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Quake 3: Arena Source GPL'ed

CowboyNeal posted more than 9 years ago | from the flawless-victory dept.

Quake 485

inotocracy writes "At John Carmack's Quakecon 2005 keynote he promised that the Quake 3 Arena source code would soon be released-- turns out he wasn't just pulling our leg! Today it was released, weighing in at 5.45mb, it makes for a quick download and a whole lotta fun. Developers, start your compilers!"

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UT forever. (-1, Offtopic)

SkankinMonkey (528381) | more than 9 years ago | (#13361586)

Tinyyyyy. I'd rather have the Unreal source though

Re:UT forever. (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#13361593)

How big is the game engine that you wrote? 5 megs is a lot of code.

Re:UT forever. (1)

varmittang (849469) | more than 9 years ago | (#13361657)

Just think of it this way, 5 MB of code turns into a full CD/DVD of gaming.

Re:UT forever. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#13361672)

Just think of it this way, 5 MB of code turns into a full CD/DVD of gaming.

No it doesn't. The CD contains the game graphics that take a lot more space than the compiled binary. But anyways 5 MB is a lot of code.

Re:UT forever. (1)

ciroknight (601098) | more than 9 years ago | (#13361694)

Pfft. 5 MB of code turns into *at most* 100MB of game binary, and that's being way, way generous. I haven't compiled it yet myself, but I'm expecting around 20-50MB.

It's the textures and models and sound that drive up the cost of the diskspace with 3D games like Quake 3. Even with texture and sound compression, and some kind of model compression, these are still huge files, and the more compressed they are, the worse your game will perform having to do decompression on the fly. Why else do you think gamers need computers with a gig of ram and a 256 MB video card these days?

Re:UT forever. (1)

varmittang (849469) | more than 9 years ago | (#13361727)

Ok, what I meant was this 5 MB of code, which is the engine for the game, ends up producing a full game, which we all know has graphics and sounds that take up the majority of the space. That its looks so smal against the ending product, but is a lot of code. I guess I was being poetic, but no one picked up on it.

Re:UT forever. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#13361601)

Which of the engines and why?

Re:UT forever. (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#13361604)

Tiny!? I'd like to see you write over 5mb worth of code.

Re:UT forever. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#13361653)

You're speaking of writing 5 MB code like it's something amazing... It's nothing special really... A product at work is coincidentally 4.9 MB of source code, resources excluded. But yes, it may (or may not) be a bunch of code for a game engine, I'm personally a bit unsure of that. But an impressive amount of code? Not even close.

Re:UT forever. (1)

FLAGGR (800770) | more than 9 years ago | (#13361723)

5MB of code.... in a zip. Thats like 30mb of code. Also, the code to the engine is alot more complicated then what you do at work (well, at least the odds are it is) and thats why Carmack is a millionaire and builds rockets for fun.

Re:UT forever. (1)

LosManos (538072) | more than 9 years ago | (#13361654)

hejdig.

>Tiny!? I'd like to see you write over 5mb worth of code.

"5 mb of code." Wow! I guess that is how they make the conductors narrower and narrower in the processors!

/OF

Re:UT forever. (1)

Ann Elk (668880) | more than 9 years ago | (#13361665)

Actually, it's a 5MB ZIP archive. Expanded, it yields about 23MB, including 10MB of .c sources. Like you said, definitely not "tiny".

Re:UT forever. (1)

Taladar (717494) | more than 9 years ago | (#13361690)

Compressed 5 MB should be a lot more for text when uncompressed.

Re:UT forever. (5, Informative)

PsychicX (866028) | more than 9 years ago | (#13361680)

It's 5MB after it's been compressed into a zip. As you may or may not know, zip compresses text really well.

The uncompressed size of the source is just over 35MB.

Re:UT forever. (1)

PsychicX (866028) | more than 9 years ago | (#13361704)

Actually, sorry. I forgot I did complete builds of all of the build targets. The archive is definitely less than 35MB.

Re:UT forever. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#13361748)

As a minor contributer to that, and a few other Unreal mod projects I think know where there confusion might arise over source density.

