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PS3 Details Slowly Emerging

Zonk posted about 9 years ago | from the more-fuel-for-the-fire dept.

PlayStation (Games) 169

The Playstation Magazine (PSM) has a feature coming up in the next issue which discusses Sony's new console with a few new details. Both Maxconsole and Ferrago have a look at the piece. From the Maxconsole article: "We've received a lot of letters asking about how PS2 will be backwards compatible with PS2 and the original Playstation if it doesn't have memory card slot. Well, we have an answer, and it's both good and bad. First, the bad news: All of those old memory cards you have won't be usable with PS3. Okay then, wha's the solution? Sony has actually decided to only use Memory Stick Duo cards(the same format PSP uses) for PS3 save data. However, if you play a PS1 or PS2 game on PS3, the system will treat the Memory Stick like it's a normal memory card."

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Oh come on people... (3, Insightful)

Godeke (32895) | about 9 years ago | (#13231945)

OK, so there I am on the prior story saying how much I look forward to the PS3 because of the backwards compatibility and here comes an article telling me that my save files are junk. Good grief, they couldn't put a *single* reader slot for the old cards? I wouldn't care if they made me copy the data over prior to use, except for those few games with "protected" save files that you can't move are still in trouble. I wouldn't even care if it was on the back or something silly, since I would only copy the files once.

Please tell me that they aren't this stupid? I have games from the PS1 that I haven't finished (turn based strategy games may look bad, but still play great) and a lot of games on the PS2 in progress.

Re:Oh come on people... (1)

GoodbyeBlueSky1 (176887) | about 9 years ago | (#13232153)

Please tell me that they aren't this stupid? I have games from the PS1 that I haven't finished (turn based strategy games may look bad, but still play great) and a lot of games on the PS2 in progress.

Sony is, by a very large margin, the absolute worst company when it comes to memory storage. They sell the most expensive flash memory around, and you're lucky if it doesn't go obsolete within two years. I'm sorry, but they really are this stupid.

Re:Oh come on people... (4, Insightful)

WaterBreath (812358) | about 9 years ago | (#13232363)

Please tell me that they aren't this stupid?

They aren't "this stupid". "This stupid" would be to guarantee full backward compatility at every step, tying themselves indefinitely to ancient, obsolete hardware and software.

We should be thanking Sony for even bothering to support the PS1 at all. It's two generations back now. Heaven forbid you should have to start a game over. We're lucky we'll even be able to play them at all. I certainly was surprised.

I have games from the PS1 that I haven't finished...

PS1 machines aren't going to magically stop working once the PS3 comes out. Keep your PS1.

...and a lot of games on the PS2 in progress

PS2 machines aren't going to magically stop working once the PS3 comes out. Keep your PS2.

Sorry to sound snide. I just don't understand where you're coming from with this complaint. Are you really outraged, or just disappointed? Either way, I don't think it's fair, or correct, to call it a stupid move.

Re:Oh come on people... (2, Insightful)

Godeke (32895) | about 9 years ago | (#13232912)

Yes, I can keep the PS2, but when I got the PS2 I gave the PS1 to relatives. I already have four consoles under this roof and making it so I can't just swap it out means I probably will just wait that much longer to buy, since I already have a library of games that I play. A lot of the games have unlockable content and when you are on the next to last mission of Ring of Red you don't want to start over. It isn't the new memory architecture, it is the inability to migrate to the new memory architecture while at the very same time you can use the games. If I have to wait until I finish all my old games before I buy, I won't buy soon.

Maybe this doesn't matter to the "look shiny" crowd who doesn't play 100+ hour strategy games and rarely finishes anything, but it is an inconvience for me. the article questions whether a DEX drive might migrate the files... here is hoping it will, because I will be right there.

Re:Oh come on people... (1)

WaterBreath (812358) | about 9 years ago | (#13233772)

Maybe this doesn't matter to the "look shiny" crowd who doesn't play 100+ hour strategy games...

In the interest of clarification, I'm not in the "look shiny" crowd. I got my first PlayStation for free from a friend who was done with his. That was just 4 years ago. I recently picked up a used PSOne (for $30) at Gamestop because that old one broke. I bought my first (and only) PS2 just 1 year ago.

And the reason I even bought the systems at all was so that I could play through all the great SquareSoft RPGs, including the re-released NES and SNES games. Although these are arguably not usually 100+ hour games, it can approach that amount of time investment in order to "get everything" in the newer ones.

Anyway, I understand where you're coming from. My solution has always been to be satisfied with being a late adopter. Yeah, it means I don't get to play the exciting new stuff. But it also means I never have to buy a game wondering whether it will be worth the money or not.

Re:Oh come on people... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 years ago | (#13235268)

Yes, I can keep the PS2, but when I got the PS2 I gave the PS1 to relatives

I was going to get rid of the PS1 when I got the PS2, but it's a good thing I didn't. PS2 has huge problems playing PS1 games, at least for me. It has trouble spinning the discs (you can hear it trying. It's like there's no friction), it glitches out on a few games, and it wont read my third party memory card. Often when I wanna play PS1 games I actually have to bust out the PS1. Good thing the cables are the same for both systems, so its only a matter of swapping two cables.

Oh yes. (1)

Adapt or Die (697102) | about 9 years ago | (#13233872)

God forbid he's not "fair" to poor wittle Sony.

We're lucky we'll be able to play those older games?! You've got that backwards, man. They're lucky if we buy their console, and having backwards compatibility is one of the ways they'll use to entice us to do so.

Now excuse me while I go "thank" Sony for selling me something I don't even need.

Re:Oh yes. (1)

WaterBreath (812358) | about 9 years ago | (#13234132)

having backwards compatibility is one of the ways they'll use to entice us to do so

Yes, it might entice you, or I, to do so. But what about everyone else? It's just as arrogant to think that Sony owes it to you to meet your obscure demands as it is for a company to put out a product without doing market research. Don't like it? Don't buy it. But in this particular case, I doubt it will be any skin off Sony's nose if vintage game geeks like you and I don't buy, or buy late. And therefore, it's not stupid of them.

