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RSS Wins, Signals Atom's Death Toll?

Hemos posted about 9 years ago | from the well-maybe dept.

The Internet 249

S. Housley writes " RSS appears to have conquered the last hurdle in becoming the industry syndication standard. Microsoft's inclusion of RSS into the newest version of Internet Explorer and reports that RSS will be in Longhorn's coming release appears to be the final nail in the coffin of the Atom specification. Even Atom's steadfast supporter Google, appears to have seen the light. Google had previously acquired Blogger, a popular blogging tool that uses the Atom specification to syndicate the contents of blogs created on the Blogger platform. In the past Google had strategically steered clear of endorsing the RSS specification hoping that Atom, would take hold. Google's recent new service that allows web surfers to monitor Google News using either RSS or Atom feeds, appears to be an acknowledgment that perhaps in purchasing Blogger, they chose the wrong specification. "

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Atom's Death Toll (5, Funny)

daveschroeder (516195) | about 9 years ago | (#13373538)

Wow, how many people did Atom kill? I always liked RSS better anyway. Now that I know not only that RSS isn't a killer, but has also been monitoring Atom's killing, and indeed even signaling its death toll to the authorities, I'm even more in support of it.

Now if only RSS could sound Atom's death knell...

(In case the editors have seen fit to correct it, the original title was "Developers: RSS' Win, Signals Atom's Death Toll".)

Re:Atom's Death Toll (1, Funny)

Radres (776901) | about 9 years ago | (#13373577)

(In case the editors have seen fit to correct it...

Ha. Hahaha. HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Re:Atom's Death Toll (4, Funny)

minus_273 (174041) | about 9 years ago | (#13373592)

are you sure it wasn't a Death Troll?
"RSS' Win, Signals Atom's Death Toll" could really be an article about Orcs on the rampage after receiving the fiery signal of RSS' victory on the glorious battlefield.

Re:Atom's Death Toll (5, Informative)

VoidWraith (797276) | about 9 years ago | (#13373600)

Not only that, but the comma has no place there...

Re:Atom's Death Toll (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 years ago | (#13373667)

I fail to see how that is off topic. Its simply an elaboration on the same subject: which is that the subject is flawed!

Re:Atom's Death Toll (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 years ago | (#13373645)

'Toll' is a perfectly appropriate word; from answers.com:

knell: To ring slowly and solemnly, especially for a funeral; toll.

toll: To sound (a large bell) slowly at regular intervals.

Admittedly 'knell' is the better of the two words but the use of 'toll' is not wrong.

Re:Atom's Death Toll (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 years ago | (#13373665)

Or even more obvious, from m-w.com: Main Entry: 1knell
Pronunciation: 'nel
Function: verb
Etymology: Middle English, from Old English cnyllan; akin to Middle High German erknellen to toll
transitive senses : to summon or announce by or as if by a knell intransitive senses
1 : to ring especially for a death, funeral, or disaster : TOLL
2 : to sound in an ominous manner or with an ominous effect

Re:Atom's Death Toll (5, Informative)

daveschroeder (516195) | about 9 years ago | (#13373697)

No, you're actually wrong.

We're not talking about individual words here, for one, we're talking about phrases.

"Death toll" is the total number of people who die as a result of a disaster or other adverse event.

"Death knell" is a bell rung to announce death, or an omen of death or destruction.

So to say "death toll" in this context is completely and utterly wrong, and the fact that "toll", on its own, also can mean to ring a bell is actually completely unrelated and incidental.

But even if we do, for a moment, accept your assertion that "death toll" is an acceptable use here, the use of "signals" in conjunction with it as also meaningless.

Let's face it: the author meant to say "sounds the death knell" or "rings the death knell" or something to that effect, and just got it horribly, horribly wrong in his mind, likely using the same logic you did ("Hmm, I've heard about a bell tolling before, so "death toll" must be what I'm looking for.").

Re:Atom's Death Toll (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 years ago | (#13373703)

Well, I think the point he was getting at that, when used in everyday conversation, "death toll" usually has a completely different connotation than "death knell".

However, I must thank the submitter for giving me the image of a syndication standard running around gunning down web sites and clients.

Re:Atom's Death Toll (1)

Martin Blank (154261) | about 9 years ago | (#13373694)

Would the toning of an RSS reader for the update of the Slashdot feed to include this story count as sounding the death knell?

Re:Atom's Death Toll (1)

randm.ca (901207) | about 9 years ago | (#13373707)

I'm not an English major, but I don't see how "Death Knell" is any more correct than "Death Toll". Sure, using knell would have been less ambiguous than toll, but if you really want to pick on the title, you would have been better off questioning the comma.

