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Web Accessibility?

Cliff posted more than 8 years ago | from the 508--ain't-it-great dept.

Technology 21

conJunk asks: "With Slashdot recently becoming HTML 4.01 compliant, my thoughts now drift to the subject of web accessibility. We all know that the Section 508 requirements are legally binding to those who work for or with the U.S. government, but it's still unclear whether or not U.S. companies are required to have accessible sites (unlike England, where it's very clear). How important are web accessibility and the W3C Accessibility Guidelines to you and/or your company? Where do you see this issue going in the next 10 years?"

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21 comments

Perhaps not too important ... (2, Insightful)

xmas2003 (739875) | more than 8 years ago | (#13634224)

How important are web accessibility and the W3C Accessibility Guidelines to you and/or your company?

While this wasn't posted to the front page of /., my guess is that since there are ZERO comments after 15 minutes at Ask Slashdot that it is just not that important to many folks.

Re:Perhaps not too important ... (1)

Sithgunner (529690) | more than 7 years ago | (#13638049)

Well, what do you think accessibility is for?

The 'many folks' seem to be fine in reading and typing with what their body is capable of with current web pages...

And you don't hear the minority number of people crying for help, so we do it actively. That's about it.

Well,......hrm (1)

pisdtal (133764) | more than 8 years ago | (#13634318)

I try to make sure my code is as cross browser happy as can be. Im not sure I am up to speed on accessibility. But I would think that if a site is available via LYNX that it would also be available to a text to speach browser, as far as other accessibilities im not sure I would know what to check for. However I am now intereseted in checking in to this because some of the people I am working with have various disabilities/handicaps.

Re:Well,......hrm (1)

Enrico Pulatzo (536675) | more than 8 years ago | (#13634984)

Here's my top 10 big things to be aware of when it comes to accessibility:
1.) color blindness
2.) high contrast
3.) provide a way to skip navigation (users of screen readers benefit big time here)
4.) provide summary attributes for tables, as well as caption tags in those tables, provided they're data tables and not layout tables
5.) consider link tags in your head section to provide hrefs for the home, next, and previous links
6.) use headings properly
7.) don't force open new windows
8.) if you use javascript for anything, don't use it as href="javascript:blah()" use href="#" onclick="blah(); return false;" instead
9.) if you use javascript for updating content (ala AJAX) research a way to notify the user that the page has changed (I'm not sure if anyone actually has solved this problem yet)
10.) try loading your page in lynx and reading it aloud. see how long it takes you to get tired of doing that--that's what a screen-reader user's experience is gonna be like.

Re:Well,......hrm (1)

Teresh (911815) | more than 8 years ago | (#13636343)

This is slightly off-topic, but I think that if someone is developing a Flash video for example they should consider placing the transcript online somewhere or even having captions/subtitles for those of us who are hard of hearing and deaf. No, it's not a requirement for animators do do this and it's certainly not a requirement, I just don't believe it's particularly to do the former (transcripts) and it would open up your content to a lot of people who would otherwise not be able to enjoy it.

Re:Well,......hrm (1)

Bogtha (906264) | more than 8 years ago | (#13637440)

if you use javascript for anything, don't use it as href="javascript:blah()" use href="#" onclick="blah(); return false;" instead

What? That's just as bad! People with Javascript disabled will go to the top of the page instead of to the correct URL. The correct code is to use a normal link with an onclick handler. That means actually put the URL in the href attribute.

An unconditional false return value isn't good enough either. Load up the page in Firefox. Hold down ctrl and click the link. Notice how it breaks? Now try it while holding down shift. It breaks that way too. You need to return true when the user is holding down a button and clicking a link.

You missed the most important accessibility issue though - alt attributes. Use appropriate alt attributes for all your images. If an image is purely decorative, use alt="".

if you use javascript for updating content (ala AJAX) research a way to notify the user that the page has changed (I'm not sure if anyone actually has solved this problem yet)

The new DHTML work in Firefox 1.5 addresses this, but in most cases, it's more prudent to advise users with limited vision to switch off Javascript altogether.

Re:Well,......hrm (1)

Enrico Pulatzo (536675) | more than 8 years ago | (#13641250)

You're correct about links to actual urls. What I was thinking of (and didn't differentiate) was for specific javascript functions you were wanting to run, not actual pages you could surf to.

