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Shadowrun for the 360

Zonk posted more than 9 years ago | from the twitch-froth-twitch-twitch dept.

Role Playing (Games) 77

TeamXbox has the news that (squee) there may be a new Shadowrun videogame coming to market with the Xbox 360. From the article: "I have worked on many projects, ranging from PC games to console, FPS to role-playing. Right now, I am animating for an Xbox 2 project called Shadowrun. It's a first-person shooter based on an old paper RPG of the same name from a couple decades ago." Sounds like fun....but an FPS? Where's my SR MMOG?

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FPS? (4, Insightful)

BlackCobra43 (596714) | more than 9 years ago | (#13113939)

The RPG on the Genesis was so good (honestly, I'm surprised there wasn't a sequel sooner), why change a winning formula?

Re:FPS? (2, Funny)

koi88 (640490) | more than 9 years ago | (#13114319)


Wow, XBox 360 will get a FPS!
That's so exciting! I have to run to the shop and preorder one of those!
Stay tuned as more advert... uh, news emerge.

Re:FPS? (1)

Qzukk (229616) | more than 9 years ago | (#13114366)

Personally, I preferred the SNES version, except for the "hacking" parts. The genesis version of hacking was far more interesting than playing ICE minesweeper.

Re:FPS? (1)

grumpygrodyguy (603716) | more than 9 years ago | (#13117058)

The RPG on the Genesis was so good (honestly, I'm surprised there wasn't a sequel sooner), why change a winning formula?

So true! I just finished playing it yesterday for the first time, and I'm so glad I found it! Great writing, gameplay, pacing, everything...masterful. Oh and from what I've read on the fan-sites the SNES version is not worth checking out, you want the Genesis version.

Sounds like fun....but an FPS? Where's my SR MMOG?

Don't worry about the MMOG =), try this baby out! [the-underdogs.org] You won't regret it.

Re:FPS? (1)

Wilson_6500 (896824) | more than 9 years ago | (#13117149)

I'd be willing to risk souring my memories of the SNES version of Shadowrun for the off chance that we might see a second Deus Ex--I mean a second Deus Ex that doesn't suck.

RPG != FPS (1)

vethia (900978) | more than 9 years ago | (#13113942)

That just seems somehow wrong. Next thing we know, we'll have Vampire: The FPS, out in stores everywhere!

Oh wait, they called it Hunter for the PS2...

Re:RPG != FPS (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#13113976)

I wonder if it will be the Deus Ex type of FPS, or the brainless Halo type.

Re:RPG != FPS (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#13114845)

You can always tell the people who never made it planetside.

After failing to fight their way off the ship for about ten minutes, they declare the game "brainless" and never play it again, choosing instead to mock those who do.

Those who know the pleasure of slipping away from the crash site, sniping at aliens while hiding from the enemy ships down by the waterfall... they understand the thought that was put into the game.

Plus, the crazy shit you can do with the Warthog ("you mean the Puma?") would be more than enough to make it a great game even if it had nothing else going for it.

Re:RPG != FPS (1)

KDR_11k (778916) | more than 9 years ago | (#13117013)

Have you tried negotiating with the Covenant?

Re:RPG != FPS (1)

Danse (1026) | more than 9 years ago | (#13121310)

After failing to fight their way off the ship for about ten minutes, they declare the game "brainless" and never play it again, choosing instead to mock those who do.

Sorry, but it all came down to driving around and shooting stuff and nothing more really. There was no real puzzle, no mystery to solve, no one to talk to, and no way to influence anything besides blowing stuff up. That's what they mean by brainless.

Re:RPG != FPS (1)

JimmehAH (817552) | more than 9 years ago | (#13114020)

Do you mean this [vampirebloodlines.com] or are you talking about some other vampire based RPG?

Re:RPG != FPS (2, Insightful)

vethia (900978) | more than 9 years ago | (#13114103)

Bloodlines isn't a FPS; it's exactly what I wish they would do for Shadowrun, which is an RPG-style video game based on a pencil-and-paper RPG. The game in question, Vampire: The Masquerade (and now Vampire: The Requiem) is put out by White Wolf [white-wolf.com] , the subject of the recent semi-scandal regarding pay-to-play for their live-action game rules. Basically, if there's going to be an adaptation of a pen-and-paper RPG to the video game medium, I'd much prefer it be something like Bloodlines (which I hear is a good RPG, though I haven't played it personally) as opposed to the FPS style Shadowrun game mentioned above or White Wolf's earlier FPS that was based on another one of their games (Hunter: The Reckoning).

Re:RPG != FPS (1)

JimmehAH (817552) | more than 9 years ago | (#13114213)

It's a good RPG and a solid FPS*.
Depends how you choose to play it.

