Beta
×

Welcome to the Slashdot Beta site -- learn more here. Use the link in the footer or click here to return to the Classic version of Slashdot.

Thank you!

Before you choose to head back to the Classic look of the site, we'd appreciate it if you share your thoughts on the Beta; your feedback is what drives our ongoing development.

Beta is different and we value you taking the time to try it out. Please take a look at the changes we've made in Beta and  learn more about it. Thanks for reading, and for making the site better!

Debian Sid Moves to X.Org

CmdrTaco posted more than 9 years ago | from the politics-and-guis-oh-my dept.

Debian 212

debiansid writes "Yes, Debian sid finally has X.Org. The Changelogs suggest that some work has been taken from the Ubuntu packages of X.Org. Here is an article that gives details on how to migrate to X.Org on sid. This article, by the way, has been posted from an X.Org based X-Window System, and it really IS much faster than XFree86."

Sorry! There are no comments related to the filter you selected.

FP (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#13086725)

FROST PIST OWNS YOU!!!!!!!!!

SP (-1, Offtopic)

DaedalusHKX (660194) | more than 9 years ago | (#13086734)

and nice FP

Re:FP (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#13086738)

WOW D00D THATS TEH SHIT!!!!

x.org (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#13086731)

gave me frist post

( () ).org (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#13087122)

gave me frist post

No. Fuck you.

FP! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#13086732)

Ok, FP!

Oh really? (3, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#13086735)

This article, by the way, has been posted from an X.Org based X-Window System, and it really IS much faster than XFree86."

Last I checked, the only difference between the two was the license and a couple of new drivers. Certainly nothing to explain a "much faster" performance. Perhaps you could explain to us in a little more detail, how your's is "much faster"? Does it have anything to do with the fact that you are using it on a newer and more powerful machine?

Re:Oh really? (4, Informative)

Sodki (621717) | more than 9 years ago | (#13086749)

Initially, X.Org was just a fork of Xfree86, but no more. Good "under the hood" work has been done recently in the X.Org field.

Re:Oh really? (1)

Curtman (556920) | more than 9 years ago | (#13087153)

A while back, I had looked into what would be involved in setting up a X.Org traffic weekly/monthly/whatever. If anyone is interested in doing this, I have some info from Zack Brown [curtman.mine.nu] who does Kernel Traffic [kerneltraffic.org] about how he makes it all happen. Something like that for the various X.Org lists (DRI-devel, and the X.Org lists themselves) would be very helpful I think. I wish I had the time and patience to make it happen myself. :(

I think it would be very helpful for attracting new developers if people could easily keep tabs on what is going on under the hood.

No, its probably because in reality (4, Informative)

DaedalusHKX (660194) | more than 9 years ago | (#13086750)

They're using "fglrx" drivers from ATI instead of the default 2d "ati" drivers :)

But what do I know, it only quadrupled my framerate in OpenGL apps. So all it comes down to, is probably much newer or more complete video drivers.

Re:Oh really? (1)

irtza (893217) | more than 9 years ago | (#13086802)

Speaking of speed. Has anyone tried DirectFB? I hear its supposed to offer more features/speed, but it seems a bit too betaish for me to try it. Was wondering if anyone more brave has tried it with a Radeon 7000. Would love to leach some info off of them.

Re:Oh really? (4, Informative)

niko9 (315647) | more than 9 years ago | (#13086806)

Last I checked, the only difference between the two was the license and a couple of new drivers. Certainly nothing to explain a "much faster" performance. Perhaps you could explain to us in a little more detail, how your's is "much faster"? Does it have anything to do with the fact that you are using it on a newer and more powerful machine?

Not true. look here [x.org]

I have both the Radeon (at home) and the Intel i810 drivers in use witht he new Xorg in Sid, and performance in 2D is a little faster.

Using transparency with the damage extension is a whole other story....

My thanks to all who worked hard on getting Xorg into debian.

