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Java to Appear in Next-Gen DVD players

timothy posted more than 9 years ago | from the good-thing-it's-perfect dept.

Java 330

Ivan P. writes "Sun Microsystems's Java technology will be built into Blu-ray DVD players, executives said on Monday during Sun's JavaOne trade show, a development that advances the technology in the consumer electronics market for which Sun originally developed the software. 'Java will be used for control menus, interactive features, network services and games,' said Yasushi Nishimura, director of Panasonic's Research and Development Company of America. 'This means that all Blu-ray Disc player devices will be shipped equipped with Java.'" Next stop, annoying Flash intros.

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Microsoft vs. Sun (5, Informative)

DosBubba (766897) | more than 9 years ago | (#12937372)

Re:Microsoft vs. Sun (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12937719)

... and this obviously explains why they are committing to HD-DVD rather than Blu-Ray.

You know, I swear they don't get it! Instead of promoting a "standard", which will promote use for everyone, they only worry about lock-in, which promotes only Microsoft and ignores everyone else's interests.

It was successful before, but their time is coming to an end.

thank god (5, Interesting)

MatD (895409) | more than 9 years ago | (#12937387)

That means it will take about a week for someone to write a crack to bypass all those annoying trailers we have to watch before we can actually watch the dvd we payed for.

Re:thank god (2, Insightful)

nomadic (141991) | more than 9 years ago | (#12937409)

Though how are you going to get the crack onto the machine? Unless they allow firmware changes via CD?

Re:thank god (1)

N3Roaster (888781) | more than 9 years ago | (#12937432)

Though how are you going to get the crack onto the machine? Unless they allow firmware changes via CD?
From the summary:

"network services"

(queue ominous music)

Re:thank god (2, Insightful)

pete-classic (75983) | more than 9 years ago | (#12937496)

We don't have to watch 'em. "mplayer dvd://" usually gets us right to the feature!

-Peter

That'll learn 'em! (1)

Scrameustache (459504) | more than 9 years ago | (#12937628)

That means it will take about a week for someone to write a crack to bypass all those annoying trailers we have to watch before we can actually watch the dvd we payed for.

I suggest breaking copyright law and aquiring a better copy.

Or a bloody coup... ya know... whichever.

Re:thank god (4, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12937661)

I like those trailers, they give me time to find the hand creme between the cushions and get my towel.

Great! (Not) (2, Insightful)

jamesbromberger (79337) | more than 9 years ago | (#12937388)

Now my DVD player is going to be slow to respond to UI, just like my mobile phone is now. Next they'll be putting Windows Mobile on these things too, and it will take 45+ seconds to 'boot' the damn thing, like with the Orange C500 phones....

Re:Great! (Not) (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12937442)

Now my DVD player is going to be slow to respond to UI, just like my mobile phone is now.

Let me guess, Samsung?

Re:Great! (Not) (1)

mikolas (223480) | more than 9 years ago | (#12937458)

Even better, they could put in Symbian and the bootup time would be 2 minutes like with Nokia's 9500 Communicator.

Re:Great! (Not) (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12937531)

Yeah,

Well, my TIVO has the Linux O/S and it's as slow as christmas.

It ain't got anything to do with the UI you idiot, it's the speed of the CPU in the thing.

Re:Great! (Not) (3, Informative)

Osty (16825) | more than 9 years ago | (#12937600)

Well, my TIVO has the Linux O/S and it's as slow as christmas. It ain't got anything to do with the UI you idiot, it's the speed of the CPU in the thing.

In Tivo's case, it actually is Java. The interface used to be very quick and snappy. Then they decided to push the Home Media Option out to all users, and the same quick, responsive UI has now slowed down to a horrible crawl. The hardware didn't change at all, only the software.

As for the poster making the crack about putting Windows Mobile on a box, Microsoft already has a program with Comcast and Motorola where the HD DVR box Comcast offers uses Microsoft technology. I have no idea if it's WinCE-based or Windows XP Embedded-based, but it's very quick and responsive compared to my now-sluggish Tivo. It doesn't have all of the searching and filtering features of Tivo (I wish it at least had thumbs-up/down), but it has a more responsive UI and records HD streams so I use it much more than my Tivo (relegated to my bedroom TV and a basic cable feed).

Re:Great! (Not) (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12937681)

Comcast is migrating all that stuff to Java (don't know what the underlying OS is). It's apparently some FCC regulation. I've seen some of it, didn't get have the opportunity to touch anything, but it was responding quickly as the guy was using the remote.