I did miss the alt thing. Oops.

Re:Well,......hrm (1)

paradox00 (302917) | more than 8 years ago | (#13635131)

As a blind user i find that most pages are quite usable by myself and a screenreader. My personal recommendation would be to download and install a copy of jaws for windows screenreader from http://www.hj.com/ [hj.com]
you can run jaws in 40 minute mode review the page with jaws see how it sounds then make changes accordingly. However this is not always the best way to check a page because the user of the screenreader will have the best grasp of how to work with the screenreader and the document.
then again i'm always looking for work so... i would be up for checking sites for a little beer $$
--Mike

Wewt (1)

Kawahee (901497) | more than 8 years ago | (#13634508)

How about we change the Times New Roman and whatever default font *nix uses to like font-family: sans-serif;

Realistically speaking... (2, Insightful)

Enrico Pulatzo (536675) | more than 8 years ago | (#13634929)

Realistically speaking there is a ton of work the major browser players need to do in order to advance the cause of accessibility. Mozilla and IE especially are horrid when it comes to representing metadata to disabled persons.

Standards-wise there needs to be a screen-reader stylesheet, so those programs can be more beneficial to their users.

The biggest problem (as of today) probably lies in the content creation tools. Yeah, I know, the best sites should be coded by hand (which I do), but the majority of websites are maintained and created by tools that don't give a rip about accessibility (in any realistic way). Dreamweaver, Frontpage, et al really need to start stepping up in terms of accessibility.

Finally, educating those who actually do content management about the needs of the disabled is essential. Since it's a pain in the ass to make a site easily accessible by disabled persons, you need to care about the cause to put the time in to do it right.

Re:Realistically speaking... (1)

mgirouard (715165) | more than 8 years ago | (#13636216)

<< there needs to be a screen-reader stylesheet, so those programs can be more beneficial to their users

It would be nice if more than a handful of screenreaders supported the aural media type [w3.org] . Unfortunately, screen readers lean toward the screen media type (go figure) so support for this won't come for a while.

Although, I do agree -- a bit more work could be done to make the reading flow a bit more.

Re:Realistically speaking... (3, Informative)

Enrico Pulatzo (536675) | more than 8 years ago | (#13636386)

But a screen reader isn't the same thing as an aural user agent. A screen reader is an attempt to convey visible information via sound, whereas an aural user agent reads what is available. It's kinda like the difference between closed captioning and subtitles. One just represents who said what, and the other represents that plus environmental sounds that are pertinent to the reader.

Re:Realistically speaking... (2, Interesting)

Bogtha (906264) | more than 8 years ago | (#13636590)

Standards-wise there needs to be a screen-reader stylesheet, so those programs can be more beneficial to their users.

Already done. [w3.org] Right now, only Opera and Emacspeak have even the slightest clue about aural CSS, but it's been sitting there ready to be implemented for years. JAWS etc haven't a clue about W3C specifications though.

Automation (1)

oliverthered (187439) | more than 8 years ago | (#13641538)

If your using XHTML then it's fairly easy to automate some of the basic accessability requirements like verifying all that anchors have description and that links are more than just one word. It's also fairly easy to put abbreviations and acronyms in with XSL, and you can automatically generate RSS feeds based on content.

You can also do a lot with CSS too, like moving the location of menus to the a menu bar for 'normal' users and to the top for users that have screen readers and the like.

Slashdot is not w3c compliant SEE BELOW (1, Redundant)

polyp2000 (444682) | more than 8 years ago | (#13634958)

W3C QA Markup Validation Service
v0.7.0

        * Skip Navigation | Home
        * About...
        * News
        * Docs
        * Help & FAQ
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        * Link Checker

Jump To:

        * Results

Result: Failed validation, 56 errors
File: upload://Form Submission
Modified:
Server:
Size:
Content-Type:
Encoding: iso-8859-1
Doctype: HTML 4.01 Strict
This page is not Valid HTML 4.01 Strict!

Below are the results of attempting to parse this document with an SGML parser.