Re:Atom's Death Toll (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 years ago | (#13373743)

The headline in effect is saying that Atom killed a lot of people. And somehow RSS won something and this anounced the death toll. The death toll is the number of people killed. That's the expression, that's just the way it is. And the extraneous comma doesn't help one little bit.

Ask not for whom the bell tolls, (1)

cwmitchell (901393) | about 9 years ago | (#13373723)

It tolls for thee I guess John Donne was a grammatically incorrect Slashdot editor as well.

Re:Ask not for whom the bell tolls, (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 years ago | (#13373817)

If you can't see the difference between "bell tolls" and "death toll", you're a fucking retard, pretentious reference to John Donne notwithstanding.

Re:Atom's Death Toll (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 years ago | (#13373745)

In case the editors have seen fit to correct it...

You must be new here!

A better question is: (0, Flamebait)

Marc2k (221814) | about 9 years ago | (#13373837)

What is RMS' death toll?

I'd imagine he's got some seriouslykiller funk surrounding him, Free Software evangelists don't have time to shower, y'know.

Re:Atom's Death Toll (3, Funny)

ch-chuck (9622) | about 9 years ago | (#13373873)

Guess you could say that Atom bombed - which would explain the death toll.

Article from a biased company (5, Insightful)

bigwavejas (678602) | about 9 years ago | (#13373540)

RSS may have won the Atom/RSS battle, but for Feedforall.com to make such matter-of-fact statements such as,

"Google's recent new service that allows web surfers to monitor Google News using either RSS or Atom feeds, appears to be an acknowledgment that perhaps in purchasing Blogger, they chose the wrong specification."

...When they're a company that exclusively promotes the use of RSS, it seems a bit self-righteous; moreover, presumptuous that Google is simply writing off Atom.

Re:Article from a biased company (5, Interesting)

TheRaven64 (641858) | about 9 years ago | (#13373716)

And didn't Atom recently become an official IETF standard? It seems a lot more of a win than being embedded in beta versions of Vista - it seems unlikely that Vista will ship without support for all three, if it does then that will give Apple something else to crow about since Safari supports RSS, Atom and RSS.

Re:Article from a biased company (2, Insightful)

hritcu (871613) | about 9 years ago | (#13373980)

You guys sound like Vista is going to ship sometime soon. I wonder if they will make it in 2006? 2007? Or MS fains will have to wait till 2008 to be able to run the newest and coolest windows. With MS-RSS support, of course.

Re:Article from a biased company (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 years ago | (#13373767)

Sharon's name is linked to notepage.net, feedforall.com is owned by notepage, and her opinions on RSS and Atom are on the feedforall.com site. I smell a lotta self promotion going on. How much you wanna bet there'll be lots of bragging about how they got /.ed?

Re:Article from a biased company (1)

legirons (809082) | about 9 years ago | (#13373809)

" Microsoft's inclusion of RSS into the newest version of Internet Explorer appears to be the final nail in the coffin of the Atom specification"

{{npov}} {{cleanup}}

Re:Article from a biased company (2, Informative)

GreenHell (209242) | about 9 years ago | (#13373833)

Even better: when they're a company that exclusively promotes the use of RSS and they don't even have a valid RSS feed [feedvalidator.org] , it seems like a good reason to laugh at them.

Re:Article from a biased company (3, Insightful)

His name cannot be s (16831) | about 9 years ago | (#13373874)

"When they're a company that exclusively promotes the use of RSS, it seems a bit self-righteous; moreover, presumptuous that Google is simply writing off Atom."

No kidding, given the rest of the facts:

Microsoft already stated that they would be using xml namespaces to add to RSS. Which is exactly what Dave Winer who published RSS 2.0 [wikipedia.org] intended. Microsoft actually consulted Dave before getting very far too. Quote: [reallysimp...cation.com] "Anyway, there's a lot more to what they're doing, but I wanted to say in advance that I think what they're doing is cool. "

Additionally, Microsoft has stated support for Atom as well. [msdn.com]

Heh.

Re:Article from a biased company (2, Informative)

jevvim (826181) | about 9 years ago | (#13373988)

And to top it off, the submitter's name links to NotePage, which operates the FeedForAll site [feedforall.com] as well. And yet, no "conflict of interest" warning from the submitter.

MSRSS (5, Interesting)

Langley (1015) | about 9 years ago | (#13373554)

Wan't Microsoft making noise a little while ago about adding some extensions to RSS. Isn't this the only reason they are including RSS in IE, not because of some heartwarming realization that no company is an island?

