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Longhorn Preview

CmdrTaco posted more than 9 years ago | from the not-a-leak-for-a-change dept.

Windows 587

itraor writes "PC World has previewed Longhorn, not the first one out I guess. Among the few noted features is that Windows now offers translucent UI, finally catching up with Apple. "

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Microsoft Longhorn... (-1, Troll)

BorisSkratchunkov (642046) | more than 9 years ago | (#12985306)

...now with prettier buttons! Oooh! Just what I wanted to blow $300 USD on!

Re:Microsoft Longhorn... (4, Interesting)

Skye16 (685048) | more than 9 years ago | (#12985404)

Surely "prettier" is a subjective term. I took one look at the screen shots and blurted out "...what the fuck!"

I guess I just have vastly different aesthetic tastes than the Windows UI designers. Sucks to be me.

Re:Microsoft Longhorn... (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12985466)

Of course you'll be disabling those buttons to reduce load on the CPU so that it can be used for proper apps.

Re:Microsoft Longhorn... (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12985482)

If they're truly copying Apple, it will be offloaded to the GPU. Chances are though it's a cheap microsoft replica, and you are correct it will gobble up CPU, but hey, isn't that exactly what new versions of Windows are for?

*ducks*

RE Apple (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12985308)

Hasn't microsoft sort of always followed apple?

Re:RE Apple (-1, Flamebait)

cflorio (604840) | more than 9 years ago | (#12985425)

Too bad they won't follow Apple and put a Unix or *nix backend to their nasty OS.

Re:RE Apple (0, Flamebait)

MyLongNickName (822545) | more than 9 years ago | (#12985441)

Yup. Except for their business sense. Microsoft likes to make profits, Apple only recently started following that business model.

That and using proprietary hardware.... Apple is only begining to get their head out or their ass on that one. Can you imagine what Apple could have been, if they only had business people who understood how things work? They'd be the monopoly everyone complains about...

Alternate reality Apple (3, Funny)

krell (896769) | more than 9 years ago | (#12985520)

' Can you imagine what Apple could have been, if they only had business people who understood how things work? '

You know, if this happened, they might actaully turn a profit! See this [yeald.com] alternate-reality business page to find out what this would be like. Imagine if Apple made a device called an "ipod" and made money on it. Pretty far fetched, huh? As for me, I'm sticking to 8-tracks. This "ipod" idea is pure scifi.

'Microsoft likes to make profits. Apple only recently started following that business model.'

Yes, Apple has never turned a profit. This is why they are hardly hanging in there, and have been pretty much wiped out in the computer arena by Exidy, Commodore, and Atari.

Re:RE Apple (3, Insightful)

SolusSD (680489) | more than 9 years ago | (#12985481)

Pretty much.. smart folders (macosx 10.4), translucency and 3d effects (OSX, aqua), database file system search (spotlight, google desktop search, beagle, kat, etc), tabbed browsing (firefox, opera, konqueror, et al), restricted user account (well .. a real implimentation would mean rewriting countless windows programs and an overhaul of the windows permission system... unix and unixlike)

I don't remember the last time microsoft showed ANY innovation of its own. anyone?

Logo (4, Insightful)

jfengel (409917) | more than 9 years ago | (#12985310)

I love the "bell and whistle" logo they've applied to the story. Very appropriate, especially since the review discussess little besides the eye candy.

Re:Logo (4, Funny)

Enigma_Man (756516) | more than 9 years ago | (#12985327)

Really, finally, a transparent UI you can be bored with in 10 minutes and put back to being opaque. Such innovation!

-Jesse

Re:Logo (5, Funny)

sg3000 (87992) | more than 9 years ago | (#12985377)

> Really, finally, a transparent UI you can be bored with in 10
> minutes and put back to being opaque. Such innovation!

Maybe, but luckily your boredom will be cured two minutes after that [slashdot.org] .

Re:Logo (5, Insightful)

cybersaga (451046) | more than 9 years ago | (#12985402)

The review discussess little besides the eye candy.

That's because there wasn't anything else to talk about. From TFA:
"But it doesn't yet exhibit any breakthroughs in productivity, or promised features such as security improvements and smarter connections to handheld devices."

Everyday, Longhorn seems to be more like XP with a new look.

Finally catching up with Apple... (3, Funny)

PakProtector (115173) | more than 9 years ago | (#12985312)

...in 3 to 5 more years.

Zing!

Re:Finally catching up with Apple... (5, Insightful)

NanoGator (522640) | more than 9 years ago | (#12985445)

"Finally catching up with Apple in 3 to 5 more years."

Linux: Finally catching up to Windows... in 3 to 5 more years!!!!

(note: If you're about to mod that as troll, lighten up.)

giggle (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12985493)

Apple Zealots are soooo funny.

Translucent UI? (0, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12985313)

Why the fuck would I want everything translucent?

Windows has had the ability for years (1)

TigerTime (626140) | more than 9 years ago | (#12985454)

If you use the nVidia software (nView i think) it can change your desktop to enable this feature. However, I leave it turned off because it's a waste of processing power.

I would hope this will be a setting that I can turn off.

Re:Windows has had the ability for years (1)

mahdi13 (660205) | more than 9 years ago | (#12985506)

more then a waste of processing power...it's ugly and serves almost no purpose besides "look what we can do!"

