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Doomed: How id Lost Its Crown

CmdrTaco posted about 9 years ago | from the i-just-can't-play-fast-twitch-any-more dept.

First Person Shooters (Games) 491

bonch writes "Steve Bowler, lead animator for Midway Games, has written an article for Next Generation called Doomed: How id Lost Its Crown. He talks about id no longer being the king of the hill in the FPS genre, losing the multiplayer gaming wars to Counter-strike and the engine licensing wars to competitors like Unreal 3.0, and focusing too much on rendering realistic environments at the expense of modern gameplay features. From the article: 'It's hard to stomach having to shoot a zombie in the head the same number of times as in the body (six rounds from a pistol, thanks for asking) to dispatch it, when you can shoot a light fixture and watch how realistically light dances around the room.'"

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491 comments

Dupes: How Slashdot Lost Its Crown (5, Funny)

TripMaster Monkey (862126) | about 9 years ago | (#13036057)


Dupe...original article can be found here. [slashdot.org]

Almost the same title, too.

Re:Dupes: How Slashdot Lost Its Crown (2, Funny)

HTH NE1 (675604) | about 9 years ago | (#13036106)

Just goes to demonstrate that the Taco hand doesn't know what the Zonk hand is doing.

Re:Dupes: How Slashdot Lost Its Crown (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 years ago | (#13036269)

and I was thinking zonk is timmothy's alter - cash earning thru hidden advertisement - ego

How Slashdot Lost Its Crown (1, Funny)

TopShelf (92521) | about 9 years ago | (#13036118)

In a startling development, /. has run today's story just last week [slashdot.org] .

Almost the same title, too.

Am I qualified to be a /. editor now?

Re:Dupes: How Slashdot Lost Its Crown (4, Funny)

ArsonSmith (13997) | about 9 years ago | (#13036149)

I don't consider it a dupe. More like a rerun. Slashdot news at noon, 5pm and 10pm. Maybe again tomorrow and next week too.

Re:Dupes: How Slashdot Lost Its Crown (4, Funny)

sgant (178166) | about 9 years ago | (#13036229)

Haven't you also noticed that it's mainly Taco that does the dupes? Sure, there are others but Taco makes most of them.

It's like he wanders into the computer room in his bathrobe and slippers...shuffling in. Then when no one is looking he'll sit down and look at the story submissions...post the ones he likes...then shuffles out. Not knowing that the ones he's posting are all dupes.

Then Zonk or whoever walks in and slaps his hand and leads him back to his room and ups his medications.

As if the first slashdotting wasn't bad enough... (4, Funny)

artemis67 (93453) | about 9 years ago | (#13036312)

now they get slashdotted on the dupe, too.

Holy cow, that's gotta suck.

Dupe-aroo. (0, Redundant)

HyperChicken (794660) | about 9 years ago | (#13036060)

Re:Dupe-aroo. (1)

Dan667 (564390) | about 9 years ago | (#13036164)

It would have been even better if they titled the story "Dupe 2".

Comment is a dupe! (0, Offtopic)

conner_bw (120497) | about 9 years ago | (#13036183)

This comment is a dupe [slashdot.org] of the one written above it.

Also a dupe! (0, Offtopic)

conner_bw (120497) | about 9 years ago | (#13036211)

This comment is a dupe [slashdot.org] of the one written above it...

DUPE (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 years ago | (#13036061)

DUPE [slashdot.org] , with almost the same title.

Re:DUPE (2, Interesting)

rovingeyes (575063) | about 9 years ago | (#13036210)

I don't get it if its a dupe why is the site still slashdotted? Don't people trust any one anymore?

important (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 years ago | (#13036062)

For an upstart operating system, BeOS hit a lot of marks: It outran Mac OS and Windows on their own hardware, supported modern operating system features before anyone else did, piqued Apple's interest as the replacement for Mac OS, ideologically succeeded the Amiga platform, started a rivalry with embedded operating system QNX, and did all of the above while booting in under thirty seconds.

Such innovation does not always equal success, however, and Be, Inc. was liquidated by late '02, its intellectual property being swallowed up by Palm (and now held by PalmSource, Inc.). The last release of the BeOS was in 2000, and in five years the computer industry has leapt ahead, while Be fans remain in limbo on an increasingly outdated system with no hope for reprisal.

Or is there?

Today there are three efforts to maintain and extend the BeOS experience on modern hardware, each with a different story but all holding the same basic goal: Keeping BeOS alive in a post-Be, Inc. world. And with three very different approaches, each of the BeOS projects is worth taking a look at, if not downloading and installing. Be fans, get ready to restart your engines.

Zeta

German yellowTab's Zeta is based directly on the BeOS 5 source code, as well as source to unreleased updates such as BONE (BeOS Network Environment) and BeOS 6, all inherited directly from Be, Inc. As such, it starts out of the gate with a working product and an easy ride to future updates and patches. Zeta is actually shipping at the moment despite still being in development. So what's to see?

Sadly, not much. Zeta is still doing work to bring BeOS 5 forward to compete with Windows and Mac OS X bringing an operating system back to life after five years is a trying task. For instance, only in recent builds have SSE and HyperThreading been recognized, and both still remain un-optimized for in the operating system. Likewise there is a 2GB RAM limit and no FireWire support.

Zeta should hit a final version this Summer, and while BeOS fans would find this intriguing, there is one huge catch with Zeta: It comes only in German. Until the operating system returns to its roots in English, this son-of-a-BeOS will remain a German attraction only. Efforts to port the interface to English have begun, but aren't reported to be ready until sometime after Zeta 1.0's release.

Haiku

Haiku, once known as OpenBeOS, is an Open Source effort to first recreate BeOS 5 functionality (Haiku R1) and then to extend the experience through updates to the operating system's core functionality (R2 and beyond). Haiku has attracted many developers and fans, mostly desperate BeOS refugees, though numbers mean little Haiku is far from being without problems.

Due to its Open Source development model, the same one the Linux kernel is based on, Haiku progress is slow and plagued with internal political struggles. The project hasn't fully reached beta yet, with most of its components still in alpha or development stages. To put that in perspective, it's taking five years to recreate a five-year old operating system. Haiku, upon completion, will be ten-year old technology.

The project claims that through various community channels many part of the system are already complete. Haiku uses NewOS, a kernel similar to BeOS's created by a former Be, Inc. engineer. There are also Open Source versions of the BeOS interface as well, the project site notes. Without the working middleware, however, the kernel and GUI are useless.

