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Python's Cheese Shop Now Open

timothy posted more than 9 years ago | from the don't-care-how-effing-runny-it-is dept.

Programming 40

Richard Jones writes "Python's software repository has finally got its own home at the Python Cheese Shop. The Cheese Shop includes the package index (PyPI) and package download repository."

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The Python Cheese Shop Sketch (4, Funny)

TripMaster Monkey (862126) | more than 9 years ago | (#13210993)


Customer: Now, then, some packages, my good man.
Owner: Certainly, sir! What would you like?
Customer: How about some nice bitbake?
Owner: I'm afraid we're fresh out of bitbake, sir.

Customer: No matter...have you any testoob?
Owner: Not...as...such, sir.
Customer: Well then, perhaps some SiGL?
Owner: Normally, yes, sir. Hard drive broke down.
Customer: I see...do you in fact have any packages?
Owner: Certainly, sir! This is The Cheese Shop, sir! We have -
Customer: No no no...don't tell me, I'm keen to guess...

Re:The Python Cheese Shop Sketch (1)

Hikaru79 (832891) | more than 9 years ago | (#13211119)

Don't be too hard on the owner, it's not his fault. That's what happens when you get slashdotted.

Re:The Python Cheese Shop Sketch (1)

Richard Jones (28382) | more than 9 years ago | (#13211651)

Nicely done :)

Re:The Python Cheese Shop Sketch (3, Funny)

smitty_one_each (243267) | more than 9 years ago | (#13213358)

Customer: Well, then, have you got any Venezuelan Beaver Cheese?
Owner: Sir, this is a self-respecting establishment. I shall thank you not to imply we should traffic in VB, much less, even mention the foul product.

This confirms everything Ive thought about pythong (1, Interesting)

bergeron76 (176351) | more than 9 years ago | (#13211035)

It's just plain cheesylicious.

Aside from all the great things I know/have learned about python, it still seems to be the only language that _always_ suffers from some kind of runtime problem when I try to use it.

Every time I've tried to run a python script, it's bailed on me for one reason or another, and with a cryptic failure code. Which really sucks, because everyone that uses it seems to love it and I'd love to have an introduction to it that worked.

Of course, I thought the same things about Perl too, so hopefully this brings Python some user-freudlichness.

I've got a solution for you (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#13211166)

Maybe you should, you know, learn how to use your computer.

It's hard to imagine thousands of Python programmers are out there writing scripts that will never run, no?

Re:This confirms everything Ive thought about pyth (2, Interesting)

interiot (50685) | more than 9 years ago | (#13211182)

If they're problems that are related the she-bang (#!/usr/bin/perl), then user-friendliness problems are in teh kernel itself. The #! thing is a hack inside the kernel itself, and as such, does very minimal parsing. So, it doesn't search the path for the perl or python interpretters (unless you use /usr/bin/env, which is also not ideal for a couple reasons).

I don't know. Maybe a better solution would be to create a variable like $SHELL, but call it $SHEBANG. When a script starts with #!$SHEBANG, the kernel wouldn't parse ANYTHING else on that line (eg. have the same behavior across Linux, Solaris, ...), and the $SHEBANG program would be some universally available program that would do the parsing of that line, and search the path, etc. I don't know.

Re:This confirms everything Ive thought about pyth (2, Insightful)

Linus Torvaalds (876626) | more than 9 years ago | (#13212009)

Start scripts with:

#!/usr/bin/env python

It'll do the right thing whenever python is in $PATH.

Re:This confirms everything Ive thought about pyth (1)

interiot (50685) | more than 9 years ago | (#13214952)

Right, but as I mentioned in my post, that's not 100% perfect either.

The first problem is that env isn't located in (or accessible from) /usr/bin/ in all flavors of unix. This usually isn't a problem, but when it is a problem, the user gets a very cryptic error. ("./parent_script.py not found").

The second problem is that different kernels parse the remaining arguments differently. So if you did this:

#!/usr/bin/env python -W all
On linux, python would see the following args:
argv[0] = "W -all"
argv[1] = "parent_script.py"
While on Solaris, python would see these args:
argv[0] = "parent_script.py"

Obviously that could create some cross-platform differences in behavior.

The biggest issue is that there's no standard and consistent behavior across Unix flavors. If we had that, we'd be all set.

