (#12683089)

...is that the original release date was around 33 B.C.

oh great debian! (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12683090)

hey, if everyone pays it no attention, it will cease to exsist, like magic.

Wow ! (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12683091)

I can see herds of pigs flying over a completely frozen hell!

Re:Wow ! (1)

Random BedHead Ed (602081) | more than 9 years ago | (#12683454)

Look - Satan's down there playing Duke Nukem Forever!

Child Distro Effect? (2, Interesting)

Blahbooboo3 (874492) | more than 9 years ago | (#12683092)

Could someone tell me how long until this trickles into the debian based distros?

Thanks!

Re:Child Distro Effect? (1)

coolsva (786215) | more than 9 years ago | (#12683105)

Not sure if it does matter. Most of the distros are based off the testing and unstable trees. The main reason for the Debian standard release is compatiability with many architectures while other distros focus on x86 (I believe)

Re:Child Distro Effect? (1)

Blahbooboo3 (874492) | more than 9 years ago | (#12683135)

Thanks for the reply. Just installed Kubuntu to check it out, and I am very pleased at their effort to simplify the distro for a fresh install. I never understood why so many distros feel the need to include multiple programs for the same functionality -- it just makes it more confusing for a new user IMHO.

Too late.. welcome Ubuntu... (2, Insightful)

guyfromindia (812078) | more than 9 years ago | (#12683097)

which runs on my desktop, at the moment.. after being 4 yrs with Debian..

Re:Too late.. welcome Ubuntu... (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12683197)

On your desktop... but not on servers

Re:Too late.. welcome Ubuntu... (2, Insightful)

Kjella (173770) | more than 9 years ago | (#12683235)

Well, if you were running stable on your desktop, you do not understand its purpose. Even if this release is reasonably current *now*, it'd still be a mistake to put it on your desktop.

Brief mapping debian <-> reality:

Stable - Server
Testing - Desktop
Unstable - Testing

I've been running debian testing now for a long time. The only open service on my box is openssh, and I can pay attention to any security fixes for that one myself. For a desktop, that is really the only concern. Application vunerabilities and local privilidge escalation will be fixed within a few days, which is just fine.

Kjella

Re:Too late.. welcome Ubuntu... (1)

orangepeel (114557) | more than 9 years ago | (#12683613)

So can you tell me how Debian Testing differs from Debian Unstable in terms of security updates?

What a dumb thing to say (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12683246)

In case you didn't notice, Ubuntu is based on Debian, without Debian, no Ubuntu.

Further, a lot of the Ubuntu devs are also Debian devs.

Still further, Ubuntu and Debian are working together. (Yes, they really are, despite what some people interested in starting a flamefest try to say)

Seriously, I'm also running Ubuntu and one of its main attractions is, that it is based on debian. So how anyone who runs Ubuntu can think that trashing Debian is a good idea is simply beyond me.

Follow the RC-bug count! (5, Informative)

jhdevos (56359) | more than 9 years ago | (#12683099)

here: http://bts.turmzimmer.net/details.php [turmzimmer.net]

The June 6 date still depends on how fast the level will drop -- at the time of writing, it is at 17 RC bugs, it will have to be at 0 on June 3, so they have some work to do.

Security support is already in place, though, so there is not really a reason to hold off upgrading :)

Jan

Great news! (1)

vhogemann (797994) | more than 9 years ago | (#12683101)

Now, if they could backport all the nice features from Ubuntu to Sketch... That would be awesome!

As much as I like Ubuntu, I'd love an consolidated repository under Debian control.

Re:Great news! (1)

vhogemann (797994) | more than 9 years ago | (#12683148)

Just to correct myself...

When you read Sketch, I mean Etch... You know, from etch-a-sketch...

It's morning, and I barely had my fist cup of coffee. Sorry.

Re:Great news! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12683389)

It's morning, and I barely had my fist cup of coffee.

When you're done, I have Dr. Frued for you on line 1.