Never mind that, look how low your ID is :-o (0, Offtopic)

Low Slashdot ID Guy! (909023) | about 9 years ago | (#13373601)

Honestly who cares about atom/schmatom when you've got an ID like yours.

Re:MSRSS (0, Offtopic)

R2.0 (532027) | about 9 years ago | (#13373664)

Next:

MSRSSIPPI: Don't know what it means, but I can spell it because it is catchy.

Re:MSRSS (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 years ago | (#13373802)

RSS has 2 things working against it, 1st is Dave Winer and the second is a Microsoft implementation. In an ideal world, the involvement of such unbalanced entities would be enough to sound the death of anything. **Sigh**

Atom spec may be a standards track but Microsoft's comming implementation will negate any advantages. This is why I'm going to start publishing my feeds in glorious, bandwidth-saving ASCII!

Don't you mean embraced&extended RSS (5, Informative)

team99parody (880782) | about 9 years ago | (#13373556)

I thought Microsoft endorsed their embraced and extended and renamed RSS [pcworld.com] . Seems like it's now not Atom vs RSS, but "Web Feeds" vs RSS.

Re:Don't you mean embraced&extended RSS (1, Funny)

savuporo (658486) | about 9 years ago | (#13373595)

Microsoft taking a perfectly good standard, "extending" it on their own and claiming it theirs ?
Why, but thats impossible, that has never happened before and could never happen !

Re:Don't you mean embraced&extended RSS (2, Interesting)

Jugalator (259273) | about 9 years ago | (#13373952)

I thought Microsoft endorsed their embraced and extended and renamed RSS. Seems like it's now not Atom vs RSS, but "Web Feeds" vs RSS.

Err...

This just seem to be a rebranding like Firefox and "Live Bookmarks".

Numerous hints at it in the article too:

Because of this, its renaming of RSS is not a sign the company is trying to remake the technology for its own purposes but rather a way to make a distinction between RSS and a feature of IE.

Microsoft is adding RSS functionality to the next version of Windows, Windows Vista, primarily through the IE 7 version of its Web browser.

Of course, there's an RSS zealot saying this too:

"Like it or not Microsoft, the technology is called RSS. If you try to change that, for whatever reason, you will get routed around," wrote Winer, a software guru who is credited with pioneering RSS and other Web standards.

Did he complain as loudly when competing web browsers introduced RSS support under other names? Or is it a Microsoft thing... again? I must ask myself if he visits HTML pages or websites as well.

Re:Don't you mean embraced&extended RSS (3, Interesting)

Midnight Thunder (17205) | about 9 years ago | (#13373958)

Microsoft is not the only one to embrace and extend. Apple seems to have done the same thing with the Podcast file spec (which is RSS based):

How To Publish a Podcast on the iTunes Music Store [apple.com]

Does netcraft confirm it? (5, Funny)

TheAvatar666 (670893) | about 9 years ago | (#13373558)

We all know for a fact that if Netcraft doesn't confirm it, it is not dead, so let me repeat. Does netcraft confirm it?

Re:Does netcraft confirm it? (1)

iggymanz (596061) | about 9 years ago | (#13373673)

haha, netcraft provides email newsfeeds.

Re:Does netcraft confirm it? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 years ago | (#13373981)

Ah ha! What you're saying is that Netcraft confirms that both RSS and Atom are dying!

Save Atom (0, Redundant)

bart416 (900487) | about 9 years ago | (#13373560)

We need to save Atom, any way possible. Its beter then RSS for sure.

doesnt matter what or why they have blogger (1)

solosaint (699000) | about 9 years ago | (#13373562)

so what, google has so much money to play with they could just buy another service, like xanga.. xanga.com/solosaint

Which RSS did Microsoft embrace? (3, Insightful)

hta (7593) | about 9 years ago | (#13373586)

does anyone have real info on which version numbers of RSS (and according to whose spec) works with the Microsoft implementation?

Never mind that, look how low your ID is :-o (-1, Offtopic)

Low Slashdot ID Guy! (909023) | about 9 years ago | (#13373795)

7593, I only wish :-(

Re:Which RSS did Microsoft embrace? (2, Informative)

vcv (526771) | about 9 years ago | (#13373835)

All of them. They also are going to support Atom.

FUD, FUD, and more FUD (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 years ago | (#13373589)

About the Author: Sharon Housley manages marketing for FeedForAll http://www.feedforall.com/ [feedforall.com] software for creating, editing, publishing RSS feeds and podcasts.

Wow. It's a marketing plant trumpeting that RSS is now the standard, made by a company that specialises in RSS feeds.

Follow the registrants... (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 years ago | (#13373918)

...and you'll see this is nothing more than a typical Slashvertisement.

