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550 comments

Fedora Core 4 is great... (5, Informative)

coop0030 (263345) | more than 8 years ago | (#12803355)

I actually just did a new dual-boot install of Fedora Core 4, and Windows XP, and found Fedora Core 4 (the beta is the one I installed this past weekend) about 10 times easier to install than Windows XP. It was incredibly easier to configure after the installation, also.

Here is that commentary about my process (I am a first-time user of Linux):
http://www.mygadgetbag.com/MGBCommentary/tabid/183 /ctl/ArticleView/mid/575/articleId/319/Dualbooting WindowsXPandLinux.aspx [mygadgetbag.com]

Also, for anyone wondering, here is a link to the newest updates that are in Fedora Core 4:
http://fedora.redhat.com/docs/release-notes/fc4/#s n-new-in-fc [redhat.com]

I am very happy with Fedora Core 4 (beta) after using it for a few days. The only thing I am having trouble with is connecting to the Yum repositories, as described on the Fedora FAQ.

The main Fedora site is updated now, also!

Re:Fedora Core 4 is great... (0, Troll)

Seumas (6865) | more than 8 years ago | (#12803388)

I don't know . . . I think I still prefer my linux from a non commercial entity that isn't just throwing me bits and pieces to test as a guinea-pig for their corporate product.

I haven't used RedHat since 1997, but after the whole "enterprise" thing followed by the "fedora" program, I don't think I ever will.

Besides, there's so many other excellent distros out there, as long as you aren't hung-up with "but red hat is corporate, so we need to use it in our business!" thing.

Re:Fedora Core 4 is great... (5, Insightful)

Iriel (810009) | more than 8 years ago | (#12803436)

While I can understand the desire to feel a little more control than being a 'test subject', some of that just comes with the territory of Linux/OSS in my mind. While I don't claim to speak for everyone, how often do you use OSS that isn't in some form of testing stage. For me and most of the developers I know, by the time a new stable version comes out, the new beta has about 4 new features, a better GUI, forum threads on fixing beta bugs, or any combination. I like having almost every option at my disposal. Besides, who doesn't like the hearing about someone using a 'new' program and telling them, "Oh I've been working with that since the alpha!"

Re:Fedora Core 4 is great... (2, Interesting)

rpdillon (715137) | more than 8 years ago | (#12803475)

Well, then Red Hat is taking all the steps you would like! They're slowly (but surely) spinning off Fedora Core into its own foundation, ever more differentiated from Red Hat the company.

Good for them, I say. I have the opposite opinion to yours, which is I actually *like* having a few corporate desktop-centric distros out there to balance out the huge collection of Free distros. Anyway, give them a couple of years. I expect Fedora will eventually be quite similar to Debian at some point - not nearly as tied up in corporate image as it becomes more the product of a non-profit foundation.

Re:Fedora Core 4 is great... (0, Troll)

Iriel (810009) | more than 8 years ago | (#12803511)

A couple of years? I thought the only difference between Fedora and Debian was .rpm and .deb?

Re:Fedora Core 4 is great... (4, Informative)

LDoggg_ (659725) | more than 8 years ago | (#12803481)

I don't know . . . I think I still prefer my linux from a non commercial entity that isn't just throwing me bits and pieces to test as a guinea-pig for their corporate product.

Bits and pieces to test?
Nice troll, the distro has been solid and getting better each release.

I haven't used RedHat since 1997, but after the whole "enterprise" thing followed by the "fedora" program, I don't think I ever will.

Well, since you havent used it since 1997, you have no idea what you are talking about.
You're missing out, I HAVE been using it since 1997. With the exception of a few releases (redhat 6.0 ,7.0,7.1) its been a great distro. I haven't had any problems with the fedora core releases. I was a little upset that FC3 had a few packages removed, but they made it back into FC4

Re:Fedora Core 4 is great... (3, Interesting)

udderly (890305) | more than 8 years ago | (#12803619)

I hear a lot of people complaining that FC sucks, but that hasn't been my experience. I've been using FC1 since it came out to run backups on an internal network and over vpn. It often has more than 30 concurrent connections. Currently it has been up for 178 days w/o reboot.

Try OpenSolaris. (4, Informative)

Martin Marvinski (581860) | more than 8 years ago | (#12803615)

OpenSolaris is coming out at the end of June. OpenSolaris is basically Solaris 10 in source code form. The license is the CDDL which is basically the Mozilla Public License with restrictions removed .

http://www.opensolaris.org/faq/licensing_faq.html [opensolaris.org]

Anyone can create an OpenSolaris distro, in fact the guy who created cdrecord for linux (Joerg Schilling) is creating one called SchilliX.

http://schillix.berlios.de/ [berlios.de]

The great thing about OpenSolaris is that it is the opensourcing of Solaris 10 which means it has all the features and stability of that Operating system. It also has features that Fedora Core or linux don't have.

