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Redhat Spins Off Fedora Project

Zonk posted more than 9 years ago | from the growing-up dept.

Red Hat Software 300

Blahbooboo3 writes "In a bid to attract a larger following among developers, Red Hat has spun off its Fedora open source project into a more independent foundation. As part of the transition, the Fedora open source project will transfer development work and copyright ownership of contributed code to the foundation but Red Hat will continue to provide substantial financial and engineering support." From the article: "The proposed patents common, which mimics the Creative Commons licensing scheme for creative works including art and music, is designed to enable developers to exchange ideas with fewer concerns about patent infringement. and Red Hat's efforts to lobby for patent reform in the U.S. and Europe."

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how do they make money? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12715789)

How does Red Hat make money again. Seriously. Who are their big clients, what are the primary services they provide?

sukking thine cock is their methode of moneymaking (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12715843)

did ye not knoweth this? it was thine own cock, after all

Re:how do they make money? (1)

Neil Blender (555885) | more than 9 years ago | (#12715869)

How does Red Hat make money again. Seriously. Who are their big clients, what are the primary services they provide?

Dell ships computers with Red Hat Enterprise Linux which I assume they buy from Red Hat. In fact, I am posting from one right now. Dell is also nice enough to provide shrink a wrapped RHE disk set which we install on our IBM x-series servers.

Re:how do they make money? (1)

ZephyrXero (750822) | more than 9 years ago | (#12716071)

I really think Red Hat's focus is just about where it should be....You release Red Hat Personal (Fedora) for free and then you sell Red Hat Enterprise along with services to businesses...then use the same developers and code base.....I really wish someone in the Gentoo community would take this to heart.

Re:how do they make money? (1)

njcoder (657816) | more than 9 years ago | (#12716161)

Yeah that all sounds good until CentOS comes along and offers a free alternative built on the RHEL sources for those of us that don't want to spend thousands of dollars per server per year on every box running red hat whether we want support for it or not.

Re:how do they make money? (1)

ZephyrXero (750822) | more than 9 years ago | (#12716313)

Well that's their problem....they're charging too much.... If they charged a reasonable price, businesses would be more than willing to pay it for the services aspect. Does CentOS have a 24 hour tech support number?

Re:how do they make money? (1)

superpulpsicle (533373) | more than 9 years ago | (#12716173)

You must work for Redhat to think that way. The supposedly "better" enterprise version is totally inaccessible to the general audience unless you had a Redhat network account. The less stable version Fedora is freely available.

Now you tell me.... why should the average user run Redhat Fedora if it's not the best version the company has to offer?

Last good version of Redhat is Redhat 9. Good enough for corporations to run production, free enough for everyone.

Re:how do they make money? (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12715907)

oh you know .. no one big.

Google
Toyota
Sony
Ameritrade

Re:how do they make money? (5, Insightful)

birder (61402) | more than 9 years ago | (#12715920)

Companies who want to use Linux but want a nice safe company to blame use Red Hat. $500-1750 per year per copy. They get around $25k a year from us. I've never once in 3 years called Red Hat for support but management is happy to pay that price to point the finger at someone to blame.

Re:how do they make money? (1)

winkydink (650484) | more than 9 years ago | (#12716097)

It's called Risk Management.

Re:how do they make money? (1)

tehshen (794722) | more than 9 years ago | (#12715932)

They sell stuff [redhat.com] . Specifically, RHEL, and support for it.

Why use fedora? (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12715794)

What advantages does it have over other distros (Debian, por ejemplo)?

Re:Why use fedora? (1)

peterpi (585134) | more than 9 years ago | (#12715878)

It feels like RedHat. That's enough for some people.

(*shrug* I dunno, that's only a guess. I use Debian Sarge)

Re:Why use fedora? (1)

Trigun (685027) | more than 9 years ago | (#12715884)

Fedora Directory Server, for one.

Re:Why use fedora? (2, Interesting)

mogrify (828588) | more than 9 years ago | (#12715891)

Off the top of my head...
  • Association with the Redhat brand, and therefore similar tools, look & feel, etc.
  • More recently released packages (this can go both ways)
  • Pretty GUI installer, if you like that kind of thing

Re:Why use fedora? (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12715952)

Off the top of my head...

No, on the top of your head, silly. It keeps the sun out of your eyes.

