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An Early Taste of OpenSUSE

timothy posted more than 9 years ago | from the open-suse-wide dept.

SuSE 233

Anonymous Coward writes "Finally the site OpenSUSE.org is up and includes some beta downloads. The stable version can be expected around September 2005. Looks like there are some differences between Novell's SUSE and Redhat's Fedora mentioned in the FAQ."

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FP! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#13283355)

FP!

First post? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#13283357)

First post?

novell.com already slashdotted?? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#13283358)

hope they arent running suse...

Re:novell.com already slashdotted?? (1)

CypherXero (798440) | more than 9 years ago | (#13283443)

First off, Novell.com isn't a link in the summary. Second, Novell.com works.

diffs? (2, Informative)

Ossifer (703813) | more than 9 years ago | (#13283367)

Looks like there are some differences between Novell's SUSE and Redhat's Fedora mentioned in the FAQ

Yast? It that it then? The FAQ answer doesn't exactly make the differences between opensuse and fedora sounds terribly large...

Re:diffs? (5, Informative)

rpdillon (715137) | more than 9 years ago | (#13283394)

Well, from TFFAQ:

The openSUSE project explicitly looks beyond the technical community to the broader non-technical community of computer users interested in Linux. The openSUSE project creates--through an open and transparent development process--a stabilized, polished Linux distribution (SUSE Linux) that delivers everything a user needs to get started with Linux. (SUSE Linux is consistently cited as the best-engineered Linux and the most usable Linux.) To fulfill its mission of bringing Linux to everyone, the openSUSE project makes SUSE Linux widely available to potential Linux users through a variety of channels, including a complete retail edition with end-user documentation. Only the openSUSE project refines its Linux distribution to the point where non-technical users can have a successful Linux experience.

So, more than simply YasT. One of the things that drove me away from Fedora was that it is publically acknowledged to be public grounds for vetting Red Hat's technology which will be the basis for RHEL. Novell is taking a very different approach when they indicate that OpenSuSE will be directed towards end users, and will focus on the user experience. That was never a focus of Fedora Core, and, IMHO, is why a lot of people are fed up with it.

Re:diffs? (1)

Ossifer (703813) | more than 9 years ago | (#13283402)

I wasn't aware of any grand uproar against Fedora by end users...

Re:diffs? (2, Insightful)

short (66530) | more than 9 years ago | (#13283421)

As there were never any. _end_users_.

Re:diffs? (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#13283508)

We were running RH (paid for) on several machines, then they dropped us like a rock.

    Next I found Gentoo...

Re:diffs? (1)

Cramer (69040) | more than 9 years ago | (#13283839)

I don't like gentoo... it's too easy to seriously screw up the system with emerge, and all but impossible to keep a set of machines running the exact same thing. (Yes, it's doable, but it's not pretty and takes one machine to be "it".)

It's kinda sad RedHat has gone to shit. They used to support sparc, sparc64, alpha, ppc, x86. Now, they con others into developing and testing their commercial product(s) and have abandoned everything but "PCs".

Re:diffs? (2, Informative)

homer_ca (144738) | more than 9 years ago | (#13283432)

"Only the openSUSE project refines its Linux distribution to the point where non-technical users can have a successful Linux experience."

Umm.. Ubuntu?

Re:diffs? (2, Interesting)

jdray (645332) | more than 9 years ago | (#13284171)

Umm.. Ubuntu?

Umm... Is Ubuntu supported? I'm not trolling, I seriously don't know. I'm thinking that Novell may be considering themselves "only" because it's a distro with support behind it, sort of deprecating every distro put together by... um... non-professionals. Not that I support the differentiation, I'm just guessing at what they mean.

Of course, that leaves one open to wonder about Xandros [xandros.com] . I've never used it, but it's reputed to be a very easy to use and approachable desktop OS and it's supported.

What really gripes me is that just this morning I ordered a SUSE 9.3 DVD from budgetlinuxcds.com. If I'd waited a month or so, I could have had the first openSUSE distro instead. $10 down the tubes, I guess.

Re:diffs? (1)

twener (603089) | more than 9 years ago | (#13284191)

> Umm... Is Ubuntu supported? I'm not trolling, I seriously don't know.

Afaik for 6 months. Ubuntu wants to release a *single* release with 2 years support only next year. *All* releases of SUSE Linux have and will be supported for 2 years after release.

Re:diffs? (5, Informative)

Digital Pizza (855175) | more than 9 years ago | (#13283491)

Actually I think that Fedora is pretty user-friendly. I've loved the Redhat distribution ever since 5.1 (I think). I still love the "user experience" of Fedora, meaning its GUI for preferences and system settings, and the programs menu.

It's unfortunate that some fundamental things about it suck to the point I'll sadly be forced to abandon it.

They've moved from simple config files to cryptic and often compressed XML files for no good reason that I can discern, making it a pain in the butt to edit certain configs from a terminal.

As far as I know, you still can't edit the Gnome menu from the GUI without doing a flakey hack.

The worst thing is that they cut off updates for each release when the new one comes out every six months. Upgrade installs are unreliable and leave out new features, meaning you have to do a fresh install every six months! This is unacceptable to me, and is what will, sadly, cause me to switch to something else.