Another bottleneck in the Haiku roadmap is that without hardware partners, the project is relegated to old garage-sale systems. For instance, the main development system is a dual-Pentium Pro system over-clocked to 233 MHz with 512M RAM. That's a ten-fold decrease in power and bandwidth from current Pentium 4 and Pentium M-based systems and another way Haiku will be ten years behind.

Overall, Haiku is an interesting hobbyist project with implications for clean-room implementation and reverse-engineering projects, but is of little use to anyone in the real world, even deprived BeOS zealots hungry for an answer to their operating system woes. It's worth keeping an eye on if you're part of the Be world but otherwise is best left to its own developers and sycophants.

Benix

Perhaps the most ambitious of the post-Be, Inc. BeOS projects, Benix was a project aimed at mating Open Source implementations of Be operating system services to a Linux kernel. Work began in late '02 when it was clear neither Be, Inc. nor Palm, Inc. would ever continue work on a proper desktop BeOS. In the last three years it has attracted a few dozen developers but not much else.

Progress on Benix has all but halted, perhaps due to the profound differences in Be and Linux kernel architectures. Changing Be's services to match a Linux kernel effectively took the wind out of the project, and Benix was left stalled. Today the web site hasn't been updated since December '04 and the CVS remains just as outdated. Reportedly, several Benix developers have joined the Haiku project.

If you're in the BeOS world for the long haul, you have quite a trek ahead of you. None of the above three BeOS replacements are ready for daily work, and only Zeta is near being a replacement for five-year old technology if you know German. BeOS fans might be better off sticking with BeOS 5 and grabbing the last few updates Be released. A sorry state, but probably the stablest bet.

So familiar... (0, Redundant)

funny-jack (741994) | about 9 years ago | (#13036063)

This sounds so familiar... [slashdot.org]

OPEN LETTER TO CMDRTACO (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 years ago | (#13036065)

*_g_o_a_t_s_e_x_*_g_o_a_t_s_e_x_*_g_o_a_t_s_e_x_*_
g_______________________________________________g_ _
o_/_____\_____________\____________/____\_______o_ _
a|_______|_____________\__________|______|______a_ _
t|_______`._____________|_________|_______:_____t_ _
s`________|_____________|________\|_______|_____s_ _
e_\_______|_/_______/__\\\___--___\\_______:____e_ _
x__\______\/____--~~__________~--__|_\_____|____x_ _
*___\______\_-~____________________~-_\____|____*_ _
g____\______\_________.--------.______\|___|____g_ _
o______\_____\______//_________(_(__>__\___|____o_ _
a_______\___.__C____)_________(_(____>__|__/____a_ _
t_______/\_|___C_____)/WHAT'S\_(_____>__|_/_____t_ _
s______/_/\|___C_____)___UP__|__(___>___/__\____s_ _
e_____|___(____C_____)\BITCH?/__//__/_/_____\___e_ _
x_____|____\__|_____\\_________//_(__/_______|__x_ _
*____|_\____\____)___`----___--'_____________|__*_ _
g____|__\______________\_______/____________/_|_g_ _
o___|______________/____|_____|__\____________|_o_ _
a___|_____________|____/_______\__\___________|_a_ _
t___|__________/_/____|_________|__\___________|t_ _
s___|_________/_/______\__/\___/____|__________|s_ _
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*_g_o_a_t_s_e_x_*_g_o_a_t_s_e_x_*_g_o_a_t_s_e_x_*_


Important Stuff: Please try to keep posts on topic. Try to reply to other people's comments instead of starting new threads. Read other people's messages before posting your own to avoid simply duplicating what has already been said. Use a clear subject that describes what your message is about. Offtopic, Inflammatory, Inappropriate, Illegal, or Offensive comments might be moderated. (You can read everything, even moderated posts, by adjusting your threshold on the User Preferences Page) If you want replies to your comments sent to you, consider logging in or creating an account.

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Important Stuff: Please try to keep posts on topic. Try to reply to other people's comments instead of starting new threads. Read other people's messages before posting your own to avoid simply duplicating what has already been said. Use a clear subject that describes what your message is about. Offtopic, Inflammatory, Inappropriate, Illegal, or Offensive comments might be moderated. (You can read everything, even moderated posts, by adjusting your threshold on the User Preferences Page) If you want replies to your comments sent to you, consider logging in or creating an account.

Of course you have to keep shooting (5, Funny)

Approaching.sanity (889047) | about 9 years ago | (#13036069)

Zombies can remain animated independant of if their head is intact or not.

Who writes these things anyway? Honestly folks.

Re:Of course you have to keep shooting (5, Funny)

CDLewis (775622) | about 9 years ago | (#13036157)

> Zombies can remain animated independant of if their head is intact or not.

Indeed, they'll keep coming back almost as often as this story.

Re:Of course you have to keep shooting (3, Informative)

wankledot (712148) | about 9 years ago | (#13036182)

Come on now, everyone learned in Zombie 101 that when you take out the head, the zombie is toast.

Re:Of course you have to keep shooting (1)

Approaching.sanity (889047) | about 9 years ago | (#13036234)

Hollywood has brainwashed you! Zombies will keep coming! If you sever their limbs they will spring forth and crush your throat!

Nothing stems their tide save burning their ashes and soaking them in Holy Water drawn from Jacobs Well. You can find it on Ebay pretty cheap nowadays.

Re:Of course you have to keep shooting (3, Insightful)

SparksMcGee (812424) | about 9 years ago | (#13036370)

But some of the Doom zombies don't even have heads, they just rise headless off the floor. Therefore it stands to reason that the head is a non-critical part of a Doom zombie.

Re:Of course you have to keep shooting (1)

Jim_Callahan (831353) | about 9 years ago | (#13036392)

I seem to remember the only way to stop a zombie in night of the living deat was to break every bone in its body of set it on fire.

Re:Of course you have to keep shooting (5, Funny)

killtherat (177924) | about 9 years ago | (#13036248)

Obviously somebody needs to bone up on their
Zombie Survival Strategy [amazon.com] .

Top 10 Lessons for Surviving a Zombie Attack

1. Organize before they rise!
2. They feel no fear, why should you?
3. Use your head: cut off theirs.
4. Blades don't need reloading.
5. Ideal protection = tight clothes, short hair.
6. Get up the staircase, then destroy it.
7. Get out of the car, get onto the bike.
8. Keep moving, keep low, keep quiet, keep alert!
9. No place is safe, only safer.
10. The zombie may be gone, but the threat lives on.

