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Xbox 360 - What You Get For Your Money

Zonk posted more than 8 years ago | from the you-can't-always-get-what-you-want dept.

XBox (Games) 108

1up.com has a news post throwing together information from various sources, and revealing some release details about the Xbox 360. Scans of marketing flyers finally make clear the differences in the two skus. From the article: "There's ... a handy chart comparing the Core system to the standard system. The accessories are perhaps the most interesting, with specs and suggested retail prices listed. The wired controller is compatible with Windows XP, and the hard drive comes with some pre-loaded data, including an HD puzzle game. Of course, everything in the brochure is subject to change without notice, so check back for more confirmation as we get closer to the launch date." More commentary is available from Chris Morris's always excellent Game Over column. A transcript of the J. Allard chat is available at Major-Nelson.com.

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108 comments

Good setup (1, Redundant)

Kawahee (901497) | more than 8 years ago | (#13370187)

It's a good setup, and the hardware is coming cheap(er) than what I expected, thanks to Microsoft subsidising it. Anyone know how much they'll be losing per xbox?

I've got a theory. (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#13370234)

Sometimes when i pick buggers out of my noses, i put them in my ear until they dry so i can eat them.

Re:Good setup (1)

mwvdlee (775178) | more than 8 years ago | (#13370294)

Honestly, I don't think they'll be losing much. My estimate is that they'll be selling at about the cost of expensive, all inclusive, rounded down to the nearest $xxxx9,99 pricetag.

Look Again, it's More Expensive (1)

chazman00 (321337) | more than 8 years ago | (#13372430)

The total cost of ownership is more like 650 [gizmodo.com] . Even with the 400 dollar version you still will want to buy a few add ons, such as an XBox Live subscription, a 2nd wireless controller, and Wireless Ethernet adapter.

The 300 low end box is just a marketing ploy.

Re:Look Again, it's More Expensive (1)

bigman2003 (671309) | more than 8 years ago | (#13372924)

Yep- the low-end box is the idiot route. For the kid who tells his parents "It's $400." And then they scream and have a fit. They see the $300 version as being cheaper. But in the long run, it will cost you about $100 more to go that way.

On your numbers, the only thing I don't like is the wireless networking kit. Millions of people are already connected to Live, and they won't need that.

I know that I went wireless at first, and then got too frustrated when something would affect my connection...so I finally had to run a cable to my living room. So I won't be spending that money.

But I figured that $550 is the minimum.

Re:Look Again, it's More Expensive (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#13373356)

just a few points

I like how you say millions as if xbox live actually has more than just 1 or 2 million, and you also make it sound as if people actually don't mind having network cables running into their livingroom.

I'd say that most people infact do not enjoy having network cables running into their livingroom and will probably buy a wireless card. The fact that PS3 and Revolution will both come with WIFI built in is further proof of this.

Re:Look Again, it's More Expensive (2, Informative)

Radius9 (588130) | more than 8 years ago | (#13373009)

The XBox Live Silver setup, which is basically the same as the current XBox live is free.

Re:Look Again, it's More Expensive (1)

birder (61402) | more than 8 years ago | (#13373167)

Xbox silver is only for downloading new content and patches and such. You can't play online games. You need to upgrade to gold.

Re:Look Again, it's More Expensive (1)

hobbesx (259250) | more than 8 years ago | (#13373192)

IIRC, you can play online-games on weekends or some-such with Silver.

Re:Look Again, it's More Expensive (1)

PeelBoy (34769) | more than 8 years ago | (#13373382)

I don't remember ever hearing that, but regardless it's still not the same thing.

Re:Look Again, it's More Expensive (1)

birder (61402) | more than 8 years ago | (#13373468)

They will have special weekends where you can play online to entice you to upgrade but it won't be every weekend.

What you really get.... (0)

BulletMagnet (600525) | more than 8 years ago | (#13370200)

A whole lotta marketing hype....

I'll wait until November to see if it can outdo my Dual Core Megabox that only cost me 4 1/2x that of a 360...the fancy one.

...is a PGR3 playing machine (1)

iainl (136759) | more than 8 years ago | (#13370264)

Irrespective of how powerful it is, I've got the basic issue that my PC won't play PGR3. But then, an X360 won't play Battlefield 2 or GT-R, so I'm stuffed with just either one machine.

HD puzzle game? (4, Funny)

Exitar (809068) | more than 8 years ago | (#13370292)

Do you mean hard disk defragmentation?

Re:HD puzzle game? (5, Funny)

game kid (805301) | more than 8 years ago | (#13370468)

It'll be manual. You play the role of the processor determining what fragments go which places. Plug in extra controllers (or connect to XBox Live) for extra co-op threads. Overwrite an existing file and it's Game Over. Score is based on time spent; reading from a system or DRM-protected file causes a system crash and penalizes you with at least 3 seconds.

I'd love to see that implemented, actually.

Re:HD puzzle game? (1)

hobbesx (259250) | more than 8 years ago | (#13373110)

I've always thought that games like Tetris or AstroPop were connected to some inter-galactic internet where we loaded space-cargo for some lazy alien race.

the hard drive (5, Informative)

fixmyship (802069) | more than 8 years ago | (#13370311)

Seems like you have to get the hard drive to play "top-selling" original xbox titles.

"Xbox 360 Hard Drive (20 gb) ... * Store multiple game saves and play top-selling original Xbox games. ... Why Buy: Expand your Xbox 360 content with downloadable content, rip music and play an array of original Xbox games."