I'd like to find out what percentage of the people who own PS2's actually use its PS1 compatibility. I can guarantee that the guys who are running out annually to buy the latest version of EA's sports games don't care, by and large. They and those like them are the big boon of the games industry right now.

As for me? I'm not buying the system until I know there are good PS3 games out for it already. Why should backwards compatibility change that? It's not like they're going to stop selling PS2's the day the PS3 hits the shelves. And it's not like you can't still find used PS1's in good shape. I'm not dropping $300 (or $400) on a brand spanking new system just to play old games, that I could play on a still available $30 or $75 machine (or better yet, which I already own). Especially when I don't know if the games that actually use the new technology will be good or not. No, that would make me the stupid one, helping line Sony's pockets for no guaranteed ROI.

One of the ways. (1)

Adapt or Die (697102) | about 9 years ago | (#13234445)

One of them. Not the only one. Sony wants to have as many features as they can, especially since they are not going to be first out of the gate this time. Sure, the fanboys will stick around, but what about everyone else?

Either way, the golden rule here is to give more options.

I personally couldn't care less about backwards compatibility. (Honestly, I don't care much about the PS3 either.) But, Sony bothered to tell us about dual video out for crying out loud, and there's a much smaller audience there than there are people who might wanna play older games on their new system.

After all, people can't keep their old systems connected forever, as they're going to need to make extra room for the second HD screen, right?

Re:Oh yes. (1)

Drachasor (723880) | about 9 years ago | (#13234883)

How many people that own SUVs actually use their off-road capabilities? Now compare that to how many people buy SUVs because of the off-road capability they will probably never use.

A feature can entice people to buy a product even if that feature is never used.

Re:Oh yes. (1)

Hadlock (143607) | about 9 years ago | (#13234984)

There are a lot of young (mid-late 30's) parents with 12-15 year olds who are purchasing a new (not hand me down) console for their kids for the first time. It's a big selling point to them that the youngest or middle kid (johnny) can have the PS2 in his room, while all the kids can share the PS3 in the living room, and when Johnny's big brother's out of the house, Johnny can play gran turismo 4 on the big screen downstairs on the PS3, or that Johnny's big brother can play all his old hand me down PS1 and 2 games on his PS3 without having to borrow Johnny's PS2. Also PS2 games will all fall in to the $15-30 range by the time the PS3 comes out, meaning Johnny's parents can buy both Johnny and his big brother(s) a new game each for christmas, rather than making them split the PS3 in to a time share so they can play gran turismo 5 or whatever the favorite game is on the PS3 at the time.

Re:Oh yes. (1)

Chemical (49694) | about 9 years ago | (#13235341)

I'd like to find out what percentage of the people who own PS2's actually use its PS1 compatibility.

I'd say the percentage would be about equal to the number of people who owned a PS1 before owning a PS2.

Re:Oh come on people... (1)

LoverOfJoy (820058) | about 9 years ago | (#13232467)

Don't worry. By the time PS3 comes out you'll have beaten even the longest of your PS2 games.

Re:Oh come on people... (3, Funny)

bleaknik (780571) | about 9 years ago | (#13232961)

After reading your comment, I ran some numbers. I've got enough games that I still want to complete that I figure I should be done just in time for the next Duke Nukem title.

Wait a minute.................

Re:Oh come on people... (1)

torpor (458) | about 9 years ago | (#13232585)

Re:Oh come on people...

Come on yourself .. Whats the big deal with re-playing your game again?

or, are game-saves some sort of trophy/reward/win/pose thing?

you can still save stuff on the new slots .. so i applaud sony, actually, for taking that risk. its the 3rd revision of their game system, they know how many game-saves there are in the world, they're sorta saying .. why don't you play the games .. again .. on your new system ..

game-saves. should it be forever, or just when you're playing?

Re:Oh come on people... (1)

Chosen Reject (842143) | about 9 years ago | (#13232765)

are game-saves some sort of trophy/reward/win/pose thing?

What is really happening is he never played them to begin with. He just copied some friends game saves so he could beat the game real fast and then brag about it.

Re:Oh come on people... (1)

Meagermanx (768421) | about 9 years ago | (#13232854)

Nothing's stopping him from keeping his save games. If he wants to play his PS1 games, he should use his PS1 or PS2. Same with the PS2 games. I mean, god forbid he should have to switch like, one cable from one machine to the other.

Re:Oh come on people... (2, Interesting)

MasterOfMagic (151058) | about 9 years ago | (#13233407)

Given people's obsession with finding out the secrets of the PS2 and the PS3 and given the lucrative market, I'm sure that GameShark or ActionReplay will come out with a device or software to do this migration for you. For example, a version of the SharkPort that works on the PS2 to take the games from it and move them to the PS3.

Just because Sony won't support this in the console doesn't mean that it won't be supported by third parties.

Re:Oh come on people... (1)

supabeast! (84658) | about 9 years ago | (#13234279)

"Please tell me that they aren't this stupid? I have games from the PS1 that I haven't finished (turn based strategy games may look bad, but still play great) and a lot of games on the PS2 in progress."

They aren't that stupid. They'll be selling PS1 and PS2 memory card readers at some obscene markup to make up some of the losses they take on the PS3.

And if Sony doesn't make it, Interact will.

Re:Oh come on people... (1)

superpulpsicle (533373) | about 9 years ago | (#13235183)

Backward compatibility is never 100%. There were PS1 games that never worked for PS2. I know first hand.... my PS1 Mortal Kombat Trilogy was one example. I was so angry, I threatened to piss on my shiny new PS2.

I predict 100% backwards compatibility... (3, Funny)

It doesn't come easy (695416) | about 9 years ago | (#13231947)

We've received a lot of letters asking about how PS2 will be backwards compatible with PS2 and the original Playstation [...]

Maybe he meant... (1)

game kid (805301) | about 9 years ago | (#13232343)

...the PS2 will now be backwards-compatible with PS/2, which means I can use my 3-button mouse to play SOCOM II--YAY!!1

A Hack (1)

niskel (805204) | about 9 years ago | (#13231954)

How long would it take to make a hack that gets saves from the old memory cards onto the new memory cards. Not long by my guess seeing as there are already ways to get PS1 and PS2 saves to a computer. All it would really take is a PSP hack to get the saves on the new sticks.

