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Opera: Firefox User Figures 'Inflated'

CmdrTaco posted more than 9 years ago | from the soem-valid-points dept.

Mozilla 810

Anonymous Coward writes "ZDNet notes, 'The chief executive of Opera Software claimed on Monday that the market share figures for Mozilla Firefox are inflated, due to its support for link prefetching" In addition, "Opera has a better caching mechanism so it doesn't access Web sites as often as other browsers" and "Opera is configured by default to identify itself as Internet Explorer' "

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FP!!!!! (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12883193)

SUCK IT!

Re:FP!!!!! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12883281)

Wow, a first post by someone other than TripMasterMonkey. What's the world coming to?

This is Interesting (2, Funny)

ndansmith (582590) | more than 9 years ago | (#12883198)

To see folks from Opera trying to denegrate Firefox. You have to stick together to beat IE, then you can duke it out amongst yourselves!

Re:This is Interesting (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12883379)

Even though some may take that as joke, it is not necessarily true. Competition is competition. If I were Opera I would want to be better than Mozilla AND better than IE and any of the small fries (Konqueror). Even now, I don't see how "sticking together" with Mozilla would be in Opera's best interest. The standards for the Web are open, whoever implements them best should be acknowledged. Finally, if your main or only goal as a browser is to "beat IE" then as a browser you will ultimately fail.

Someone's jealous, methinks (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12883202)

Online penis envy, perhaps?

Re:Someone's jealous, methinks (5, Funny)

AtariAmarok (451306) | more than 9 years ago | (#12883336)

"Online penis envy, perhaps?"

I got something in my email inbox this morning which might help with this situation. Perhaps I should forward it to you.

First post (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12883206)

No way.

Re:First post (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12883322)

No. No way.

You fail it, loser.

he may be right, but (5, Funny)

oni (41625) | more than 9 years ago | (#12883208)

Opera is configured by default to identify itself as Internet Explorer

who's fault is that?

Re:he may be right, but (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12883241)

Nobodys... Opera can render IE pages just fine, but when configured to send an Opera user agent, some sites send malformed pages.

Re:he may be right, but (1)

RangerRick98 (817838) | more than 9 years ago | (#12883260)

but when configured to send an Opera user agent, some sites send malformed pages

Read: Microsoft websites

Re:he may be right, but (3, Insightful)

shinyplasticbag (670882) | more than 9 years ago | (#12883266)

I think that's irrelevant (I'm not trolling, it's just my opinion). Having the option to send a different user agent string is very handy, but it should definitely _not_ be the default action out of the box.

Re:he may be right, but (2, Interesting)

limon.verde (822978) | more than 9 years ago | (#12883249)

It's the webmasters who feed different pages to different browswer's fault.

Re:he may be right, but (5, Funny)

mahdi13 (660205) | more than 9 years ago | (#12883264)

If I ran around telling everyone my name is Frank, would it be a suprise to find out that nobody knows my name?

Re:he may be right, but (5, Funny)

pintomp3 (882811) | more than 9 years ago | (#12883313)

depends, is your name frank?

Re:he may be right, but (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12883317)

Is your name Frank?

Re:he may be right, but (0)

Rosco P. Coltrane (209368) | more than 9 years ago | (#12883350)

f I ran around telling everyone my name is Frank, would it be a suprise to find out that nobody knows my name?

Unless your name really is Frank...

Re:he may be right, but (1)

mahdi13 (660205) | more than 9 years ago | (#12883408)

It's Steve, thanks for asking :)

Re:he may be right, but (1)

kjeldor (146944) | more than 9 years ago | (#12883285)

There are some weird reasons to let Opera identify itself as Internet Explorer. For instance, years ago, I used to try to check my Hotmail account inside of Opera, and nothing loaded. When I switched Opera to make it identify itself as IE, Hotmail worked like a charm. I always thought that was very fishy.

Re:he may be right, but (4, Insightful)

bryan8m (863211) | more than 9 years ago | (#12883307)

That would mean that IE's market share figures are inflated too (mod me insightful)!

