Welcome to the Slashdot Beta site -- learn more here. Use the link in the footer or click here to return to the Classic version of Slashdot.

Thank you!

Before you choose to head back to the Classic look of the site, we'd appreciate it if you share your thoughts on the Beta; your feedback is what drives our ongoing development.

Beta is different and we value you taking the time to try it out. Please take a look at the changes we've made in Beta and  learn more about it. Thanks for reading, and for making the site better!

Apple Releases OS X 10.4.2 Update

timothy posted more than 9 years ago | from the here's-more-appley-stuff dept.

OS X 182

kenthorvath was one of many readers to note that "Apple has quietly released an update for OS X Tiger. New features include a widget manager for dashboard and some 200 bug fixes and enhancements."

Sorry! There are no comments related to the filter you selected.

KP'ed when I restarted (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#13049845)

Kind of freaky.

Seems okay now, though.

It's about time (0)

d'oh89 (859382) | more than 9 years ago | (#13049851)

Now I can finally use H.261 to iChat with my friends. Joy!

no zlib patch (4, Informative)

inio (26835) | more than 9 years ago | (#13049858)

Incase anyone's wondering, this update doesn't seem to include a patch to zlib to fix the buffer overflow in it.

need to fix spolight too (5, Informative)

goombah99 (560566) | more than 9 years ago | (#13050098)

While I love being able to text search in content, spotlight is so horribly beta I'm almost at the point of disabling it. The thing keeping me from that is that I'd lose my mail search.

The problems with spolight are well known now but I'll recite them:

1) doesn't let you finish typing before it searches. Yeah that was supposed to be a feature, but apparently it wont halt and discard the first search as you try to type. If you are a slow typist and qimply type the letter followed by a pause before typing "uicktime", for example, you have to wait while it finds every document witha Q in it. You cant stop it. No hacker has yet reporeted finding where they store the default time delay so you can adjust it.

2) When you sort by date you can only sort by last access date not creation date. Worse yet, if you click on one of the items on the spotlight list (to get info on it) spotlight "touches" the document and poof it has todays date as its last viewed date. So that's totally useless and even dangerous if you are relying on it to figure out the most recent version of something you were using.

3) in the same vein, over time spotlight seems to touch all the resource or meta data forks creation dates. Or maybe not, I'm not sure. but the net effect is if you try to rsync it to another drive on a unix computer (using apple_double ) to preseve the meta data it ends up detecting that EVERY file has changed and recopies it, totally defeating the point of rsync.

4) you are supposed to be able to disable it from indexing a disk by using the "mdutil -i off "command. This only works some of the time. For example I had a two partition disk and while spotlight indexing is turned off on both, it still indexes one of them but not the other. (yes I deleted the old index). If you declare something Private it does not actually delete the index but simply does not report results for that folder. This is useless for stopping indexing on removable disks.

5) if you plug in a USB thumb driver it may decide to index it even if your just copying files off of it.

6) it's buggy. Often in Mail it fails to find content you know is present. Dont know if thats Mail, Spotlight or the API thats gummed.

7) It's insanely slow on a 1.2 GHZ powerboog or 800 Mhz G4 imac. Oddly it seems somewhat closer to reasonable on a G5

8) there's no simple way to have it default to find by name. in the finder to find by name you have to do the following steps. press command-F, pull down the find-by-kind and change it to find by name, then enter the name in the test field. Dont type slowly or it finds everthing with the first letter you type while you wait for five minutes. You can try to change the default from find-by-kind to find-by-name but most (but not all!) users find this change is not sticky and it reverts to find_by-kind. (and who would want find-by-kind to be the default!)

9) find by name is insanley slow compared to say "locate" in unix. it's not a lot faster than "find" in unix. Apparently they must not have indexed their DB on the name. what were they thinking?

Mod Up PARENT (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#13050144)

Freakin' Amen. Spotlight is beta borked out the wazoo. it's user interface is missing obvious features the old find command had, like showing you the path to the file. (the finder's version of spotlight does but not the main spotlight widow). Duh!

Re:Mod Up PARENT (1)

mr100percent (57156) | more than 9 years ago | (#13050921)

Command-double click the file, it will open the enclosing folder.

Re:need to fix spolight too (3, Informative)

jeffehobbs (419930) | more than 9 years ago | (#13050200)

Amen to this:

doesn't let you finish typing before it searches.

That is annoying. And let me also add that, conversely, Dashboard would be far more efficient and useful if it updated itself before I press the damn Dashboard hotkey. As it is, the way Dashboard works now:

1) Hit the Dashboard hotkey.
2) Wait for all the various pieces of info to come in via the network. Keep waiting. Isn't this convenient?
3) See the info you want(ed), in roughly the same time it would have taken you to open up Safari and click a bookmark.

But the way Dashboard should work, in my opinion:

1) Dashboard gets that info for you in the background. (Dashboard occasionally updates that info, too).
2) Hitting the Dashboard hotkey shows the info you want, so you can read it in a split-second, and get on with your life.


Re:need to fix spolight too (1)

King Babar (19862) | more than 9 years ago | (#13050255)

doesn't let you finish typing before it searches.
That is annoying.

Oddly enough, this doesn't bother me at all. It might be that I'm using a faster Mac (or have a smaller hard disk to search.) You are, however, absolutely right about Dashboard widgets. Even if you don't want this to be default behavior (to reload a bunch of stuff), refreshing in the background should definitely be an option.

Some widgets I use a ton (e.g., Wikipedia) don't really have a problem like this, but most of the real weather ones sure do.

Re:need to fix spolight too (2, Informative)

GaryPatterson (852699) | more than 9 years ago | (#13050465)

If Dashboard were to do that, you'd see occasional drops in system speed. These would vary from barely noticable to "what happened to my system"

When you activate it, all the processes page into memory (if they're not already there) and run their little JavaScripts. That means that there's a lot of memory/disk swapping going on, plus the network activity inherent in grabbing this sort of data.

If you're doing some intensive processing, that may cause disk thrashing as you're paging Dashboard widgets in while the app you're using gets paged out but then it grabs the CPU for a slice, requiring data to be paged back in, and so on...

