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India Will Need to Recruit 120,000 Foreigners

Zonk posted more than 8 years ago | from the importing-foreigners dept.

The Almighty Buck 453

indi_jobs writes "After all the noise about jobs moving from Europe and USA to India, ZDNet India is reporting that 'India faces a massive shortage of workers with European language skills over the next five years which could see the country needing to recruit up to 120,000 foreigners...' Looks like the jobs may be moving to India but they might require the original people to do some of the jobs!" From the article: "Evalueserve said the ramping up of non-English speaking capability by the Indian offshore firms is an attempt to capture a larger share of the continental European outsourcing market, and reduce the country's high-risk exposure of more than 80 per cent of business coming from the UK and the U.S. economies."

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453 comments

yeah, I saw it coming (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#12749626)

screw flanders

Are Indian workers *that* much cheaper? (5, Insightful)

drunkennewfiemidget (712572) | more than 8 years ago | (#12749630)

To attract new workers in India and people (as many as 120k) to India, wouldn't they need to offer better benefits, less taxes, higher pay, etc? At that point, wouldn't it make more sense to bring the work back to this side of the ocean?

Re:Are Indian workers *that* much cheaper? (2, Insightful)

winkydink (650484) | more than 8 years ago | (#12749672)

I'd view it more as "seed stock" so that they can meet the immediate demand until get enough Indians trained in other European languages. Lose money in the short term, make money in the long run.

Re:Are Indian workers *that* much cheaper? (5, Insightful)

mgrassi99 (514152) | more than 8 years ago | (#12749683)

This is the beginning of the great "equalization." It won't be long until Indian workers (and foreign workers in India) demand a standard of living that drives up their required salaries. Since the globalization scare began a couple years ago (actually, its been happened for decades), I've been saying it can't last for too long, now that we're all part of one global economy and not packetized in little closed-off sections of the world.

Re:Are Indian workers *that* much cheaper? (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#12749736)

I'd say this is the beginning of the great shafting. It's where all the workers have to move to the country with the least workers rights, lowest pay and the crappiest exchange rate in order to get a job.

Re:Are Indian workers *that* much cheaper? (1)

mgrassi99 (514152) | more than 8 years ago | (#12749770)

You know that certainly has a better ring to it.

Re:Are Indian workers *that* much cheaper? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#12749817)

They had contributed back. The OOS people chose a particular license. Apple followed said license and did everything required by it. OSS people got upset as they wanted more. Apple have now gone way over and above what is required and provided this.

Supply & Demand (2, Insightful)

Vicissidude (878310) | more than 8 years ago | (#12749731)

With the supply for workers holding these skills staying the same while the demand increases, that means Indian wages will shoot up. Considering that companies only save about 10-20% by going to India, you can bet offshoring to India will cool off. That's great news for US workers.

Re:Supply & Demand (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#12749760)

No it isn't. It just means that India is becoming too modern and businesses will just find a crappier country with worse wages to outsource to.

Re:Supply & Demand (1)

Vicissidude (878310) | more than 8 years ago | (#12749954)

The major attraction of moving to India in the first place is that they speak English. Granted, it's hard to understand English, but it's still English.

Other countries that charge less for IT services can't make these English claims and would be that much harder for companies to offshore to. For example, programmers in Vietnam charge half of the India rate, but don't have the same English skills as India.

Re:Supply & Demand (2, Interesting)

tekiegreg (674773) | more than 8 years ago | (#12749975)

It's been happening to some extent already. I remember when you could find an Indian programming contractor for $15/hr (This would be a good programmer with a decent programming skillset). Nowadays it's about $20/hr which is approaching the low-end of U.S. Programmers now. Granted you can find low-end U.S. programmers now about $25/hr from my epxerience. In fact at that point is it worth the extra overhead and inconvenience of having your programmers that far away? Hmmmmm.....

Re:Are Indian workers *that* much cheaper? (1)

ninja_assault_kitten (883141) | more than 8 years ago | (#12749735)

Or hire Mexicans.

Re:Are Indian workers *that* much cheaper? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#12749804)

Or hire Mexicans.

It's un-PC to say so, but Mexico doesn't have the pool of highly-skilled and educated workers that India has.

