After College, What Type of Jobs Should One Seek? 628
Sushant Bhatia asks: "I'm coming to the end of my Masters degree, and I'm on the prowl for jobs. However, there are so many types out there it's just overwhelming for someone who's never had to go through the job-hunting process before. So, what should I do? Should I go for a full-time, contract, half-time, or something else? Also, what kind of position should a person with a Master's in Computer Science be looking for (other than dish washer)? I've been looking at senior software developer positions, but is that too high up the ladder for someone 'fresh' to cope with? My current manager (research lab) says that 'You should always find a job that is above your skill level so that you can learn and be challenged.' I think he's right, but is that something Slashdot readers agree with? What was your job coming out of university?"
Master's in Computer Science, eh? (Score:5, Funny)
Cupstacker (Score:2)
Also, piloting those forklifts at Home Depot that make that nice beeping sound gets you bonus points.
Re:Master's in Computer Science, eh? (Score:5, Funny)
"Do you want fries with that?"
Re:Master's in Computer Science, eh? (Score:5, Funny)
/me coughs
It's "Hi. I have a BS in Liberal Arts. Would you like Fries with that?"
Oh, and before you try it: Wrong kind of BS.
Re:Master's in Computer Science, eh? (Score:5, Funny)
You mean a BA (Batchelor of Arts)..
unless of course, you mean bullshit degree
Liberal Arts degrees (Score:3, Interesting)
Yes, yes. A Liberal Arts degree is horrible. You'll never get a job with one, you'll never get anywhere. However, in my group of college friends, only one of the six of us obtained a CS degree, another a biology degree, and the remaining four obtained degrees in Archeology, Political Science + Economics, International Relations, and Business. Fifteen years later three of us work in the computer industry (in a technical capacity, not a
Way overeducated for that. (Score:2)
-Charlie
Re:Master's in Computer Science, eh? (Score:4, Funny)
Just doing my duty to apply logic to Slashdot comments that don't ask for it.
Re:Master's in Computer Science, eh? (Score:5, Interesting)
So I've read....
But, let me fill you in on the reality.
Christmas eve a few years back. I needed a Jeep Wrangler Power Wheels last minute. I'd heard of the legendary Wal-Mart inventory management system, so I figure a phone call and all would be well.
So, I called the closest store, and they said they didn't have any left (big surprise on Christmas eve). But never fear, the next closest store has 3 in stock.
So, I truck on over there only to find that not only do they have none, but they haven't seen any for a week--or so said the manager of the department. In disbelief, I combed the aisles looking for the three they supposedly in stock. I gave up after 20 minutes of wandering the garden section (Which is where they keep the excess stock of that stuff).
On my way home, I drove passed the Wal-Mart that I had originally called and figured I'd stop in to look at their power wheels selection to see what they had left in Silverados and what not, as being the newest Super Wal-Mart in my area, they had the biggest selection. When I walked in, there it was sitting in the middle of the aisle, a Jeep Wrangler Power Wheels.
An employee asked me if I was finding everything ok, so I asked them why I was told that they had none in stock when this was sitting right here in plain view.
He looked at the box, and looked at me and said, "well, this here was supposed to have been delivered to another store. But I guess the driver forgot to drop it there, so it ended up here, 'cuz he didn't want to return to the dock with it in his truck still. We're the last store on his route so that happens all the time."
So, there you have it. The system might be designed to work a certain way, but it's only as strong as the people involved.
Re:Master's in Computer Science, eh? (Score:5, Informative)
Doesn't surprise me. As evil as Wal-Mart is they are interesting. They really believe in the "do everything cheap" philosophy. Have you seen the head office? Even the CEO's office looks like that of a used car salesmen. Nothing fancy what-so-ever.
Re:Master's in Computer Science, eh? (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Master's in Computer Science, eh? (Score:3, Funny)
Entry level because... (Score:5, Insightful)
I have a great deal of real-world experience now, and a degree as well. When I graduated, I started at entry-level positions and worked my way up. It works.