I also see a brief wait before I get the data (and I'm on an iBook 1.2GHz and 1500kbps ADSL) but I prefer that to the sort of issues I'd see if I were playing a game. A solution is to activate the Dashboard for an instant, drop back into whatever you were doing, and then come back to it a few moments later. It's usually fine and everything's updated.

Re:need to fix spolight too (1)

Bastian (66383) | more than 9 years ago | (#13051023)

Why not have Dashboard run during idle time, like so many other apps?

To me, it seems that Apple has developed a fetish for having things happen EXACTLY when I don't want them to. I still have no honkin' clue why I have to wait for the 3 external FireWire hard drives I have attatched to my computer to spin up (one by one, not all at once!) before the computer will eject my USB key, display an open or save panel, etc.

Granted, I haven't bought Tiger yet, maybe that particular asininity has been fixed.

Re:need to fix spolight too (3, Interesting)

venicebeach (702856) | more than 9 years ago | (#13051215)

It's actually up to the widget to turn off (or not) when Dashboard is hidden. Apple recommends that "when Dashboard is hidden, your widget should not consume any CPU time or network resources", but you can write the widgets to keep running in the background if you wish. Widgets are able to tell if the Dashboard is active or not, but the Dashboard never really quits; like the Dock, it's running even when hidden.

See the Dashboard Programming Guide [] .

Re:need to fix spolight too (2, Informative)

mr100percent (57156) | more than 9 years ago | (#13050866)

I believe the Now Playing (Tivo) widget updates in the background depending on how many minutes you set it before you update, or you can have it update only when you call Dashboard.

Yes, that wait for all the other widgets is really annoying. Can't they set it to a high nice and then have them update?

Re:need to fix spolight too (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#13050903)

These are my two biggest gripes with Mac 10.4 as well. They are intensely annoying issues.

Spotlight absolutely begins searching too quickly. For example, if I attempt to search for "new england", Spotfright begins searching for "n", then "ne", then "new", etc. This causes it to hang ('spinning beachball of death' OR spinning gear), which leads me to abandon my Spotlight query and return to my work. Several seconds later, Spotlight, which had continued its worthless search of all the "ne" files on my seystem, flashes a brief menu (no results) and then abrubtly vanishes before I have a chance to get my cursor anywhere near it!

In another example, I attempt to type "apparatus" into the Spotlight query box. Typing as fast I as I can, at my best I get all the way to "appa" before the damn gear starts spinning and the whole menu locks up, including the query box, not allowing me to type any more letters. And no results are produced!

Why can't Apple allow me just a mere 3 more miliseconds to finish typing my query so I'm not forced to (presumably) sort through other "appa" trash (like Zappa MP3s)? And why is a cheap little search box LOCKING UP on a G5 RAID machine with 2.5 GB of RAM??? dear God, what is going on?


* somtimes I click on Spotlight and its little magnifying glass icon just turns blue and locks up, without producing a menu.

* while Spotlight is locked up screenshots are disabled

* Splotlight doesn't seem to produce complete results.

* Spotlight results never seem to include the file I am actually looking for

And you're absolutely right about Dashboard. How can such whimsy litle applets so damn slow? It's quite ridiculous! miserably ineffective.

Re:need to fix spolight too (4, Informative)

drdink (77) | more than 9 years ago | (#13050304)

Have you reported these issues to Bugreporter [] ? Even if you think somebody else did, the duplicate count will make it more obvious that people are annoyed by these things.

Re:need to fix spolight too (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#13050468)

Yep I did. But thanks for asking.

Re:need to fix spolight too (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#13050978)

More evidence that Apple "gets" the Open Source Development philosophy -- fire the QA department and offload the work to the end users.

Re:need to fix spolight too (1)

Psychic Burrito (611532) | more than 9 years ago | (#13051378)

I don't feel the bugreporter is the right way to go: Currently, ADC Membership is required, limiting its appeal to developers (even if it's free). Additionaly, everybody that hates a bug has to enter it again, because the bug lands in a black hole, massively undercutting user efficiency. It would be much better if Apple listed every incoming bug and would let users vote on them. But no, tiny Apple is afraid of its own bugs and won't share with the world :-(

Re:need to fix spolight too (2, Interesting)

GaryPatterson (852699) | more than 9 years ago | (#13050479)

I don't want to sound like Trolly McTrollpants, but I just don't see the Spotlight speed problems.

I've got an iBook 1.2GHz, standard 60GB drive and 784MB RAM, and it's always been fast and responsive for me. My system has about 300,000 files on it, which seems like a reasonable number.

I keep hearing isolated stories like this and wondering if it's more universal or just scattered anecdotes.

Re:need to fix spolight too (1)

goombah99 (560566) | more than 9 years ago | (#13050498)

Well I've heard of people it works well for and am wondering if those are isolated incidents or just scattered anecdotes. :-) I have three data points: 1) 800Mhz Imac G4 2) 1.2 Ghz powerbook G4 3) dual 800 Mhz G4 on all of them its painfully slow. All of these have outboard 200+gig firewire drives.

Re:need to fix spolight too (2, Insightful)

GaryPatterson (852699) | more than 9 years ago | (#13050528)

Sounds like a common thread in your case - external drives. I haven't used SpotLight when my external 80GB drive has been connected (and wouldn't expect much difference then - it's full of large media files)

Well, good luck with it. There's not much else I can do but hope Apple improve performance on it.

Re:need to fix spolight too (3, Insightful)

MagerValp (246718) | more than 9 years ago | (#13051186)

Nope, I have the exact same problem here, and no external drives. If I (try to) search for "quicktime" it'll start chugging after "qu", and after about 30 seconds, and a bunch of useless documents containting "qu" in the list, it'll register the rest of the query. Clearly it should at least wait for 1-2 seconds of inactivity (and/or the enter key) before it starts to search.

Search results are also more or less useless, the fuzzy content search rarely returns what I expect, and often it misses content that I know is there. Something predictable like "name contains" is much more useful, but as others have noted it's impossible to change the default.

But what really blows is that they removed the file search functionality from Sherlock. It did exactly what I needed, and it did it fast.