"S. Housley (notepage.net) writes..."

notepage.net
Registrant:
NOTEPAGE, INC.
291 Rockand St, Suite 13
HANOVER, MA 02339 US

"...RSS appears to have conquered the last hurdle (feedforall.com)..."

feedforall.com
Registrant:
NOTEPAGE, INC.
291 Rockand St, Suite 13
HANOVER, MA 02339 US

Well played/paid, editors!

microsoft is going to support ATOM too (5, Informative)

kard (670433) | about 9 years ago | (#13373594)

from:

http://blogs.msdn.com/rssteam/ [msdn.com]

"
Beta 1 of Windows Vista and IE 7 for XP currently supports the web feed formats RSS .9x, RSS 1.0, and RSS 2.0. As Sean mentioned, Atom 0.3 and Atom 1.0 support will come in a later release.
"

What's with the bias? (5, Funny)

MagikSlinger (259969) | about 9 years ago | (#13373597)

That's hands down the most biased "news" posting I've seen on Slashdot... this month.

Re:What's with the bias? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 years ago | (#13373625)

It's an advertisement in disguise. If you click the name of the submitter you can see the software he's selling.

Re:What's with the bias? (2, Interesting)

LnxAddct (679316) | about 9 years ago | (#13373894)

The submitter is the owner of a company specializing in RSS editing/creation software.
Regards,
Steve

Re:What's with the bias? (1)

Kelson (129150) | about 9 years ago | (#13374089)

Yeah, this is kind of like saying "Service providers are now offering Linux in addition to FreeBSD, therefore, BSD is dying."

WTF????

Crack monkey (5, Insightful)

LordMyren (15499) | about 9 years ago | (#13373599)

You crack rock smoking monkey, only like .5% of the web denziens actually use some form of syndication. Most people havent the foggiest idea what RSS even is. So, MS puts RSS into IE: suddenly RSS is going to overrun atom? Somehow I think not.

IMO, atom is a far better protocol. The creators obviously tried to integrate the protocol with existing XML standards, v. RSS which basically gets as far as tag>. Its far more clear about its payload and is way better suited towards XML delivery. But, decide for yourself [tbray.org] .

I see no problem with the current duality. I do wish Atom were available more places, but I can still live with RSS where I need to.

Myren

Much ado about nothing (2, Insightful)

winkydink (650484) | about 9 years ago | (#13373624)

As you point out, only a tiny percentage of users actually use some form of syndication. Doesn't this really boil down to, "who cares?"

Re:Crack monkey (1)

cowscows (103644) | about 9 years ago | (#13373729)

I think the point is, the only thing that can beat a good buzz-word is a good buzz-acronym. Yeah, Atom...that sounds pretty cool. But RSS, holy crap, it must stand for something totally complex and awesome and revolutionary.

RSS. Just say it to yourself over and over again. It rolls off the tongue. Next to a well designed acronym such as that, Atom just seems really simple.

Re:Crack monkey (1)

FLEB (312391) | about 9 years ago | (#13373886)

RSS. Just say it to yourself over and over again. It rolls off the tongue.

"Arses?"

Re:Crack monkey (1)

bloodstar (866306) | about 9 years ago | (#13373758)

IMO, atom is a far better protocol. The creators obviously tried to integrate the protocol with existing XML standards, v. RSS which basically gets as far as tag>. Its far more clear about its payload and is way better suited towards XML delivery.

Better? Perhaps, but then again, so was Beta. And we all know how Beta fared against VHS.

Re:Crack monkey (1)

JoseFilipe (794838) | about 9 years ago | (#13374103)

Unfortunately, most of the times the best format doesn't win.
It's the industry backing that counts.

Google (1)

gkozlyk (247448) | about 9 years ago | (#13373609)

With an extra $4 Billion I guess Google can go purchase another company like M$ does.

The trend of RSS vs Atom doesn't seem too surprising with the popularity rise of RSS feeds, viewers and general content from the major news and tech sites.

Shameless advert, and fud fud fud (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 years ago | (#13373611)

Heh, no one is going to buy your $40 RSS reader....so stop trying to spead fud to increase your sales. How much do slashdot charge for shameless advertising?

Formats don't die (4, Insightful)

mveloso (325617) | about 9 years ago | (#13373630)

Old formats don't die, they just go into maintenance mode.

Saying one format or another has won is always premature. The only time it's safe to say that a format is dead is when they have to build new equipment to read it because the hardware is missing. And even then you never know.

This article is obviously biased. It's like when Netscape said "the desktop is dead" when the Java plugin was first released.