Recently, I worked with a guy who had a masters in computer science from a well-known accredited state college. And he wasn't an idiot. However, he also wasn't ready for the real world. His troubleshooting thought process needed a great deal of refinement, and his ability to deliver the kind of requirements necessary in the kinds of time-frames necessary just wasn't up to par (yet). During the year that I worked with him, I saw his skills improve (as one would expect). In another several years, he may be senior-position material. But not until he has the experience under his belt.
I am not saying college is easy, nor that the education is valueless. I AM saying that graduates, precisely because of their lack of experience, have an unrealistically high opinion of their own abilities, and often make the sorts of costly (and embarrassing) mistakes that more experienced programmers don't make.
So there's my opinion.
Re:Entry level because... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Entry level because...(seconded) (Score:3, Insightful)
The only reason I looked in this discussion was to make sure that someone had made this statement. Now, I'll second it. All college does is to prepare you to learn. In your first few years in the real world, you should prepare yourself to learn several times as fast as you did in college because now you don't have the hindrance of mass education and can learn as an individual.
I've heard it said that we should count someone with a Masters as having a BS+2 years of experience. That would still not place
Re:Entry level because... (Score:5, Insightful)
Hell, that's half my career right there: figuring out what some hotshot did while making a "simple" change that broke something else. Why am I so good at it? Because I spent the first half of my career making those same mistakes and having to eventually figure out the consequences.
Re:Master's in Computer Science, eh? (Score:3, Funny)
So do the computer thing as a hobby and become a plumber. From a lot of the code I've seen out there, plumbing would be a good step up and challenging.
As a plumber you'll be the richest guy in your city. And you'll know how to fix your own toilet. Never hire a programmer than can't fix a toilet (ref: US Army study in the 70s).
Either way you'll be putting up with the same shit from different assholes.
Re:Master's in Computer Science, eh? (Score:3, Insightful)
I have worked with a lot of non-degreed developers that were very capable.
Many non-degreed people will tell you degrees are worthless. They may collect stories of the "educated idiots" they have met or worked with.
It might be sour grapes. It might be that they had to quit school to support themselves or their family.
Some non-degreed people are really touchy about the ide
Re:Master's in Computer Science, eh? (Score:3, Interesting)
When I graduated in 2004 I was recruited by a Canadian celluar company into their IT department. For me I was hired into the operations side so sysadmin and tech support kind of work. Along with me various people from UofT and Waterloo were hired into the development side of IT. From talking with the people hired as developer
Learn people skills (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Learn people skills (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Learn people skills (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Learn people skills (Score:3, Insightful)
You order 5 tacos and ask for 10 mild sauces. They can't give them to you. Even from the drive-through, you have to park and come in to get the extra sauce yourself.
If I actually went to Taco Bell, I'd just wait in the drive thru line until they gave me my sauce. What idiot thought pissing on customers was good business.
Re:Learn people skills (Score:5, Informative)
Depends on whether it's bottled, premix or postmix.
Some very small restaurants purchase their soda pop in either single-serving cans or bottles (quite expensive) or 2 liter bottles (slightly cheaper).
Most restaurants use either premix or postmix. Premix is, as the word suggests, pre-mixed with water at the bottling plant. It costs about 10x as much as postmix but it tastes a lot better. Chain restaurants and whatnot use postmix where a syrup is mixed with water on-site. This is the cheapest but least "tasty" option. The contents of cup of postmix costs very little; the cup costs something though.
Re:Learn people skills (Score:2)
I have been to a wide variety of fast food joints in my day and have never once ever been asked "would you like fries with that". Ever. Where does this myth come from?
Re:Learn people skills (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Learn people skills (Score:3, Funny)
Here's the instructional video:
clickey [americanangst.com]...
Sit over here, sonny. (Score:5, Insightful)
Straight goods:
There's always a need for network people and sysadmins. With the shift from Windows/Proprietary Unix to Linux/*BSD you should concentrate on jobs in those areas, they're booming (I get at least 2 offers a month). If you stick to the Windows side of things you're going to be in a rut of helping users reboot and install patches. If you stick to proprietary Unix you can still do well in some high end research or data center work but cheap clusters are eating the bottom end out of some of that market.