Know your Zombies (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 years ago | (#13036388)

First you have to determine if it's a Romero zombie or one of the lesser known O'Bannon zombie's. Romero zombies will drop with one bullet to the head but O'Bannon zombie need to be hacked apart. Isn't there a Time/Life book about this?

Light? (4, Funny)

DeathFlame (839265) | about 9 years ago | (#13036077)

Light dancing around the room?

We're talking about doom 3 right?

Light?

Umm.. maybe how nice it looks when you shine your flashlight around the room... unless you have your gun out...

Re:Light? (4, Insightful)

gunpowda (825571) | about 9 years ago | (#13036323)

What annoyed me most was the "No Duct Tape on Mars?" concept. If you're striving for photo-realistic horror, then at least give players the opportunity to be able to see something. Or shoot. Maybe both?

This [glenmurphy.com] is an ingenious mod. Seriously - in my view, the main reason Doom 3 was such a poor game was the fact that you could see *nothing* without the flashlight. Who cares about the super new graphics engine if you're barely given an opportunity to take a look at the environment?

Re:Light? (4, Informative)

afidel (530433) | about 9 years ago | (#13036365)

I think that the guys over at penny arcade got it exactly right with this [penny-arcade.com] cartoon.

Seriously- (5, Insightful)

Ieshan (409693) | about 9 years ago | (#13036083)

One of the real reasons Doom3 never took off is because I needed to buy a new computer to use it. And so did everyone else.

Counterstrike runs on crap hardware, and basically, a crap internet connection. You'll get called a lagger, a newbie, and a lamer, but it will work, and you can play, and have fun.

Gameplay is extremely important, but so too is availability.

Re:Seriously- (0, Troll)

suparjerk (784861) | about 9 years ago | (#13036096)

Don't forget "fagort".

Re:Seriously- (5, Insightful)

AviLazar (741826) | about 9 years ago | (#13036142)

That and you can't see whats going on. I didn't like Doom because I couldn't see crap. And in a space age enviroment, couldn't the guy have a light put on his helmet? Even minors in the days pre-electricity could do this.

The sequence to Doom (someone else said this once).

1. Move around corner
2. Light turns off
3. Loud noise
4. Option - Load Saved Game
5. Wash - Rinse - Repeat.

Re:Seriously- (5, Funny)

TripMaster Monkey (862126) | about 9 years ago | (#13036170)


Even minors in the days pre-electricity could do this.

Yeah...amazing what they let children do back in the pre-electricity days, isn't it?

Spellcheck will not save you. At some point you need to know what the hell you're talking about.

Re:Seriously- (1)

AviLazar (741826) | about 9 years ago | (#13036253)

/. offers spellcheck? Where do I click.

Do you play CS:Source? I know someone on CS: Source who has your name spelled like you do.

Re:Seriously- (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 years ago | (#13036317)

Yo Additionally, you appear to have only used a single space after a period, this made the text hard to read. Please try to be more careful in the future.

To quote Galaxy Quest (1)

quantum bit (225091) | about 9 years ago | (#13036251)

Could they be the miners?

Sure they're like 3 years old.

Miners, not minors!

Re:Seriously- (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 years ago | (#13036198)

Counterstrike runs on crap hardware, and basically, a crap internet connection. You'll get called a lagger, a newbie, and a lamer, but it will work, and you can play, and have fun.

Then it died with Q3 as I had to upgrade to run Q3 and even with a broadband connection Q3 had a shitty "lag" experience.

Lag should feel like lag and you should be able to compensate for it. The game should not make you think that you are continuing to move at the speed you were and then 5 minutes later allow everything to catch up and show that you died 5 rooms back.

FPSs are dead. id used to be an innovator... Now they are just the status quo.

Re:Seriously- (1)

LearnToSpell (694184) | about 9 years ago | (#13036329)

"Never took off?" Doom 3? This is the Doom 3 that debuted at number one on PC, debuted at number one on consoles, became Activision's biggest seller EVER, and basically made a trillion dollars, as expected? That Doom 3?

What the hell does "taking off" mean? Everybody on Earth (and half of those on Mars) bought TWO each?

doop (3, Insightful)

Evro (18923) | about 9 years ago | (#13036085)

Duped story so I'll dupe my comment.

Doom 3 was a great game, imo, however people's complaints about the whole flashlight mechanism were justified, and I can see how it would detract from the entertainment value. Id's goal was to make a scary game, and if you played the game with the swapped-in flashlight as they intended, it was indeed scary. The lighting was better than in any game I'd played at that point and created an unparalleled atmosphere of creepiness.

That being said, the idea that in "the mysterious future" you wouldn't be able to hold both a flashlight and a gun hurt the game's credibility. And going for the cheap scare so many times did tend to get old.

They were also determined to make D3 a single-player game in a field now dominated by multiplayer and massively-multiplayer games. I would have thought that they'd have realized this better than anyone, given that they practically created the market for multiplayer FPS gaming, but they chose to make Doom 3 a single player game, and between that and the whole flashlight deal, many people decided the game was a dud, and thus its fate was sealed.

I still thought it was a great game though!

Re:doop (0, Redundant)

Soul-Burn666 (574119) | about 9 years ago | (#13036254)

This parent post is also a dupe, word-for-word. ^_^

Repost (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 years ago | (#13036087)

Everyday is repost on slashdot.

Not to mention... (0, Redundant)

Ledneh (673693) | about 9 years ago | (#13036088)

--insert obligatory bit about being able to hold a one handed weapon and a flashlight at the same time, or perhaps using duct tape, here--

It's the multiplayer, stupid. (1, Insightful)

FireballX301 (766274) | about 9 years ago | (#13036093)

FPS games that are single-player only never last. The last good multiplayer FPS that id put out was QIII, which was put out over 5 years ago. Doom III's multiplayer was just...bad.

Everyone plays ut2k4, hl2, CS, whatever because it's fun either sneaking around and sniping people, or jumping around flinging rockets. Doom III kinda mixed them, and failed to create a fun multiplayer experience.

I'm still looking forward to Quake 4, however.

The Article Text (ICOS) (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 years ago | (#13036095)


Veteran animator Steve Bowler (pictured) got pretty angry when he bought Doom 3. And he's still a mite agitated...

What was it, 12 years ago, that we first laid eyes on the original, the dark new 3D world that was Doom? Even before that, a select few of us recall with wonder the revival of one of our favorite gaming franchises, in a bold new direction, when Wolfenstein 3D hit the shelves.