Re:the hard drive (1)

DingerX (847589) | more than 8 years ago | (#13370348)

Of course -- "backwards compatible with select xbox games" = "downloads ported executable for a few titles"

Re:the hard drive (1)

Saige (53303) | more than 8 years ago | (#13371649)

Nope, completely wrong.

The reason for that is that the Xbox didn't abstract the storage device, so all the games are written as if there's always a hard drive there - so there has to be one to play them.

Uhhh.. no (1)

PeelBoy (34769) | more than 8 years ago | (#13373661)

No. Actually you're completely wrong. (well you could also be right about old xbox games expecting a harddrive. I don't know for sure. It just depends)

"(Microsoft has) implemented compatibility purely through emulation (at the CPU level). It looks like emulation profiles for each game are going to be stored on the hard drive, and I imagine that a certain number will ship with the system. They already have the infrastructure to distribute more profiles via Live, and more and more can be made available online periodically."

Second page of this IGN article:
http://xbox.ign.com/articles/639/639136p1.html [ign.com]

I also remember reading other Microsoft quotes about this in various other places but I don't feel like finding them all right this very second.

Re:Uhhh.. no (1)

PeelBoy (34769) | more than 8 years ago | (#13373793)

Unless that nVidia deal kept them from having to do all that, that is. I would still expect them to have to do some work on the executable to get it working but I could be wrong.

Re:Uhhh.. no (1)

Saige (53303) | more than 8 years ago | (#13374217)

From the J Allard interview that was just posted here on Slashdot:

J Allard (Expert): Another one from mail: What about backward compatibility in the core system?

J Allard (Expert): because we didn't abstract storage in the first generation xbox back compat will require a hard drive. the good news is that the core system owners can upgrade if they deside to update at a later date.


Re:Uhhh.. no (1)

PeelBoy (34769) | more than 8 years ago | (#13374483)

Sure. I didn't deny that, but that doesn't prove or disprove the fact that the games might still require new executables in order to be backwards compatible.

Although I had forgot about their deal with nVidea (replied to my orig. comment about it) but I still haven't seen any quotes from microsoft saying they are not going to need new executables. I HAVE seen quotes from microsoft saying they will need new executables. Until I see otherwise I'll just assume the harddrive is going to come packed with updated executables for xbox backwards compatibility.

Re:Uhhh.. no (1)

Saige (53303) | more than 8 years ago | (#13375021)

I've seen emails to Xbox lists here at Microsoft where some of the devs have said that they will not have new executables, but be doing standard emu. Suprising they would be giving contradictory messages... are you sure you've seen a quote directly from someone at MS about them doing so, or were they articles that claimed it minus quotes?

Re:the hard drive (2, Insightful)

Seumas (6865) | more than 8 years ago | (#13370396)

And at something like $100 for a 20gb drive... WHAT A DEAL!

I mean, that's only $5/gb compared to those expensive deals you get on hard drives today that are about 44cents/gb!

Re:the hard drive (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#13373142)

I remember paying $1 per MB in the 90s for hard drives. $5/gb for a 2.5" SATA drive is fine by me.

No way. You're insane if you believe that! (1)

PeelBoy (34769) | more than 8 years ago | (#13373714)

Uhhhh yeah dude. $100 for 100 megs in the 90's? Early 90's maybe. That was 15 freaking years ago dude. Would you be happy spending $2,000 on a 15 year old TV also? Because that's pretty much what you're saying.

$100 for a 20 gig harddrive is INSANE!

You can buy a 300 gig drive for nearly the same price!

http://www.newegg.com/ProductSort/Category.asp?Cat egory=15 [newegg.com]

Re:No way. You're insane if you believe that! (1)

cornface (900179) | more than 8 years ago | (#13374249)

I'm pretty sure they're using notebook sized drives. The 120gb notebook drive on the link you pasted is $263. So you were off by 180gb and $163.

You gave it the ol' college try, though.

Re:No way. You're insane if you believe that! (1)

PeelBoy (34769) | more than 8 years ago | (#13374570)

Perhaps. My try was as good as yours. You picked one of the more expensive options for your example. You can get an 80 gig for $93 bucks [newegg.com] . That's almost $1/gig. Thats a much better deal and I'm sure it's not the best deal out there. Also the xbox used full sized hard drives. I haven't read anything about the type of hard drive they will use in the 360. I suppose notebook drives would make sense to keep the size down so I wouldn't be too surprised. Got any links/proof that they're using notebook drives?

Re:the hard drive (4, Informative)

Fred Or Alive (738779) | more than 8 years ago | (#13370522)

Probably not suprising for Xbox games, even if it's just a strait emulator running the games (ie: no game specific patches / executables), Xbox 1 games assume that they will have a hard disk, and they use it for caches etc.

Re:the hard drive (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#13370536)

Wait a minute.

I thought for sure MS had stated that they were going to have BC after they agreed to pay NVidia for their IP?

But now BC is only for "top selling" games AND the overpriced harddrive???

So basically BC for the 360 has turned out to be nothing more than one of those greatest hits compilations. Fucking bullshit.

Re:the hard drive (1)

Undefined Parameter (726857) | more than 8 years ago | (#13371122)

My thoughts on this, exactly.

It looks like MS decided to get greedy (no surprise, there, really). While they could have implemented backwards compatibility through software emulation (of a hard drive, among other things), they decided to try and soak more cash out of gamers.

For me, this means that I will not be getting a new 360. I'll be picking up a used one, if I pick up a 360 at all.