Re:Oh really? (5, Informative)

niko9 (315647) | more than 9 years ago | (#13086829)

I forgot to add:

* ATI Radeon driver updates:
o Merged Framebuffer support (dualhead with DRI)
o DynamicClocks option (reduced power usage)
o Render acceleration (r100, r200 chips only)
o Support for new ATI chips (R420/M18, R423, RV370/M22, RV380/M24, RS300)
o DRI support for IGP chips
o Xv gamma correction
o Updated 3D drivers
o Many other small fixes
* Chips driver update
o Improved BE support
* MGA driver updates
o Support for DDC and DPMS on second head on G400
o Updated 3D driver
* Neomagic driver updates
o Support for Xv on pre-nm2160 chips
o Pseudocolor overlay mode (=PseudoColor emulation)
o Improved support for lowres double scan modes
* i810 driver updates
o Dualhead support (i830+)
o i915 support
o New 3D driver (i830+)
o i810 driver is now supported for AMD64
* S3 driver updates
o Support for additional IBM RAMDACS
* Savage driver updates
o Pseudocolor overlay mode
* SiS driver updates include
o output device hotplugging
o lots of fixes for 661, 741, 760
o extended interface for SiSCtrl?
o extended LCD handling (allow more modes)
o HDTV support (480p, 480i, 720p. 1080i; 315/330 series)
o Added video blitter Xv adapter (315/330 series)
o extended RENDER acceleration
o SiS driver now supported on AMD64
* New Voodoo driver (Alan Cox)
o Provides native (glide-less) acceleration and mode setup for voodoo/voodoo2 boards

Re:Oh really? (1)

dresgarcia (251585) | more than 9 years ago | (#13086850)

I believe it was x.org 6.8.2(on my mac so I can't check) that was a big release, after installing it I had noticeable performance improvements.

Re:Oh really? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#13087522)

No, it's true. I upgraded to Xorg and it's much snappier now!

changelogs (5, Funny)

bonk (13623) | more than 9 years ago | (#13086745)

Ubuntu changelogs suggest some work was taken from Debian as well.

Re:changelogs (1)

Jeff DeMaagd (2015) | more than 9 years ago | (#13086913)

Ubuntu changelogs suggest some work was taken from Debian as well.

I would imagine that is the case, and I don't think anyone is pretending that it isn't.

While I think it is nice that Ubuntu is contributing to Linux, I am curious why it had to be the case, wouldn't that make Debian distribution development the slowest of the major distributions?

Re:changelogs (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#13086981)

GP was funny. Laugh.

Re:changelogs (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#13087524)

What I want out of every one of you is a hard target search of every gas-station, residence, warehouse, farmhouse, henhouse, outhouse and doghouse in this area. We will not stop until we find the humour that was lost on you.

Mmmmm, debian (-1, Troll)

keesh (202812) | more than 9 years ago | (#13086754)

The bleeding edge of obsolescence.

Re:Mmmmm, debian (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#13086768)

party like its 1999

One complication... (5, Informative)

stevey (64018) | more than 9 years ago | (#13086767)

One complication to the upgrade not really covered here (I wrote that article) is the simultaneous C++ ABI transition Debian Unstable is going through.

This means that upgrading might cause you to loose a lot of packages like gdm, etc.

So if you try the upgrade and apt-get, or aptitude demand you remove lots of packages then the reason is the C++ ABI change - and if you simply wait a few days/weeks it should resolve itself.

At the time the article was posted things were less bad.

Re:One complication... (2, Insightful)

ansible (9585) | more than 9 years ago | (#13086870)

It would be really nice if Debian started another release process right after the transition to X.org and the C++ ABI are finished.

I really like Debian, and I'd prefer not to wait a couple years for the next release. :-)

Re:One complication... (1)

ewe2 (47163) | more than 9 years ago | (#13086883)

Actually the only problems I'm having is losing packages due to the GL library package rename and conflict. Why couldn't they contact the blender, audacity, vlc or csound maintainers for instance? Yes I know it's sid, that's not an excuse for bad communication. This, more than anything is going to get Debian a bad reputation.

Re:One complication... (1)

poopdeville (841677) | more than 9 years ago | (#13086946)

You know it's sid, but apparently don't know what that means. Sid is an experimental fork, recommended for use by Debian developers only. It is highly unstable, and Debian never claimed otherwise. If you want to use Debian with Xorg, wait at least until it gets into Testing.

Re:One complication... (2)

DrSkwid (118965) | more than 9 years ago | (#13086937)

Watch out when you loose those packages, they tend to be hard to catch and can hide out in the crawl space!!

Re:One complication... (1, Troll)

Pflipp (130638) | more than 9 years ago | (#13087360)

Why, o why do they always make changing the C++ ABI such an effort? It takes some credibility out of C++ as a stable lower-level programming target if such a relatively frequently occuring change in the core obsoletes so much essential packages.

(Oh and please, don't make any sharp remarks about the quality of C++ as a language that I have already swallowed ;-)

Re:One complication... (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#13087559)

The glibc transition wasnt exactly a walk in the park either.