An example is DTrace. With DTrace, one can specify sensors in Solaris 10 and monitor everything. Even user programs.

You also have Zones in OpenSolaris which are like BSD jails, but are easier to maintain and create. Linux has user mode linux, but that is cumbersome compared to Zones.

SMF in OpenSolaris is questionable in benefit, but it allows services to be restarted automatically if they fail. Not something I'm interested in, but some people may like it.

But if you are unhappy with the bleeding edge of Fedora Core, give OpenSolaris a look when it comes out later this month.

Re:Fedora Core 4 is great... (3, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#12803442)

Yes,
But Windows XP came out (I think) before all of the nForce2 malarky. This gives it a large dis-advantage. Until recently, I would always have a nightmare trying to install debian on to an nForce2 board. I would need to install a separate network card to start it working. I still use the nvidia graphics driver.

You may correctly claim that this is one advantage that linux distro's have over windows due to the regular(ish) updates. But most hardware ships with windows drivers. The same cannot be said for Linux.

Re:Fedora Core 4 is great... (0, Offtopic)

killtherat (177924) | more than 8 years ago | (#12803642)

What is the 'malarky' you speak of?

I have a nForce2 based mother board. Thing seems stable, right up to the moment you try to install the nVidia drivers, then it doesn't seem to be able to go half an hour without freezing.

Re:Fedora Core 4 is great... (3, Interesting)

Rei (128717) | more than 8 years ago | (#12803472)

I've been very pleased with Fedora 4t2, which I've been running for a while, with apt4rpm instead of yum as my package acquisition method. My only real complaint is that when they say that you can use reiserfs but they don't support it, they mean that "it doesn't work".

I figured out some tricks to make it work, though: boot with commandline "linux reiserfs selinux=0". That'll stop the installation of the init package from failing like it would if you left of the selinux=0 line (and no, disabling selinux during the install setup doesn't work). Then, after boot, you'll get a grub error. Boot instead with a boot disk. Copy your kernel image (not move - you need it to be rewritten), delete the original copy, and then copy it back. Your system should be bootable. At least, this all worked for me. :)

Re:Fedora Core 4 is great... (3, Insightful)

NipsMG (656301) | more than 8 years ago | (#12803499)

You have GOT to be kidding me.

10 times easier than windows XP?

I think Windows XP installer asks for a grand total for 3 inputs. Computer Name, User Name, and Time Zone.

You bitch about having to download SP2, yet you're installing the most recent version of an operating system (Fedora core 4) against an old version of XP (XP sans SP2, yes you can buy xp with sp2 included). If you installed Fedora Core 3 and wanted to update it to the newest version, you'd have a butload of updating to do also.

If you're not using DHCP, you'd definitely have to manually set up a network connection in ANY OS. Which is very confusing to anyone not familiar with any os.

The fact that your stuff didn't work off the bat is probably because it's specialized hardware, or something very non-standard that probably came with a driver disk for that purpose. If you lost it how is that XP's fault?

I'm not saying Fedora Core 4 isn't easy to install, but don't overdo it.

Re:Fedora Core 4 is great... (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#12803534)

>>10 times easier than windows XP?
>>I think Windows XP installer asks for a grand total for 3 inputs. Computer Name, User Name, and Time Zone.

No, really. Fedora only asks for three-tenths of a prompt for input.

Re:Fedora Core 4 is great... (2, Insightful)

Iriel (810009) | more than 8 years ago | (#12803558)

Yeah, I'll admit also, M$ makes some really simple installers, but there is one point to consider:

The extra minutes you spend setting up before your first login can help ease the amount of mucking around later to change prefs.

Re:Fedora Core 4 is great... (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#12803566)

You conveniently forget that installing Windows does just that, install Windows.

No apps, no security updates, a lot of drivers missing, etc.

Now compare that with the install of a modern Linux distro. See the difference?

Driver disc (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#12803574)

Well, here we have it. YOU lost the driver disc, it is all YOUR fault!

If just Linux would have a system to recognise hardware and tell you what module to enable/compile, way more users would start using linux.

Throw away the driver discs, microsoft doesn't make the drivers, the least they can do is provide them with their os.

*windows installer is great! Too bad you have to go trough it every 6 months.

Re:Driver disc (1)

RupW (515653) | more than 8 years ago | (#12803643)

Throw away the driver discs, microsoft doesn't make the drivers, the least they can do is provide them with their os.

They do, sort of.

The problem is the long release/testing cycle that major Windows releases go through means that all the bundled drivers are six months old. If your hardware is six months older than the latest service pack, and the manufacturer has WHQL drivers, then Windows should automatically recognise the hardware.

Re:Fedora Core 4 is great... (4, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#12803591)

Well unless you consider SATA to be specialized hardware, Fedora handles it with no problem...with XP you need a driver disk for the SATA controller to even start the install. This was even using a disc slipstreamed with SP2.