~UP

Re:the hard drive (1)

apoc06 (853263) | more than 8 years ago | (#13372492)

i dunno. it would be insanely difficult to have a smoothly emulated game that depends on hard drive caching.

im probably going to be echoing your idea. ill probably pick up a used x360. they will most likely start going on sale around the time of the ps3 launch.

i usually wait until a console has been around for a while before i pick one up. that way, you limit the chances of defective units. the more and more i look at the x360, im not sure if its going to live up to its own hype. the ps3 either for that matter. for all its shortcomings, MS is going to great length to make the ps3 look better and better every day.

"Backwards Compatibility"? Yeah, right. (2, Insightful)

WebGangsta (717475) | more than 8 years ago | (#13371554)

The brochures all confirm that a hard-drive is needed for backwards compatibility
Unless I've missed something (which is certainly quite possible), there has been no talk of how to move your saved games/preferences/etc from the old Xbox to the X360. Sure, the X360 will have a drive so the old games will run, but unless you can move all the info over from one machine to the other, who is going to bother?

Oh, that's right -- "Backwards Compatibility" is only for NEW purchases of Xbox games so they'll play on the X360 , not for Xbox owners who are upgrading their systems and want to continue raising havoc in [insert favorite havoc-raising game title here].

Where does that leave the PS3? Well, it's already been covered [gamedaily.com] that the PS3 is moving away from the traditional PS1/PS2 memory cards in favor of supporting many other memory card formats... but it is certainly possible for a manufacturer to come out with an adapter that could be used to load/copy data from the old memory card to a PS3-supported card. (maybe a copy "service" would be more cost-beneficial than a one-time-use peripheral. Even so...)

Re:"Backwards Compatibility"? Yeah, right. (1)

Have Blue (616) | more than 8 years ago | (#13372643)

If an adapter can be made for legacy PS* memory cards, an adapter can be made for Xbox 1 memory cards. You'll just need to do the extra step of copying the save from the Xbox HD to the memory card beforehand.

(If it comes as a surprise that the Xbox 1 can use memory cards, that's only because they're a very rare sight because the hard disk is so much better that nobody needs them.)

Re:"Backwards Compatibility"? Yeah, right. (1)

Blakey Rat (99501) | more than 8 years ago | (#13373433)

Put them on a memory card, dingus. What are you, a retard? Or are you just going WAAAAY the hell out of your way to bash Microsoft?

Re:"Backwards Compatibility"? Yeah, right. (1)

WebGangsta (717475) | more than 8 years ago | (#13374651)

"Dingus"? Please. I have both PS2 and Xbox and enjoy playing both of them.

The whole idea behind the XBox's hard drive was so you didn't have to buy a memory card in order to save games. There was no way to avoid buying a memory card if you wanted to enjoy PS1/PS2 games.

That being the case, you're saying that I should go out and purchase an Xbox memory card for the sole purpose of transfering games to my "backwards compatible" X360 console?

Doesn't make sense - not after Sony let the PS2 read PS1 memory cards as part of *their* "Backwards Compatible" strategy.

Have we seen that the X360 will support the Xbox memory cards at all? I'm fairly certain that I read the X360 won't support Xbox peripherals such as DDR Dance Pads and maybe the Xbox Music Mixer microphone. Again, could be wrong. (I'll assume the PS3 will support PS2 peripherals like the Eyetoy, as that was USB-based.)

Re:"Backwards Compatibility"? Yeah, right. (1)

r_jensen11 (598210) | more than 8 years ago | (#13375788)

That being the case, you're saying that I should go out and purchase an Xbox memory card for the sole purpose of transfering games to my "backwards compatible" X360 console?

I'll apologize for him. We're sorry. I guess you don't have any friends, otherwise you could have thought of mooching off of them, or having them all pitch together so that you all could share the memory card to transfer all of your saves over.

Has anyone thought of just networking the XBoxes, and transfering saves that way?

Re:"Backwards Compatibility"? Yeah, right. (1)

WebGangsta (717475) | more than 8 years ago | (#13376429)

you all could share the memory card to transfer all of your saves over

Already said that in my original post where I mention that a one-time use peripheral would not be the best purchase to make. But thanks for playing.

Has anyone thought of just networking the XBoxes, and transfering saves that way?

Whatever it takes -- it certainly wouldn't be unheard of (yes, all of you with modded XBoxes; I see you waving your hands wildly in the air).

For example, XBox Music Mixer had software that allowed you to download specific files to your Xbox (but not transfer files back up). But because of the (overly, but justifably so) convulted file structure/naming conventions that MSFT put in place for the various games, it could be a complicated process to select and transfer the files to the PC and then back down to the X360... assuming that the X360's HD file structure/organization is even compatible with the Xbox's. Using a crossover cable would certainly be easier, but still run into the same file placement issues.

My point, which seems to have been lost although I've been saying it for at least a year now, is that MSFT may be creating a console that will play the older games, but they have not -- at least publically -- seemed to address what it takes to make a console truly backwards compatible with the previous systems.

Sony did it right with the PS1/PS2; we have to see what approach they'll take with the PS2/PS3 upgrade path. Just being able to play the older games is part of the battle. When is MSFT, and soon Sony, going to tell us the other part of the equation?

this xbox is (0, Redundant)

bigalsenior (869954) | more than 8 years ago | (#13370325)

one of the few things which microsoft did right i may get one becuse all of the others are so long away plus if it gets halo 3 ill be very happy

I love the way... (2, Funny)

Retroneous (879615) | more than 8 years ago | (#13370351)

...that 1up always makes out that it is the first with everything. One question...why bother getting scans of the brochure, when they could just refer to Microsoft's official press release that stated all of these facts last week?

