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1010 comments

well... (5, Insightful)

darthpenguin (206566) | more than 8 years ago | (#12924086)

The article is somewhat light on facts. From what I recall, during drowning or suffocation, brain damage occurs in humans quite soon (10 minutes?). How is it that this process negates the lack of oxygen to the brain, allowing no damage to occur? Is it the temperature of the liquid used for replacing the blood?

Also, the article has "Although the animals are clinically dead, their tissues and organs are perfectly preserved." followed immediately by "Damaged blood vessels and tissues can then be repaired via surgery." So, which is it?

I suppose we'll have to wait for a real scientific journal to publish this before we find out much more.

Also, another attempt at hibernation, this time in mice [washingtonpost.com], using a different method involving hydrogen sulfide gas.

Re:well... (4, Informative)

ruggerboy (553525) | more than 8 years ago | (#12924131)

"Damaged blood vessels and tissues can then be repaired via surgery." I think this means gunshot wounds etc.

Re:well... (5, Interesting)

Rei (128717) | more than 8 years ago | (#12924285)

Yep. And the reason that they don't get brain damaged is because their neurons aren't dying. And their neurons aren't dying because they're not metabolizing, and thus needing oxygen. The brain is in hibernation, just like the rest of the body.

Still, this is ubercreepy. Even the electrical shock at the end bit... sounds like 50s sci-fi. What's next? "The shock required is quite intense, so facilities doing this work will need to affix a lightning rod to their roof and wait for a storm..."?

Re:well... (5, Informative)

Binestar (28861) | more than 8 years ago | (#12924146)

Also, the article has "Although the animals are clinically dead, their tissues and organs are perfectly preserved." followed immediately by "Damaged blood vessels and tissues can then be repaired via surgery." So, which is it?

They were refering to the use of this in medical emergencies. Put someone into this state, work on the damaged tissue with no bleeding or time crunch, then revive when they are fixed.

I'm more interested in knowing who the hell is going to volunteer for this procedure...

Re:well... (1)

techstar25 (556988) | more than 8 years ago | (#12924192)

I'm more interested in knowing who the hell is going to volunteer for this procedure...
Someone very very old. Maybe someone dying...just a guess.

Re:well... (5, Insightful)

daniil (775990) | more than 8 years ago | (#12924199)

I'm more interested in knowing who the hell is going to volunteer for this procedure...

A mortally wounded gunshot victim?

Re:well... (1)

Hoi Polloi (522990) | more than 8 years ago | (#12924245)

I'm not sure you can use highly experimental procedures on even the mortally wounded without some kind of 3rd party consent.

Re:well... (1)

Binestar (28861) | more than 8 years ago | (#12924314)

A mortally wounded gunshot victim?

Sure, as long as that person gets shot, and they accidentally bring him to this research facility instead of a hospital...

I'm certainly not familiar with the way they test these things, but wouldn't they need to do thier tests initially on people who understand what they are going to undertake and sign off on it? I'm pretty sure this would more likely be used initially to assist with organ transplants on terminally ill patients as opposed to on an ER patient who was just shot.

Re:well... (5, Interesting)

Carnildo (712617) | more than 8 years ago | (#12924218)

Well, one obvious use is for open-heart surgery -- that goes a whole lot easier if you can stop the heart, and heart-lung machines aren't perfect. I think the first human trials will be volunteers who are additionally undergoing major surgery.

Re:well... (1)

m85476585 (884822) | more than 8 years ago | (#12924160)

Also, the article has "Although the animals are clinically dead, their tissues and organs are perfectly preserved." followed immediately by "Damaged blood vessels and tissues can then be repaired via surgery." So, which is it?

IF their blood vessles or tissues are damaged, they can be repaired

Re:well... (1)

jdray (645332) | more than 8 years ago | (#12924182)

They're going to get some guy named Riddik as the test subject for the human trial...

The surgery is for the pre-hibernation damage (1)

bensyverson (732781) | more than 8 years ago | (#12924187)

Also, the article has "Although the animals are clinically dead, their tissues and organs are perfectly preserved." followed immediately by "Damaged blood vessels and tissues can then be repaired via surgery." So, which is it?