Re:Translucent UI? (1)

HaloZero (610207) | more than 9 years ago | (#12985545)

So you can inspect the electronics inside your monitor, without removing the front cover.

Re:Translucent UI? (2, Funny)

NeoThermic (732100) | more than 9 years ago | (#12985559)

I'm sure you've made a valid point. However, I can't quite read it. I've set my browser window to 100% translucent, and I can't for the love of anything actually see it. So I'm typing at keys randomly in the hope that I undo what I did....

NeoThermic

Rob Malda - EDITOR EXROARDINAIRE!!! (1, Troll)

Seumas (6865) | more than 9 years ago | (#12985314)

"PC World has previewed Longhorn. Not the first one out, I guess. Among the few noted features is that Windows now offers translucent UI. Finally catching up with Apple."

Christ, Taco. My smegma [wikipedia.org] is a more qualified editor than you.

Oh well. At least it isn't another fucking dupe.

Re:Rob Malda - EDITOR EXROARDINAIRE!!! (0, Offtopic)

suttree.com (891029) | more than 9 years ago | (#12985333)

Speaking of smegma, it does look like he just .bashed that one out on us.

Ewww...

Re:Rob Malda - EDITOR EXROARDINAIRE!!! (2, Funny)

kevin_conaway (585204) | more than 9 years ago | (#12985384)

"Finally catching up with Apple" is a sentence fragment. Please consider revising.

Re:Rob Malda - EDITOR EXROARDINAIRE!!! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12985463)

Maybe, just maybe the article was moderated that way? Go read the original article to find out...

my story (0, Offtopic)

jihadijimmz (897464) | more than 9 years ago | (#12985388)

hey guys,

i'm not sure exactly what i'm doing here. so...bear with me!

i clicked "geeky" on my match.com personals profile, thinking that i'd maybe get - hooked up with somebody who was into math or some kind of toy train hobby or something...boy howdy was i in for a shock! i went on 4 dates with guys who all got on match.com because of osdn personals from slash-dot! 4 guys!

anyway, it didn't really work out with any of them, because it seemed like they were all under some kind of mind-control robot or something! i was like "what do you think about office? office 97 is enough for me, but there are some things about xp that are cool too...." the first guy i asked that to exploded on this tyrade about how office was evil, and that it uses html that's invalid...blah blah blah, whatever...i figured "ok, this guys a freak, but i'm not giving up that easily." so guy number two and i are having dinner, and just as a test i bring up office, and he says the *exact* *same* *things* the first guy said! it was like he was reading from a script! i'm thinking to myself "is everybody from slash-dot programmed to say the same thing or what?" i decided to do a bit of investigation.

i actually surfed over to slash-dot and read some of the articles...mostly they were pretty boring, and the comments were just like i expected judging from my previous past experience: scripted!!! just when i was about to completely write the whole thing off, i found a post from some guy who's with anti-slash, some kind of anti-slash-dot website. i mailed him and was all "i so agree with you guys, look at what sheep these slash-dot people are!" he wrote back and made some funny comments (funny and so *true*!...that is soooo the best kind of humor...but i dirgress...) and guess what? this weekend i'm supposed to meet him for dinner :) if you're reading this, i look forward to meeting you in person, john!

anyway, that's my story. ladies: if you're looking for the real cool geeks, check out anti-slash [anti-slash.org] . and fellas, you should check it out too and maybe use to to break out of your mind-control suits!

ok see ya later,

cyndi

And the quality just gets better ... (3, Interesting)

bushboy (112290) | more than 9 years ago | (#12985316)

"PC World has previewed Longhorn, not the first one out i guess. Amoung the few noted features is that Windows now offers transluscent UI, finally catching up with Apple. "

And who said Slashdot doesn't have quality control ?

my experience with slash-dot (0, Offtopic)

jihadijimmz (897464) | more than 9 years ago | (#12985320)

hey guys,

i'm not sure exactly what i'm doing here. so...bear with me!

i clicked "geeky" on my match.com personals profile, thinking that i'd maybe get hooked up with somebody who was into math or some kind of toy train hobby or something...boy howdy was i in for a shock! i went on 4 dates with guys who all got on match.com because of osdn personals from slash-dot! 4 guys!

anyway, it didn't really work out with any of them, because it seemed like they were all under some kind of mind-control robot or something! i was like "what do you think about office? office 97 is enough for me, but there are some things about xp that are cool too...." the first guy i asked that to exploded on this tyrade about how office was evil, and that it uses html that's invalid...blah blah blah, whatever...i figured "ok, this guys a freak, but i'm not giving up that easily." so guy number two and i are having dinner, and just as a test i bring up office, and he says the *exact* *same* *things* the first guy said! it was like he was reading from a script! i'm thinking to myself "is everybody from slash-dot programmed to say the same thing or what?" i decided to do a bit of investigation.

i actually surfed over to slash-dot and read some of the articles...mostly they were pretty boring, and the comments were just like i expected judging from my previous past experience: scripted!!! just when i was about to completely write the whole thing off, i found a post from some guy who's with anti-slash, some kind of anti-slash-dot website. i mailed him and was all "i so agree with you guys, look at what sheep these slash-dot people are!" he wrote back and made some funny comments (funny and so *true*!...that is soooo the best kind of humor...but i dirgress...) and guess what? this weekend i'm supposed to meet him for dinner :) if you're reading this, i look forward to meeting you in person, john!

anyway, that's my story. ladies: if you're looking for the real cool geeks, check out anti-slash [anti-slash.org] . and fellas, you should check it out too and maybe use to to break out of your mind-control suits!

ok see ya later,

cyndi

Re:my experience with slash-dot (1)

markild (862998) | more than 9 years ago | (#12985367)

And besides this, everything's good you say?