Viewing the User-Agent header (1)

Eric Giguere (42863) | more than 9 years ago | (#12883334)

See my HTTP Header Viewer [ericgiguere.com] tool to see what User-Agent header your browser is actually sending.

Eric

Re:he may be right, but (1)

erikkemperman (252014) | more than 9 years ago | (#12883385)

Opera is configured by default to
identify itself as Internet Explorer

who's fault is that?


Good question. Opera or MS?

Not Mozilla, though, that much for damn sure.

Hey (5, Funny)

kevin_conaway (585204) | more than 9 years ago | (#12883209)

Aren't you supposed to be swimming somewhere?

If that's true (2, Funny)

LandownEyes (838725) | more than 9 years ago | (#12883210)

I'll swim across the ocean!

WHAT!? (2, Funny)

Leiterfluid (876193) | more than 9 years ago | (#12883211)

The open source community inventing information!
Ce n'est possible!

Re:WHAT!? (1)

LittLe3Lue (819978) | more than 9 years ago | (#12883353)

Cest n'est pas possible, isnt it?

Sour grapes (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12883213)

Firefox is kicking Opera's ass and he knows it. Stop the whining and start competing.

Opera versus Firefox (1)

SamSeaborn (724276) | more than 9 years ago | (#12883214)

That Opera guy makes a point, if the browser identifies itself as IE it's had to get accurate stats.

Still, I tried Opera and I find it's interface cluttered and messy. Firefox is much leaner feeling, and has a much better tabbed-browsing implementation, IMO.

Sam

Re:Opera versus Firefox (2, Informative)

Eric Giguere (42863) | more than 9 years ago | (#12883395)

Relying on the headers the browser sends to figure out stats on browser usage is a dicey proposition at best. A statistically significant survey of Internet users would yield better results, but who's going to pay for that?

Eric
Descriptions of my books [ericgiguere.com]

first post (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12883217)

i own you

Re:first post (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12883247)

YOU FAIL IT!! Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.... *cough*

strange math (5, Insightful)

kingjosh (792336) | more than 9 years ago | (#12883218)

If Opera is identifying itself as IE, isn't IE getting overcounted and Opera undercounted?

Whose fault is it? (3, Insightful)

smooth wombat (796938) | more than 9 years ago | (#12883219)

"Opera is configured by default to identify itself as Internet Explorer' "

And whose fault is that? Maybe if you would default your browser to itself rather than trying to pass itself off as someone else the statistics would show an even deeper drop in IEs marketshare and an increase in your share.

Re:Whose fault is it? (4, Interesting)

Roofus (15591) | more than 9 years ago | (#12883274)

Well, it could potentially show how *little* Opera is actually used by comparison. If that's the case, I think the Opera guys would rather keep that number hidden so the can say "We've got many, many users, and if we didn't hide ourselves as IE, you'd see how mighty we are!"

I'm not saying that's the case, but the thought came to mind....and for the record I actually purchased a copy of Opera a few years ago.

They're bragging? (1)

dgos78 (881140) | more than 9 years ago | (#12883223)

About how their browser identifies itself as IE? A-HAHAHAHA!!!

Identify (1)

teiresias (101481) | more than 9 years ago | (#12883227)

"Opera is configured by default to identify itself as Internet Explorer' "

so why not identify yourself as Opera? Why not take a chunk out of IE's numbers and not Firefoxes?

Re:Identify (1)

zthx1138 (586648) | more than 9 years ago | (#12883338)

"so why not identify yourself as Opera?"

Because some websites won't let you in or give you content unless they think you have an IE browser.

Re:Identify (5, Interesting)

OldSchoolNapster (744443) | more than 9 years ago | (#12883383)

Many sites have all sorts of BS warning popups, redirects, and restrictions on browsers other than IE (often not placing restrictions on firefox btw) even though they render and work just fine in Opera. The folks at Opera have decided that the user experience is more important than their stats.

Anyone know if Opera is now or ever has been a profitable company? I really hope so, because even with low stats a profitable browser company that competes with both free bundled IE and free firefox makes a powerful statement.

Now why? (1)

kc0re (739168) | more than 9 years ago | (#12883228)

Now that's just stupid to identify itself as Explorer. It's NOT explorer, it's Opera. If Opera hadn't had made such a stupid remark in their code to do that by default, we would have accurate numbers.