Re:need to fix spolight too (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#13050553)

I, also, see no problem with it speed-wise, and I'm using a base Mac Mini - though I have upgraded the RAM to 1GB.

Re:need to fix spolight too (2, Interesting)

logicat2001 (706979) | more than 9 years ago | (#13050534)

The problems with spolight are well known now but I'll recite them: 1) doesn't let you finish typing before it searches...apparently it wont halt and discard the first search as you try to type...You cant stop it.
Press the ESC key.

Re:need to fix spolight too (2)

earthbound kid (859282) | more than 9 years ago | (#13050723)

That erases what you've typed so far... I'd be nice to be able to pause the updating process.

Re:need to fix spolight too (1)

lokedhs (672255) | more than 9 years ago | (#13051007)

Then just type another letter. It automatically restarts the search with the new string. I never have it pause even for a second when doing that.

Re:need to fix spolight too (1)

KH2002 (547812) | more than 9 years ago | (#13051092)

Yes- Spotlight needs fixing. The concepts are good, and in time I think it will be great, but for now it has horrendous usability problems.

Not too long ago, I was using a system with (pre-Spotlight) Panther -- I hit command-F, and the old Find File dialog came up. I was happy to see it instead of Spotlight.

Most of my searches still involve file names, and the old system is superior for that kind of search.

Re:need to fix spolight too (2, Informative)

asparagus (29121) | more than 9 years ago | (#13051171)

Re 3:

This is mainly a problem with the new resource-fork friendly rsync (I assume you're using -E). It can't/doesn't compare the resource forks, and so simply just recopies all files that include them. It's sort of the safer action (makes certain what you're syncing to matches) but, as you've found, gets quite irritating in certain instances (for example, it continually recopies my 2GB VPC image). Here's hoping they fix this in a new version.

Re:need to fix spolight too (1)

MagerValp (246718) | more than 9 years ago | (#13051226)

Amen to that, I find Spotlight slow, buggy, and a giant leap backwards from good old Sherlock. I was really hoping that they would fix the worst bugs in 10.4.2 (delay before it starts to search, making it possible to search by name contains as default), but Spotlight fixes are mysteriously absent from the release notes.

Sherlock used to find my files in a fraction of a second. Spotlight often takes almost 30 seconds before it's done, defaults to a fuzzy search method that doesn't return useful hits, doesn't find documents I know are there, and doesn't remember settings I change.

If Apple doesn't get this sorted out before the semester starts in September, I'm going to have to downgrade a bunch of machines, something I'm not looking forward to...

Are there any 3rd party apps out there that offer workarounds? Something that put file search back into Sherlock would be ideal.

No problems here (2, Interesting)

Nice2Cats (557310) | more than 9 years ago | (#13051287)

While I love being able to text search in content, spotlight is so horribly beta I'm almost at the point of disabling it.

Little tip: Don't wait for it to finish building that list, move down to what you want immediately. Searching before you finish is a feature, not a bug, and it is brilliant. If they change it because of your post I'm going to have to find you and dunk you in onion juice or something.

Spotlight works so beautifully here that I have been telling people it is the single must-have feature with "Tiger" -- it is something that for the first time in years has actually changed the way I use the computer. For example, I don't usually even bother with the Applications folder anymore, I just hit Spotlight and type the name of the program. Works the same with any song I want to hear.

The Dashboard I could do without. Spotlight is a must-have, and I won't be using a operating system (or rather, desktop) again that doesn't have live searching.

rsync bugs are known (1)

amake (673443) | more than 9 years ago | (#13051350)

I make an app that uses rsync, and there are bugs galore in Apple's version. The "always recopies metadata" issue happens even for strictly local backups from HFS+ to HFS+. rsync will unexpectedly crash during the "building file list" phase if the backup source contains too many files.

I've reported both of these to Apple and both of them have been marked "duplicate" so they must be aware of the issue.

Re:need to fix spolight too (1)

Paradise Pete (33184) | more than 9 years ago | (#13051891)

1) doesn't let you finish typing before it searches.

Oddly, if I use the search oval (or whatever it's called) that's in a finder window, I'm sunk. Each character behaves exactly as you say, and I have to wait until it "finds" each substring. But if I use the spotlight oval in the menu bar, I can at least continue typing. But for me it would be a whole lot more useful if it would wait for me to tell it to "OK, now that's I've actually defined what I'm looking for, go ahead and search." The way it acts now is more like a demo than a tool.

And that damn indexing. I think it's Apple's new DRM. Start any downloads and enjoy the pleasantness of the Thrashing Disk Symphony to accompany it. And there's also no way to stop it. No "I'd like to get some work done right now, so please stop churning the disk for a while" option.


GET THE FACTS! (850779) | more than 9 years ago | (#13049867)


OMG, I'm a troll!

Just got it (1)

Laurance (872708) | more than 9 years ago | (#13049869)

Just got it. The Widgets manager was very need after my collection included some widgets that I did not really want.

Re:Just got it (1)

tyu-tn (771718) | more than 9 years ago | (#13049922)

In Widget Manager, you remove a widget by clicking on a red circle with a white minus sign in it. In the iTunes music store shopping cart, you remove a song by clicking on a grey circle with an X in it. I had no idea what the red circle meant-- it didn't even have a tooltip. Where's the consistency?

Re:Just got it (1)

MBCook (132727) | more than 9 years ago | (#13049955)

The widget manager is... a widget?

OK, I wans't expecting that. It looks quite nice though.

No problems here, but it didn't fix that iPhoto bug.

Re:Just got it (3, Informative)

Matrix9180 (734303) | more than 9 years ago | (#13049994)

did you REPORT IT [] ? if you do report it, something more than "that iPhoto bug" would be helpful too.

Re:Just got it (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#13050139)

Was it very neat too? :-)

Re:Just got it (4, Insightful)

Seumas (6865) | more than 9 years ago | (#13050735)

The widget manager would be neat if I hadn't already turned my dashboard off.

Dashboard itself takes about 20MB of memory. Each widget takes at least 20MB of memory. Most people I've seen have at least a half dozen widgets going (if nothing else, the default calendar widget, a notes widget, a weather widget, calculator, countdown...)