All of Sony's electronic products exist just to... (4, Insightful)

rokzy (687636) | about 9 years ago | (#13231994)

...sell Memory Sticks.

it wouldn't be so bad if they didn't keep updating the specs so you can't use new high-capacity sticks in previous-generation electronics.

Re:All of Sony's electronic products exist just to (1)

PhilHibbs (4537) | about 9 years ago | (#13232224)

Stupid memory stick. Stupid Sony. USB storage is the way to go, you stupid, stupid people.

Re:All of Sony's electronic products exist just to (1)

bleaknik (780571) | about 9 years ago | (#13232466)

You know, Sony updates the specs for a reason. Sure I'm pissed I can't use my old 1.3 MP Digital Camera with a brand new 4 GB Memory Stick Pro... but if I remember right... they needed to update the specs in order to breach the 128 MB gap... something about file system instability. I guess there are those users who wouldn't mind flipping a toggle switch 37 times so they could access a few more megabytes of data..........

Re:All of Sony's electronic products exist just to (1)

andrewski (113600) | about 9 years ago | (#13233666)

Yeah, because heaven forbid that Sony should have designed their Memory Sticks with an eye towards the future.

They designed the Memory Stick format to obsolete itself.

Re:All of Sony's electronic products exist just to (1)

bleaknik (780571) | about 9 years ago | (#13233932)

You're right. It kind of reminds me of how great the IDE specification is. That whole 137 GB barrier... We'll never see hard drives bigger than that. I mean never. Absolutely never.

(of course I'm being completely facetious. the point i am making is that in 1998 when the MS first rolled out, flash memory was still a new technology. no one was absolutely certain it would take off as well as it did. give sony some slack for what they accomplished with the medium. we could still be using FD Mavicas... Need I remind you a decent picture with one of those could take up to 30 seconds to write...)

Re:All of Sony's electronic products exist just to (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 years ago | (#13235100)

Flash memory was hardly new in '98. In '98, CompactFlash, SmartMedia, MMC, SD, and ATA flash were all available. MemoryStick was *not* an improvement on any of the existing formats. The only reason it existed was simply to line the pockets of Sony and to continue to drive vertical integration at the cost of functionality.

Further, MS has been through four iterations now. The MemoryStick Pro broke the 128 MB barrier, but the Duo and Duo Pro offer no improvements upon their original designs aside from form factor. It should be noted that Duo sockets cannot accept non-Duo media.

So, basically, I think a lot of us are gun-shy about the idea of ever backing the MemoryStick format, since CF and SD are both doing quite well in the market, and Sony has a very bad history with proprietary media formats (Beta, MD, MS, MagicGate, UMD...).

Re:All of Sony's electronic products exist just to (1)

ZakuSage (874456) | about 9 years ago | (#13232971)

Uh, PS3 also has slots for Compact Flash and SD, so your point is now moot.

Re:All of Sony's electronic products exist just to (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 years ago | (#13233336)

And if you think the PS3 will allow games to save or load from them, then you need to get a MRI.
 
The PS2 had USB slots, and didn't acknowledge USB thumbdrives at all. Only a literal handful of games in Japan would save/load from the HDD.

Re:All of Sony's electronic products exist just to (1)

Suddenly_Dead (656421) | about 9 years ago | (#13234507)

Sony has actually decided to only use Memory Stick Duo cards(the same format PSP uses) for PS3 save data.

No doubt CF/SD cards will be readable for photo viewing or whatnot, but according to the article, not for save games.

Re:All of Sony's electronic products exist just to (1)

gabebear (251933) | about 9 years ago | (#13235472)

The anonymous source said it was true, so it must be!!!

Compatibility (3, Funny)

BigZaphod (12942) | about 9 years ago | (#13232022)

"about how PS2 will be backwards compatible with PS2"

Boy, I hope they are compatible! I'd hate to buy a PS2 and find myself with a suddenly obsolete PS2 when the PS2 comes out a week later or something. That'd suck.

I agree. (1)

game kid (805301) | about 9 years ago | (#13232403)

Your sig ("Be incomprehensible. If they can't understand, they can't disagree"), oddly enough, applies perfectly well in this case.

What about Compact Flash and SD (1)

gabebear (251933) | about 9 years ago | (#13232023)

The article was a bit scarce on details, but they made it sound like the Compact Flash and SD slots announced at E3 [gamer-talk.net] will not be used. I hate these stupid "leaked stories"....

What doesn't it do? (4, Insightful)

alvinrod (889928) | about 9 years ago | (#13232029)

A TiVo style peripheral will enable TV programmes to be saved on to the optional mini hard-disk.

So it plays PS, PS2, and PS3 games, can play Blu-ray movies if they ever come into frutation, can display 2 HD outputs, used to serve as a router (functionality removed), supposedly it will run Linux out of the box, and other impressive features.

Unfortunately, it doesn't take old PS and PS2 memory cards (I found it annoying that you could save PS data onto a PS2 card, but this just really sucks). Dance pads and other old PS2 periphels won't work on it (I guess I can laugh at my brother for buying a $300 DDR dance mat that won't work with a PS3). Next thing we know, it won't even play games.

Is anyone else disappointed that the PS3 is becoming less and less of a game machine and turning more and more in to an all-in-wonder-box? I recall when Sony talked about how MS was basically releasing a PC with the Xbox, and now it seems the tables have turned. Some part of me honestly hopes that Nintendo and MS kick the crap out of Sony this round.

Re:What doesn't it do? (1)

Winterblink (575267) | about 9 years ago | (#13232217)

Is anyone else disappointed that the PS3 is becoming less and less of a game machine and turning more and more in to an all-in-wonder-box? I recall when Sony talked about how MS was basically releasing a PC with the Xbox, and now it seems the tables have turned. Some part of me honestly hopes that Nintendo and MS kick the crap out of Sony this round.

You're dreaming if you think Microsoft won't go all batshit dreaming up non-gaming things for their console to do. It's the way things are going to be going.