I think what they mean is that once the subject is revived, they can repair whatever damaged parts caused them to hibernate the subject in the first place. That was my read on it, given the emphasis on battlefield injuries and casualties. However, the text is not very clear, and probably written in haste.

-ben

Re:well... (2, Insightful)

Chris Burke (6130) | more than 8 years ago | (#12924226)

I think the line about damaged blood vessels and tissues is in regards to the reason why you wanted to freeze the dog/person in the first place -- some fatal injury. They are talking about the medical uses for this technique, and using it to save people who have lost a lot of blood, so that's where I got this impression. The technique itself isn't supposed to damage tissues, but if you resuscitate the person/animal while they still have the big gaping chest wound that would kinda defeat the purpose, so you have to fix that first.

But yeah, definitely need a better story.

Re:well... (1)

ReverendLoki (663861) | more than 8 years ago | (#12924229)

Still light on facts, but I do recall anecdotal stories about people who have drowned in freezing temperatures being revived successfully long after the "normal" length of time, with little to no brain damage, having been preserved by the extremely cold temperature to which they've fallen.

Though the temperature may perfectly preserve the body, I would think that the whole process of having all of your blood pumped out and replaced by another fluid, and then that replaced by blood again, would damage the blood vessels themselves.

Yeah, it be nice to see a scientific journal's report on this.

Re:well... (4, Interesting)

Sosarian (39969) | more than 8 years ago | (#12924235)

Also, the article has "Although the animals are clinically dead, their tissues and organs are perfectly preserved." followed immediately by "Damaged blood vessels and tissues can then be repaired via surgery." So, which is it?
Um both? If your blood vessels are damaged by a gunshot wound as stated in the article and you have massive bloodloss this would keep you "alive" by keeping you dead for a time while they patched you up.

Personally I think the fluids would just drain out of whatever wounds you do have.

I think a better application of this technology will be for these multi-hour operations where they want to repair heart defects or do transplants, in which they currently induce hypothermic states.

Re:well... (1)

percepto (652270) | more than 8 years ago | (#12924236)

First of all, there's no way in hell that they'll be testing this technique on humans within a year. We don't even know if the zombie dogs are going to survive another year! TFA claims that there's no damage to the dogs, but we can't know how their total lifespan is effected yet.

Second, if someday this technology is actually usable, I would prefer to see it used for space travel than for reviving egomaniac celebrities. Another good use might be freezing people who need kidney transplants and then defrosting them when the organs become available.

Re:well... (0, Flamebait)

StupidHelpDeskGuy (636955) | more than 8 years ago | (#12924252)

US scientists have succeeded in reviving the dogs after three hours of clinical death, paving the way for trials on humans within years.

I wonder what institution would be able to get these experiments approved? Stem cells are considered bad, but re-animating dogs and people is ok?

Questionable science, questionable source. All in all, a very slashdot like submission. Now if we could just get them to re-animate Timothy.

Re:well... (1)

pin_gween (870994) | more than 8 years ago | (#12924263)

There are many cases of people being submerged in ice water for extended periods of time without brain damage... probably induced by the rapid temperature drop and the lower cellular respiration.

you're right re: the lightweight facts though. How does cellular degeneration not occur? Do they continually pump the solution through the body? You would think they would have to.

In regards to the damaged blood vessels, I think they mean IF there were damaged vessels, like those suffered by soldiers in combat, peopel in accidents, etc.

Will be interesting to see as more reseach is done.

Re:well... (4, Informative)

cmpalmer (234347) | more than 8 years ago | (#12924272)

There was a good summary of this technique as well as the hydrogen sulfide method in an article in Discover last month. This appears to be a very hot (no pun intended) topic in experimental medicine.

Re:well... (1)

Have Blue (616) | more than 8 years ago | (#12924274)

How is it that this process negates the lack of oxygen to the brain, allowing no damage to occur? Is it the temperature of the liquid used for replacing the blood?

I would guess that brain damage results from the body attempting to keep its metabolism running while lacking a key ingredient. If the freezing process is rapid enough, all brain activity would ceases within moments, leaving the brain completely inactive. An analogy would be that if you removed all the oil from a running car engine it would destroy itself in seconds, but if you turn off the ignition before draining and don't try to start it until oil is back up to a safe level then there would be no damage.