Formats don't die ... they get upgraded (1)

hritcu (871613) | about 9 years ago | (#13374047)

For example RSS is being upgraded even at this moment [rss3.org] .

Is that so? (5, Informative)

savala (874118) | about 9 years ago | (#13373633)

Strange that...
Windows Vista will support all common RSS formats, including: RSS 1.0, 2.0 and Atom 0.3. We will support Atom 1.0 when it's released.
source: msdn.microsoft.com [microsoft.com]

Re:Is that so? (1)

Nuclear Elephant (700938) | about 9 years ago | (#13373749)

Windows Vista will support all common RSS formats, including: RSS 1.0, 2.0 and Atom 0.3. We will support Atom 1.0 when it's released.

In an attempt to meet deadline, the revised version now reads:

Windows Vista will support [snip snip] RSS [snip snip] with a patch made available in Service Pack 1.

Re:Is that so? (1)

Brandybuck (704397) | about 9 years ago | (#13373931)

These specifications are light enough, that not including support for both is misguided. Why piss off all your Atom users when they're so cheap to support? I think this attempt to make RSS vs. Atom into the next religious war is silly.

Articles, with extra, commas (4, Funny)

blueZ3 (744446) | about 9 years ago | (#13373643)

are, frequently posted, on slashdot. They, often amuse, me.

Re:Articles, with extra, commas (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 years ago | (#13373706)

It would seem, that some people, put commas when they pause typing, instead of where the reader should pause, while reading.

Of course, if I,, did, that, my, sentences,, would,,, look,,,,like,,this, .,

Re:Articles, with extra, commas (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 years ago | (#13373740)

I think the submitter must have mod points. Anyone who criticizes the commas is getting modded offtopic. =P

Re:Articles, with extra, commas (3, Funny)

TheSpoom (715771) | about 9 years ago | (#13373794)

Mr. Shatner, I didn't know you posted on Slashdot! Can I have your autograph?

RSS vs. ATOM (3, Interesting)

digitalgimpus (468277) | about 9 years ago | (#13373648)

I've seen people in both camps, but have yet to see a true pro/con list for each. Anyone care to share?

I've implemented RSS before, never bothered with ATOM, since RSS seems to be better supported client side.

What are the advantages/disadvantages of each standard?

Re:RSS vs. ATOM (5, Informative)

metamatic (202216) | about 9 years ago | (#13373705)

RSS has 11 different varieties, 9 if you exclude the two attempts at an "RSS 3". Atom has a single variety.

RSS 1.0 has a way to include HTML in the feed. RSS 2.0 doesn't. Atom does, and also supports XHTML.

RSS 1.0 is extensible in a standard way via namespaces. RSS 2.0 is extended via ad-hoc additions. Atom is extensible via namespaces.

Atom is more complicated than RSS 1.0, which is more complicated than RSS 2.0.

Re:RSS vs. ATOM (1)

LionKimbro (200000) | about 9 years ago | (#13373830)

It doesn't really matter.

Really, it doesn't. It's like picking what color wire you want.

That said: ATOM specifies a bunch of stuff about how to publish entries and stuff.

It's working it's way through the IETF, if I understand right.

Basically, serious net work is going into Atom. I strongly suspect I'll be using it in the near future.

But again, it hardly matters at all. There are tons of tools that accept and publish everything.

well... (3, Funny)

DarkLox (621089) | about 9 years ago | (#13373651)

When GoogleOS comes out, and they buy out Microsoft and Atom will live again

Who Cares? (5, Informative)

WombatControl (74685) | about 9 years ago | (#13373656)

To be honest, the RSS vs. Atom thing is a lot like DVD+R and DVD-R - at this point they might as well be interchangeable.

Just about every feed parser handles both Atom and RSS feeds. Using a tool like Magpie RSS [sourceforge.net] (PHP) or the Universal Feed Parser [feedparser.org] (Python) the format of any given feed is entirely transparent to application developers. RSS 1.0? RSS 2.0? Atom 0.3? It all gets processed by the parser in a nearly identical way.

Already tools like Movable Type/Typepad [sixapart.com] or WordPress [wordpress.org] generate both RSS and Atom feeds by default. The vast majority of users don't know and don't care which feed format they're reading so long as it works. Both the toolkits and the applications use both formats and there's really little reason why they can't continue to support both.

There doesn't have to be a single "winner" in the syndication feed wars. Atom and RSS can exist together for some time, and arguing that this is a zero-sum game in which one and only one feed format can exist is ridiculous. As long as the difference is transparent to end users, and relatively transparent to developers, neither format will totally conquer the other.