Re:Great! (Not) (4, Informative)

pivo (11957) | more than 9 years ago | (#12937765)

In Tivo's case, it actually is Java. The interface used to be very quick and snappy. Then they decided to push the Home Media Option out to all users

The problem with your reasoning is that the quick and snappy UI was also in Java.

Re:Great! (Not) (-1, Flamebait)

suitepotato (863945) | more than 9 years ago | (#12937677)

No, it's definitely the way the UI is written. Badly written VB6 is faster than tightly coded Java on the same Windows box every time. C++ kicks Java's ass on Linux on the same box every time.

Write once, run anywhere is a nice idea and truly needed, but there's a long long way to go to get to it and the tradeoffs made in getting Java out the door from concept to (barely) useable pretty much rule the current incarnation out.

I'm going to see what I can do with the new beta of REALbasic 2005 on Linux and how well it ports then over to Windows.

Re:Great! (Not) (5, Insightful)

spinozaq (409589) | more than 9 years ago | (#12937586)

This is 'Insightful'?! This is a troll to start Java is slow because applets are stupid war. Java is a platform. Code it how you will. It's obviously a damn good platform considering its extremely wide spread use despite strong arm tactics by its competitors.

Re:Great! (Not) (0)

hunterx11 (778171) | more than 9 years ago | (#12937726)

While the benefits of an interpreted language might outweight the speed penalty on any half-modern PC, it is potentially a different story on an embedded platform.

Re:Great! (Not) (1)

msuzio (3104) | more than 9 years ago | (#12937872)

Um, you do know that Java was originally created to be an embedded consumer electronics language, right?

Re:Great! (Not) (5, Informative)

JebusIsLord (566856) | more than 9 years ago | (#12937873)

a) Java was DESIGNED for embedded systems, first and foremost. That's why it is hardware-agnostic; because it allows the hardware makers to throw in whatever chips are cheap in bulk at the time, change on a whim, and still push out the same upgrade to everyone. Being cross-platform in the MacOS/Linux/Windows way was just sort of a side-effect. Think about how much this will benefit set-top manufacturers!!

b) Java isn't interpreted anymore... its just-in-time compiled and then executed as native code. A bit of a start-up pause while the classes compile, that's all.

Re:Great! (Not) (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12937784)

Yeah! And the same goes for Windows, too! If it wasn't awesome, it wouldn't be so widespread.

The future is now. (2, Interesting)

JonLatane (750195) | more than 9 years ago | (#12937395)

Next stop, annoying Flash intros.

I believe they're already essentially here, in the form of previews - some of which are unskippable - before you can even get to the menu. (Not Flash, but obviously still something very, very wrong.)

Look on the bright side... (4, Insightful)

Will_Malverson (105796) | more than 9 years ago | (#12937399)

Next stop, annoying Flash intros.

Well, at least they'll take up less space than the current annoying MPEG2 intros...

Re:Look on the bright side... (1)

KillShill (877105) | more than 9 years ago | (#12937523)

and hence you can have a lot more space for more flash ads.

games on dvd player (2, Funny)

clockwise_music (594832) | more than 9 years ago | (#12937402)

Does this mean I can run NetHack on my new DVD player?

Re:games on dvd player (2, Funny)

rockola (240707) | more than 9 years ago | (#12937471)

Does this mean I can run NetHack on my new DVD player?
Sure it does, immediately after you've rewritten all of NetHack in Java. Best of luck.

Re:games on dvd player (1)

NetNifty (796376) | more than 9 years ago | (#12937560)

Don't need to rewrite it in java, just use a java telnet or ssh client and connect to a box with Nethack on.

Re:games on dvd player (1)

clockwise_music (594832) | more than 9 years ago | (#12937569)

How hard can it be? Let me at it!

Misconceptions, as usual (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12937405)

Next stop, annoying Flash intros. Sigh... how this relates to java is beyond me... java is actually a very powerful language that drives alot of enterprise solutions and embedded systems. People always confuse java with java applets, or for some reason think java is crap. I used to too, before I got to know the language better. Oh, do I like Ruby or python better? Sure. But that doesnt remove the fact that java is here to stay and has proven itself more than enough in the enterprise. So why slashdot's hostility towards it remains is beyond me. I've seen large scale systems attempted to be developed in perl and believe me... that doesnt work well at all! :)

Java IS sux (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12937460)

It doesn't matter how good a language it is, if all it is capable of delivering are pig ugly end-user applications.

Note: the majority of people couldn't give a hang about back-end, so called 'enterprise' solutions with Java)

Azureus,
LimeWire,
Neo Office

are all butt-ugly with sluggish, slow and buggy interfaces. The promise of Java on the desktop is long since over. People realized that it just didn't deliver. No surprise then they are desperately trying to find other uses for it like embedding it into DVD Players.