Painless (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#13086771)

Yesterday I upgraded, answered two questions or so.

And today I boot my system, and all of the sudden I see Xorg in the process list, I completely forgot I switched!

Even tough the packages have common roots, I still think it's impressive, the way it should be.

Go Debian ;)

Is sid testing now? (1)

eneville (745111) | more than 9 years ago | (#13086773)

It's about time Sid gave me something interesting. So whats unstable now?

Re:Is sid testing now? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#13086796)

Sid is always unstable. It's where the new things start so eventually X.org will move up to testing then stable (but we'll all likely be dead before it hits stable).

Re:Is sid testing now? (1)

mattyrobinson69 (751521) | more than 9 years ago | (#13087372)

no. sarge is stable, etch is testing.

the version names are all from toy story, and sid is the kid that always broke the toys - therefore, sid will always be unstable.

packages from unstable trickle down into testing, which eventually get released all in one go to stable (like sarge did recently).

Re:Is sid testing now? (1)

Narchie Troll (581273) | more than 9 years ago | (#13087385)

Sid is always unstable. The new testing codename is Etch.

2004 just called. (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#13086775)

They want their windowing system back...

1863 just telegraphed. (0, Offtopic)

kinzillah (662884) | more than 9 years ago | (#13086841)

They want their petrol based internal combustion engine back...

Re:1863 just telegraphed. (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#13087016)

The overlords just called, they want their guy who bitches but can't invent anything himself back.

*blink* *blink* (3, Interesting)

WWWWolf (2428) | more than 9 years ago | (#13086776)

Yesterday, I was having headaches updating something because Debian was again in motion and not all libjack packages had been recompiled to 0.100 yet. Among other things, libsdl1.2-dev was somehow suffering from this. I wanted to upgrade that package, but it depended on something called libglu1-xorg-dev. At which point I got worried...

apt-get search shows "xserver-xorg".

My first reaction was along the lines of "Well, as they might say, the End is Nigh" and the second thought was "wonder if anyone has a migration guide?"

Thanks for answering the second bit, I was already wondering why Slashdot hasn't noted this. I mean, I'm guessing I'm getting old if I find out the cool stuff before it gets posted =)

Re:*blink* *blink* (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#13086789)

But I thought "Debian unstable is more stable than most distros".

Oh wait, that's just crap propoganda only the True Believers buy into...

Re:*blink* *blink* (3, Informative)

WWWWolf (2428) | more than 9 years ago | (#13086816)

But I thought "Debian unstable is more stable than most distros".
Oh wait, that's just crap propoganda only the True Believers buy into...

It is stable if you don't do crazy stuff like "apt-get dist-upgrade in a cronjob". =) The idea is to only upgrade when things don't look too broken.

Right now, if I say "apt-get install jackd", it says tons of packages are going to get nuked. Should I go ahead? No, the old versions of the proggies work. Will I go ahead? As soon as things get resolved.

Debian Unstable is fine if you use it like I do - when you need a new version of something, install it, and don't try to keep everything up-to-date all the time. And upgrade things if you can.

Re:*blink* *blink* (1)

dahlek (861921) | more than 9 years ago | (#13087369)

Praise the Maker, so I'm not the only one? GAIM is having issues too...

It shocked me at first - I haven't been using Debian all that long compared to my total Linux life - the reason I switched was the nightmares associated with installing packages such as transcode in Red Hat (before they switched to apt), or even in Mandrake using urpmi (trust me, urpmi is no apt!) So when these things complained about installing, I felt like I stepped back in time several years, ready to pull out a pad and pencil and hunt down all of the silly depedencies...

dahlek

gentoo leads (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#13086791)

gentoo recognized licensing issues with Xfree and they use X.org

Re:gentoo leads (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#13086893)

Sure Gentoo switched a while ago, but everyone is still compiling it so no one is actually using it yet.

Re:gentoo leads (2, Interesting)

makomk (752139) | more than 9 years ago | (#13087013)

Sure Gentoo switched a while ago, but everyone is still compiling it so no one is actually using it yet.

Very funny. Actually, X.Org recompiles aren't too bad (and yes, Gentoo does use it by default, as does Mandrake Linux or whatever it's called these days). The real killer is stuff like KDE - multi-day compile times, anyone?