Re:Are Indian workers *that* much cheaper? (2, Insightful)

mislam (755292) | more than 8 years ago | (#12749758)

IT companies particularly in Bangalore offer high pay scale and lots of benefits. The scale compared to the US is measly but by the living standards in India it is indeed very high. Cheaper is a relative term. Cheaper comparing to US standard? Yes, but definitely not cheap comparing to local standard.

Re:Are Indian workers *that* much cheaper? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#12749960)

Exactly. Paying about Rs 20000 a month to the IT guys translates to $460 a month, or $5,513 a year. This is the usual amount of money that techies get here. The top ones may get five times as much, but I think it is still low by US standards.
And of course, there are less rules here about "health benefits", etc. In fact, most of the IT workers here lead pathetic lives --- most of them work more than 15 hours a day, etc. (On an unrelated note, the call centre workers are even more miserable --- they get paid A LOT less, and they have to work at odd hours of the night because of the time zones.)
But still, it's a lot more money --- for instance, someone working at a clerical or officer level in a bank may get that much money, or someone who has been a professor for many years. Land rates have gone up in Bangalore, mainly because the IT guys are so much richer than the others.

Re:Are Indian workers *that* much cheaper? (1)

WayHomer (461880) | more than 8 years ago | (#12749902)

To attract new workers in India and people (as many as 120k) to India, wouldn't they need to offer better benefits, less taxes, higher pay, etc? At that point, wouldn't it make more sense to bring the work back to this side of the ocean?

They'll make it up with volume.

FP (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#12749633)

and I just created this account, too!

one word: (3, Funny)

dlefavor (725930) | more than 8 years ago | (#12749644)

karma

"Preferred form" BS (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#12749908)

The "preferred form" of most Apple developers is probably some versioning system running as a client on G5 workstations, so obviously Apple is legally obligated to provide the changed source code to KHTML developers in that form. Go sign on to the KHTML project now and your free G5 will be shipped soon!/p

Question: what happened to Michael Sims? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#12749646)

Was he fired or what? Why has everyone at OSTG been so quiet about it?

Re:Question: what happened to Michael Sims? (1)

PMJ2kx (828679) | more than 8 years ago | (#12749713)

He got outsourced because of his skills...or lack thereof.

Dear India: (4, Funny)

phyruxus (72649) | more than 8 years ago | (#12749648)

My resume is on my web page.

But seriously - where can you get considered ? (1)

rjordan (640052) | more than 8 years ago | (#12749907)

where are these recruitments ads for Indian jobs - I for one would love to work somewhere new... but I don't see the ads...

Re:Dear India: (4, Funny)

RealAlaskan (576404) | more than 8 years ago | (#12749949)

My resume is on my web page.

And it says:

Languages:
C/C++, Perl, Lisp, Java,
Visual Basic, HTML,
CGI-scripting, DOS Batch.
Sorry, none of those are ``European'' languages. You're screwed.

hmm (2, Funny)

compro01 (777531) | more than 8 years ago | (#12749652)

i guess they're gonna need to outsource back over to this side of the ocean.

Re:hmm (1)

sheridan3003 (165213) | more than 8 years ago | (#12749728)

How Sad that they may have to actually outsource some work. Maybe once they outsource back to us we can show them how to do it properly!

Not as good for USA/Europe as you think... (1)

digitalamish (449285) | more than 8 years ago | (#12749781)

This just means that India will outsource to even cheaper labor markets. They are already sending work to China. I don't think we'll see jobs 'onshoring' very soon.

Without wishing to sound too fanboyish... (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#12749823)

...good stuff, good stuff. It seems they actually do care about how the open source community perceives them. And it can only do them good to remain on good terms with the Konqueror/KHTML team.

That said, some of the criticisms of the Konqueror team may have had some validity - specifically, there is little room in the cutthroat commercial arena for the unwavering dogmatism, devotion to absolute technical superiority over immediate user needs, etc. Hopefully the two can forge a way forward together now that Apple has made this (much needed) gesture.

iqu :)

Re:hmm (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#12749932)

This whole mess started when Zack Rusin blogged saying (basically) -
* don't keep bugging us about when Konqueror will do what Safari does because it's not as simple as taking Apple's patches and applying them
* don't keep saying how great it is that Apple are giving us these features

He explicitly said that it was fine for Apple to behave as they were. He just asked that people didn't keep giving Apple credit for doing things that actually needed to be done independently by the KHTML team.