The Book of Apple, Chapter 8... (4, Funny)

Isosceles Triangle (264859) | more than 9 years ago | (#12985323)

Hmmm...more & more like Copeland evey day...

Re:The Book of Apple, Chapter 8... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12985548)

I guess they imitate that OS to make people more likely to cope with it. :-p

article text, for those who don't need 1,000 ads (4, Informative)

0110011001110101 (881374) | more than 9 years ago | (#12985325)

Longhorn Preview

The newest versions of the next Windows add graphics sizzle and more search features but lack visible productivity enhancements.

Scott Spanbauer From the August 2005 issue of PC World magazine Posted Wednesday, June 22, 2005

The most recent build of Longhorn--Microsoft's next Windows--has some impressive visual touches, including the kinds of translucent objects found now in Apple's OS X, and more powerful ways of finding files. But it doesn't yet exhibit any breakthroughs in productivity, or promised features such as security improvements and smarter connections to handheld devices.

We tested the 64-bit version of the latest code released to developers (Longhorn build 5048) and have also viewed demonstrations of a subsequent build. The first beta version of the operating system is due for release this summer.

Over the last several years, Microsoft has touted Longhorn's trio of significant innovations: a graphics engine dubbed Avalon; a technology called Indigo that enables programs on different computers or devices to communicate; and an indexed, searchable data storage layer called WinFS. But when faced with a self-imposed release deadline of late 2006, Microsoft decided last year to pull WinFS out of Longhorn, promising to release that component as an add-on at a later date.

So what of the two remaining Longhorn design pillars? A new desktop theme called Aero is about the only sign of Avalon graphics in our pre-beta. Turning mundane buttons, window frames, title bars, and icons into animated, 3D-rendered, and sometimes transparent objects, Aero brings the Windows interface to life. Indigo, which supports enhanced Web services, won't be visible to end users.

But even though WinFS is now out of the mix, Microsoft has taken advantage of file attributes in the NTFS file system already available in Windows XP to make Explorer better at ferreting out documents according to author, camera model (for photographs), or genre or album title (for music files). The operating system lets you create virtual lists based on these attributes so that, for example, you can see every photo on your system or all Microsoft Word files, regardless of where they are stored and without having to explicitly search for them.

Longhorn will also do a better job of connecting to smart phones (Microsoft wouldn't indicate whether the phones would have to run the company's Windows Mobile operating system), cameras, and audio players, improving their integration into Explorer and making file transfers and synchronization more consistent across device types. Still notably absent from the Longhorn builds we've looked at are new versions of the Internet Explorer browser (even though Microsoft has said it is close to releasing a beta of IE 7) or any other bundled utilities. Gone, for the time being anyway, is the desktop sidebar that lurked in previous preliminary versions of Longhorn.

And in spite of announced planned enhancements such as monitoring of outbound data (Windows XP's firewall watches inbound traffic only), protection against malware, a new type of restricted user account, and a secure startup scheme to ensure that a PC hasn't been tampered with, Longhorn so far has the same minimal security toolbox as Windows XP with Service Pack 2.

Though security remains an unresolved issue, build 5048 brings Longhorn's graphical user interface into sharper focus.

Catch-Up Eye Candy
The new Avalon graphics engine includes a programming interface that permits Microsoft and third-party software makers alike to write applications that put the latest and greatest graphics cards to work rotating, texturing, and fading windows, as well as making menus, title bars, and other elements translucent--finally enabling Windows to catch up to Apple's OS X, several years after the fact.

We managed to activate a subset of these features in our copy of Longhorn build 5048, and they're certainly welcome refinements (see top screen). Nevertheless, the integration of accelerated graphics effects into Windows is a luxury upgrade, not a must-have productivity enhancer. And although the effects in Avalon won't necessarily require bleeding-edge hardware, they will call for a graphics board compatible with the new Longhorn Display Driver Model, likely ruling out many legacy systems.

Microsoft has yet to announce minimum Longhorn system requirements, but for PC buyers seeking insurance that a new system will run Longhorn, the company advises getting 512MB of RAM and a "modern" CPU--more than Windows XP needs. As with most of the recent Windows updates, the easiest way to get Longhorn will be on a new PC, and by late 2006 most PCs will be 64-bit. Reflecting that trend, all editions of Longhorn will include both 32-bit and 64-bit versions. (Microsoft officials say that they are still mulling over whether features included in the Tablet PC and Media Center editions of XP will continue to require special editions of Windows.)

Less clear in build 5048 is Microsoft's vision for searching, indexing, and grouping files. WinFS was intended to create a systemwide data-indexing system accessible to Windows and to various applications, both on the local computer system and on linked devices. With the removal of WinFS from Longhorn, indexing is scaled back, although not forgotten. Familiar folders like My Documents and My Pictures still allow you to sort contents according to attribute type, such as file date, size, author, title, subject, attached keywords, bit rate (in the case of audio files), or camera model (in the case of digital pictures).