Re:Who Cares? (3, Insightful)

metamatic (202216) | about 9 years ago | (#13373822)

Well, developers care, because the RSS specs (all nine different ones) are a mess, whereas Atom is quite carefully specified. RSS has the same problems as "Netscape HTML", whereas Atom is more like XHTML.

Re:Who Cares? (1)

Brandybuck (704397) | about 9 years ago | (#13373970)

Then why not use a feed parser as the GP suggested?

BFD (2, Interesting)

scovetta (632629) | about 9 years ago | (#13373670)

Atom is an export format, right? So is rss. They're a little different. So someone at the Googleplex needs to write blog2rss.py and they can get rid of blog2atom.py.

Or does Atom have something to do with the way the data is stored internally? And I think Google did pretty well with Blogger-- it's like saying, "Google chose wrong when they bought Blogger, because Blogger used a different stylesheet on their home page than Google does."

Isn't this cute ... but it's wrong!!! (5, Informative)

hritcu (871613) | about 9 years ago | (#13373671)

RSS with its 9 [diveintomark.org] +1 [rss3.org] incompatible versions is hardly a standard for anything. It is a huge pain for a implementer to decide which versions to support. Microsoft decided to support (one version of) RSS for now because it has been around for longer and we know how reticent is Microsoft to everythig new. So, for Microsot, RSS is of course better then nothing.

However, it is just wrong to say that the format war is over and RSS has won. Atom is a coherent standard now being finished under the umbrella of the IETF [ietf.org] , and it is just now just starting to catch. And it will, because many of us have had enough RSS bullshit. We already had a disscussion [slashdot.org] with the guy behind RSS 3.0 which convinced me that with guys like him writing the RSS specs (just for the love of writing), RSS is REALLY DOOMED.

Information on the Author/Submitter. (5, Informative)

magicchex (898936) | about 9 years ago | (#13373710)

Taken from the bottom of the article:

About the Author: Sharon Housley manages marketing for FeedForAll http://www.feedforall.com/ [feedforall.com] software for creating, editing, publishing RSS feeds and podcasts. In addition Sharon manages marketing for FeedForDev http://www.feedfordev.com/ [feedfordev.com] an RSS component for developers. In addition Sharon manages marketing for NotePage http://www.notepage.net/ [notepage.net] a wireless text messaging software company.

Needless to say, submitting your own obviously biased, commercially inspired, and untrue article is a tad transparent, but what do I know?

smartass (1)

l3v1 (787564) | about 9 years ago | (#13373730)

in becoming the industry syndication standard. Microsoft's inclusion of RSS into the newest version of Internet Explorer and reports that RSS will be in Longhorn's coming release appears to be the final nail in the coffin of the Atom specification

Yup, I have nothing more to add besides: smartass.

Ok, just one more thing: for such smartasses managed MS to be where it is by acting as it acted along the last two decades. Like "ms does it so it is the good thing, everything else sucks". Zealotry school.

commas (1)

samkass (174571) | about 9 years ago | (#13373738)

That article, was difficult, to read, between all the, commas.

RSS man (5, Funny)

thermostat42 (112272) | about 9 years ago | (#13373741)

RSS man, RSS man,
RSS man hates Atom man,
They have a fight, RSS wins.
RSS man.

Captain Obvious (3, Insightful)

Red Flayer (890720) | about 9 years ago | (#13373747)

Breaking news, RSS is favored by industry giants! Use RSS, support for Atom is disappearing!

Oh, and by the way, we happen to produce software to manage your RSS needs!

"Now that Atom's attempt at replacing RSS has fallen flat, the syndication arena will likely see significant innovation and progress."

Yes, that's what competition does, it stifles innovation.

Seriously, though, uniform standards can be great, saving dev time for loads of people and companies.

But I'd say that, at the very least, this promotional material (that's what it is) is putting the cart before the horse, and is also poorly written. I'd like to read a detailed analysis by an industry expert (not a marketing department), who is qualified to project market share for the standards.

Also: Google's recent new service that allows web surfers to monitor Google News using either RSS or Atom feeds, appears to be an acknowledgment that perhaps in purchasing Blogger, they chose the wrong specification.

Actually, this appears to be an acknowledgement that (1) Google would like as many consumers as possible to use Google News and (2) Google is choosing not to use their market share to lock out competitors in related products.

RSS victory independent of Longhorn (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 years ago | (#13373757)

A possible victory of RSS over Atom has not much to do with Microsoft's Vista/Longhorn software and which one of the two standards it uses. It is the other way around meaning that if Microsoft wants people to actually use their Vista OS support of standards is a necessary condition.