Re:Why use fedora? (4, Funny)

hotdiggitydawg (881316) | more than 9 years ago | (#12715943)

The brim keeps the rain off your face, whereas a Debian tin-foil skullcap doesn't.

Re:Why use fedora? (2, Insightful)

TheLinuxWarrior (240496) | more than 9 years ago | (#12716101)

One reason to use it is when you have split environments.

Example: Production/Development/Test

You want the same look and feel/packages installed the same way on ALL servers, but you only want to pay for premium support for the prod servers. So use RHEL on those, and Fedora on Dev/Test to save money on licensing.

Re:Why use fedora? (1)

Homology (639438) | more than 9 years ago | (#12716249)

What advantages does it have over other distros (Debian, por ejemplo)?

On one hand the Fedora is nothing more than a beta version of an upcomming commercial version from Redhat. You do all the testing, but on the other hand you get to download it for free. On the gripping hand you may use other BSD/distros that name a beta version a beta version and a release version a release version.

Re:Why use fedora? (1)

Chapium (550445) | more than 9 years ago | (#12716287)

From my experience, things generally work out of the box. Little manipulation is needed to get working sound, video, X, etc.

Re:Why use fedora? (1)

m50d (797211) | more than 9 years ago | (#12716307)

Brand recognition. To many people, red hat *is* linux.

I remember RedHat (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12715805)

hmmmm, golden days.

back to reality.....

As of yet... (3, Interesting)

ImaLamer (260199) | more than 9 years ago | (#12715812)

I see nothing on Redhat's site or the Fedora site about this.

Wouldn't that be the first place I should be looking?

Your username is oddly appropriate (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12715841)

Maybe you should RTFA

Re:As of yet... (3, Informative)

DrinkingIllini (842502) | more than 9 years ago | (#12715864)

From the article...

At the Red Hat Summit, Mark Webbink, Deputy General Counsel at Red Hat, is expected to announce the creation of the Fedora Foundation and the Software Patent Commons.

That is why there isn't anything on the websites yet, it hasn't been "officially" announced.

Re:As of yet... (2, Informative)

brontus3927 (865730) | more than 9 years ago | (#12715919)

This was reported on CRN this morning, and apparently InfoWeek. Google News lists articles of this from Business Wire, GeekCoffee, and eWeek, among others.

Re:As of yet... (3, Informative)

brontus3927 (865730) | more than 9 years ago | (#12715959)

Oops, I meant to link to those articles.

CRN [crn.com] , GeekCoffee [geekcoffee.net] , Business Wire [businesswire.com] , and eWeek [eweek.com]

Ubuntu ? (5, Interesting)

anandpur (303114) | more than 9 years ago | (#12715832)

Is this because ubuntu [ubuntulinux.org] is gaining popularity and large number of GNOME developres are in ubuntu camp?

Re:Ubuntu ? (1)

CmdrTaco (troll) (578383) | more than 9 years ago | (#12715904)

Ubunto and GNOME. Hippies don't come any dirtier than that.

Re:Ubuntu ? (5, Insightful)

LnxAddct (679316) | more than 9 years ago | (#12716070)

Fedora's growth rate is 3 times that of the next fastest growing distro, Gentoo. In a little under 2 years Fedora has over 400,000 live servers on the net (yes a few were prior RH servers, but estimates show only about 10,000 - 20,000). Gentoo's growth rate is fast but they still are only around 63,000 servers. Fedora is overtaking Suse (they are about 25,000 servers apart). The two biggest distros are Red Hat Enterprise with 1.6 million servers and Debian with 760,000 servers. Most of the Ubuntu users are previous Debian testing and unstable users and previous Gentoo users. Red Hat is currently by far the biggest supporter of Gnome, the only company that ever claim close was Ximian. Red Hat dumps a ton of money into Gnome including developers, HIGs, user studies, quality assurance, and general advancement of the free desktop. Ubuntu is not even in the same ballpark as Fedora, its users just make a lot of noise and its founder has a lot of money for PR.
Regards,
Steve

Re:Ubuntu ? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12716178)

uwhatu?

oh.

never mind, i really don't care to hear about the latest flavor of the month. again.