Re:Now why? (1)

sonofagunn (659927) | more than 9 years ago | (#12883252)

They identify as Opera to provide their users a better experience. Many sites pop up error messages or don't let you in if you don't identify as IE (or Mozilla).

Re:Now why? (2, Informative)

RangerRick98 (817838) | more than 9 years ago | (#12883306)

I can't recall any website that I've been to in Firefox that didn't let me in because I wasn't using IE. Perhaps I just don't go to the same sites that you do, but I'd think that if "many sites" exhibited that behavior, I'd see at least one of them.

Re:Now why? (1)

sonofagunn (659927) | more than 9 years ago | (#12883351)

My online bank required IE (wouldn't even let Mozilla in) for a long time. They have very recently begun letting any browser through.

I work for a company that sells web applications and we have an IE only policy (unfortunately).

In related news.... (1, Insightful)

A beautiful mind (821714) | more than 9 years ago | (#12883229)

Buggy whip manufacturer calls automobiles a "passing fad".

Re:In related news.... (1)

bobbyw (890344) | more than 9 years ago | (#12883330)

it's the ZEPPLINS that are going to be taking us from place to place! in the sky!!

Who cares? (1)

ravenspear (756059) | more than 9 years ago | (#12883230)

If Opera wants to configure their browser to look like IE, that's their loss and they shouldn't gripe that they don't show up as well in usage statistics as Firefox.

Awww (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12883234)

Sounds like somebody didn't have their nap this afternoon

Thanks Opera! (4, Interesting)

Rosco P. Coltrane (209368) | more than 9 years ago | (#12883235)

Opera is configured by default to identify itself as Internet Explorer

In other words, they provide skewed data that helps Microsoft present itself as leader of the browser market. That's intelligent, way to go. At least you could have picked up a F/OSS browser to masquerade Opera...

Double-click (5, Interesting)

FTL (112112) | more than 9 years ago | (#12883236)

There's another factor at work. IE and Opera both understand that many users double-click everything they see. These browsers filter out the double clicks. Mozilla on the other hand fires off two requests. Thus doubling its market share.

Bug 55279 tried to fix this five years ago. But the feeling was that Mozilla users were smarter than the average user and wouldn't do this (which may have been true back then). Bug 238159 attempted to address just one aspect of the problem, double-clicking submit forms (which causes tons of race conditions). But again, nobody seems to care.

Re:Double-click (1)

Rosco P. Coltrane (209368) | more than 9 years ago | (#12883282)

Mozilla on the other hand fires off two requests. Thus doubling its market share.

That argument doesn't hold water, as anybody who gets bitten by the too-many-clicks effect quickly learns not to double-click on a link. In less than 10 minutes, if I can trust what I saw with people switching from Windows to KDE.

Re:Double-click (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12883364)

I still have website QA folks doing this for over 5 years.

Re:Double-click (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12883376)

bahahaha... riiiiight.

It takes, what, two seconds to stop double clicking. I have never once seen anyone double click on a web-page. Even newbies don't do that.

Sour grapes? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12883237)

It's still Mozilla fetching the page. Unless someone comes up with a metric that counts pages read by human being, the statistics are going to lie, but like accurately.

Wine (1)

alecks (473298) | more than 9 years ago | (#12883239)

As any child would say... 'would you like some cheese with that whine?'

Believe him? (1)

AKAImBatman (238306) | more than 9 years ago | (#12883242)

Like we're going to believe a guy who couldn't even swim the Atlantic. [opera.com]

These are just wild claims at the moment. If he believes that the numbers are overrated, then he needs to look into the data collection methods used. Which I'm not certain why he'd do that anyway. A user who isn't using IE is a user who's more open to alternatives. Inflated FireFox numbers could help adoption of BOTH browsers.

Oh please... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12883245)

Link prefetching influences market share estimates? That is about as ridiculous as the claim that Opera users don't show up in statistics because they set the user agent to IE. How many of the relevant sites which publish statistics even use link prefetching?