MEPIS (1)

metamatic (202216) | more than 9 years ago | (#12683496)

Try MEPIS. It's an advanced distribution with all the nice stuff like Ubuntu, but it runs on the Debian testing repositories without compatibility problems.

etch is next (5, Informative)

cyber_rigger (527103) | more than 9 years ago | (#12683103)

Re:etch is next (1)

gowen (141411) | more than 9 years ago | (#12683150)

... but information about it is somewhat sketchy/

Fedora Core 4 (3, Informative)

mukund (163654) | more than 9 years ago | (#12683115)

Fedora Core 4 is also scheduled for June 6 [redhat.com] .

Re:Fedora Core 4 (2, Funny)

Jarnis (266190) | more than 9 years ago | (#12683139)

New Debian and new Fedora Core on same day? I assume this is an attempt to DDOS major backbones? :)

Recently announced, Munich has choosen Debian (4, Interesting)

MarkEst1973 (769601) | more than 9 years ago | (#12683124)

Munich, if you didn't know, is making a much publicized switch from Windows NT to Linux. They recently (April 18, 2005) announced to use a customized distribution of Debian for the 14,000 city desktops.

You can read more about it here: Munich chooses Debian [zdnet.com.au]

Re:Recently announced, Munich has choosen Debian (1)

Speare (84249) | more than 9 years ago | (#12683322)

I'm dubious of any of these government-switches-to-Linux stories, until there are actual machines running actual applications for actual government employees. Before that time, it's just as much hot air as any government office, and the motives are just as likely political. They may just be trying to force Microsoft to a different price bracket, with no real intention of following through with the bluff.

Re:Recently announced, Munich has choosen Debian (1)

ssj_195 (827847) | more than 9 years ago | (#12683415)

You're right to be dubious in general as there is a depressing trend of governments using Linux to threaten Microsoft into reducing their prices (but, hey, whatever puts the squeeze on Microsoft is fine by me ;)), but the Munich thing is a done deal. Munich simply does not want Microsoft, and if they aborted their plans and went back to the bosom of MS, I would publicly eat my own head.

Re:Recently announced, Munich has choosen Debian (2, Interesting)

Wudbaer (48473) | more than 9 years ago | (#12683506)

It could still happen in the (for Munich currently perhaps still not too likely case) of a change in local government. While the Social Democrats and Greens who currently rule in Munich are much in favour of the Linux migration, the Christian Democrats who currently are winning out all over Germany are definitely not.

Only 12 months security support of old releases? (5, Insightful)

Tillmann (859300) | more than 9 years ago | (#12683127)

Hi,

only 12 months of security support for the old Debian release, after a new release has come out?

Isn't that a bit short? If Microsoft had stopped supporting Windows 2000 in 2002 (one year after Windows XP came out), everybody would have gone NUTS about it.

Considering that Debian "stable" is targeted at users who are very conservative about upgrades, Woody should be supported for at least a few more years. IMHO.

bye,
Till

Re:Only 12 months security support of old releases (2, Informative)

Sinus0idal (546109) | more than 9 years ago | (#12683212)

Yes, but I've paid for Windows 2000. I can move to sarge for free with a simple dist-upgrade.

Re:Only 12 months security support of old releases (5, Insightful)

vhogemann (797994) | more than 9 years ago | (#12683238)

It's just a matter of issuing "apt-get dist-upgrade" on the console, and your Woody box will became a Sarge box.

Sarge is the new stable, the migration should be transparent on most installations. For those few installations that are so customised, or that had some kind of problem, they're giving a 12 month period to adjust and migrate.

Debian is not like Windows, you don't have to do a full installation to upgrade you system. The upgrades are a natural path if you keep your systems up-to-date with the repositories. That is one reason I love to use Debian.

Re:Only 12 months security support of old releases (2, Insightful)

tao (10867) | more than 9 years ago | (#12683267)

Well, the difference is that noone pays us Debian Developers to do the work. The security team is pretty small and their work is needed for the new stable release. But I'm sure that if you volunteer to do all the security fixes for 4-5 years, noone would mind too much (well, you'd have to pay for the diskspace too, of course, since this would mean that we'd probably end up with old-old-stable, old-stable, and stable...