Brrraaaaiiiinnnnssss!!! (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#12924093)


The technology will be tested on humans within the next year.

.. and after the testing they will become slashdot editors.
[segue: See the new George A. Romero movie LAND OF THE DEAD [imdb.com]! It rocks, baby!]

It bothers me... (drudge) (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#12924100)

on some level it really bothers me that slashdot carries some of the same stories as the drudge report. On another level it bothers me that the drudge report has these stories FIRST.

(sigh)

Re:It bothers me... (drudge) (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#12924186)

http://science.slashdot.org/submit.pl [slashdot.org]

Submit your own fucking stories, or quit biatching.

--
Slashdot has recently added a 20 minute posting block between comments labled "anonymous". So much for trying to have a conversation without logging in.

Ralston-Purina has responded (5, Funny)

rebug (520669) | more than 8 years ago | (#12924107)

New Gravy Brains(TM) brand dog food has the brain flavor your zombie dog craves.

Not On Me. (0)

ntsucks (22132) | more than 8 years ago | (#12924111)

This seems too far fetched to be real. I would not want to be the first human trial.

Re:Not On Me. (4, Insightful)

Suicyco (88284) | more than 8 years ago | (#12924154)

You would rather die?

Re:Not On Me. (1)

metlin (258108) | more than 8 years ago | (#12924217)

Ironically, the quote at the bottom of the page says -

God doesn't play dice. -- Albert Einstein

Hmm, perhaps not, after all.

Re:Not On Me. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#12924284)

Not really ironic since Einstein was an atheist, and that quote refers to his view that nature(god) was not random.
"From the viewpoint of a Jesuit priest I am, of course, and have always been an atheist.... I have repeatedly said that in my opinion the idea of a personal God is a childlike one." Einstein

Re:Not On Me. (1)

JHromadka (88188) | more than 8 years ago | (#12924232)

This seems too far fetched to be real. I would not want to be the first human trial.

Right, because the consequence would be, um, that you stay dead.

And after that... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#12924113)

When will they roll this tech out for plants? I want my zombie peanut butter!

Who are they going to test it on? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#12924121)

Who would sign up for the first test? It seems like a neat idea, but I wouldn't want to go first.

zombies (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#12924122)

I for one welcome our new zombie dog overlords.

Oh no! (4, Insightful)

zalas (682627) | more than 8 years ago | (#12924124)

Oh man... I can see the flood of Resident Evil jokes now...

brains... Brains... BRAINS!! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#12924126)

George Romero would be proud.

Re:brains... Brains... BRAINS!! (1)

lupinstel (792700) | more than 8 years ago | (#12924313)

Romero zombies, and all the previous movie zombies never wanted brains. The "Brains" zombies come from Return of the Living Dead which is a parody of Romero and 1970's/1980's zombie movies. One must have their facts straight to be prepared for the inevitable invasion of the zombie horde.

NOT zombies (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#12924130)

The article is obviously biased against this research, they are not zombie dogs, they were simply revived after being suspended for a while. 'revived without brain damage' and 'zombie' are quite different.

huh? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#12924134)

What's "zombie" about it?

I'm scared though.

Big Deal (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#12924136)

I've heard stories of Keith Richards doing this sort of thing since the '70s.

Casualties (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#12924137)

We have _NO_ casualties in Iraq ...

but are they really zombie dogs? (1)

talenos (865756) | more than 8 years ago | (#12924141)

But do they want to eat your brains!? That is the real test of a zombie dog. Also if the only way to kill them is by a shot to the head.

No brain damage (1)

pestilence669 (823950) | more than 8 years ago | (#12924148)

Hmm. How can they really tell? They're dogs, after all. Don't doctors tell us such indisputable facts like how MDMA (Ecstasy) creates holes in your brain?

I can't tell if this is a good thing or not. Why would you want to freeze someone indefinately? Demolition Man wasn't THAT great of a movie.

Magazine Article.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#12924158)

This was in this month's New Scientist, I believe.

backwards (1)

cliffyqs (773401) | more than 8 years ago | (#12924164)

Wow! they actually did it before there was a massive public outcry about whether it was ethical or humane or whatever. One step for someone...

Are you kidding? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#12924294)

You seem surprised. Have you ever read medical studies? Or research into vision, muscles, nerves, hearing, etc.?