Link prefetching? (2)

TERdON (862570) | more than 9 years ago | (#12883250)

I wasn't aware Firefox was prefetching links. Is this part of the standard distribution of Firefox or is it as usual an addon?

BTW, the same could be said about IE but because of another reason... It does visit a whole buttload of pages, which the user never asked it to go to...

Re:Link prefetching? (4, Informative)

DeadSea (69598) | more than 9 years ago | (#12883387)

It is standard behaviour in Firefox but its not as bad as the article suggests.

Firefox only prefetches links when the links are marked on the previous site as "hey you might want to prefetch this".

Specifically on Google, only the top result is marked as prefetch. And even then, only when Google has determined that most visitors would choose it. Google has said that they mark it for things such as prefetching cnn.com when somebody searches for "CNN".

The article states: "...which means that Firefox will pre-load the top search results into its cache." which is innacurate. It should say "...which means that Firefox will pre-load the top search result into its cache when Google thinks there is a very high probability you will visit the first result."

Currency exchange rate calculator and foreign exchange converter [coinmill.com]

Switcher (1)

FuzzzyLogik (592766) | more than 9 years ago | (#12883251)

I'm not sure, don't most website statistics count an IP address once and call it a unique visit for x number of hours? So how does that count into this? So what, the browser is snagging data from the website before it's needed.. that would only count as 1 hit.. the prefetching i could see, but that STILL gives you an idea of how many users there are out there even if they aren't viewing your site.

As a recent switcher to Opera. I must say I like it more than FireFox/Mozilla. I had used Mozilla since the .9x series and loved it. But the interface is horribly slow. I do miss the extensions in Opera, but the extremely fast rendering, low memory footprint, and blindingly fast mouse gestures just rock. not to mention you can navigate through just about any page with just the keyboard.

Re:Switcher (2, Interesting)

ScentCone (795499) | more than 9 years ago | (#12883392)

don't most website statistics count an IP address once and call it a unique visit for x number of hours?

Not if they want to count correctly. Take, for example, the handful of IP addresses that represent AOL's proxies. Thousands of unique visitors could be behind the traffic from half a dozen IP addresses. For many corporate networks (hell, or schools, for that matter), you could easily have a few hundred surfers popping out of the firewall on a single IP address. Nope... to track visitors you've got to look at what they do, or hope they'll take a cookie.

Erm .. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12883255)

Shouldn't he be preparing to swim the atlantic or something?

yeah... (1)

Macgyveric (879573) | more than 9 years ago | (#12883256)

Who actually WANTS to be associated with internet explorer?

stupid (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12883257)

why the hell would you want your browser identified as IE? you're just telling lazy developers that IE is still the only thing they need to pay attention to. leave it as your actual browser identification and tell them what's what.

Opera isn't over until the fat lady swims (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12883261)

Opera isn't over until the fat lady swims

Forgot a reason for Opras Low stats. (2, Insightful)

jellomizer (103300) | more than 9 years ago | (#12883263)

No one really uses it.
Well yea there are some die hards and I am sure it is a great Browser and all. But with firefox as a viable free alternitive without the adds why bother.

Who cares about the technical details? (4, Insightful)

lazuli42 (219080) | more than 9 years ago | (#12883265)

What the heck is this guy von Tetzchner smoking? Doesn't he realize yet that nobody cares about the technical details? People (web developers, plugin writers, users) only care about the big numbers. They don't want to think about the results, they only want to know: who is first, and by how much? Is the second place browser big enough to notice?

Opera is nice, but the Opera execs should realize already that they can't sell their browser when their customers can download a perfectly good one for free.

Opera - IE in disguise? (1)

sglider (648795) | more than 9 years ago | (#12883267)

Opera is configured by default to identify itself as Internet Explorer'
*Why* in the world would a company want their browser to show up as Internet Explorer? The only possible reason is so that websites don't cough when it asks for 'IE 6.x or better', and even that is a thing of the (not so distant) past. Web developers *should* be developing across the board, not just for the IE group.

Even worse for Opera is the fact that since their browsers are supposed to show up as IE, they are inflating IE's statistics, and lowering their own, in effect, shooting themselves in the foot.