I've used Suse before and liked it; I'm just too cheap to pay what they wanted for it each time a new version came out, and the FTP install never seemed to work for me (I kept losing my FTP connection during the long download). I look at OpenSuse with great interest - it just might take Redhat's place as the "good" free Linux distro with business support.

Re:diffs? (1)

olorinpc (729849) | more than 9 years ago | (#13283725)

Fully agreed... i used redhat for a long time till they dropped the reg version. Then once again used fedora because it had the old redhat feel. Suse tried once.. good... looking forward to seeing and possibly offering my users what they might have to offer.

Re:diffs? (1)

Cramer (69040) | more than 9 years ago | (#13283875)

Pay for SuSE? What do you get when you purchase a boxed set from SuSE? The same thing you can download from their ftp server(s) after a month or two, and some documentation noone ever reads. It's just like buying a copy of RedHat a few years ago -- before all this RHEL crap. I've used various versions at times and I've never spent a penny for any of them. Granted, new versions aren't available for download immediately, but they always end up on ftp. (minus any commercially licensed applications that, obviously, I don't miss.)

Re:diffs? (2, Interesting)

miyako (632510) | more than 9 years ago | (#13284154)

I generally pay for every other version of Suse. I do so for a couple of reasons. One is that downloading and burning the iso's or installing via ftp can be a pita compared to just having the disks. I also switch a lot of people over to Linux, and the user manuals can be helpful to people who are just starting with Linux. It's also amazing how far seeing a real retail box can go in convincing someone that Linux is worth trying (strangely enough people seem to be more comfortable with pirating software then with knowing that the software is actually free). I also like to support people who make products that I like. Buying a boxed set is one way of supporting the distro that I like.

Re:diffs? (3, Insightful)

proughlinux (906473) | more than 9 years ago | (#13284255)

ditto. I buy at least every other boxed version for the manuals, and to pay back those who are working their butts off to help my computers run so well.

Re:diffs? (1)

einhverfr (238914) | more than 9 years ago | (#13284266)

I haven't tried SuSE for a while (since 8.x)... At that point, I had finally abandoned SuSE for Red Hat a bit later.

I do look forward to the increased competition. YAST is hardly an open standard, but it may be a good configuration tool (assuming that some of the corner cases have improved since I tried it last).

However, there is one correction to your points though that I would like to make:

The worst thing is that they cut off updates for each release when the new one comes out every six months. Upgrade installs are unreliable and leave out new features, meaning you have to do a fresh install every six months! This is unacceptable to me, and is what will, sadly, cause me to switch to something else.

Hmm??? On my wife's FC3 system, I just did a yum update and got 124MB of updates. This is hardly cutting off updates when the new version comes out.

I will probably be running OpenSuSE on one of my systems in the near future. I welcome Novell's new-found focus on FOSS and the fact that they are clearly extending that focus even after the loss of Chris Stone some time ago. The competition will no doubt help make Fedora, Ubuntu, etc. even better. With any luck the combination of these players will bring Linux to the masses.

Re:diffs? (1)

BobVila (592015) | more than 9 years ago | (#13284203)

I understand the argument against Fedora Core, but why did they even mention Ubuntu? I thought end users are definitely their focus. Am I wrong?

Re:diffs? (1)

dancpsu (822623) | more than 9 years ago | (#13283412)

What makes the openSUSE project different from Fedora?

The openSUSE project explicitly looks beyond the technical community to the broader non-technical community of computer users interested in Linux. The openSUSE project creates--through an open and transparent development process--a stabilized, polished Linux distribution (SUSE Linux) that delivers everything a user needs to get started with Linux.

When compared specifically to Fedora, the openSUSE project embraces and develops several additional important open standards not included in Fedora, such as CIM (the Common Information Model), and YaST (a standard, open source configuration and management suite for Linux). Plus, the openSUSE project has a large desktop and usability effort, strengthened by many of the top open source GUI designers in the world.

So YaST is there and such, but it seems like they are discounting any need for more technical users. Isn't it the technical users that give something like this the boost it needs to get to be more usable? I thought the whole purpose of opening something up was for the technical users.

Re:diffs? (4, Insightful)

Karzz1 (306015) | more than 9 years ago | (#13283486)

So YaST is there and such, but it seems like they are discounting any need for more technical users. Isn't it the technical users that give something like this the boost it needs to get to be more usable? I thought the whole purpose of opening something up was for the technical users.

As I understood it, SuSE employed several KDE developers. I assume this talent went with the sale to Novell. The same Novell that has also recently purchased Ximian. I would say that if anyone in the Linux market had the wherewithal to polish the Desktop, it would be Novell/SuSE. Just my 2cents.

Eat our dogfood (1)

poptones (653660) | more than 9 years ago | (#13284276)

I never got this. Novell owns ximian and has all that pull on the gnome desktop and yet they still do not provide a very good gnome desktop and continue to focus on kde.

I tried a paid version of suse. It was very pretty and slick and had good encryption support built in when the only other decent competitor was mandrake but it still had so many glitches (like tvtime, the kde tv app - basically no tv support that worked) that I went back to mandrake. ...At least until ubuntu came out. Ubuntu's desktop isn't yet complete enough I would suggest it for newbie unless they were pretty dedicated, but I would still rank their overall stability (at least regarding warty) to exceed the version of suse I tried about a year ago.

