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Windows XP N a Bust

Zonk posted more than 9 years ago | from the new-version-of-vanilla dept.

Windows 310

mushupork writes "CNN has an interesting article about the just-released Windows XP N. From the article: 'Computer distributors and manufacturers are so far showing little interest in the new product, which compels consumers to choose their media player and download it from the Internet.' Could this open some eyes and increase interest in alternative (Linux, Mac) offerings?" Similar to an earlier article about the same issue from the PC Makers end.

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regurgitated (3, Informative)

That's Unpossible! (722232) | more than 9 years ago | (#12904832)

sounds familiar [slashdot.org]

News.com.com.com.com vs. CNN (1)

tepples (727027) | more than 9 years ago | (#12904922)

Cnet reported it the first time. I'll hazard a guess that the news here is that the news has spread to CNN, which has a more mainstream readership than Cnet.

Hmmm... (4, Funny)

aardwolf64 (160070) | more than 9 years ago | (#12904977)

Note to self...
1. Browse old story at +5 Funny
2. Post +5 Funny comments here verbatim
3. Watch Karma go through the roof
4. ???
5. Profit!

Re:Hmmm... (2, Informative)

bedroll (806612) | more than 9 years ago | (#12905010)

Have you read the FAQ about Karma [slashdot.org] ?

Obviously your business plan is flawed a step sooner than most.

Re:Hmmm... (1)

aardwolf64 (160070) | more than 9 years ago | (#12905065)

Yeah yeah... mine is already maxed out. I was just being silly. :P

Re:Hmmm... (1)

bedroll (806612) | more than 9 years ago | (#12905110)

Mine is not, and I was being a buzzkill.

Go Figure

Re:regurgitated (3, Funny)

Otter (3800) | more than 9 years ago | (#12904995)

The original story's Obligatory Stupid and Inflammatory Tagline, "Perhaps the EU's actions were unnecessary?" was insufficiently stupid. Fortunately, today's "Could this open some eyes and increase interest in alternative (Linux, Mac) offerings?" is entirely up to par.

A bust? (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12905014)

A bust? I call it bullshit. If it can make the homepage of Slashdot twice in less than 10 days it must be a BURSTING thriving success.

Why would it? (5, Insightful)

XanC (644172) | more than 9 years ago | (#12904834)

Could this open some eyes and increase interest in alternative (Linux, Mac) offerings?

Why would it? I think it'll open their eyes to how much "good" Microsoft's bundling does for them.

Where is Marketing when you need them?!? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12904943)

I think it'll open their eyes to how much "good" Microsoft's bundling does for them.

Not necessarily. If they had coordinated the release of details about yet another attack vector against the OS opened by Windows Media, they'd probably see much better uptake on their offering.

Re:Why would it? (1)

MikeDataLink (536925) | more than 9 years ago | (#12905189)

Yeah... It's no different than buying a car without a radio. The general public has no desire to do that. They want it included.

Re:Why would it? (1)

Azadre (632442) | more than 9 years ago | (#12905217)

So should Microsoft include an extremely crippled "radio", or is it up to the third parties to make a "radio" worth installing and using? Innovate or die. See iTunes for an example of innovation.

Re:Why would it? (1)

Basehart (633304) | more than 9 years ago | (#12905219)

Putting the letter "N" on the label is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard of.

Msfts lawyers must have been laughing their heads off when this "punishment" was handed down.

I doubt it (2, Interesting)

winkydink (650484) | more than 9 years ago | (#12904839)

Why would the (lack of) avilability of a media player influence my OS decision?

Typical /. (5, Funny)

fbg111 (529550) | more than 9 years ago | (#12904912)

Humpty-dumpty sat on a wall and had a great fall. Could this open some eyes and increase interest in alternative (Linux, Mac) offerings?

Re:Typical /. (1)

repruhsent (672799) | more than 9 years ago | (#12904925)

Best post I've read this week. I truly lol'd.

New meme? (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12904945)


Humpty-dumpty sat on a wall and had a great fall. Could this open some eyes and increase interest in alternative (Linux, Mac) offerings?

This could be the next slashdot meme.

Step 1. Repeat the headline

Step 2. Append "Could this open some eyes and increase interest in alternative (Linux, Mac) offerings?".

Example: New Independent Lego Journal Launches. Could this open some eyes and increase interest in alternative (Linux, Mac) offerings?

Re:I doubt it (5, Insightful)

defkkon (712076) | more than 9 years ago | (#12904924)

Now if you (a slashdot reader/poster) is saying this, imagine what the average joe user is thinking?