Six widgets and dashboard will take up a good 150mb of RAM right there. I'll save my 150mb of ram and use stickies,, regular calendar and the OSX calculator instead, thanks.

Dashboard could be potentially useful, but not if it keeps sucking up the resources it currently needs. And not if all people keep making for dashboard are widgets to replicate what OSX already has readily available (why would I use a stickies/notes feature in dashboard for 20MB ram when I could use the builtin OSX stickies at 9MB?).

Re:Just got it (1)

Seumas (6865) | more than 9 years ago | (#13050757)

Now that I look at the link to Apple in the blurb, the screenshot the show has 9 widgets going. That's at least 200mb of memory right there. The default powerbook comes with 512mb ram. Do you really want to use 50% of your resources for frigging glossy "widgets"?

I was on the widget-bandwagon for a bit, because I liked a few of them and liked having them available at the press of one button. But after I noticed how much of a hog dashboard and the widgets were, I disabled the fuck right out of it.

Wait... (0, Offtopic)

obeythefist (719316) | more than 9 years ago | (#13049875)

So Apple releases new features in the same patch they fix bugs in?

I think Apple is borrowing Microsoft's business practices... that will teach MS for stealing Apple's interface ideas!

Re:Wait... (1)

Reaperducer (871695) | more than 9 years ago | (#13049909)

Must be a side effect of dealing with Intel chips.

I just hope the nice Apple dancer ads won't have to stop cold in the tracks for the stupid "Intel Inside" jingle box. Might as well put NASCAR-style feature stickers all over the Powerbooks.

Re:Wait... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#13050033)

I think they've been doing it for a long time. They release security updates to patch up holes in the OS, and the periodic 10.4.x updates fix bugs and sometimes add features.

Re:Wait... (3, Interesting)

hitchhikerjim (152744) | more than 9 years ago | (#13050083)

Apple has always done that. That's one of the main reasons I can't deploy OSX in any enterprise server environment I run. I'd like to -- but they can't figure out how to treat the OS like a real enterprise company does.

The other issue is that while they give lip-service to supporting old versions, they tend not to come out with security patches for anything but the latest version -- or 1 or 2 releases back at best. Sun, Redhat and SGI would never get away with that.

Re:Wait... (1)

Trillan (597339) | more than 9 years ago | (#13050833)

Well, the security patches go back to 10.2, which is the first modern Mac OS X. 10.0/10.1 machines should definitely be upgraded that far at least. I understand that may not be an option for you, but it is a fair time back.

Apple's feature additions are usually pretty modest. In fact, this widget manager is the first I can really think of for an 0.0.1 release, and it's arguably a security fix...

But yes, it would be nice if you could get the security fixes without the bug fixes.

Server Update Notes (3, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#13049910)


The following items are some of the enhancements and improvements in Mac OS X Server 10.4.2 Update:

Mail Services

Upgrades SpamAssassin and ClamAV to include additional support for TNEF (winmail.dat) files and new detection mechanisms for JPEG-based exploits.

Addresses an issue in which Product License Keys may be reported as invalid due to case sensitivity.
Workgroup Manager

Addresses issues with the creation of custom home directories specified within a subdirectory of a sharepoint.
Addresses compatibility issues for administration of a 10.3.9 server from a 10.4 system with 10.4 admin tools.
Xgrid Admin

Addresses an issue which prevented the Xgrid Admin application from securely connecting to controllers that required Kerberos authentication.
Addresses an issue which may have prevented controllers from sending files to agents.
Improvements made for batch jobs sent through the command line.
Open Directory

Addresses an issue that prevents systems from connecting to Windows 2003 Active Directory deployments.
Addresses an issue in which systems stop authenticating through Active Directory.
Addresses an issue in which Active Directory users who are set as computer administrators may not get admin access to a computer.
Addresses an issue that prevents Mobile Accounts from authenticating with Active Directory.
Addresses an issue where the DirectoryService process may stop after waking from sleep.
Addresses an issue in which newly-created accounts may not be able to authenticate or appear in user lists.
Addresses an issue where Password Server may stop working, causing authentications to fail when replicated Password Servers are used.
Addresses an issue where kerberos authentications may fail after importing a large number of users (60,000 or more).
Apple File Services

Addresses an issue where Apple File Services may pause indefinitely after experiencing heavy loads.
Addresses an issue which prevented Apple File Services from setting inherited permissions in nested folders within shared volumes.
Addresses an issue where multiple automounts from a single client would incorrectly count against 10-client Server licenses.
Disk Imaging

Addresses an issue which may have caused failure reports when used with large volumes.
Managed Users

Addresses an issue which prevented some Login Window management options from being honored.

Addresses issues which may have caused the mountd process to crash when NFS is used to host HFS volumes.

Improves handling of workgroup and file names when connecting and copying to shared SMB volumes.
Addresses issues causing -36 connection failures when connecting to SMB shared volumes with an old keychain password.
Addresses an issue that may cause kernel panics on multiple Xsan systems when unmounting Xsan volumes.

According to new benchmarks (5, Funny)

HomerJ (11142) | more than 9 years ago | (#13049914)

it is 34% more snappy, and applicaions open with 21% less DBs(dock bounces) than 10.4.1

Re:According to new benchmarks (3, Informative)

elbobo (28495) | more than 9 years ago | (#13050267)

I cringe at saying it, but I *actually am* finding this one snappier. Or to be more precise, I'm finding it less memory hungry.

Widgets seem to be using up considerably less memory and running more smoothly than previously, which in turn frees up more memory for other tasks and has reduced general swapping.

Re:According to new benchmarks (1)

QuaZar666 (164830) | more than 9 years ago | (#13050303)

See I am going to wait a few days and see if Apple releases any fixes for it before installing it. But a person I work with installed it and I really like the look of the Widget manager. I didn't get a chance to use his system to find out if the speed increased or anything, but in a few days I probally will.

Re:According to new benchmarks (1)

TheRaven64 (641858) | more than 9 years ago | (#13051669)

Seconded. I am finding my system doing a lot less thrashing since the update. The main culprit was Safari, which seems to have dropped from using about 120MB to using about 40-60 in normal use.