Animals are subjected to some really horrible experiments and then killed to see what happened to their bodies.

This isn't unusual -- it's pretty common.

There's no requirement for companies to report this type of activity. The "vet" treating the animals works for the company, so they do what they can, but they can't really be working in the best interests of the animal (which is what their code of ethics requires).

Animal rights activists stage protests, write letters, even commit acts of arsen. But they can't possibly cover every case. If they were effective this wouldn't be the normal mode of research.

Cool, zombie dogs! (1)

DMNT (754837) | more than 8 years ago | (#12924165)

Now we have dogs running wild howling "Brains, Braaaaaaains" to the moon. Haven't the scientists' done their homework and watched B class movies when they were in college? Zombies always turn up against their masters.

Anyway, now I have to abstain from sex before they've destroyed all the zombies. Thanks a lot, guys!

Some zombie survival tips [geocities.com]

dogs (0, Offtopic)

rhs98 (513802) | more than 8 years ago | (#12924167)

WOOF WOOF WOOF WOOF WOOF WOOOOOF WOOF

Babel fish;
ALL YOUR BASES ARE BELONG TO US

quick get the slashdot name (2, Funny)

truckaxle (883149) | more than 8 years ago | (#12924168)

may I be the first to welcome our zombie dog overloads seriously I need to get the slash name zombiedog

gitmo-job or outsourcing (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#12924174)

blood was drained and replaced by a cold, saline liquid. A couple of hours, their blood was replaced, and an electric shock brought them back to life with no brain damage. The technology will be tested on humans within the next year.

will it be a gitmo-job or are the nasty bits involved in the human testing to be exported to countries like egypt?

Dear Mister Romero... (3, Funny)

GPLDAN (732269) | more than 8 years ago | (#12924176)

From the Desk of Paramount Studios:

George, baby, love that flick in the theaters now. Yeah, brilliant baby, that whole cpaitalist pig dog thing, and the gore, man you are the best...

George, baby, I was wondering if we could take lunch next week with you and Stephen. Yeah, we got this new story based on real life, we think it's right up your alley...

How much? (0, Troll)

doc_pez (878235) | more than 8 years ago | (#12924193)

How many people working at the DMV do they have to liquify to make an ounce of this stuff?

Been done... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#12924196)

They were basically copying 2 of the greatest movies EVER; Pet Cemetary. Oh and don't forget Pet Cemetary 2. They are both right up there with Total Recall.

Resident Evil? (1)

j_cavera (758777) | more than 8 years ago | (#12924198)

Any noticable change in the dog's personalities? Or perhaps appetites? Any develop a taste for BRAAAINS? Dammit these are things you don't just mess without some precautions!

I Volunteer (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#12924202)

I Volunteer, Bring me back when being 26, working at helpdesk and living with your parents dosent make me a looser.

Attn: Postal Workers... (5, Funny)

sl8763 (777589) | more than 8 years ago | (#12924209)

The Good: Zombie dogs are much slower than the normal kind.

The Bad: Normal dogs will not attempt to eat your juicy, delicious brain.

Jesus Christ (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#12924211)

I really didn't need that bloody Cujo-esque picture to go with that article, especially when it's late at night and I'm five minutes off of going to bed.

I can't wait (5, Funny)

nizo (81281) | more than 8 years ago | (#12924212)

The picture that comes with the article sure makes this whole process look really appealing. It reminds me of the picture that the local news station shows when there is any asteroid in the news (a huge moon-sized rock hitting the earth). Aren't stock pictures great?

Darwin sighs in disgust (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#12924222)

This is a great idea in concept, terrible idea in practice. While I laud the thought of using this on soldiers, it will most likely actually be used on those that have no business being alive ... e.g. people that are attempting to earn Darwin awards. We already have an overpopulation problem; how bad will it get when even the dead don't stay dead?