Regrettably, Microsoft won't immediately extend virtual lists and other Longhorn search and indexing capabilities to third-party apps. Those programs will have to wait for the appearance of WinFS sometime after Longhorn's release.

Perhaps conscious that its failure to satisfactorily secure Internet Explorer has driven millions of the browser's users to switch to the Mozilla Foundation's Firefox--and possibly hoping to avoid a similar exodus to Mac OS X or Linux--Microsoft has announced several security initiatives such as a new low-rights user account that will let the owner make routine system changes (such as installing a driver) while limiting malware exposure.

Buyers of new 64-bit computers will undoubtedly opt for Longhorn's enchanting interface and new device support--especially if security improves. It remains to be seen, though, whether additional innovations will give Windows XP users more reason to upgrade.

Scott Spanbauer is a PC World contributing editor.

Re:article text, for those who don't need 1,000 ad (4, Insightful)

zoney_ie (740061) | more than 9 years ago | (#12985516)

What ads?

This message courtesy of: Adblock and RemoveIt Permanently.

Obligatory spelling comment (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12985328)

Why can't /. editors spell check posts?

amoung - among

Hardware Translucency in Linux (1, Interesting)

mnemonic_ (164550) | more than 9 years ago | (#12985330)

Windows has supported hardware alpha blending since Windows 2000. OS X has supported it since about the same time. When will X.org and desktop environments bring this capability to linux?

Re:Hardware Translucency in Linux (3, Informative)

Rosyna (80334) | more than 9 years ago | (#12985409)

No, Windows doesn't support per pixel alpha levels. Just per window alpha. And when you do set per window alpha, weird things happen if you drag a non-transparent window over a transparent one (sometimes the image of the non-transparent one will be "embedded" in the transparent one).

Walk before you can run (5, Insightful)

mcc (14761) | more than 9 years ago | (#12985415)

Personally, given my experiences with linux so far, if it were up to me I'd concentrate more on building a GUI where you can change the monitor resolution to the resolution you want when you want it on arbitrary systems, without having to ever edit a file named "XF86Config".

Re:Walk before you can run (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12985502)

You can.

Re:Hardware Translucency in Linux (1)

cybersaga (451046) | more than 9 years ago | (#12985429)

Whenever you get around to writing it.

Re:Hardware Translucency in Linux (1)

Henriok (6762) | more than 9 years ago | (#12985540)

Max OS X have had GPU supportet transparency since Panther, through Quartz Extreme. Prevoiusly, it was all done on the CPU.

Mmmmm (1)

ceeam (39911) | more than 9 years ago | (#12985332)

Translucent UI. With frills!

Transparency (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12985334)

What the hell is everyone's fascination with transparency. Get a big LCD (or a second LCD) if you need to see stuff. I don't get why it's such a wonder-feature.

Re:Transparency (1)

tomhudson (43916) | more than 9 years ago | (#12985501)

... or use a window manager that supports screen pagers ... I mean, wtf, Windows 3.1 had a shareware add-on that let you page screens, and there was even an old DOS utility that let you page multiple mono screens in the video buffer.

Of course, having tried Microsoft's screen pager (limited to 4 screens - LOSER), only to find out it doesn't work with a LOT of programs (in other words, anything I use) I can see why they'd focus on eye candy - they didn't do their graphics libs right in the first place, and simply CAN'T get rid of the cruft w/o breaking something else.

Other users
try out his Win
then throw their keyboards
back at him
he needs *NIX
Burma-Shave

Catching up using eye candy? (4, Insightful)

powerline22 (515356) | more than 9 years ago | (#12985338)

Okay, from what I see about this beta, Microsoft is using the eye candy just for that, to show everyone how aweseome Longhorn is because your titlebars are semi-transparent. OOO! I'm totally uprading because of that!

Looks like it will cause some nastyy readability problems. Apple uses eye candy in OS X for a reason! the windows suck down to the dock so you can see where they went. The active window has shadows to let you know its the active window. Users change with a cube flip because its easier on their brains. I'm afraid that this would do nothing but chew up processor resources with crap that I don't find useful. Expect a lot of eyecandy-disabling apps to come out very quickly.

Readability problems (3, Insightful)

krell (896769) | more than 9 years ago | (#12985412)

' Looks like it will cause some nastyy readability problems '

That is a good point. There is a reason that in the "paper office", stuff is not printed on translucent or transparent paper unless there is some specific reason. I've seen these menus, and they are much less readable. It is like the problem with "Aqua", with its unreadable very-low-contrast buttons. Is this a case of Microsoft copying the "look" without the "feel" with less-than-optimal results?

Re:Catching up using eye candy? (4, Informative)

garcia (6573) | more than 9 years ago | (#12985428)

Expect a lot of eyecandy-disabling apps to come out very quickly.

You mean like the disabling apps in the Control Panel? Like System -> Advanced -> Performance (Visual effects, processor scheduling, memory usage, and virtual memory)?

Re:Catching up using eye candy? (1)

MustardMan (52102) | more than 9 years ago | (#12985474)

ALL windows on os X have drop shadows, not just the active one. IMHO the real reason for the addition of drop shadows is it gives a more intuitive visual cue on where window borders lie.