Re:diffs? (1)

jackofallbrandnames (881785) | more than 9 years ago | (#13283704)

Isn't it the technical users that give something like this the boost it needs to get to be more usable? I thought the whole purpose of opening something up was for the technical users.

Perhaps taken for granted?

Re:diffs? (1)

nutshell42 (557890) | more than 9 years ago | (#13283436)

To fulfill its mission of bringing Linux to everyone, the openSUSE project makes SUSE Linux widely available to potential Linux users through a variety of channels, including a complete retail edition with end-user documentation. Only the openSUSE project refines its Linux distribution to the point where non-technical users can have a successful Linux experience.

I've never used Fedora* but judging from some of the comments here and on other boards Fedora is much but not polished. Also, the last SuSE version I've bought in a store was 6.3 (I think), perhaps it's changed but then their manuals were definitely worth the price if you were a linux newbie, most of those I've had are still distributed among friends I've converted to linux.

* note: Of all the different Linux distros out there there are only two that I actively dislike. One is Redhat (old story =) the other is userlinux (I don't like Perens, I don't like his attitude and his approach to the whole story and I think he should have been so honest to call userlinux "Linux for Business" instead. I mean it's the fscking title of his homepage). That doesn't mean that I've never said anything against other distros but that's mostly teasing of the fanboys (e.g. Ubuntu disciples, they're even worse than the Gentoo boys at the height of its popularity, probably because they don't spend 90% of their time compiling and therefore have more time for /. =).

Re:diffs? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#13283974)

I agree ! They are the same. In fact we could ( many of us ) start our own distros and tout the diffs but wouldn't that be a waste of time ? I just wiped my drive this week to simplyfly things ( been building my custom kernels for more than 5 years now ppc, sparc, alpha and more ). I tell you unless the distros slim down ( 1 cd is all you need ) than I am going to look elsewhere. The whole thing is getting to bloated for me. I love the GPL but when you make it impossible to download the distro ( 4 cds etc ) then I look elsewhere. I keep seeing a trend ( even in yaboot devel list I am on ) to make things bigger, people want more features and at more cost to the OS. I hope when we pass Microsoft in weight of the OS people will wake up. Novell just has to be "different" without being different ( LSB ). The LSB "Linux Standard Base" is good only if it can reduce size instead of redundency in libs. When are we going to start doing more assemby or embedding ? Those are the things that impress me ! Oh well guess it is the flavor of the week kind of OS ;) This week it is blueberry linux next week it will be raspberry. Start immitating BeOS, Inferno, or BlueBottle's OS size because they are keeping it small.

Re:diffs? (1)

DaZZl3R (703655) | more than 9 years ago | (#13284079)

I hate SUSE. I find Yast incredibly slow and unintuitive. I'd much rather do updates with an easy-to-use command line utility like yum. However, I too became frustrated with the 6 month window of support for Fedora. When I discovered CentOS, which is RedHat Enterprise Linux repackaged without RedHat's name and offered for free, I was hooked. You get all the benefit of a rock solid OS, with easy-to-find RPMs, and easy to keep updated.

Re:diffs? (1)

twener (603089) | more than 9 years ago | (#13284124)

afaik yum support is planned for a later beta. And you can also use apt-rpm.

Re:diffs? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#13284152)

I have used yum and worked with Duke developers ( working on yum ) and run yellowdog that switched from yum to apt-get. When yellowdog switched I too said bye bye as I was already running debian on one machine. I like debian and I see the Duke fellows work with and run CentOS ( the ones I worked with on Fink (Mac OS X project ). I would put apt above yum for package management.

Welcome (5, Funny)

Elitist_Phoenix (808424) | more than 9 years ago | (#13283369)

I for one Welcome our new Novell overlords, I would like to remind them that as a trusted programmer I could be helpful in rounding up others to toil in their underground coding labs.

You would think there are some differences (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#13283376)

considering that OpenSUSE and Fedora core are two different products.

OpenSuSE at Linux World San Fran (4, Interesting)

PenguinBoyDave (806137) | more than 9 years ago | (#13283392)

There was quite a lot of buzz around the Novell booth today regarding OpenSuSE in San Fran at Linux World. I am not a Novell employee, but as my booth is right across from theirs, the interest from the public was obvious...then again it could have been the pea-green free hats!

Re:OpenSuSE at Linux World San Fran (0)

NanoGator (522640) | more than 9 years ago | (#13283536)

"...then again it could have been the pea-green free hats!"

Yoo-rhine should only be green if you're Mr. Spock.

Re:OpenSuSE at Linux World San Fran (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#13283557)

Nonsense. If you are a copper-blooded lifeform green yoo-rhine is the last thing you'd want because you'd be losing all of your copper. This is like saying that an iron-blooded creature should have red yoo-rhine.

Re:OpenSuSE at Linux World San Fran (1)

NanoGator (522640) | more than 9 years ago | (#13283613)

"Nonsense. If you are a copper-blooded lifeform green yoo-rhine is the last thing you'd want because you'd be losing all of your copper. This is like saying that an iron-blooded creature should have red yoo-rhine."