Re:Only 12 months security support of old releases (1)

Tillmann (859300) | more than 9 years ago | (#12683375)

Hi,

I think the argument "it's free, you can't expect much" just doesn't count nowadays. The Debian concept shouldn't be "it's inferior, but at least it's free".

Concerning the problem of having old-old-stable, old-stable, etc... WELL... right now, Woody is stable. Next week, it may become old-stable. No problem, right? Only when the next stable release after sarge comes out (who knows when... maybe 2008), THEN woody would become old-old-stable... by that time, security support could indeed be discontinued. But not in 12 months!

I can understand when cutting-edge distros who always have the latest package versions, like Gentoo or Ubuntu, don't provide long security support for old versions (actually, even Ubuntu provides security updates of old releases for one year after the new release came out!). But those who really want a rock-solid system, and go through all the pain of still using Woody because of that, deserve more than that.

Of course one could simply do a dist-upgrade. And yes, this is free and it's much less hassle to upgrade than with ANY other distro. But still, in a highly customized server that's running in production use, you can't just type apt-get dist-upgrade, and expect that everything works like before.

bye,
Till

Re:Only 12 months security support of old releases (1)

Cocoronixx (551128) | more than 9 years ago | (#12683456)

I think the argument "it's free, you can't expect much" just doesn't count nowadays. The Debian concept shouldn't be "it's inferior, but at least it's free".

Uhh? Hello? It _is_ free. If you want to provide free security support past the 1 year mark, you go right ahead. Since you feel that somebody should be offering it for free, put _your_ money (well really, time) where your mouth is.

Re:Only 12 months security support of old releases (1)

Slack3r78 (596506) | more than 9 years ago | (#12683303)

That was exactly my thought when I read this. Even if Debian is planning on moving to a much faster release schedule, this goes directly against the extremely stable argument I often get in Debian's favor.

I hate to hold Ubuntu up as an example every time Debian comes up, but they've at least got the right idea: A new release every 6 months, supported for 18 months. They also have plans for an 'Enterprise' release every 12-24 months, sporting Debian-like stability testing.

Personally, I'd argue that even 18 months is a bit on the short side for a production environment, but it's certainly better than 12. This isn't even taking into account that there's also a stable release pattern, and since 3 releases should be supported at any given time, there's nothing to stop you from picking one in the 'middle' if you prefer tried and true to the leading edge.

Re:Only 12 months security support of old releases (1)

damiam (409504) | more than 9 years ago | (#12683477)

So Ubuntu's releases are supported for 18 months. Debian Woody has been supported for 3 years, and still has another year left. If you really want to compare, Debian is supporting its release for 12 months after an upgrade comes out, and Ubuntu is doing the exact same thing.

Re:Only 12 months security support of old releases (1)

shystershep (643874) | more than 9 years ago | (#12683647)

The point that you, and the grandparent, are apparently missing is the fact that the 12 month support window is not for the new (Sarge) release, but for the old (Woody) release that came out in 2002. The support for Woody is thus approaching 3 years, and if the developers hold true to form Sarge is looking at approximately the same length of time for support. In any case, you can almost bet it'll be longer than 18 months.

Re:Only 12 months security support of old releases (1)

cortana (588495) | more than 9 years ago | (#12683359)

Hi Till,

If you want unpaid volunteers to support an already aged/creaking system for a few more years, you had better come up with something more persuasive than that!

Sam

Re:Only 12 months security support of old releases (1)

mjg59 (864833) | more than 9 years ago | (#12683399)

It's likely that third party companies will happily sell you support for beyond that period.

Re:Only 12 months security support of old releases (1)

aug24 (38229) | more than 9 years ago | (#12683470)

The entire point of debian's wonderfully stable 'stable' releases is that you have no reason not to upgrade to the latest stable release of any deb, and you are extremely unlikely to have any problems whatsoever in doing so.

/me touches wood.

J.

Re:Only 12 months security support of old releases (1)

damiam (409504) | more than 9 years ago | (#12683532)

If it was free to upgrade Windows to the next version, and the upgrade only required one command, then your analogy would make more sense. As it is, upgrading Debian is a much easier process than upgrading Windows, and I have a hard time imagining someone taking more than twelve months to do it. And if you really want, I'm sure there are third parties like Progeny that are happy to support the old release themselves for as long as you want to pay them to.