Re:Catching up using eye candy? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12985551)

however the active window has a slight bolder, darker shadow beneath it. yet another visual cue for window focusing

Video Cards are ready (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12985339)

So MS is playing catch up with Apple because of adding translucents that Apple already has? Well my video card offers translucents and it takes a newer video card to do it without bogging down the system. The Nvidia cards I have can make widows translucent while dragging them around on the screen that is offered as an add-on instead of making it a part of the OS. No this isn't a follow the leader it is follow the hardware availability schema. What are the odds of you upgrading your video card simply for an OS - Probably not high for most of the computer users? MS is just using what will be available and has very little to do with Apple except maybe it was a good idea who's time has come.

Oh my God (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12985341)

That interface is more cluttered and garish than go.com, or some other failed late-90s "web portal". I'm used to trying to help users who wind up with some kind of mental block against using the start menu because every time they click on the start menu they're so overwhelmed with confusing options and information they don't understand that it's more than they can hendle. I guess I should preemptively get used to helping users who wind up with a similar mental block against using the windows file browser.

I thought, when I first saw that Mac OS X release, that no one would ever make a clumsier, more overdesigned OS theme. Microsoft seems to be doing their absolute best to prove me wrong with every single release, reaching new heights of gangly ugliness with first "luna", then "avalon"...

Everything is just "piled on" (5, Insightful)

Peter Cooper (660482) | more than 9 years ago | (#12985399)

I agree with the parent. There seems to be no real cohesion to the new theme. Everything just seems to be bundled on top of each other. If these were the first Longhorn screenshots out, that'd be fine.. but we've been seeing the same for a year now.

In the screenshots it appears there's no difference made between menus and toolbars anymore.. the menus just kinda blur into them. Icons are different sizes. Different sized toolbars just smudge into each other and look messy. There seems to be no thought put into it.

Microsoft never ceases to amaze me. The company has billions of dollars (and they don't get it by writing checks I know) but they supposedly have some of the "best minds" out there.. and yet their products and interfaces are so scrappy? I know being Microsoft isn't easy.. they've got to be compatible, they've got lots of products to integrate.. lots of hardware to support.. but heck, can't they at least get decent interface design? It's not like it's a billion dollar job. Even people working for nothing, like the xfce people, do a better job.

Ugh. (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12985342)

That summary hurts my brain. Here you go:

itraor writes "PC World has previewed Longhorn, not the most recent build out, I guess. Among the few noted features ... that Windows now offers is a translucent UI. Is Microsoft finally catching up with Apple?"

Were you speed-typing to beat the queue?

No word on XAML (2, Informative)

Jose-S (890442) | more than 9 years ago | (#12985347)

Is XAML going to be available in the Longhorn beta?

I look forward to trying it out myself (1)

ReformedExCon (897248) | more than 9 years ago | (#12985352)

Although I am looking forward to trying out the system myself when possible, I am afraid that it will not be enough to induce me to switch until I buy a new PC altogether.

Microsoft more or less peaked with Windows 2000, both functionality-wise and UI-wise. Even when I use WindowsXP, I find myself reverting the UI to the original Windows 2000 theme before being able to do any work.

The one big issue with all Windows operating systems after Windows 2000 is the problem with installation restrictions that prevent me from reinstalling the OS easily when I seem to have trouble. Not that Windows XP needs to be reinstalled very often, but I'd at least like the ability to do so without having to call up the Microsoft helpdesk. I am afraid that Longhorn will have the same issue, and that single issue will keep me from appreciating the operating system's other good features.

Headlines running together in my head (4, Funny)

Reverend528 (585549) | more than 9 years ago | (#12985353)

For a second, I read "Longhorn Preview Infected in 12 Minutes".

Re:Headlines running together in my head (1)

pHatidic (163975) | more than 9 years ago | (#12985387)

They really should have tried to let Longhorn get infected by XP viruses to sees if Longhorn is actually secure or not.

Re:Headlines running together in my head (2, Informative)

LO0G (606364) | more than 9 years ago | (#12985484)

This is /., so I'm going to get pedantic.

A virus does not rely on any vulnerability in the platform to propogate. Instead, a virus attaches itself to an executable and spreads itself when the executable is launched. So, by definition, Longhorn will be as vulnerable as XP to a virus. And Linux 2. will be just as vulnerabile as Linux 2.. And OSX 10.4 will be as vulnerable as OSX 10.3. As long as you can run binary content, your platform is vulnerable to viruses.

Now worms are another story, since they're self propogating. It would make sense to ensure that Longhorn can't be infected by any XP worms.

And trojans are a third category of malware - the thing about trojans is that they're spread by user interaction - the user wants to see the dancing penguins so they click on an attachment. And along with the dancing penguins comes a rootkit.

What's interesting about the 3rd category is that it applies to all platforms. For example, Beagle spread itself by using a password protected Zip file - in order to be infected, the user had to type in the password to the Zip file. If the user will type in a password to see the dancing penguins, then they'll safe the file to disk, and chmod +e the file so that they can execute it.

Re:Headlines running together in my head (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12985437)

LMFAO...I would love that so darn much....oh god _*please*_ make it happen...