Re:What doesn't it do? (1)

cerelib (903469) | about 9 years ago | (#13232404)

first of all I think you might be looking for the word fruition, maybe. also I hope Nintendo kicks the crap out of Sony and MS. Nintendo has shown that they are really the only one of the three that cares about gaming and innovation. Sony and MS seem to just follow the trend of high power. I think they are going the way of the Pentium 4, which I would no longer touch with a 10 ft pole once they moved passed 2 GHz. Give it as many "features" as you want, you still have a steaming (literaly), inefficient mess.

Re:What doesn't it do? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 years ago | (#13233519)

Honestly, you Nintendo fans need to die off already along with your favorite has been company. Having the slowest, wimpiest specs and mostly games for 10 years and younger does not make them innovative or creative. 20 different Mario games don't make them a prime gaming company. They need to step aside already and leave gaming to companies which actually have the power.

You hope Nitendo kicks the crap out of them? You better start hoping they stop kicking the crap out of themselves with their Fisher Price console.

Re:What doesn't it do? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 years ago | (#13235569)

Wow, that was weak attempt at trolling.

100% factual, but weak, none-the-less.

Re:What doesn't it do? (4, Insightful)

oGMo (379) | about 9 years ago | (#13232495)

Unfortunately, it doesn't take old PS and PS2 memory cards (I found it annoying that you could save PS data onto a PS2 card, but this just really sucks).

Yes, because it's so hard to transfer files to a Memory Stick Duo. I might even be able to do that with a $10 USB interface. (And you've been able to transfer PS1/PS2 savegames [lik-sang.com] for ages.)

Dance pads and other old PS2 periphels won't work on it (I guess I can laugh at my brother for buying a $300 DDR dance mat that won't work with a PS3).

Sure, because even though they already build a PS2->USB box for $13 [lik-sang.com] , building either a bluetooth-based box or just connecting your dance pad to the PS3 USB port will be impossible. After all, it's clearly in the best interests of Sony and Konami/Bemani to alienate all those users. That's why they're ensuring backward compatibility in the first place.

Next thing we know, it won't even play games.

Sure, dumbass.

Re:What doesn't it do? (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 years ago | (#13232559)

Sure, dumbass.

Ha! Who's the bigger dumbass, me or the people that modded me as insightful?!

Re:What doesn't it do? (3, Insightful)

NanoGator (522640) | about 9 years ago | (#13232617)

"Is anyone else disappointed that the PS3 is becoming less and less of a game machine and turning more and more in to an all-in-wonder-box?"

It didn't really bother me until the rumored $465 price tag. Then I start thinking about things like "You know, I never got around to playing Metroid Prime..."

Then again, I think launch is a terrible time to buy a system. That's when it's at it's most expensive, most likely to break, and when the fewest games are launched.

Re:What doesn't it do? (1)

|/|/||| (179020) | about 9 years ago | (#13232795)

You missed out on Metroid Prime? It's definitely worth picking up, as is the sequel, Echoes. I actually enjoyed the second one even more than the first.

One tip though - the first thing you want to do on starting a new game is turn off the "hints." They're on by default, and nothing ruins a good metroid game like knowing where to go next. 8P

Re:What doesn't it do? (1)

NanoGator (522640) | about 9 years ago | (#13234559)

Appreciated, thank you! :)

Re:What doesn't it do? (1)

bynary (827120) | about 9 years ago | (#13232920)

I guess I can laugh at my brother for buying a $300 DDR dance mat that won't work with a PS3

Did he buy the mat specifically for the PS3 or did he buy it for the PS2? Goodness. I just don't follow your logic.

Re:What doesn't it do? (4, Funny)

nunchux (869574) | about 9 years ago | (#13233047)

I guess I can laugh at my brother for buying a $300 DDR dance mat that won't work with a PS3

Let me get this straight... Your brother is dancing like an idiot in front of the TV set, and the reason you're laughing at him is because his dance mat won't work with the next generation consoles?

Re:What doesn't it do? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 years ago | (#13233833)

Let me get this straight...

What an unfortunately ironic choice of words.

Re:What doesn't it do? (1)

cornface (900179) | about 9 years ago | (#13233077)

So it plays PS, PS2, and PS3 games, can play Blu-ray movies if they ever come into frutation, can display 2 HD outputs, used to serve as a router (functionality removed), supposedly it will run Linux out of the box, and other impressive features.

Sounds good to me. However, I have the feeling that you're about to start complaining.

Unfortunately, it doesn't take old PS and PS2 memory cards (I found it annoying that you could save PS data onto a PS2 card, but this just really sucks). Dance pads and other old PS2 periphels won't work on it

I knew it!

It's interesting to note that my old SMS light gun won't work with the Dreamcast and my SNES controllers won't work on the GameCube. Well maybe not interesting, just common sense. Why would you be upset that a peripheral you bought for an existing piece of hardware won't work with another piece of hardware that hasn't even come out yet?

(I guess I can laugh at my brother for buying a $300 DDR dance mat).

I fixed that sentence for you.

Is anyone else disappointed that the PS3 is becoming less and less of a game machine and turning more and more in to an all-in-wonder-box?

If you don't like it, don't buy it. Don't let it bother you.

I recall when Sony talked about how MS was basically releasing a PC with the Xbox, and now it seems the tables have turned. Some part of me honestly hopes that Nintendo and MS kick the crap out of Sony this round.

It's amazing to think that Sony would talk down their competitor's features that were not part of their own console. I'd post more but I need to take a break and let that sink in.

hmm (1)

jessecurry (820286) | about 9 years ago | (#13232042)

All of those old memory cards you have won't be usable with PS3

I hope that someone will create a piece of hardware that copies information from the old memory cards to the memorystick.

Re:hmm (1)

StonedRat (837378) | about 9 years ago | (#13232069)

i think you can backup ps2 memory cards to your pc with an action replay, and write to the duo easily enough using a psp or a card reader.

Re:hmm (1)

forkazoo (138186) | about 9 years ago | (#13232444)

http://www.lik-sang.com/info.php?category=25&produ cts_id=202& [lik-sang.com]

This is the first thing I saw. Plug it into your PC, and backup your saves. If you have a Memory stick reader on the PC, it should be easy to copy over.