Re:gentoo leads (1)

Willard B. Trophy (620813) | more than 9 years ago | (#13087044)

And x.org CVS under Gentoo has VIA Unichrome support, so my Mini-ITX box is happy. I guess Debian stable will get it in 2009, or so ...

Re:gentoo leads (1)

cpghost (719344) | more than 9 years ago | (#13087231)

The real killer is stuff like KDE - multi-day compile times, anyone?

Same here under FreeBSD. Qt/KDE recompiles are a huge time sink of a regular portupgrade -a run; esp. on mini-ITX. Same for firefox/mozilla/thunderbird updates! Worse is only a complete GNOME upgrade (yikes!).

But seriously, gcc sucks big time (speedwise) when compiling C++ code like Qt or KDE or Mozilla. Absolutely rock bottom performance. One ought to force GCC developers to use only slower (.le. 500 Mhz) CPUs for a while, so that they'll learn to value fast compile times for a change. :-(

Re:gentoo leads (1, Informative)

zr-rifle (677585) | more than 9 years ago | (#13087312)

This is going OT, but multi day compiles of KDE are actually a thing of the past.

Nowadays Gentoo encourages the use of split ebuilds that make for a much more efficient and less bloated desktop, not to mention faster compile times, since only explicitly requested stuff gets compiled and installed.

Gentoo KDE Split EBuilds HOWTO [gentoo.org]

How is support for radeon? (1)

Zweideutig (900045) | more than 9 years ago | (#13086792)

I am running Debian (PPC) on my Mac Mini which has a 32 MB ATI Radeon video (with DVI output.) If I switch to X.org (which I am using with Slackware on my laptops,) is the support of my radeon going to be enhanced, or is this just about the license?

Re:How is support for radeon? (-1, Troll)

hilaryduff (894727) | more than 9 years ago | (#13086848)

not trying to troll you here.. but why are you using linux when you have os x?

Re:How is support for radeon? (1)

demon (1039) | more than 9 years ago | (#13086971)

Perhaps he likes the licensing, or the flexibility better? Or he's just a Linux diehard? Why not? I run Linux on my G3 Pismo - you can like the hardware and not be a fan of the OS, you know.

heh, sid (2, Funny)

tehshen (794722) | more than 9 years ago | (#13086793)

Woody: Reach for the X.org!
Sid Phillips: Huh?
Woody: This system ain't big enough for the two of us!
Sid Phillips: What?
Woody: Somebody's poisoned the XFree86!
Sid Phillips: It's busted.
Woody: Who are you calling busted, Buster?
Sid Phillips: Huh?

(Toy story)

Re:heh, sid (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#13087237)

Time to step away from your computer and get out of the house, sonny.

wow (0, Troll)

fuck technology (896306) | more than 9 years ago | (#13086795)

welcome to like 3 years ago. who would ever use debian. what a piece of shit outdated distribution.

Re:wow (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#13086947)

Linus, RMS, ESR, Icaza ...

Comparisons? (3, Interesting)

MindNumbingOblivion (668443) | more than 9 years ago | (#13086803)

I realize I'm about to open a potential can of worms, but I really must know. I'm not that experienced with X, other than using GNOME or KDE. What are the pros and cons between XFree86 and X.Org? I think most of the boxen I've used were XFree86 based, and I am uncertain whether I have ever used one based on X.Org.

Re:Comparisons? (3, Informative)

stevey (64018) | more than 9 years ago | (#13086846)

The big pro is since the licensing change almost all Linux vendors have moved to X.org.

That means there's more momentum behind it, and a lot of work will be happening on the new codebase - in a more open way.

Technically, right now, there are some changes between the two but nothing major unless you're using one of the cards for which the driver has been updated.

Re:Comparisons? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#13087192)

For example translucent windows

Etch or Sid? (1)

phrostie (121428) | more than 9 years ago | (#13086807)

cool news, but it doesn't seem to be in Etch just yet.

Re:Etch or Sid? (1)

MasterOfMagic (151058) | more than 9 years ago | (#13086974)

After all of the package breakage is sorted out and it's been at least 14 days, then these packages will find their way into testing ('etch') if there are no critical bugs. You can check the status of this in the "excuses file" located on Debian's FTP site [debian.org] .

*mumble* (4, Funny)

Simon Kongshoj (581494) | more than 9 years ago | (#13086809)

....and on the same day I finally switched to Ubuntu. First time I read /. after installing Ubuntu, I see this! Typical. :-)

YES!!! X.Org! (0, Troll)

DarkYoshi (895118) | more than 9 years ago | (#13086813)

Okay, look at how nice the new visual effects for the desktop are on X.Org! Just wait for me to log out...