Re:Headlines running together in my head (1)

Jugalator (259273) | more than 9 years ago | (#12985453)

Now, the question is if it was a vision or a confusion. ;-)

Looks like they've got their focus... (4, Insightful)

mopslik (688435) | more than 9 years ago | (#12985369)

And in spite of announced planned enhancements such as monitoring of outbound data, ... protection against malware, a new type of restricted user account, and a secure startup scheme to ensure that a PC hasn't been tampered with, Longhorn so far has the same minimal security toolbox as Windows XP with Service Pack 2.

Though security remains an unresolved issue, build 5048 brings Longhorn's graphical user interface into sharper focus.

Soooooo, little development with respect to security, but more colourful icons. Super.

Re:Looks like they've got their focus... (1)

drsmithy (35869) | more than 9 years ago | (#12985491)

Soooooo, little development with respect to security [...]

Given the vast bulk of security problems lie with applications and users, what else did you expect ?

Re:Looks like they've got their focus... (1)

mopslik (688435) | more than 9 years ago | (#12985529)

Given the vast bulk of security problems lie with applications and users, what else did you expect?

I don't know. Maybe the "new type of restricted user account" to start? Just an idea. I'm fully aware that anyone determined enough to run as "root" will still be able to do so.

The golden trifecta (2, Funny)

chman (746363) | more than 9 years ago | (#12985373)

Loose spelling, poor grammar, and lots of trolling. Oh, itraor, if only you had linked to your own in-depth analysis on your blog, you would have had the Slashdot Superfecta.

Better luck next time.

well (0, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12985378)

Yes, once again its another dupe - why is everyone still so surprised that this happens? The 'editors' barely pay lip service to their title and I doubt very much that they read the comments either. At face value there is no real passion from the creators of the site - its just the same old shit day after day.

To explain further, Slashdot exists for one purpose: to make money for parent company OSDN. There is nothing wrong with that in itself but don't expect a high quality site the way its currently run. The Slashdot business model (if you can call it that) seems to be to provoke reaction from the loyal crowd of slashbots that frequent the site. Inflammatory / trollish stories (e.g here [slashdot.org] ) and dupes cause the page hits (and therefore ad revenue) to go through the roof.

As a result, most of the comments I see on the stories are neither insightful, interesting or informative. There seems to be no real balanced discussion - something I feel is a product of the moderation system which rewards those who conform to the slashbot mindset and censors everything else. This democratic method of editing the comments is terrible - especially where technical issues are concerned, as a lot of nonsense is modded up by people who don't know otherwise.

You are probably wondering why I read Slashdot. Partly morbid curiosity and partly to laugh at both the flame wars which invevitably break out and the well crafted trolls.

To conclude, Slashdot is neither really "News for Nerds" nor is it "Stuff that matters". If you want the former, go to somewhere like arstechnica [arstechnica.com] ] or kuroshin [kuro5hin.org] and if you want actual stuff that matters: Infoshop [infoshop.org]

yeah... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12985380)

Not that I think microsoft is the cat's meow or anything, but I'm getting tired of thinly veiled attacks in the tech media lately.

Articles like 'I tried to install windows LOL it sux0rs', 'longhorn delayed/missing features... whats up MS', and 'MS bought another company today and does what that fag mcnealy and ellison would kill to do: bent us over' all need to be marked: '-5 karma whore'

New Features (1)

rlp (11898) | more than 9 years ago | (#12985391)

More cycle-stealing graphical chrome - that was certainly on the very top of my list of features. Far more important than security or availability (be able to add / update software w/o rebooting). Definitely worth the cost of upgrading and buying more RAM / bigger CPU, etc.

None of this really matters (1)

suman28 (558822) | more than 9 years ago | (#12985395)

Most users systems will not be able to handle it and if any corporation deploys this(probably those still on Win 95 or Win 3.1), it will be sure to turn off the all these themes and such. So, the only users that will see and probably use them are the only that don't know translucent from non-translucent anyway.
Yes, I am sure some will buy it for the eye candy, but I am not sure if there are that many people that will just jump up and upgrade, especially with the DRM and all the other junk that will be installed by default.

Lipstick on a pig. (0, Redundant)

dbfruth (707400) | more than 9 years ago | (#12985396)

Instead of actually improving things Microsoft latest OS will be a regurgitation of the same tired crap. Prettier interface, Wizards instead of fixing the underlying usibility issues, And loads of PR telling the masses that this is "The Best Windows Ever" No Thanks Microsoft

finally catching up? (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12985401)

hasn't this been a back-and-forth thing. how long did it take apple to get real multithreading? how long did it take MS to get more than 13 character filenames?

please save us from the fanboyisms.

FINALLY (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12985403)

I can't wait for Windows OS X......

Inside Joke? (1)

TooMuchEspressoGuy (763203) | more than 9 years ago | (#12985406)

"Among the few noted features is that Windows now offers transluscent UI, finally catching up with Apple."

Haha! Get it? "Windows" with a "transluscent" UI?

And just when I thought Windows usage couldn't get any murkier, too...

Not a Troll (3, Insightful)

CleverNickedName (644160) | more than 9 years ago | (#12985407)

I'd like to be the first to say that I have always found Windows to be a fine product for all my home needs.

I'll I'm looking for from a home-OS is for it to be easily compatible with my usual web/mail and games software. Windows has never let me down on that score.


I'm sure there are plenty of MS horror stories, but personally I have yet to experience them.