The mess started when multiple news websites and bloggers misreported this as an anti-Apple flame and subsequently seemed to base their articles on each others, not the original post.

Schadenfreude? (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#12749655)

Please, refrain.

Wait for it... (-1, Flamebait)

Lally Singh (3427) | more than 8 years ago | (#12749657)

...confused...slashdot...racism...

Re:Wait for it... (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#12749691)

How about a big tall cup of F U?

Re:Wait for it... (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#12749767)

shut it ya paki.

ROFLs (1, Insightful)

brickballs (839527) | more than 8 years ago | (#12749662)


I dont know about anybody else, but I find it freaking hilarious that they need more people to handle all the jobs that we outsourced over there.

Re:ROFLs (2, Insightful)

FirstTimeCaller (521493) | more than 8 years ago | (#12749741)

I dont know about anybody else, but I find it freaking hilarious that they need more people to handle all the jobs that we outsourced over there.

No. Not particularly...

The fact that India is getting more work than they can handle (for the moment) does not make me smile. Quite the opposite in fact.

Re:ROFLs (2, Interesting)

JWW (79176) | more than 8 years ago | (#12749943)

What the shortage in India says to me is that businesses are all so caught up in getting on the next bandwagon that they always go wayyy overboard.

What was particularly appealing to them wrt oursourcing was that businesses were so mad at themselves for overdoing things during the internet boom that they were more than happy to overdo their "revenge" on the workforce.

Re:ROFLs (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#12749755)

Just more proof that the global economy provides challenges and opportunities for every country that participates and that things aren't always as black-and-white as some would have us believe.

Re:ROFLs (1)

MagicDude (727944) | more than 8 years ago | (#12749779)

The problem isn't that they don't have enough english speakers, the problem is that they don't have enough spanish, italian, french, german, etc speakers. English is very prevelant over there. My parents have told me that their highschool classes were taught in english. My father is constantly asked if he was born in England based upon his diction and pronouncation.

Good show Apple (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#12749815)

Despite liking OS X and the now-defunct power-PC platform (though still preferring GNU/Linux on both PPC and AMD64), and having switched a number of people from Windoze to OS X, I have not been shy about being critical, even scathingly so, of Apple when they deserve it.

The deserved it in no small degree when they made it difficult for KHTML developers to reintegrate their changes into the mainline tree.

However, I am glad to see they responded to the community's criticisms in such a constructive manner. This is good for everybody. It's good for KHTML, as Apple's improvements can now be integrated cleanly into the mainline tree, and it is good for Apple, both on the PR/Community Relations front, and on the technical front, as they can continue to benefit from developments in KTHML and their porting burden should, at least theortecially, be lessened as their changes make it back into the main development tree.

Good show, Apple. Few flesh-and-blood people would have the character to admit a mae culpa and change their ways. For corporations, this is even more rare. This doesn't change my skepticism WRT the move to Intel (though if it is a move to AMD64 said skepticism is alleviated, and if the move is a result of supply issues with IBM, said move is understandable despite my skepticism, but I digress), but it is reassuring to see positive movements on other fronts.

Re:ROFLs (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#12749909)

But wait... what is KHTML going to complain about now!

Would Apple have done this had they not complained?

Get out your keyboards. . . (4, Funny)

Nomihn0 (739701) | more than 8 years ago | (#12749665)

Looks like the jobs may be moving to India but they might require the original people to do some of the jobs!

Ah, the joys of documenting others' code.

Re:Get out your keyboards. . . (1)

Shazow (263582) | more than 8 years ago | (#12749694)

Well, in all technicality, if the job was outsourced from someone, then outsourced back to the same person, then said person would be documenting the person's own code.

Joy indeed. :-)

Sorry USA... (4, Insightful)

rsidd (6328) | more than 8 years ago | (#12749666)

Looks like the jobs may be moving to India but they might require the original people to do some of the jobs!

Given that non-English language skills are the problem, Americans are still out of luck...

Word ! (1)

AtariAmarok (451306) | more than 8 years ago | (#12749703)

"Given that non-English language skills are the problem, Americans are still out of luck..."

Like, d00d, whatchu talkin bout?

Re:Word ! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#12749826)

a) Apple released the source before
b) they've just added additional ways of accessing the source instead of a giant tarball

Re:Sorry USA... (2, Funny)

ewg (158266) | more than 8 years ago | (#12749774)

Ya, if dey need somebuddy withan upper Grea' Lakes accent, I'm der man, eh?