Re:Ubuntu ? (1)

Uruk (4907) | more than 9 years ago | (#12716267)

Very unlikely. It probably has much more to do with Red Hat's move into the server market - they don't seem too concerned with desktop linux because that's really not how they make their money. The things they do in the server market you might be able to attribute to reactions to whatever else is happening with other vendors, but they just don't focus on Fedora anymore, that's why they're letting it go.

Giving more control to an external foundation is a good thing. I hope the developers run with it.

what about KDE? (3, Interesting)

Karma Sucks (127136) | more than 9 years ago | (#12715850)

Will this finally put KDE development on an equal footing with GNOME in Fedora? Will KDE improvements from KDE developers to the RPM packages in Fedora now be accepted?

Right now KDE suffers a big disadvantage vs GNOME. It is held crippled by "desktop" rules but not in the same way as GNOME. The GNOME desktop is seeing development, but the KDE desktop in Fedora is stagnating because it is not seeing any new development and it is even not taking new stuff from the KDE upstream like PlastiK defaults.

So, I say again, will this be an opportunity for true improvement of KDE in Fedora? And if not, why not?

Re:what about KDE? (1)

MountainMan101 (714389) | more than 9 years ago | (#12715909)

Good point. I have never had much experience with KDE - mainly because I've always used RH or FC and GNOME is much better represented.

Re:what about KDE? (1)

brontus3927 (865730) | more than 9 years ago | (#12716033)

Most of my Linux experience was with Mandrake, and even that uses GNOME by default. I've always prefered the Look&Feel of KDE, though. Having said that, I've yet to use a K app that I liked.

Mandrake uses KDE by default or has no default (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12716081)

Depending on which version you download, either KDE is the default or you have to choose. You got it wrong...

Re:Mandrake uses KDE by default or has no default (1)

brontus3927 (865730) | more than 9 years ago | (#12716216)

Did I? Shit. Guess that's what happens when you manage to go a 6 months without reinstalling an OS...you go soft and forget things.

Re:Mandrake uses KDE by default or has no default (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12716314)

Yep. Here's the distrowatch page:

http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=mand rake [distrowatch.com]

Notice it's KDE default throughout the existence of Mandrake.

Re:what about KDE? (2, Insightful)

ArsonSmith (13997) | more than 9 years ago | (#12716098)

I know what you mean. I wish the look and feel guys from KDE would get together with the application guys of gnome. work together rather than seperately. right now we have competeing desktops that both suck. Picking and choosing and combining efforts would work much better.

Re:what about KDE? (1)

brontus3927 (865730) | more than 9 years ago | (#12716265)

Exactly. I install both KDE and GNOME. That way I can use KDE for WM tasks and have all th gt libraries to run GNOME and other gtk apps. Except for poorly written/designed apps, the KDE Look&Feel renders GNOME apps consitently with the KDE fare.

Re:what about KDE? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12716229)

Mandrake does not use KDE by default, at least not in the more than 5 years that I have been using it on my workstation. However, it does include gnome packages that do work well, but I prefer to stay with the default KDE setup.

Re:what about KDE? (1)

brontus3927 (865730) | more than 9 years ago | (#12716318)

Yeah, yeah, I already acknowledged the mistake. Maybe I should reinstall my OS tonite just to keep myself on my toes.

Kde configuration tools, Kde-Ooo (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12715913)

Don't forgot the inclusion of Kde configuration tools and OOo-Kde and GTK-Qt theme. These too must now be accepted.

Re:what about KDE? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12715939)

Not to be picky.... but when you say the last line of your post, aren't your really asking? :P

Re:what about KDE? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12716022)

Not to be picky ... but what does " aren't your really asking? " mean?

Re:what about KDE? (1)

Erwos (553607) | more than 9 years ago | (#12716108)

"The GNOME desktop is seeing development, but the KDE desktop in Fedora is stagnating because it is not seeing any new development and it is even not taking new stuff from the KDE upstream"

I have no idea what you're talking about. Fedora Core always includes an updated version of KDE. FC4 has KDE 3.4.0, for instance.

-Erwos

Re:what about KDE? (1)

Karma Sucks (127136) | more than 9 years ago | (#12716197)

Which part of PlastiK defaults did you not understand? KDE in FC is using an OUTDATED Redhat theme compared to GNOME and they don't even have the decency to change KDE back to PlasTiK.

Re:what about KDE? (1)

Erwos (553607) | more than 9 years ago | (#12716266)

That's ONE THING. Your post made it sound like they never touched KDE. That's flatly untrue.