*Though it runs poorly and has plenty of bugs.

Re:RPG != FPS (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#13114313)

I'm thinking there's one of two things going on here:

1) There's another Hunter game I haven't seen (Hunter: The Reckoning (XB & GC), Hunter: The Reckoning Redeemer (XB), Hunter: The Reckoning Wayward (PS2) are the ones I know of.)
or
2) You have a very unique opinion of what constitutes an FPS.

See, FPS implies a first-person perspective. You know: Doom, Quake, Half-Life, Halo -- that sort of thing. The two I've played (H:TR and Redeemer) were both 3rd person perspectives, and all the screenshots I've seen of the other (Wayward) imply the same thing. (And your comment about it being for the PS2 seems to imply that that's the one you're talking about -- unless that first point I mentioned holds true. In which case I apologise for the snarky tone of this post.) They're Diablo/Gauntlet-ish hack and slash games without much of an RPG element, yes, but an FPS they are not.

(And, for the record: I don't own either of those, and don't really care about them. A friend I have loves them, and made me play at least a bit of them to try and convince me they were as good as he said.)

Re:RPG != FPS (1)

vethia (900978) | more than 9 years ago | (#13114372)

Pardon my wording.

The game I was referring to was in fact Wayward, and as you pointed out, it's not a FPS game like Halo or Doom. However, as you also pointed out, it's not much in the RPG department. Call me a purist, but I hate seeing pen-and-paper RPGs translated into mediums that preserve so little of the original game intent. Yeah, it's cool to have video games based on the same concepts, but I wish they were a little more true to the role-playing style.

Re:RPG != FPS (1)

Golias (176380) | more than 9 years ago | (#13114898)

I had no idea the Hunter series was supposed to be derived from "Vampire."

I just figured they were fun scrolling shooters.

On that level, they were terrific games. The only downside was that multi-play could result in getting your teammates "stuck", due to the limitations created by keeping all the characters on the same screen together. Some of the characters simply had to stay moving to stay alive in that game, so any unnatural limitations to movement always sucked.

Re:RPG != FPS (2, Informative)

vethia (900978) | more than 9 years ago | (#13114999)

Hunter isn't directly derived from Vampire, but it is a video game adaptation of a roleplaying game by the same company who puts out V:tM. The company is White Wolf [white-wolf.com] and the game is Hunter: the Reckoning. Basically the games are set in the same world and can be used in crossovers as antagonists for one another, but it's also easy to play either one on its own.

Re:RPG != FPS (1)

Txiasaeia (581598) | more than 9 years ago | (#13114381)

As long as you don't mind roleplaying a tank with no social skills whatsoever (because if you don't, it'll be next to impossible to finish the second half of the game), I'm sure you'll love Bloodlines!

Re:RPG != FPS (1)

Pxtl (151020) | more than 9 years ago | (#13114531)

Yes, because the perspective that the game is presented tells you everything you need to know about the gameplay. Genre jumping games do not exist - Deus Ex was just your imagination.

I'm not saying that this title won't be another run-n-gun or stealth title - but marketeers call anything from first person an FPS, weather it is an adventure, action, strategy, whatever. Likewise, putting a game in behind-view doesn't make it an "adventure" title. Two of the best RPGs I ever played took place entirely in spaceships, with most characters simply being images on the communicator screen.

Personally, I prefer when advancement and adventure based games let you handle combat yourself, rather than issuing spells and commands. I got a lot more out of Star Control II than the comparable Final Fantasy titles of the time, and I'm sure many Tactics and X-Com fans vouch for how much nicer RPG-style attribute-based combat is in a tactical environment, even if it no longer follows the FF1-style conventions of an RPG.

Re:RPG != FPS (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#13117530)

Yup, iirc, Morrowind could have easily been called an fps by some people.

FPS no! RPG or MMORPG yes! (1)

glowimperial (705397) | more than 9 years ago | (#13113979)

I have almost no interest in playing a Shadowrun FPS, but I'd rather see Shadowrun licensed as a MMO or RPG more than any other license. Maybe if we are lucky they will do something like Neocron, only with much higher production values.

Re:FPS no! RPG or MMORPG yes! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#13114014)

world in which elves, dwarfs, orcs, trolls, and vampires melt with modern weapons and Matrix-like technology for a man meets magic and machine experience.

Upon further review, I don't think i'll be keeping an eye on this gem.

*cringes*

Re:FPS no! RPG or MMORPG yes! (1)

grumpygrodyguy (603716) | more than 9 years ago | (#13117177)

Upon further review, I don't think i'll be keeping an eye on this gem.