As in many other games, there's basically several 'layers' in which to code. The source engine, optimised C, often very small - less than a meg like a kernel. Then the API 'world' interface. In Unreal this is Uscript, which is basically Java with tweaks for concurrent replication and distributed garbage collection. The bulk of any finished game is written here although modders often tweak the engine source, as did TTR, Strikeforce and some of the Unreal1/UT modders.
Actually collision detection is the most tweaked thing here. Lastly, and not always present is the game description, which although an interface to a world editor actually generates code to place the actors etc within a BSP world, so its more than just pure map data. Anyway, there's how you end up with 30+ Meg of code in a game mod. Very little of it is pure C.

Re:UT forever. (2, Informative)

yanos (633109) | more than 9 years ago | (#13361684)

That's code we're talking about. There is no map, meshs or textures into this, just the code, no data. So it's basicly 5 megs of text into a zipped archive.

That's not tiny at all.

Source Source (-1, Offtopic)

tonsofpcs (687961) | more than 9 years ago | (#13361592)

That sounds great, but when will we get Source's source?

Re:Source Source (4, Funny)

The Ultimate Fartkno (756456) | more than 9 years ago | (#13361608)

October 2, 2003, if I read my log... er, recall correctly.

Re:Source Source (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#13361711)

Umm...how exactly is this flamebait?

Re:Source Source (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#13361742)

It is flamebait because we all know that Valve sucks. Obviously!

Ha ! Bit late uh. (5, Funny)

88NoSoup4U88 (721233) | more than 9 years ago | (#13361594)

Releasing the source several years after the game is released, how lame !

Take a look at VALVe, at least they released the source of Half-Life 2 before the game was released...



Ohwait...

Re:Ha ! Bit late uh. (3, Informative)

Ruud Althuizen (835426) | more than 9 years ago | (#13361732)

Mirrors can be found here [icculus.org] and here [3ddownloads.com] .
A FreeBSD port can also be found here [freebsd.org] , made by the guy who helped with the FreeBSD XBOX port.

So... (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#13361600)

Any download mechanism that ISN'T thoroughly lame? Shit, I count seven or eight clicks just to get to the goddamn waiting screen and even then they say that it's "capped at 50k/s".

Fuck, this is what bittorrent was invented for! Somebody get tracking this, pronto!

Re:So... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#13361622)

Well it was actually released at ftp.idsoftware.com, but since that's overloaded it made good sense to post the link to FileShack, since that can probably take the additional strain of a Slashdotting.

You swear too much.

My first hack (5, Funny)

daserver (524964) | more than 9 years ago | (#13361606)

#define cdkey_correct 1

Mirror, sans registration... (5, Informative)

Dave2 Wickham (600202) | more than 9 years ago | (#13361611)

If you don't want to register, but also don't want a capped download: Demon FTP [demon.co.uk] .

Re:Mirror, sans registration... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#13361677)

Wow! Downloaded in 10 seconds. That's quite the mirror!

Re:Mirror, sans registration... (3, Informative)

ctr2sprt (574731) | more than 9 years ago | (#13361698)

And if you like BitTorrent: FileRush [filerush.com] .

porting (5, Insightful)

jaavaaguru (261551) | more than 9 years ago | (#13361613)

I wonder what the most bizarre platform this can be ported to now is?

Re:porting (5, Funny)

ciroknight (601098) | more than 9 years ago | (#13361642)

I dunno about you, but I'm firing up the compiler on my toaster just as soon as I get home.

Re:porting (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#13361645)

Windows XP isn't bizarre enough for you?

Re:porting (1)

Hinhule (811436) | more than 9 years ago | (#13361692)

Hmm I wonder if DOOMs code is out and about. I also wonder how fast that would be or was ported to a pacemaker.

Re:porting (2, Informative)

m50d (797211) | more than 9 years ago | (#13361703)

Doom's been around for ages, and runs on the ipod for starters.

Re:porting (1)

n3k5 (606163) | more than 9 years ago | (#13361721)

Doom's been around for ages, and runs on the ipod for starters.
Runs? At 3 to 4 fps, let's say it strolls.