What next? "RIDGE RACER TYPE 4 COMING TO PSONE!"

Re:I love the way... (1)

xblazed (877669) | more than 8 years ago | (#13370369)

They didnt make out they were first with it - the first line of their news post links back to the site that did post them first - http://www.planetxbox360.com/ [planetxbox360.com]

Which begs the question.... (1)

GrnArmadillo (697378) | more than 8 years ago | (#13371881)

Why does the Slashdot post point to a one paragraph article with links to people who actually have the information instead of just posting those links directly?

Re:Which begs the question.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#13374143)

It's a known bug [sourceforge.net] .

Re:I love the way... (2, Insightful)

badasscat (563442) | more than 8 years ago | (#13372859)

One question...why bother getting scans of the brochure, when they could just refer to Microsoft's official press release that stated all of these facts last week?

I love it - last week we had people saying "why is this news? We all knew about this months ago!" and now we have people saying "why is this news? MS just released this info last week!"

Ok, I guess since all of you guys know the future two to three years in advance, the whole rest of the web may as well just close up shop. You could open up a nice business in fortune-telling if your predictions are so freakin' accurate.

Did you bother reading the brochure? MS said nothing last week, for example, about pricing on memory units, separate hard drives, faceplates, etc. This is the first confirmation we have that the hard drive will be required for backward compatibility. It's the first mention of what cables come with each system (important, because component cables are a $40 accessory, and only the $400 system comes with them). It's the first mention that the $400 system is in fact cosmetically different - it has "premium chrome" accents, whereas the $300 system is just white. (To me, the cheap system looks better, honestly. Painting a piece of plastic with chrome paint doesn't look classy to me, it looks tacky.)

If you knew all these facts last week, why didn't you speak up and tell us all about them?

Some of us also just find these brochures interesting and in some cases amusing, especially for the language they use. I like how, according to MS, having the "best experience" with the Xbox 360 requires the possession of "multiple faceplates." You'll only have a "good experience" otherwise - you've been warned!

Gabe tells the truth about Xbox 360 pricing: (5, Funny)

astroblaster (600838) | more than 8 years ago | (#13370354)

"I'm not trying to push you into the high cost option ... I'm saying the lower cost option doesn't exist." Link [penny-arcade.com]

Re:Gabe tells the truth about Xbox 360 pricing: (3, Interesting)

ben0207 (845105) | more than 8 years ago | (#13370367)

Actually that was Tycho. Gabe doesn't talk so much.

Anyways, regardless of the US pricing (I don't live there), the UK pricing is shockingly cheap. £210 for the Core System, and the proper bells-and-whistles one for £280. Just to compare, the basic Xbox package was £300 without anything bundled, same with the PS2 (the GCN was £150, IIRC - not that it helped sales at all)

I predict very good sales for this - at least as far as the UK is concerned.

Re:Gabe tells the truth about Xbox 360 pricing: (1)

mattcurrie (192138) | more than 8 years ago | (#13370562)

Hmmm. I wonder how much it will be in New Zealand... The PS2 originally went for about $1000 NZD when it first came out here - that would've been about $500 USD back then >_<

Re:Gabe tells the truth about Xbox 360 pricing: (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#13371504)

Can I ask what your source is for this?

Don't take my question personally, it's just that this seems, if anything, to be a bit too good to be true. £280 for the full-version of the console is significantly less than I'd been budgeting and it would be nice for me to be able to throw a couple of extra games into the bundle when I buy.

At this price, and with this being the only new console on the market for Christmas, I'd agree that this will probably do spectacularly well here in the UK. MS have built up no small amount of goodwill with a lot of us Brits, self included, by not treating Europe as a second rate market, like Nintendo (and to a lesser extent, Sony) tend to. We get the big releases, such as Halo 2, pretty much when the US gets them. Of course, I'll be buying a PS3 as well (and maybe a Revolution if Nintendo show any signs of having learned from the disaster-area that was the Cube). At least the spread between the release dates lets me balance the damage to my wallet out a bit.

Re:Gabe tells the truth about Xbox 360 pricing: (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#13372653)

Amazon.co.uk

Lookee here!!! [amazon.co.uk]

Standard package £209.99
Deluxe package £279.99

Re:Gabe tells the truth about Xbox 360 pricing: (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#13373859)

Get real. Those prices are almost never right. Give us a link to a quote from Microsoft and then I'll believe it.

The Greatest Console Fiasco In History (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#13370359)

As someone who has been involved in the console market going all the way back to the Genesis, I can say there has never been a disaster of this magnitude ever. Nothing. There have been minor players who have come and gone. There have been missteps and PR problems for various companies over the years.

But Microsoft and the 360 have managed to top every previous console diaster COMBINED and then some. The scale of the 360 disaster is simply staggering.

STAGGERING.

I have been trying to force myself to stop reading all the various console forums and news sites, but I just can't stop. It's like the 9-11 of the console world. You just have to stop what you're doing and watch the footage over and over again because you can't believe something this bad could really be happening.

The only feasible next step for Microsoft is working on a face saving way of exiting the console market. Perhaps some type of annoucement that they will be licensing the Xbox brand out to third parties while they quickly and quietly start dismantling their internal Xbox hardware production.

Whatever they do, the folks up in Redmond have to be thinking Exit Strategy right now.

Ouch.