Re:Java IS sux (3, Informative)

Decaff (42676) | more than 9 years ago | (#12937627)

Note: the majority of people couldn't give a hang about back-end, so called 'enterprise' solutions with Java)

Yes, because, like, no-one uses E-Bay, banks, stock-markets, airline on-line booking systems.

I'm sure the majority of people couldn't give a hang about these.

Re:Java IS sux (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12937777)

Stop being difficult for the sake of it. Other than people who work in that industry no end-user cares a damn about what goes into running enterprise (god I HATE that word) solutions. Stop trying to pretend otherwise. You act like every little pleb out there owes a big thank you to people who write this crap in Java, ASP, .NET whatever for those wonderful big companies that keep our beloved economy moving.

And personally, for me as the end-user, I won't even use a site/service if it needs Java, it's just too much a security risk. I have permanently disabled Java in all browsers I have used for the last 6 years or more and will continue to do so.

Am I missing out ? I really don't think so and am very happy with that decision. If gullible idiots want to run Java in their browsers to access their bank account or anything else let them, it's their problem not mine.

As for it's application in DVDs, well it's a bit like ID Cards; put forward as an idea that will improve 'things' for everyone but actually is just little more than a way to enforce (with the ethernet port (WTF is a DVD player doing with an ethernet port)) more DRM, more snooping and to subvert control of the end user's equipment.

They can stuff their Java, their ethernet port and everything else.

P.s thankfully I have never encountered Java on eBay.

Re:Misconceptions, as usual (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12937467)

actually, java applets *are* java applications... you probably mean javascript ;-)

Re:Misconceptions, as usual (1)

mongus (131392) | more than 9 years ago | (#12937532)

No, Java applets can be but usually are not applications.

Java applications must have a method that matches the signature
public static void main(String[] args)

Applets must be derived from java.applet.Applet to work in a browser.

Re:Misconceptions, as usual (2)

Agent_9191 (812909) | more than 9 years ago | (#12937738)

With a great many applications all your have to do to make a Java application an applet is change the signature from
public static void main(String[] args)
to
init()
, derive from the Applet class and you have an applet. That is part of the appeal of Java, it really is easy to migrate the code to any environment.

Re:Misconceptions, as usual (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12937491)

actually was designed for applications exactly like this. only later it became the bloated crap for desktops and servers, and gone full circle to become the micro edition

Re:Misconceptions, as usual (-1, Troll)

AuMatar (183847) | more than 9 years ago | (#12937521)

Because Java is slow, takes a lot of processor cycles, and eats memory like there's no tomorrow. This is going to seriously hinder blu-ray adaption. A Java implementation means at least 30% more processor power and memory than otherwise needed. You may luck out and get the memory as a freebie due to powers of 2, but you won't get the processor cheaply. Thats at least $3 a unit. For those of you not in embedded fields, thats a *huge* amount- at 1M units a month its $3M/month, or $36M/yr. Consumer devices usually look to cut pennies- where I work, it requires several layers of management to add 5 cents worth of hardware, because volumes multiply the cost so high. That will put HD-DVD at a higher margin, leaving a lot of manufacturers on the side of HD.

Of course, the other question is: why do we need those annoying animated menus at all? Just give me a clean, normal menu and we have no reason to deal with Java.

Re:Misconceptions, as usual (4, Informative)

Decaff (42676) | more than 9 years ago | (#12937655)

Because Java is slow, takes a lot of processor cycles,

As shown by Linpack benchmarks run last year, Java can run at up to 95% of the speed of optimised C++.

and eats memory like there's no tomorrow.

Embedded Java systems can run in as little as a few hundred KB of memory.

This is going to seriously hinder blu-ray adaption.

Just as the use of Java on mobile phones has (not) hindered the production of Java games and applications for those phones?

A Java implementation means at least 30% more processor power and memory than otherwise needed.

Why not look at the real situation and not present a years-old outdated view of Java?

You are living in the stone age and dont know shit (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12937712)

yes java is not slow... only the mind of the parent.

Re:Misconceptions, as usual (0, Troll)

The_Wilschon (782534) | more than 9 years ago | (#12937568)

Well, for one thing, there's the issue of freedom [gnu.org] .

Then there's the fact that it is slow when compared to most other languages which are used for designing large scale systems (C, C++, etc.).

Then also, it is viewed as a favorite of suits, and therefore by (admittedly somewhat childish) knee-jerk reaction, it is derided by geeks.