      1. Error Line 21 column 40: there is no attribute "LANGUAGE". /. ! At least with the old design the font wa

            You have used the element named above in your document, but the document type you are using does not define an element of that name. This error is often caused by:
                    * incorrect use of the "Strict" document type with a document that uses frames (e.g. you must use the "Frameset" document type to get the "" element),
                    * by using vendor proprietary extensions such as "" or "" (this is usually fixed by using CSS to achieve the desired effect instead).
                    * by using upper-case tags in XHTML (in XHTML attributes and elements must be all lower-case.

      3. Error Line 543 column 27: element "WBR" undefined.

                        Great design, /. ! At least with the old design the font wa

            You have used the element named above in your document, but the document type you are using does not define an element of that name. This error is often caused by:
                    * incorrect use of the "Strict" document type with a document that uses frames (e.g. you must use the "Frameset" document type to get the "" element),
                    * by using vendor proprietary extensions such as "" or "" (this is usually fixed by using CSS to achieve the desired effect instead).
                    * by using upper-case tags in XHTML (in XHTML attributes and elements must be all lower-case.

      4. Error Line 543 column 324: element "NOBR" undefined. ... default font for the benefit of /. Serif and sans-serif do

            You have used the element named above in your document, but the document type you are using does not define an element of that name. This error is often caused by:
                    * incorrect use of the "Strict" document type with a document that uses frames (e.g. you must use the "Frameset" document type to get the "" element),
                    * by using vendor proprietary extensions such as "" or "" (this is usually fixed by using CSS to achieve the desired effect instead).
                    * by using upper-case tags in XHTML (in XHTML attributes and elements must be all lower-case.

      5. Error Line 543 column 330: element "WBR" undefined. ...lt font for the benefit of /. Serif and sans-serif do not w

            You have used the element named above in your document, but the document type you are using does not define an element of that name. This error is often caused by:
                    * incorrect use of the "Strict" document type with a document that uses frames (e.g. you must use the "Frameset" document type to get the "" element),
                    * by using vendor proprietary extensions such as "" or "" (this is usually fixed by using CSS to achieve the desired effect instead).
                    * by using upper-case tags in XHTML (in XHTML attributes and elements must be all lower-case.

      6. Error Line 619 column 22: element "NOBR" undefined.

                        Prettier dupes :-)
--
_________
  (oop.ismad.com)

            You have used the element named above in your document, but the document type you are using does not define an element of that name. This error is often caused by:
                    * incorrect use of the "Strict" document type with a document that uses frames (e.g. you must use the "Frameset" document type to get the "" element),
                    * by using vendor proprietary extensions such as "" or "" (this is usually fixed by using CSS to achieve the desired effect instead).
                    * by using upper-case tags in XHTML (in XHTML attributes and elements must be all lower-case.

      7. Error Line 619 column 28: element "WBR" undefined.

                        Prettier dupes :-)
--
_________
  (oop.ismad.com)

            You have used the element named above in your document, but the document type you are using does not define an element of that name. This error is often caused by:
                    * incorrect use of the "Strict" document type with a document that uses frames (e.g. you must use the "Frameset" document type to get the "" element),
                    * by using vendor proprietary extensions such as "" or "" (this is usually fixed by using CSS to achieve the desired effect instead).
                    * by using upper-case tags in XHTML (in XHTML attributes and elements must be all lower-case.

      8. Error Line 636 column 58: element "NOBR" undefined. ...ease display years on your dates ... I can't believe this h

            You have used the element named above in your document, but the document type you are using does not define an element of that name. This error is often caused by:
                    * incorrect use of the "Strict" document type with a document that uses frames (e.g. you must use the "Frameset" document type to get the "" element),
                    * by using vendor proprietary extensions such as "" or "" (this is usually fixed by using CSS to achieve the desired effect instead).
                    * by using upper-case tags in XHTML (in XHTML attributes and elements must be all lower-case.

      9. Error Line 636 column 64: element "WBR" undefined. ...isplay years on your dates ... I can't believe this hasn't

            You have used the element named above in your document, but the document type you are using does not define an element of that name. This error is often caused by:
                    * incorrect use of the "Strict" document type with a document that uses frames (e.g. you must use the "Frameset" document type to get the "" element),
                    * by using vendor proprietary extensions such as "" or "" (this is usually fixed by using CSS to achieve the desired effect instead).
                    * by using upper-case tags in XHTML (in XHTML attributes and elements must be all lower-case.