*cringes*


At first glance it may sound lame, but it's actually very tastefully done in the Shadowrun universe. I'm usually one of those "no fantasy in my science-fiction, and no science-fiction in my fantasy thankyou" types, but shadowrun is the exception.

Re:FPS no! RPG or MMORPG yes! (1)

Danse (1026) | more than 9 years ago | (#13121267)

I'm usually one of those "no fantasy in my science-fiction, and no science-fiction in my fantasy thankyou" types, but shadowrun is the exception.

I felt the same way when I first read about Shadowrun, way back. It sounded ridiculous to me. But once I checked it out, read a few books and stuff, I realized how well they really pulled it off. It's great setting for a game.

Re:FPS no! RPG or MMORPG yes! (1)

CDarklock (869868) | more than 9 years ago | (#13114059)

I think Shadowrun is just too much stuff to fit into one box.

Think about it: what makes Shadowrun cool? The computer aspect, the cybernetic aspect, the "awakened" races, the futuristic setting, the megacorp environment, the sprawl and its attendant squalor, the magic... the list just doesn't stop. You simply couldn't make a Shadowrun game that really lived up to the title. Most of the cool stuff won't fit, so you have to pick one or two things to focus your game, and then you just handwave the rest.

Unfortunately, this guarantees that most of the people who see "Shadowrun" on the box and buy the game will feel like their favorite parts got handwaved -- they'll appreciate what they get for a week, and then they'll clue into the fact that there's an awful lot they *didn't* get.

Shadowrun is also eminently twinkable, so I don't really see a MMOG in its future. It just doesn't translate well. At the gaming table, you have real bonds with real people that make a difference in how you behave, but online -- it's all just pixels, and there's no GM to bring the wrath of the heavens down on you when you're being a dick.

Re:FPS no! RPG or MMORPG yes! (1)

Nytewynd (829901) | more than 9 years ago | (#13114203)

I don't know about this. I think almost everything *could* be done properly. Look how well WoW was implemented. If a development studio did all of the work that Blizzard did on WoW, I think they could build the right game.

I don't think there is anything inherently difficult to implement about Shadowrun. It's just a lot of stuff.
  • The computer aspect would be something like an instanced dungeon.
  • The cybernetics are really just armor or buffs.
  • The awakened races have to be balanced properly. I think Vampire was one of these, and I loved playing one. The set back was he was practically invincible. He could turn to freaking mist whenever he wanted.
  • Futuristic setting is easy, but too many developers go for the burnt down, post-apocolyptic city look. Why not a Bladerunner look?
  • Everything else is just a matter of good content design and class balance.


The question is really if a game company wants to take this on knowing that to do it correctly, it will be a minimum of 3-5 years of development before they see a dime from it. The alternative is to market the Shadowrun name and turn out a steaming pile of crap that tarnishes the game for everyone. I can see the FPS idea going down that path. Great, I get to be a half-orc with a huge gun. What's the point? I don't want Quake: Shadowrun Edition. I want the real thing.

Re:FPS no! RPG or MMORPG yes! (1)

CDarklock (869868) | more than 9 years ago | (#13114932)

> I don't think there is anything inherently
> difficult to implement about Shadowrun.

Oh, I'm not saying "you can't build a decking simulation". People have done that. I'm not saying "you can't build a cybernetics system". People have done that, too.

What I *am* saying is that it's effectively impossible to get all of this stuff under one roof and effectively balanced. Pen and paper RPGs rely on a sense of fair play, which computers cannot enforce the way social groups can.

Re:FPS no! RPG or MMORPG yes! (1)

Nytewynd (829901) | more than 9 years ago | (#13114066)

I played Neocron with the huge expectation that it would be like Shadowrun. Boy was I wrong. It looked like someones Computer Science project. It was all right, but nothing like I hoped it would be.

A real Shadowrun MMORPG would be the best thing to happen in a long time. It will only work if they add in every aspect of the RPG. I miss that game since I don't play tabletop anymore. To me, it was one of the most intriguing RPGs of all time, and that includes D&D.

Re:FPS no! RPG or MMORPG yes! (1)

PhilHibbs (4537) | more than 9 years ago | (#13114295)

Personally I would be *much* more interested in a Cyberpunk MMORPG. Shadowrun always had too much going on, I don't really feel the need to play fantasy and science-fiction simultaneously. Plus there aren't supposed to be that many shadowrunners in the world, but there are a lot of punks in Night City. Maybe APB will fulfill my desires in that direction, but without the cyberwear.