Re:Fedora Core 4 is great... (1)

coop0030 (263345) | more than 8 years ago | (#12803616)

You have to be kidding ME!

How many people do you know that have access to a new version of Windows XP that have to do a re-install of their software? I am talking about people that have owned their computers for a while.

If I want to reinstall Windows I can NOT just go download the latest distro of Windows XP like I can Linux (for free to boot)!

I was using DHCP, I have a very basic setup, with a standard motherboard (nforce, how more common can that get?) and a direct connection from a cable modem?

Now consider this...If I am a basic computer user trying to install either of these setups, and Linux configures everything for me right off the bat, and I have to spend an hour of searching for drivers (how many Joe Shmoes actually know where all their original discs are?) on the internet with Windows XP...and the Linux install is secure off the bat...which would you suggest to your Mother/Grandmother?

Re:Fedora Core 4 is great... (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#12803688)

10 times easier than windows XP? I think Windows XP installer asks for a grand total for 3 inputs. Computer Name, User Name, and Time Zone.

Sure it does. After two reboots and, as usual with windows, it spreads the questioning half way through the install, meaning that unattended installing is a nightmare. Oh, and if you need to change keyboard/language it's a few more questions than that

It might not actually be ten times as difficult to install, MS only manged to make it feel ten times as bloody tedious. With Fedora I answer all the questions up front, and then I can leave. If I don't have to change CDs (e.g. network install) I'll come back to a freshly installed machine. Not so with windows. Two bloody reboots.

And btw that's not just the install, and not just MS but damn near all software that runs on windows. I'll bloody lose it if I have to live through a 'I just remounted the view that you asked me to remount every bloody time I boot the OS and I'll just hang here and wait for you to click "OK" before I'll even continue booting.' I swear I'll take a chair to the helpdesk next time there's an hour long 'update' that requires me to sit at my computer and press 'OK' (often the only choice) every ten bloody minutes, or the install won't go through (including two reboots in the process). I could have actually done something useful with that time, hell I could even have been in a meeting and felt more useful, but no. According to MS we'd all rather be computer operators, sitting attentively at our consoles, answering promptly whenever our service is called for. That's the wrong bloddy way around.

Re:Fedora Core 4 is great... (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#12803506)

I have systems running FC3 and OS X Tiger. As easy as Tiger is to use, I can till you i still that Fedora is easier to configure. I still cannot get direct printer support with Tiger with my Samsung Laser Printer. I have to direct it through my Fedora box as a postscript printer. Similarly, the SMB browsing in Tiger is quite clumsy to use. You have to remember the name of the server and shares. I'm surprised apple has not done much in this area.

Re:Fedora Core 4 is great... (2, Informative)

shaitand (626655) | more than 8 years ago | (#12803567)

Just a note, a glance shows you have a dual boot for WoW. WoW runs flawlessly under Point2Play http://www.transgaming.com/ [transgaming.com]

Be sure to read the forums. The game will run fine using DirectX emulation, but OpenGL mode is much faster. Using OpenGL mode I get faster framerates than I do on a XP pro system using the same settings and hardware. YMMV.

Slashdot editors suck a big cock. (-1, Troll)

Armands Leimanis (890215) | more than 8 years ago | (#12803356)

Slashdot is yet again the epitomy of failure. GNAA member popeye submitted a much better version of this story than this 'Limburgher' jew, which was more detailed and was actually true.

popeye writes "After a slight delay, Fedora Core 4 ("Stentz") is now available for download on the Fedora Project download page and mirrors. There is also the torrent of course. Core 4 contains GNOME 2.10, KDE 3.4, X.org 6.8.2 and Linux 2.6.11. You can thank lawyers for delaying the release."

Real hard to tell which one to choose, eh? Inaccurate story (the Fedora web site does announce that FC4 is out), but what do you expect from slashdot. Fuck you, cocksucking editors.

Re:Slashdot editors suck a big cock. (-1, Troll)

SolusSD (680489) | more than 8 years ago | (#12803573)

you must be from the south. come back when you learn some manners, lose the racist undertone, and get rid of the southern (eww) accent.

FIRST HORSE! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#12803357)

I AM A HORSE!

Yet again... (-1, Troll)

keesh (202812) | more than 8 years ago | (#12803366)

slashdot irresponsibly posts a link to a release before it's officially available. Have the editors not learned from all the times they've done this and screwed up in the past?

Re:Yet again... (3, Funny)

dbleoslow (650429) | more than 8 years ago | (#12803396)

Have the editors not learned from all the times they've done this and screwed up in the past?

You're ID 202812 yet you speak like it's your first time here :-)

Re:Yet again... (2, Interesting)

Nighttime (231023) | more than 8 years ago | (#12803400)

I have a email with a date/timestamp of 2005-06-13 15:36 (BST) officially announcing the availability of this release. This story is timestamped 16:11 (GMT), how are /. jumping the gun?