Re:Not a Troll (1)

Proud like a god (656928) | more than 9 years ago | (#12985511)

Right, but what of the new 'features' are gunna make you upgrade to this must have new version?

In a similar vein, I've always found Mandrake Linux to be a fine product for all my home needs. What I'm looking for from a OS is for it to be secure, easily compatable with my usual web/mail and office work, as well as programming. Linux has never let me down on that score.

Spam zombies. (2, Insightful)

khasim (1285) | more than 9 years ago | (#12985552)

It's really good that you're happy with Windows at home.

And many of the people who have Windows at home and are spam zombies are also fairly happy with Windows. Until it becomes too laggy.

The average Windows user would not care how many viruses/trojans/worms were on his computer as long as it seemed to be performing okay for what he used it for.

Meanwhile, there are bot nets out there with 10,000+ compromised Windows machines on them.

The issue isn't what you are happy with. The issue is whether you are being used as an attack vector by someone else. And the statistics show that those boxes are home Windows users (99%+).

Is There Anyone Actually Looking Forward To This?? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12985410)

I guess there are still a good number of people out there who are of the 'MS is always teh winnah!' mindset who will latch on to anything that gets announced by Redmond.

I like to call them the France Userbase. They see which way the wind is blowing and feel they might as well hurry up and surrender to what they think is the inevitable. In this case whatever MS product is supposedly on its way.

They love to point to IE, and the usual bogus belief that MS has '50 billion in cash', as their universal example of how MS products always come out on top and how we all better just get used to liking them.

For some reason the myriad other marketplace flops for MS like the xbox,bob,and the various other cellphone/settopbox stuff seem to be ignored.

Animated buttons? (1)

naich (781425) | more than 9 years ago | (#12985411)

I feel sick already. I thought the design of XP was nauseating enough with it's jarring, primary colour scheme. Now we've got the buttons jiggling up and down as you try to click on them. Still, it's nice to know they've got their priorities right. Making your UI look like something off Star Trek TNG is more important than boring old mundane things like improving security.

Not the first preview. (1)

gowen (141411) | more than 9 years ago | (#12985416)

I'll say.

Who knows, Longhorn may even contain all the features of Cairo, which was announced in 1991. Of course, it's unlikely that WinFS will be finished, so we may still have to wait.

Bells and Whistles (1)

kahei (466208) | more than 9 years ago | (#12985419)


Major point: Please can that excellent windows icon with the bell and whistle casually draped over it be the new 'Microsoft' icon on /.? Pleeeeaaase?

Minor point: I could have sworn Windows had transparent and non-rectangular windows at least as far back as win2000, which is before OSX -- hey! Who are you guys, and why am I being handcuffed? And what do you mean, 'ideologically incorrect speech'? There's not even any such crime! Put me down! Put me doowwwwnnn...

Why the fuck would you want to catch up to Apple? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12985421)

Their interfaces are inferior, as is the rest of the OS. They try to hide all of the functionality under thick shiny layers of translucent paint and pretty eye candy, even though there are fewer apps with less functionality for the Mac. Ridiculous.

Hefty cost for the eye candy... (1)

lurch84 (889236) | more than 9 years ago | (#12985422)

Ok, so it looks nice. What they don't tell you is that if you want all the fancy translucency, 3D-accelerated-whatevertheheck, you're going to need a video card with at least 256MB and pixel shader 2.0. Otherwise you've got to live with the toned down versions of the UI.

thats not new! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12985424)

translucency in the UI has existed since windows 2000! I dislike microsoft as much as the next guy, but its completely false to say that they are just catching up with apple when transluceny has existed for years in windows.

please see this article [microsoft.com] for more information.

This is a review of build 5048... (4, Interesting)

Jugalator (259273) | more than 9 years ago | (#12985427)

The exact same build we've been able to read about on Slashdot a few months back [slashdot.org] .

Beats me why they suddenly reviewed it super late out of the blue, because it's not really like Slashdot is posting a really old news article either here.

And here I was thinking they were having an early beta 1 review, whose release is due this month.

Reviewing alpha quality software should tell a lot of IT people here about how useful a review like this is. Beta 1 and 2 should be far more interesting in seeing where Longhorn is heading.

Transclucent UI in windows (5, Informative)

Arthur B. (806360) | more than 9 years ago | (#12985430)

wtf... alpha blending has been around natively in windows since W2K. It wasn't used but it was there and many mods allowed context menu to set windows transparency.

o x-composite is still slow like hell...
o e17 will us software blending...

*sigh*

Always good to have our priorities straight.... (1)

JavaSavant (579820) | more than 9 years ago | (#12985436)

Ooohhh - translucent UI! Does it have the little throbber icon at startup too? I really hope they use a horizontal texture in the toolbars as well, and maybe some really cool sounds when I click on stuff - I've been waiting for MS to incorporate "You've Got Mail!" into their OS for years! I'm sure they will have to patch the Translucent UI stuff for years though to make it secure. Early adopters, beware!

Re:Always good to have our priorities straight.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12985471)

I think you missed the fine print. It's not a translucent UI, it's a /transluscent/ UI. I can't wait for the replacement transluscious UI to come.

I can see it now (1)

d3m057h3n35 (695460) | more than 9 years ago | (#12985447)

Sometime next year, a pair of dupes titled "IT: Longhorn Infected in 2 Minutes."