I'm not surprised there is little interest in this. Many manufacturers realize what their customers care about - after all, that's why they're still in business.

You ask the average person whether they want Windows XP with or without Media Player to allow a free choice, and they'll probably look at you like you have two heads.

Why? They don't care! They hardly care what OS they have PERIOD. All they want is for their office applications to work, for their email application to work, and their web browser to work.

Not only do they not care, but the moment they try to listen to an audio file or watch a video, they're going to be pissed that their computer "can't do it" out of the box.

Re:I doubt it (1)

bedroll (806612) | more than 9 years ago | (#12904978)

None when there's no financial benefit in it.

The N version should be forced as the only available version in Europe or they should be forced to sell it at a discount compared to "regular" XP.

XP N should be sold at a discount? LOL (1)

I'm Don Giovanni (598558) | more than 9 years ago | (#12905163)

"The N version should be forced as the only available version in Europe or they should be forced to sell it at a discount compared to "regular" XP."

This was proposed but nobody could come up with a reasonable forumla for what the discount should be.
First of all, WMP is available for free at microsoft's site. So what should the discount be for an OS that's stripped of a free component? Logic would say that the discount should be zero.

Even if you don't accept that, how much should the discount be? Someone proposed that XP N's price should be lower than XP's by the same proportion that XP N's number of bytes is lower than XP's. Unfortunately, this would still result in a discount of (virtually) zero.

Re:I doubt it (2, Insightful)

loconet (415875) | more than 9 years ago | (#12905004)

See, what I find interesting is that I'm sure the poster _also_ knows the sole availability of a media player is a highly unlikely influence when choosing an OS but for some reason I have noticed that it is trendy (necessary?) to plug a pro-Linux/OSS comment somewhere in a /. article summary even if it is far fetched as this one.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not too hapy with Microsoft actions sometimes either and as a developer, I use Linux/OSS whenever I see it fit because of its technical and non-technical values but can we try not throw random irrelevant comments whenever a new piece of news is shared? I'm sure we can come up with a better way of letting people know of alternatives without appearing as brainless zealots.

Re:I doubt it (2, Insightful)

gooogle (643307) | more than 9 years ago | (#12905097)

> Why would the (lack of) avilability of a media player influence my OS decision?

It would influence your decision on the OS versions: N vs XP. I don't think anyone would want a degraded eXPerience when they can get the OS bundled with Media Player.

Re:I doubt it (1)

abdu (611723) | more than 9 years ago | (#12905121)

When someone buys a PC, all they ask is "Does it come with Windows?" If yes, then conversation closed. They don't ask if a media player or wordpad or a browser are included. They know Windows comes with a lot of features and if something is missing they can simply d/l it.

Re:I doubt it (1)

(H)elix1 (231155) | more than 9 years ago | (#12905204)

Why would the (lack of) avilability of a media player influence my OS decision?

I know I gave Linux distros the cold sholder because they made it hard to play MP3's. Yes, you could get it to work, but heck - I'm lazy! Sometimes it can be something that mickey mouse....

Only alternative? (4, Insightful)

moz25 (262020) | more than 9 years ago | (#12904848)

Would there be a point in ordering that the N version is the only one allowed to be sold in Europe? Obviously, there won't be much interest in a stripped down version of the same product, especially if the old product is still available.

Re:Only alternative? (1)

Ithika (703697) | more than 9 years ago | (#12904956)

I always thought this was the case. What is the point of enforcing something, if you let the person carry on with the illegal activity at the same time?

Re:Only alternative? (1)

knopf (894888) | more than 9 years ago | (#12905145)

Ahhh, the green is so much more cosy than the much hated blue.

That's a good (only) reason to buy this version, since you get the media player with the next automated update anyways ;-)

Uh... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12904849)

Could this open some eyes and increase interest in alternative (Linux, Mac) offerings?

Uh, didn't you just say there was little interest?

No. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12904853)

Could this open some eyes and increase interest in alternative (Linux, Mac) offerings?
What? No, it couldn't. Why on Earth should it? People want to buy Windows XP with Windows Media Player in it, not XP without Windows Media Player in it. Nothing to do with Linux or Mac.

answers.... (2, Insightful)

Mad_Rain (674268) | more than 9 years ago | (#12904854)

Could this open some eyes and increase interest in alternative (Linux, Mac) offerings?

No. Next question?

Media Player? (3, Insightful)

turtled (845180) | more than 9 years ago | (#12904855)

which compels consumers to choose their media player and download it from the Internet.' Could this open some eyes and increase interest in alternative (Linux, Mac) offerings?"