Re:FPS no! RPG or MMORPG yes! (1)

Elsebet (797203) | more than 9 years ago | (#13116366)

You might like Anarchy Online [anarchyonline.com] however their Shadowlands expansion strayed heavily from the sci-fi into the fantasy realm and the entire game suffered, in my opinion. I played the game off and on for years but could never truly get into it after being forced to go through the content in that expansion.

To hit level 220 you pretty much were forced to xp in the Shadowlands zones, although they did add shadowknowledge (SK) gain from killing aliens for the latest expansion Alien Invasion. That was a more recent patch and I'm not sure how it has effected the game as I've been away from it for months.

However the base game has a cyberpunk feel, with "the grid" which is your travel option, actual flight in game with personal planes, war-torn futuristic looking cities, etc. You also install implants which boost your skills and statistics along with the normal armor/weapon loot. The classes are more sci-fi in title but do similar RPG things (doctor = healer, enforcer = tank, etc).

The base game (with no expansions) is entirely free for new accounts so it's worth checking out here [anarchy-online.com] . Plus they use bittorrent for downloading!

Re:FPS no! RPG or MMORPG yes! (1)

BDZ (632292) | more than 9 years ago | (#13115337)

When I saw this headline on the main page I was quite excited thinking it was going to lead to an announcement of a Shadowrun MMO finally.

I really wish one would come around. I loved the pen & paper game. I ran a campaign for years and years, but sadly that ended several years ago and I haven't been able to find or start a new campaign as I live far from my players now.

I don't know if an MMO would completely slack my thirst to play Shadowrun again. Probably now, as the MMO's I've played while fun weren't the same as a good pen and paper game. Still, it would be very, very nice.

I don't think I'd be that into a Shadowrun FPS. While it might be a bit of fun it will be missing so much of the game...Not to mention completely lacking in any social factor.

Hopefully some day a Shadowrun MMO will be made.

You people and your short-term memories... (2, Insightful)

Alkaiser (114022) | more than 9 years ago | (#13114129)

This was announced and canned like 5 years ago. Microsoft had the rights to Shadowrun and had announced a game called Shadowrun: Assassins.

The game was *gasp* an FPS.

About a year and a half into production, Microsoft canned it. The game starred a scantily clad heroine, and basically looked nothing like Shadowrun. This is probably that game.

Re:You people and your short-term memories... (1)

BDZ (632292) | more than 9 years ago | (#13115228)

Why was this modded as 'Troll'?

The post's author passed on some interesting information that was entirely pertainant to the discussion. And did so without any negativity or attack of anyone. How is this a troll?

I hope I get to meta-Mod this particular mod.

Re:You people and your short-term memories... (1)

DeadScreenSky (666442) | more than 9 years ago | (#13116599)

I am not sure, but they did post misinformation. Even the blurb clearly states that it is a game for the next Xbox, which would not have gone into development five years ago. Maybe the mods felt it was made up information just to troll? Overrated makes more sense to me, but it's not like there were any links to back up this fairly obscure information.

Too caught up in the semantics... (1)

Alkaiser (114022) | more than 9 years ago | (#13118854)

to bother getting the point, I see.

The point was, that it's likely that this was a continuation of the game Microsoft started and canned years ago.

It's kind of hard to find a link seeing as how Shadowrun the pen & paper RPG, Shadowrun the SNES game and Shadowrun the Genesis game all have more active fan communities and such, and therefore come up first. The fact that the game has assassins in it doesn't help my cause either. Overrated, Troll, whatever, it's all wrong. That's not misinformation and it's not trolling.

But here you go [dumpshock.com] , ye of little faith and memory:

One upon a time (1)

hotdot (607599) | more than 9 years ago | (#13114131)

Me and a couple of others guys tried to make a mod for quake3 a while ago and asked for microsoft blessings (cause we knew they had bought all FASA rights) and they told us they did not want to cause they were working on a tentative title, that was in 2000. Since then i have waited.... maybe they stole every idea we exposed on our web site at the time, we will see...

Re:One upon a time (1)

Danse (1026) | more than 9 years ago | (#13121342)

According to another post, they were working on a title called Shadowrun: Assassins around that time, but it got canned.

Excitement, then disappointment (1)

brkello (642429) | more than 9 years ago | (#13114190)

The shadowrun RPG was so much fun. It had an interesting story and some challenging puzzles. I thought...wow, maybe I need to get a 360. But a FPS...thanks, I'll pass. I still feel FPS are much better suited for computers. Even with a keyboard and mouse on console...it's not really set up for that. Consoles are for leaning back on my recliner and using a controller.

Re:Excitement, then disappointment (1)

Cornflake917 (515940) | more than 9 years ago | (#13118696)

I recall Shadowrun as one of my favorite SNES games. I also remember deleting the parent's (hes my brother) saved game on accident. Oh man, was he pissed! I just hope he doesn't remember.