Re:Opera - IE in disguise? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12883381)

Web developers *should* be developing across the board, not just for the IE group.

Hmm.. No they shouldn't. Web browsers should all follow the same standard and render a page the same way. Why is it web developers fault that a page cannot render in one web browser but in another?

Re:Opera - IE in disguise? (1)

FuzzzyLogik (592766) | more than 9 years ago | (#12883402)

Not necessarily. THey're making more than enough money to keep the company going, and it's expanding. With that said, your precious web statistics don't mean squat to most people. If the browser works it works, they're making more money than ever and are profitable. So how is it they're shooting themselves in the foot?

developers don't develop for all browsers still. that's the point. that is the ONLY thing that identifying as IE might cause problems with.

grapes (1)

Mr. Underbridge (666784) | more than 9 years ago | (#12883268)

Hate 'em. Too damned sour.

opera does this, opera does that... (1)

l3v1 (787564) | more than 9 years ago | (#12883269)

...it's all just excuses. Don't get me wrong, I think Opera is a great browser (I constantly have and use konqueror, firefox, mozilla, opera, in this order). Still, these kinds of "arguments" are just pointless and useless. Try something else, something which can make Opera rank higher, 'cause this ain't.

I wonder... (1)

PunkOfLinux (870955) | more than 9 years ago | (#12883271)

Ok... But still. Firefox has done better. And how are they supposed to conduct a true survey? Go into people's homes and watch what they use?
And... why exactly does it need to do that, in the modern era? Why identify yourself as internet explorer? THERE SHOULD BE ABSOLUTELY NO NEED TO.

consequently.. (2, Funny)

PopeAlien (164869) | more than 9 years ago | (#12883273)

..the next version of Opera will identify itself as Opera, prefetch all links, reload pages every 5 seconds, and randomly email links to the Opera download page to present a more balanced picture of market share.

Re:consequently.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12883406)

But then Opera will not only be identifying itself as IE, it will also be acting like an ad-infected IE client too. :)

In a related note, I suspect that the whole popup advertising problem in IE may be a contributing factor in its figures.

Old News (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12883275)

Welcome to yesterday morning's news [broadbandreports.com] , Slashdot.

While I don't expect cutting edge anymore (and haven't for some time), I at least expect something within 48 hours before the news is old and tired [zdnet.co.uk] . Things move fast on t3h int4rw3b.

Reeks of desperation.... (1)

gadgetbox (872707) | more than 9 years ago | (#12883280)

I don't have a particular bias towards or against any browser, but the comments made by the CEO of Opera do make it seem like he is clutching at straws...."A lot of people don't like our ads, which is sad as we don't have a rich sugar daddy like the Mozilla Foundation. They [the Mozilla Firefox team] don't have to think about money as they're being funded. We're not being funded," said von Tetzchner

I mean, come on...is that really necessary? Perhaps he should focus on improving his browser, instead of wasting time and energy (and press exposure) by bashing the competition.

Partially right (1)

giorgiofr (887762) | more than 9 years ago | (#12883288)

While it's certainly true that Opera's share is way underestimated, because it identifies itself as MSIE most of the times and because it does a wonderful job of caching pages in memory (I'd love the fox to perform just as well), I don't really think FF's share is inflated that much because of the preloading mechanism. It's not used as much as to actually skew the numbers either direction.
I mean, I've just sniffed my own traffic and it didn't even try to prelink anything from Google; so, I haven't looked deep into the config but it's abviously not a default behaviour on v.1.0.4.

Yeah well... (2, Interesting)

ajservo (708572) | more than 9 years ago | (#12883301)

I like Opera, don't get me wrong. It had features back in the day that no one had, and it's still a great browser. Heck, I'm posting this from Opera.

BUT! Opera's unfortunately never going to be taken as a serious contender.

The fact that they force themselves to identify the software to websites as IE should be telling enough. I can't log into my freakin' bank account from Opera. I can't check Gmail from Opera. If it's being seen as IE, why isn't this working?

What's it going to take for Opera to stop this practice and get enough credibility behind it to get this stigma/limitation to go away?