Don't expect a senior position. Frankly too many hot-shot grads think they're The Goods; NONE are. If you can't translate your book smarts to real world work then you're destined to a life at a help desk.
That's how it is around here (I'm based in SoCal with work in 8 data centers around the country and 4 internationally) and I've been in the field since 1988.
Re:Sit over here, sonny. (Score:5, Informative)
Also, you need to work a permanent job for a couple of years before you've got enough experience to do contracting.
If your goal is to do contract work, the ideal job might be with a services company that takes you on as a permanent member of staff, and then contracts you out to their clients.
Re:Sit over here, sonny. (Score:3, Informative)
I've been a contractor for the last 7 years and before that I worked for a sub-contracting company and I feel it helped prepare me for the frequent change in environment a contractor typically experiences.
It may be different elsewhere but in the UK I would be very suprised if any company employed a grad in a 'senior' position and the parent poster is on the ball, go for the money, not the title and give yourself more rungs in the ladder.
Re:Sit over here, sonny. (Score:5, Insightful)
That's not entirely fair (though it mostly is). I've met people who've had enough experience by the time they graduated to understand the real world, and whose talent/enthusiasm/hard work would make them the equals of an average programmer several years into their career (though probably still not an average person getting a senior developer position). This is particularly true of those who've taken placements lasting a few months during their academic careers, or a year out before university, and thus worked in a professional environment for a worthwhile period.
However, your actual ability doesn't really matter much, because image is everything when applying for a job, and you'll be very lucky to find a company that's employing new grads and willing to take a chance that someone who looks that good really is, because as you say, most won't be. It's far more likely that they'd make a relatively good offer for a starting post, and then say nice things and promote rapidly (in salary, if not in job title) over the first couple of years as the greater ability shows through.
Applying for a senior developer position, which usually requires around 5 years of experience, without any prior experience at all will be a direct route to the bin in almost any company I can think of. Larger companies could easily filter you in the HR database before a human even saw your resume. Even at the smaller ones who review CVs by human eye, you'll need an exceptional application to attract enough attention that they'll consider you as a new starter instead, and the ego demonstrated by being a grad applying for a senior position right off would be a major black mark for anyone reviewing CVs I've ever met.
Re:Sit over here, sonny. (Score:5, Insightful)
Why would someone with a Masters of Computer Science want a network or sysadmin position? Someone like that almost certainly has little hardware experience - but experience in creating and coding algorithms. With a Masters degree, he's also got experience doing deep research into a narrow subject.
Re:CS != IT (Score:3, Interesting)
I do have a Computer Science degree, and that's actually what I do. I enjoy the troubleshooting and breadth of experience that you can get fixing machines. No two problems are exactly the same and it's fun to be challenged (and there's no point in being a snob about it).
In actuality, I'm the "computer guy" for a small business and keep everything running. I do networkin
Start with CEO (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Start with CEO (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Start with CEO (Score:2)
English is not my first language, but shouldn't that be "whose" instead of "who's"?
Anyway, nice quote
Shoot high (Score:3, Insightful)
However if you would like to be not in an uncertain position you better find out your interest and competents.
Perhaps getting in contact with a good headhunter is not that bad of an idea, but hey who am I telling if get a Msc. CS you could figure that out by yourself.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2, Funny)
Why enter the real world? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Why enter the real world? (Score:5, Interesting)
So my personal advice is to try and do what you like and not get disappointed over being rejected. And I think people in masses tend to be pessimists.. so take what they (slashdot) say witha grain of salt.
Re:Why enter the real world? (Score:5, Funny)
Self-employment (Score:2, Insightful)
I've never worked for anyone in my life. Got a flexible schedule and can do whatever I want.
Discipline and experience (Score:3, Insightful)
Something's Wrong Here (Score:5, Funny)
Most people here are kids working at McDonald's or aging, overweight geeks living in their parents basement.
My advice, listen to all the +5 comments, and do the exact opposite.