Re:Misconceptions, as usual (1)

Decaff (42676) | more than 9 years ago | (#12937692)

Well, for one thing, there's the issue of freedom.

My view (and I could be wrong) is that most developers don't care. The zero financial price is the real reason for it's success.

Then there's the fact that it is slow when compared to most other languages which are used for designing large scale systems (C, C++, etc.).

This hasn't been true for years. I don't understand why this myth persists when almost all benchmarks have shown equivalent Java code to be within 80-100% of C,C++ speed for some time.

Then also, it is viewed as a favorite of suits, and therefore by (admittedly somewhat childish) knee-jerk reaction, it is derided by geeks.

If you look at the volume of Java projects on sourceforge and other sites, I would suggest that there are a lot of geeks who don't deride Java.

Scope widening too far? (4, Interesting)

Sv-Manowar (772313) | more than 9 years ago | (#12937406)

After reading the article, it seems to me that these new media standards are pushing far beyond just new ways to store video. Gosling is quoted as saying "Part of the DVD standard is the players have network ports out of the back". This just smacks of network controlled DRM, and the ability to run java bytecode when the discs boot could allow a whole new range of lockdown facilities on the disks. Not to mention the amount of complexity having network & JVM functionality must be introducing to the end units. Surely even mass production wil struggle to bring such complex devices down to sane prices in the near future.

This would appear to be strongly pushing the bias of practicality toward the opposing HD-DVD camp, while attempting to strengthen Blu-Ray's position as technologically more advanced and superior.

Re:Scope widening too far? (4, Interesting)

hsmith (818216) | more than 9 years ago | (#12937428)

yeah, but you are forgetting, using java could allow easy reverse engineering of the player. java is cake to reverse engineer, it would take someone no time to pump out a solution that lacks the DRM features, or atleast come up with a way to cirumvent the DRM features (such as a fake server to "authenticate" against)

i see it as a great thing

Re:Scope widening too far? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12937753)

java is cake to reverse engineer

The phrase that means "easy" is "a piece of cake", not "cake" by itself. If you don't know the idiomatic expression, don't use it.

Re:Scope widening too far? (2, Informative)

Decaff (42676) | more than 9 years ago | (#12937470)

This just smacks of network controlled DRM

Why?

and the ability to run java bytecode when the discs boot could allow a whole new range of lockdown facilities on the disks.

How is this different from running any other software when the discs boot? The use of Java bytecode has no relevance to lockdown.

Not to mention the amount of complexity having network & JVM functionality must be introducing to the end units. Surely even mass production wil struggle to bring such complex devices down to sane prices in the near future.

What complexity? Most new mobile phones have JVMs built in. There has been no struggle to bring these 'complex devices' to 'sane prices'.

Re:Scope widening too far? (1)

dreamchaser (49529) | more than 9 years ago | (#12937485)

Surely even mass production wil struggle to bring such complex devices down to sane prices in the near future.


You're kidding, right? Building a unit that can use Java for network connectivity and menus won't be very expensive. Your average TiVo box or PDA has more horsepower than they need for that, and I don't see a lot of problems with mass production of those.

I'd expect next-gen DVD players to enter the market at around a $200 price point anyways.

Seems very unlikley (4, Insightful)

SuperKendall (25149) | more than 9 years ago | (#12937518)

Although I see what you are saying about the danger of a network based DRM creeping into discs, I think it very unlikley - a deivce that requires a working network connection would not be nearly as mass-market as DVD players are today. It simply cannot be a requirement.

There may be some specialized discs that do something like this but I don't not think it will be mandatory.

It's closer than you think (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12937597)

This describes [google.com] the new RJ-11/phonejack "standard" that will be hitting the shelves very soon now, and will require a phoneline to play a DVD.

MOD PARENT DOWN GNAA "LAST MEASURE" REDIRECT (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12937640)

Mod parent down, GNAA troll redirects to "Last Measure" site.

Blu Ray Java based on iTV GEM? Blu Ray DRM based (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12937807)

I have been looking at developments in interactive TV (OCAP/ACAP/MHP, etc.) and I noticed that this site (http://www.mhp.org/mhp_technology/gem/ [mhp.org] ) had indicated that the Blu Ray organization was looking at using the Java-based GEM spec as the basis for interactive applications in Blu Ray media.

GEM also appears to be at the heart of the convergence efforts for iTV (DVB-MHP, OCAP, ACAP, and ARIB - otherwise known as the digital broadcast standards for Europe, North America, and Japan for over-the-air and cable TV).