This is why I hate making Red Dwarf quotes. It's like that one show that everybody here SHOULD have seen but there's always some git that didn't do their homework.

Re:OpenSuSE at Linux World San Fran (1)

Crashmaster007 (869327) | more than 9 years ago | (#13283543)

Free hats?!?! OMG! OpenSuSE rules! Actually I am rather enthused by it..

Re:OpenSuSE at Linux World San Fran (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#13283649)

Check out my new hat http://www.opensuse.org/images/e/eb/Xgonzo.jpg [opensuse.org]

Re:OpenSuSE at Linux World San Fran (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#13283961)

Look, it's Private Pyle from Full Metal Jacket!!!!

Re:OpenSuSE at Linux World San Fran (2, Funny)

Deadguy2322 (761832) | more than 9 years ago | (#13283706)

New improved Linux - With HAT!!!!!

how does it compare? (1)

RLiegh (247921) | more than 9 years ago | (#13283404)

How does OpenSUSE compare to OpenBSD or OpenSolaris which I can also afford to download?

Re:how does it compare? (0, Offtopic)

debilo (612116) | more than 9 years ago | (#13283427)

Yes, and how does it compare to OpenSSH and OpenNTPD, which we can also afford to download?

Re:how does it compare? (5, Interesting)

bigbadunix (662724) | more than 9 years ago | (#13283439)


It's sexy, it's stable, and has an emphasis on the desktop. I've used SuSE in one way, shape, or form since about 8.0. It's always been a reliable, well-put-together (although somewhat too 'commercialy' for me at times) system. Early provider of AMD64 support didn't hurt either. It's one linux distro that I never had an issue paying for, as they didn't go the "screw the users on pricing" or the "we're focusing on the server" attitudes that Red Hat did.

I use it in some instances as a lamp server, used to on the desktop(with great results), and have never been underwhelmed by it's stability and completeness.

If it weren't for OS X, I'd probably still be using it as my primary desktop. Bottom line is, use the right tool for the right job. Each system, OpenBSD, FreeBSD, GNU/Debian, NetBSD, Solaris, IRIX(gah!) each have their own place in the mix.

Re:how does it compare? (1)

joeljkp (254783) | more than 9 years ago | (#13283478)

How's its GNOME desktop? I've tried both GNOME and KDE, and I'm definitely in the market for a good GNOME distro.

Re:how does it compare? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#13283681)

I like Ubuntu [ubuntu.com] alot. It's an easy-to use Debian-based distro.

Re:how does it compare? (2, Interesting)

imemyself (757318) | more than 9 years ago | (#13283720)

Its been much better since they've purchased Ximian. SuSE and NLD both have (atleast IMO) pretty nice Gnome desktops. They feel a lot like Ximian Desktop.

Re:how does it compare? (2, Funny)

Cramer (69040) | more than 9 years ago | (#13283906)

Ok, I gotta ask... where the hell does IRIX fit? Using the CDs to level a table???

Namely (0)

TsukasaZero (850187) | more than 9 years ago | (#13283405)

Looks like there are some differences between Novell's SUSE and Redhat's Fedora mentioned in the FAQ."

Namely that the install color scheme has been changed from blue and grey to green and black.

Just a new name? (2)

cloudmaster (10662) | more than 9 years ago | (#13283415)

So, basically this is a new name for the FTP version of SuSE that's always been available for download a few weeks after the retail version hits the stores? Eh, I guess that's nice.

I like SuSE in general - they've always struck me as supporting the community because it's the right thing to do, rather than RedHat's feeling of being semi-forced to give back because it's good marketing and because of the GPL. Just my opinion, of course, but then, I spend days mostly working with RHEL (ugh)...

Re:Just a new name? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#13283643)

how would you get that impression, when RH has always released all their code GPL and SuSE only recently released YaST?

Re:Just a new name? (2, Informative)

rpdillon (715137) | more than 9 years ago | (#13284033)

No. They provide ISO's (both CDs and a DVD) for download, free of charge. The ISOs are images of a complete retail version of the product, despite the "eval" in the name.

Re:Just a new name? (1)

twener (603089) | more than 9 years ago | (#13284177)

It's a new name for the now open development process of SUSE Linux. The main difference for end-users will be that FTP installation and ISO images will be available about two weeks before the boxed retail versions in the shops rather than one month later.

Differences between fedora and suse? (1, Funny)

espergreen (849246) | more than 9 years ago | (#13283417)

Let me guess, you wear one and eat the other?

Great. (0, Troll)

ninja_assault_kitten (883141) | more than 9 years ago | (#13283429)

Just what we need, another freaking Linux distro.

Re:Great. (-1, Flamebait)

ninja_assault_kitten (883141) | more than 9 years ago | (#13283444)

Why mod it Troll? It's completely true. Having so many Linux distrobutions doesn't do anything positive for open source and/or Linux. It just reduces focus and bloated code by having to make applications portable across 500 freaking operating systems.

Re:Great. (2, Insightful)

HatofPig (904660) | more than 9 years ago | (#13283631)

Modded troll, then having your calm, reasonably put (albeit flawed) explination modded flamebait? Oh Snap!