For a dozen years Id has been the top dog, the guy to beat, the pater familia to the first-person shooter. It can look back on a legacy of six games, each one an unstoppable sales juggernaut, a technological milestone. You didn't need to know what the review score was for an Id title. You only knew that you needed to buy it.

But one day, the industry changed. The consumer changed. It's hard to put one's finger on it. Maybe it was Counter-Strike. Maybe Unreal Tournament. Something happened to the genre between Quake III and Doom 3, and Id somehow didn't take it into account. Call it braggadocio, or hubris, but Doom 3 is no longer the top dog in the FPS market.

Yes, it's upsetting. I tried not to admit it either. But it's undeniably true.

Some have even argued that Doom 3 is a step backwards in FPS gaming, that even when it hit the shelves we were already years past where it hoped to position itself.

The problem, it seems, lies at the core of where Doom came from, and the hopes we had for Doom 3. It was a tale of gameplay, graphics, and mistakes.

Zombie shuffle

We're all familiar with the helter-skelter breakneck balls-to-the-wall pace that the original Doom set. So where is it in Doom 3? I can appreciate the slow zombie shuffle as much as the next guy, but when Halo's Flood race existed years before Doom's sequel, one has to ask why exactly we're experiencing only one or two imps at a time.

Obviously, there's a reason why we don't have a dozen imps chasing us down a corridor, and I'm inclined to say that it's because of the graphics engine. So much attention has been paid to rendering a realistic environment that there just isn't a lot of room left for that many bad guys. This left the guys at Id with a bit of a conundrum: How could they still make the game tense and as terrifying as the originals?

The answer, evidently, is to have shit jump out of the dark at you.

Yes, I jumped. I was scared. And then I got tired. Tired of having secret panels open behind me after I'd already cleared the room of any possible beasts from hell, only to get clawed in the back. Who knew demons were capable of such stealth and chicanery? Hey, maybe I'll open this door and--surprise!--here's yet another instant 25 hit points removed from my health because an imp was waiting patiently for me to open a door. This isn't gaming. This isn't the Id I know. This is scripted nonsense.

And yet, in the face of such scripted trickery, the A.I. then proceeds to fall flat on its face when given an empty room and a box to hide behind. If it doesn't have a gun, the A.I. just comes straight at you trying to claw your eyes out. If it does have a gun, it hides behind corners and boxes, but since the game lacks a headshot--something which has become so common in FPSs now that it's no longer a boastable feature--it takes an implausible amount of time to dispatch them.

Maybe I'm crazy, but I recall levels in the original Doom where you were downright encouraged to trick the A.I. into fighting itself. Yes, it was a primitive A.I., but I recall being impressed by it. Hell, even the famed Reaperbot for the original Quake is still 10 times more entertaining than fighting drones in Doom 3.

I guess what it all boils down to is the fact that the gameplay is just too simplified for the graphics. It's hard to stomach having to shoot a zombie in the head the same number of times as in the body (six rounds from a pistol, thanks for asking) to dispatch it, when you can shoot a light fixture and watch how realistically light dances around the room.

And don't try justifying it with "well, the zombies obviously aren't powered by brains, because there's some zombies without heads," because you can still kill them by shooting them in the jaw six times. I'm sure they'd also die if I shot them in the foot six times, but honestly, I'm just too bored with the game to even try.

Fight mechanics

The problem here is that you can't justifiably give us Doom 3 fight mechanics (shoot at the sprite till it's taken enough damage to die) and yet put us in a world that's nearly as well rendered as our own reality. I'm willing to pass on the point that we're still missing the run-and-gun feel of the original Doom. I (along with the rest of the gaming community, evidently) just want to see some realistic damage models, and when you have competition like Half-Life2, Far Cry, and the upcoming Unreal Tournament 3, you need to step up your A game and deliver.

It seems that for every iteration of the Doom/Quake series, Carmack and company have managed to set the bar for the industry, both graphically and in Netplay. Yet, after being out now for half a year, it is being surpassed in both. Its online game didn't make even the tiniest ripple in the Internet pond. Ironically, these two items have always set precedent for Id, and Carmack has even been on record in the past as stating, "Who cares about single-player, it's all about the multiplayer." It used to be all about selling the engine, and now even that seems fated to despair as the Unreal 3 engine is winning awards and accolades for its ease of use, and is dominating the press as far as who's using it for their next-gen titles. No one talks about Id's Doom 3 engine, and in years past, it's been the engine to have.

I could go even further and discuss how banal the whole metal + hell aspect of it is. One can only take so much future-goth architecture overflowing with demons. It's sufficiently played out. I've played through every Id title to date, and after 12 years of the same thing packaged in a new box, suddenly, I just don't give a damn about hell anymore.

It's sad, but in the end, Doom 3 will no doubt be forgotten in the annals of first-person shooters. Will Quake IV be able to pull them out of the slump and get them back to their King of the Hill status? Not if Doom 3 was any indication...
Steve Bowler has been working in the videogame industry on and off for the past 10 years, currently working at Midway Games as a lead animator in Chicago. While his main passion is animation, occasionally he spouts opinions about games. Quite often, people disagree with him.

Top dog??? (1)

Radres (776901) | about 9 years ago | (#13036099)

"Doom 3 is no longer the top dog in the FPS market." I never realized it was ever top dog. It came out, I played it, then it went on the shelf. It wasn't really that impressive and it certainly wasn't good enough to be called top dog. My kids watched me play it for about a half hour and that was enough for them. They never felt the desire to play it. Yeah it was pretty and it had some nice eye candy, but what's that got to do with the value and quality of a game? If you don't have the desire to play it more than once then it can't even be considered top-10. I'm lost on the point of this article.

Re:Top dog??? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 years ago | (#13036190)

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Quake3 the last game prior to Doom3 to orignate our of id?

The point of the artcile? (1)

AviLazar (741826) | about 9 years ago | (#13036195)

Doom 1 was the game that made FPS what it is today. Doom 2 was still awesome and one of the best games when it came out. Doom 3 lacked due to - lighting (whats so hard about a flashlight mounted helmet) and no real multi-player.

Hard core gamers tend to finish these games in one-three nights - after that they want to play their friends...People play games like CounterStrike all day long (sometimes on servers dedicated to only one type of board) and do it over and over and over...why? cause multi-player games are more fun then single-player.