What? Why do I have to log out? Because it takes far too much of the CPU power I have.

Waits 30 more seconds for Debian to start...

THERE! LOOK! IT'S REAL TIME TRANSPARENCY! WOW! ISN'T IT AWESOME?!?!

Me: No. No, it isn't. In fact, I can't see a difference between KDE 3.4.1 with X.Org and KDE 3.1 with XFree86. ^^^ That was an exaggerated dialogue between my friend and I when he was showing me some useless visual effects on Gentoo with X.Org.

Utter crap (3, Interesting)

ardor (673957) | more than 9 years ago | (#13086852)

I have been using X.org for almost a year, and it works rock solid. It is MUCH faster than Xfree, and Debian still starts fairly quickly (X.org didn't lengthen the startup time at all).

As for the special effects: wrong, wrong, wrong. OSX shows how these effects can be useful. Also, the transition to a GL desktop will most likely be implemented in a new version of X.org which merges with Packard's work. A GL desktop actually helps the CPU by taking away the task of drawing stuff from it and having the GPU do it, which is the logical thing to do.

But I know, anything else than crude blitting is l4m3, hard core spartan X11 is l33t. Yeah....

Re:Utter crap (1)

MBCook (132727) | more than 9 years ago | (#13087039)

I've been on OS X for a few months and I agree with you about the special effects. Before that I thought those kind of effects were interesting but mostly useless.

But on OS X they are implemented nice. The way things zoom off the screen to show you your desktop or the slight transparency of sheets asking you questions are both nice. And the genie effect when you minimize a window or restore it is nice too and directs your eye to where it is going. Apple has done a great job.

Now that's not to say it can't be done bad. The screenshots of the latest beta of longhorn worry me. The way the titlebar area is mostly transparent was simple distracting looking. That was something that I would turn off almost instantly. I don't know if that was a showcase (not bad), or they intended to keep it that way (ug), but it was a problem.

Re:Utter crap (1)

alienw (585907) | more than 9 years ago | (#13087273)

How about just moving a window around? You get nice, smooth motion, without seeing stuff being redrawn and such. Compared to OSX, both Linux and Windows are in the stone ages.

Re:YES!!! X.Org! (1)

ZorinLynx (31751) | more than 9 years ago | (#13087365)

>486-DX4 100mhz
>28MB RAM
>1.7GB HD
>1MB SVGA

With a system like that, I'm not surprised things are a bit slow. Join this decade, dude. Even if you're poor, a low end Pentium II system you can probably get for $50 will trounce that and you'll be much happier. }:)

-Z

Debian Sid Moves to X.Org (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#13086836)

Note to author: the usage of "moves" is ambiguous in title. It is unclear, from context alone, if it is being used as a transitive or intransitive verb.

USE KOMPRESSOR GRAMMATIK!

X.Org vs. XFree86? (1)

findrac (899341) | more than 9 years ago | (#13086847)

X.Org supports accellerated dualhead with driver radeon(4) with pseudo-xinerama (mergedfb). XFree86, forget about it. And with just single head, using same driver.. Enemy Territory is now playable, was not in XFree86 and forced r200 ATi users to ATi propietary Closed Source. I'd say this is a major improvement. Forget about Composite extension, it's still EXPERIMENTAL in 6.8.2.

Re:X.Org vs. XFree86? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#13087082)

> ... forget about it.

the mafia reads slashdot now too?

nvidia drivers? (2, Interesting)

WWWWolf (2428) | more than 9 years ago | (#13086849)

So... anyone yet tried how well this works with the NVIDIA drivers (specifically, using Debian's own nvidia packages - nvidia-glx and nvidia-kernel-source through make-kpkg)?

Anyone tried yet? How's things?

Applications can be broken for all I care, but I need my OpenGL =)

Re:nvidia drivers? (1)

findrac (899341) | more than 9 years ago | (#13086875)

nvidia-glx and other dependencies of that are still in Debian Experimental repository. So, they are done but not in Unstable just yet. Maybe after tonight?

Re:nvidia drivers? (1)

Hal XP (807364) | more than 9 years ago | (#13087236)

The version already in unstable (1.0.7174-3) works fine (or no worse) with the xorg packages. There's actually even a warning attached to the experimental version (1.0.7667-1). The latest nvidia binary package supposedly does NOT support older (legacy) nvidia-based card like the TNT. Since all I have is a TNT-based card, I've decided to stick with 7174.