I also wouldn't be surprised if there us a USB card reader available for the PS3 itself to work with the old cards directly.

On the bright side... (1)

sagekoala06 (786349) | about 9 years ago | (#13232096)

at least I'll have a use for the otherwise useless 32meg memory stick that came with my psp.

Great. (3, Insightful)

bk_veggie (807894) | about 9 years ago | (#13232099)

So I get to buy some kooky, expensive third party device in order to transfer my final fantasy, xenosaga and street fighter data to this expensive memory stick?

Possibility? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 years ago | (#13232120)

I wonder if it would be possible for those who are lucky enough to have PS2 Linux kit's to trasnfer the game saves over a network onto a PC and then from there to a memory stick?

The solution of course would be for someone to make an adaptor that allows memory card data to be transferred to PC - from whence the information can be moved around willy nilly

DexDrive (2, Interesting)

antifood (898331) | about 9 years ago | (#13232202)

The article mentioned that the DexDrive [lik-sang.com] would be a possible solution to transfer game files. It's the first thing that came to my mind as well.

Re:DexDrive (2, Insightful)

DreadPiratePizz (803402) | about 9 years ago | (#13232324)

That solution is unacceptable to many of us who do not own a Windows PC. The DexDrive does not have macintosh support, so I am out of luck.

It's also terribly inconvinient to force your customers to jump through hoops like that just to play old saved games. This is exactly what I didn;t want to see, and that's partial support for backward compatability. It's all or nothing, and if you don;t have it all, it's not worth doing.

Re:DexDrive (2, Informative)

antifood (898331) | about 9 years ago | (#13232452)

Well apparently you can [macaddict.com] use a DexDrive on your Mac. I don't think that Sony executives thought that using a relatively unknown peripheral would be a suitable substitute. I do think some Slashdot reader's may find the original link I supplied to be of use.

Re:DexDrive (0, Troll)

nick_davison (217681) | about 9 years ago | (#13235452)

That solution is unacceptable to many of us who do not own a Windows PC. The DexDrive does not have macintosh support, so I am out of luck.

Oh, come now. Do you seriously expect us to believe any Mac users use PlayStations? There's no way a Mac user's brain could handle all the buttons on a Dual Shock, it'd explode (very creatively) or something.

Of course this does open up a massive niche for third party developers - the crossover device: A controller with no buttons, no D-pads, no analog sticks. It's just a reassuring white blob that you can hug to your chest and stroke/squeeze as if it did have buttons while not having to admit to them.

Re:DexDrive (2, Insightful)

oGMo (379) | about 9 years ago | (#13235789)

Oh pfft. So someone comes out with a USB addon for the PS3 that let you plug in your PS2/PS1 memory cards. $10-15 tops. Then you don't need a PC or Mac at all.

Sony's not "forcing" customers to "jump through hoops"; as someone else said if you've got old save games, your old console doesn't stop working when you get a PS3.

Sony gives you 2 consoles of backward compatibility, a ton of new features, upgrades to a more standard form of memory storage with far greater capacity and a lower price, and all everyone does is whine whine whine because they can't plug in their 12-year-old memory card. Typical.

WTF (1)

czarangelus (805501) | about 9 years ago | (#13232267)

I'm gonna be hella pissed off if my old saves won't work on the PS3, or if I have to buy some crappy $30 gizmo to do it. I've invested well over 100 hours into some of my RPGs (slow summer, give me a break!) and if Sony's gonna throw all those hours out the window... I'm gonna be one unhappy camper.

Re:WTF (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 years ago | (#13232557)

Um, you don't HAVE to get rid of your old console just because you get a new one.

Re:WTF (1)

czarangelus (805501) | about 9 years ago | (#13233190)

That's true, but a) I can probably still sell the PS2 for ~$20, enough for a decent discount off the next console. b) I'd rather not have my space cluttered with obselete consoles - the dorm room is small enough as it is.

Re:WTF (1)

IpalindromeI (515070) | about 9 years ago | (#13233501)

Yeah, but then he can't get hella pissed. Remember, this is Slashdot. The (unwritten) motto is: Getting pissed for no reason since 1997.

The Rub, 10 years down the road.... (3, Insightful)

telstar (236404) | about 9 years ago | (#13232319)

I've got a great 36" Sony TV. Picture is beautiful. Nice HD display. Takes Sony memory sticks as the memory stick of choice ... but NOT the duo. Now, I don't really expect a TV to take ANY type of memory card, so it doesn't bother me that much ... but it was a brand new TV 2 years ago and it didn't support the Duo. The manual was even new enough to know that the Duo existed, but that it wasn't supported by my TV. Like I said, it doesn't bother me since I don't use memory sticks.

Now Sony has billed the Playstation3 as a 10-year device. It makes me wonder if they truly intend to stop the evolution of their memory stick line at the form factor of the Memory Stick Duo. What happens if 4 years down the road, they come up with a new format with a new form factor that's incompatible with the interface of the PS3? Is everyone that's 4 years into a 10 year PS3 investment screwed?

The ONLY reason Sony is obligating users to use the Memory Stick Duo as the storage media is that it allows them to recoup some of the loss they're taking on each machine sold. And while it may seem okay today ... "hey, it's their product ... they can do what they want ... right?" ... talk to me in 10 years, when a new storage medium has come out ... and your PS3 is still using a storage format you can only find used on eBay.

Re:The Rub, 10 years down the road.... (1)

Gerad (86818) | about 9 years ago | (#13232592)

No offense meant, but I would imagine that the market for PS3 memory sticks would be significantly larger than memory sticks for a specific brand of TV. I mean, you even admit that you don't bother with a memory stick in your TV, because you don't really expect a TV to use one. As long as there's a significant demand and a significant ability to make a profit, I seriously doubt that any company, that's able, will stop manfacturing a product that's bringing them in a profit.

Re:The Rub, 10 years down the road.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 years ago | (#13232652)

I think Sony advertizes these adapters that allows you to plug in a duo inside a larger old-style memory stick that you connect to your device instead -- they advertize this in their PSP manuals and I've seen them at compUSA at least.