The point of this article was to help prove that /. is still king when it comes to dupes

Re:Top dog??? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 years ago | (#13036257)

If you are wondering why i modded you troll, it's because you have copy pasted verbatim a comment from the original story (this is a dupe). http://games.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=155266&c id=13016717/ [slashdot.org]

Re:Top dog??? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 years ago | (#13036288)

So, is it my fault that slashdot sucks and can't avoid postiing dupes?

Re:Top dog??? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 years ago | (#13036272)

> I'm lost on the point of this article.

Yes, you really missed the point. The author made a poor choice of words for that sentence but if you'd bothered paying as much attention to the rest of the article as you did that sentence, you'd see that is not the point. The point is that id's games were as fun to play as they were pleasing to the eye. These days, they've focused way too much on the technology.

For those of us old enough to remember, there was a really long stretch of time where id and 3d realms reigned supreme and we all know what happened to 3d realms right?

really? (4, Funny)

intmainvoid (109559) | about 9 years ago | (#13036100)

It's hard to stomach having to shoot a zombie in the head the same number of times as in the body (six rounds from a pistol, thanks for asking) to dispatch it

And this is based on your real world experience with Zombie's I presume?

Doom 3? (1)

rd4tech (711615) | about 9 years ago | (#13036102)

For a dozen years Id has been the top dog, the guy to beat, the pater familia to the first-person shooter. But one day, the industry changed. The consumer changed. It's hard to put one's finger on it.

Doom 3? Anyone who has played CS at a LAN party can tell him what's changed.

Re:Doom 3? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 years ago | (#13036193)

Anyone who has played CS at a LAN party can tell him what's changed.

Which in turn is based on one of the engines of id. What was your point again ?

I don't recall... (2, Insightful)

Slime-dogg (120473) | about 9 years ago | (#13036105)

Id hasn't really been a player on the FPS game market in a while. Their recent games (Quake 3, Doom 3) have basically been technology demos. They sell well because we nerds think it is cool, but the actual games leave much to be desired.

We know that Id makes its money from licensing its engines to people. Half-life made Id some money. Keep that in mind. I'm not sure if the Source engine takes anything from one of Id's engines.

Re:I don't recall... (1)

garett_spencley (193892) | about 9 years ago | (#13036244)

Quake3 was extremely fun IMO. I got completely addicted to the early tests that ID put out for free... and played it for years. I still play it every once in a while.

But I never even got past the 1st level on Doom3. It just bore me to death... and that was a huge dissapointment considering I had been waiting for it ever since ID announced they were doing a Doom3 .. and I even bought my new computer in anticipation for it.

What's really worth noting is that when we're talking about ID and it's "Crown" .. you have to realize that ID doesn't really have a big foundation to rest on at all. They have a grand total of 3 titles (Wolfenstien, Dooma and Quake) plus their sequels.

ID desperately needs to come out with something completely new. Or if their business model is really just to sell engines then maybe they should start making just cutting edge engines with really good APIs that are extremely easy to use and expand and sell those to other game companies rather than making boring games to showcase them and letting other companies steal the engine market (last I heard the current Unreal engine is the big FPS engine being used rather than Doom3's).

Re:I don't recall... (2, Interesting)

88NoSoup4U88 (721233) | about 9 years ago | (#13036274)

I'm not sure if the Source engine takes anything from one of Id's engines.

Interesting question imo, since Valve been spouting off how they've build the Source Engine themselves, yet, when the alpha-code-leak happened, various people found entries from the Quake-C code inside (either commented out, or still in use) :

I wonder how much of that is still in there and, if it is, if id is getting something out of it.

Headshot! (5, Funny)

October_30th (531777) | about 9 years ago | (#13036107)

'It's hard to stomach having to shoot a zombie in the head the same number of times as in the body (six rounds from a pistol, thanks for asking) to dispatch it

Now that's something I've never understood in the movies or in the games. I mean, if you're a zombie, you don't have a brain. Period. It's all mush and all you want to do is to eat the brain of someone else for some obscure reason (protein content, perhaps?). So, why would a headshot be more effective against a zombie than a bodyshot? It just doesn't make any sense. If I were facing a zombie and I had a shotgun, I'd just shoot his bloody legs off and run away bravely.

Re:Headshot! (1)

HTH NE1 (675604) | about 9 years ago | (#13036158)

all you want to do is to eat the brain of someone else for some obscure reason (protein content, perhaps?).

It makes the constant pain of being dead go away.

Re:Headshot! (5, Funny)

zenneth (767572) | about 9 years ago | (#13036216)

If I were facing a zombie and I had a shotgun, I'd just shoot his bloody legs off and run away bravely.

Sir Robin?

Re:Headshot! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 years ago | (#13036223)

No, they do have a brain, but it's dead. Zombies are infected with a virus that spreads easily among the newly dead. If you destroy the brain, you kill the zombie. Shooting the legs off doesn't (or shouldn't) kill it.

They eat the brains of the living because it eases the pain of being dead.

I kind of wonder if medical marijuana wouldn't do the same thing. ; )

Re:Headshot! (1)

TedTschopp (244839) | about 9 years ago | (#13036240)

From the article...

"And don't try justifying it with "well, the zombies obviously aren't powered by brains, because there's some zombies without heads," because you can still kill them by shooting them in the jaw six times. I'm sure they'd also die if I shot them in the foot six times, but honestly, I'm just too bored with the game to even try."

Re:Headshot! (3, Interesting)

Turn-X Alphonse (789240) | about 9 years ago | (#13036354)

aww the common misconception. Most zombies (obviously each persons vision is different but still), have very basic brain functions. These are "Must feed" and "Must survive". Now you put the two together and you get a rabid dog in human form.

So if you disable the brain it can no longer send signals to the main body or even "think" basicly. So a bullet to the brain disables their basic thought and movement in 1.

Secondly, brains is the "common" thing, but if you notice they just want to eat flesh. Most humans naturally consider flesh the "best" food source (meat and 2 veg, shows this perfectly). So they go after flesh, human or other wise (Most zombie films will show you dead animals being eaten or at least being attacked).

Of course each "universe" will have it's own way of making zombies and it's own rules, but the basic lay out if above.

Re:Headshot! (1)

Holi (250190) | about 9 years ago | (#13036400)

How is this informative. First in only ONE movie were zombies wanting to eat brains and that movie was a spoof of the Romero films (it was Return of the Living Dead) mostly they want to eat whatever part of you is closest. In most Zombie movies (Lets disregard the Return of the Living Dead movies as they were never meant to be horror flicks) a head shot is what is required to kill a zombie, just one to the head will stop it, Taking out it's legs just means it's gonna be crawling after you. Hmmm... run away bravely, I didn't know you could do that.