Re:porting (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#13361795)

the NetBSD Toaster??

Re:porting (1)

timeOday (582209) | more than 9 years ago | (#13361806)

I don't know, is it the whole playable game, or just the engine? Didn't they in the past release the engine with no maps, textures, or sounds?

Real download link (5, Insightful)

cortana (588495) | more than 9 years ago | (#13361614)

Anyone fancy posting a link to the actual download, rather than yet another javascript-implemented, advert-laden bullshit fest, registration required download portal?

Re:Real download link (5, Informative)

cortana (588495) | more than 9 years ago | (#13361649)

Never mind, here's a link for UK readers [blueyonder.co.uk] .

Re:Real download link (1)

QuantaStarFire (902219) | more than 9 years ago | (#13361661)

Try here [idsoftware.com] .

Unless, of course, the /. effect is upon id's servers.

Re:Real download link (1)

Dave2 Wickham (600202) | more than 9 years ago | (#13361678)

id's FTP server doesn't need to have the /. effect to be really slow, in my experience. I tend to treat it as a last resort, when nobody else has the file I need (which is basically hardly ever).

Re:Real download link (-1, Flamebait)

HD Webdev (247266) | more than 9 years ago | (#13361681)

Anyone fancy posting a link to the actual download, rather than yet another javascript-implemented, advert-laden bullshit fest, registration required download portal?

Damn these people on teh internet that acually want to get money to pay for their equipment and bandwidth!

Mod me to Hell, I don't care. I'm sick of people wanting a free ride for everything.

Re:Real download link (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#13361749)

There are ways of going about it rather than making a page unusable crap. Besides I'm more likely to click on an ad if I stick around. Rather than saying fuck this and moving elsewhere.

Re:Real download link (-1, Offtopic)

rwven (663186) | more than 9 years ago | (#13361755)

that's an idea you'll not gain wuick support on while surfing on a zealously pro-linux site. The words "not free" are an abomination. :-P However, popups are a vile and terrible evil. And those moron activex deals that automatically try to install themselves when you visit a site are vile as well. I use firefox... Blocked popups and none of that activex crapf.

BugMeNot (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#13361618)

Remember, http://www.bugmenot.com/ [bugmenot.com] to get the download at more than 50KBps without having to sign up.

hey can i complain too (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#13361619)

every time something gets released for free i loved to gripe and complain about something totally ancillary, like the fact that i cant get it fast enough...

and then i entered the second grade.

So we will see the GBA and PSP version (0)

cybrthng (22291) | more than 9 years ago | (#13361626)

next week or so?

Re:So we will see the GBA and PSP version (1)

FLAGGR (800770) | more than 9 years ago | (#13361668)

try DS, not GBA, unless you want sidescrolling Q3A

Re:So we will see the GBA and PSP version (1)

cybrthng (22291) | more than 9 years ago | (#13361745)

that's what i meant.. ds.. brainfart. not used to working this shift

Hmm (5, Informative)

PsychicX (866028) | more than 9 years ago | (#13361628)

I've been poking around the source since yesterday afternoon (late as usual slashdot) and it's generally MUCH cleaner than Q2. Things are well organized, categorized, and sensible. The id penchant for clumping a dozen header files into just one continues, but overall it's easy to find the code you're looking for. Hell, it took me 3 days to find the BSP code in Quake 2 because they had called it model_t or some such meaningless thing. I can see why Q3 was so popular for licensing, despite being in C. Indeed, it's some of the cleanest C code I've seen laid out to date. Naturally there are hacks here and there, and a few very weird design things...and the C versions of what would in C++ be inheritance and aggregation are hilarious. Overall though, I think this code is going to go a lot farther than Q1 or Q2 source ever did. Compared to everything else out of id, this source is really quite nice. No stretches of pages of uncommented assembly code. Most functions have documentation if it's not obvious what they do. All of the members of the major engine structs are well commented, for the most part.

In short, I like. 1 thumb up. (Hey, it's still C, and I'm a C++ guy in and out.)