Re:Something's Wrong Here (Score:5, Funny)
My advice, listen to all the +5 comments, and do the exact opposite.
I really hope your comment gets to +5. The connundrum of doing the opposite of the opposite will make his head explode.
...probably the moderation system... (Score:5, Funny)
Of course, Slashdot moderation being what it is, the parent will probably end up with a +5 moderation, and then what do you do?
Re:...probably the moderation system... (Score:2)
Re:...probably the moderation system... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:...probably the moderation system... (Score:3, Funny)
That's an easy one. You take his advice and ignore what he told you to do...
Re:...probably the moderation system... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Something's Wrong Here (Score:2)
But now that I've commented, I can't mod you down.
Crap.
Re:Something's Wrong Here (Score:3, Interesting)
in terms of IT people giving you advice, Steve Jobs gave a commencement speech at Stanford this past week. I had a very high opinion of Jobs before this, but after reading the text here I think he's in exalted territory. Maybe something he says might be able to help you.
http://news-service.stanford.edu/news/2005/june15 / jobs-061505.html [stanford.edu]:
'You've got to find what you love,' Jobs says
This is the text of the Commencement address by Steve Jobs, CEO of Apple Computer and of
Re:Something's Wrong Here (Score:2)
When I was 17, I read a quote that went something like: "If you live each day as if it was your last, someday you'll most certainly be right." It made an impression on me, and since then, for the past 33 years, I have looked in the mirror every morning and asked myself: "If today were the last day of my life, would I want to do what I am about to do today?" And whenever the answer has been "No" for too many days in a row, I know I need to change something.
Re:Something's Wrong Here (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Something's Wrong Here (Score:3, Interesting)
If today is the last day of my life, would my plans change?
AND
If I live another 65 years, will I regret anything included in my plans today?
Between the 2, you get a balance that keeps you from wasting the few years you actually do have, but without the reckless disregard for your future, should you have one (and statistically you will).
The first question keeps you from reaching old age, saying "I wish I had . .
Re:Something's Wrong Here (Score:5, Interesting)
"So when a worshipping blogger posts a product rumor I don't like, I sue him. When a book gets written I don't appreciate, I have it banned from stores. And why do I do this? Because a fawning media and corrupt power structure let me get away with it. Because when I stand up here and spout revisionist treacle about fonts and calligraphy and my role in being first with the Macintosh, people like you believe it. And it gets reported and reprinted without challenge."
"So when I look in the mirror each morning and think about whether it's my last day on earth, I also say to myself, "Just in case it isn't, I better make sure I take care of No. 1." And I guess the lesson to you as you make your way through life is, Don't cross me, or I'll crush you. And nobody will be around to stick up for you while I do it. They'll all be too busy applauding my bogus life lessons while thinking, "What a guy!""
-- Seattle Times Columnist Paul Andrews re-writes Steve Jobs' Stanford commencement speech
Re:Something's Wrong Here (Score:2)
+5s? Including this one?
Re:Something's Wrong Here (Score:4, Insightful)
The time to figure out what job to get is not the week before you graduate with a master's degree.
Apparently one... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Apparently one... (Score:5, Insightful)
One step at a time! (Score:5, Insightful)
I think you should be very careful - I can't imagine many companies wanting to hire a fresh graduate into a Senior position, there are a lot of experienced professionals out there looking for work, and all the graduates are generally looking to step into a junior software developer positions.
If you aim for unrealistic goals, then you must be prepared to fail, if you do want to go for the senior positions on the off-chance you hit lucky, make sure you also apply for the junior positions elsewhere.
To be honest, just working in a corporate environment should be a challenging learning experience for most graduates, it's completely different to how you will have worked in college. Once you have mastered the basic work-place skills and proven your worth then you will be in a position to move on to more challenging roles.
I would agree that it is best to find a job that you will learn in and be challenged, but the way to do this is to have a lot of applications out there, a number of offers in the bag after interviews, then you choose the most interesting/challenging one. Don't be afraid of accepting positions as they come in, and then "resigning" them before starting if you get a better offer from another company. the companies are pretty strict on making sure they have the right candidate out of many, and if you get the opportunity then you should make sure you pick the best company out of many.