I can't even call local tech support people without someone not knowing what Opera is.

Distance yourself from IE, or being like IE. That's a starting recommendation.

Re:Yeah well... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12883347)

Can't use gmail from Opera? Time to upgrade, maybe..?

Reaching (1)

Fallen Seraph (808728) | more than 9 years ago | (#12883305)

Sounds to me like someone's grasping at straws.

Why? (4, Interesting)

natron 2.0 (615149) | more than 9 years ago | (#12883311)

FTFA:

"A lot of people don't like our ads, which is sad as we don't have a rich sugar daddy like the Mozilla Foundation. They [the Mozilla Firefox team] don't have to think about money as they're being funded. We're not being funded," said von Tetzchner.

Rich Suger Daddy?!? No. Firefox users feel generous enough to donate to the foundation to help support a great FREE browser. This type of competition bashing is not good for business.

Two ways of looking at it (1)

alexwcovington (855979) | more than 9 years ago | (#12883312)

Websites can and do treat you differently if you don't use IE. You can either make the web designers feel bad for not supporting other browsers, like Firefox, or avoid the problem by identifying yourself as IE, like Opera. I prefer the latter because it's less work.

Opera underreported, IE overreported (1)

WillAffleckUW (858324) | more than 9 years ago | (#12883318)

Every Windows machine has IE on it, so it counts, and IE prefetches a lot of gunk you didn't ask for - especially if you don't have SpyBot or AdAware to find the cruft on your system.

But when I use Opera I frequently tell it to pretend it's IE when I surf a site so that it won't give me garbage. I only turn on scripts and popups when I need them on a site, to be safe. But that does count as an IE hit, when it's really an Opera hit.

Firefox I just let be Firefox, since enough sites know how to handle it.

So, it's not so much that Firefox is overreported, as it is that Opera is underreported, and IE is overreported even when I'm NOT USING IT!

Surprise? (1)

div_2n (525075) | more than 9 years ago | (#12883320)

The head of a company of a prduct competing with a free version says something negative about the competition and this is a surprise?

I think it would have been downright shocking had he said that he felt Firefox was great and was well poised to take over the market. You only get that level of honesty from someone who doesn't have a stake in the game.

IN OTHER NEWS (1)

bman08 (239376) | more than 9 years ago | (#12883325)

...Those grapes were sour anyway.

And this.... (1)

commo1 (709770) | more than 9 years ago | (#12883327)

And this from the guy who said he'd swim from Norway to the US.

Oh right. Opera is much more popular (1)

winkydink (650484) | more than 9 years ago | (#12883328)

Analyzing the ststs from networkmirror.com foe Jun, I see:

Mozilla 77%
IE 18%
Opera 0.78% (sum of all versions identifying themseleves as such)

Opera is a mere blip.

FIREFOX figures inflated??? (1)

ArielMT (757715) | more than 9 years ago | (#12883329)

This from the maker of a Web browser that by default inflates IE's figures, by coming "out of the box" pre-configured to report itself--not as Opera-- but as Microsoft Internet Explorer!

Remove the plank from your own eye, Opera, before saying Firefox has a speck in its eye. Need help? [gospelcom.net]

Smart? (1)

Ichtys (841582) | more than 9 years ago | (#12883340)

Identifying one self as IE when you are in fact Opera is like identifying one self as a small green puddle of goo when you are in fact a Rolex watch. A fake one though... but still useable.

True (1)

cloudkj (685320) | more than 9 years ago | (#12883342)

Everyone and their moms are starting to use Firefox now. Even the most tech-unsavvy people I know exclaim "you don't use Firefox?!?" to people that haven't jumped on the bandwagon. Yet most of them don't have a clue as to the advantages of Firefox over IE. To them, it's just a fad. Sooner or later, when security breaches are focused more on the Firefox browser, these people that blindly jumped on the bandwagon will just suffer the same consequences before.

If they're inflated... (1)

xENoLocO (773565) | more than 9 years ago | (#12883348)

... then why do my non-geek network's browser stats reflect firefox as high as 20%?