I didn't think the media player was the onlything keeping users of Windows XP or any version. To me, it is compatability with current programs such as Office and Adobe products, and there are attractive alternatives. Media players? Eh, there are 100s of media players for all platforms, it's not that big of deal.

right (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12904951)

We don't have Office or Adobe products on OS X. It makes me so mad!

Re:Media Player? (2, Insightful)

Otter (3800) | more than 9 years ago | (#12904975)

In any case, there's also Windows XP *with* WMP, available for the same price. I don't think the submitter realizes that, but his notion that people will switch operating systems (or hardware platforms!) rather than download a media player underscores why no consumer with an ounce of sanity would buy Windows XP N.

Huh? (2, Insightful)

Telastyn (206146) | more than 9 years ago | (#12904856)

Could this open some eyes and increase interest in alternative (Linux, Mac) offerings?

Huh? Why would the fact that people are not interested in choosing their software package push people towards linux, where that unwanted feature is commonplace!??!

Re:Huh? (3, Insightful)

forgoil (104808) | more than 9 years ago | (#12905031)

Exactly. People who want a different browser/mediaplayer/whatever is going to get it anyway. Those who don't give a shit about these things (lets face it, they aren't computergeeks such as we are) are only going to say "why the fuck can't I play videos now?" and don't care at all that there are other players out there.

People wants the bundled stuff, they are just happy that they don't have to call their computer geek friends to read email or watch some porn^H^H^H^Hmovies. This is just a pain to normal users, and doesn't change windows. Tax payers money badly spent, again. Could have spent all that money on, let's say, universities that could have produced free software...

WHAT?!?! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12904864)

It only said people were more interested in WindowsXP with Media Player..
Given the same price, would you take the car with stereo or car without stereo?

Weren't OEM's B*tching About This w/r/t Browsers? (5, Insightful)

ewhac (5844) | more than 9 years ago | (#12904865)

Hmm. Maybe the OEMs could -- gee, I don't know -- pre-install a media player of their choice. I seem to recall a big criminal lawsuit a while back when OEMs wanted to pre-install this newfangled thing called a Web browser, but Microsoft wouldn't let them.

Did the OEMs suddenly lose all their imagination? Or are there not as many "partership" opportunities with media players?

Schwab

Re:Weren't OEM's B*tching About This w/r/t Browser (1)

rwise2112 (648849) | more than 9 years ago | (#12904938)

As far as I know they do. I used to work with Compaq and all the Presarios from up until HP took over had Real Player, and a lot had Musicmatch Jukebox. Even Netscape was bundled on a lot, if not all, models.

HP and Dell do pre-install other media players (1)

I'm Don Giovanni (598558) | more than 9 years ago | (#12904971)

HP pre-installs iTunes as the default audio player.
Dell (depending on the model and buying options) pre-installs their "Dell Medie Experience" app (which sucks) as the default DVD and CD player.

So OEMs can and do install other media players. But in neither of the above cases, do they remove WMP (by selling XP N), and why should they?

Re:Weren't OEM's B*tching About This w/r/t Browser (1)

SeventyBang (858415) | more than 9 years ago | (#12904994)

And don't forget when Microsoft sold space on the desktop to those who wanted their products preplaced there.

ARGH! (1, Insightful)

Spy der Mann (805235) | more than 9 years ago | (#12904870)

It's not about CHOOSING which version of Windows you prefer.
It's about The users HAVING TO CHOOSE which software they download.

And if they complain "hey, this doesn't include media player!", you can answer: "It's illegal for monopoly". Then they'll be FORCED to choose and download a product. Yes, sounds sad, but Microsoft FORCED them not to choose in the same way.

The XP N idea won't work if the old version is still available. Doh.

Re:ARGH! (1)

eqkivaro (721746) | more than 9 years ago | (#12904927)

Microsoft FORCED them not to choose in the same way
Funny. I have XP and I was still able to download Winamp. What is Microsoft forcing me to do?

Re:ARGH! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12904958)

It isn't about consumers directly - it's about MS being able to say to the media stores "use our DRM, it's already useable on 95%+ of home computers shipped!" which fucks over competitors in this area, because of the way MS has been illegally using their monopoly.

Re:ARGH! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12904954)

but Microsoft FORCED them not to choose in the same way
How did they do that?

They gave away a media player with their OS. There are still other Media Players to choose from. I myself prefer Media Player Classic, especially with Quicktime Alternative and RealPlayer Alternative, (As well as the BBC version of RealPlayer for the RM files (Which I hate) that RP Alternative can't handle). Sounds to me like there's plenty of choice out there.