Silly (3, Funny)

RickPartin (892479) | about 9 years ago | (#13036112)

It's hard to stomach having to shoot a zombie in the head the same number of times as in the body (six rounds from a pistol, thanks for asking) to dispatch it, when you can shoot a light fixture and watch how realistically light dances around the room.

You are forgetting about the BLOOD SUCKING LIGHTBULB MONSTERS!

Doom 3 (-1, Flamebait)

MyLongNickName (822545) | about 9 years ago | (#13036115)

Doom III was a very dark game, not something the bright people in Capitalist America would find entertaining.

Re:Doom 3 (1)

MyLongNickName (822545) | about 9 years ago | (#13036145)

Or perhaps there really IS more to a game than just how good it looks.

.
.
.
.
(you too can be part of history, and help reconstruct the entire first thread under the original story)

Re:Doom 3 (1)

jacen_sunstrider (797955) | about 9 years ago | (#13036177)

HA! I caught you! View Original Comment [slashdot.org]

I mean, really, the editors don't dupe on purpose, so why dupe a comment on purpose?

Re:Doom 3 (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 years ago | (#13036180)

Even when using the flashlight I couldn't see what was going on half the time.

Re:Doom 3 (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 years ago | (#13036209)

Doom III was a very dark game

lol flashlight joke

duped from games anyone? (0, Redundant)

shoptroll (544006) | about 9 years ago | (#13036127)

from the duped-from-our-own-department department...

Slashdotted Already (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 years ago | (#13036129)

I guess the site is doomed for now.

You keep using that word, "Demon..." (1)

DrunkenTerror (561616) | about 9 years ago | (#13036130)

FTA:"Who knew demons were capable of such stealth and chicanery?"
I did. I don't think the author has much experience with real demons. Wouldn't one expect a little stealth and chicanery from an extra-dimensional being? I mean, the fangs and claws are just the parts of it that happen to land in the easily-perceptible parts of the EM spectrum. Demons fuck with you. It's what they are. Extradimensional beings that fuck with us.

I wonder what could cause a person to suddenly flip out for no reason and kill a bunch of people they have loved their entire life.

body shot (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 years ago | (#13036144)

headshots are the worst thing ever to happen to multiplayer gaming.

Dupes: How Slashdot became Irrelevant (-1, Flamebait)

ravenspear (756059) | about 9 years ago | (#13036150)

"CmdrTaco, lead editor for Slashdot.org, has posted a duplicate article from Next Generation called Doomed: How id Lost Its Crown. In doing so he shows how Slashdot is no longer the king of the hill in the tech news genre, losing the online geek wars to other sites such as Fark and K5 and the comment posting wars to trolls like Anonymous Coward, and focusing too much on posting repeated stories at the expense of original content features. From the article: 'It's hard to stomach having to read a story on the site the same number of times you see it on all other sites combined (six times is the record I believe, thanks for asking) when you can visit any other tech site and watch how comparatively good the relevant news reporting is.'"

Cool.. I'll dupe some old comments then... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 years ago | (#13036155)

"Doom 3 is no longer the top dog in the FPS market."

I never realized it was ever top dog. It came out, I played it, then it went on the shelf. It wasn't really that impressive and it certainly wasn't good enough to be called top dog. My kids watched me play it for about a half hour and that was enough for them. They never felt the desire to play it. Yeah it was pretty and it had some nice eye candy, but what's that got to do with the value and quality of a game? If you don't have the desire to play it more than once then it can't even be considered top-10.

I'm lost on the point of this article.

Unpopped kernel of corn (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 years ago | (#13036160)

That's how I lost mine. They'll shovel anything into a bag of microwave popcorn these days.

At least it takes more than one round in torso... (1)

netcrusher88 (743318) | about 9 years ago | (#13036162)

It seems somewhat better than, say, Delta Force (Novalogic), where you can kill with one round to the foot from a .45, anyway.

He's right you know (1)

Willeh (768540) | about 9 years ago | (#13036172)

While the game looks incredible, id's not hiding the fact that they're just selling you a glorified SDK anymore. It looks nice though. And it has zombies. yeah. zombies. think about it.

My DOOM3 would have been... (1)

defkkon (712076) | about 9 years ago | (#13036178)

What I was hoping from DOOM 3 was the graphics and physics they delivered, but the gameplay style of a reaction-based shoot-em-up like Serious Sam.

If any of you miss the fast-paced action of the original DOOM games, give Serious Sam a try. It was exactly what I was looking for. The graphics aren't up to DOOM 3 standards (although they're damned good!), but the gameplay is more what I was hoping for.

realism? (1)

SolusSD (680489) | about 9 years ago | (#13036191)

Its hard to stomach how unrealistically the environment acts to shooting a light when you can shoot a zombie in the head and have a more devestating effect than just shooting him in the arm.

The problem I have with Doom 3 (3, Insightful)

Sycraft-fu (314770) | about 9 years ago | (#13036197)

Is that the engine only seems to be able to do dark well. Something always seemed wrong when I played the game, it seemed too dark. Yes, I know it's supposed to be dark, but something was off. I couldn't put my finger on it, but later someone pointed it out to me: The game doesn't have any kind of radiosity.

Radiosity is the property of multiple light reflections. When a light shines on a surface it reflects, of course. However that light can then further reflect off another surface and so on. That's what leads to soft shadows, and is the reason why when you turn on a flashlight, the whole room is slightly illuminated, not just what oyu are pointing at.

Doom 3 doesn't do this, a light hits a surface and will reflect to the screen, but there's no multple levels of reflections. The net effect is hard shadows, corners that are always dark. You can't get a good brightly lit scene.

Now I don't fault them on this, doing radiosity in realtime isn't feasable at this point on most cards. However other games can deal with this, the don't do all their lighting in realtime. Some is done in realtime, some is a precomputed light map. That allows for a global illumination, but one that doesn't have to happen in realtime.

That is my big problem with the engine. Sure it's more accurate than the UT2004 engine, technicly speaking, but it doesn't look as good. UT is "faking" the lighting and shadows, but they look good, and you can have a nice brightly lit outdoor map, or a dark indoor map, and they both work. You can have a light source that casts light on to all surfaces, even those it doesn't directly hit, since it's calculated before hand.