    10. Error Line 691 column 53: element "NOBR" undefined.

                       

First off, nice job guys. It's about time. :)



            You have used the element named above in your document, but the document type you are using does not define an element of that name. This error is often caused by:
                    * incorrect use of the "Strict" document type with a document that uses frames (e.g. you must use the "Frameset" document type to get the "" element),
                    * by using vendor proprietary extensions such as "" or "" (this is usually fixed by using CSS to achieve the desired effect instead).
                    * by using upper-case tags in XHTML (in XHTML attributes and elements must be all lower-case.

    11. Error Line 691 column 59: element "WBR" undefined.

                       

First off, nice job guys. It's about time. :)



            You have used the element named above in your document, but the document type you are using does not define an element of that name. This error is often caused by:
                    * incorrect use of the "Strict" document type with a document that uses frames (e.g. you must use the "Frameset" document type to get the "" element),
                    * by using vendor proprietary extensions such as "" or "" (this is usually fixed by using CSS to achieve the desired effect instead).
                    * by using upper-case tags in XHTML (in XHTML attributes and elements must be all lower-case.

    12. Error Line 727 column 178: element "NOBR" undefined. ... "I remember when you could view /. in Lynx-- yes, that was

            You have used the element named above in your document, but the document type you are using does not define an element of that name. This error is often caused by:
                    * incorrect use of the "Strict" document type with a document that uses frames (e.g. you must use the "Frameset" document type to get the "" element),
                    * by using vendor proprietary extensions such as "" or "" (this is usually fixed by using CSS to achieve the desired effect instead).
                    * by using upper-case tags in XHTML (in XHTML attributes and elements must be all lower-case.

    13. Error Line 727 column 184: element "WBR" undefined. ...member when you could view /. in Lynx-- yes, that was a tex

            You have used the element named above in your document, but the document type you are using does not define an element of that name. This error is often caused by:
                    * incorrect use of the "Strict" document type with a document that uses frames (e.g. you must use the "Frameset" document type to get the "" element),
                    * by using vendor proprietary extensions such as "" or "" (this is usually fixed by using CSS to achieve the desired effect instead).
                    * by using upper-case tags in XHTML (in XHTML attributes and elements must be all lower-case.

    14. Error Line 795 column 28: element "NOBR" undefined.

                        the new http headers :)
 
X-FRY
X-BENDER
 
heh

            You have used the element named above in your document, but the document type you are using does not define an element of that name. This error is often caused by:
                    * incorrect use of the "Strict" document type with a document that uses frames (e.g. you must use the "Frameset" document type to get the "" element),
                    * by using vendor proprietary extensions such as "" or "" (this is usually fixed by using CSS to achieve the desired effect instead).
                    * by using upper-case tags in XHTML (in XHTML attributes and elements must be all lower-case.

    15. Error Line 795 column 34: element "WBR" undefined.

                        the new http headers :)
 
X-FRY
X-BENDER
 
heh

            You have used the element named above in your document, but the document type you are using does not define an element of that name. This error is often caused by:
                    * incorrect use of the "Strict" document type with a document that uses frames (e.g. you must use the "Frameset" document type to get the "" element),
                    * by using vendor proprietary extensions such as "" or "" (this is usually fixed by using CSS to achieve the desired effect instead).
                    * by using upper-case tags in XHTML (in XHTML attributes and elements must be all lower-case.

    16. Error Line 812 column 797: element "NOBR" undefined. ...c technologies at a similar pace :)
 
--
Never lose

            You have used the element named above in your document, but the document type you are using does not define an element of that name. This error is often caused by:
                    * incorrect use of the "Strict" document type with a document that uses frames (e.g. you must use the "Frameset" document type to get the "" element),
                    * by using vendor proprietary extensions such as "" or "" (this is usually fixed by using CSS to achieve the desired effect instead).
                    * by using upper-case tags in XHTML (in XHTML attributes and elements must be all lower-case.