Re:This confirms everything Ive thought about pyth (2, Funny)

MechaShiva (872964) | more than 9 years ago | (#13211372)

And this just confirms I'm not the only one who types 'pythong' instead of 'python' when I'm in a rush. Thanks.

Re:This confirms everything Ive thought about pyth (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#13212167)

Either you are a complete moron who should stay waa, way away from computers.

Or you are a fucking clueless moron who should stay waaaay away from computers.

Re:This confirms everything Ive thought about pyth (2, Insightful)

dimator (71399) | more than 9 years ago | (#13212244)

Cryptic failure code? I have always admired python for its verbose failure messages, which usually include a traceback... not sure what you mean by cryptic failure code...

Re:This confirms everything Ive thought about pyth (1)

Nevyn (5505) | more than 9 years ago | (#13216607)

Cryptic failure code?

Yes, as in cryptic for the user. The following is roughly what I see in the wild, when using python vs. almost anything else:

% cat x.pl
open(IN, "< X") || die "open: $!"
% perl x.pl
open: No such file or directory at x.pl line 1.
% cat x.py
open("X")
% python x.py
Traceback (most recent call last):
File "x.py", line 1, in ?
open("X")
IOError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory: 'X'

...yes, in theory, the python program could do:

import sys

try:
open("X")
except IOError, (errno, strerror):
sys.stderr.write("open(%s): %s\n" % ("X", strerror))

...but 1) noone does that (due to it being horribly ugly). and 2) If "X" exists and is a namedpipe, which blocks, and the user does a C-c you'll get the same problem with a KeyboardInterrupt exception.

Re:This confirms everything Ive thought about pyth (1)

ZvlvLord (200368) | more than 9 years ago | (#13214841)

Do you have specific examples ? Show me the code. Just saying that everytime you wrote a Python script, it bailed on you, doesn't count. Where's the meat ? Let's get to it. I'll bet you half a box of beers that the mistake is on your side. If it's a bug with the libs that you use, post a bug report and be happy. There is NO BUG-LESS software, get used to it.

mmmm... (0, Offtopic)

AtariAmarok (451306) | more than 9 years ago | (#13211058)

mmmmm. free government cheese. mmmmmm.

missing something (2, Interesting)

same_old_story (833424) | more than 9 years ago | (#13211073)

sorry for being, lazy, I didn't read the fucking repository but...
a) why is this different from the vault of parnassus?
b) missed the cheese joke (not a big m. python fan I guess...)

Re:missing something (1)

KrisW (613034) | more than 9 years ago | (#13211111)

It seems to me that the only way it's different from the Vaults Of Parnassus is that there's way more stuff in the latter. Maybe it's easier to update than the Vaults.

No comment on the cheese sketch.

Re:missing something (1)

Ignominious Cow Herd (540061) | more than 9 years ago | (#13211116)

a) why is this different from the vault of parnassus?

It's so clean.

b) missed the cheese joke (not a big m. python fan I guess...)

See answer to a)

Re:missing something (1)

Seumas (6865) | more than 9 years ago | (#13211472)

More importantly - why do Python people choose such stupid names for this stuff?

Re:missing something (2, Interesting)

Ignominious Cow Herd (540061) | more than 9 years ago | (#13211518)

Right, because yacc, bison, parrot, beagle, mozilla, apache, zope, gkrellm and superkaramba are all such normal names.

Re:missing something (1)

Seumas (6865) | more than 9 years ago | (#13211680)

Um. No, more like CPAN.

You listed languages and products. We're talking about a software archive.

Re:missing something (2, Funny)

Aeiri (713218) | more than 9 years ago | (#13212254)

"We're talking about a software archive."

No, we're talking about cheese.

Yum.

Re:missing something (2, Funny)

indifferent children (842621) | more than 9 years ago | (#13212812)

No, Yum is an RPM package manager. Totally different.

Re:missing something (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#13212879)

Here is a transcript of The Cheese Emporium sketch [serve.com] .

A Bad Choice of Name (1)

wintermute1974 (596184) | more than 9 years ago | (#13213171)

What a strange name to give a supposedly useful website. Clearly, the Python language was named after Monty Python, but in trying to keep the joke going, they have made a bad choice in name.