Personally, I'd rather have a game engine that looks good rather than one that is more accurate.

Unfun (1)

EXTomar (78739) | about 9 years ago | (#13036202)

My general complaint about Doom 3 is that although one of the most breath taking pieces of technology available, it is an entirely unfun game. If a game is unfun what is the point of playing it?

Doom 3 suffers from many of the problems stated in the article as well as too many other games are trying to follow suit. It is not fun to be constantly assulted by strange noises. It is not fun to die to things you can't see. It is not fun to die when when the player does nothing wrong. Players like to rise to a challenge but when a game so ludicras that you can count on being attacked from behind after you enter a room that you open the door and walk in backwards that just shows how idiotic the design turned out to be.

I think id got too enamored by making the best looking game possible which they did in spades. They forgot to make the game fun. I shouldn't be too surprised though...game producers fell for the same trap Hollywood movie producers has for years now. Hollywood and the game industry know they can make some of the best SFX with the tools and talent available. The problem is they both seemed to have forgotten the story along the way.

Another whiny... (5, Interesting)

c0l0 (826165) | about 9 years ago | (#13036219)

...and irrelevant rant about Doom 3. It's clearly not everyone's taste, but the hell, I really enjoyed playing id's final version of what the original Doom was meant to be, but could not become, due to technological drawbacks back in time. So this guy, while providing you mit wrong "facts" about "no headhsot in teh g4me 'n stuff dud3!12" (in fact, the Doom 3 engine FOR THE FIRST TIME EVER featured collision-detection based on the actualy polygonal structure of objects, NOT just el-cheapo-hitboxes, and definately recognizes different body-zones of its models!) basically just spills biased mud in the company's face that will get Enemy Territory: Quake Wars as well as the sequel to Quake 2 delivered soon, constantly innovates the industry in the field of real-time 3D-graphics, and sold its latest and greatest groundbreaking engine to be incorporated into some of the most eagerly awaited games in the genre.

Yeah, I see clearly now, id is doomed.

Re:Another whiny... (1)

Foolomon (855512) | about 9 years ago | (#13036362)

id is indeed doomed because Carmack is going to die in a freak space plane mishap.

In all seriousness - I can't believe I get to use this example twice in one day - the Microchannel Architecture that IBM touted was orders of magnitude better than the existing ISA architecture (BetaMax vs. VHS, etc. drek etc.) but still lost to ISA because IBM made it too expensive to license the architecture, meaning that card manufacturers doubled the prices, meaning that no one wanted to use it for cost reasons.

If id is making games that require people to spend $500-$1000 or more on new hardware or complete systems just to play the game then they are doomed. GGs to Carmack and crew though for some great technology. Now, pass me my HL2 CD, thanks.

You know.... (5, Interesting)

suparjerk (784861) | about 9 years ago | (#13036230)

Even though the gameplay itself for D3 was far below what it should have been, I have to say I must give them credit for being able to create such a powerful and frightening environment as they did. D3 was the first game I've played since the Marine campaign of AvP that actually made me scream, jump out of my chair, and have to leave the room. (Yes, I'm a sissy.)

Everyone craps on D3 so much, and it bugs me. Yes, gameplay is probably the most important quality in a video game, and I admit it was severely lacking in D3. But dammit, they really really excelled in other areas and did a few things other video games just don't do. They do deserve some credit.

The next gen of good FPS's will be like Morrowind (5, Insightful)

Travoltus (110240) | about 9 years ago | (#13036231)

Morrowind, of course, was an RPG, but it wouldn't be impossible to remake Doom 3 or UT2004 to look and act like it.

The thing is, non linear games where your actions determine your standing in the game, as well as its path and outcome, are the wave of the future. Especially games with thousands of mini adventures on the side. Also, in Morrowind you interacted with practically *everything*.

If Morrowind were not done years ago and were done today through the Doom 3 *or* Unreal 2 Engine (either of which would imply far fewer bugs than Bethesda's own "engine"), it would eclipse all other games in popularity for 2 years. I say that because Morrowind appears to be almost the single player's equivalent of Starcraft in popularity and longevity.

The lesson: forget the graphics arms race, achieve Doom 3 or UT2004 level graphics and leave it at that, and concentrate on a deep, complex, non linear, "easy to get into it quick" story lines, and endless paths of quest resolution. Give FPS players a world to explore, tweak the outcomes, and generally have fun in.

ID somehow appears to be furthest behind in pursuing this goal, even though Doom 3 is no more linear than HL2 or Unreal 2.

YOU know WHAT@ (0, Offtopic)

TheRealMindChild (743925) | about 9 years ago | (#13036236)

Ill TELL you how iD lost it's crown. One dark night when the moon was purple and the grass was shiny, iD decided to go bar hopping after work, but rather then visit the lavish establishments surrounding the workplace, he decided to meet some new people, and walked to the more shady side of the tracks. Passing many of the local, dirty, cross-dressing prositutes junkies, he wanders into a joint called "The Bitch Slapper". He sits down, orders a brew, and takes a swig, starting to realize that all eyes were upon him. This didn't bother iD initially, that is, until an obese, hairy fellow, who smelled of urinal cakes, sat at the stool beside him and started staring. Trying to ignore the stanky fellow, iD orders a shot of Crowne Royal. Meanwhile, Mr Gorilla kept inching closer and closer to iD until finally something had to be said... "YOU GOT A PROBLEM, FELLA?". "Your mouth am purty" replied the sasquatch. Knowing where this situation may eventually lead, iD got up and started beating the living bejesus out of the hygenically impaired patron. Not paying attention to his surroundings, as the final blow was coming down, iD smacks his undrank shot glass clear across the bar, having it shatter into pieces just inches in front of the bartender.

When the turbulance of the former situation subsided, iD found himself without his drink... without his Crowne.

The End

Dupe... (0, Redundant)

aldragon (782143) | about 9 years ago | (#13036245)

I'll probably get modded redundent for this, but seriously, don't the editors read /. themselves! They should really at least put stuff about an artical they're about to make in the little search area and that would at least stop some duping. I'm begining to think I should start marking editors as foes every time they make a dupe, only I'm not that bored.

Another Dupe (0, Redundant)

MissingIntellect (583853) | about 9 years ago | (#13036266)

Another of many duplicates that seem to have been posted in recent weeks...

An aspect not commented on before... (2, Interesting)

SuperKendall (25149) | about 9 years ago | (#13036280)

I read the other Slashdot thread. But one thing I found missing there (and in the article itself was) - how did ID really loose the crown of engine linsencing? As the article noted the Unreal3 engine is all over the press, but you see no sign of other companies moving to use the Doom3 engine for other products.