It's not like you can't use Plastik, either. I mean, listen to yourself: you're whining they didn't use your favorite theme. Get over it.

-Erwos

Re:what about KDE? (1)

SirTalon42 (751509) | more than 9 years ago | (#12716199)

Fedora doesn't release any updates for KDE after it (Fedora) is released. I use KDE-RedHat for all my KDE upgrading needs (and I get full mpeg support then).

Re:what about KDE? (4, Insightful)

Jason Earl (1894) | more than 9 years ago | (#12716111)

My guess is that Red Hat will primarily be paying Red Hat engineers to work on Gnome, and I would also bet that the folks that work on FC will continue to work on making the Gnome and KDE stuff look similar. In other words the KDE stuff will continue to look like the Gnome stuff.

For this to change then the KDE community would have to get a lot more involved with the FC community. In fact, they would have to get enough involved that they could change the course of the distribution. I am not part of the FC community, but I have watched enough Free Software projects that I would be very surprised if this signalled a big change. Red Hat is doing all it can to make Fedora as independent as possible, but it still is going to be providing the bulk of the actual development time.

The final end of GNOME (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12715852)

So, looks like even Red Hat is going to get rid of GNOME finally now where MONO made it into GNOME.

Linux Users:
http://rapidshare.de/files/2066703/gnome-the-movie .avi.gz.html [rapidshare.de]

Windows Users:
http://rapidshare.de/files/2067142/gnome.zip.html [rapidshare.de]

Howto Download - Explained here! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12716327)

Click on "Free" at the bottom, wait for the timer to count down at the bottom, it will give you a download ticket and a link.

Reaction to Ubuntu success? (4, Interesting)

georgep77 (97111) | more than 9 years ago | (#12715855)

It seems to me that the rise in popularity of Ubuntu has caused "ripples" of concern amoung some of the more established (read older) distributions. As in the commercial world open source projects live and die by "mindshare" almost as much as technical merit. The spinning off of Fedora sounds like an attempt to recapture some lost mindshare.

Cheers,
_GP_

How are you measuring this success? (1)

glrotate (300695) | more than 9 years ago | (#12715926)

Is this just a hunch, or do you have hard numbers?

Re:How are you measuring this success? (1)

Anonymous Crowhead (577505) | more than 9 years ago | (#12715979)

Quick! Someone post distrowatch stats! We all know how definitive those are.

Re:How are you measuring this success? (1)

georgep77 (97111) | more than 9 years ago | (#12716004)

Well there is always http://distrowatch.com/> but just in general "mindshare" I get the impression that Ubuntu is gaining favor with many Linux advocates.

_GP_

Re:How are you measuring this success? (1)

Otter (3800) | more than 9 years ago | (#12716079)

Hard numbers [slashdot.org] . Well, you can decide how meaningful those Nicholas Petreley surveys are -- I have my doubts but the esteemed editors of this site certainly found them trustworthy when it came to Microsoft bashing.

But beyond that, I'll throw in purely anecdotal agreement with the others. I can't recall commercial distributions ever having such a low profile in the overall distro picture.

Re:How are you measuring this success? (1)

LnxAddct (679316) | more than 9 years ago | (#12716156)

You might want to read this [netcraft.com] .
Regards,
Steve

Re:Reaction to Ubuntu success? (1)

AKAImBatman (238306) | more than 9 years ago | (#12716102)

There's just one thing I don't understand about Ubuntu: Why are they shipping free(!) CDs to people? That has to cost them a fortune, especically for international shipments! I love a free gift as much as the next guy, but the thought of getting a no-cost Ubuntu CD without the company ever seeing a return makes me feel kind of cheap.

Anyone have the scoop?

Re:Reaction to Ubuntu success? (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12716222)

The guy who started Ubuntu has:

a) bucketloads of dosh
b) a will to change the world
c) a point of view that freedom of access to information is valuable
d) a point of view that free software is a good way of giving back to the community
e) a point of view (which meshes well with the free software community) that software should be [vry en nie net gratis nie]

His money. His decision. Nice linux. I have no complaints.

Re:Reaction to Ubuntu success? (2, Informative)

Kristoffer Lunden (800757) | more than 9 years ago | (#12716295)

The business model seems to be providing technical support, and the CDs help spreading the distribution and make it common. And it works. I've several friends who've switched because they got those CDs, two of them permanently (well, we'll see if it lasts) from being Windows users to 100% Ubuntu.