I can also report that Quartz 2D Extreme seems to be a lot closer to being production-ready. I was finding that it resulted in some image corruption (lost or incorrectly placed characters, and incorrect Z-ordering) when displaying complex PDFs, but this appears to have been fixed in the latest release.

Re:According to new benchmarks (1)

trapvector (17516) | more than 9 years ago | (#13051951)

After updating on my g3/400 iMac, the only thing I've really noticed is that the Dashboard opens much, much faster.


Ah but the question remains (1)

ravenspear (756059) | more than 9 years ago | (#13050419)

Have we reached Teh Snappy(TM) yet?

Quietly? (5, Funny)

Raypeso (851771) | more than 9 years ago | (#13049941)

Everytime there is a post about an apple update it always says "Quietly released". What the hell do you want Apple to do? Major newspaper headlines? Have Steve Jobs land a helicopter in your front yard to tell you the news? Christ, it's a minor update.

Tune in tonight (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#13049981)

For the Apple Computer 10.4.2 Release Extravaganza! Fireworks! Fun! Special guest host David Hasslehoff will wrestle a real live grizzly bear for a corned beef sandwich! See it all on FOX!

Re:Quietly? (1)

The Lost Supertone (754279) | more than 9 years ago | (#13050019)

Never thought of that... maybe they want Software Update to be remotely launched by Apple, and balloon widgets pop up all over the desktop and a big banner to fly across the screen saying, "Upgrade now or Ives will not love you!"

Re:Quietly? (1)

josejose50 (896777) | more than 9 years ago | (#13050086)

They are low key about some of their updates though, I was online tonight with my apple laptop and the software updater didnt flag it. Also, didnt see it prominently displayed on the Apple startup page as of 8 PM EDT. []
What I do when I'm not on slashdot

Re:Quietly? (1)

PoshSpod (549405) | more than 9 years ago | (#13050115)

It's quiet because it didn't appear on the frontpage of Slashdot.

Oh, wait...

Re:Quietly? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#13050167)

this specific slashdot article didn't...

Re:Quietly? (1)

Seumas (6865) | more than 9 years ago | (#13050771)

No, I want a "speechserver" voice of Steve Jobs (why hasn't a Steve Jobs voice been added to Fred and Bells and GoodNews and the rest?!) announcing that a glorious new update is available. Then I want it to launch a flashy fireworks screensaver while the details of the update and a big status bar scroll by in the background. Then, I want it to redirect my browser to KOOL-AIDE's website.

Re:Quietly? (1)

Ilgaz (86384) | more than 9 years ago | (#13051418)

Thanks to that minor update my internal modem is back to life and software update do not crash anymore.

Also, I re enable bug reporting since it won't use 90% of non idle CPU to figure what modem is installed.

Doesn't change I am staring to an actual fax device now :)

I have never seen ordinary end users waited for an operating system update that way on any platform.

BTW, clever people will buy or install Tiger now. Patient, clever people. Unlike me :)

Crap (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#13050029)

Tiger is complete crap. A yukky embarrassment which was overhyped as usual by Jobs.

Apple have so lost their direction now, it is just sad to watch them flailing around like drunken monkeys desperately trying to stuff more crap into OS X.

It's over Apple. Intel + Leopard is going to be the end. It's such a shame. You kept Jobs on too long and got too distracted by the iPod and iTunes. As a result your hardware and OS just tumbled into junk. The next release of OS X will be about as good as Microsoft would have done if they were running Apple.

Re:Crap (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#13050282)

Guess you're still pissed you bought that Dell DJ, huh?

you don't own a Mac, do you? (1)

toby (759) | more than 9 years ago | (#13050622)


Crash crash crash (2, Interesting)

alms (871430) | more than 9 years ago | (#13050127)

I've had two hard crashes since I installed this. Hopefully it's just software and not that my iMac is dying.

Re:Crash crash crash (0, Troll)

jaypaulw (889877) | more than 9 years ago | (#13050772)

macs don't crash, linux boxes crash

Under what conditions? (2, Insightful)

MochaMan (30021) | more than 9 years ago | (#13050904)

If you've experienced crashes since you installed the update, under what conditions did they happen? What were you doing at the time? What do you mean by "hard crashes"? Application crash? The Finder giving you a SPOD? Kernel panics? If it's kernel panics, what external hardware are you using? Did it happen when you plugged-in or unplugged a camera/printer/network cable?

Saying "I've had two hard crashes since I installed this" is neither informative nor useful in debugging the issue. I'd also recommend that you file a bug with Apple [] so they're aware of the issue. You might also get the feedback you want that'll help you decipher whether your iMac is dying or not.

My experience has been fairly decent, with Apple getting back to me within a couple days of reporting a kernel panic due to network switching from Airport to ethernet, and textual feedback on other issues.

Also... (1)

dispensa (57441) | more than 9 years ago | (#13050253)

I also got a DVD playback update and an iSync update. Here's hoping it fixes the annoying iSync menubar icon problem - the menubar icon only wants to sync .Mac accounts now (utterly useless imo), whereas in Panther it would sync my cell phone.

Re:Also... (1)

SonicBV (644848) | more than 9 years ago | (#13050398)

That's not a bug, and it's not something that's likely to be fixed. The menu extra in question is now known as the .Mac Sync menu extra, not iSync. iSync is now essentially an application, as opposed to a service.

The aforementioned menu extra will, indeed, sync your cell phone via iSync (which now slaves to .Mac Sync) as long as the iSync application is open. Apple's help files even recommend having iSync open at login, but check the spiffy "Hide" option in the Login Items pane of the Accounts system preference.

It threw off my workflow a bit, as well, so you're not alone. However, it's one of those situations where things have changed, and there's not a lot we can do about it.

G5 chirping gone (1)

wandazulu (265281) | more than 9 years ago | (#13050277)

It would seem that my G5 no longer 'chirps' when moving around the dock, screensaver, etc. I had been using the 'Dis-allow nap' trick, but so far all seems to be well.