Get your first foot on the ladder, then set your own pace for progression - be on the lookout for stagnation though, if you find yourself getting bogged down in a position, bored and unchallenged, go shopping for a new job.
Hope that helps!
-- Pete.
Re:One step at a time! (Score:5, Insightful)
Stay away from games... (Score:2, Informative)
From someone who is in the industry, stay away from games. You are only signing yourself up for long hours for lackluster compensation.
--P
Be agressive. (Score:2)
Re:Be agressive. (Score:5, Interesting)
No. I mean no. For the love of God, No! Have you lost your bloody mind?! NO!
Don't. Ever. Work. For. Free. You might as well wear a sandwich board that reads "My time is worthless and I'm so naive that I believe an idea put forth by suits looking to recruit cheap, easily-abused labor. I'm beyond desperate, so please, pay me some lowball chump change."
Take a lesson from the marketers. People honestly believe that a thing is worth what you paid for it. If you ever work for someone for free, you'll never convince them to pay top dollar for your services.
You wouldn't believe how much my life has improved since I learned to look them right in the ye without blinking and say "You're right. I compete on quality, not price. To be honest, these are my prices if I design and implement. If I have to go through the headache of fixing someone else's mistakes, I charge a 20% premium."
You'd be amazed at how that one little statement/attitude improves your world. You never have to deal with those neurotic not-worth-the-trouble PITA clients, and the rest come to the job with a "he's expensive, he must know what he's doing" mentality.
So long as you can deliver the goods, it's a far more satisfying way to run your business.
My real advice... (Score:2)
What skills can you prove you have? (Score:5, Insightful)
That's the key, and a degree doesn't help you much. A degree gives an employer a fair indication that you have a decent level of knowledge and can work reasonably hard. But it doesn't tell them that you'll be able to plan a software project or write code that's easy to maintain.
If you apply for a job and they have a choice between you and someone with more real world experience, odds are pretty good they won't choose you. So, fresh out of college, your choices are limited. Basically, check the job listings and apply for anything which isn't asking for more experience than you've got. There are other things to consider, of course, but that's the major one. They pretty much have to be looking for a fresh graduate.
Re:What skills can you prove you have? (Score:3, Insightful)
And these days, a lot of degrees don't carry the weight they used to because so many places are practically giving them away (and I don't mean those e-mails you keep getting), and most degrees in computer science don't demonstrate much knowledge of computer science (because so many are just sub-standard training in the tools of the day with a university logo on the certificate). As a new
Learn to spell and punctuate, for one thing (Score:5, Insightful)
It's "Master's," not "Masters." See wikipedia entry [wikipedia.org].
It doesn't look particularly impressive on a resume if you can't even write your educational credentials correctly. Yes, these are small things, but we are nerds, and for nerds small things like this matter. If we weren't obsessive about details, our programs wouldn't compile, and we wouldn't be who we are.
Re:Learn to spell and punctuate, for one thing (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Learn to spell and punctuate, for one thing (Score:5, Funny)
If we weren't obsessive about details, our programs wouldn't compile, and we wouldn't be who we are.
Luckily, English isn't a compiled language. It's interpreted, and the intepreter's syntax is usually quite lax.
I must say (Score:2)
But there's a big difference between him and me: I started working during the bubble, and I had the luxury of actually shopping for a job. That is over now, as he'll soon realize.
Good luck buddy, you'll need it. Trust me...
Re:I must say (Score:2)
Wow... (Score:2)
Personally, I always looked at school as a means to an end... I want this kind of a job, so I'll take this in school.
Re:Wow... (Score:2)
And some of us study what we're actually interested in. It's foolish to assume that at 18, you know what all jobs are like and what you want to do.