Also, I read an interview somewhere with the very rich guy who sponsors the whole thing where he said that he hopes he can eventually make money of it this way, but if not, he doesn't mind spending some of his money for a good cause. Apparently he's from South Africa(?), and feels that the world, especially the poorer part, needs a cheap, open and reliable alternative. This is the same guy who had enough money to buy himself a spacetrip, so I guess he can afford it.

Sorry, I'm not sure on the exact details, but I'm sure that interview can be found on google if you want to.

Re:Reaction to Ubuntu success? (1)

LnxAddct (679316) | more than 9 years ago | (#12716117)

Read this [netcraft.com] . Ubuntu is nothing but a bunch of previous debian unstable and testing users who migrated. Fedora is one of the leading distros and hs been for a while. It's gained that much popularity and it isn't even 2 years old yet. If you've never used Fedora then you wouldn't understand how great and seamless it all works together. In fact, Ubuntu uses Gnome and most of Gnome was coded by Red Hat and Fedora engineers (along with a significant chunk from Ximian too) and they continue to advance it to this very day. Ubuntu is not competition for Fedora, Ubuntu is just some Debian users shifting over.
Regards,
Steve

Re:Reaction to Ubuntu success? (1)

jav1231 (539129) | more than 9 years ago | (#12716182)

I would hardly consider Fedora such a lofty distro. I refuse to use it. I'm one of those who was shafted by RH when they dumped their desktop Linux, this despite actually making money on it. OTOH, I wouldn't consider Ubuntu a leading distro and certainly not one making the likes of RH, SuSE/Novell, or even Gentoo quake in their shoes. I use CentOS currently, because I get RHEL and don't have to give those a$$holes my money. See I offered RH my money and they basically said without an Inc. after my name I could piss-off.

Re:Reaction to Ubuntu success? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12716230)

Indeed. I agree. Another thing that rankled me about Red Hat was Alan Coxand his mindless censoring of security changes made in the Linux kernel due
to the DMCA. I refuse to use a Linux distro that is based in the US for this reason.

Re:Reaction to Ubuntu success? (4, Interesting)

93 Escort Wagon (326346) | more than 9 years ago | (#12716125)

" It seems to me that the rise in popularity of Ubuntu has caused "ripples" of concern amoung some of the more established (read older) distributions."

I don't think so. The people who go for Ubuntu seem to be in large part the same people who went for Gentoo a year ago (and were making these sorts of comments then as well) - and they'll go for the next du jour in 2006. They're a very vocal group - especially in places like /. - but the actual installed base is pretty inconsequential.

Re:Reaction to Ubuntu success? (1)

digidave (259925) | more than 9 years ago | (#12716296)

You forget that Ubuntu has converted a lot of former Debian users because they have a similar Free Software philosophy to Debian, employ a lot of old Debian programmers and the OS works the same way.

It's also worth noting that people use Ubuntu because it beats the pants off Fedora for ease of use. Gentoo or any other distro-of-the-month never did that, they only offered gimmicks. Simple Debian isn't a gimmick.

Re:Reaction to Ubuntu success? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12716330)

It seems to me that uwhatu?'s success is basically smoke flying up people's butts.

you have to step throught the tiny door that leads to uwhatu?'s teensy wheensy world and once inside, sure you'll find the fan club singing the praises.

bah. whatever.

my anecdotal evidence (everyone else is giving it)from lug meetings, forums, lists, contracting and usenet is this:

uwhatu?

p.s. the "Fedora sounds like an attempt to recapture some lost mindshar" part is true. at least your head is not totally in the clouds.

Change of Direction (3, Interesting)

geomon (78680) | more than 9 years ago | (#12715871)

I see that they are willing to support "new Fedora" with engineering and financial assistance, but I wonder how long they will continue to help if the disto takes a turn that they do not support.

What if Fedora begins to look, over time, more like Debian? Would they continue to provide engineering and financial support for that?

An earlier article [slashdot.org] about Redhat developers wanting to dump old platforms may indicate how tolerant they are in supporting ideals that do not fit into their business model.