Re:Sorry USA... (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#12749813)

Would Apple have done this had they not complained?

would they they have known it was a problem?

if a tree falls on a hippie in the forest, does anyone care?

we can go on like this all day. Grandparents point is that apple is going out of their way to appease a relatively small (even in opensource terms) group of people. Kudos to them.

Madras in da Moonlight (1)

AtariAmarok (451306) | more than 8 years ago | (#12749835)

"Ya, if dey need somebuddy withan upper Grea' Lakes accent, I'm der man, eh?"

Hey! A real live Yooper! (if you have no idea, just talk like Bob and Doug MacKenzie. It is close enough).

Re:Sorry USA... (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#12749983)

What are you talking about? Wasn't it only in the last month that KHTML was successfully able to integrate half the changes/patches provided from Apple into their trunk?

Getting half the patches in sounds like an advantage, especially compared to none, which is what would be the case if Apple had not adopted KHTML, right? So in the end, prior to this advance, KHTML gained lots of work, and Apple gained lots of work, and thus both had already benefited.

Hmmm (4, Funny)

puppetman (131489) | more than 8 years ago | (#12749670)

To combat the labour shortage, India should outsource the work to North America and Europe. Lots of surplus labour. And the way wages are climbing in India, the West might be able to do it cheaper.

One way ticket (4, Insightful)

dfn5 (524972) | more than 8 years ago | (#12749679)

I see a problem with this. I knew people who moved to America from Brazil, worked at McDonalds for a few years, and went home rich. If we Americans go to India to work we'll be stuck there because we won't be able to afford to move back.

Re:One way ticket (1)

WoBIX (819410) | more than 8 years ago | (#12749927)

Wow, in order to have saving from working at McDonalds you'd have to live in squalor for a couple of years. Or at least share a place with half a dozen roommates.

Were they living in really small towns where the rent was cheap, or larger urban centers and putting up with slum living?

Re:One way ticket (1)

rjordan (640052) | more than 8 years ago | (#12749947)

I seriously doubt ANYONE made it rich my any standards working in McDonald's... I know the math and stuff - but you still have to live somewhere and eat while you are here... you knew people or you knew of people?

Any standards? (1)

AtariAmarok (451306) | more than 8 years ago | (#12749995)

"I seriously doubt ANYONE made it rich by any standards working in McDonald's"

The average American McDonald's worker is rich by the standards of many, if not most, foreign countries.

Re:One way ticket (1)

pla (258480) | more than 8 years ago | (#12749976)

If we Americans go to India to work we'll be stuck there because we won't be able to afford to move back.

I fail to see the problem, if we'll have a comparable (or better) standard of living there... Finally a good chance to escape the ship before it completely goes down!


Squeek Squeek, baby!


Hmm, I wonder if Hindu zealots seem as annoying as Fundies/NeoCons....

Irony (1)

MattWhitworth (858990) | more than 8 years ago | (#12749680)

It'll be those Indian guys complaining about outsourcing next ;) What goes around comes around I reckon :)

Re:Irony (1)

Kainaw (676073) | more than 8 years ago | (#12749935)

It'll be those Indian guys complaining about outsourcing next

They already are. There has been past articles here on /. about Chinese and Indian workers complaining about outsourcing to Indonesia and Africa. It seems that no matter where you are, there is someone willing to do your job for less pay.

They will (0)

Sv-Manowar (772313) | more than 8 years ago | (#12749693)

They will be able to stem the problem by controlling the emigration of the skilled workers for a while, or offering higher wages for them back at home. Although it may not completely solve it, as the jobs come with the benefit of seeing the rest of the world, and living in a possibly better country than the people feel they are at the moment.

This coming on the day General Motors are cutting 125k jobs and moving more of them overseas, it's all a bit worrying

India Outsourcing? (1)

neoform (551705) | more than 8 years ago | (#12749696)

So what now? India is going to start outsourcing? Like say american workers? haha

then it'd be like american companies are outsourcing to india, who are inturn outsourcing to americans!

Business plan. (3, Interesting)

team99parody (880782) | more than 8 years ago | (#12749701)

I keep thinking I should hire some random guy in India (doesn't need to know computers - just have a phone # in india) to be the "CEO" of my own personal consulting company and sell consulting services to the local businesses. When large companies buy our services, I then hire a bunch of the unemployed silicon valley .com victims for minimum wage to do the actual work.