My advice, and I haven't graduated. (Score:2)
What I'm saying is, don't go for a harder job just because its harder. Choose something t
Full time for at least a few years (Score:2, Insightful)
As for what sort of employment, I'm biased because I work in it, but I think the Mobile Phone software industry is very up and coming right now, its where all the excitment is going to be in the next few years.
two words: self employment (Score:3, Informative)
That's one way to prove yourself and learn all the parts of a business directly. Or rotate through divisions of a larger company that involve marketing, product design, business development, channel relations, advertising, tech support, etc. If you take this approach, one thing is for sure: you won't wind up a tax-and-spend Democrat. (!)
to state the obvious (Score:2)
One where the people are friendly( managment and co-workers)
One with good benefits
One with prospects.
All else failing , take what's going and find your head as you go
You are askign the worng question (Score:5, Insightful)
You're asking the wrong question. You should first sit down and ask yourself what interests you and what you would enjoy doing for a living. Maybe you dig airplanes so you want to get a job working on the computer systems on new planes from Boeing. Or maybe you like security software so go find a job at Symantec. You get the point.
After you've figured out what interests you, go talk to alumni from your school who work in the industry you're heading into. Ask them how they like their job, what salary expectatios you should have with your experience etc.
Whatever you end up doing, make sure you enjoy it. Good luck job hunting! I hope you land somewhere interesting and enjoyable.
IT job suck (Score:2)
I then went back and got an MSc in Internet Systems Development but when I was 'learning' I landed a part time development roll where I was hideously over worked and under paid, now 12 months after graduating I've packed in that job and as well as a BSc and an MSc (that noone cares about) I have 3 years of industry experience that c
Beware PHBs & laundry-list skillsets (Score:2)
'nuff said.
sucker (Score:2)
You take any job you can get and look what for you want later :)
zerg (Score:3, Insightful)
In my experience... (Score:3, Insightful)
If you shoot for a Senior level anything position, you better know, and I mean KNOW your shit, because by that point, they are looking for people to get things done, rather than learning things. You might do well to start at a I or II level position, and work (and I do mean WORK) your way up. I started at a I and in less than a year, got promoted (with a consider raise) to a II level by proving myself beyond just doing what was necessary.
Networking (Score:2)
By the way does anyone have recommendations for books that are similar over even better?
senior?? (Score:2)
People starting at my company (defense contractor) with a MSCS start at software engineer level 2. One step above those without the masters. Basically the 2 year masters is the same as 2 years of work. Forget trying to be a senior level.
Master of Science (Score:2)
A little late, but still possible (Score:2)
Step #1: list your hobbies.. (Score:5, Insightful)
If learning isn't your favorite hobby, then put together a list of all the stuff you like to do. Do you like to travel? Mountain bike? Scuba dive? If that's what you enjoy, then go work in that field. Believe it or not, you can find good-paying tech jobs (or just about anything else) in each of those areas. If you like to travel, look on Lonely Planet's web site for jobs. If you like to ride bikes, then check out the website of a bike manufacturer to see if they're hiring.
I worked for a small company for about 3 years and had a lot of fun doing sys admin work. It was a great learning experience and at that point in my life I enjoyed learning just about more than anything.
Then I decided I'd go skiing. Now I get paid to work for a ski resort doing IT work. In the winter I get anywhere between 40 - 100 days of skiing in. I'm actually sort of getting bored of skiing now, so I'm thinking sitting on a beach in Thailand is what I'll do. I just need to get paid for it.
You'll also need to weigh whether the greed of $$$ will override where you want to live. Ideally you'll live and work exactly where you want to. However, you might be tempted to move across the country to a place you hate just to make money.
Different Environments (Score:3, Insightful)
Depends on where you work. I worked for several years after college and then went back to school full time for an advanced degree. At least in my experience, there's a world of difference between what the senior software engineers did and the kind of development that I do in grad school.
Most academic types don't have to worry about making their code bulletproof, "productizing" it, requirements documents, tech specs, working with UI folks, working with QA folks and bug DBs, or coding to a schedule as part of team. Then there's talking to customers, putting out fires and doing damage control when something breaks. And depending on how senior you are, there may be managing a budget and managing devs under you. (Then you may get to deal with HR for hiring, firing and performance evaluations.) It's much more rigorous and often very different from the sort of speculative, independant exploratory development that takes place at grad school.