Re:Change of Direction (2, Informative)

LnxAddct (679316) | more than 9 years ago | (#12716181)

Fedora is the base of their Enterprise Linux line. Whatever Fedora does will become a large chunk of RHEL. Red Hat pays their engineers to work on Fedora, Fedora will still be headed by Red Hat engineers, just from a financial and project standpoint they'll be more independant.
Regards,
Steve

Re:Change of Direction (1)

Waffle Iron (339739) | more than 9 years ago | (#12716194)

I see that they are willing to support "new Fedora" with engineering and financial assistance, but I wonder how long they will continue to help if the disto takes a turn that they do not support.

They've said in the past that Fedora was supposed to be a "test bed" for stuff that will end up in RHEL. It seems like that will become hard to accomplish if they give up control over Fedora's direction. They might have to create a new internal test bed that more directly matches their plans for RHEL, and Fedora might eventually become no more useful for that purpose than most any other distro out there. If that happens, it's hard to see why they would continue to invest resources in it.

Maybe having the public test bed wasn't providing that much benefit, and now they think that grabbing more mindshare from individual developers is a more important goal. Maybe Fedora isn't working out as they planned at all, and this is their way to get rid of it without looking bad. Maybe it's something else altogether. It's hard to say.

Thats good (4, Interesting)

brickballs (839527) | more than 9 years ago | (#12715873)

Fedoras a decent operating system, I'v used it at times before. but what I'm really interested in is the patent reform.

From the article:

"Red Hat also promises to bolster its work on patent reform. After his discussion on open source licensing on Thursday, Webbink told CRN that many vendors including Red Hat and Nokia are pushing for is patent and copyright reforms because current laws presents obstacles to the open source movement. For its part, Red Hat is working with the European Parliament to modify the Computer-Implemented Inventions directive, Red Hat said. In the U.S., Red Hat has called for reform of the patent system to ensure better patent quality."

It looks to me linke Europs really doing better on patent reform than the US. I'm really hoping that we can get our stuff together here stateside before its too late.

Wasn't FC already... (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12715876)

Wasn't Fedora a spinoff already? If so, we could have our generations' Happy Days [wikipedia.org] . Linus as the Fonze? More like Richie. ESR can be Mork [wikipedia.org] .

Re:Wasn't FC already... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12716057)

So yer saying Fedora has jumped the shark?

umbilical (2, Interesting)

hotdiggitydawg (881316) | more than 9 years ago | (#12715915)

Sounds like Red Hat is cutting the cord, if you ask me. Still, support in principle is better than no support at all. And they'd never give up on it completely - thousands of developers working for free so they can "add value" and make a bundle?

Re:umbilical (2, Informative)

LnxAddct (679316) | more than 9 years ago | (#12716208)

Fedora is officially a testbed of technologies to be integrated into RHEL. Fedora is more or less the base for their enterprise line and that is the plan. Fedora will still be headed by red hat engineers and still funded by red hat, just from a political/financial standpoint they'll be more independant and more open to outside developers. This is already being shown with Fedora Core 4 and the Extras repository.
Regards,
Steve

But what about Google? (0, Troll)

nokilli (759129) | more than 9 years ago | (#12715941)

nt

So we're coming full circle now... (1)

PenguinBoyDave (806137) | more than 9 years ago | (#12715954)

I wonder what lessons, if any, Red Hat has learned from the past two years, and if they would do it all over again?

Re:So we're coming full circle now... (1)

LnxAddct (679316) | more than 9 years ago | (#12716242)

What do you mean if they learned anything? Fedora has come to be one of the most successful distros yet [netcraft.com] . Sure some users left Red Hat (an upper maximum of 10,000) but they gained 400,000 in Fedora and their Enterprise line is doing better then ever. Red Hat is doing everything right, while also being a major backbone in open source development (most of those programs you use have a lot of code from Red Hat paid engineers). There is a reason Michael Dell just invested 99.5 million in the company, he sees it going places. Why should they change? Their growth rates have never been stronger.
Regards,
Steve

Need of full democracy (1)

bogaboga (793279) | more than 9 years ago | (#12715993)

This is good news. Next, we need "Full Democracy" in selecting foundation officials. We could adopt Debian's approach.

Re:Need of full democracy (3, Insightful)

winkydink (650484) | more than 9 years ago | (#12716049)

Yeah, look how fast Debian has been able to move and adapt.

IMHO, well-managed projects need a benevolent dictator at the top to keep things moving.