Re: and what of Ubuntu and OS X? (1)

aixou (756713) | more than 9 years ago | (#12905054)

Yes, sounds sad, but Microsoft FORCED them not to choose in the same way.

Gee, that's funny. In the same vein as which you speak, Ubuntu "forced" me to use Totem, and OS X "forced" me to use Quicktime.
How terribly awful. Let's take pitchforks to their respective HQs and demand action!

What does it matter that MS bundles Windows Media Player? I mean, seriously, for the love of god, who really cares? There are so many more things to worry about or to take a critical eye at than something as trivial as a bundled media player (as it's something that pretty much ALL OS distributors do).

Can someone provide me a sound rationale for why the EU decided that such action was necessary? Was it purely a matter of principle?

Re:ARGH! (1)

geekee (591277) | more than 9 years ago | (#12905101)

" It's not about CHOOSING which version of Windows you prefer.
It's about The users HAVING TO CHOOSE which software they download.

And if they complain "hey, this doesn't include media player!", you can answer: "It's illegal for monopoly". Then they'll be FORCED to choose and download a product. Yes, sounds sad, but Microsoft FORCED them not to choose in the same way.

The XP N idea won't work if the old version is still available. Doh."

That is the dumbest thing I've heard in awhile. Lack of bundling only helps MS competitors and hurts consumers. If someone else can provide a media player that actually is significantly better than the MS one, people would download it. If not, then why hassle them? Unless you have an agenda to make life miserable for MS, which is what I suspect is your real motive. Given this is /., probably so. What's amusing is that /. supposedly doesn't like trolls or flamebait, but has MS icons on the front page that clearly contradict this philosophy.

Re:The REAL tragady of P2P (1)

sillybilly (668960) | more than 9 years ago | (#12905232)

The real idea here is to turn software into a service, not a product, so they can send you a monthly bill just like the phone, electric and other companies do, and have a sure source of income even if they sit on their butt and do nothing, them being proud entrepreneurs, but you being chastized if you sit on your butt and do nothing and still get an income. The method of revenue based on getting people to "upgrade, upgrade, upgrade" is running out of steam. And "unfortunately" not enough users use Windows Update, to keep their OS up to date, and I'm sure studies show that if you forced them to pay a monthly fee for it, 95%+ would simply reject it and stick with their current Win98SE+Firefox, even in face of overblown security threats.

So, to rectify all this, they pitch this new idea, because monkey see, monkey do. They have to show you the way it's done, and lead you through a tutorial on how to update your OS. For now you pay for the disk when you get XP, then download stuff for free, but the real goal is to ultimately give you a free boot floppy, and make you pay before downloading, right on the web, and thus getting you on the downloading-your-OS-and-keeping-it-up-to-date bandwagon. That's what I dislike about debian and apt-get, or redhat update. Bunch of useless traffic to get the list of new packages, and the artificially created dependency hell, just so apt-get has a real function. I prefer downloading a zip for win32, or tar.gz source/rpm/deb by hand, then stuffin it away on my harddrive so I always have it available, even 10 years from now. If it needs a supporting library, such as vbrun300.dll, or something similar on unix, I'd like to be able to zip them together and stuff them away like that. There are actually some programs I downloaded a decade ago that I can still open up, install, and use happily. But this behavior that I'm doing must be eradicated somehow. The goal is to get you hooked on always coming back to a website, and paying, just like druggies, they give you the stuff for free first, but then you keep coming back for more.

No.... (4, Insightful)

Junior J. Junior III (192702) | more than 9 years ago | (#12904872)

It's because XP-N was the wrong "punishment" to inflict on MSFT.

People like getting free stuff bundled with things that they buy. At worst, don't use WMP and download something else.

When you force the removal of the free media player as a court decision, it's the consumers who feel punished. Now they have to go out of their way to get a media player.

What would have been a better punishment for Microsoft would have been forcing them to open up their APIs and documentation, publish their source code, or split the company up into competing units, or revoke their license to do business.

Re:No.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12905047)

Not only that. How is making MS to offera version of windows without media player a punishment?

It's like saying to a car thieft.. ."OK, As a punishment for your conviction as a thief, you will not be allowed to steal anymore!"

Re:No.... (1)

geekee (591277) | more than 9 years ago | (#12905137)

"What would have been a better punishment for Microsoft would have been forcing them to open up their APIs and documentation, publish their source code, or split the company up into competing units, or revoke their license to do business."