    17. Error Line 812 column 803: element "WBR" undefined. ...nologies at a similar pace :)
 
--
Never lose an em

            You have used the element named above in your document, but the document type you are using does not define an element of that name. This error is often caused by:
                    * incorrect use of the "Strict" document type with a document that uses frames (e.g. you must use the "Frameset" document type to get the "" element),
                    * by using vendor proprietary extensions such as "" or "" (this is usually fixed by using CSS to achieve the desired effect instead).
                    * by using upper-case tags in XHTML (in XHTML attributes and elements must be all lower-case.

    18. Error Line 847 column 130: element "NOBR" undefined. ...ry it out on the old and the new /. and judge for yourself

            You have used the element named above in your document, but the document type you are using does not define an element of that name. This error is often caused by:
                    * incorrect use of the "Strict" document type with a document that uses frames (e.g. you must use the "Frameset" document type to get the "" element),
                    * by using vendor proprietary extensions such as "" or "" (this is usually fixed by using CSS to achieve the desired effect instead).
                    * by using upper-case tags in XHTML (in XHTML attributes and elements must be all lower-case.

    19. Error Line 847 column 136: element "WBR" undefined. ...out on the old and the new /. and judge for yourself but th

            You have used the element named above in your document, but the document type you are using does not define an element of that name. This error is often caused by:
                    * incorrect use of the "Strict" document type with a document that uses frames (e.g. you must use the "Frameset" document type to get the "" element),
                    * by using vendor proprietary extensions such as "" or "" (this is usually fixed by using CSS to achieve the desired effect instead).
                    * by using upper-case tags in XHTML (in XHTML attributes and elements must be all lower-case.

    20. Error Line 895 column 184: element "NOBR" undefined. ...dible.co.uk/user-friendly-resourc es/css/more-css-tricks.sh

            You have used the element named above in your document, but the document type you are using does not define an element of that name. This error is often caused by:
                    * incorrect use of the "Strict" document type with a document that uses frames (e.g. you must use the "Frameset" document type to get the "" element),
                    * by using vendor proprietary extensions such as "" or "" (this is usually fixed by using CSS to achieve the desired effect instead).
                    * by using upper-case tags in XHTML (in XHTML attributes and elements must be all lower-case.

    21. Error Line 895 column 190: element "WBR" undefined. ...co.uk/user-friendly-resourc es/css/more-css-tricks.shtml" element),
                    * by using vendor proprietary extensions such as "" or "" (this is usually fixed by using CSS to achieve the desired effect instead).
                    * by using upper-case tags in XHTML (in XHTML attributes and elements must be all lower-case.

    22. Error Line 1057 column 54: element "NOBR" undefined.

https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1105 [mozilla.org] 4

            You have used the element named above in your document, but the document type you are using does not define an element of that name. This error is often caused by:
                    * incorrect use of the "Strict" document type with a document that uses frames (e.g. you must use the "Frameset" document type to get the "" element),
                    * by using vendor proprietary extensions such as "" or "" (this is usually fixed by using CSS to achieve the desired effect instead).
                    * by using upper-case tags in XHTML (in XHTML attributes and elements must be all lower-case.

    23. Error Line 1057 column 60: element "WBR" undefined.

https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1105 [mozilla.org] 4

            You have used the element named above in your document, but the document type you are using does not define an element of that name. This error is often caused by:
                    * incorrect use of the "Strict" document type with a document that uses frames (e.g. you must use the "Frameset" document type to get the "" element),
                    * by using vendor proprietary extensions such as "" or "" (this is usually fixed by using CSS to achieve the desired effect instead).
                    * by using upper-case tags in XHTML (in XHTML attributes and elements must be all lower-case.

    24. Error Line 1199 column 222: element "NOBR" undefined. ...w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fsla shdot.org%2F [w3.org]

            You have used the element named above in your document, but the document type you are using does not define an element of that name. This error is often caused by:
                    * incorrect use of the "Strict" document type with a document that uses frames (e.g. you must use the "Frameset" document type to get the "" element),
                    * by using vendor proprietary extensions such as "" or "" (this is usually fixed by using CSS to achieve the desired effect instead).
                    * by using upper-case tags in XHTML (in XHTML attributes and elements must be all lower-case.