Re:Hmm (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#13361658)

In short, I like. 1 thumb up. (Hey, it's still C, and I'm a C++ guy in and out.)

Get with the times, man. In South Korea (and at id) only old people use C++. C is the newer, faster one that every young pers-- oh, wait a minute...

Re:Hmm (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#13361667)

Get with the times, man. Only old people use that joke, in South Korea...

oh yeah...

Re:Hmm (1)

LnxAddct (679316) | more than 9 years ago | (#13361756)

Hey, I've never poked around in any quake source, but was thinking of giving this a look. Is this just a graphics engine? Or does it have physics code too? Maybe even code for networking,or any other little tidbits? If its just the graphics engine, I don't need it because I have Ogre, even if its graphics+physics, i could still use Ogre+ODE. I'm just trying to figure out what advantage the quake source gives me and if I should even spend time giving it a go (Oh another big thing is, does it handle terrains well, or just indoor environments?). Thanks.
Regards,
Steve

Re:Hmm (1)

FLAGGR (800770) | more than 9 years ago | (#13361766)

It's everything you need to compile all of quake 3 arena, except obviously the datafiles. All the code, physics AI etc.

Re:Hmm (3, Interesting)

bani (467531) | more than 9 years ago | (#13361767)

Indeed, it's some of the cleanest C code I've seen laid out to date.


Lollerskates.

Cleaner than q1 or q2 maybe, but it is not really a good example of clean / well written C code in general.

For example, take a look at CL_DemoFilename() for some real "OMGWTFBBQ".

I can't tell if that code is serious or a joke. But it's there.

As for stretches of pages of uncommented assembly code -- it's still there. See BoxOnPlaneSide() in game/q_math.c for example. Or S_WriteLinearBlastStereo16() in client/snd_mix.c.

I really wouldn't use quake3 source as an example of well formatted / readable code. :-)

Re:Hmm (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#13361800)

LOL SOMETHINGAWFUL HUMOUR LOL

Re:Hmm (1)

justins (80659) | more than 9 years ago | (#13361788)

Naturally there are hacks here and there, and a few very weird design things...and the C versions of what would in C++ be inheritance and aggregation are hilarious.

Any examples? Sounds sort of like BS.

Unreal Engine 4 (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#13361633)

In other news, Epic confirmed that they already have a working version of their new-new engine Unreal Engine 4. http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=60 584 [eurogamer.net]

It seems that they've been working on it for the past 2 years. I knew Tim Sweeney was good, but it seems Epic will be the one pushing 3D tech over the next few years. So it's 2 games using D3 tech for Carmack and 20+ games for Sweeney (IIRC all Ubisoft games will use UE3 so that's like 20-30 games not to mention all the other 15+ UE3 games already announced).

Re:Unreal Engine 4 (2, Informative)

PsychicX (866028) | more than 9 years ago | (#13361673)

WTF does D3 have to do with this, or UE3 for that matter? According to the timestamps in the source, the last time this code was touched by id (not counting preparations for GPL release) was 2002. And the number of games based on Q3 tech...it's a massive portion of the industry. If you play any FPSes, you've probably played a game based on the Q3 engine. Call of Duty, Jedi Academy, and Jedi Outcast, for example, are fairly well known examples.

Re:Unreal Engine 4 (1)

JimmehAH (817552) | more than 9 years ago | (#13361679)

But they've not even released a game using UE3 yet!

Christ...

Re:Unreal Engine 4 (2, Insightful)

FLAGGR (800770) | more than 9 years ago | (#13361706)

Chances that UE3 will be GPL'd: 0
Chances that Doom3 will eventually be open source (minus that code they had to license or something): 1

Carmack kics Sweeney's ass. By the way, doom3 etc was designed for - you guessed it - doom3, while UE3 is designed to be used as an engine for lots of games, so its not a fair comparision. But hey, if we're going to throw around numbers, how bout you take a guess at how many games have used the Quake engines? It's pretty damn high.

p.s. Ubisoft using your engine isn't exactly a selling point. Most of their games are shit tastical. Maybe if they're not coding the engine they'll be able to focus on not sucking, maybe.