Maybe next time some supporting evidence? (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#13370435)

As someone who has been involved in the console market going all the way back to the Intellivision, I can say there has never been a disaster of this magnitude ever. Nothing. There have been minor players who have come and gone. There have been missteps and PR problems for various companies over the years.

But Sony and the Playstation 3 have managed to top every previous console diaster COMBINED and then some. The scale of the Playstation 3 disaster is simply staggering.

STAGGERING.

I have been trying to force myself to stop reading all the various console forums and news sites, but I just can't stop. It's like the Hiroshima of the console world. You just have to stop what you're doing and watch the footage over and over again because you can't believe something this bad could really be happening.

The only feasible next step for Sony is working on a face saving way of exiting the console market. Perhaps some type of announcement that they will be licensing the Playstation brand out to third parties while they quickly and quietly start dismantling their internal Playstation 2 hardware production.

Whatever they do, the folks over in Shinagawa have to be thinking Exit Strategy right now.

Ouch.

Re:I wonder.... (2, Insightful)

fwitness (195565) | more than 8 years ago | (#13370495)

Does anyone have the slightest clue what you are talking about? Please someone drop me a line if you do.

Re:I wonder.... (1)

mattcurrie (192138) | more than 8 years ago | (#13370534)

He would appear to be just another xbox 360 weenie predicting impending doom for Sony.

I gotta say the xbox 360 looks nice from the specs.. but I haven't seen one game that would make me drop that kinda cash.

Re:I wonder.... (1)

iainl (136759) | more than 8 years ago | (#13370590)

Hit 'Parent'. The X360 weenie was just taking the piss out of a PS3 weenie by replacing 'Microsoft' with 'Sony'.

Somehow, something about the X360 launch was a Very Bad Thing according the the parent, but they didn't state quite what or why.

Re:I wonder.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#13370612)

"Somehow, something about the X360 launch was a Very Bad Thing"

Heh.

Yeah, what crack smoker could possibly claim the 360 launch isn't going BETTER THAN EXPECTED. Clearly everyone is jumping on the 360 BANDWAGON. All the reputable console news sites like www.teamxbox.com clearly are reporting that MS really has MOMENTUM with the 360.

Sony is teh DOOMED!

Re:I wonder.... (1)

mattcurrie (192138) | more than 8 years ago | (#13370616)

ooops.. my bad :P

Anyway it will be interesting to see what packages Sony comes up with when PS3 is released... maybe they'll make everyone buy it with a Spiderman bluray :-|

Since the Gamecube and PS2 were failures too (1)

Rayonic (462789) | more than 8 years ago | (#13371184)

Since they didn't have hard drives, the PS2 and Gamecube failed just like the Xbox360 is going to.

Sure.

I hate it (1)

el_womble (779715) | more than 8 years ago | (#13370408)

when I get sucked in by hype. When my Xbox popped-its-clogs on Christmas Eve last year (boy was I angry). I prommised myself that I was an adult now and that I didn't need a games console. So confident was I that I sold all my games and accessories.

I can actually feel my Maestro card burning in my pocket at the moment. I'm going to take a cold shower.

Re:I hate it (1)

leland242 (736905) | more than 8 years ago | (#13370748)

No offense, but that's a poor attitude.

What does age have to do with owning a console (or any gaming system)?

Re:I hate it (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#13374010)

Age has a lot to do with owning a console, as in "There's an age where you stop playing games, and start talking to girls."

But for most slashdotters, thats hardly the case. Nerds forever, I always say.

I'll wait (2, Insightful)

Dr.Opveter (806649) | more than 8 years ago | (#13370502)

Value for money?
I'll probably pick up a Xbox or Playstation 2 this year. Hopefully the second hand market will get flooded with consoles from avid gamers trying to get the latest stuff.

Re:I'll wait (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#13376193)

If you get a PS2, make sure you buy a hard drive and load up HD Loader [ntlworld.com] . Out of the box it is not compatible with every game, but there are numerous patches you can apply that improve compatibility and add features. You can also use it with the slim PS2 over a USB hard drive.

If you get an Xbox, flash the BIOS with EvolutionX [xboxhackz.net] . Then upgrade the hard drive with a faster and bigger one.

This way you can download and play the hot imports, rare classics, and even (for the Xbox) emulations and movies.

I'd recommend the PS2 if you want more games, especially imports. Xbox only if you particularly like emulation and have a large collection of movies to stream off the desktop computer. A hard core gamer can blow throw the games worth playing on the xbox in a matter of months.

I mean, I'm all for buying the legit games you like. But renting is legal you know. Pay $5 for a week. What's difference if you spread it out and it takes a month? Most single player games can be beaten in less than 20 hours these days. But for some of the best games like imports it's simply prohibitive.

From TFA's forum - (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#13370507)

get this the ps2 had spcs. 6.2 gflops. but xbox 1 only had 2.5 gflops. why?, it's all about the gpu and big S PR...

And so it begins...

500+ dollars? (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#13370603)

So to get a new xbox with wireless controllers and that plays old games is going to cost over 500 dollars? Over 600 dollars by the time a game or two is added in!

WTF is MS smoking? There are a couple of games that looked interesting, but I am sure as hell not going to blow that much cash unless the games look phenomenal - and so far the 360 stuff looks somewhere between crap and meh. Even the latest PGR3 news is talking about the game having frame rate problems. And that was supposed to be the big release title.

This pricing broadside by MS has made the PS3 seem like something attractive now. Even if it means no more Halo.