Tim Bray: RSS 2.0 and Atom 1.0 Compared (5, Informative)

otisg (92803) | about 9 years ago | (#13373770)

RSS indeed dominates the feed scene, but Atom 1.0 has just been reviewed and approved by the Atompub Working Group [ietf.org] (part of IETF, the same group that standardized HTTP, SMTP, and many other RFCs).

Thus, I wouldn't be so quick to claim RSS' victory. Tim Bray is a big supporter of Atom, and here is recent report titled RSS 2.0 and Atom 1.0 Compared [tbray.org] . Over at Simpy [simpy.com] (feel free to use demo/demo [simpy.com] account if you don't have an account yet), I am happily supporting RSS and Atom (as well as RDF).

I believe Atom also has the "push" component, and not just "pull" that RSS has. That is, I believe Atom spec contains specification of Atom as a way for making requests to web services, while RSS, I think, only lets you publish the data passively, and have clients actively pull it.
I can't find good references to this now, but maybe somebody else can find them and reply to this thread.

then it's official... (1)

-DeeT (165386) | about 9 years ago | (#13373778)

Let's call it the "Longhorn Shoehorn".

-DeeT

Big win for RSS (3, Interesting)

$RANDOMLUSER (804576) | about 9 years ago | (#13373792)

I know Sun thought that Microsoft's adoption of Java was A Big Win, too.

Re:Big win for RSS (1)

Pharcae (808474) | about 9 years ago | (#13373889)

Am I the only one that finds it funny that RSS is the industry "standard" when there are atleast 11 different revisions of it around, while there are only one variant of Atom?

Microsoft view of "innovation"? (2, Informative)

cahiha (873942) | about 9 years ago | (#13373872)

Microsoft's inclusion of RSS into the newest version of Internet Explorer and reports that RSS will be in Longhorn's coming release appears to be the final nail in the coffin of the Atom specification. [...] Now that Atom's attempt at replacing RSS has fallen flat, the syndication arena will likely see significant innovation and progress.

I suppose that's the usual Microsoft view, which means that we can only have innovation once Microsoft has moved and picked a standard that's substantially inferior to the state of the art.

I mean, the differences between RSS and Atom aren't that big (they are both XML), but within those constraints, RSS still manages to get a bunch of things wrong relative to Atom (see here [tbray.org] for a discussion).

Here's why RSS won (3, Informative)

atomm1024 (570507) | about 9 years ago | (#13373876)

When ever there's a technical niche to be filled, then given a set of possible candidates, costing equally as much (resource- and price-wise) to use, and having approximately equal functionality, the first one to become widely used will probably stay widely used, unless a future competitor has very important technical merits that can not be back-ported to the existing system.

Actually, everything I said there is basically common sense, but said in a particularly fancy way. RSS wins because it was the first to become widely used, and for the huge majority of uses (millions of random users with their feed-readers), switching to Atom would just break compatibility and offer no technical merits. Why is it any wonder that RSS won?

And by technical merits, I mean those observable to normal users. If J. Random Blogger can't see how switching to Atom makes things better, then why would he do it? Maybe the underlying architecture of Atom is much better. (I don't know; I haven't actually read an explanation of its improvements, aside from being standardized.) But if the RSS feeds of the present work just fine, which they do, then nobody's going to switch. I mean, if the Internet community made their protocol/format choices solely on technical merit, then not only would JSON-RPC [json-rpc.org] have superseded XML-RPC, but I should also think thatwe'd be using a variant of Aaron Swartz's RSS 3.0 [aaronsw.com] instead of the XML-based formats by now. It would save bandwidth, make it easier for humans to read and write feeds, and make it easier to parse and generate. (Yes, to parse it you'll have to write a a few custom regexes or something, but you won't need to include a 3MB XML-parsing library.) And we wouldn't need to worry about internationalisation issues like encoding, because RSS 3.0 feeds are UTF-8 by definition. Unfortunately, this is not about technical merits, just like capitalistic competition is never entirely about offering higher-quality goods or services. It's all about marketing, really -- marketing just enough for your product to get a foothold.

Google didn't choose the "wrong" specification. They chose a doomed one, maybe, but that doesn't make it bad.

He Won? (1)

LazloTheDog (39236) | about 9 years ago | (#13373884)

I, for one, had gotten fed up with the fanatic ramblings [stallman.org] of this RSS guy and thought most others had also. And now you tell me he has won and M$ and Google are buying into it!

JM

Ask Slashdot: Easy RSS? (2, Interesting)

kisrael (134664) | about 9 years ago | (#13373887)

I have a homebrew-ed backend weblog, http://kisrael.com/ [kisrael.com]

I know RSS has forked, and I don't use it much myself but I know others have asked for an RSS feed...is there a simple guide to outputting my content in an RSS kind of way?