Do stores still have the game? (3, Interesting)

m50d (797211) | more than 9 years ago | (#13361635)

I'd like to get it but don't shop online (I know, I know, I'm being a fool), and I haven't been able to find it anywhere, even second hand. It looks like it was never released on Sold Out or Xplosiv or anything like that. Anyone know if there are plans to do any sort of re-release?

Re:Do stores still have the game? (2, Informative)

FTDFTD (859828) | more than 9 years ago | (#13361686)

I found it at Walmart, I believe, for $10 a few months back. I'd assume they still have it.

Thank you (5, Insightful)

TheGreatDonkey (779189) | more than 9 years ago | (#13361640)

In this day and age of everyone trying to patent this, litigate that, and everything in between, it's refreshing to see a company, that really doesn't have any motive to make any money off of this, AND in an industry where this concept seems somewhat unusual, release its source code, instead of letting this go off into some useless void. Actions like can only help the industry as a whole, as some burgeoning programmer will have many sleepless nights ahead spending his/her own time learning the tips and tricks employed in this source code. Thank you.

Re:Thank you (2, Insightful)

Frogmanalien (521225) | more than 9 years ago | (#13361729)

It does seem ironic, especially since just a few comments above someone asks whether you can actually still buy it in the stores (which, having tried, I can confirm is next to impossible) that there are other companies out there who hold onto their intellectual propetry beyond reason. There are so many classic DOS games that would be great to play, but you can't buy. The games industry may have matured, but it still hasn't reached the critical level where (like movies and music) classic titles are held with such high esteem that it seems shocking to go into a decent CD/DVD store and not be able to get a classic title from twenty years ago...

As a personal plea to the software co's out there- please let your old games be free... or at least available to buy! What point is owning a product if you don't sell it?

Re:Thank you (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#13361741)

What point is owning a product if you don't sell it?
So it does not disatract from the things they do sell. Ain't copyright grand?

Mirror without the BS (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#13361643)

Mirror [bdash.net.nz]

What can be done with it? (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#13361648)

So what can be done with this? Since it's the Q3 Arena code, are developers limited to similar games of running around shooting each other? Or, could someone use this code and remake some older game such as Ultima Underworld?

Re:What can be done with it? (3, Funny)

FLAGGR (800770) | more than 9 years ago | (#13361728)

Someone could turn it into a word proccessing app if they wanted to. Depends on how much effort your willing to spend, and how good at coding you are.

Re:What can be done with it? (5, Interesting)

Flounder (42112) | more than 9 years ago | (#13361734)

I'd love to see a Q3 port of Duke Nukem 3D and Shadow Warrior.

Docs? (1)

northcat (827059) | more than 9 years ago | (#13361652)

Is this documented so that dumb people like me can look at it too? Maybe some third party manual/tutorial?

Re:Docs? (0)

QuantaStarFire (902219) | more than 9 years ago | (#13361689)

From the README:

This software is provided 'as-is', without any express or implied warranty. In no event will the authors be held liable for any damages arising from the use of this software.

In other words, no documentation. Sucks, 'cuz they could probably use GPL Q3A as an excuse to create a new section to idDevNet [iddevnet.com] .

Re:Docs? (1)

carnivore302 (708545) | more than 9 years ago | (#13361717)

Not really an answer to your question, but if you're interested in these things: read ShaderX2: Introductions and Tutorials with DirectX 9.0 [amazon.com] . Although the technology presented in this book is way ahead of that used in quake 3, it will give you both a nice introduction and some hands-on examples how to do things, as well as some more in-depth stuff. I liked it very much.

For a true annotation of what's going on in the code, newsgroups will probably be buzzing about it in a short while.

From what I've seen, the code is pretty well documented. You'll definetely need some basic understanding of graphics programming (amongst others), and C might not really be your cup of tea, but all in all browsing the code will not make you any dummer :-)

Mark

How about optimized builds? (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#13361660)

You know, AMD, P4, etc.

Also, will any builds made by us work with punkbuster?