Whoodathunkit? (1)

MixMasterPsych (901284) | more than 9 years ago | (#13114196)

Not meant to be cheap stab at MS. By golly. Another FPS. On the Xbox. Inconceivable.

You kill my father. Prepare to die. (2, Funny)

vethia (900978) | more than 9 years ago | (#13114216)

You keep using that word. I do no think it means what you think it means.

Re:You kill my father. Prepare to die. (1)

Nytewynd (829901) | more than 9 years ago | (#13114241)

Everytime we do the Rend part of the UBRS instance in WoW I chuckle. After you kill a certain amount of his guards, he /yells "Inconceivable".

Re:Whoodathunkit? (2, Funny)

Blakey Rat (99501) | more than 9 years ago | (#13115261)

For something that's not meant to be a cheap stab, that's a pretty cheap stab.

I like my Xbox because it has the biggest selection of adventure games even made for a console. I bet you didn't see that one coming.

(True, it would be nice if it had some flight sims that weren't "arcade"-y, and some experimental Katamari Damarcy games would be appreciated, but I think the Xbox has a pretty good balance of games, overall.)

Re:Whoodathunkit? (1)

MixMasterPsych (901284) | more than 9 years ago | (#13116033)

"I like my Xbox because it has the biggest selection of adventure games even made for a console." I'm curious as to what adventure games you mean. I'm genuinely curious, not being snide. Now, I don't have anything against the Xbox, as it's never come and kicked my cat or anything, heh..but I have a PS2 and GC. THe Xbox has never interested me though. Most anything worth playing on it would be better played on the PC, and that seems so with it's most popular games being the FPS's (I'm not a mouse/keybaord freak either, I don't kind dual sticks). This may be a result of my disinterest in Xbox, it seems there is a far wider range of games adequately filling *most* every genre, on other consoles. I own 1 FPS (was burned out on them a few years ago when I burned out on FPS's). Okay the Xbox does have a couple good RPG's, Fable and Jade Empire, KOTOR. Though, I'm not much into Fantasy RPG in the vein of Baldur's Gate, Fable. I'll give Xbox credit, they've made thier footprint, it just seems that it was made stepping where the PC has already been and does better, FPSland. Well, and they get the multi-platform games too.

Re:Whoodathunkit? (1)

Blakey Rat (99501) | more than 9 years ago | (#13116598)

Beyond Good and Evil (arguably a platformer), Syberia, Syberia II, the new Myst game, one called Broken Sword which I haven't played.

Re:Whoodathunkit? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#13118580)

Ya.. a nice amount of adventure games. All which were originally developed for the PC. Well aside from Beyond Good and Evil, but that also got a PC release and was released on all 3 consoles.

That's why the Xbox 360 is last on my list (1)

LKM (227954) | more than 9 years ago | (#13114389)

I think I won't have to buy an Xbox 360 for a long time. Seriously, they finally do a sequel to Shadowrun, and it's gonna be a freaking FPS. As if there was a lack of these on the Xbox. And as if they were actually enjoyable using dual analog sticks.

I'm glad Nintendo has its own console. If they were making Xbox games, we'd probably have a Mario FPS and Project Gotham Mario Kart.

Re:That's why the Xbox 360 is last on my list (1)

incom (570967) | more than 9 years ago | (#13116498)

Never know, it could be a dues ex style RPG, so it could be both FPS and RPG. It would make a lame and dissapointing traditional FPS though.

Yes nintendo would never do something like that... (1)

DoctaWatson (38667) | more than 9 years ago | (#13116859)

Lord knows they never turned a beloved 2d franchise into a FPS. [metroid.com]

Re:Yes nintendo would never do something like that (1)

LKM (227954) | more than 9 years ago | (#13118285)

Lord knows they never turned a beloved 2d franchise into a FPS.

Actually, Metroid isn't an FPS. It's more of a First Person Adventure, and it's very true to the original (claustrophobic, lonely) Metroid games - more so than, say, Metroid Fusion, even though Fusion is 2D.

Re:Yes nintendo would never do something like that (1)

cornface (900179) | more than 9 years ago | (#13120573)

I've seen an astounding number of people say "claustrophobic and lonely" to describe Metroid in the last couple of weeks.

I assume someone mentioned it on a gaming site somewhere and has been parroted from message board to message board.

Metroid was no more "claustrophobic and lonely" than any one of the other platform/shooters that came out around the same time. It just seemed cooler because you had a sweet powersuit and could roll into a ball that shot bombs. Compare/contrast to Kid Icarus where you were a stupid flying loser who died all the time.