Fascist.

Who will change their minds? (3, Insightful)

tod_miller (792541) | more than 9 years ago | (#12904875)

No it just means people don't ask, and companies don't want to be seen as giving the 'reduced version'. People don't understand this, and as far as I am concerned, the whole problem with Microsoft and its abuse was cut down to some fairy arguments, and then those were made to stick.

It does a lot worse things.

Anyway, show me a linux distro aimed at home users whose default install doesn't have mp3/ogg/xmms etc.

Happy microsoft got slammed? Yes. Give a shit about the hole XP N thing? No.

Will it open people eyes? No, because form their perspective nothign has changed, unless you meant the distributors, who work on supply and demand, and will start taking space away from their m^2 floors as and when it will be profitable to do so.

Right now, they don't see it. Now the price of hardware is exacerbating the percentage of cost that goes to an OS, *that* might make a difference.

Tallyho.

MP3 isn't "free" (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12904968)

Anyway, show me a linux distro aimed at home users whose default install doesn't have mp3/ogg/xmms etc.
Fedora (and Debian) don't have MP3 included, because of the patents. Debian might not be home-user-friendly, but Fedora sure seems to try.

Anyway, show me a linux distro aimed at home users (1)

theurge14 (820596) | more than 9 years ago | (#12905094)

You have to go to 3rd party sources to get Fedora/Redhat to do anything with mp3.

I don't even have to mention Gentoo, do I?

Ubuntu (1)

headkase (533448) | more than 9 years ago | (#12905185)

I don't know offhand if Ubuntu has support for mp3 out of the box but, it's very friendly and at the very least it's easy to play audio cd's and rip them to ogg which is all you really need unless your downloading your songs off of p2p.

Red Herring (2, Insightful)

ndansmith (582590) | more than 9 years ago | (#12904879)

Could this open some eyes and increase interest in alternative (Linux, Mac) offerings?

I doubt that. The article says: "We'll continue to sell the old version because it's obviously better value for our customers," said Gina Jones, spokeswoman for PC World, Britain's leading PC retailer.. In other words, this is a battle between the new and old versions of XP. For the same price, which would you rather buy? The one that comes with the free media player or the one that does not have a media and forces to user to have an internet connection and download a player just to play CDs? I am guessing that most Europeans will look at the two products and choose conventional XP, without evening looking down the Mac aisle.

Just illustrates misguided courts (2, Insightful)

voicecrying (774890) | more than 9 years ago | (#12904883)

People aren't interested in a Windows without a media player - it was the competing businesses who were complaining.

Hey guys, I got a great idea. (2, Interesting)

Stick_Fig (740331) | more than 9 years ago | (#12904888)

So, Microsoft has a monopoly on a portion of the market. Let's force them, after they've already created this monopoly due to unfair business practices, to undo it through a third product nobody will buy.

Wastes your time in mind. Why would anyone buy a product with less in it when there's already an established product with more, when the more is really shitty? Tell me. I want to know.

The EU's decision, let's face it, was really fucking stupid and will do no good for anyone. Perhaps, instead, they should've done something more crippling, like take out Media Player in EVERY version and force people to download it. But no, that would hurt Microsoft more than not at all.

Re:Hey guys, I got a great idea. (2, Interesting)

zxnos (813588) | more than 9 years ago | (#12904944)

it is a waste. perhaps a better solution would be to have your pal and mine, clippy pop up during the first 5 launches of -replaceable program here - and say... ...'you know, there are other programs that do this, should i google "media players" now?'

Absolutely. (0, Flamebait)

DogDude (805747) | more than 9 years ago | (#12905051)

Absolutely. Cripple those fuckers. Hell, foget crippling their product... why not just steal their business from them entirely? Just take their assets, their profits, etc. Who the HELL do they think they are making a successful company, anyway? Bastards. The gov't should force EVERYBODY to learn the intricacies of.config files. The gov't should FORCE everybody to learn how to code in C.

You're an idiot.

Re:Absolutely. (1)

Stick_Fig (740331) | more than 9 years ago | (#12905125)

FYI, your sarcasm meter's broken, shithead.

Re:Absolutely. (1)

Nasarius (593729) | more than 9 years ago | (#12905231)

Who the HELL do they think they are making a successful company, anyway?

This is not about success; this is about abusing a monopoly to gain another monopoly.

You're either wholly ignorant of the case, or you're the idiot.

Fuck You & Fuck Linux (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12904896)

Cut the crap already. I am tired of this M$ is shit Linux is l33t shit. I am quitting Slashdot today. Dont bother replying coz I am not gonna see it.