This Explains It (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#12924255)

This explains why Dick Cheney is still "alive." I mean, all the guy can do is snarl... you just know he has to be a zombie.

misleading title (1)

Escherial (806342) | more than 8 years ago | (#12924260)

From what I can glean from the article, this isn't really a breakthrough in reviving dead creatures more than it is another attempt at hibernation. It seems a little misleading to title the post "U.S. Scientists Create Zombie Dogs" when the treatment requires that they perform a process on the dogs (clinically killing them, I suppose), then restore them to a state that's equivalent (not sure, the article was vague about this) to before they were suspended. Regardless, this doesn't seem very useful, especially considering the exotic application they suggested in the article. Seriously, are you really going to be able to perform a full blood transfusion on an already wounded person in the middle of a battlefield?

Crazy (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#12924270)

The possible uses of this procedure to save people are pretty nifty. The saline solution apparently is for the interim while repairs to organs or whatever are done. Once they are ready to revive they put the blood back in and shock it back to life.

No brain damage, but (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#12924276)

they now thirst for human brains! Actually, this is old news. This was reported at UC Berkeley several years ago.

Writeup wrong... (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#12924282)

The article says: "paving the way for trials on humans within years."

It doesn't say anything about human trials within the next year.

_Please_ move along, nothing to see here (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#12924283)

"News for Nerds. Stuff that matters."

Zombie dogz from H*E*L*L part 3.

Geez.

It's a dog (2, Funny)

Exstatica (769958) | more than 8 years ago | (#12924291)

How do we know if the dog didn't suffer brain damage? Did this new super dog talk and say wow i got away with no brain damamamaamamamamage.

Not new news (2, Interesting)

pthisis (27352) | more than 8 years ago | (#12924293)

The Safar Center was doing these experiments successfully in 1996.

I have no idea if they've recently done yet another incrementally longer period of exsanguination, as the article doesn't mention the time or a journal article name or anything.

not really that much of an advancment (2, Interesting)

TRRosen (720617) | more than 8 years ago | (#12924296)

It seems to me this is just an artificial way of creating a cold water drowning. People are often revived after long periods without oxygen in near freezing water. Leading to the rescue mantra "your not dead until your warm and dead".

I think the Russians did this long ago (1)

deanoaz (843940) | more than 8 years ago | (#12924303)

I saw an old black and white film from decades ago (probably on archive.org) that showed some russian scientists doing the same thing.

"Science is what we understand well enough to explain to a computer. Art is everything else we do."
- Donald Knuth

Sweet Zombie Jesus! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#12924304)

Does Professor Farnsworth work for this outfit?

huh? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#12924308)

I must have slept the last 10 months. It' April again, hm?

Has to do with the oxygen level (5, Informative)

DanielMarkham (765899) | more than 8 years ago | (#12924310)

This is a follow-on to an article in Scientific American this month. Interestingly enough, the article concluded that cells stay viable just fine in very high or very low oxygen environments. It's the transition stage that causes all the damage.
Hence the reason for injecting saline -- it takes the oxygen-carrying blood out of the tisses almost immediately, which is what you want to do. The SA article authors said this seems a little extreme to use in humans, and I agree. They've had some success with mice using Hydrogen Sulfide, I think, mixed in with air. Also, surgery for animals that are "dead" brings in a whole new line of specialties that we haven't developed yet. This is going to be a fascinating area to watch, imo.

Blimey (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#12924316)

Noticing the link, this story is coming out of Australia... Isn't the title supposed to read "Dingo Dogs" instead?

Fake, but hilarious! (0, Troll)

MikeSty (890569) | more than 8 years ago | (#12924317)

Hahahahaha! Great article!

Take a look at some of the other articles in "The Other Side" section...
http://www.news.com.au/otherside/?from=ninews_left nav [news.com.au]

Robot lobsters? Haha! The only one that I believe is in full truth is the one about the cabbage leaves in baseball hats. I was watching a ballgame the other day and they were talking about this

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,10117,15696312-1376 2,00.html [news.com.au]

Watch out for your keyboards ... (1)

tomhudson (43916) | more than 8 years ago | (#12924320)

blood was drained and replaced by a cold, saline liquid.
Adds a whole new take to "you can have my keyboard when you pry it from my cold dead hands".

Could this be a way to LEGALLY scam an insurance company?

  1. Submit to procedure ...
  2. Have next of kin collect insurance money, since you're dead ...
  3. Get revived (hopefully before aforementioned next of kin spend all the money)
Or just put $100 in the bank and wait a couple thousand years while compound interest does its magic.
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