Re:Yes nintendo would never do something like that (1)

LKM (227954) | more than 9 years ago | (#13121784)

I've seen an astounding number of people say "claustrophobic and lonely" to describe Metroid in the last couple of weeks.

Uhm. That's because Metroid is claustrophobic and lonely. I haven't read any articles about Metroid in the last month, so I have no idea who else classified it in that way, but if anyone did, it's because it's the truth.

It's simply not true that other platform shooters from that time were similar. Games like Contra, Turrican or Mega Man were very different. Metroid was dark, you played it underground, most of the time in small caves. The music was haunting, and there were not many enemies. Those that were there were mostly slow and silent. Gameplay was rather slow, too, compared to frantic games like Contra.

It's very different from the other platform shooters from that time.

(By the way, I was curious about your remarkt. Google shows one page which calls Metroid "claustrobhobic and lonely" [google.de] , and it's a post from the gamefaqs forum. Haven't read that.)

Re:Yes nintendo would never do something like that (1)

cornface (900179) | more than 9 years ago | (#13127023)

Results 1 - 10 of about 433 for metroid claustrophobic

Results 1 - 10 of about 22,000 for metroid lonely.

Results 1 - 10 of about 80 for metroid lonely claustrophobic

Metroid was dark, you played it underground, most of the time in small caves. The music was haunting, and there were not many enemies. Those that were there were mostly slow and silent. Gameplay was rather slow, too, compared to frantic games like Contra.

You've just described world 1-2 from Super Mario Bros. Was that claustrophobic and lonely?

Basically being underground means you have a black background and gray floor instead of a blue background and green floor.

Compare:
Metroid [gamespot.com]

SMB [planetnintendo.com]

Lonely, Claustrophobic [videogamecritic.net] !

Please don't get me wrong, I enjoy playing Metroid and Super Metroid, but if Samus hadn't turned out to be a half-nekkid lady at the end of the first one, I don't think it would be a huge franchise today. Mario launched the NES. Half-nekked man-Samus would have doomed Metroid to this fate [w-create.com] .

My opinion only, of course.

Re:Yes nintendo would never do something like that (1)

LKM (227954) | more than 9 years ago | (#13128503)

You've just described world 1-2 from Super Mario Bros. Was that claustrophobic and lonely?

If all of SMB were like that, then yes, SMB would be claustrophobic and lonely.

And your google results prove that I'm not the only one thinking that Metroid is lonely and claustrophobic, even though I obviously didn't just copy that phrase from somewhere, because even your search found only 80 pages containing both claustrophobic and lonely.

The point on Samus being female has got nothing to do with the game's ambiance. The discussion whether Metroid would have been successfull without Samus being female is an entirely different discussion. Personally, I think it would have been successfull. It was an awesome game for its time, and as Zero Mission shows, it's holdung up even today.

Re:Yes nintendo would never do something like that (1)

cornface (900179) | more than 9 years ago | (#13130513)

If all of SMB were like that, then yes, SMB would be claustrophobic and lonely.

It's exactly the same as all the other Mario levels except the background is black and the floor is gray! The creatures are the same. The music is nearly the same. The bricks are the same. The powerups are the same. Why is it lonely and claustrophobic?

Metroid had pretty much the same mechanics and graphical cliches as a boatload of other games from the same time period that nobody gets misty eyed for.

Anyway, you have your opinion. I remain convinced that nostalgia is coloring it. This doesn't detract from the fact that it, and it's sequels, were fun games with excellent level design. I think that "claustrophobic and lonely" is stretching it a bit (or a lot).

No worries! I haven't played Zero Mission yet.

Re:Yes nintendo would never do something like that (1)

LKM (227954) | more than 9 years ago | (#13133231)

It's exactly the same as all the other Mario levels except the background is black and the floor is gray!

If you can't see the difference between Super Mario Bros and Metroid, well, then there's nothing I can do for you :-)

And get Zero Mission! It's great, although way too short.

Re:Yes nintendo would never do something like that (1)

LKM (227954) | more than 9 years ago | (#13134754)

Anyway, you have your opinion. I remain convinced that nostalgia is coloring it.

It just occured to me that this can't be it. I didn't own a NES/Famcom until about three years ago, and the first time I played the original Metroid was when I unlocked it in Prime.

I did play Metroid 2 on the GameBoy, though, which was the first Metroid I did play. I guess that game had a huge influence on my opinion of Metroid, and it's very claustrophobic.

Essence? (2, Interesting)

Bellum Aeternus (891584) | more than 9 years ago | (#13114515)

In the original game there was a trait called Essence that defined how much of your humanity was left, compared to how much machine you'd become. Think Darth Vader.