Re:Yet again... (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#12803424)

slashdot irresponsibly posts a link to a release before it's officially available. Have the editors not learned from all the times they've done this and screwed up in the past?

The problem was they broke the main distribution server: the mirrors hadn't gone live yet so everyone went to the main distribution server.

Here, they're linking to the torrents not a HTTP or FTP download page. That won't crash the Fedora project's server. So what's the problem? Don't you understand bittorrent?

Re:Yet again... (-1, Redundant)

JaxWeb (715417) | more than 8 years ago | (#12803459)

The summary is wrong, the Fedora website does mention it.

Fedora Core 4 Available!

Fedora Core 4 is now available from Red Hat and at distinguished mirror sites near you, and is also available in the torrent. Fedora Core is available for x86-64, i386, and ppc/ppc64. Please file bugs via Bugzilla, Product Fedora Core, Version 4, so that they are noticed and appropriately classified. Discuss this release on fedora-list.
- Source [redhat.com]

I beat the Slashdot effect (5, Informative)

Nighttime (231023) | more than 8 years ago | (#12803368)

Managed to snarf a copy over the weekend from an unsecured official mirror. Four CDs, each about 630MB.

Installed it onto my ThinkPad T23, 733MHz/1.13GHz with 512MB RAM. Familiar graphical installation procedure, auto-detected everything in my laptop. Didn't expect it not to, as previous Fedora Core releases did so. When setting up the soundcard though, couldn't hear the test sounds but booting into KDE produced the familiar jingle. SELinux option during installation is Enabled or Disabled, no halfway house as in FC3. Compiling with GCC4.0 has made a noticeable speed difference, especially in KDE 3.4. Start-up time seemed quicker as well.

As always, read the release notes. They have taken the decision to move some stuff off into the Fedora Extras project. XMMS was the main one I noticed. And yes, this being Red Hat-influenced, there is no support for MP3 or DVD playback straight off the installation discs.

If you have a Matrox-based card that requires you to use the Matrox-sourced mga_hal module, you're not going to have much luck configuring X until they release a new version for X.org 6.8.2. I get lovely vertical bars every 1cm on my TFTs using a G550 DVI.

SELinux (1)

PaxTech (103481) | more than 8 years ago | (#12803478)

SELinux option during installation is Enabled or Disabled, no halfway house as in FC3.

You have the choice of running SELinux under either the targeted policy of the strict policy. I think targeted is what you are referring to as the "halfway house".

Targeted only confines certain daemons like Apache and BIND in SELinux domains, the rest of the system runs in an unconfined domain.

Re:I beat the Slashdot effect (2, Informative)

MSG (12810) | more than 8 years ago | (#12803514)

SELinux option during installation is Enabled or Disabled, no halfway house as in FC3.

I believe that they've stopped offering the strict policy, so "on" would be the targeted policy that was offered in FC3.

Re:I beat the Slashdot effect (2, Interesting)

capt.Hij (318203) | more than 8 years ago | (#12803540)

auto-detected everything in my laptop. Didn't expect it not to, as previous Fedora Core releases did so.

I was a very happy RedHat and then Fedora user until I tried to install FC3. I hope that FC4 does better then its predecessor. When I did the install for FC3 it clobbered my system. It appeared that it did not correctly configure itself for my scsi controller.

All I can say is thank you St. Anthony [americancatholic.org] because my backups saved my derrier that day. I am now a very happy gentoo user who synced and updated my system this morning like any other Monday without tempting St. Anthony too much.

It is nice not to have to download 4 cds every four months and hope that I won't need the backups!

Re:I beat the Slashdot effect (1)

hey (83763) | more than 8 years ago | (#12803583)

With BitTorrent the slashdot effect actually helps.
Since there are likely to be more users downloading and they are more likely to be close to you.

Re:I beat the Slashdot effect (1)

Nighttime (231023) | more than 8 years ago | (#12803632)

Bizarrely, I never get good BitTorrent download rates. I'm on a 1Mb down/128kb up cable modem. I can feed people quite happily at 12KB/s yet my incoming is often around the 6KB/s mark. Go figure.

Using FTP and an uncrowded server, I get to use my full incoming bandwidth, approx. 120KB/s.

Only 4 CDs? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#12803671)

Managed to snarf a copy over the weekend from an unsecured official mirror. Four CDs, each about 630MB.

And Debian takes 15! That's like 3-4 times less! Anyone known what's missing from Fedora? Or does it just use better compression?

fedora 4 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#12803371)

So whats new

Re:fedora 4 (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#12803495)

not much, just hanging out today, reading /. What's up with you?

Unless (1)

Arthur B. (806360) | more than 8 years ago | (#12803376)

Makes me wonder, can a tracker be slashdotted ?