Re:Only 12 months security support of old releases (1)

Phleg (523632) | more than 9 years ago | (#12683663)

The upgrade path to the new release is fully supported. Unlike Windows 2000 -> XP (or even unlike other distributions, such as Fedora or RedHat), a distribution upgrade is guaranteed to be smooth and flawless, and has been tested hundreds of thousands of times.

What I like Debian for (4, Insightful)

DrXym (126579) | more than 9 years ago | (#12683141)

I started playing around with colinux (a user mode Linux that runs on Win32) and needed a root_fs. Lo and behold I found a debian 3.0 root_fs. This was enough to get me going, but the packages are really ancient. So next I changed all the sources to Sarge, and grew a beard while updating. Now I have a spiffy Debian 3.1 all running at something like 90% native under Win32!

The only problem was getting networking going, but that was more to do with colinux and the pain with trying to create TAP devices on Win32. I sure hope that MS ship with TAP-Win32 in their next release. They really, really should.

OT: coLinux (2, Interesting)

AnomalyConcept (656699) | more than 9 years ago | (#12683312)

What version of Windows are you using? For me, the coLinux installer (0.6.2) created those for me. I might have told it to, but I had more difficulty getting my firewall to play nicely than configuring the networking.

Re:OT: coLinux (1)

DrXym (126579) | more than 9 years ago | (#12683445)

Windows XP. CoLinux requires WinPCap to tap into ethernet connections, and things get a little complicated at that point depending on DHCP, bridged devices, and other factors. After a lot of reading the wiki, screwing around with various settings and reboots (of XP & Linux) I got it working, but it wasn't that easy.

number of RC bugs to fix (4, Informative)

jdowland (764773) | more than 9 years ago | (#12683144)

Hmm 50 is an over-estimate (maybe it wasn't when the story was submitted); according to http://bugs.debian.org/release-critical/ [debian.org] there are only 28.

Preventing some Debian trolling (5, Informative)

rhymesmith (528299) | more than 9 years ago | (#12683145)

To prevent some Debian trolling I want to clarify some facts about the release model used by the Debian project.

Debian always provides a stable distribution. This distribution is guaranteed to, yes you guessed it, be stable. That is if you install Debian stable on a server you know that you won't have to update configuration files because the application has changed its internal format and suchlike.

This does not mean that the stable distribution is never updated, in fact Debian has a security team that fixes security bugs and backports security fixes from newer versions of a package.

The stable distribution has a quite slow release cycle, but there is no reason for a desktop user to run the stable distribution. You can run either the unstable distribution, that regardless of its name is quite stable, or you can run the testing distribution.

The unstable and testing distributions have really large collections of packages and are updated each day, updating your distribution is as simple as typing:

#apt-get update
#apt-get dist-upgrade

A desktop user can also opt to run a Debian-derivative like Ubuntu.

Re:Preventing some Debian trolling (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12683250)

The stable distribution has a quite slow release cycle

In the same sense that evolutionary speciation "takes quite a long time".

Not everything has to be years old either (1)

dsplat (73054) | more than 9 years ago | (#12683539)

I've been running Debian 3.0 on my home desktop for about 18 months now. Yes, there are a lot of ancient versions on it. However, there are plenty of backports of popular packages available too. I've never been more than one minor release behind on Mozilla. I'm a little out-of-date on OpenOffice, but I'm certainly not stuck on 1.0. And I built GCC 4.0.0 myself from sources yesterday.

In all that time, three things have broken and all of them were installed from sources other than Debian packages. I have a driver for my onboard NIC from Intel. They didn't release it under the GPL until they were happy with it, which was a later version of the kernel than I'm running. When the kernel is patched, I have to reinstall their driver. The other two are very similar issues. I've had the same sort of problems with drivers for hardware that's newer than the kernel I'm running on other distros. This isn't solely a Debian issue.

Oh... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12683153)

I think I came already. Sorry Sarge.