As has been repeated time and time again, the whole point of OSS is to take something and expand on it in a new and creative way. Therefore, branching out and doing your own thing is what keeps it vibrant, interesting, and innovative. Plus, 99% of the time it only takes compiling the source on your specific distro (if the binaries aren't already provided) to get an application installed on it. Something that compiles on Suse will compile on Fedora will compile on Debian will compile on Slackware will compile on Gentoo. For the most part, there is only one operating system.

Yast is considered a feature of SuSE (4, Interesting)

Antique Geekmeister (740220) | more than 9 years ago | (#13283437)

YaST is the absolutely worst part of SuSE, but Novell is lauding it as one of their key features? YaST gets just about everything wrong: handling chroot cages with symlinks *OUT* of the chroot cage instead of *INTO* the chroot cage, an insistence on wrapping vendor software packages in badly written install scripts that are wildly inconsistent with the underlying RPM package management, the world's most complex and least organized auto-install system, and overfriendly GUI's that refuse to let you manage more than two kernels on one machine and overwrite your hand-edits? And that YaST package management and update system that doesn't have the concept of handling both an update and base OS package site, or allow unattended operation for cron scripts or kickstart installs? Novell should take the money they overpay the YaST team and give it to the author of fou4s, which actually works, and the http://packman.links2linux.de/ [links2linux.de] website which actually keeps packages like Mplayer up-to-date and compiled with all the options, instead of forcing you to recompile packages to actually contain all the available features built into the SRPM. And especially they should take the money away from their kernel team, who couldn't publish a working SRPM if their lives depended on it because they have this custom "build system" that actually prevents the SRPM's from being compilable without hand-editing.

They also pretend that their freely downladable versions of things are the same as their commercially published ones. Roughly half the packages are different: if you use the commercial installations, you cannot use the free mirror sites for package installations due to the YaST stupidities I mentioned and their inconsistent release numbers. This is why even if you buy SuSE licenses, you should always install from the free download sites, to keep good access to updates and consistent OS numbering with them.

Re:Yast is considered a feature of SuSE (4, Interesting)

debilo (612116) | more than 9 years ago | (#13283448)

Things must really have changed then. Back when I still used SuSE, I found YaST awesome and extremely helpful. I didn't make use of all its modules, but I never ran into problems. And quite often I hear others ask for YaST to be ported to their distro because they found it great when they saw it in action.

The FAQ is a bit weird, though - calling YaST a "standard" is a total exaggeration.

Re:Yast is considered a feature of SuSE (2, Interesting)

maxpublic (450413) | more than 9 years ago | (#13283538)

I don't know what color the sky is in your world, but SuSE is by far and away the easiest and most user-friendly of the distros. YAST really sets SuSE apart by being the best installation and configuration tool around. I've tinkered with just about every distro under the sun and I always come back to SuSE at the end of the day.

Max

Re:Yast is considered a feature of SuSE (3, Informative)

Cramer (69040) | more than 9 years ago | (#13283960)

For a seasoned, knowledgable system admin, YaST is a horrible mess. BUT, for the majority of people, who aren't sysadmin's 80hrs/wk, YaST is a very useful, powerful tool.

I'm an admin, so I absolutely hate the damned thing. It's a scripting language that has 99% of what it does hardcoded in a number of interdependant library packages -- God help you if you ever need to fix so much as one damned line of that shit. "YOU" recommends upgrading packages you don't even have installed...

Oh, and the ISO images available via ftp also contain different versions from the FTP tree. I was pretty pissed at having to mirror an extra 4+GB of shit because the DVD image has newer versions than the ftp tree. I mean, Jesus, who the fuck is managing their releases?

FEE FIE FOO FUMB (1)

infonography (566403) | more than 9 years ago | (#13284189)

I Smell the blood of a Gentoo bum. Yast is a hell of a lot better then endless config files and in obscure locations. Prefect? Hell no, but a good start. I have yet to see any Linux distro be bug free or completely ready. But the worst part of any Linux is the management. Yast starts well and for those willing to just start out then it's a good place to start. BTW, a lot of us are Admins here, being one does not make your words the absolute truth. Save that for the watercooler set. You have been so deep in system management your view is skewed. Not every linux user wants to fiddle every config file on the system just to get it to print files and run firefox.

So all these years... (1)

proughlinux (906473) | more than 9 years ago | (#13284290)

I've been using the world's worst linux admin system and didn't even know it? When do my computers self-destruct, anyway?

I just switched to Suse from Fedora (5, Interesting)

edyu (259748) | more than 9 years ago | (#13283440)

I've been a long time Redhat user starting with Redhat 6.0 all the way to Fedora Core 4. I was having a lot of problem with FC4 on my particular x86_64 machine so I went out to purchase the SuSe 9.3 Professional DVD and installed on another machine. What I found is that the default installation of SuSe is very good because it has a good balance of open/closed software that makes it very easy to use Linux as the primary work machine. After I got the hang of YaST I started to really like using it. It is more encompassing than Yum and seems like a very good balance for people who know how thing work but don't feel like always spending time treaking things.
Over all, I give high mark for SuSe for the engineering.
Of course there are still some problems with SuSe but so far I like it more than the current version of Fedora.