I wonder how erked some execs where when they found out they were selling a piece of software that suggested technology made you less human. O_o

Re:Essence? (1)

JNighthawk (769575) | more than 9 years ago | (#13117224)

When you replace parts of your body WITH technology, it certainly makes you less human.

Re:Essence? (1)

PakProtector (115173) | more than 9 years ago | (#13117951)

You've been playing Vampire: the Masquerade far too long, because that's not what Shadowrun's Essence was all about.

Shadowrun is a mixture of Cyberpunk and Fantasy. And one of the concepts of Shadowrun is that everyone has Essence, which is their Life Force, not their 'Humanity.' The more cyberwear you install, the lower your essence goes, because the less meat there is on your corpse the less living tissue imbued with life force you have.

This was a big problem with Mages and other people who used magic (Adepts and Mages and Shamans, pretty much) because your Magic Attribute (which determined how big of a stick you could swing magically) was linked to your essence. For every integer point of essence you lose, you lose a point of Magic.

So if you're a Mage and you get cybereyes, which would cost .2 essence according to the SR3, making your essence drop from 6 to 5.8, your magic would drop from 6 to 5.

And when your Magic gets to 0, you're burned out, and there is no way to ever raise it again, and you can't use magic ever again.

However, when you essence gets to Zero, you die. Instantly.

There's just not enough life force to keep your corpse moving./p.

Deus Ex (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#13114549)

Well, techincally I would call Deus Ex a FSP, but it contained elements of RPG. If they go along those lines, and give you choice of starting as different characters then it'll be pretty close to an RPG anyway, just from a first person point of view right?

Hmmmm.... (1)

Xud (901017) | more than 9 years ago | (#13114675)

I have been running the shadowrun pen and paper game for years it seems like now (8 years actually), I actually just ended a recent session a couple of weeks ago.

I remember playing the RPG for Snes and remembering how fun it was, I actually played that first before I went to the pen and paper game.

In contrast the Snes game was watered down and had a fixed story line (which was once rumored to be the storyline of an old gaming session one of the developers had, but I could be wrong on that)and wasn't as rich as the pen and paper game, but lets face it there wasn't any way u could keep the interest of most people if you made it like that, so for what it was worth, it was a good game.

The only way a new game could work as a FPS is if they made it like (hold your breath) morrowind. It would be the only way you could do true justice to Shadowrun.

With game technology as it is, you could make the game one big open ended adventure, I could even see it as an MMORPG (not likely gonna happen).

Course then their is the plight of the casual gamer who gets turned off by a game world that big, it happened with morrowind and it would proly happen with Shadowrun if they did it in that manner.

Re:Hmmmm.... (1)

Prophet of Nixon (842081) | more than 9 years ago | (#13114765)

While I would love a Morrowind or System Shock-like game set in Shadowrun, I'll cough up my skull if they make another bleeding MMOPOS out of it.

Re:Hmmmm.... (1)

Xud (901017) | more than 9 years ago | (#13114804)

I dont think it will happen, and more then likley if they did it would be a POS :-).

in fact i dont have any high hopes for the game if they do in fact make it.

Morrowind? I'd prefer Deus-Ex (1)

gknoy (899301) | more than 9 years ago | (#13115030)

I always thought that Deus Ex did a very good job of capturing some of the feel of Shadowrun,and would make a good basis, as far as how they did storytelling and skills and all that, for a Shadowrun game. Not to mention that anotech upgrades and such really were a fun analog to cyberware.

Yes, Morrowind is HUGE -- and it would be awesome to have a Seattle Metroplex that was as accessible as the continent in Morrowind ... But honestly, I could not really PLAY morrowind much because it was _so_ open ended. =/ I'd settle for a Deus Ex -like game ("levels" that were largely open-ended, and a pretty linear plot) if it were Fun and Well Written. I suspect that a game like that would be more feasible to be written by a game company (though goodness knows, I'd LOVE for Bethesda to try it. ;)).

Fun and well written ... heh ...yeah, I guess that's really why Morrowind and Deus Ex wouldbe good though-food for a Shadowrun game.

On a side note -- does anyone know of any good online SR games? I'm tempted to go back to the Dumpshock Forums [dumpshock.com] , but ... *sigh* ... actually I suspect I answered my own question, since that's pretty much the largest set of SR games/etc that are play-by-forum. (Now if I could only find live ones them near ME...)

Re:Morrowind? I'd prefer Deus-Ex (1)

Xud (901017) | more than 9 years ago | (#13115096)

I totally forgot about Deus EX!