Move on..Nothing here to see.

Don't let the door (1)

codepunk (167897) | more than 9 years ago | (#12905024)

Don't let the door hit your ass on the way out.

Ah well... (0, Flamebait)

Robotron23 (832528) | more than 9 years ago | (#12904897)

Do pet stores stock neutered animals?

Exactly.

Re:Ah well... (1)

joethegut (855200) | more than 9 years ago | (#12904929)

yes.

Re:Ah well... (0, Offtopic)

alc6379 (832389) | more than 9 years ago | (#12905042)

I got a cat from a pet store that was neutered... Cost just as much as a non-neutered cat...

Re:Ah well... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12905105)

I wish I could mod you -1 idiot

Marketing (0, Flamebait)

m50d (797211) | more than 9 years ago | (#12904898)

MS only produced it because they had to, and won't spend anything marketing it. Therefore the only way it could succeed would be on it's merits - but wait, it's windows, no way it could ever do that. So it's no surprise it fails.

Re:Marketing (1)

jumpingfred (244629) | more than 9 years ago | (#12904932)

The only way people would choose it over the full version of windows was if it was cheaper. Is it?

Surprise? (2, Insightful)

NFNNMIDATA (449069) | more than 9 years ago | (#12904906)

XP N is supposed to be a bust. MS doesn't want you to buy the version some government made them create. They want it to die a quiet death after it serves its purpose of compliance.

No. (1)

Infernal Device (865066) | more than 9 years ago | (#12904908)

It just points out how shortsighted the EU was in making this decision. Instead of trying to figure out what people wanted, they went with what they wanted.

Stupid question (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12904916)

No. Such a mindless submission was only accepted because it mentioned Linux AND Mac (in the same sentence, no less). Next article...

This really was a pointless act by the EU (5, Interesting)

cloudturtle (260857) | more than 9 years ago | (#12904931)

I'm not one to back M$, especially around here, but this whole Windows N thing just seems stupid. The EU doesn't like Media Player being coupled with the OS, so they make MS release a version of the OS sans MP, BUT then they still allow the old version to be sold AND they are the same price.

I don't know, maybe i have taken too many Econ classes, but this seems like it is a horribly inefficient punishment that will solve absolutely nothing -- hell it won't even give them those warm fuzzies you get from doing the right thing because it isn't the right thing.

The bottom line is that no rational consumer -- TFA mentioned like 2 people that this would not apply to -- would buy this version of windows. Sorry EU but you really missed the boat (or chunnel as it may be) on this one.

Slashdot is Dying (1)

AshuBhai (622862) | more than 9 years ago | (#12904957)

Could this open some eyes and increase interest in alternative (Linux, Mac) offerings?"

Why the fuck will someone shift to linux just because Windows does'nt happen to have a ..erm..media player. It must be slow news day. Its official Slashdot is dying. I confirm it. Nothing here to see. Move On.

How is this different from Fedora? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12904961)

I had to download Kaffeine, and navigate through all the dependencies, just to be able to play Divx or MP3. With Core 2, the yum.conf worked properly. With Core 3, they changed the entire repository system around, and I never could get yum to work properly. Even *after* going to the "unofficial" FAQ.

Suse 9.2 has full functionality, by default. Heck, it prompts me to download the Nvidia drivers, and even automatically loads the SMP kernel for me.

I'd buy XPn, if I was buying XP. I use Jetaudio, anyways, even though WMP usually has the proprietary MSFT API's coded in to make it use less processor time than Jetaudio.

Break Microsoft.. (1)

quark007 (765762) | more than 9 years ago | (#12904964)

Why the heck you think removing the media component from Windows XP would alter the consumer behavior or it be a fair punishment for a monopoly!
How about splitting Microsoft into smaller Microsofty's..may be based upon the services, one for operating system, one for office, one for its business offerings and so forth. Divide them and have them compete.
You just can not break a monopoly with more than 90% of market-share in any other way!

Re:Break Microsoft.. (2, Insightful)

bigNuns (18804) | more than 9 years ago | (#12905142)

why would they compete? they would all just be their own monopoly... ok maybe not the business division... a better plan would be to spilt them up and give them each their own copy of windows source and then let them compete!

Vote with your dollars (2, Interesting)

Thunderstruck (210399) | more than 9 years ago | (#12904965)

Perhaps we're looking at this the wrong way. The point of forcing an alternative offering is to prevent lock-in to certain software and media types. If I still used windows, I'd feel compelled to pick up a copy of N and use it purely to maintain my own personal dignity. At least then I could say I didn't PAY for WMP.