Re:Unless (1)

Keruo (771880) | more than 8 years ago | (#12803575)

Yes, trackers can be slashdotted too.
Some trackers went down smoking every week when naruto eps were released on them.
Just couldn't handle the traffic with the early tracker code, but that was almost 2 years ago and I'd guess redhat has enough bandwidth to handle slashdotting.

OS X (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#12803381)

With OS X on Intel why bother. It just works.

Release Notes (4, Informative)

WombatControl (74685) | more than 8 years ago | (#12803384)

The release notes are here [redhat.com]. Major changes include:

  • GNOME 2.10
  • KDE 3.4
  • OpenOffice 2
  • Xen Virtualization
  • PowerPC Support

Re:Release Notes (4, Informative)

AKAImBatman (238306) | more than 8 years ago | (#12803418)

To anyone thinking of downloading this, be warned that these are bleeding edge features! Fedora is the first place they often get tested, and they don't always fit together smoothly. Not to mention that many individual features are not out of Beta testing! So only use this distro if you don't mind getting burned a little bit!

Otherwise it can be a great way to understand what is coming down the pipe. :-)

P.S. Parent poster forgot about GCC 4.0. That's a MAJOR feature itself, but also one of easiest to get burned by.

Re:Release Notes (4, Interesting)

LnxAddct (679316) | more than 8 years ago | (#12803554)

Considering the intensive amount of quality assurance that goes into each fedora release, I wouldnt worry too much about it. I've been using it since Core 1 and have yet to be burned. Its nice having all the latest and greatest stuff, while also having it all integrate together, but also having an OS that I feel comfortable running on my laptop or servers.
Regards,
Steve

Re:Release Notes (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#12803562)

Bleeding edge features... and the most recent bugfixes too. I often wonder how much these two things balance out for other people.
Personally I use the 'not quite bleeding but still rather sore edge' packages from gentoo, and find more recent versions to be more stable. (Except immidiately after a major version 1.x - 2.0 kind of update.)

Re:Release Notes (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#12803420)

There is no OpenOffice 2, it must be a beta 1.99 or something.

FC4 rocks (4, Informative)

Nailer (69468) | more than 8 years ago | (#12803626)

I've been running FC4 (actually Rawhide, the equivalent of Debian unstable) on a Mac mini / Hitachi PJXT100 (yes, my computer is 16cm, my screen is 4m) for a few months here. Bluetooth Apple mouse and keyboard too. A pretty weird hardware setup. Everything works reliably.

In particular, OpenOffice 2 rocks. In FC it comes as individual packages for each app - ie, I get by with openoffice-core, openoffice-writer, and the English language package. In Ubuntu, I have to install and, worse, update a few massive packages.

Gnome does cool stuff. Like never stealing focus. An app wants focus, it pulses in the task bar. As it should be.

Extras now works well, it's easy to get a package into Fedora and there's a lot of useful stuff available. The days of having to go to freshrpms and dag wieers to find your app are numbered - FC4, FC Extras, and Livna for the patented stuff will satisfy most people. Other distros never had this problem, but other distros still don't have decent config tools, and other distros don't install menu items when they install GUI apps. Yes, this means you Debian.

There's a non-poo directory server that has proper ACL support (unlike OpenLDAP, where they were kept outside the directory), multimaster replication. etc as part of the distro. Combine it with JXplorer and you've got a decent Open Source LDAP server.

Off topic: once installed, OOo 2 is the first version I'd say would be on par with MS Office. The toolbars are decent - they no longer take up an entire row, and can be edited and docked together at will, like you damn well expect. Spell check can count selections. Floating docks becomes sidebars. And, surprisingly, it can work with MS Offices proprietary XML files. All the usual OOo features are still there

Other nice things about recent Fedoras:

FC3 and newer: Partitioning uses LVM by default. Online resizing is supported. Ext3 has signficant speed improvements, bechmarks favorably against Reiser, and unlike Reiser, works properly with SELinux.

FC3 but expanded in FC4: SELinux is enabled by default. For example, Apache is prevented from reading files who don't have the 'web content' context, and cgi scripts can't access particular device files without the right context either. If someone breaks into apachge, the chances of them going further than breasking into your web site are limited.

One note: while yum is getting better, I don't use it. Instead, I use Smart Package Manager. A command line and GUI tool from the author of apt-rpm and Synaptic, that replaes both those tools, and works with Yum metadata repositories. It's faster (downloads in parallel from each source), has a better GUI, and simpler error messages than yum and apt (no 'but version foo will be installed'-without-any-explanation type stuff).

Re:Release Notes (1)

LnxAddct (679316) | more than 8 years ago | (#12803650)

Dont forget enhanced integration with SELinux, stateless linux, Eclipse natively compiled, Tomcat natively compiled, the new extras repsoitories, and (although its not technically a part of the OS) the Fedora Directory server. The list goes on much longer though, I recommend anyone who is curious to read the release notes.

someone help me out here... (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#12803391)

after looking at the main fedora page and not finding an answer, can someone tell me what FC 4 does over FC 3?