Quartz 2D Extreme? (1)

Rauser (631244) | more than 9 years ago | (#13050332)

So, is Q2DX (or whatever ya want to call it) enabled with this update? Inquiring minds want to know...

Re:Quartz 2D Extreme? (1)

bdaehlie (537484) | more than 9 years ago | (#13050381)

No. It won't make it into 10.4 ever. Apple simply couldn't make it work in time. You can enable it with the Quartz Debug developer tool, but be warned - they disabled it for a reason.

Re:Quartz 2D Extreme? (1)

SPY_jmr1 (768281) | more than 9 years ago | (#13050414)

You're right. It won't be added to 10.4 . I wouldn't like to run 10.4 either. I'd much rather be using 10.4.X where X equals $CURRENT . I'm sure 10.4.X will have Q2DX sooner or later. Even if it's LATER, it will be fine. Why? Because it works now. If it's fixed later, YAY, otherwise, it still works as is.

Re:Quartz 2D Extreme? (1)

TheRaven64 (641858) | more than 9 years ago | (#13051681)

I don't know if it's enabled by default. You can manually enable it by editing a plist file and rebooting, which I did. 10.4.2 seems to fix the only bugs I'd encountered with it. With 10.4.1 then displaying complex PDFs could result in some characters being missing or placed in the wrong horizontal location, and images were sometimes incorrectly z-ordered (e.g. a black shadow being in front of an object, rather than behind it). 10.4.2 displays the same PDF correctly (as did 10.4.1 without Q2DE)

Tab Key Adopts New Function (0)

nflu (830885) | more than 9 years ago | (#13050335)

Previously, I'd use the Option-Tab key command for activating my QuickSilver [] box. However, after I did the update, I realized the tab key now allows you to key through desktop icons, and, of course, option-tab does it backwards. If this was a previous functionality, it never got in my way before until now. :(

Re:Tab Key Adopts New Function (1)

The Amazing Fish Boy (863897) | more than 9 years ago | (#13050410)

I justed tested in 10.4.1, and it seems TAB works like that. OPTION-TAB, however, does not do anything.

Re:Tab Key Adopts New Function (2, Informative)

SonicBV (644848) | more than 9 years ago | (#13050417)

Check in the Keyboard & Mouse system preference. Often times, I try to make a custom key command in some app, and it's already taken by something in the Full Keyboard Access list.

If that's not it, however, I'm out of ideas. Having never tried that key combination before the update (or at least I don't remember trying it), I dunno if it's new.

Re:Tab Key Adopts New Function (1)

klez23 (524506) | more than 9 years ago | (#13051009)

It does the same thing in 10.4.1. Not sure why it suddenly interferes with your Quicksilver.

Fuck. YES. (3, Funny)

BandwidthHog (257320) | more than 9 years ago | (#13050367)

The hotfiles_evict thing [] is fucking killing me. If it weren't for the iBook, I would have had to do a clean install on the tower by now. If 10.4.2 doesn't fix it, you're gonna have (at least) one pissed off Apple Fanboy on your hands!!!1011!!

'"Do you hear me Jobs?!?!?" he cried, sloshing chardonnay(sp?) all about the joint.'

Working around the hotfiles_evict problem (3, Interesting)

Jimithing DMB (29796) | more than 9 years ago | (#13050794)

The easiest way to work around hotfiles_evict is to free up some space on the drive. The big catch is that the freespace must have a contiguous block large enough to store the file which is being evicted from the hotfiles area.

I had the hotfiles_evict problem on a G4 tower at work. The boot drive was about 98% full. After moving some files onto an external FireWire drive I got down to about 90% full. The problem remained. I then moved more stuff until I got down to about 80% full.

Between the 90 and 80 mark I also disabled journalling on the volume. This, I think, is the easiest way to fix it. Disabling journalling also disables hotfiles and therefore the update daemon will no longer try to manage the hotfiles store.

I haven't seen the problem resurface yet. Note that this was a DP G4 and so update only ate 100% of one CPU (barely noticeable). What I did notice was the fact that my boot drive suddenly had ZERO freespace because the system.log grew to about 6 GB. Yes, I know, this actually exacerbates the problem.

I can only hope that 10.4.2 fixes the issue. I'll probably re-enable journaling and see what happens.

Also, speaking of drive freespace: There is apparently a known flaw in HFS+ with respect to contiguous freespace. When allocating new space for the catalog a 4 MB block of contiguous freespace is required. If you don't have a 4 MB block of contiguous freespace then apparently there is a bug whereby 4 MB will be allocated potentially overtop another portion of the catalog or overtop some file's data. Not good. Best advice from what I've gathered is to never let a volume be more than 80% full. Ever.

Activity Monitor (1)

lowe0 (136140) | more than 9 years ago | (#13050422)

Doesn't fix the missing framework for Activity Monitor.

Anyone know how to extract that framework from the install DVD? My Google-fu fails me today.

Re:Activity Monitor (1)

Ilgaz (86384) | more than 9 years ago | (#13051428)

You need Pacifist. 12743 []

Don't miss my "usage tip" under Ilgaz name, it includes what to disable to avoid compatability problems.

We are speaking about Pacifist 1.6.3 here btw. In case its updated, ignore my tip.

List of improvements (0, Redundant)

Anonymous Cumshot (859434) | more than 9 years ago | (#13050665)


* With this update, logging out of Mac OS X automatically disconnects the computer from an AirPort network if it is using WPA Enterprise security settings (this does not affect WPA Personal WEP-secured networks).
* The AirPort menu extra displays more information when you enable a Software Access Point with this update installed.
* Adds support for AES encryption of WPA-PSK networks, which are supported by many wireless access points.
* The Try Again button behaves as expected when attempting to join a third-party, WEP-enabled wireless access point with this update.
* Improves reliability when associating with wireless networks after waking from sleep.
* Improves WPA2 wireless encryption support for AirPort Extreme cards.