And let is encourage our windows using friends to do likewise.

Re:Vote with your dollars (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12905018)

Who said it costs any less...ding, guess what you are paying for WMP anyway LOL.

MSFT should have been forced to update their installer for all versions of windows to ask at install which media players to install (option to select as many as desired).

Re:Vote with your dollars (2, Insightful)

DaveCBio (659840) | more than 9 years ago | (#12905088)

Seriously, if your dignity is somehow attached to an OS, program or any other technology you really have some issues. Why do people treat things like this as a personal insult? It's business, pure and simple. If anyone thinks IBM or HP or any other company is embracing Linux for any warm and fuzzy reasons you are delusional. It's about the bottom line and making the right business choices.

Re:Vote with your dollars (1)

Thunderstruck (210399) | more than 9 years ago | (#12905188)

Issues indeed. If I go around telling my friends that WMP is a horrible program, a dangerous and sneaky system to get DRM into a computer, or just plain ugly, it would be intellectually dishonest for me to pay for a copy of it. It may be business for the vendors, but it's going to run on my Personal computer.

Whether other people are buying a copy of XP that includes WMP at the same price is no concern of mine.

emotional attachment to operation systems? (1)

handy_vandal (606174) | more than 9 years ago | (#12905243)

If anyone thinks IBM or HP or any other company is embracing Linux for any warm and fuzzy reasons you are delusional.

Quite right. Corporations that delude themselves about profit are dangerously susceptible to more hard-headed competitors.

If there's going to be any delusional thinking about embracing Linux for warm and fuzzy reasons, it's up to motivated volunteers to delude themselves.

-kgj

Next to go (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12904973)

I'm going to laugh when the EU decides MS can't bundle a web browser with Windows and users have to download one themselves :-P. As if stripping out IE is even possible...

It's all about the customers! (2, Insightful)

Quadko (602864) | more than 9 years ago | (#12904987)

It's too early to draw conclusions, but this would point to a conclusion 'customers gripe, but happy enough with Microsoft product' given the freedom to choose.

* So now above someone is already mentioning a totalitarian and roughly monopolistic response of "make the choice between XPs illegal, make only the N- version available! Then customers can't buy it!"

* Yeah, we see involving the government in software is *all* about increasing freedom. meh.

* More to the point, if retailers aren't buying into -N, their customers aren't expressing much need. :)

What, this whole lawsuit business must have been about competitors's business, not about what the customer wanted! (Shock! Amazement!)

This is good for MS, not bad for them. (1)

i41Overlord (829913) | more than 9 years ago | (#12904991)

I don't know why people think this is hurting MS.

I seem to remember that MS was forced to offer a version without all the bundled goodies, and MS said that nobody would want it because customers want the free stuff.

The EU forces them to do it anyway, Microsoft complies, and then they're proven right because nobody wants to buy the stripped down version for the same price.

It's pointless, really. Just a technicality.

Why buy MSFT at all? (0, Flamebait)

WillAffleckUW (858324) | more than 9 years ago | (#12904992)

I mean, if you want WinXP without the MSFT cruft, face it, you want Linux instead.

Why not just spend your dollars on a Linux distro and Open Office and save the dollars to buy more RAM?

Re:Why buy MSFT at all? (1)

DaveCBio (659840) | more than 9 years ago | (#12905050)

Because you aren't the average consumer. They average person just wants to run all the programs their friends do with the least amount of effort. Linux does not fill teh bill for them.

Re:Why buy MSFT at all? (1)

WillAffleckUW (858324) | more than 9 years ago | (#12905187)

Because you aren't the average consumer. They average person just wants to run all the programs their friends do with the least amount of effort. Linux does not fill teh bill for them.

You mean like spel czech?

Re:Why buy MSFT at all? (1)

repruhsent (672799) | more than 9 years ago | (#12905091)

You are obviously karma whoring. From your post:

I mean, if you want WinXP without the MSFT cruft, face it, you want Linux instead.

WTF douchebag? According to you zealots, ALL Microsoft software (note how I spell out the company's name, asshole; you fuckers look retarded when you use MSFT) is cruft. So, this is basically a contradiction. Also, if you want WinXP, why in the hell would you go for Linux instead? The two systems have incredibly different architectures, so it's not like Linux is a perfect drop-in for WinXP.

Five years too late (1)

pestilence669 (823950) | more than 9 years ago | (#12905040)

Like every Microsoft anti-trust solution, it gets "solved" years after the competitors market has eroded.