Upgrade path (5, Interesting)

learn fast (824724) | more than 8 years ago | (#12803392)

Is it easy to upgrade from FC1 to FC4? I have a semi-production server that's running on FC1, and I don't want a clean install.

This is not an off-topic question. The response to this question will make a legitimate point about the FC model.

Re:Upgrade path (2, Funny)

Shadow Wrought (586631) | more than 8 years ago | (#12803416)

The response to this question will make a legitimate point about the FC model.

That is some trust you're putting into the average slashdot response;-)

Re:Upgrade path (5, Informative)

bflong (107195) | more than 8 years ago | (#12803461)

In short, no.
There is not even a supported way to upgrade from FC3 to FC4, or even from a FC4 test release. The reason being explained to me was that testing all that upgrading would greatly slow down the release process. Personaly, I'd rather have to wait another month or two for a release then have to fresh install. It's not as big a deal as it is with windows though, since all the user settings are in /home and easy to back up and restore. But for those running servers on FC, ouch.

Re:Upgrade path (1)

digidave (259925) | more than 8 years ago | (#12803648)

Really, running a server on Fedora Core is probably a mistake to begin with. Not just because of stability (which is usually ok), but because of update end of life and lack of an upgrade path.

Fedora won't get official security updates for long after the next version comes out and you're reliant on the Fedora Legacy project to do that for you.

IMO, this is why distros such as Debian shine on the server. With a long release cycle (no jokes, please) and official updates and upgrade paths, it allows you to run a server from now until eternity without requiring a re-install of the OS for anything.

Re:Upgrade path (2, Informative)

presarioD (771260) | more than 8 years ago | (#12803550)

I am not sure what you mean by easy. I upgraded last year or so from RH9 to FC2 using 'yum upgrade' and it went smoothly. I still had to do some cleanup by myself since the upgrade is not aggressive and does not change all of the gazillions of .conf files but that was smooth as well.

My humble suggestion is *not* to upgrade though unless you have too. In a few months FC4 will be obsolete and FC5 will be out and so on and so forth. A recent kernel upgrade that I did (2.6.10-1-771_FC2) broke the ACPI interface on my laptop, so sometimes living on the bleeding edge can be tiresome, especially with your production PCs!

Re:Upgrade path (1)

tuffy (10202) | more than 8 years ago | (#12803658)

In a few months FC4 will be obsolete and FC5 will be out and so on and so forth.

6 months. It's always 6 months between Fedora releases.

I've had kernel updates break things also, but typically a new kernel will arrive to put things right before long. It wouldn't be bleeding edge if we didn't bleed once in awhile.

Re:Upgrade path (1)

LnxAddct (679316) | more than 8 years ago | (#12803613)

FC3 to FC4 upgraded fine for me, but FC1 might be a long shot. Alot of quirks have been worked out since FC1, if you have some kind of test environment it might be worth trying out.
Regards,
Steve

Re:Upgrade path (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#12803667)

You know of course that FC1 is no longer supported and what the answer to your question is. It might be possible but nobody is going to reccomend it. I suspect you're a troll.

Re:Upgrade path (1, Insightful)

pz (113803) | more than 8 years ago | (#12803687)

I have a semi-production server that's running on FC1, and I don't want a clean install.

Let's concentrate on the first part of the quote before going on to the second: A semi-production server running FC1. You're running experimental, development code on a sever? Huh? The primary concern with a server is stability and reliability. Secondary to that is performance (if you have a whiz-bang fast server that goes down once a day, you are doing something wrong). Plenty of web sites are still using RedHat 6.2 because it's so stable.

What features could you possibly want on a server that you don't currently have (since you apparently have a functioning system) that you're willing to give up stability for? How have you configured your system that it isn't easy to replace the OS if you need to? My guess is that you aren't really serious about the question, or that you aren't really serious about your server.

So let's try this again: you want to upgrade a system. It has some important stuff on it. And this stuff is so important that you're not willing to back it up (or place it on separate partitions) to be able to do a clean install to ensure you won't have nasty interaction problems between bits of the old OS and new OS plaguing you interminably? You have something important on your computer and you DON'T want to do a clean install?

It's not an off-topic question, its a question that doesn't make any sense, any way you slice it.

the mirrors are populated long time ago... (4, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#12803397)

http://ftp-stud.fht-esslingen.de/pub/Mirrors/fedor a.redhat.com/linux/core/4/i386/iso/>
http://ftp-stud.fht-esslingen.de/pub/Mirrors/fedor a.redhat.com/linux/core/4/i386/iso/ [fht-esslingen.de]
http://ftp-stud.fht-esslingen.de/pub/Mirrors/fedor a.redhat.com/linux/core/4/i386/iso/ [fht-esslingen.de]

http://download.fedora.redhat.com/pub/fedora/lin ux /core/4/>
http://download.fedora.redhat.com/pub/fedora/linux /core/4/ [redhat.com]
http://download.fedora.redhat.com/pub/fedora/linux /core/4/ [redhat.com]

ftp://ftp.tu-chemnitz.de/pub/linux/fedora-core/4/ [tu-chemnitz.de]
ftp://ftp.tu-chemnitz.de/pub/linux/fedora-core/4 />
ftp://ftp.tu-chemnitz.de/pub/linux/fedora-core/4/ [tu-chemnitz.de]

and many more....

dont wait for shitty slashdot to report on old news.

cuz nothin is older than the news of yesterday/yesterhour/yesterminute...