* In Mail, if you retrieve and sort IMAP mail using multiple email clients, the counts of unread IMAP messages in mailboxes other than what's in your Inbox are more accurate with this update.
* Addresses an issue in which IMAP messages deleted in Mail could unexpectedly "reappear" after a few seconds.
* In some situations, a Mail message's attached graphic displayed as a small blue box with a question mark inside the message window, even though the attached file was just fine; this update addresses the issue.
* Mail no longer tries to print an HTML message's remote images if the "Display remote images in HTML messages" option is deselected--the message is printed without the graphics instead--after this update is installed.
* This update addresses an issue for Mail in which signatures with graphics were not appearing as expected.


* With this update, you can successfully send and receive AIM messages using iChat after changing network locations (without having to log out and back in)--from wireless to Ethernet, for example.
* If iChat is logged in to your AIM account in Mac OS X 10.4 or 10.4.1, logging in to the same account on a different computer disconnects the Tiger computer without warning--this update adds a preference choice to iChat to avoid this, if desired.
* iChat no longer states that the network is unavailable if you intentionally disconnect from the Internet using Internet Connect without first quitting iChat.
* Improves video framerate for iChat when certain kinds of background processes or applications are running.
* Resolves a situation in which iChat could incorrectly report "insufficient bandwidth to maintain conference," even though enough bandwidth was available.


* Addresses an issue in which the Finder could unexpectedly quit if Show Package Contents was chosen several times from the shortcut menu for the same package.
* The Finder slideshow feature should now always work as expected.
* If ACLs were enabled on an SMB volume, a Get Info window in the Finder wouldn't show the Details section when getting info on files stored on the volume--this update addresses the issue.
* Addresses an issue in which a supported burning device could unexpectedly be seen as "unsupported" by the Finder.
* The duration of MP3 files is accurately reported in Get Info windows in the Finder with this update.

Other applications

* With this update, many applications, including Safari, work better with proxy servers that require authentication.
* With this update, you can use Safari to log in to MyAccount on
* Safari pages scroll better with this update when scrolling with a scroll wheel (such as one on a third-party mouse or keyboard).
* Orange iCal calendars, with alarms that go off while iCal is not open, no longer change color after the alarm is snoozed.
* Addresses an issue in which notes could disappear unexpectedly if Stickies opens automatically during login (if it was set as a Login Item in Accounts preferences).
* Addresses an issue for Adobe Premiere 6.5 in which the application could unexpectedly quit when exporting a file.
* With this update, the Reduce File Size option in Preview works as expected when saving a file as a PDF from the File menu.
* Addresses a Keychain Scripting issue in which the "password" property of a key often could not be retrieved.

iDisk, WebDAV

* Improves .Mac iDisk syncing after changing network locations--an iDisk could incorrectly appear to be offline after switching networks, causing syncing to stop working.
* With this update, you can access iDisk or other WebDAV servers through HTTP and HTTPS proxies.
* HTTP/HTTPS proxy account and password settings defined in Network preferences are now used by the WebDAV file system as expected.
* Addresses some issues that could occur when saving files directly to an iDisk.


* Addresses an issue in which some Apple internal modems would not dial, and the PPP log would include a message such as "Failed to open /dev/cu.modem: Resource busy".
* Adds improvements to Active Directory support.
* Addresses an alert "Error code -8065" that could occur when copying a file through SMB to a Microsoft Windows-based PC volume a second time, if the file had previously been deleted from the PC.
* Includes other enhancements related to connecting to and using Windows-based file servers (SMB/CIFS).
* Allows Active Directory users with Mobile Accounts to authenticate without being connected to the Active Directory network.
* Allows Active Directory users to log in after a restart.
* Resolves an issue that prevented Active Directory users from accessing certain Kerberized services, such as ssh, on a Windows 2003 server.
* Active Directory users can be given local admin privileges on a client computer, with this update.

Other enhancements

* Software Update no longer unexpectedly quits in certain situations after upgrading to Mac OS X 10.4 Tiger and changing Network Port settings, after installing this update. More....
* With this update installed, Disk Utility (and fsck) can better resolve "Overlapped Extent Allocation" issues that could appear when verifying or repairing a disk.
* Xgrid can now map multiple input files using the inputFileMap key, and retrieve results from multitask jobs using the command line.
* The Dashboard widget Unit Converter requires much less CPU usage after installing this update.
* Improves performance for the web-based Power School student information system ( [] ).
* Improves compatibility when using an HP Deskjet 5850 printer wirelessly.
* Improves compatibility for HP LaserJet 1320 printers.
* This update ensures that periodic background maintenance tasks run as scheduled in launchd.conf.
* Addresses an issue in which custom installations from a Mac OS X 10.4 Tiger Install disc that don't require starting up from the disc could cause Installer to stop responding ("hang") for a couple of minutes if the destination volume was write-protected (eventually, a "There is not enough space for this item" message would appear).
* External disks no longer unmount unexpectedly when switching users, if Fast User Switching is enabled.
* Addresses an issue in which after performing a NetInstall or restoring Mac OS X from a disk image, you may see certain files and folders at the root level of the Mac OS X volume that are not supposed to be visible, such as etc, tmp, and var. More....
* With this update, the ttys file can be edited in Tiger; for example, if you're creating a login hook.
* Addresses an issue in which the computer might wake from sleep with a black screen if it went to sleep while prompting you for a keychain password.
* Allows users to log in with Kerberos authentication when using an file.
* These Automator actions are updated in this update: Add Files to Playlist, Add Songs to Playlist, Import Photos into iPhoto, New Mail Message, Run Shell Script.
* The AppleScript "do shell script" command has been revised.

Slowed my computer down. (1)

eadint (156250) | more than 9 years ago | (#13050796)

I hope that its something else but this is the first time that an update has slowed my computer down noticably.

Re:Slowed my computer down. (1)

mr100percent (57156) | more than 9 years ago | (#13051255)

update your prebindings and erase your caches. Also, reboot.

Please report bugs, folks! (4, Insightful)

JoshWurzel (320371) | more than 9 years ago | (#13050873)

I see a lot of people complaining on a lot of forums about this bug or that bug. Not that this isn't valid, but hoping that someone from the particular group at Apple will read your post is not a good way to go about getting your problem solved.

Step 1: Go to and sign up for a free (as in beer) membership (or sign up for one of the expensive memberships if you want free software, hardware discounts, etc).