Re:Need of full democracy (1)

dAzED1 (33635) | more than 9 years ago | (#12716131)

or at least, a well-oiled republic ;)

Re:Need of full democracy (4, Insightful)

eviltypeguy (521224) | more than 9 years ago | (#12716174)

One problem with that theory. You criticize Fedora for not being like Debian, even though Fedora's control structure is roughly the same as Ubuntu's. Yet, both Ubuntu and Fedora have none of the problems that Debian has. That isn't to say that Fedora and Ubuntu are equally successful, but they're both more successful than Debian. Tell me again why they should adopt Debian's approach, when it has failed and Fedora and Ubuntu are successful by comparison?

Red Hat Spins Off Fedora Project (1)

fox9397 (873641) | more than 9 years ago | (#12715995)

I wonder if they are trying to help shake off the feeling some have that fedora is just a Red Hat Beta distribution.

Just join Debian already (1)

S. Baldrick (565691) | more than 9 years ago | (#12715998)

Why do we need two separate Linux packaging "communities?" Debian already spans multiple architectures and multiple kernels. Multiple package formats would not be too much of a stretch particularly using apt as a unifying layer over both. Each distro has some unique stuff the other could use but mostly they are duplicating work. And they share the same Free Software ideals. So IMO a merger would make sense.

Re:Just join Debian already (1)

MynockGuano (164259) | more than 9 years ago | (#12716129)

Could be because Fedora has practically gone from non-existence all the way through 3 releases and nearly a 4th since Debian last saw a release. Different focus, different communities.

Re:Just join Debian already (1)

Trigun (685027) | more than 9 years ago | (#12716196)

Not to start a flame war, but if I liked debian, I'd use debian.

I use slackware, because I like slackware. I can use Debian if I have to, but it's my choice to use slack. Anything that apt can do I can do with ldd and a tgz package. That's my choice. I don't want a debian system, any more than I want an Ubuntu system, anymore than I want a mandrake system. And once I can coerce Pat Voldekerg to include PAM, I won't have to roll my own slack packages.

I wonder... (1)

Lord Kano (13027) | more than 9 years ago | (#12716006)

If this has anything to do with the negative image that RedHat has had in the community since the termination of their "free" distro.

LK

Re:I wonder... (1)

LnxAddct (679316) | more than 9 years ago | (#12716264)

That negative image that you're thinking of is non-existant [netcraft.com] . Its just a small group of people making a bunch of noise.
Regards,
Steve

question about ago old redhat peeve.... (1)

tloh (451585) | more than 9 years ago | (#12716010)

It has been a while since I've followed the redhat camp. I was wondering if a reasonable solution exists yet for the dependancy problem that many complained about during package upgrades. As recently as a few months ago, my brother in law switched to Gentoo in frustration after he ran into too much hastle trying to get a SQL package installed on his redhat laptop. The last thing I heard with a bearing on this topic was work being done by Ian Murdock attempting to bring Redhat and Debian closer together. [arstechnica.com] Does anyone know how much that effort has progressed?

Re:question about ago old redhat peeve.... (1)

Erwos (553607) | more than 9 years ago | (#12716080)

"I was wondering if a reasonable solution exists yet for the dependancy problem that many complained about during package upgrades"

It's called "yum". It works pretty well now - the speed issues have been solved, and it's on more or less equal footing with apt, at least in my experience. Dependency issues are more or less dead, and have been since FC1.

-Erwos

Re:question about ago old redhat peeve.... (1)

SirTalon42 (751509) | more than 9 years ago | (#12716269)

Its great to hear that Yum is making good progress, I use Apt on my laptop (FC3), and like it a lot because in the past it has been loads faster than yum, though when I installed Fedora on my friends computers I have had trouble getting apt installed, and had to settle w/ using yum on it, and found it to be painfully slow, so its good to hear that progress has been made. Hopefully there will be a front end like synaptic soon for it.

Re:question about ago old redhat peeve.... (1)

Erwos (553607) | more than 9 years ago | (#12716302)

Most of the time, slowness with Yum is actually slowness of the mirror being used. Most people who install apt are only using _one_ server, and said server tends to be on the above average side.

Tin Foil Hat, not Red Hat. (0, Flamebait)

rice_burners_suck (243660) | more than 9 years ago | (#12716027)

As part of the transition, the Fedora open source project will transfer development work and copyright ownership of contributed code to the foundation but Red Hat will continue to provide substantial financial and engineering support.