Re:the mirrors are populated long time ago... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#12803678)

Thank you! The bit torrent, as always, looked like it would take the rest of the year to finish. It's much better to use a real FTP site rather than that piece of crap.

Re:the mirrors are populated long time ago... (2, Interesting)

juhaz (110830) | more than 8 years ago | (#12803684)

The mirrors were populated quite a while ago because the original release for FC4 was supposed to be a week ago.

They were NOT open until today 14:00 UTC however, because there were some stupid legal issues, something to do with legal team needing to check the release name "Stentz".

just what I want to do (-1, Troll)

SQLz (564901) | more than 8 years ago | (#12803401)

Download 2.4 gigs at 11KBps for 10 hours before I give enough back to download at 20KBps. I can get the full ISOs off usenet at 7mbps and not fubar my upstream so I can still do other things.

Now that Debian's back in the game.... (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#12803405)

... what's the incentive of moving to moving to Fedora. I don't mean this as a troll - I like Fedora filling the gaps for people who didn't feel comfortable with Debian Unstable - but it feels to me like Debian's a bigger organization with more resources to handle more packages than Fedora. Especially since red hat left it. Is there reason to believe Fedora can continue competing without it's corportate ties?

Two major Core 4 fixes (3, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#12803406)

The load times are definitely faster and it's nowhere near as dark all the time.

Best slashdot ever (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#12803409)

Torrent download rate before slashdot posted the story: 10 KB/s

After slashdotting: 145 KB/s (flirting with my max bandwidth)

Main Site News (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#12803410)

Its on the main site now. They must have waited for /. to post it then they could make it official.

Thanks slashdot!

Re:Main Site News (3, Informative)

m85476585 (884822) | more than 8 years ago | (#12803462)

It was on the main site a few hours before it was on Slashdot. You just had to push refresh.

Installed it already... ;) (2, Informative)

prefect42 (141309) | more than 8 years ago | (#12803421)

The installer couldn't cope with installing into an existing LVM VG which is a shame.

Switching from init 1 to init 5 requested the root password which was novel. I'll have to track down what that's all about.

Tracker busted. (2, Interesting)

bogado (25959) | more than 8 years ago | (#12803427)

The tracker did not handle the masses of people going after him, it is upto now not accepting any conections. This shows that a trackless BitTorrent is really needed.

Ask and though shalt receive! (2, Informative)

Danathar (267989) | more than 8 years ago | (#12803689)

Magnet URI for Azeurus if you don't want to actually download the torrent file....FC4 i386 binary

magnet:?xt=urn:btih:3QYOKFWIML7MWVELF36AWWW3VTVL DW 32

Desktop Linux users, don't bother with Fedora (-1, Flamebait)

ylikone (589264) | more than 8 years ago | (#12803439)

Go here [ubuntulinux.org] and grab the latest version of Ubuntu... you can thank me later.

Re:Desktop Linux users, don't bother with Fedora (1)

jci (521890) | more than 8 years ago | (#12803546)

I'm a ubuntu convert as well after seeing a couple friend's installs compared to when I was using FC3 at the time. I worked with FC3 for a couple months, and completely borked my install a couple times doing different things.

Ubuntu immediately has better support for wireless network settings (profiles!), which I need for school/home/etc. That and it isn't the hack of "you've changed your settings, now go restart your network service for settings to stick" type crap that Fedora was.

Re:Desktop Linux users, don't bother with Fedora (1)

bogado (25959) | more than 8 years ago | (#12803606)

Have you tried the NetworkManager? It is amazing and beats the crap out of the profile managed network that I saw in Ubuntu. It requires exactly 0 clicks to configure when using a wired network and a few clicks while using the wireless configuration (you still need to choose what net you want to join and configure the keys when it is protected).

I believe that desktop-fedora will walk toward the NetworkManager while the old static configuration would be more fitted to servers that do need static configs anyway.

On the other hand, NetworkManager is not ready, yet, it still don't configure NTP automaticly for instance.

Re:Desktop Linux users, don't bother with Fedora (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#12803547)

Oh god no. Thanks but no thanks!

Re:Desktop Linux users, don't bother with Fedora (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#12803579)

Whoever marked this insightful should be shot on sight.

Re:Desktop Linux users, don't bother with Fedora (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#12803582)

"Insightful"? WTF are you smoking this time, mods?