Benefits all around

  • Layed off .com programmers are cheaper than Indian workers.
  • Layed off .com programmers are in the same time-zone so can service the clients better.
  • Indian CEO is cheaper than US CEO.
  • Indian Headquarters makes big companies more likely to sign up.

Re:Business plan. (1)

winkydink (650484) | more than 8 years ago | (#12749850)

Minimum wage and Silicon Valley resident are mutually exclusive. Median home price in Santa Clara Country is north of $650k

English-speaking language skills in short supply (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#12749706)

English-speaking language skills could also be in short supply.

I find this hard to believe considering the proficiency in English I see evidenced in the average Indian help desk I've frequented. I'd venture to say some of them speak even more weller than some Slashdot editors.

Re:English-speaking language skills in short suppl (2, Funny)

Billy the Mountain (225541) | more than 8 years ago | (#12749841)

I'd venture to say some of them speak even more weller than some Slashdot editors.

I agree, except for more authenticity, I would have written it: "...some of them speak even more weller then some Slashdot editors.

BTM

I'm packing now. (1)

RobFrontier (550029) | more than 8 years ago | (#12749709)

I'm moving to India now!! I here the housing market is unbeatable, and since I'll never be able to afford a house in FLagstaff, why not? Do I need shots or anything? Needles scare me.

India housing market (1)

AtariAmarok (451306) | more than 8 years ago | (#12749751)

"I'm moving to India now!! I here the housing market is unbeatable"

Here [gimcracker.com] . It's all yours. Just send me $300. Nice neighborhood; and quiet as a tomb, it is!

Turnabout is fair play (1)

alvinrod (889928) | more than 8 years ago | (#12749766)

Your Dell PC has a problem. You call Dell's 1-800 number for customer support. Because it is cheaper to pay people to do tech support overseas, your call is routed to India. Because there are not enough skilled people in India to handle your call, it is routed back to the United States where an English speaking individual fields your call.

How hard would it be to just route the call to the house of a tech support person. You could offer them a decent wage and the freedom to work from their own home. Just have them take a 3 month class on how to trouble shoot most problems. It shouldn't be so hard since almost any problem you call with involves reinstalling windows. Hell, a machine could do it for less.

I think people would be happier with customer service if it spoke the same language, even if it was the same pointless suggestion to fix your problems.

Re:Turnabout is fair play (1)

AtariAmarok (451306) | more than 8 years ago | (#12749788)

"Your Dell PC has a problem"

How did you know? This is downright uncanny!

Re:Turnabout is fair play (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#12749867)

Grandparents point is that apple is going out of their way to appease a relatively small (even in opensource terms) group of people.
For god's sake, are you retarded? Did your parents repeatedly slam your head in a brick wall when you were younger?
The "relatively small group of people" you're talking about are the ones who created the base core of Safari's rendering engine (KHTML) for fuck's sake. And if you had at least checked what happened, you'd have seen that the K guys had indeed asked (privately, not in public channels) for limited access to Apple's Safari repository and bug tracker before...

Re:Turnabout is fair play (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#12749883)

Don't be silly; most of Dell's support calls are now routed to South America, where it is cheaper to hire people than India!

Re:Turnabout is fair play (1)

peculiarmethod (301094) | more than 8 years ago | (#12749986)

Op: "Hello, this is Dell, Inc. My name is Rashad, I will be your technical advisor for this phone call, how may I help you? *whispers* help! help, for the love of God. I am being held captive and put to work for no pay. I need your help for emancipation, and it is simple. I have an account from my father with 1.5 million which is locked away until I can come up with 1500.."

Re:Turnabout is fair play (1)

generic-man (33649) | more than 8 years ago | (#12749934)

I had a Compaq laptop until early last year. After the HP-Compaq merger in 2002, all the support got outsourced. When I called during the day or in the early evening I got routed to India. It gets better: when I called late at night (like 1:00 AM EST) I got routed to people in Canada. British Columbia to be specific.

Apparently HP hires help desk people specifically to work the night shift. I thought that graveyard shifts cost more.

Language skills (1, Informative)

techstar25 (556988) | more than 8 years ago | (#12749768)

'India faces a massive shortage of workers with European language skills'
Judging on the speech of the person who answered the last time I called tech support they don't seem be too strict about the "European language skills" part.