One iTV standard would certainly simplify life for content developers, cable companies and broadcasters - but Microsoft and Toshiba are now pushing a Microsoft .NET based approach for HD DVD - and MS may be putting an HD DVD drives intothe Xbox 360 http://www.cooltechzone.com/index.php?option=conte nt&task=view&id=1473 [cooltechzone.com] ), coupled with MS's IPTV efforts - a unified iTV technology will be elusive.

That said, there may be a unified DRM technology between HD DVD and Blu Ray based on AACS. See this site http://www.aacsla.com/ [aacsla.com] for the specications. Apparently, we would be able to download and burn DRM'd content to HD media.

Fun fun fun.

JVM is not complex (1)

burnttoy (754394) | more than 9 years ago | (#12937660)

JVM is not complex at all. Any reasonable emulator coder could lash one up in no time. Getting it fast is another matter but JVM is designed to be implemented in silicon and as (a form of) stack machine is not to difficult to implement in a small amount of silicon.

slashdot finally through (0, Troll)

SparafucileMan (544171) | more than 9 years ago | (#12937418)

thanks for telling me what NOT to buy.

Re:slashdot finally through (1)

Decaff (42676) | more than 9 years ago | (#12937756)

thanks for telling me what NOT to buy.

Better not buy any new mobile phone then. Virtually all of them come with Java.

Re:slashdot finally through (1)

assassinator42 (844848) | more than 9 years ago | (#12937880)

So, would you rather get HD-DVD, which has windows, or blu-ray which has java? Or are you never going to get a high definition dvd player?

The more things change . . . (2, Insightful)

jvarsoke (80870) | more than 9 years ago | (#12937431)

Kinda funny, Java started as a language for programming TV cableboxes, and after years of evolving into everything from J2ME to J2EE, it finds itself back home atop the TV in DVD players.

Re:The more things change . . . (1)

spinozaq (409589) | more than 9 years ago | (#12937642)

An interesting point! Java was invented with incredible foresight. It is an amazing 'platform' ( notice I didn't say language. ) for embedded devices. It allows rapid development and consistant testing even the most esoteric environments. ( Mars rovers anyone? ) A few big time device deployments is all you need to work out the hardware details and Java and JINI technology will be everywhere.

Re:The more things change . . . (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12937783)

You are woefully ignorant of Java, aren't you? Do you have any experience with it whatsoever? Java was originally developed to control the throttle of the Boeing 767, do you google?

Ethernet port (1)

AveryRegier (66592) | more than 9 years ago | (#12937435)

The important innovation here is that each of these players will also include a network port. Together with Java, this will mean a huge amount of stuff that we can with these players.

One idea I'm not so sure about is that it could become a small game platform. DVDs tend to come with little built in games. In the future, they'll be networked. I'm sure this is just the tip of the iceburg.

Re:Ethernet port (1)

BiggerIsBetter (682164) | more than 9 years ago | (#12937509)

Or it could make call-home and DRM "features" easier to implement.

Re:Ethernet port (1)

AveryRegier (66592) | more than 9 years ago | (#12937534)

One 'call home' feature Gosling mentioned this morning is the ability to download a different language for the movie that may not have been included originally.

For that matter, you might get streaming media related to the movie updated over time. This one probably won't happen though since I don't see a good business model for it. Unless, of course, it is used for advertisements for additional media you have to pay for.

Re:Ethernet port (1)

KillShill (877105) | more than 9 years ago | (#12937547)

you assume very incorrectly that after paying for one of these devices, you foolishly think you "own" it.

keep dreaming though, it'll help you get through the dark times that are soon upon us.

Re:Ethernet port (1, Redundant)

jlarocco (851450) | more than 9 years ago | (#12937589)

It's not what WE can do with these players that worries me, it's what other people can do with them that worries me.

This immediately brought to mind very draconian DRM, viruses, spyware, and adware. It's bad enough advertisers try to find everywhere you go on the internet, do they really need to know all the movies people watch also?

What really scares me is when companies start requiring a network connection to watch the movies you buy. Yeah, it'll be cracked, but it's still a huge pain in the ass.

I see a whole lot of bad uses for this, and I already have a computer for all the "good" uses. So when given the choice between a $300 DVD player with all that crap, and a $100 DVD player without, the choice will be obvious.

Re:Ethernet port (1)

Suicyco (88284) | more than 9 years ago | (#12937631)

Yes, fear the unknowns of technology.

You know, not every household has a ethernet hub directly connected to the internet. What makes you think it would require that? Now, if they come standard with phone jacks, perhaps you may have something to worry about.

Also, the java VM may be part of the standard. That means, to play HD dvd content, you will need to use a player that adopts the standard. Is your $100 DVD player going to play the 40GB+ HD content dvd's? I don't think so.