Re:I just switched to Suse from Fedora (1)

sabio (906020) | more than 9 years ago | (#13283612)

I have also been running Fedora for some time now, Core 3. I concur that there are some issues with Fedora. The update manager doesnt seem real stable and the time it takes to boot is downright ridiculous. I'm dual booting and XP boots much quicker. I have been contemplating reimaging to another distro, I currently run Ubuntu on my laptop but with this article and the good things I am hearing perhaps I will give SuSe a try.

Re:I just switched to Suse from Fedora (1)

gardyloo (512791) | more than 9 years ago | (#13283635)

Of course I don't know your architecture, etc., but I very much recommend Mepis, especially as you've used Ubuntu and are probably somewhat used to the apt system of updates/upgrades.

Re:I just switched to Suse from Fedora (1)

maximus_greece (834236) | more than 9 years ago | (#13283678)

I bought Suse to install on my AMD64 laptop. It installed without any problems, and everything was working okay. Only problem was it was running as slow as 32 bit windows. The problem was not with the distribution. The problem was Suse had too many thing in memory, so it had to go to swap more often and on my laptop HDD access could be bottle neck. I switched to Gentoo, and it couldnt get any better. I do get occasional swap access but its a "significant" improvement in perfomance because it access swap less often.

Re:I just switched to Suse from Fedora (2, Interesting)

anandrajan (86137) | more than 9 years ago | (#13283781)

I switched to SuSE 9.1 from redhat 9 in May 2004 and right now, I'm running SuSE 9.3 Pro x86_64 version. Took a while to get the hang of SuSE but am now reasonably aware of how things are done.

Still,

1. I couldn't find an easy way to run both 32bit and 64bit kernels via YaST.

2. I use apt/synaptic and the gwdg.de repository to install all the missing pieces - dvdcss, transcode, mjpegtools, etc. and particularly in SuSE 9.3, this approach feels like a bandaid solution. For example, I've lost the ability to burn CDs to mp3 in the KDE filemanager and have to use KAudioCreator or the command line to accomplish this task.

3. Ever since I updated firefox to 1.0.6, crashes have increased - probably due to a misconfigured flash plugin and I don't know how to fix this problem. Reinstalling and updating via YaST didn't help.

4. Back in SuSE 9.2, the CDROM would open at random and there was no way of fixing this. The fix came out a month later.

5. The artsd sound daemon (version 1.4.1-3) mysteriously dies every once in a while and reports a CPU overload error. Weird.

6. Fonts are just not as good as they were in redhat. Some webpages have font bugs.

Despite all this, I like SuSE and will stick with it. However, when compared to a Mac OS X Tiger G5 box, it does have too many problems.

One thing the "FAQ" is missing (-1, Troll)

layer3switch (783864) | more than 9 years ago | (#13283469)

Red Hat/Fedora : Leader
SuSE/OpenSuSE : Follower

---
"put your tail behind your rear and walk the path, then you may see more things... their way."

Re:One thing the "FAQ" is missing (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#13283497)

Red Hat/Fedora : Leader in bugs
SuSE/OpenSuSE : Follower far far way behind

Re:One thing the "FAQ" is missing (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#13283545)

SCO/UnixWare: Leader
Red Hat/Fedora: Follower

Re:One thing the "FAQ" is missing (1)

jackofallbrandnames (881785) | more than 9 years ago | (#13283766)

Red Hat/Fedora : Leader
SuSE/OpenSuSE : Follower


Novell's never been a follower. They hold their own very well.

ISOs? (3, Interesting)

datadriven (699893) | more than 9 years ago | (#13283470)

So are there ISO images or do you still need to take several hours doing an FTP install?

Yes there are (2, Informative)

Original Buddha (673223) | more than 9 years ago | (#13283605)

9.3 is 5 cd's and 10.0 is 4 cd's.

Re:Yes there are (1)

twener (603089) | more than 9 years ago | (#13284096)

10.0 release will likely not have only 4 CDs, the beta doesn't contain Java and OOo for example. All 10.0 packages will only fit again on a DVD.

Re:ISOs? (1)

mecz (794820) | more than 9 years ago | (#13283637)

There are actually a lot of mirrors [novell.com] where you can download the latest SuSE DVD / CD ISOs.

Those arent ISOs you dolt (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#13284014)

that's just the kernel source links
eeesh.

now where is the 10.0 ISO?

Re:Those arent ISOs you dolt (2, Informative)

core_blimey (168748) | more than 9 years ago | (#13284115)

The link does indeed lead to the ISO's or at least the 9 series release ISOs. Go to one of the mirrors and in i386/current/iso directory you'll find the install images as the original poster requested. :)

As for the 10 ISOs, try the link "includes some beta downloads" in the article which takes you to the site with both the torrent and direct 10 Beta ISO images.

Was that what you were after?

Desktop (2, Informative)

Eightyford (893696) | more than 9 years ago | (#13283477)

For those of you like me wondering what the desktop looks like, I found this image on of regular SUSE linux:

SUSE DESKTOP from OSDir.com [eightyford.com]

And I'm quite aware that the desktops are highly configurable and very much the same on most distributions.