To his credit, CmdrTaco really has mastered the art of unintentional, future ironic article placement on the front page.

Yesterday's news (3, Funny)

krell (896769) | more than 9 years ago | (#12985460)

' Sometime next year, a pair of dupes titled "IT: Longhorn Infected in 2 Minutes." '

Microsoft, as part of its goal of cutting down Slashdot dupes, has decided to ship Longhorn pre-infected. Don't worry about it.

Halo effect (slightly OT) (2, Informative)

5n3ak3rp1mp (305814) | more than 9 years ago | (#12985452)

Good to see that Apple seems to finally be gaining [amazon.com] some marketshare [google.com] , and that Microsoft is resting on its laurels...

Why should I upgrade ... (2, Interesting)

mcn (112855) | more than 9 years ago | (#12985461)

... besides speedier search and better eye candies? If I still continue to file my documents according to my folders and sub-folders and sub-sub-folders, I only search once in a blue moon. What does XP SP2 not have that I needed badly in Longhorn?

And does the eye candies slow the machine down? Or maybe not since Intel and AMD would have spanking new processors by release time (end 2006 or 2007?) and maybe 1GB RAM as minimum for satisfactory performance.

Honestly, now with 512 RAM on a brand new notebook (Pentium M) just bought a month ago running XP SP2, I don't get the snappy feel of the menus. Don't tell me I need to fine-tune it for "max performance" and go back to classic win9x menus.

Longhorn: BIG improvement (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12985462)

Now it only takes 6 minutes to be infected. It's a 50% improvement [slashdot.org] !

I MUST upgrade!

Leopard before Longhorn? (4, Interesting)

G4from128k (686170) | more than 9 years ago | (#12985472)

I wonder if OS 10.5 will arrive before Longhorn? Steve Jobs said that the company plans to release Leopard in late 2006 or early 2007.

Perhaps 2007 will see a 3-"L" competition on x86 -- Longhorn, Leopard, & Linux.

huh? (1)

d34thm0nk3y (653414) | more than 9 years ago | (#12985480)

I get translucent reminders and stuff in XP already. Am I missing something?

Re:huh? (1)

British (51765) | more than 9 years ago | (#12985537)

I get translucent reminders and stuff in XP already. Am I missing something?

No, it's the usual Slashdot snarkyness towards Microsoft in any article. It is obligatory, and in this case they are now "finally catching up with apple" for some trivial eye candy aspect.

In other articles if MS comes out with something, they will be "copying" someone else, or they will be "finally being compatible with.", and so on. Of course, using the word "finally" would imply there's someone out there waiting in their basement holding their breath for this feature.

Content-free (1)

kahei (466208) | more than 9 years ago | (#12985483)



Q: Is Longhorn just vapor and eye-candy with no useful content?

A: Nobody knows, but that 'review' sure fits that description pretty darn well, as reviews of a six-month-old alpha build that focus almost entirely on the way it looks go.

Translucency - nothing new (1)

Zebra_X (13249) | more than 9 years ago | (#12985486)

Has been available in windows since 2000 (perhaps earlier, I don't know). It's just that a lot of windows developers don't take "advantage" of it. It also consumes a lot of cpu to us the transparency in "neat" ways.

translucent!?!?! (1)

cyclomedia (882859) | more than 9 years ago | (#12985500)

FFS they better make it turnoffable it's getting quite difficult to keep my copy of XP from spontaneously deciding to do funky stuff without my permission. i just want to use the bloody thing, if i want flishy flashy pretty 3d zoomey eye candy computing then i'd take lsd first

Still Looks Like a Turd (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12985507)

Sorry, but Apple has the better design sense. Microsoft can't design their way out of a paper bag. After all, their OS is targetted at businesses and the masses. Therefore, according to Marxism, their OS is not art, but craft. Mac OS is targetted at the bourgeoisie. Linux and BSD are the only true OSes of the people!!!!

OK to be fair... (3, Interesting)

narrowhouse (1949) | more than 9 years ago | (#12985518)

I would like to see some version of the virtual folders like those in Evolution in the GNOME and/or KDE desktops. It looks like that may be one handy feature coming up in Longhorn. If we start work now maybe we can beat the Longhorn release date :).

I realize that if I want all my pictures in one folder I could just put them in one folder instead of scattering them all over the machine, but for me it would be nice to have the virtual folders show files from ALL of my machines at once.

So congratulations Microsoft, I have found a feature that I would like. if I still used Windows. I wouldn't upgrade to get it mind you, but I would at least know there was something I couldn't do on XP that I could on Longhorn.

Windows vs. cell phones (2, Interesting)

broothal (186066) | more than 9 years ago | (#12985528)

Ok so I read the review, and we can obviously expect a lot of bells and whistles as well as a fair amount of eye candy. It may or may not be good, but it reminds me of cellular phones (mobile phones). All I want is a stable phone that I can use to make calls. But with all the crap they've put into phones recently, that's actually hard to find. And I feel the same way about windows. All I want is a stable OS that I can use to run my applications in.

(And before someone jumps the gun - I use *nix at home, but I'm forced to use Windows at work)

Bah, humbug! (1)

gunpowda (825571) | more than 9 years ago | (#12985550)

Why bother with a translucent GUI when you can have transparent [flickr.com] ones today?
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