There's a good reason for it (1)

ivoras (455934) | more than 8 years ago | (#12749773)

The high cost of life in western countries is just awful - it makes A LOT sense to move to a country where food, water and housing is cheap.

Even the "luxury" stuff electricity and Internet access is becoming cheap in new and developing countries, simply because they don't have all that old copper to dig out first.

Re:There's a good reason for it (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#12749816)

I guess after switching to x86, Apple felt it needed to do something not-evil to balance things out.


MWHAHAHAHA (3, Insightful)

AKAImBatman (238306) | more than 8 years ago | (#12749778)

It looks like the supply end of the curve is dropping as the demand curve goes up. Before you know it, this could result in an increasing cost of outsourced workers. Combined with the exact opposite curve in the countries doing the outsourcing (i.e. low demand == lower cost workers), a balance will soon have to be struck that will again restore tech workers to a thriving market in both America/Europe and India. No, there's not going to be another "tech boom". That's over with.

I have to say that I found the article rather amusing, as I've ran up against many of the "English speaking" Indian call centers. (I'm looking at you Citibank.)

Q: What do you get when you mix an Indian accent with the British flavor of English?
A: Something completely incomprehensible to an American.

It's amazing how many cues exist in the accents we use in our language. American English is actually quite forgiving of foreign accents, but it frustrates me to no end trying to understand the Indian on the other end. It's not that he has an Indian accent. The reps actually tend to speak English quite well. The problem is that the slight Indian accent completely throws off the British accent (which most Americans are unaccustomed to anyway) and makes it very difficult to comprehend their speach. Add the quality of a telephone connection on the mix and you've got a communications disaster far worse than the bored utterances of the previous Floridians. (Who were no shining examples of pretty speech themselves.)

Ok, I'm done complaining. I'm sure I'll soon be hearing from all manners of Indians, British, and Floridians who all feel slighted just because I had a bad customer support experience. Cheerio! :-)

Re:MWHAHAHAHA (1)

CaseyB (1105) | more than 8 years ago | (#12749938)

Before you know it, this could result in an increasing cost of outsourced workers.

Don't hold your breath. There's a whole second-order wave of tech outsourcing just now staring -- this time in China. And it will be many years before all the wages there rise high enough to be prohibitive.

And then there's still Africa, after that...

Solution for Tokyo (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#12749792)

The Tokyo Geek Ghetto [slashdot.org] citizens can transfer to India so they can have a better place to call their own. Screw the European Language Skills.... They are well learners.

pretty nervy sales pitch for India (1, Interesting)

yagu (721525) | more than 8 years ago | (#12749799)

From the article:

warned that only a small percentage of the two million English-speaking graduates per year turned out by Indian universities actually have good enough English to work in customer-facing offshore operations.

I don't know what to make of India's "taking" of the market the way they have. And, I don't know who to blame. But, I do know:

  • India definitely has not solved or stepped up to solving the "English" problem. Of the last ten support calls I've made to any company (not just computers), I'd guess I was talking to someone in India nine of those calls, and of those nine times, not one time was I able to carry on any kind of reasonable communication with my "support"! (And, working in technology, I've actually been complimented on my better-than-average ability to understand people with heavy accents! Sadly, this doesn't always translate nicely to phone conversations.)
  • Companies outsourcing support have glossed over any consideration of customer support and/or satisfaction in favor of perceived "large" savings. I see this as incredibly short-sighted, but maybe not "fightable", as it appears everyone is going this route.

I guess I blame India for short-sheeting the buying public claiming to provide "equal" services for far less cost... It's disingenuous at best, downright unethical otherwise. I'm guessing they'll have similar level of service for non-English European countries.... Heaven help those consumers when they start making calls for help.

I guess I blame corporations for "bottom-line" decision making over customer satisfaction.

Sidebar: Does anyone wonder why, if India can provide "equal" service... for far less money (i.e., "phone" support) why "phone" services like 911 haven't been sent overseas? I don't.

Sidebar 2: Suggestion: if you do need support for something, I can't suggest strongly enough... keep calling, and hanging up until you get someone who you can easily understand (NOTE: that could end up being someone in India, but empirical data suggest otherwise)... Maybe if we all did that, the skew would be back to English speaking support.