I'm not trying to put down grad school (I wouldn't be back if I didn't think it had value), but someone who's never worked in the commercial sector will lack a lot of the real-life experience that senior engineers there need. And an advanced degree is not a substitute.
Big company first (Score:3, Interesting)
For instance: The coder who wouldn't check-in for five weeks at a time, and then say their hard drive crashed. When the source control admin would go to reconstruct their work, they found there had only been 10 lines of code completed during that period. After this happened three times running, the company wised up and fired his ass.
Then there's the guy we called "PhD" -- which stood for "personal hygiene deficit". A good example of why some people shouldn't eat at their desks.
At a large bank in Charlotte, there was the eternal project -- every time a new Senior Vice President got hired, the project got reincarnated as his personal vision of how the code should work. I expect they still haven't delivered anything, 12 years later.
Chip H.
Steve Jobs just talked about this at Stanford (Score:5, Informative)
Very simple. (Score:4, Interesting)
Make yourself up some business cards, and have at it! Starting a business is pretty easy, and if you work hard at it one can be a lot more successful than simply working for someone else.
Get an HSA (health savings account) with a small business association, and start a Roth IRA immediately.
In an interview in Inc. 500 a few years back, many hiring managers said that prior ownership of a tech business (even if it failed miserably) immediately put someone at the top of the list for a lead technical position or management.
Good luck!
Follow your heart and pursue your dreams. (Score:3, Interesting)
After I finished in college, I became a musician - something I always wanted to do. This evolved into running a recording studio. I also worked in the theatre - because I always wanted to act too! The skills I learned in these professions have stood me well to this day. About 5 years out of college, I got my first "conventional" job.
Now, in my early forties, my career is where I want it to be. I'm still trying new things but staying within the ball park of my qualifications and experience.
Some of my peer group who left school and immersed themselves immediately and deeply into their career paths are now hitting their mid-life crises with varying consequences.
So, find a comfortable place along the spectrum which has career/salary/prospects at one end and reckless abandon at the other.
Good luck to you and remember - don't rely on the advice of strangers...
You are still a student (Score:3, Insightful)
I consider much of my first year out of school to have been a waste. Sure, I was given my own (important) projects and learned three languages I hadn't used before. That's great. But as some of my projects progressed it started to become apparent to me that while I could make this stuff happen and my boss was happy, I just didn't know my shit enough and needed mentoring. I wasn't getting that at that job and so I bailed out and found work elsewhere.
Where I ended up was perfect. My first month or two was kinda miserable as I learned that not only did I need mentoring, I was way behind where I thought I was. But I learned a lot and had every line of code I wrote reviewed and critiqued. On my first solo project there, I ended up rewriting the thing about three times. You learn a lot from that.
Your goal is to find a teacher who will appreciate the talents you've picked up in your masters program. I've been doing a lot of consulting and been in a number of companies. My heartfelt recommendation is that you get into a small company where the people are passionate.
Re:entry level (Score:3, Insightful)
Likewise, how will you know what the folks who are managing are doing wrong? The best way to learn is from your mistakes. The safest way is to learn from someone else's.
Re:Masters=2 years experience (Score:5, Insightful)
I think that's optimistic. In some industries, it may well be true, but not computing. In this business, you take a guy with two years' professional development experience over a guy with two more years' academic experience for any non-research development position, because the proven track record and practical skills easily outweigh the same length of time invested in research and theoretical skills.
Higher degrees are good if you want to do research, or as a possible advantage later in your career, but everyone starts on the first rung or two of the ladder. As the parent post suggests, you're never getting up to the senior rungs right from the start no matter how good your academic record may be.
Re:Senior?? (Score:3, Interesting)
>I hope you don't get a "senior" level position.
The worst thing about that would be, moving into a senior position that the people below you didn't get promoted to.
Getting the job will be a lot easier than getting their respect.
Management has a whole different dynamic. People won't resent you for getting hired as a manager, but they sure will, if you fill some "senior" developer opening that the company didn't fill from the current pool.
You really don't want to be in a workplace where your whole tea