Linkage [fuelempire.com]

This is wholly inaccurate (4, Funny)

suitepotato (863945) | more than 9 years ago | (#12883359)

With suitable proxies, you can make Lynx look like Internet Explorer. Of course the wrong service pack will make Internet Explorer behave like Lynx.

Caching (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12883360)

Opera has a better caching mechanism so it doesn't access Web sites as often as other browsers

Wouldn't it still have to access the sites to figure out that the content it has cached is still valid (otherwise I don't know that I would call it a "better" caching mechanism).

von Tetzchner needs to take a swim too (1)

Dracos (107777) | more than 9 years ago | (#12883365)

Are all the Opera execs on crack?

How the hell can link prefetching inflate usage numbers? A prefetched page gets logged more than once?

If they want to get credited with accurate usage, their product needs to stop identifying itself as IE.

He mentions in the article that some people don't like the ads, which is true. They could also improve Opera's bizarre (imo) interface.

This is backwards.... (1)

SkidWilly (145531) | more than 9 years ago | (#12883370)

Just because Opera's statistics are incorrectly represented, it doesn't mean that Firefox's numbers are inflated...

Aren't all market share numbers hyped? (4, Insightful)

amichalo (132545) | more than 9 years ago | (#12883377)

Aren't all market share numbers hyped?

I bet I have reinstalled Windows 10 times in the past few years, and each time I update IE and download several other software packages over and over again.

And as far as actual web usage, those stats must be all over the place because some sites do a better job of cross browser compatibility than others and other sites, like Slashdot, appeal to a non-IE crowd while still others, like MSN, do not.

So this whole article should really just be a reminder to not believe everything someone else wants you to.

Re:Aren't all market share numbers hyped? (2, Interesting)

WillAffleckUW (858324) | more than 9 years ago | (#12883391)

every time I buy a new computer, they record it as a Windows sale, except for the Mac, and then if I replace it as Linux it's usually not recorded as a sale, since it's easy to burn the CDs.

So, yes, all market shares are hyped.

Who cares? (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12883380)

They both still suck bloody asshole, just like Linus and all the other faggot OSS zealots.

Can't We All Just Get Along (2, Insightful)

jeff_schiller (877821) | more than 9 years ago | (#12883382)

I think the "who actually uses it" argument is a good one. As a web developer I have installed IE6, Fx1.1 and O8 and I test on all. I think Opera 8 is a great browser, especially since it's the first to support native SVG rendering, but my regular browser is still Firefox, as I find the ads in O8 at the top distracting.

Of course, this little snippet from Opera isn't a response to the enormous success of Firefox at all, is it? Opera is envious of how Firefox became the darling of the internet community and threads like this [opera.com] prove that they still don't understand why (hint: clean, crisp interface and a lot of word of mouth)

It's odd that the CEO of a for-profit company whines that they don't have a not-for-profit "sugar-daddy" like MoFo. Who funds MoFo? Isn't it a not-for-profit company (I'm not sure if AOL still does any funding there)?

It's also odd that they are whining about setting the user string agent to IE's when they are doing it to themselves.

Quick survey (4, Interesting)

Leroy_Brown242 (683141) | more than 9 years ago | (#12883396)

You walk down the street,a nd ask people what the computer program Opera does, you'd get no answer in 100.

You do the same thing with Firefox, and people know what you're talking about as mcu as they don't.

I don't need any hard stats and figures to know that Firefox has made a more profound impact on people and the internet than many other things in a long time.

(To: Opera) (Body: Why?) (1)

Iriel (810009) | more than 9 years ago | (#12883404)

Before I'm declared as redundant, I'm trying to clarify the point that has been screamed out already.

What baffles me the most about Opera being identified as IE has nothing to do with market share or overall browser dominance. It confuses me because Opera is written to be standards compliant. I don't care if they identify themselves as The Enemy but I can't see it being any benefit to Opera to associate their browser with one that goes against everything Opera stands for. I would have thought that it would be more likely to identify itself as Mozilla or in its own classification so as to tell everyone "X percent of the market uses the only browser to (soon if not already) pass the Acid2 test."

I'm not confused by the market share, but rather the question of identity and the quest for compliance with standards versus proprietary stagnation.
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