Re:nvidia drivers? (1)

bioglaze (767105) | more than 9 years ago | (#13086881)

I'm using it with drivers downloaded from NVIDIA and acceleration works fine.

Re:nvidia drivers? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#13087133)

Same here, everything's workin' ok.

Re:nvidia drivers? (1)

jascat (602034) | more than 9 years ago | (#13087035)

I'm on my brand spankin' new debian install with xorg going and the latest nvidia drivers. The only things I had to change in the transition from XFree86 to X.org was to change the driver for the keyboard from "Keyboard" to "kbd". Everything else was standard with the nvidia install.

Under the hood ... (5, Interesting)

Ezdaloth (675945) | more than 9 years ago | (#13086866)

with all the good work on tranparancy, and nice effects, i'm still missing one big under-the-hood change: use something like DRM/DRI for all 2d graphics too! (similar to directfb, windows, maxosX, etc)

Currently there are hundreds of context-switches between the x-server and your applications just to draw things. Windows doens't have that (since w2k anyways) and it increased windows' graphics performance quite some bit. MacOS has quartz extreme 2d now, and it increased their performance. This really slows things down. :-(

I think before more fancy effects are added that only make the whole thing slower are added, these under-the-hood optimizations should be done!

Re:Under the hood ... (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#13086910)

It's allready in X.Org CVS, new EXA accelleration. Working in driver sis(4) and soon to be in radeon(4). Let's just hope EXA for radeon(4) gets into X.Org 6.9/7.0. It's mentioned here: http://xorg.freedesktop.org/wiki/ChangesSince68 [freedesktop.org]

Re:Under the hood ... (1)

osho_gg (652984) | more than 9 years ago | (#13086924)

I am not sure that you are familiar with the work going on now for creating new acceleration for X.org.

http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/06/28/124525 8&tid=104&tid=130 [slashdot.org]

This aims to do exactly what you are talking about and some more (as I understand it).

Osho

Maybe it is true... (1)

ratta (760424) | more than 9 years ago | (#13087284)

but none will do this now, as the whole desktop is moving towards something completely D3/OpenGL based, like Xgl, so the problem does not exist anymore.

XFree86 is dieing... (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#13086911)

Debian & Slashdot confirms it...

_Anonymouse Cow_Hurd

that x.org stuff is alright. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#13086915)

I run debian _unstable_ (because IDGAF) and have had that xorg stuff running for quite some time now. I wouldn't say It's faster but it didn't bitch more then XFree86 during/after installation. As a matter of fact /etc/X11/xorg.conf and /etc/X11/XF86config-4 look exactly the same.

mirror? (1)

SkunkPussy (85271) | more than 9 years ago | (#13087027)

server seems to be slashdotted and this [nyud.net] doesn't get it yet (for me)... anyone got a mirror?

Re:mirror? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#13087078)

Like every other slashdot story, it's mirrored at goddamn mirrordot.

CLICKY AND READY [mirrordot.org]

Full Article Text (1)

rsrsharma (769904) | more than 9 years ago | (#13087117)

Debian Unstable gets X.org

Posted by Steve [slashdot.org] in the Debian [slashdot.org] section on Wed 13 Jul 2005 at 17:10

Debian has now made the transition to the X.org installation of the X11 Window system. If you're running sid/etch you should be able to upgrade now.

The transition had previously been on hold until Sarge was released - as it was judged too major a change to add to the release at the last minute.

Now Sarge is out Debian development continues and one of the most anticipated changes is upon us. (Other changes are also occurring such as the C++ ABI upgrade).

Before starting the upgrade to X.org it's important to do two things:

  • Switch to a console as a paranoid safety measure. If something goes wrong, or X gets restarted you don't want to leave your upgrade in an inconsistent state.
  • Take a backup of /etc/X11 in case you experience problems.

The backup can be something as simple as running:

cp -R /etc/X11 /etc/X11-old

The upgrade will attempt to automatically migrate your XFree86 configuration file to /etc/X11/xorg.conf, and in my case worked perfectly. Still better safe than sorry!

Once you've done those two things you should be ready to proceed. As always the first thing to do is update your list of available packages:

apt-get update

If you wish you can use aptitude instead, I know that I should promote that more.