Hooray! (3, Funny)

fr0dicus (641320) | more than 9 years ago | (#12683155)

Finally I can upgrade my kernel:

Linux debian 2.4.18-bf2.4 #1 Son Apr 14 09:53:28 CEST 2002 i686 GNU/Linux

Re:Hooray! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12683194)

well .. you should probably know you've been running an insecure kernel for a while then. That kernel is meant only for installations. There does exist 2.4.18 in woody, but there are newer versions with backported security fixes and more drivers.

Re:upgrading from the installer kernel to 2.4.18 (1)

skidv (656766) | more than 9 years ago | (#12683441)

apt-get update
apt-get install kernel-image-2.4.18-1-686

Re:Hooray! (1)

Phleg (523632) | more than 9 years ago | (#12683689)

You should have updated the kernel long ago. The boot-floppies kernel has several major security vulnerabilities (discovered post-release). The kernel-image packages for various kernel releases are there for you to upgrade to.

The new installer (3, Insightful)

dmouritsendk (321667) | more than 9 years ago | (#12683215)

Does anybody know if it will allow creation of LVM2 volumes during install?

Re:The new installer (3, Informative)

bgat (123664) | more than 9 years ago | (#12683324)

It does now.

Finally (5, Informative)

petteri_666 (745343) | more than 9 years ago | (#12683243)

After Sarges release there will be nice new things coming to unstable:
KDE 3.4
GNOME 2.10
gcc 4.0
xorg 6.8.2
python 2.4

Long live Debian ;)

Re:Finally (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12683734)

$ apt-cache policy python2.4
python2.4:
Installed: (none)
Candidate: 2.4.1-2
Version Table:
2.4.1-2 0
500 http://ftp.debian.org/ [debian.org] sarge/main Packages

2.4 is already in sarge

Not sure why people complain about time/age (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12683252)

Red Hat has moved to a slower release system, and your PHB seems to think it's a good idea.

Instead of an upgrade cycle that happens every six months, your company can build an infrastructure on a system that should be around for 2 or more years(based on history). The development is open, which should be appealing for companies that are developing software products on Linux. You could even setup your own apt repository for updates. I find it odd that companies like Oracle,HP,etc don't actively endorse Debian for server/software products. They could have been preparing for Sarge's release for three years now, following development, and ensuring thier software would run on Debian.

So is the apocalypse (0)

TheLinuxWarrior (240496) | more than 9 years ago | (#12683348)

Errr....or so they say anyway...

Re:So is the apocalypse (0)

fbjon (692006) | more than 9 years ago | (#12683634)

The apocalypse doesn't have a release cycle though. I hope.

Well at least it's not stable!

Cutting edge features. (-1, Troll)

Jerk City Troll (661616) | more than 9 years ago | (#12683350)

I hear it will sport kernel 2.4.3, XFree86 4.1, KDE 2, and GNOME 1.8. Any one else have any details on the updated software list?

Hmmm, same day as Fedora Core 4... (1)

ArthurYarwood (539110) | more than 9 years ago | (#12683434)

Interesting choice of release date, with it scheduled as the released date of Fedora Core 4. Fedora. http://fedora.redhat.com/participate/schedule/ [redhat.com]

I sure its just coincidence...

And in other news... (1)

DoctorPepper (92269) | more than 9 years ago | (#12683444)

Duke Nukem Forever will be relased shortly thereafter...

i'll have them available (-1, Offtopic)

downsize (551098) | more than 9 years ago | (#12683538)

if you have an account here [shinyfeet.com] I will be getting the release (same goes for FC4) and putting it in a shared dir. email me [mailto] and I'll add you to the share. this should be 10x faster than the mirrors that will get bogged down, as shinyfeet.com is not a public file server, but does have file sharing (for its users).

instead of sarge.... (3, Funny)

flacco (324089) | more than 9 years ago | (#12683550)

...they should have named this release "Godot".

The 6th of June (1)

ACNiel (604673) | more than 9 years ago | (#12683669)

Just so long as he doesn't jump off the Tallahatchie bridge.
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