Re:The Rub, 10 years down the road.... (3, Informative)

alvinrod (889928) | about 9 years ago | (#13232660)

Now Sony has billed the Playstation3 as a 10-year device.

They've also said things about how the PS2/PS3 would be 200 times more powerful than their last console.

If you believe them when they say it will have a 10 year life cycle, you should probably get your head examined. If anything, it seems that the lifespan of consoles is decreasing: (based on information from GameFAQs [gamefaqs.com] .

Nintendo: 7/83 - 11/90

Super Nintendo: 11/90 - 6/96

Nintendo 64: 6/96 - 9/01

GameCube: 9/01 - 8/06 (guess based on current information)

As you can see, the lifespan of consoles is decreasing as they become more advanced. The Xbox has only existed for roughly 4 years and it's already being replaced. People will still makes games for a system after a new one comes out, but most of the killer apps will be for the new platform.

I think what Sony meant to say when they threw out the 10 year figure is that it has technology in it that will finally come into wide acceptance and be standard in 10 years. 1080p TVs, good luck finding those today, but in 10 years I think a lot of people will have HD TVs capable of making full use of the PS3's graphical output abilities. Blu-ray discs won't be heavily used now since most people are satisfied with DVDs, but in 10 years it's possible that they will have replaced the DVD as the standard. There is no way, however, that the PS3 will last for 10 years. That's like saying if you purchased a top of the line computer right now that it would still be competitive 10 years down the road. It might handle Doom 3 just fine now, but what about Doom 5?

Essentially what we get is another bullshit figure pulled from the ass of Sony to get people to buy what they're selling. 10 is a nice round number and sounds impressive and somewhat believable after all the hype about the PS3 we've had thrown at us, but in 10 years I think we'll be looking at getting a nice new shiny PS5, which will replace our PS4, which 5 years before replaced the then almost pathetic PS3. Moore's law just won't allow something like the PS3 a 10 year life span.

Re:The Rub, 10 years down the road.... (2, Informative)

oGMo (379) | about 9 years ago | (#13232837)

If you believe them when they say it will have a 10 year life cycle, you should probably get your head examined.

I believe if you weren't a Nintendo fanboy and looked at the lifespan on the PS1, you'd see it survived a decade. The PS2 has an easy 3 years left in it, which puts it close, and I wouldn't be suprised to see more.

Nintendo: 7/83 - 11/90
Super Nintendo: 11/90 - 6/96
Nintendo 64: 6/96 - 9/01
GameCube: 9/01 - 8/06 (guess based on current information)

As you can see, the lifespan of consoles is decreasing as they become more advanced.

Because clearly, there are no consoles besides Nintendo consoles. Don't get me wrong: I grew up on Nintendo and love them like anyone else. But this decline could also easily be attributed to Nintendo's production of fewer and fewer games, their focus on the Gameboy, or any number of factors. Look beyond Nintendo [wikipedia.org] and we don't see a decline at all.

Re:The Rub, 10 years down the road.... (1)

alvinrod (889928) | about 9 years ago | (#13233371)

I won't dispute that you can still buy a new PlayStation and that people still make games for it (usually sports games like Madden and such are all that I can recall), but once the PS2 launched, most people slowly stopped making games for the PS. Games were still released for it (like Madden which has seen a 2005 release for the system) but nothing really great that I know of has come out for the PS since the PS2 launched, which is why we don't see GTA, GT, FF, or other big franchises being released for it.

The dates I listed where from when the console launched to when the next generation version launched. This doesn't mean that everything stops for that particular system, merely that it's pretty close to it.

PlayStation: 12/94 - 3/00 (japanese dates)

PlayStation 2: 3/00 - 3/06 (guess based on current information)

Sony's machines really haven't declined much, but I used Nintendo as an example because they stretch back farther and give a wider example. Maybe the phenomina is unique to Nintendo, but I think it's somewhat applicable.

You can argue that the Sony PS is still a viable system with games being produced for it and I won't argue too much with you because there is some truth in such a statement, but for all intents and purposes, it's life is over. Perhaps it would have been more accurate for me to say that the amount of time before a new console generation is released is shortening.

Using that reformulated hypothesis, the amount of time between the PS and PS2 falls right into line with the numbers from Nintendo consoles. Taking into your account your argument for a decreasing number of Nintendo games and an increasing number of games for the PS and PS2, their life spans are a little bit longer than average. The Xbox from MS is a special case because they entered the current generation playing field late and want to start the next one early.

The projected span for the PS2 is slightly shorter than the PS2 however. Will we still see Madden 2009 for the PS2 thought? I'd bet money on it.

Re:The Rub, 10 years down the road.... (1)

oGMo (379) | about 9 years ago | (#13233848)

The thing is, this is part of the cycle. The console isn't suddenly dead when the next generation gets released. Past its prime, yes, but it's still got a ways to go. Most people were still playing NES games when the SNES was out, same with the N64, etc.

What I'm saying is that regardless of manufacturer, these things already have close to an 8-10-year lifecycle. Basically, Sony is playing up something that is fairly typical. Hype, yes, true, probably, big deal? Not quite as big as they'd like to make it---but a signficant advantage over the XBOX, which seems to have been in its death throes for awhile already.

(Nintendo has been doing worse for entirely Nintendo-related reasons, IMO. They need to start producing the same level of games they did in the SNES days. I think they realize this, too, and that's what they're aiming for with the Revolution. I'm not entirely sure they know how to do it yet, though.)

Re:The Rub, 10 years down the road.... (1)

badasscat (563442) | about 9 years ago | (#13232847)

Nintendo: 7/83 - 11/90

Super Nintendo: 11/90 - 6/96

Nintendo 64: 6/96 - 9/01

GameCube: 9/01 - 8/06 (guess based on current information)

As you can see, the lifespan of consoles is decreasing as they become more advanced.


Well, your dates are a bit off, first of all.

The Nintendo Famicom was produced from 1983-2003. Yes, 20 years. The NES (which I guess is what you mean by "Nintendo") was produced from 1985-1995. So either way, your dates for it are completely wrong.