Cache of older website dedicated to this (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12937438)

I don't know what happened to the real site, but there was a site (viewable here, now gone) [google.com] that had gobs of additional information. I think it was from the same people.

That's the wrong link, (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12937506)

correct link [google.com]

One of my absolute top peeves (4, Insightful)

SirSlud (67381) | more than 9 years ago | (#12937456)

Is it just me, or am I the only one completely freakin annoyed with DVD menus? One out of every two has a DVD menu that is absolutely infuriating from a usability perspective. Half the time I'm guessing at what is about to happen, as there appears to be not one freakin convention in the industry as to how DVD menus should be laid out, operate, and respond. I appears to be a totally 'make-work' industry, and nobody can convince me that the production of fancy interfaces doesn't cost a little extra. I'm not saying you can't figure them out after a little fumbling, but sheesh, I'm buying a movie and some comentary, not a magazine that happens to contain a movie.

ARGH. Probably one of my absolute top peeves of the last 10 years of technology. Its enough to make one weep for the comforting sight of a simple, nondescript blinking 12:00.

As for Java, I don't care what it is. I hope to god that interface creation is done through SOME kind of standardized framework or toolkit so at least widgets can at least act, if not look similar, DVD to DVD.

I know I'm asking for a lot tho, because it really seems to me that there are a lot of things in our technilogical world that are done simply because somebody sees a potential way to make money and successfully sells the problem (standardized DVD menus, in this case, the horror) to an industry.

Re:One of my absolute top peeves (4, Interesting)

Lisandro (799651) | more than 9 years ago | (#12937500)

Same here, but the "most annoying DVD feature of all time" prize goes to (taaa-daah!) unskippable trailers/clips/FBI warnings/whatever. In some recent releases, it's downright infuriating - with up to three movie trailers you have to go through before you can even get to the content.

Publicists should be shot.

Re:One of my absolute top peeves (1)

don.g (6394) | more than 9 years ago | (#12937794)

I've never seen a DVD which forces you to watch trailers. Is this a regional thing (I live in Region 4) or something that only happens with DVDs of very recent films?

Smartripper is your friend. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12937515)

Rip, edit, burn.

Bye-bye menus, trailers, etc.

DVD Shrink is also good.

Re:One of my absolute top peeves (1)

Adrilla (830520) | more than 9 years ago | (#12937591)

My new personal DVD peeve is transition animations in the menus. I click the play button on the menu and then I get a 5-10 animation just to start the movie that I wanna watch. I get even more frustrated when I click on a menu button that only leads to another menu, but still have to endure one of those animations. I don't need to see the screen blow up, or "OOH" the letters float outward toward me. I just want to get to my movie or to the next page, and yeah, your animation might be pretty but it's unnecessary and they're getting to be way too long. I can certainly live without em.

Re:One of my absolute top peeves (1)

justforaday (560408) | more than 9 years ago | (#12937605)

On a lot of those long animated transitions you can usually hit the select/OK button again and it will skip the animation and go straight to the menu. Or press the menu button twice to get to the main menu (if there's an intro sequence before the main menu).

Amen (1)

Urusai (865560) | more than 9 years ago | (#12937706)

I see a lot of little applications (usually bundled on a device driver CD) with ultra-kewel "skins" on them that have the same problem (look at the WMP skins, or any XMMS theme). Likewise, newer versions of Microsoft Office have stupid-looking toolbars and menus that aren't anything like standard Windows ones. I seem to recall that a consistent UI was one of the pitches for these GUIs in the first place. I'm assuming munging the UI in Office counts as a must-have upgrade since nothing substantive has changed since Office 97 or maybe 2000.

Re:One of my absolute top peeves (1)

IntergalacticWalrus (720648) | more than 9 years ago | (#12937708)

I completely agree. You'd figure by now the movie industry has figured that their menus are hard to use, especially to a computer-illeterate user (ie. probably more than half their audience).

Hell, since I moved away from my parents' house they no longer rent DVDs. Yep, back to VHS, because they find DVD menus too confusing and frustrating. They don't care about special features or better image/sound quality, so for them DVDs were only a step backwards. And I'm sure they're not the only ones who feel that way.

Re:One of my absolute top peeves (1)

chrysrobyn (106763) | more than 9 years ago | (#12937743)

Is it just me, or am I the only one completely freakin annoyed with DVD menus? One out of every two has a DVD menu that is absolutely infuriating from a usability perspective.