Re:Desktop (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#13283525)

Wow...that's quite a desktop, indeed! Almost too pretty to be useful.

Re:Desktop (1)

Nigel_Powers (880000) | more than 9 years ago | (#13283542)

Hey...it's me again. I'm so stoned right now...I'm reasoning why I wouldn't like a desktop like that...

It's like, everything you'd need while using the computer is right there within a quick scroll-click. While this has a superior "star trek"-like efficiency about it, it makes a computing session less satisfying. There's no awakening of the primal hunting instincts...you need a calc....quick, open up a shell, or find that icon with the gui...a slight delay before the kill, if you will.

God that was some good weed!

Re:Desktop (1)

mecz (794820) | more than 9 years ago | (#13283664)

The SuSE desktop in the parent post is a pretty highly themed one (superkaramba etc.).

By default (i.e. after installation) it looks like this [osdir.com] .

4 CDs? (2, Interesting)

theantix (466036) | more than 9 years ago | (#13283503)

I guess I've been spoiled by using Ubuntu where you only need the one CD to get things working and then download the rest. Can anyone tell me if all four CDs are actually needed?

Re:4 CDs? (2, Informative)

(H)elix1 (231155) | more than 9 years ago | (#13283674)

Can anyone tell me if all four CDs are actually needed?

Yup. Mostly disk one and two, but I always seemed to pick an install that would require a few packages off the other two CD's. Best to download all the ISO images.

Re:4 CDs? (2, Informative)

Curmudgeonlyoldbloke (850482) | more than 9 years ago | (#13283971)

No, there's a 50Mb install CD that's downloadable. Grab that, and let the rest of the installation install over the wire overnight.

Re:4 CDs? (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#13284089)

The beta releases don't have their files sorted on CD yet, so you need all 4 CDs if you install from CD.

Biophysics (2, Interesting)

MyLongNickName (822545) | more than 9 years ago | (#13283519)

Why does Anonymous Cowards' link go to user Biophysics?

Incendiary Story (5, Funny)

stare_at_the_sun (884017) | more than 9 years ago | (#13283560)

I have taken the liberty of checking out the author of this story. It seems that this "Anonymous Coward" fellow has very long a history of all sorts of trolls, offtopics and soforth. He is quite obviously trying to incite a flaming distro war. Pay him no mind.

(btw - just to set the record straight: you can have your redhat and suse. Everybody knows Linspire is the most hardcore distro out there...)

Re:Incendiary Story (0, Offtopic)

strider44 (650833) | more than 9 years ago | (#13284061)

I love slashdot messages that accuse someone else of being a troll then gives one of the biggest trolling messages I can think of in brackets at the end of the post.

(Just to set the record straight: Linix and Apple suck, Windows rules all. They both would have the same security problems if they had Windows' market share.)

The distro for a drunken Alladin (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#13283599)

"Open SUSE" Sounds like a drunk person saying "Open Seasame"

Debian (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#13283786)


I would suggest Debian. We moved from RH to Debian Sarge and my only regret we haven't done this sooner.

How's the media and IM? (2, Insightful)

zogger (617870) | more than 9 years ago | (#13283793)

Out of the box? If this is for "the masses" guy, joe bob is going to want to mash ANY media link and a player popup and play it, and Little Suzy on her Suse box will want to IM her friends immediately.

With no extra downloading/tweaking/hoop-jumping.

The goal (near as I can see it anyway, YMMV) isn't to match windows or mac, it's to be *better* with a default install.

Oh yeah this is user friendly (1)

syousef (465911) | more than 9 years ago | (#13283807)

Okay,

How is having to update just to get Java and Open Office user friendly? I smell marketting BS *holds nose*

From:
http://www.opensuse.org/index.php/Download [opensuse.org]
Please note that the OSS edition or SUSE Linux 10.0 do only contain open source software. Therefore some packages do miss in SUSE Linux 10.0 OSS distribution. This does include Java and all depending packages like OpenOffice.org.

Java and OpenOffice.org packages can get installed afterwards by adding the following repository to the installation sources in YaST: ftp://ftp.opensuse.org/pub/opensuse/distribution/S L-10.0-OSS-beta1/inst-source-java/ [opensuse.org]


From the FAQ:
The openSUSE project explicitly looks beyond the technical community to the broader non-technical community of computer users interested in Linux. The openSUSE project creates--through an open and transparent development process--a stabilized, polished Linux distribution (SUSE Linux) that delivers everything a user needs to get started with Linux. (SUSE Linux is consistently cited as the best-engineered Linux and the most usable Linux.) To fulfill its mission of bringing Linux to everyone, the openSUSE project makes SUSE Linux widely available to potential Linux users through a variety of channels, including a complete retail edition with end-user documentation. Only the openSUSE project refines its Linux distribution to the point where non-technical users can have a successful Linux experience.

MOD parent down- That's the developer version.... (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#13283924)

sigh

Released Version

SUSE Linux 9.3 features an easy-to-install Linux operating system that lets you browse the Web, send e-mail, chat with friends, organize digital photos, play movies and songs, and create documents and spreadsheets. You can even use it to host a Web site or blog, create a home network, and develop your own applications. It is the most recent stabilized, fully integrated edition of SUSE Linux. If you are looking for a stable version of Linux to run on your personal computer or home server, this is the best choice.