With that out of the way the installation is started by running:

apt-get install xserver-xorg

This gave me the following output:

The following extra packages will be installed: libxau6 libxdmcp6 lsb-base x11-common xfree86-common xserver-common Suggested packages: configlet-frontends libglide2 Recommended packages: mdetect xresprobe The following packages will be REMOVED: xserver-xfree86 The following NEW packages will be installed: libxau6 libxdmcp6 lsb-base x11-common xserver-xorg The following packages will be upgraded: xfree86-common xserver-common 2 upgraded, 5 newly installed, 1 to remove and 14 not upgraded. Need to get 7437kB of archives.

As you can see the xserver-xfree86 package is scheduled for removal, as the two conflict.

After downloading the packages from the network you'll be asked which server you wish to run by default by debconf. Choose the xserver-org - as the other server will be removed.

That was literally all I had to do. There were several messages displayed about migrating the server's configuration which appeared to be completely successful:

xserver-xorg config warning: migrating xserver-xfree86 templates to xserver-xorg.

Other diagnostic messages also seemed to indicate the upgrade was occuring without any problems:

Adding system startup for /etc/init.d/x11-common ... /etc/rcS.d/S70x11-common -> ../init.d/x11-common update-rc.d: /etc/init.d/xfree86-common exists during rc.d purge (continuing) Removing any system startup links for /etc/init.d/xfree86-common ... /etc/rcS.d/S70xfree86-common

At this point the upgrade was complete, and the only thing left to do was to stop the currently running old installation of xserver-xfree86. The quick way to do this would be to simply reboot, although I wanted to do it manually to make sure it worked as expected.

I use the IceWM [debian.org] window manager with the gnome display manager [debian.org] handling the logins - so to stop X I ran:

/etc/init.d/gdm stop

This step will differ if you're using KDE, in which case you'll need to use "/etc/init.d/kdm stop". If you're using another login manager such as wdm, or xdm you'll need to adjust accordingly.

Once that's done you can restart the manager by repeating the command with start instead of stop:

/etc/init.d/gdm start

Everything came up as expected, and the upgrade was complete.

You can test that you have the correct versoin of X running by issuing the following command from the console:

X -version

The output should look something like this:

X Window System Version 6.8.2 (Debian 6.8.2.dfsg.1-1 20050709222802 david@squee.verizon.net) Release Date: 9 February 2005 X Protocol Version 11, Revision 0, Release 6.8.2 Build Operating System: Linux 2.6.11-1-686 i686 [ELF] Current Operating System: Linux mystery 2.6.11-1-k7 #1 Mon Jun 20 21:26:23 MDT 2005 i686 Build Date: 09 July 2005 Before reporting problems, check http://wiki.X.Org [x.org] to make sure that you have the latest version. Module Loader present OS Kernel: Linux version 2.6.11-1-k7 (dannf@firetheft) (gcc version 3.3.6 (Debian 1:3.3.6-6)) #1 Mon Jun 20 21:26:23 MDT 2005

After the upgrade you should make sure you don't have any problems, and then see if you need to tidy up any obsolete packages. I discovered I also no longer needed the libxft1 package by using deborphan to find obsolete packages [debian-adm...ration.org] .

The upgrade was painless, and things look even better than before. It's hard to know if I should be expecting a speedup or not, so I'm not going to claim massive gains.

Synaptics driver? (1)

adriantam (566025) | more than 9 years ago | (#13087041)

I am using a notebook, so, anyone have experience using X.org with synaptics (i.e. the driver for touchpad in notebook)?
My XFree86 works very well with synaptics indeed.

Re:Synaptics driver? (1)

palmem (845119) | more than 9 years ago | (#13087182)

I am running Gentoo with xorg

The touchpad on my Dell Inspiron5150 works OK
Sometimes it is unaccurate

Re:Synaptics driver? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#13087313)

Works great in Ubuntu under X.org for me. Never had any problems with it.

Re:Synaptics driver? (1)

DrYokomohoyo (872784) | more than 9 years ago | (#13087363)

The synaptics driver is well supported with xorg. I have an alps touchpad on my pavilion zv5000 and all its features are supported.

Re:Synaptics driver? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#13087530)

I'm running Gentoo/X.org on an Asus laptop and the synaptics driver works great for me. I can even use some gestures on it to get middle and right mouse clicks without using the buttons. It also supports vertical and horizontal scrolling via the pad.