    25. Error Line 1199 column 228: element "WBR" undefined. .../check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fsla shdot.org%2F [w3.org] says

            You have used the element named above in your document, but the document type you are using does not define an element of that name. This error is often caused by:
                    * incorrect use of the "Strict" document type with a document that uses frames (e.g. you must use the "Frameset" document type to get the "" element),
                    * by using vendor proprietary extensions such as "" or "" (this is usually fixed by using CSS to achieve the desired effect instead).
                    * by using upper-case tags in XHTML (in XHTML attributes and elements must be all lower-case.

    26. Error Line 1390 column 31: element "NOBR" undefined.

                       

/X?HTML Strict/ > /X?HTML Transitional/



            You have used the element named above in your document, but the document type you are using does not define an element of that name. This error is often caused by:
                    * incorrect use of the "Strict" document type with a document that uses frames (e.g. you must use the "Frameset" document type to get the "" element),
                    * by using vendor proprietary extensions such as "" or "" (this is usually fixed by using CSS to achieve the desired effect instead).
                    * by using upper-case tags in XHTML (in XHTML attributes and elements must be all lower-case.

    27. Error Line 1390 column 37: element "WBR" undefined.

                       

/X?HTML Strict/ > /X?HTML Transitional/



            You have used the element named above in your document, but the document type you are using does not define an element of that name. This error is often caused by:
                    * incorrect use of the "Strict" document type with a document that uses frames (e.g. you must use the "Frameset" document type to get the "" element),
                    * by using vendor proprietary extensions such as "" or "" (this is usually fixed by using CSS to achieve the desired effect instead).
                    * by using upper-case tags in XHTML (in XHTML attributes and elements must be all lower-case.

    28. Error Line 1430 column 339: element "NOBR" undefined. ...file could have entries like so: .mod_neg1
{
display:

            You have used the element named above in your document, but the document type you are using does not define an element of that name. This error is often caused by:
                    * incorrect use of the "Strict" document type with a document that uses frames (e.g. you must use the "Frameset" document type to get the "" element),
                    * by using vendor proprietary extensions such as "" or "" (this is usually fixed by using CSS to achieve the desired effect instead).
                    * by using upper-case tags in XHTML (in XHTML attributes and elements must be all lower-case.

    29. Error Line 1430 column 345: element "WBR" undefined. ...ould have entries like so: .mod_neg1
{
display:none;" element),
                    * by using vendor proprietary extensions such as "" or "" (this is usually fixed by using CSS to achieve the desired effect instead).
                    * by using upper-case tags in XHTML (in XHTML attributes and elements must be all lower-case.

    30. Error Line 1430 column 394: element "NOBR" undefined. ..._neg1
{
display:none;
} .Friend
{
font-weigh

            You have used the element named above in your document, but the document type you are using does not define an element of that name. This error is often caused by:
                    * incorrect use of the "Strict" document type with a document that uses frames (e.g. you must use the "Frameset" document type to get the "" element),
                    * by using vendor proprietary extensions such as "" or "" (this is usually fixed by using CSS to achieve the desired effect instead).
                    * by using upper-case tags in XHTML (in XHTML attributes and elements must be all lower-case.

    31. Error Line 1430 column 400: element "WBR" undefined. ...br>{
display:none;
} .Friend
{
font-weight: bol

            You have used the element named above in your document, but the document type you are using does not define an element of that name. This error is often caused by:
                    * incorrect use of the "Strict" document type with a document that uses frames (e.g. you must use the "Frameset" document type to get the "" element),
                    * by using vendor proprietary extensions such as "" or "" (this is usually fixed by using CSS to achieve the desired effect instead).
                    * by using upper-case tags in XHTML (in XHTML attributes and elements must be all lower-case.

    32. Error Line 1502 column 56: element "NOBR" undefined.

                        well it looks quite nasty.
 
congrats guys! :)

            You have used the element named above in your document, but the document type you are using does not define an element of that name. This error is often caused by:
                    * incorrect use of the "Strict" document type with a document that uses frames (e.g. you must use the "Frameset" document type to get the "" element),
                    * by using vendor proprietary extensions such as "" or "" (this is usually fixed by using CSS to achieve the desired effect instead).
                    * by using upper-case tags in XHTML (in XHTML attributes and elements must be all lower-case.