It's terribly inefficient, both from time, power and storage, but it's to the point where I'd rather rip the DVD to my hard drive and watch the DVD from my computer (on the computer screen or TV, depending on the video and if others in the family who want to see it). Get a DVD, put it in the computer, hit the button [m0k.org] , go to bed. Wake up, return the video to the store (or put it in the mail, depending on the service), see it at your leisure. Delete after viewing to balance digital rights with unconstitutionally powerful copyright laws that further the progress of neither science or arts.

The menu systems are infuriating while the unskippable commercials and warnings are downright insulting. I want the slower to deteriorate / better replayability of DVD and the users rights of VHS players (minus the Macrovision that meant I couldn't route my VCR through my DVD player because my TV didn't have enough inputs). Instead, I'm ripping DVDs to my computer, wasting some time and money and getting the home theater experience I want.

Re:One of my absolute top peeves (1)

rob_squared (821479) | more than 9 years ago | (#12937893)

Do what I do. Buy the DVD, rip it to something like best quality divx, then use nero vision express to burn it back to DVD and YOU choose the menu features. If you're like me, you just set it to play at disk insertion.

Not Java but JVM. (2, Insightful)

burnttoy (754394) | more than 9 years ago | (#12937477)

Editors, you should try to correct the original article not parrot it. 'nuff said

Anyhoo.. what they are saying (which I think is pretty cool) is that the movies will be scripted by programs "written in" java byte codes. Who cares what the language is (java is a language editors). It could even be Flash something or other, or C++ compiled on Windows as long as the output is JVM byte codes who cares. This _could_ lead to very interesting development tools and quite imaginative use of next gen disks.

More interesting would be knowing about the API to be specified along with JVM. It could even be DirectX. There's nothing to prevent that.

The API is more interesting as having picked a general purpose machine representation how general purpose will the API be that it uses?

Basically this is worth crap to Sun except for publicity. I thought the JVM specs were open(ish).

Re:Not Java but JVM. (1)

PCM2 (4486) | more than 9 years ago | (#12937573)

Uh, OK ... so how many people are writing code that gets output as Java bytecode but is not written in Java?

You sure you're not thinking of .Net? (And no, that's not a troll.)

Re:Not Java but JVM. (3, Interesting)

burnttoy (754394) | more than 9 years ago | (#12937643)

As far as I understand it the .Net technologies and this are complimentary in that they tackle different but similar problems. Although .Net supplies a byte code interpreter of its own (CLR) it isn't necessary to use it (in fact most .Net apps are compiled to x86 machine language). .Net supplies a standard for language and API linkage data, representations of API's if you like. JVM supplies a binary level interface for execution of code. Also, it isn't that people aren't (they are just in very small numbers) writing JVM byte code in something other than Java the point is they _can_. There are, I believe, JVM back ends for GCC for example. In this case JVM is being used a little like XML. The syntax is there (the mark up language) but the tags and data mean nothing unless you know what they mean (XHTML for example). This is why I think information on the API is probably as interesting, if not more so, than the machine level programming model.

Re:Not Java but JVM. (1)

Sengoku666 (818137) | more than 9 years ago | (#12937826)

The JVM specs are indeed open, in fact much of the detail is left up to the implementer to decide how they want to approach designing it. I'm using Sun's reference implementation of the KVM* for my PhD on hardware-based Java at uni, which is available free of charge from Sun under their community source license.
Its when you want Sun's Java certification on your commercial JVM that you have to pay the big bucks.

*The KVM is a J2ME machine, which is likely what these boxes are going to use - its designed to be fairly lightweight for embedded systems. They will probably come with some standard J2ME (CDC/CLDC/MIDP) APIs, and likely a custom one for menus and other disc operations.

Sorry for all the acronyms :).

My DVD player already has Flash. (3, Informative)

metalpet (557056) | more than 9 years ago | (#12937493)

> Next stop, annoying Flash intros.

The playstation 2 already has a flash player in it, used by various games for their menu systems among other things.
I guess game companies try not to annoy their customers, so Flash gets used reasonably there.

Java DVD Player + network connection + Azureus (3, Interesting)

Scott Swezey (678347) | more than 9 years ago | (#12937494)

Damn, now we just need to get these things a network connection and a plugin for Azureus, then I can download new movies before their released, watch them on my TV, and maybe if its also one of those nifty VHS/DVD combo things, burn my new movie to a disk.

Re:Java DVD Player + network connection + Azureus (0, Flamebait)

kromozone (817261) | more than 9 years ago | (#12937665)

For the record, Azureus is a piece of crap.

Could be much nicer for DVD content creation apps (4, Informative)

SuperKendall (25149) | more than 9 years ago | (#12937535)

The inclusion of Java could lead to nicer open source DVD authoring apps that would allow easier control over menu workings. And it's a lot nicer to have a standard language underneath rather than the cryptic menu building language of todays DVD's.