Congratulations Debian community (1)

Pecisk (688001) | more than 9 years ago | (#13087042)

It seems like you have cracked your deadlock which was more or less Sarge release (of coarse lot of Debianists will claim that it was just how it was to be - and I partly agree with them). There are lot of things will change in Debian soon - as Mandrake and co are planning to weight in with creation of enteprise level distro based on it and lot of development which was held back after Sarge release is really happening now - and I excited to see my second favorite distro to move forward faster and faster.

Smoothest major upgrade I've ever done (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#13087052)

I did the upgrade last week, and it's been no problem at all. I've had to hold back xbase-clients and xutils because they want to pull in libgluc2 (with the new C++ ABI), and I have software that uses the old stuff, but the vast majority of it is running X.org.

Runs real sweet, too.

No problems on a laptop or 4 desktops. Just use aptitude and hold back anything that causes conflicts.

Oh, and I didn't make any safety backups at all. Crazy me.

Broken Packages (1)

InfiniteWisdom (530090) | more than 9 years ago | (#13087064)

Take a look at the jump in the number of release-critical bugs [debian.org] ! Is this all related to X.org or is there some other major change in the works?

Re:Broken Packages (3, Informative)

xenocide2 (231786) | more than 9 years ago | (#13087536)

That would be the transition in the C++ ABI (ie a transition to gcc 4). That would be an excellent reason to keep with testing rather than unstable.

./ed (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#13087092)

This is the Mirror.dot version [mirrordot.org]

Well, I think (1, Funny)

urbster1 (871298) | more than 9 years ago | (#13087095)

only one thing needs to be said: finally!

Wait a moment... (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#13087162)

... Does it run on linux?

Does it improve the quality of my porno movies?

KDE 3.4 users (Alioth packages) BEWARE! (3, Informative)

andersa (687550) | more than 9 years ago | (#13087257)

The changes has broken the experimental packages of KDE 3.4.1 on Alioth because of unfulfilled dependencies.

If you use those packages you should hold off with this upgrade for a while as it will cause many of the core KDE packages to uninstall breaking KDE completely.

Sid only now runs X.org (1)

wot.narg (829093) | more than 9 years ago | (#13087333)

What do you mean sid only now runs X.org?

My sid has been running x.org for a good 6 months :)

Woohoo! (1)

uncreativenick (869845) | more than 9 years ago | (#13087347)

This means I can stop using Debuntu! (debian with some ubuntu thrown in) Thanks Debian X strike force!

CowboyHat linux had that awhile back (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#13087361)

CowboyHat linux (the distro named after Cowboy Neal and his wife Red Hat) and Fedora have had this for ages. What's the big deal?

Is X.org in some way tied into nvidia lockups? (3, Interesting)

Sark666 (756464) | more than 9 years ago | (#13087430)

I have debian sid installed with Xfree still without issue. I've always just installed the nvidia binaries from their site with no problems. I also wanted to check out ubuntu and installed it and still have no issues with nvidia binaries, not a single crash/lockup.

However, a lot of people seem to have this dreaded X lockup with nvidia binaries, and just about all of them were using Xorg. This can either be a complete freeze, or the pointer still moving but nothing is responsive. Usually you can still kill X but not always. This has also happened to my brother who was frustrated with mandrake and packages, so I recommended ubuntu to him. I went over to his house installed it and everything seemed fine. Then he had a lock up an hour in. Then another. The weird thing is, it doesn't usually happen during playing say an opengl game, but usually on the desktop by just moving the pointer quickly.

He never had these issues with mandrake 10. I installed various versions of the nvidia binary including the one he used to use with mandrake but all the same. I looked at the specs of mdk 10 (2.6.3 Xfree86). I'm not sure if it's a kernel issue, Xfree, or some other thing like (apci or apm?)

The logs give an error (i believe nvrm xid error) but nothing that would lead one to a solution.

Please don't reply to this saying this isn't a tech support forum. I've searched many forums trying to help my brother. At nvnews.net there are a couple of threads that go on for about 20 pages with many users having this problem with no solution in sight. I just thought I'd take a stab at the /. Maybe one of you have dealt with the problem and actually solved it.

Re:Is X.org in some way tied into nvidia lockups? (2, Informative)

potHead42 (188922) | more than 9 years ago | (#13087497)

I've experienced this problem too (frozen screen with pointer still moving), but since I disabled acceleration for the render extension it went away. All you have to do is add the following line (or change it if it's already there) in the device section of your nvidia card in xorg.conf:

Option "RenderAccel" "false"

Also make sure you've disabled the composite extension, as it's still unstable.

hth
Load More Comments
Slashdot Login

Need an Account?

Forgot your password?