Reminds me of the time that Wind River Systems "spun off" the support they initially gave to the FreeBSD project after buying out Walnut Creek CD-ROM. The community had sent them a number of questions, and their answer was something along the lines of, "We will continue to encourage emerging stewards of the FreeBSD project," along with paragraph after paragraph of additional meaningless duckspeak, in the same form as, "By leveraging innovative technologies, content providers streamline compelling enterprise solutions."

What I'm essentially trying to say, then, is that Red Hat will, for a short time, continue to give equal amounts of support to the Fedora project. But this will slowly wane, as I believe has been Red Hat's plan all along. That is why the name was changed from Red Hat Linux to Fedora Core. They will eventually turn as many components of their so-called Enterprise version of Linux into closed source, proprietary software, in the same style as most of the UNIX OSes out there. The kernel will continue to adhere to the GPL, as will other major components (think Samba, Apache, etc.) with their respective licenses. But I think that nearly all Red Hat development will be in the closed source arena.

This way, Red Hat will have achieved the following interesting goal: They are widely known as the de facto Linux standard, because they were open source for years and provided a lot to the community. But on the other hand, they will be able to make a lot of money on their Enterprise stuff, because most of it will be proprietary and the technologies therein will be unavailable in Fedora or in any other Linux for that matter. Think Mac OS X. Red Hat Enterprise Linux will be about as open source as Apple's software... Sure, hundreds of thousands of lines of code are open source. But the really good stuff, the really innovative stuff, the new stuff that no other OS has is proprietary, closed source, binary, and locked out of view.

This, I believe, is Red Hat's plan. I don't know about you, but I'm putting on my tin-foil hat.

Re:Tin Foil Hat, not Red Hat. (2, Interesting)

Skiron (735617) | more than 9 years ago | (#12716123)

I disagree. Redhat make their money from support and the support of the code - all the code is released under GPL, and you can download it.

I think they are gearing up to become a fully supportive company for businesses - where you can't afford to produce mainline code that isn't up to scratch - and let the Fedora code (their off-spring) take it's first tentative steps away from the nest.

Re:Tin Foil Hat, not Red Hat. (5, Insightful)

Erwos (553607) | more than 9 years ago | (#12716219)

"This, I believe, is Red Hat's plan. I don't know about you, but I'm putting on my tin-foil hat."

Your conspiracy theory is contradicted by, well, everything.

Red Hat bought Netscape Directory Server. They promptly released it as Free software.

They had the cluster file system. They released it as Free software.

RHEL3 and RHEL4 are _all_ Free software. Not some - all.

Sorry, but there is still a very strong Free software sentiment going on over there, and you only need to read the blogs of the employees to find it out. They don't sell anything proprietary, unless you count RHN (which isn't distributed per se anyways).

If you want to convince people, try presenting, I don't know, a coherent argument with some sort of evidence. "I think" is pretty crappy proof.

-Erwos

Let me 'splain it... (1)

jav1231 (539129) | more than 9 years ago | (#12716132)

"In their continuing efforts to remove themselves from the "little people," Red Hat announced today they will distance themselves from the Fedora Project and spin it off. You may recall that Red Hat abandoned (read fscked!) their end user base by EOL'ing Red Hat Linux 9 and decided not to release another desktop version for the masses. Rather, they directed these users to their Fedora Project; assuring customers at the time that they stood solidly behind the project (this despite leaving many customers with PAID support high-and-dry). With this latest news, Red Hat can further distance itself from these pesky end users and concentrate on what it sees as its true revenue stream, corporations."

Fedora Legacy (1)

j-turkey (187775) | more than 9 years ago | (#12716179)

I wonder what will happen to Fedora legacy support with RH out of the picture?

Translation (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12716213)

Red Hat can't make any money off of Fedora, so they're "freeing up its future". It's an admission that the services model only works when the services are a mandatory part of the package (if it works at all).

once again how is this news? (1)

t35t0r (751958) | more than 9 years ago | (#12716257)

We knew this when redhat first said they were going to stop giving away free support back in april of 2003 and that RH9 would the the last "free" supported version. Furthermore we were told to look to the new Fedora distribution (core 1) which would be a separate entity from RH.
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