At the very least those games they always throw on kids DVD's might not be so awful to play if they do not have to be shoe-horned into a system never really designed for games.

Relax (1)

Smurfboy (125424) | more than 9 years ago | (#12937542)

"Next stop, annoying Flash intros."

Relax, Mr. Slippery Slope: Java is just a programming language.

k.h.

The only appliances that are fit for Java: (1, Troll)

VeganBob (888165) | more than 9 years ago | (#12937565)

- Toasters
- Microwaves
- Refridgerators

Re:The only appliances that are fit for Java: (2, Funny)

Waikikamukau Slim (895286) | more than 9 years ago | (#12937608)

Not true. My coffee machine is <b>perfectly</b> fit for Java.

Re:The only appliances that are fit for Java: (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12937635)

I dunno, my last attempt at making coffee in my toaster didn't turn out too well.

**Greetings from $afterlife!**

Java and Linux... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12937610)

Over a period, I have developed feeling that the advantage Java has ("Write once run everywhere") is also available in "Linux". Java technology enables a layer on OS that makes "a virtual machine" out of any of the OS available. Whereas Linux provides a real machine.. and a large variety of programs (c, c++, perl, ruby, python, php) are executable and they do offer "Write once run everywhere" advantage. If Sun does not open source Java sooner, it will lose it to Linux.

Re:Java and Linux... (1)

Decaff (42676) | more than 9 years ago | (#12937715)

If Sun does not open source Java sooner, it will lose it to Linux.

Show me a version of Linux that can run within a few hundred kilobytes of memory, like embedded Java, and I might agree you have a point.

More integration... (1)

ruiner13 (527499) | more than 9 years ago | (#12937653)

So what makes this more attractive than the PS3? I don't see why they want to add games to a basic DVD player. A normal blue-ray DVD player might be around the same price when they both start hitting the market full-scale.

This convergence thing is really starting to go too far. Does anyone else agree, or do people actually want all your products to do a gazillion things?

Re:More integration... (1)

Adrilla (830520) | more than 9 years ago | (#12937909)

I would love for my products to do a bunch of things in one...IF they did everything they were supposed to do well. But the norm is that when your player does more than one standard thing, you give up quality and functions from each component involved and that is the unfortunate part. I've become a minimalist when it comes to components. So I'd like to put as much as I can in the smallest space possible, but as of now, I don't trust many multifunction components. But if I could get excellent craftsmanship and all the features I'd get if I bought these pieces separately, then I wouldn't mind having an all in one package.

Applet Started (0, Troll)

peggus (749983) | more than 9 years ago | (#12937673)

So now when I pop the DVD in it will say "applet started" and then nothing will happen.

DVD's With Really Cool Win95 UI (1)

mpapet (761907) | more than 9 years ago | (#12937684)

It's funny how every specialty manufacturer attempts to reach out to another not-new-and-already-dominated market segment with an idea that they should have committed to years ago.

It sounds like they want some kind of time shifting device that's network enabled. Let's see, time shifting? Yup done. Now networked media device? Yup done.

So that means my mega-corporation will make a device that will be higher priced that no one will buy because the price is too high and the feature set too vague! "Let's do it! Come on! Who is with me!!!"

DVD players huh, so how long (1)

DrBytes (695593) | more than 9 years ago | (#12937760)

.. will it takes us to get that f*cker to boot the kernel?

Glad to hear it (1)

IGnatius T Foobar (4328) | more than 9 years ago | (#12937770)

I'm happy to see this. It's a big piece of the technology market that is going to be occupied by someone other than Microsoft. Can you imagine if every DVD player in the future had Windows and .NET in it? It would take less than a year for Microsoft to begin forcing all DVD player owners to become XBox owners.

Perfect! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12937774)

A bluray disk might actually provide enough memory for Java.

ARG (0, Flamebait)

GoClick (775762) | more than 9 years ago | (#12937816)

Wow just what I always wanted, DVDs that crash and lock up the system or that keep records of things. Oh hey why not that need you to insert a patch CD first before going through some moronic high tech looking idiot made interface so that you can do stupid things, I liked the old days when you just put the things into the things and the moving pictures showed up in the magic box!

This is a disaster waiting to happen.

No this isn't a shot at Java this is a shot at over building things. What's next Java in my car?

Thanks, Java! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12937846)

Thanks for letting me know which DVD players to avoid.

"Hey, y'know, this app is just too fast. Let's add Java to it. We can be cutting edge and slow as shit all at the same time!"
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