That would be totally cool if they did something like that, I could settle for a shadowrun game in the scale of Deaus EX if they didnt do on a scale like morrwind like game :-)

The big problem with morrowind is u made your charecter and they dump u in this world and say "do whatever" What they needed was a better way to get you into the mian storyline and better way to get you to play all the side stuff they put in it, I have owned morrwind and the expansions for years and i have to beat the main storyline.

and i tried dumpshock also and got nothing, you could try searching for a good Multi User Dungeon (or MUD). Might get better results.

Re:Morrowind? I'd prefer Deus-Ex (1)

gknoy (899301) | more than 9 years ago | (#13115168)

*grins*...

I tried an SR MUD once, didn't really like it. I prefer the pen and paper style play (whether live or over forums/IRC), since then I can say "I duck behind that steel desk, putting my machine pistol over the top and laying suppressive fire so my chummers can get across the lobby to the elevator." :D

I had forgotten, but I actually liked the dumpshock forums. Their game forums are widespread, and can even make really good reading. :D The good ones, at least.

Re:Morrowind? I'd prefer Deus-Ex (1)

Xud (901017) | more than 9 years ago | (#13115341)

Was you pistol an aries? HAHA

I would like to get back into dumpshock and see if there is anything good going on, I only have 4 people where i live that play my SR games, I have been known to do epic storylines that last awhile.

Re:Morrowind? I'd prefer Deus-Ex (1)

gknoy (899301) | more than 9 years ago | (#13115690)

<SR geek>
Dual Colt Manhunters actually ... ;)

(Never actually used a machine pistol in-game...)
</SR geek>

Yes! (3, Funny)

Digital Vomit (891734) | more than 9 years ago | (#13114839)

It's about time we get another First Person Shooter game! This one's automatically on my "to buy" list!

Might be good... Might be really bad... (1)

vertinox (846076) | more than 9 years ago | (#13115336)

I'll have to rent it first, because even though I loved SR to death in Pen&Paper and in the games, I have my doubts with Microsoft.

Unless they make a ShadowRun FPS that is like Marrowind Elder Scrolls (which IMO was one the better RPGs of the decade) then it most likely just be Unreal Tourney with "futuristic skins".

Although if they made SR360 like System Shock2...

Re:Might be good... Might be really bad... (1)

RexDart (806741) | more than 9 years ago | (#13115860)

*Marrowind*? Bits of bone blowing in the breeze? Something that gorey must have been an FPS.

Shadowrun (1)

petrus4 (213815) | more than 9 years ago | (#13115669)

I bought (and lost, sadly) copies of both SR2 and SR3 core rules. I thought the game rocked, but I knew of very few people who played it. I found myself thinking a while ago that a TV series based on it would have been particularly cool.

It has aged though...primarily because the geopolitical events which created the fictional scenario were supposed to have started in 1989/91...so it really was a game of the 80s.

Still, the magic system was awesome...the Matrix mechanics weren't so good, gameplay wise, and it was a bit limited from only using six-sided dice. To me the storyline cried out to be explored via other mediums, mainly because the game mechanics were a bit shaky in places.
If it is done intelligently, this game could be really good.

Re:Shadowrun (1)

Xud (901017) | more than 9 years ago | (#13115758)

Thats interesting cause i didnt want anything to do with the magic system.

Alot of the games i ran i would pretty much void all magic and magic users and changed the way people make charecters starting off.

the astral walk aspect threw me off about it, and what went into it, plus all the extra stuff you had to do to use it. I do agree with you however about the matrix mechanics being less then par. if any player was jacked anytime during play it made it a game within a game.

Why all the FPS hate? (1)

DoctaWatson (38667) | more than 9 years ago | (#13116836)

I can't believe all the comments on this story that have already written this game off because it's an FPS instead of an RPG, as though there has never been a decent FPS made.

Aside from the SNES and Genesis Shadowrun games, the games most closely resembling Shadowrun's cyberpunk world have been Deus Ex and System Shock. Suprise surprise... they were first and foremost First Person Shooters.

Don't be so quick to pigeonhole this as another Halo clone (as opposed to a KOTOR clone). Wait and see if it turns out to be a decent game for once.

Must not be paying attention (2, Informative)

Dachannien (617929) | more than 9 years ago | (#13116857)

It's a first-person shooter based on an old paper RPG of the same name from a couple decades ago.

A couple decades ago? Ahh, I guess that explains this. [shadowrunrpg.com]

Shadowrun: FPS (1)

DigitalDwarf (902246) | more than 9 years ago | (#13149178)

Ok the orginal Shadowrun on the Genisis was AWSOME!!! But a FPS....NOOOOOOOOO!!!!! It can't be!!! Why must they take great games and make them suck!!! XBox 360 has just lost my cash.
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