Your basic premise could still be true, but for the fact that Sony produced the original PlayStation from 1995-2004. So, nearly as long as Nintendo produced the NES, as long as Atari produced the 2600, longer than Sega produced the Genesis or Nintendo produced the SNES.

Many older consoles have also had extremely short life cycles. The Atari 5200 and Coleco Vision, successful in their day (yes, the 5200 actually outsold the CV), both were produced from 1982-1984. The 5200 was scheduled to be replaced by 1985 even if the crash of 1984 had never happened - the Atari 7800 was completed in 1983. (The crash delayed the 7800's launch by two more years.)

I'd say the length of a console's production life depends more on its success and its production costs than its position in the timeline of game console history. A lot of old consoles lasted a good long time (the Intellivision, for example, was produced from 1979-1991 despite limited marketplace success - it was cheap to make and market), but a lot of others only lasted a couple years. The same is true of today's machines.

Re:The Rub, 10 years down the road.... (1)

Hadlock (143607) | about 9 years ago | (#13235435)

The Nintendo Famicom was produced from 1983-2003. Yes, 20 years.
 
As I understand it, the Sega Master system is still in production and still very popular in Brazil (As the Sega Master System III, but it's still the same basic hardware) - from 1987-2005 (and beyond).
 
  Wikipedia Sega MS article [wikipedia.org] .

Re:The Rub, 10 years down the road.... (0, Offtopic)

Niobium-41 (601054) | about 9 years ago | (#13233431)

Essentially what we get is another bullshit figure pulled from the ass of Sony to get people to buy what they're selling

Speaking of Sony Bullshit.. that "Realtime Killzone Demo" apparently not so realtime..

Quoted from the same article (pulled from http://www.shacknews.com/ [shacknews.com] )
"None of the game footage was taken from software running on systems using the final PS3 graphics chip, the Reality Synthesizer (RSX). ... The most stunning demo, Killzone PS3, was from an actual game engine running on an alpha kit--at less than five frames per second. The footage was sped up to 60fps in post-production."

Re:The Rub, 10 years down the road.... (1)

TheSneak (904279) | about 9 years ago | (#13233561)

5fps? That's ok, i get that much on doom3.

Re:The Rub, 10 years down the road.... (1)

TheVoice900 (467327) | about 9 years ago | (#13232673)

"talk to me in 10 years, when a new storage medium has come out ... and your PS3 is still using a storage format you can only find used on eBay."

Yeah, just like I have to go to eBay to find memory cards for the PSX used...

I know it's not 10 years old yet, but I can still find memory cards for it in plentiful supply and they don't appear to be about to disappear any time soon.

Re:The Rub, 10 years down the road.... (1)

oGMo (379) | about 9 years ago | (#13232769)

Now Sony has billed the Playstation3 as a 10-year device

The thing to realize about this is that it's nothing unusual for Sony. The PS1 was already 10 years (first shipped in 1994, still shipping millions in 2004 [slashdot.org] ). The PS2 was first shipped in 2000, and as they're pumping out games for it today with no end in sight, it'll probably be 2008-2010 before we see the last PSTwo out the door. Backward compatibility of the PS3 helps to encourage this, since even if someone doesn't have a PS1 or PS2, if they get a PS3, then they can still play those new PS2 games.

If the PS3 ships in 2006, I wouldn't be suprised still seeing it in 2016, but the PS4 will probably ship around 2011.

This won't be a problem at all. (1)

Firehawke (50498) | about 9 years ago | (#13232469)

Eh, it's irritating, but it's not a HUGE problem. I'll just run MGS3 or something on the PS3 to get an idea what the save format looks like, then I'll use execftps to yank all my PS2 saves, then lastly hand-reformat them to the memory stick filr structure. Shouldn't be too hard-- chances are it'll use the same directory/file structure, so I probably won't have to do anything more than just move the files as-is.

Re:This won't be a problem at all. (2, Funny)

Gr33nNight (679837) | about 9 years ago | (#13232541)

Tell that to my mother who enjoys playing Harvest Moon.

Re:This won't be a problem at all. (1)

IpalindromeI (515070) | about 9 years ago | (#13233350)

Tell your mother not to get rid of her PS2. Problem solved.

How hard would it be... (1)

wuie (884711) | about 9 years ago | (#13232511)

for Sony to make a slot for the old Memory cards (doesn't need to be in the front, it could be hidden), and make a small function that reads the old saves and writes them on the new disk?

They have the code.. they have the tech.. now all they need to do is implement this into the PS3 and save themselves a marketing nightmare.

Suicide (2, Interesting)

SewersOfRivendell (646620) | about 9 years ago | (#13232639)

Seems like Sony and MS are both playing "Let's see who can screw up the next console generation more!" This game may backfire if Nintendo's hardware beats expectations.

Re:Suicide (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 years ago | (#13234809)

" Seems like Sony and MS are both playing "Let's see who can screw up the next console generation more!""

Well you seem to have managed to find the one area MS actually is beating Sony...

I would love to hear someone list some area that MS isn't screwing up with the 360. So far it is turning out to be the biggest console fiasco ever. Makes the Dreamcast marketplace failure look not so bad.

Re:Suicide (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 years ago | (#13235625)

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. *wipes tears from eyes*

It's funny because its true!

Useless reading. (1)

TheSneak (904279) | about 9 years ago | (#13232683)

That was a pretty useless article if you ask me. Nothing new there and it was all speculation, speculation and more speculation.

Call me when you get some concrete info from sony themselves, instead of this "a freind of a freind said at e3 that they said that..."

Re:Useless reading. (1)

SeekerDarksteel (896422) | about 9 years ago | (#13233655)

I almost wonder if rumors like this are not leaked by the company behind the game on purpose, but diffused through several layers. This way Sony can judge people's reactions to the rumor while maintaining deniability. If people seem to not care they can go ahead, but if there's a lot of negative reaction they can always add the slot on there and save face by denying that they ever intended the PS3 to lack a PS2/PS1 memory card slot.