Is the Doom3 really not as capabile of expansive environments, really not as easy to program? How did ID let that slide by?

How they lost their crown (3, Funny)

AtariAmarok (451306) | about 9 years ago | (#13036290)

"And while id was looking down.
Unreal stole its gaming crown..."

id's main problem (0, Redundant)

JeiFuRi (888436) | about 9 years ago | (#13036299)

id's problem has always been that they were a one-trick pony...i.e., graphics. John Carmack took what was at the time a largely theoretical specification, (BSP) first built two genre-defining games out of it, (Doom and Doom 2) and then went on to display an increasing level of technical mastery with it by adding full three-dimensionality. (Quake) As far as pure graphics are concerned, the man is without peer...he occupies a place fairly close to Einstein in my own head. (And he's a Texan, no less! ;-))

However, problems eventually arose from the fact that graphics alone are not what make a truly engaging FPS. It might have been the first engine to utilise OpenGL, but from a *gameplay* perspective Quake 2 especially was complete crap in my book. The situation got markedly worse with Quake 3 as well, from the point of view that the base engine was the only part of it which id actually produced themselves. Everything else (the AI, the cutscenes) had to be outsourced. Q3's credits list is very long...and id's own staff do not occupy a very large part of it.

Q1 was id's finest hour in my mind...I still don't think I've ever had a more immersive or atmospheric multiplayer experience since then. (and I've played my share of Q3 and UT 2003 online) I realise however that such is a completely subjective statement...but I've long tended to believe that the development of any technology follows a bell pattern, where it hits a peak of development/refinement, and then actually starts to come back down somewhat. (I don't include visual photo-realism as a criteria here either; quite the opposite, actually) For me, (purely in terms of multiplayer) the original Quake was the proverbial summit of the mountain.

The release of Unreal and Unreal Tournament certainly didn't help matters for id though, either...because not only were they beautiful graphically, (the original UT is still a completely acceptable visual experience in my book) but they also included all sorts of innovations where AI and gameplay were concerned...not to mention an extremely discoverable and user-friendly editor, which made it easy for any net-dwelling 14 year old to create their own scenarios as well. Epic might have been ardent worshippers of id, but they were probably more responsible for their idols' demise than any other single factor from what I saw.

So, yeah...that to me is the main issue. Carmack is/was a graphical genius...but they were only able to get away with graphics alone for maybe three releases. (Doom/2, Quake) These days, graphics alone aren't what sell a game...You need good level design, decent AI, and people generally like a strong storyline with a high immersion factor as well.

id were the first, and they will always have that distinction...but they were not able to reinvent themselves...and the world has moved on.

Queue Deluge... (1)

Shadows (121287) | about 9 years ago | (#13036303)

... of sarcastic, obnoxious comments equating CmdrTaco with a zombie for posting a dupe.

Seriously, though, Id lost it's crown the moment Doom 3 started to be more about hyped graphics than superb gameplay (enhanced by good graphics). I played the entire game without feeling the need to get the ducktape mod, and thought it was a decent experience (there are definitely a few well scripted sequences that'll make you jump, as Bowler notes, but the cooler parts for me were in general creep-out factor -- that disembodied voice asking for help for example) but nothing remarkable. Sure, the graphics were great for an indoor game, but as everyone and their mother knows, graphics are only a tiny part of a good game.

What did you expect? (5, Interesting)

Ya Bolshoi! (776966) | about 9 years ago | (#13036307)

Why are we all of a sudden complaining about the gameplay in an id game? That's like saying that there's little characterization in George Romero film: no shit.

Carmack et al are on record as saying that games don't need story. Romero (that other one) was booted out of id after he tried to get them to focus on gameplay and design, not just graphics. Admittedly he failed spectacularly, but from that point one id was a one trick pony. They make pretty looking games where you kill zombies/cyborgs and collect keycards.

Is this behind the times in terms of gameplay? Sure. Imo, Deus Ex and System Shock 2 both beat the pants off DOOM3 (and Painkiller and Max Payne) in terms of gameplay and design. And they're more than five years old!

Frankly, DOOM was only "revolutionary" because it was the first game that really nailed how to do graphics good enough to make an FPS game work. Expecting fabulous gameplay out of id is like expecting a Terminator movie to bring you to tears.

DOOM3 is about shooting things. Period. Don't like it, okay, I can relate, but don't try to act as if this is a surprise.

Different != Better (1)

strAtEdgE (151030) | about 9 years ago | (#13036348)

Where did all these people come from the last few years, who think that just because you can make gameplay more realistic, that you should?

I choose Doom 3 gameplay over Half-Life 2 or Unreal whatever-version-it-is-this-month any day. Some of us actually enjoy adrenaline being released into our systems while we play computer games. I've pretty much completely stopped playing FPS games these days because they're all so high on realism and short on fun that they put me to sleep. The slow, campy gameplay of Counter Strike and the random trajectory of the bullets makes me want to drop my giant CRT monitor on you, which I keep because of it's lack of motion blur at the speeds at which I like my gameplay to flow. That is, really god damned fast.

Kudos to id software for choosing to make better games as opposed to pandering to the newbie masses, like the author of the article. That's what makes them the reigning kings of FPS games.

Monsters fighting (1)

Dethboy (136650) | about 9 years ago | (#13036349)

I enjoyed the latest Doom. I do think though they could notch the engine back just a bit and increase characters. Serious Sam does it...

And I am really PO that the monsters don't fight each other. That was the best part of the old id series...

d3 sucks because creators grew up (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 years ago | (#13036380)

I remember when my gf brought home the shareware demo of Doom. I was blown away and played it until I finished it at the end of the weekend.

But I grew up and married, started a career, bought a house, etc. and I don't play games anymore. i haven't upgraded my desktop in years. How could the original id team be much different? If you don't play something compulsively as its creator then you are probably not going to have compulsive fans.

Hell, the id dude started a rocket company, right? Games are just an intellectual exercise in engine design for him now and a source of licensing revenue.

Ahh. gelously is fun. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 years ago | (#13036389)

But not good enough.

GG~

Mmm, yummy! (1)

PlancksCnst (877593) | about 9 years ago | (#13036396)

Dupealicious! :-
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"ecode" can be used for code snippets, for example:

<ecode>    while(1) { do_something(); } </ecode>
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