Quake 3 Mods (2, Interesting)

crache (654516) | more than 9 years ago | (#13361676)

One might assume that with the source being available, popular Q3 mods such as urbanterror could be released as standalone games. However, most mods depends on the PAK files from the game, which have not been open sourced.

Re:Quake 3 Mods (1)

FLAGGR (800770) | more than 9 years ago | (#13361778)

In other news, alot of people bought the game, so that doesn't matter. I saw it used at EB games for 10$ the other day. Get off your ass and shell out, jeez.

Re:Quake 3 Mods (1)

Timbo (75953) | more than 9 years ago | (#13361781)

Most total conversions (SUBTLE PLUG: such as http://tremulous.net/ [tremulous.net] ) do not rely on the base pk3s a great deal. It's predominantly textures that are the problem, but they're also the easiest to replace.

I thought.... (1)

dethkrieg (672025) | more than 9 years ago | (#13361697)

I thought Id always released the source code with their game so people could make the mods for it... What did they release with the game then that people modified for mods? I'm confused....

Re:I thought.... (1)

Dave2 Wickham (600202) | more than 9 years ago | (#13361744)

SDKs, which aren't the full source code, are released to allow modders to write mods. This is the full source release. In addition, these aren't released under the GPL.

I'm sure someone else could give a better description than me though.

Re:I thought.... (1)

petermgreen (876956) | more than 9 years ago | (#13361750)

most first person shooters use some form of scripting language that allows people to make quite a lot of modifications without access to the source code.

the source is valuable to the community in three ways, firstly for porting to new operating systems/architectures, secondly for making changes to parts that aren't covered by the scripting system and thirdly because it allows true total conversions to be released as standalone downloads.

Re:I thought.... (1)

neocrono (619254) | more than 9 years ago | (#13361798)

That's not entirely accurate. Some games now use scripting, but I wouldn't call it "most." Unreal has always used a proprietary language called UnrealScript, and Far Cry uses lua, for example. Quake 1 used "QuakeC," which was a compiled language, I think. However, the Quake 2 and Half-Life engines (which I would call the most prevalent as mods go) call into dynamically loaded libraries containing the game logic, so that mod makers can recompile the DLL or SO without needing the source code for the multimillion dollar bleeding edge (or not) engine. Half-Life 1 used C++ off and on, but still had a lot of Quake in its blood. Half-Life 2 is heavily object-oriented. Up until Doom 3, on the other hand, I think Carmack was steadfast about using pure C.

Re:I thought.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#13361762)

The code is split into two parts; the engine code and the game code. The game code is enough to make mods, and that source was released years ago. The engine code contains (among other things) the actual 3D engine.

Re:I thought.... (1)

AnonymousCoder (871211) | more than 9 years ago | (#13361768)

Id releases soon after the launch date of the game the sources that contain the game logic for the modders. What has just been released is the *engine* source.

And that's why id Software rocks. (5, Insightful)

HerculesMO (693085) | more than 9 years ago | (#13361707)

No, id Software doesn't rule because they are open sourcing an outdated graphics engine. There will always be complainers...

They rule because they are open sourcing it to make room for cheap games based on that engine. Carmack and Co know that they don't have to give the engine out, but the people that follow their games religiously, this is kind of 'giving back to the community'. The fact this engine will be open sourced means that it can also be improved upon, free of charge. Indy developers (mind you, id Software is one of the FEW left) get a chance to develop a great game -- albeit one that lacks a bit graphically compared to the D3 and HL2 standards -- to cater to a niche crowd and make a name for themselves.

The sheer price to enter the market for game developing is HUGE. Especially when it costs more money to develop a reliable engine than to buy one from somebody else. Those engines can run into the hundreds of thousands of dollars, and for a small gaming firm, or even a lone developer, that entry fee is too high a price to pay.

id Software should be commended for their efforts to continue supporting open source, make room for solo developers, and help broaden the PC gaming genre as we know it by including those who previously had restraints on their investment into gaming.