If you're gonna take sides in a Linux distro flamewar, then why the heck would you choose the Nigger Distro?

Ualaglalabuluhmbmbmbmng Linux, the preferred choice for Nigerian 419 scammers everywhere! Now go sing some kumbayah or something.

Re:Desktop Linux users, don't bother with Fedora (1)

iggymanz (596061) | more than 8 years ago | (#12803652)

heh, there might be other choices out there, SuSE Pro works much more nicely on my desktop & laptop than RedHat or Federo 1 &2 ever did. Mobile wireless with RH or FC sucks too.

Yuck! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#12803465)

:P

Trying to catch up? (-1, Offtopic)

suman28 (558822) | more than 8 years ago | (#12803485)

Trying to catch up with Windows 2000 eh? That should take but about 10000 minutes.

Linux Trademarked? (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#12803489)

Uh. From Fedora 4's release notes:

Linux is a registered trademark of Linus Torvalds.

I don't see Linux anywhere in the USPTO's system. Isn't it illegal to make this claim when it isn't so?

Re:Linux Trademarked? (2, Informative)

SolusSD (680489) | more than 8 years ago | (#12803530)

no, because its a trademark (tm), not a patent.

Re:Linux Trademarked? (3, Informative)

hpa (7948) | more than 8 years ago | (#12803617)

The USPTO registration number is 1916230.
http://tarr.uspto.gov/servlet/tarr?regser=registra tion&entry=1916230&action=Request+Status [uspto.gov]

(Note: the mentioned William Della Croce is someone who fraudulently attempted to register Linux as a trademark; he got sued and transferred the trademark to Linus as part of settling the lawsuit.)

Typed Drawing
Word Mark LINUX
Goods and Services IC 009. US 021 023 026 036 038. G & S: computer operating system software to facilitate computer use and operation. FIRST USE: 19940802. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 19940802
Mark Drawing Code (1) TYPED DRAWING
Serial Number 74560867
Filing Date August 15, 1994
Current Filing Basis 1A
Original Filing Basis 1A
Published for Opposition June 13, 1995
Change In Registration CHANGE IN REGISTRATION HAS OCCURRED
Registration Number 1916230
Registration Date September 5, 1995
Owner (REGISTRANT) Croce, William R. Della, Jr. INDIVIDUAL UNITED STATES 33 Snow Hill St. Boston MASSACHUSETTS 02113

(LAST LISTED OWNER) TORVALDS, LINUS INDIVIDUAL Assignee of FINLAND 5774 CANNES PLACE SAN JOSE CALIFORNIA 95138
Assignment Recorded ASSIGNMENT RECORDED
Attorney of Record ROBERT T. DAUNT
Type of Mark TRADEMARK
Register PRINCIPAL
Affidavit Text SECT 15. SECT 8 (6-YR).
Live/Dead Indicator LIVE

you can also get them faster from here (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#12803498)

shinyfeet files [shinyfeet.com] just click on the Free Demo and in the File Manager under Fedora Core 4

Pardon me, why use fedora? (-1, Flamebait)

Eugene Webby (891781) | more than 8 years ago | (#12803539)

I hate to be the devils advocate, but fedora is being used as a test bed by redhat for stuff it wants to add to RHEL. Basically, you are all testing potentially buggy software, and redhat benfit from it. I used to use RH9, but when they started the fedora thing I went looking else where... if you like fedora why not get white linux (I think that's the name), its basically RHEL rebranded and given out for free. Personally I don't think fedora is that great for regular desktop use, ubuntu or mandriva or suse are IMHO have more of the users intrest in mind. (please don't flame me, I realize redhat contribute a lot of code and time and funds)

Re:Pardon me, why use fedora? (2, Insightful)

Cutie Pi (588366) | more than 8 years ago | (#12803653)

Yeah RedHat benefits but the users benefit too in that they get to try out all the latest and greatest software in a convenient package. RHEL is more stable but it's certainly not on the cutting edge. People have different priorities. And those other distros are nice but the great thing about linux is that each distro has its own style. Some people like fedora's style better than mandriva's, for example.

pre-emptive apt vs rpm rebuttal (3, Informative)

pyros (61399) | more than 8 years ago | (#12803592)

You can't compare apt and rpm (command line tools). These are the only comparisons which are valid
  • command line dependency trackers - apt vs up2date/apt/yum
  • binary package formats - RPM vs DEB
  • command line single package management tools - rpm vs dpkg

If you make any comparisons which cross the above boundaries, you are either trolling or have a fundamental misunderstanding of what you are discussing and should reald up before posting.

WM Strife. (2, Interesting)

ionicplasma (820891) | more than 8 years ago | (#12803666)

XFCE has been moved to extras.

It's funny to see how a lightweight yet potentially pretty WM wouldn't be the first choice for producing a desktop OS. Why not include it with the distro?
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