Re:pretty nervy sales pitch for India (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#12749895)


Hey Taco, better change the Apple section's "G5" logo to the Intel logo.

Pakistan is Next Hotspot (2, Funny)

FathomIT (464334) | more than 8 years ago | (#12749830)

Pakistan is filling the gap and rapidly becoming the next hotspot for labor outsourcing.


Globalism is great. Eventually Africa will be used as it really is the last spot of untapped labor (although a tad risky at the moment).

Dilbert (1)

iammrjvo (597745) | more than 8 years ago | (#12749853)


It reminds me of that Dilbert where his company outsourced their work to India, who outsourced it to Romania, who outsourced it to Mexico, who outsourced it back to the original company.

Re:Dilbert (1)

fishbowl (7759) | more than 8 years ago | (#12749910)


>It reminds me of that Dilbert

If it happened in a Dilbert strip, something very close to it probably really happened at someplace like MCI or Exxon.

Plan B (2, Interesting)

Doc Ruby (173196) | more than 8 years ago | (#12749882)

The foreign workers will cost less working in India by serving the rest of their life with cheap Indian labor. This is how the entire economy of a country like England or the US gets "outsourced" to India. Because soon enough, the foreign workers will drain the local nontech labor pool of its best workers to serve them, and more people will need to be imported. It's almost as damaging to the local, less skilled, labor pool as it is to the foreign economies cherry picked for its workers. While the transplants ramp up India's economy, many of its globally competitive advantages, like unfettered environmental destruction and labor commoditization, will eventually catch these migrant workers short.

Maybe it's time we just fill a "B Ark" [bbc.co.uk] with service personnel, and turn this brain drain to our advantage.

just go back home (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#12749889)

Maybe all the indians in the US can just go back home. That would solve labor issues in the US and in India.

Instigation of phase II a success (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#12749890)

So now that the free trade advocates have made a solid foothold in countries wherelivng conditions are the poorest possibel without being completely sub human, they will take the steps to make first world countries competitive with these markets.

I see arguments rising that the US and europe will need to lower their expectations and excesses within the working class so to compete with these "more efficient and enthusiastic workers overseas".

Phase three will entail the outsourcing from india to 3rd world countries that even now are being introduced to the technology age with highly inexpensive computers to prepare for a shift of the IT industry to sub-service industry wages.

Worker's Paradise (1)

Doc Ruby (173196) | more than 8 years ago | (#12749917)

Isn't it sad that a "third world" country of a billion people has a government with a labor policy that can create a surplus demand for tech workers in the hundreds of thousands, while America's got hundreds of thousands of un- and under-employed tech workers, without a competitive labor policy?

Okay, let me do the math (1)

syntap (242090) | more than 8 years ago | (#12749922)

If I was making $50/hour and my job was outsourced at $25, then the outsourcing company can rehire me at $20 to remain profitable? That's only a 60% paycut for having your old job back... why the fuss?

Sounds great! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#12749926)

Now if I chase down that foreign language proficiency, add it to my programming proficiency, and go live and work in a third world country (yeah, I said third, deal with it), I'll really be living the American dream. Yay!

I'm not going to even bother reading the (1)

MisanthropicProgram (763655) | more than 8 years ago | (#12749981)

article!

ZDNet India is reporting that 'India faces a massive shortage of workers with European language skills over the next five years which could see the country needing to recruit up to 120,000 foreigners...

Everytime a "journalist" says that there's shortage, I immediately become suspicious. These people said that there was a "shortage" of programmers and it would last until, what, 2010? And yet there's still a bunch of us who had to get jobs at Home Depot. These folks are saying that there's a "shortage" of nurses. But a few years ago, nurses where being laid-off because of managed care. WTF!
What I'm saying is, these folks are just spewing the shit they're getting from PR firms and reporting it as news.

Here's something that I really love. A friend of mine was approached by a guy to start a "school" for nurses. He wanted to recruit people from Africa (I don't why Africa - I guess a lot of foreign nurses are from Africa especially Nigeria)and then train them as nurses to help with the nursing "shortage". My friend, bless her, said "When working conditions and pay are IMPROVED FOR NURSES, I MAY help you, until then I do not believe there's a "shortage".

I'm hearing more and more people (even from IT) training to become nurses because of the increased salaries.

I think this article is just a PR ploy to screw their own (Indians) people!

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