Flash drives (1)

CelticWhisper (601755) | about 9 years ago | (#13232686)

Am I the only one who thinks it would be great if even just one of these manufacturers built a system that could save games to a USB flash drive? More and more people are buying them, they're based on a decade-old standard that's been, for all intents and purposes, perfected, and they could potentially open up new worlds of fan-modding for console games (trading maps, custom characters, saves, etc.) If they're that concerned about piracy, all I can say is that I've yet to see a 50GB USB drive.

I know it can be done since the Codebreaker allows the updating of codes via the PS2's USB ports. So how's 'bout game saves? Hmm? Anyone? Bueller?

Re:Flash drives (1)

pthor1231 (885423) | about 9 years ago | (#13234475)

You haven't seen 50 GB USB drives?? Really, thats strange, because I have seen 50 GB USB drives, even sizes up to 250 GB. Granted they are external hard drives, but its still the same format as a USB Flash drive.

Backwards campatability vs Not (1)

834r9394557r011 (878286) | about 9 years ago | (#13232707)

Man you people b@$ch about some stupid stuff. I mean seriously, people. At least the old games will still work at all. Look at the 360, you are going to have to buy the game again if you want to play it on the new system. I think having to play the game again > is not such a huge deal. I think having to spend another $20-$40?!? for the same game again would call for the "wah" sound, and maybe a little bitching. Microsoft has the code for those games and could easily make it somewhat backwards compatible. I mean if they have to rewrite the games to play on the 360 in the first place, wouldn't it be easier to write one bunch of code in the OS rather than rewriting 20 games? Just be happy we will still get to enjoy FFIV on two HD screens :-)

Re:Backwards campatability vs Not (1)

Babbster (107076) | about 9 years ago | (#13233290)

What you say about buying Xbox games again for the Xbox 360 is just an old rumor - a lie, if I was less kind. According to the latest information available, the Xbox emulation in the 360 is planned to use the same discs already available, it will be optimized first for compatibility with the most popular games and will continue to be updated over time through Xbox Live as difficulties are worked out.

X360 backward compatibility is not going to be ideal but it's certainly not the mess you claim it to be.

Re:Backwards campatability vs Not (1)

Suddenly_Dead (656421) | about 9 years ago | (#13234635)

Definition of fanboy: See parent

Honestly. No one has even said that you have to buy the 360 games anew, just that not all games will work. I'm sure that all the ones I give a crap about will work, it's been said that the low sellers will be those that they won't focus on. Makes sense, no?

(At that, I don't have enough money for one HD screen at the moment, let alone two. AFAIK, it hasn't been said that FFIV will work with two anyways.)

Memory sticks!? (1)

thejez (845843) | about 9 years ago | (#13232724)

Anyone wonder why Sony even bothers with using memory sticks at all? Havent we evolved enough in the console market to expect a built in means for saving game data? Sony gets to continue to bilk you for the price of buying these little one generation piles of junk. Why?

Re:Memory sticks!? (1)

bleaknik (780571) | about 9 years ago | (#13233150)

To be honest, I don't like being forced to rely on internal storage for a console. You can't transfer anything off an X-Box without a memory card. Those run $30. You can't FTP in (Without modding). And even if you do own a memory card, certain games are too large to fit on the Wimpy 8 Megs.

My cousin's got an X-box that the DVD drive is making alarming clicking noises... he found a resale X-box for cheap, so he's been using that, but one of his gamesaves (Jade Empire?) is too large to be copied to his Memory Card, and once he gets it to his new system, there's no guarantee that the new system won't somehow fail.

I'm actually glad that Sony (Memory Stick) and Nintendo (SD) are using standard flash memory for their next gen systems...

Memory Sticks - not that bad (2, Insightful)

Master Of Ninja (521917) | about 9 years ago | (#13233652)

I have to disagree with people here. The Memory Sticks are not that bad. OK its a different standard to SD, but SD is equally proprietory. The MS and MSD actually work fairly well if you buy Sony equipment so it is quite interchangeable. In response to another poster the Duos should work with normal MS ports with the adaptor that comes with them.

The SD standard in itself if maybe a bit better as it does come slightly cheaper and is supported by more manufacturers. But the deriviatives are a joke - the miniSD and the b*stardised offsrpring the TransFlash. Especially for mobile phones it makes buying this haphazard as there is no guarantee that a standard will be in operation in the near future, especially with added 'convenience' of Nokia's reduced MMC.

In this way Sony's MS and MSD (with the increasing concentration on the Duo) seem more sane. It just works across the product lines esp with the PSP and the PS3 coming out. I'm sure someone will make an adaptor to convert the old cards anyway (the PS2 one being essentially a different form factor memory stick).

Re:Memory Sticks - not that bad (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 years ago | (#13234510)

dude, you got to pay 20-40% more!!! whytf would you choose to do that??!! and u say they work well w/sony devices? fuck them and fuck u! sony: compare aapl to sne the last couple of years and 86 the lame -as-shit format that noone in the entire world wants to fucking use. when i don't give a fuck about company bullshit i'll buy an xbox so quit pushing your bad luck

Nintendo (1)

ScaryFroMan (901163) | about 9 years ago | (#13233797)

Why does it seem like every announcement regarding the 360 or PS3 makes Nintendo look like they're doing the right thing?

Re:Nintendo (1)

cornface (900179) | about 9 years ago | (#13235123)

Probably because most of the posts about Nintendo are about how they're doing the wrong thing.

There must be balance.

Plan to sell more... PSPs? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 years ago | (#13234501)

Blatant attempt to sell more PSPs, as a device you can use to transfer your old saves onto the new files (with the help of your existing PS2 and it's USB port)... Even a DexDrive solution is less than useful, as how many people have a computer capable of reading MemoryStickDuo without a PSP (or other external reader), so you still can't get your saves to the PS3 without one of those. Scary.

Solution for psp owners (1)

Virtualtaco (848235) | about 9 years ago | (#13234676)

Make a utility available to get the saves off of the PS2 with a USB cable. Or if you were cool enough to purchase a Dexdrive you should have no problem to begin with. Either way... I can't imagine all of your savegames are going to get you into replaying your old games since you're posting about it complaining instead of playing them in the first place. I'm more likely to replay a game that I don't have every item or every level completed in before the ones i do.
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