And to those of you assholes who continually compare Doom3's engine to the Source engine, and say it sucks... just write an engine that's even half as good as the Q3 engine, and then maybe you can say what sucks, and what doesn't. Doom3 may not have been graphically spectacular in its own instance, but I have a feeling that the engine behind it will do much of what the Q3 engine did -- pave the way for amazing games, and challenge hardware AND software vendors to up their efforts to support the T&L and effects that the D3 engine is spectacular at.

Re:And that's why id Software rocks. (1)

justins (80659) | more than 9 years ago | (#13361751)

The sheer price to enter the market for game developing is HUGE.

No, it really isn't.

http://www.garagegames.com/makegames/ [garagegames.com]

Re:And that's why id Software rocks. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#13361794)

>They rule because they are open sourcing it to make room for cheap games based on that engine.

Funny, I don't recall any commercial games of note coming out of the opened Q1 and Q2 engine.

Cut down on the Kool-Aid(tm), kid.

Last OpenGL version ? (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#13361709)

Since carmack is choosing the Xbox 360 as his main developmentplatform (Direct3D) does this mean that he will be ditching OpenGL?

Re:Last OpenGL version ? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#13361726)

I hope so. It's about time to choose a single platform and let the others die. Direct3D may not be open and has its flaws, but it has become a de facto standard.

Maybe now the OS X version will be fixed? (2, Insightful)

solios (53048) | more than 9 years ago | (#13361710)

Seriously. The last version of Q3A (that I'm aware of, anyway) for OS X has a glitchy, game-crashing plasma gun.

Oh, and the screen dumps I've taken (multihead, radeon9600) are static, as opposed to game content. o.O

Re:Maybe now the OS X version will be fixed? (1)

phlyingpenguin (466669) | more than 9 years ago | (#13361754)

I haven't noticed that in my OS X copy...

Re:Maybe now the OS X version will be fixed? (1)

solios (53048) | more than 9 years ago | (#13361776)

I have two versions of the OS X q3 executable : 1.31 and 1.3.2.

1.31 is totally stable, and I haven't had any problems with it.
1.3.2 has the plasma gun problem, and I've had a few other issues with it.

Source ports listing (1)

jvmatthe (116058) | more than 9 years ago | (#13361738)

Please submit any source ports to Liberated Games ( http://liberatedgames.org/ [liberatedgames.org] ). Thanks.

News oppt'y for cheating? (2, Insightful)

ch-chuck (9622) | more than 9 years ago | (#13361765)

I already get my butt kicked every time, but won't this allow server operators to make special hacks for their own advantage?

Re:News oppt'y for cheating? (1)

op51n (544058) | more than 9 years ago | (#13361804)

In the keynote he said they've taken all the punkbuster stuff out, so it can't connect to a punkbuster protected server (not entirely sure how punkbuster works but I can guess). He also said he doesn't know if there will be unforeseen circumstances this way, but they are ready and willing to deal with it if this does cause an influx of cheating.

Slashdot a day late... (-1, Offtopic)

bani (467531) | more than 9 years ago | (#13361780)

2005-08-19 21:37:02 Quake 3 Source Finally Released (Games,Quake) (rejected)

Bleh.

Tip for compiling on linux (5, Informative)

jayslambast (519228) | more than 9 years ago | (#13361786)

While most of you probably know this, you have to do one thing before compiling the code. The '.md' files in the lcc/src need to be converted to unix end of line characters, otherwise one of the lcc compiler programs will barf. To fix this, jump into the lcc/src directory and run this little perl function on all the files in that directory.
cd lcc/src

tcsh
foreach i (*)
perl -p -e 's/\r/\n/g' $i.unix
mv $i.unix $i
end
and btw, if there is a nice unix utility that already does this, let me know.

Re:Tip for compiling on linux (1)

Transcendor (907201) | more than 9 years ago | (#13361797)

it's called dos2unix AFAIK and it's compiled (not perl or so)

Re:Tip for compiling on linux (2, Informative)

rg3 (858575) | more than 9 years ago | (#13361802)

While not completelly correct, you can use tr -d '\r' to remove CR characters. Another completelly correct way of doing it is to use sed -e 's/\r\n/\n/g'.
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