Step 2: Go to and fill out a report. You'll have to give up some info about your system and *detailed* info about the behavior, why its wrong, and what needs to be different. And if you can isolate the problem to a particular configuration, it'll help them fix the bug faster.

These enter Apple's internal bugtracking system. Some of your complaints are duplicates of existing ones, but if enough people bitch about a particular issue then there will be more pressure to fix it.

There is no step 3! (er, profit!)

The downside is that you'll likely never hear back from them. Even if the bug is solved, you'll never know until they release a new version. They may decide that the behavior is "works as intended" and ignore you. There is no way to follow the progress of your bug.

Re:Please report bugs, folks! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#13050971)

Apple gets about eight to nine hundred bug reports daily through the ADC bug reporter. Evidently their software is massively buggy.

the simplest bugs aren't getting fixed... (1)

SuperBanana (662181) | more than 9 years ago | (#13050990)

I see a lot of people complaining on a lot of forums about this bug or that bug. Not that this isn't valid, but hoping that someone from the particular group at Apple will read your post is not a good way to go about getting your problem solved.

Fair enough- but there are some serious bugs that still haven't been fixed, and are blatantly obvious. For example- add someone to your address book from Mail. It will flip their name around, putting "Last" in the "First" spot (YES, I'm aware of the 'sort/display list by last name' option, I'm talking about the edit pane).

Re:the simplest bugs aren't getting fixed... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#13051012)

Serious bugs are routinely ignored at Apple.

For example:

In Caculator, enter 87.68. Subtract 6.1, then subtract 23.43, then subtract 3.16, then subtract 4.99, then subtract 50.

On my G4 Cube, G4 1.0 Ghz, and G5 Calculator gives me a result of 7.1054273576e-15. The correct answer is zero.

Submitted that one last year. Still waiting for a fix

That isn't going to be fixed (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#13051310)

When will people get that a floating point calculator is *always* going to have this kind of issue? Even the venerable HP 48 has floating point issues under certain circumstances.

If you need fallback to integer accuracy in all situations, if you absolutely *need* symbolic zero, rather than applying the significant figures with your brain, then use Maple or Mathematica or something like this. A desktop calculator app requires a brain to use. It's a dumb little application.

Bottom line: That's not a bug. It's a limitation of the app. The answer is not importantly wrong.

Re:That isn't going to be fixed (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#13051433)

Why use Maple or matematica when EVERY other app other then Apples can get this right? It's a bug.

Re:the simplest bugs aren't getting fixed... (1)

goonerw (99408) | more than 9 years ago | (#13051557)

It gives me the correct answer of 0 on my G4 PB (10.4.2).

Re:Please report bugs, folks! (2, Insightful)

MagerValp (246718) | more than 9 years ago | (#13051304)

The downside is that you'll likely never hear back from them. Even if the bug is solved, you'll never know until they release a new version. They may decide that the behavior is "works as intended" and ignore you. There is no way to follow the progress of your bug.

And until they start communicating with people who file bug reports, people are going to keep complaining in public forums. Quietly waiting for months for Apple to (maybe) release a fix in the next update is rarely an option. Bitching in forums will usually get sympathetic replies from other users suffering from the same problem, and every now and then someone has a fix or a workaround that'll work until the official patch is released.

Sun, on the other hand, handles these kinds of things in an exemplary way (assuming that you have a support contract of course). If you file a bug report, a tech will get back to you for more details. Once the bug has been confirmed by their developers, you're informed. When they have developed a fix, they send out a test patch for you to try, and you get to confirm that it solves the problem. Granted, this is not the kind of support that you can give end users, but professional admins with a support contract deserve nothing less. Oh, and if you ever restricted access to an NFS share by subnet on Solaris 8/x86, you may buy me a beer ;)

Re:Please report bugs, folks! (3, Interesting)

TheRaven64 (641858) | more than 9 years ago | (#13051693)

until they start communicating with people who file bug reports, people are going to keep complaining in public forums.

They do communicate. I've filed bugs with Apple, had them contact me for additional information and to test fixes.

Re:Please report bugs, folks! (1)

J. Random Luser (824671) | more than 9 years ago | (#13051809)

Sorry to report, it worked for me. I reported a bug in QuickTime Player v.6 for Windows, Preferences had a link for extra help which went to a totally outdated irrelevant part of Apple's website. They took 15 months to get back to me, asked if it was still a problem with the latest version, yes I told them, latest official version 6.5.2 was still broken. 3 weeks later they get back to me, try the v.7 preview, and now it's fixed.

One happy camper, if a little tired...

Re:Please report bugs, folks! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#13051623)

Step 3: Your bug is marked as duplicate. Months then pass without it getting fixed.

200 bugs fixed? (2, Informative)

rorya (68697) | more than 9 years ago | (#13051063)

I think the poster misunderstood. The linked page talks about the supposed 200 new features in 10.4, not bugs fixed in this update.

How to hang OS X 10.4.2 and prior (1)

otterfish (50077) | more than 9 years ago | (#13051422)

Try this:

Connect to a server and mount a share using AirPort as your network interface.

Go to the Airport menu in the menu bar and choose "Turn AirPort Off"

Enjoy Spinning Beach Ball of Death for extended period of time.

kind of annoying... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#13051486)

...why is this bug still there? Most annoying OS.X bug, of all times.

swapping less? (1)

tf23 (27474) | more than 9 years ago | (#13051674)

I just installed it on my 15" 1.25 Powerbook. No problems. Overall, it seems snappier - it's definitely swapping less. However, spotlight seems slower. It's taking forever to do a simple search that I routinely do, and have done w/ 10.4 and 10.4.1.

Will there be retail boxes with 10.4.2? (1)

tomma (138142) | more than 9 years ago | (#13051941)

A couple of weeks ago I read somewhere that new Tiger retail boxes were going to contain 10.4.2 after it was released. However, I don't seem to find anything back on that. Was it just a rumour, or can I finally pick up Tiger, slot load the DVD and install 10.4.2 immediately within a couple of weeks....
Load More Comments
Slashdot Login

Need an Account?

Forgot your password?