        Note: This version of SUSE Linux contains some proprietary components such as Adobe Acrobat Reader, RealNetworks RealPlayer, Sun Java Runtime Environment and Macromedia Flash Player.

============

Development Build

Currently, SUSE Linux 10.0 Beta 1 (code name: Prague) is an unsupported, open source only, preliminary edition of SUSE Linux that contains bleeding-edge packages and represents the latest development snapshot. If you intend to test for bugs or contribute patches, this version is for you.

        Note: Development snapshots are sometimes unstable. Before installing the latest development build, we recommend that you read the list of most annoying bugs. ...

Please note that the OSS edition or SUSE Linux 10.0 do only contain open source software. Therefore some packages do miss in SUSE Linux 10.0 OSS distribution. This does include Java and all depending packages like OpenOffice.org.

Java and OpenOffice.org packages can get installed afterwards by adding the following repository to the installation sources in YaST: ftp://ftp.opensuse.org/pub/opensuse/distribution/S L-10.0-OSS-beta1/inst-source-java/ [opensuse.org]

========

Geeze if you won the lotry when it was 1 million bucks you'd comaplin that it was 2 million last week.

Re:MOD parent down- That's the developer version.. (1)

syousef (465911) | more than 9 years ago | (#13284059)

Geeze if you won the lotry when it was 1 million bucks you'd comaplin that it was 2 million last week

Nice analogy, and I would but...

Only if they were advertising this week's lotery as 2 million, when in fact it was 1 million.

Get back in your box.

Re:MOD parent down- That's the developer version.. (1)

syousef (465911) | more than 9 years ago | (#13284199)

By the way read your own post.

Please note that the OSS edition or SUSE Linux 10.0 do only contain open source software. Therefore some packages do miss in SUSE Linux 10.0 OSS distribution. This does include Java and all depending packages like OpenOffice.org.

NOT the developer version, the open version.

SUSE Linux 9.3 is NOT openSUSE.

So yeah, go mod yourself down.

21st century linux? (4, Interesting)

Space_Soldier (628825) | more than 9 years ago | (#13283896)

This is not a troll. This is what I believe that users want: the Firefox model.

Maybe Linux will evolve into the 21st century with Novell and SUSE.
My ideal Linux distro:

  • 1 CD (less than 250 MiB)
  • Gobo linux [gobolinux.org] style file system hierarchy (mac style)
  • YaST
  • Only base KDE/base gnome
  • base system (system binaries)
  • No other applications (exactly, don't need 10 text editors, 5 databases, 20 audio players, etc.)
  • All programs are provided by their developers directly via Autopackage [autopackage.org] or BitRock, and other windows-like installers sice no one in the linux community seems to like app folders


My next computer will be a Mactel.

failzor5! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#13283947)

United Sta7es of [goat.cx]

Marketing rubbish. (2, Interesting)

paul.schulz (75696) | more than 9 years ago | (#13283983)

The FAQ in question says:

There are also many other significant open source projects, such as Debian and Ubuntu, that serve active user and development communities. Generally speaking, these open source projects focus on engineering-centric issues that serve their technical community of Linux developers and users.

The openSUSE project explicitly looks beyond the technical community to the broader non-technical community of computer users interested in Linux. ... (snip) ...

Only the openSUSE project refines its Linux distribution to the point where non-technical users can have a successful Linux experience.


As a rebuttle.. I am an incredibly happy user of Ubuntu, and I have seen non-technical users also enjoy using it, whether this is via TheOpenCD (now a Ubuntu LiveCD), or on a Ubuntu desktop.

Ubuntu's user community is also actively refining the distribution for the Education market (edubuntu) and additional usability through KDE (keduntu), and well as on different hardware architectures (eg. the Mac Mini).

While there is always room of another specifically customised and targeted distribution, broad sweeping statements like the above just don't hold.

Novell's SUSE and openSUSE are aimed at providing an easy to use and maintain, site-wide contant installation base. These goals are good for corporate environments (business and non-business alike), but there are other ways. It will be interesting to see how Novell seeks to control the outcomes of openSUSE, as it attempts to let go of control at the same time.

For anyone who downloads this ... (1)

timothy (36799) | more than 9 years ago | (#13284195)

If you have a wireless USB device (or a USB wireless device ;)), I'd appreciate knowing if it works, and with how much tweaking, under this version of SUSE. I just got email after an inquiry I sent to a writer who wrote about LiveCDs working with USB wireless devices, and he tells me that PC-OS (Mandrake based Live CD) works with his USB devices, though I have not yet replied to inquire which one/s.

Anyone else frustrated by wireless USB on Linux? :)

Cheers,

Tim

Re:For anyone who downloads this ... (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#13284272)

Mod this fucker down.

Suse Linux (2, Interesting)

Allnighterking (74212) | more than 9 years ago | (#13284236)

SuSE Linux .... now with open source. Am I alone in seeing the irony here. Somehow it seems that Novel is teaching SuSE how community and Open Source work. Though in the long run it is nice to see the return. Novel opened Yast, and now they are pushing SuSE back towards its roots. Kinda nice in a way.
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