Re:500+ dollars? (1)

Rayonic (462789) | more than 8 years ago | (#13371247)

Huh? The hard drive/wireless bundle is $400, not $500.

Expect similar pricing for the PS3. Believe it or not, Sony doesn't have any magic technology to make hard drives any cheaper to manufacture.

Re:500+ dollars? (1)

KDR_11k (778916) | more than 8 years ago | (#13371591)

Unless that's canadian dollars, calm down, the system costs 400$ for the "full" package. Well, okay, that's still overly expensive but at least less than the 500 you listed. It's 520 with two games, add another 30 for the extended warranty you'll be forced to buy the system with if you wwant it near launch. But realistically, are there even two games out of the launch lineup you want?

Re:500+ dollars? (1)

cornface (900179) | more than 8 years ago | (#13372609)

You aren't adding in the cost of a second wireless controller, which is expensive.

So take your $550 total price, and add in another $50 for the extra controller. Strangely, that equals $600. If you want the stupid play and charge cable, the total is greater than $600, which is the price you were disputing.

Re:500+ dollars? (1)

KDR_11k (778916) | more than 8 years ago | (#13375028)

Second controller? That can wait. Unless you buy some multiplayer-only game.

Re:500+ dollars? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#13375058)

Yep, and not everybody is interested in XBox Live either. People are going out of there way to make this as expensive as possible. The basic game system is reasonable.

So buy a gaming quality PC then (1)

llevity (776014) | more than 8 years ago | (#13373329)

I don't get the complaints on console prices. Okay, it's going to be $400. That's a lot of money.

But at the same time, that $400 will be just enough to buy a new model graphics card for a PC. Then you still need a mobo, RAM, sound card, case, power supply, keyboard, mouse, etc.

True, PCs can do other things. But most of those other things can be done on a $150 used PC you pick up out of the classified ads.

As far as gaming goes, consoles are usually a great value.

Re:So buy a gaming quality PC then (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#13374134)

You're right. The average kid has no place playing games these days. That's a right reserved for kids with well off parents. People who can justify paying upwards of $500 to $2000 plus $60/game for the sole purpose of playing games. Fuck everybody else (which just happens to be most people).

It must be nice not ever having money problems. Most of us can't say the same.

Re:So buy a gaming quality PC then (1)

Delphiki (646425) | more than 8 years ago | (#13374348)

Yeah, it's such a shame that once the XBOX 360 comes out, all lower cost systems will disappear from store shelves and any game systems people already own will stop working. I mean there is just no way for people without a lot of money to play video games now. And there should be other brands of cars besides Porsche and Jaguar, so regular people can afford to buy cars too.

"Best Experience: Multiple faceplates" (1)

Gojira Shipi-Taro (465802) | more than 8 years ago | (#13370696)

Now this is just rediculous. One of the comparison columns (one reading :Good experience/Best experience" or something similar)reads

Good Experience: Faceplate
Best Experience: Multiple faceplates

Seriously who is going to waste money on more than one plastic faceplate for these things? I can see maybe one to match the room, but several?

I think whoever in marketing over there came up with the face plate thing is getting a little desperate.

Re:"Best Experience: Multiple faceplates" (1)

Toby_Tyke (797359) | more than 8 years ago | (#13372830)

Seriously who is going to waste money on more than one plastic faceplate for these things?

Question: Do you actually know any 13 year olds?

Trust me, those things will sell like hot cakes.

Good stuff (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#13370912)

The retail prices shown for the accessories don't really leave any doubt as to what most people will end up buying ($399 system). I do like the ideas of some accessories like the wireless ethernet adapter, controller recharger, etc. I do wish the headset was bluetooth, similar to a cell phone headset. Whether or not I'll be purchasing more accessories than what comes w/ the $399 is yet to be determined. What this does show however is the evolution of the XBox.

Video cables... (1)

Fred Or Alive (738779) | more than 8 years ago | (#13371202)

I wish they'd put a nice RGB SCART cable in the UK systems, instead people without fancy new TVs that take YUV / HDTV are stuck with yukky composite again (well, it's better than RF), unless they buy an extra cable. Wow, that's going to be great to show off the extra power of the 360 on older TVs (which usually take RGB SCART, but not YUV). Although I suppose the YUV cable is good for the rich gits with really new TVs, and Microsoft's HDTV message.

Then again, they are offering a VGA cable, that is going to be good (I love my Dreamcast VGA box), I don't have a HDTV, so beig able to use my monitor is good, if this HD stuff is all that it's cracked up to be. (But I find my Xbox on a good TV through RGB SCART is great already).

Re:Video cables... (1)

vonPoonBurGer (680105) | more than 8 years ago | (#13374723)

I hate to say it, but SCART is pretty much dead, for two reasons:
1) it can't carry digital signals
2) it can't carry surround sound signals
SCART was an interesting all-in-one design that was great in its day, but it wasn't adequately future-proofed, and it never made any impression in markets outside of Europe. See this page [wikipedia.org] for more info. Welcome to the digital future, I hope a new TV is in your budget! Seriously though, they're going to all the trouble of enforcing HD content, they want to encourage people to actually use HD, rather than maximizing their SD experience. On top of that, SCART is not DRM-capable like the forthcoming HDCP digital standard, something MS is keenly aware of since their box can play DVDs.

Business-related FYI (2, Interesting)

BlackCobra43 (596714) | more than 8 years ago | (#13371380)

The XBOX360 will only be assigned two different SKUs by retailers, as SKUs are NOT assigned by the manufacturer. The manufacturer assigns the product an EAN.