Remember Lotus? Caldera? AT&T? Be?

Be filed their anti-trust case, and was forced to sell their assets for pennies on the dollar to Palm. Palm received the settlement, but Be as a company was dead.

Be's claim was valid. Even when they offered to give it away for free to PC manufacturers, no one bit. Microsoft threatened to refuse sale of their O/S to any manufacturer that sold a competitor.

Re:Five years too late (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12905168)

Be's claim was valid. Even when they offered to give it away for free to PC manufacturers, no one bit. Microsoft threatened to refuse sale of their O/S to any manufacturer that sold a competitor.

So what's wrong with that? People want Microsoft Windows, not some obscure operating system that doesn't run any of their software. Like it or not, Windows is a miniscule part of the price of a new computer and XP Pro is a great operating system.

Re:Five years too late (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12905250)

Is Be really dead? Or is that just what they want us to believe?

It could be that they are really quite alive, developing software somewhere in an abandoned aluminum processing plant off the coast of Nova Scotia, and are planning their triumphant return to the limelight.

No reason to pick (1)

oo7tushar (311912) | more than 9 years ago | (#12905055)

People like Windows Media player because it's convinient. For the average user they want to be able to play music right out of the box without having to go around installing other software. People simply don't have the patience to search for and then install software especially with all the spyware around these days (that's not to say they won't do it...but they'd prefer not to).
It's standard procedure to download Real Media and websites help people through the process and let them know exactly what they want. Software packages come with QT and Real Player which adds to the convinience.
It's more of a pain not to be able to play media right out of the box.
Would these users benefit from a switch to Linux? Probably not for most of them as they'd find themselves in an unfamiliar environment which is likely to turn them away from future Linux exploration.

"compels" (1)

Pac (9516) | more than 9 years ago | (#12905068)

"To complete your installation you MUST now choose a media player from the list bellow. ...
Important release note: due to Windows Media Player being an integral part of the OS, choosing other media player may make your computer instable or unusable."

Make XP N mandatory: problem solved (1)

flowerp (512865) | more than 9 years ago | (#12905085)


Don't give distributors and consumers a choice. This is about unbundling Windows Media technology from Windows. If this is to be effective, it has to be mandatory.

Customers can still download all the media player software they want either from Microsoft, Real or QuickTime or whatever other sites.

Christian

Re:Make XP N mandatory: problem solved (1)

geekee (591277) | more than 9 years ago | (#12905248)

"Don't give distributors and consumers a choice. This is about unbundling Windows Media technology from Windows. If this is to be effective, it has to be mandatory.

Customers can still download all the media player software they want either from Microsoft, Real or QuickTime or whatever other sites.

Christian"

While we're at it, lets make Linux illegal. Clearly giving away software to get people hooked is an antitrust violation. It amazing how people who claim to believe in freedom turn into fascists the minute they get a little power against someone they don't like.

Nice spin slashdot (1)

AtlanticCarbon (760109) | more than 9 years ago | (#12905136)

This only shows the market wants full windows, not windows alternatives. This exemplifies the dangers of market intervention. A lot of time, it just ends up having wacky effects. There was a time to intervene with MS and MS has engaged in anti-competitive behavior, but this wasn't the time or issue to take them on.

Non-Sequitur Conclusion (1)

MSTCrow5429 (642744) | more than 9 years ago | (#12905162)

Could this open some eyes and increase interest in alternative (Linux, Mac) offerings?

How in the world can you come to this conclusion? If the OEMs won't bother shipping an OS that asks the consumer to select a media player and download it for the net, how in the world are you going to get the OEMs to push select your own OS, never mind media player? Someone is high again.

Quote from article sums it up nicely (1)

geekee (591277) | more than 9 years ago | (#12905229)

From the article:
"It's a militant act for a customer to buy the new version," he said.

Dumb Solution (2, Insightful)

MichaelKaiserProScri (691448) | more than 9 years ago | (#12905236)

The "N" thing is a dumb solution. MS should have allowed to BUNDLE anything they wanted. However there should be clear and clean options to include or exclude any of the bundled packages and a clear and clean way to REMOVE any packages an OEM chooses to install. Ever install Debian using the Sarge Installer? Ever use Aptitude on Debian? You can install as much or as little as you like and you can uninstall anything you like. Why can't Windows do that? The only bundled piece I have a REAL problem with is MSN Messenger. You can't friggin uninstall it! I actually wrote a "do nothing" application called msmsgs.exe and copied it over the real one to get rid of it!
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