Also, if I wanted to mirror my content on an LJ, would it be easier to automate the LJ postings and get an RSS feed off of that, or vice versa, or are they completely indpendent tasks?

Bias (4, Insightful)

slapout (93640) | about 9 years ago | (#13373921)

RSS will be in Longhorn

Yeah, because there's absolutely no possibilty that someone will write a program for Longhorn(Vista) that will support Atom.

Longhorn's coming release appears to be the final nail in the coffin of the Atom specification

I guess because Microsoft declares something, that's it. Everyone else should just pack up and go home. (Someone should be sure to tell those Firefox people that Firefox isn't going to be on the Vista install CD!)

I don't have a dog in this fight, but this story seems to have a bias.
 

Move along... nothing to see here. (1)

burtonator (70115) | about 9 years ago | (#13373933)

This is such a non story. There are so many reasons that MS would want Atom I can't even begin to imagine Atom not taking over the world in the next year:

http://www.feedblog.org/2005/08/long_live_atom.htm l [feedblog.org]

What's this RSS' thing? (1)

iabervon (1971) | about 9 years ago | (#13373972)

I know there's a lot of contention over RSS version numbers, where they aren't necessarily in order or unique, but an "RSS prime" just seems excessively confusing.

(Actually, this is clearly the regular possessive of RSS, which is, I suppose, plural)

Why was this posted? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 years ago | (#13373986)

Is this Slashdot's clever attempt at bypassing Adblock by disguising an advertisement as a story?

Good job editors, your standards improve on a daily basis.

Poor dying Google... (4, Funny)

Just Some Guy (3352) | about 9 years ago | (#13373993)

Google had previously acquired Blogger, a popular blogging tool that uses the Atom specification to syndicate the contents of blogs created on the Blogger platform.

...and we all know that Google's poor, beleaguered programmers will be incapable of altering the source of the application they own to transmit two. different. formats! of syndication data. That'd be like expecting them to support multiple locales or offer some kind of an aggregated news service. Why, oh why, must we constantly demand the impossible of our heroes?

Or they could just let an intern hack something up one weekend. Either way.

Atom is more than a feed format (4, Insightful)

joeykiller (119489) | about 9 years ago | (#13374018)

It's worth noting that Atom is more than RSS is, in that it is also a push/publication format. You can use Atom to post to your blog; you can use it to upload pictures and files, delete postings, etc. It's quite possible that the two formats could continue to co-exists peacefully, merely because they fill different functions.

Who cares, they both suck. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 years ago | (#13374021)

Jeeze, this is all so silly.

They are both XML formats which means:

1) they suck big time. Datetime representation confusion, encoding confusion, verbosity and wasted bandwith, needless parser complexity, poorly-defined schemas, both Atom and RSS gives you all that fun stuff.

2) One can be transformed into the other. Ignoring any schema problems that come with point #1, you can always load an RSS feed and transform it to Atom or vice-versa.

Personally I'm fine with RSS. Although there are some things that bug me, such as biCapital tag names like pubDate, and use of an ambiguous, hard-to-remember non-ISO datetime format, it'll do. Atom brings nothing to the table except vague promises of "technical superiority" (?).

This is the same kind of childish infighting that plagues all "intellectual" movements. Like BSD vs. GPL or crap like that. It doesn't matter! Average Joe doesn't give two shits! Just focus on the big picture, or while you're fighting, Microsoft will swoop in and fuck over everybody.

Who cares? (-1, Anti-Groupthink) (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 years ago | (#13374050)

Hey mods, I've done you the favor of suggesting the mod that you're going to give me, despite the fact that it's my honest opinion and I'm asking for someone to be informative.

I've used Slashdot's RSS. I even thought it was cool for about a week. But guess what? It's basically just a lame XML schema that essentially contains a standardized webpage with a bunch of hrefs. Whooptee-freaking-doo! I don't use it anymore because it's faster/easier and more informative for me to just click on my slashdot bookmark.

I'm sure it uses less bandwidth and compute power, but what's the real selling point? Seriously? Am I missing something, or is RSS really as pointless as I think it is? Maybe it's only useful for people who constantly spam reload the front page hoping that an article will appear? Well that's not me.

(-1, ModWhine) (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 years ago | (#13374087)

TIA.

What a troll (2, Insightful)

Lac (135355) | about 9 years ago | (#13374099)

The submitter seems to think that Google bought Blogger because it uses Atom for feeds. Clue: I bet its market share was more of a selling point. Additional clue: adding rss feeds to blogger is probably (a) easy and (b) completely non-controversial to anyone remotely sane.
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