In fact, the XBOX360 will probably have hundreds of SKUs if you consider the number of retailers that will carry it...

Pricing (1)

Botia (855350) | more than 8 years ago | (#13371381)

It looks like your cost will be:
$399.99 for console
$ 49.99 for a second wireless console
$ 59.99 for a game
$ 59.99 for a second game
-------
$569.96 for a system

Then you must wait until the PS3 comes out to get Halo 3. While I'm extremely excited about the XBOX 360, I may have to wait a while before I pick one up.

Re:Pricing (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#13374499)

you forgot the Live account.. what's that? another 50 bux a year?

Comedy Gold (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#13371651)

Look at the peripheral list. They are selling a thingy that loads the wireless controller's battery while you play. Via a cable. Plugged to the XBox. With a (probably) shorter cord than the regular wired controller.

On a related note, I hate wireless controllers. Hate, hate, HATE them. It makes me a saaaad panda that of the next generation consoles only XBox has wired controllers.

OT: Is anything new being posted? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#13372076)

Recent articles haven't got any posts. Is there an international boycott of Slashdot that no one told me about?

What You Get For Your Money? (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#13372111)

Dreamcast 2.

But without backward compatibility. (Yes without Xbox 1 compatibility either.)

That's it.

What You Get For Your Money? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#13372338)

Dreamcast 2, without backward compatibility. That's it.

Those who want Halo 3, wait 1 year and get Xbox 360 @ $199 including 2 free games!

I think most people are missing the real battle... (4, Insightful)

Turken (139591) | more than 8 years ago | (#13372365)

Here we go with everyone complaining about the base price of the console, but we should really be all up in arms about the accessory prices.

One look at the brochure, and all I can say is HO...LY...CR...AP that stuff is expensive!!! $40 for a memory card?!? $40 for a WIRED controller?!?
$30-40 for an AV cable ?!? I can't think of any console in recent memory that cost THAT much for BASIC accessories, let alone the specialty ones.

And combine this with the news from a few weeks ago that says that 3rd part manufacturs will have to pay up to MS or their hardware won't work with the system, so there goes any chance of cheaper options for cables and such.

Folks, we are getting ripped off here, regardless of which package we buy!

Re:I think most people are missing the real battle (1)

Fred Or Alive (738779) | more than 8 years ago | (#13372716)

From a UK perspective, those prices seem about the same as I'd pay now anyway.

I looked through the UK RRPs (Recommended Retail Prices), and all the various acessories seem about the same price, RRP-wise, as the Xbox 1 equivelants (or in the case of the wireless controller, the Nintendo Wavebird). And they tally with the US prices you give, in rough GBP->USD conversions.

Although looking at PS2 accessories, they're slightly cheaper than Xbox stuff. (PS2 controller RRP is £20, Xbox is £25, same for memory cards)

One thing to remember is that these are RRPs, you can nearly always get stuff cheaper than that, they're basically the upper limit, shops (especially online ones) nearly always have discounts (although perhaps not at launch).

Re:I think most people are missing the real battle (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#13373464)

From a UK perspective, those prices seem about the same as I'd pay now anyway.

Those are US prices. You'll probably be paying the same amount over that you would be on anything else video game related. If I recall right, that means about half again what it costs in the USA, so $60 for the memory card, etc.

Re:I think most people are missing the real battle (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#13373450)

$40 for a memory card?

You mean as opposed to $25 for an 8MB Playstation 2 memory card? That's $3.1 per MB vs the 360's $0.63 per MB (assuming it's 64MB) - for the capacity the 360's memory card is five times cheaper.

http://www.ebgames.com/ebx/product/181973.asp [ebgames.com]

$40 for a WIRED controller?

The ceramic white Playstation 2 controller is $45. Sure, the regular ones are $30, but my point is: there's a wired Playstation 2 controller that you have to pay more than $40 to get (if you can get it) anywhere:

http://froogle.google.com/froogle?scoring=pd&q=psx +controller+ceramic&btnG=Search+Froogle [google.com]

$30-40 for an AV cable?

The official Playstation 2 S-Video cable retails for $30 (I paid about $35 when I bought mine from my local game store a few years back). 3rd party ones are cheaper ($7-ish), but they're too cheap to carry a decent signal (I've tried them):

http://froogle.google.com/froogle?q=playstation+2+ s-video&hl=en&lr=&c2coff=1&client=firefox-a&rls=or g.mozilla:en-US:official&tab=wf&pid=47854049772643 76141 [google.com]

So the prices are actually pretty similar to the Playstation 2's. Except that the Playstation 2 has been out for years and from the way you're behaving you'd have thought everything would be $2 a pop by now - the official accessories are still expensive (and in my experience, 3rd party brands sometimes have inconsistent quality and are not usually worth it). So the grass isn't really any greener on the PS2 fanboy side of the fence.

Re:I think most people are missing the real battle (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#13374402)

You mean as opposed to $25 for an 8MB Playstation 2 memory card? That's $3.1 per MB vs the 360's $0.63 per MB (assuming it's 64MB) - for the capacity the 360's memory card is five times cheaper.

Well I don't see a smaller or cheaper memory card do you? What if I don't want to spend $40? What if I don't need 64 megs? What about the fact that saved games are getting bigger and bigger? Who cares if the card is 64 megs if it can't hold many saved games? Price per meg is pointless in that respect.

Think about it this way. If you buy the base system for $299 you can't even fucking save your games with out buying a $40 fucking memory card. That's almost half the price difference of just buying the god damn $399 package.