In the Cheese Emporium sketch [serve.com] , the customer walks into to a cheese store, spends a great deal of time trying to figure out what is available, and in the end leaves the store angry and empty handed.

So if you go to Python's Cheese Shop, are you supposed to be tantalized with all sorts of wonderful modules, only to find there are none?

Re:missing something (1)

foote (441858) | more than 9 years ago | (#13214508)

I agree that the name is silly. And I like Python the language, and Python the Monty as well. It's just time for Graham Chapman's colonel to come in and say "Right, this is too silly, I'm closing this site down. Move along."

Somebody in another comment responded to a complaint about the name by saying "Right, because yacc, bison, parrot, beagle, mozilla, apache, zope, gkrellm and superkaramba are all such normal names." Point taken, but Cheese Shop, or Bicycle Repairman, go beyond these others, in my opinion.

The Cheese Shop site at least looks clean, like CPAN, and unlike the Vaults of Parnassus. I'm grateful for the VoP, and for the work of the dedicated people who run it. It is useful and valued. But the look is rather like a fourteen-year-old's Dungeon's and Dragon's site. It's a bit embarassing, really. And the metaphor is wrong, just like the snake on the cover of the O'Reilly Python Pocket Reference is wrong. But I guess the O'Reilly book looks cooler and more professional with an actual snake than a Terry Gilliam drawing. I'm not ungrateful. Just picky.

Also, as has been noted, the Cheese Shop is where you don't get any cheese. If they wanted a Python reference, they could have chosen the Travel Agency. At least you get Carol Cleveland inviting you upstairs. And they could name their discussion boards the Argument Clinic.

Package repository, eh? (1)

daeley (126313) | more than 9 years ago | (#13211117)

Well, it's certainly uncontaminated by package trees.

I can understand humor (1)

xutopia (469129) | more than 9 years ago | (#13211175)

but damnit what the heck is wrong with this picture? I thought to myself that the cheese shop was a demo akin to the store demo we've seen with java and C#. No instead I see a website that just confused me. Why can't they write it clearly on the site what it is?

Re:I can understand humor (1)

Richard Jones (28382) | more than 9 years ago | (#13211669)

Thankyou for your feedback. A short introduction for the newb has been added.

Say what now Py folks? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#13211189)

Whenever I laud CPAN, the python folks are so quick to tell me how I can't trust the code I get, how CPAN is worthless ,etc. So what now guys? is the Cheese Shop an equally untrustworthy waste of time?

Re:Say what now Py folks? (1)

afd8856 (700296) | more than 9 years ago | (#13212636)

there's quite a difference. PyPi is a collection of python software, while CPAN serves mostly as a collection of perl modules.

The Python community really needs to have an overview of the software available for use, so this repository, together with the wiki from python.org is really good of introducing newcomers to what's available.

How disappointing (1)

macshit (157376) | more than 9 years ago | (#13211198)

Man, I was all revved up for some online cheese ordering action (the more obscure and malodorous the better), and all this site seems to have is a bunch of software packages. Besides the opening quote (which we've all heard before anyway) there's nary a hint of cheese anywhere.

Re:How disappointing (1)

Vo0k (760020) | more than 9 years ago | (#13211770)

Somehow I find it disturbing: it has a cheesy look and a fishy smell.

Typical Timmy (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#13211273)

...Made sure he posted a Roland advert, then back to his regular crap-fest...

Not enough cheese (0, Offtopic)

invisigoth (131518) | more than 9 years ago | (#13211884)

There's not enough cheese on the cheese sandwiches. - Tom Green, Freddy Got Fingered.

I'm a Python coder & a great Python fan, but . (2, Interesting)

dotzie (901508) | more than 9 years ago | (#13212778)

... but this is plain disappointing.

Why do they included each _version_ of a package in the repository? EmPy [python.org] listed and counted in the category list 4 times.

How can I easily download a package, including all of it's dependencies? Or, how can I just download a package from CheeseShop automatically, using a command-line utility?

Lame (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#13214027)

Well you can't. This is just half assed, like the stupid name.

So they're naming the repository... (3, Funny)

LazyBoy (128384) | more than 9 years ago | (#13213965)

for a shop that didn't have anything in it?

Re:So they're naming the repository... (1)

Richard Jones (28382) | more than 9 years ago | (#13219071)

That's the *point*, it's *ironic humour* :)
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