While we're on the price per meg subject why not take a look at that $100 20 gig harddrive. How does that compare to the 300 gig drives I can buy on newegg.com for $150 bucks or cheaper.

The ceramic white Playstation 2 controller is $45. Sure, the regular ones are $30, but my point is: there's a wired Playstation 2 controller that you have to pay more than $40 to get (if you can get it) anywhere

Gee you managed to point out one controller that costs the same. I'm proud of you. You completely dodged his other point. The fact that you might not be able to buy a controller for LESS than $40 for the 360. Tell me something. Can you buy a controller for less than $40 for the PS2? Oh wait you already answered that question.

So the prices are actually pretty similar to the Playstation 2's

No. They aren't. The HIGH end prices for the PS2 are on par with the LOW end prices for the 360. How is that similar?

Re:I think most people are missing the real battle (2, Insightful)

funny-jack (741994) | more than 8 years ago | (#13373701)

Folks, we are getting ripped off here, regardless of which package we buy!

You're only getting ripped off if you, you know, actually buy one. Nobody's forcing you to do so.

Why even look at the lower model. (2, Interesting)

tprime (673835) | more than 8 years ago | (#13372910)

Yes, the lower model is a colossal mistake, talk about segmenting your user population. The only mitigating factor is that I can't figure out why ANYONE would buy the cheap version for $100 less. Wireless controller is $10 more, Component HDAV cable is $40 more, headset $20 more, Hard drive $100 more = $170 diff + no premium (good) games and no xbox1 games.

Re:Why even look at the lower model. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#13374080)

Oh, I know who will buy the core system. Parents. People who have kids and not much $ or game experience, but want to compensate for all sorts of troubles by going all-out for Christmas. It happens every year.

They don't know about the harddrive, etc. They will only see that the price is a full $100 less and it will still play all the new games. It will even play Halo 3 when it comes out... don't the kids mention Halo a lot? To their minds, it would be crazy to buy the super-nerd rich-kid version. Most people tell them that it is really hard to find a system at all.

Once they make this decision, they will be told that they need to buy a memory card... ok, the old playstation needed memory cards to save the disk games. It's a little steep, but it's Christmas! Similar logic for the second controller.

The kids don't need a remote control, and they really shouldn't have online chatting anyway.

Heck, they may buy a few of the cheaper xbox1 games to make sure the kid is busy, given the rest of the investment.

Then, after Christmas is over and the kids eagery tore open the box and played the xbox 360 release games, the tell Mom and Dad that they can't get Halo 2 to work...

Mom and Dad eventually find out that they need the $100 harddrive to play Halo 2. You also need the harddrive to play all the new games well.

If they got the super happy system then they wouldn't be having problems... but now they have to buy the $100 harddrive (along with anything else they want to upgrade) and they get mad.

They complain to the game store workers that they want to take the system back to get the super happy version, but the box has already been opened. They promise never to guy from that store again and leave angry... and buy the harddrive from another game store.

So yes, I really have no doubt that all the core systems will rapidly sell out.

Re:Why even look at the lower model. (1)

PeelBoy (34769) | more than 8 years ago | (#13374802)

Consider this.

The base system costs $299 and has not way to save games.

The smallest and cheapest memory card I see for saving games costs $40. You pretty much have to have that.

I suppose you could get that and 1 game for the price of the standard(*cough* delux *cough* yeah we all know it's not delux it's the fucking standard system. MS marketing at its best) system, but why not just spend the extra $60 for the full package?

Bah nevermind. You're right. Parents will probably still go for the stripped down systeme especially if the standard one sells out during the hollidays.

Overpriced? Buy Revolution! (1)

jkeyes (243984) | more than 8 years ago | (#13374365)

It seems to me everyone is bitching and moaning about having to buy an Xbox 360 at $400 and a PS3 at god knows how much (I'd get my bank's loan department on speed dial) so instead why not buy Revolution? Yes I'm suggesting you forgo getting the latest and greatest from Sony & MS and yes you probably won't be able to play GTA on it and you won't be able to play Halo on it but look at what it's got. First off it'll probably retail at $200 so that puts it at a $100-200 advantage against Xbox and god knows how much against PS3. Secondly it'll support real backwards compatibility, it'll play Gamecube games and if you're willing to pay a little bit of money it'll also play your favorite NES, SNES & N64 games. There are plenty of good Gamecube games that aren't full of violence and blood that are actually fun! (yes you can have games that are fun without blood it's a shock to the system I know you'd better take a lay down and come back later I'll wait) Better? Let's just look at launch day for Xbox 360 & Gamecube. So on Xbox 360 launch day after you pay your $400 + $50 game (we'll assume they're not $60 yet) + tax you're at ~$480 (I used my sales tax of 6.5%). Now lets look at revolution launch day. You pay your $200 + $50 for a game + tax and you get ~$267 so you have about $213 left after buying revolution which you could use to buy a spare controller, more games (new Zelda anyone?) or just old games through the online game service. Now I really doubt I'll sway anyone with this but I mean just look at the numbers guys why not save your $400 now buy a Revolution and then wait for the eventual price drops that you know will happen by Christmas '06 or at worst May '07 Yes you might miss out on the latest GTA but by the time you do buy it it'll be $20.

What happened to wireless built-in? (1)

smaffei (565629) | more than 8 years ago | (#13375676)

Wasn't that part of the original XBox 360 proposal? I guess those IBM processors are pricier than originally anticipated.
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