    33. Error Line 1502 column 62: element "WBR" undefined. ... it looks quite nasty.
 
congrats guys! :)

            You have used the element named above in your document, but the document type you are using does not define an element of that name. This error is often caused by:
                    * incorrect use of the "Strict" document type with a document that uses frames (e.g. you must use the "Frameset" document type to get the "" element),
                    * by using vendor proprietary extensions such as "" or "" (this is usually fixed by using CSS to achieve the desired effect instead).
                    * by using upper-case tags in XHTML (in XHTML attributes and elements must be all lower-case.

    34. Error Line 1536 column 89: element "NOBR" undefined. ... text based browser use the Palm /PDA version.

            You have used the element named above in your document, but the document type you are using does not define an element of that name. This error is often caused by:
                    * incorrect use of the "Strict" document type with a document that uses frames (e.g. you must use the "Frameset" document type to get the "" element),
                    * by using vendor proprietary extensions such as "" or "" (this is usually fixed by using CSS to achieve the desired effect instead).
                    * by using upper-case tags in XHTML (in XHTML attributes and elements must be all lower-case.

    35. Error Line 1536 column 95: element "WBR" undefined. ...based browser use the Palm /PDA version.

            You have used the element named above in your document, but the document type you are using does not define an element of that name. This error is often caused by:
                    * incorrect use of the "Strict" document type with a document that uses frames (e.g. you must use the "Frameset" document type to get the "" element),
                    * by using vendor proprietary extensions such as "" or "" (this is usually fixed by using CSS to achieve the desired effect instead).
                    * by using upper-case tags in XHTML (in XHTML attributes and elements must be all lower-case.

    36. Error Line 1579 column 240: element "NOBR" undefined. ...e old website rendered by Opera. :-)
--
  " element), [slashdot.org]
                    * by using vendor proprietary extensions such as "" or "" (this is usually fixed by using CSS to achieve the desired effect instead).
                    * by using upper-case tags in XHTML (in XHTML attributes and elements must be all lower-case.

    37. Error Line 1579 column 246: element "WBR" undefined. ...website rendered by Opera. :-)
--
  " element), [floyouhave...ctuseofthe]
                    * by using vendor proprietary extensions such as "" or "" (this is usually fixed by using CSS to achieve the desired effect instead).
                    * by using upper-case tags in XHTML (in XHTML attributes and elements must be all lower-case.

    38. Error Line 1685 column 307: element "NOBR" undefined. ...that was the last time i read it :-/
 
--
If you se

            You have used the element named above in your document, but the document type you are using does not define an element of that name. This error is often caused by:
                    * incorrect use of the "Strict" document type with a document that uses frames (e.g. you must use the "Frameset" document type to get the "" element),
                    * by using vendor proprietary extensions such as "" or "" (this is usually fixed by using CSS to achieve the desired effect instead).
                    * by using upper-case tags in XHTML (in XHTML attributes and elements must be all lower-case.

    39. Error Line 1685 column 313: element "WBR" undefined. ...as the last time i read it :-/
 
--
If you set the

            You have used the element named above in your document, but the document type you are using does not define an element of that name. This error is often caused by:
                    * incorrect use of the "Strict" document type with a document that uses frames (e.g. you must use the "Frameset" document type to get the "" element),
                    * by using vendor proprietary extensions such as "" or "" (this is usually fixed by using CSS to achieve the desired effect instead).
                    * by using upper-case tags in XHTML (in XHTML attributes and elements must be all lower-case.

    40. Error Line 1702 column 411: element "NOBR" undefined. ... monitors, very happy.
 
So ... kudos to the slashcode

            You have used the element named above in your document, but the document type you are using does not define an element of that name. This error is often caused by:
                    * incorrect use of the "Strict" document type with a document that uses frames (e.g. you must use the "Frameset" document type to get the "" element),
                    * by using vendor proprietary extensions such as "" or "" (this is usually fixed by using CSS to achieve the desired effect instead).
                    * by using upper-case tags in XHTML (in XHTML attributes and elements must be all lower-case.

    41. Error Line 1702 column 417: element "WBR" undefined. ...ors, very happy.
 
So ... kudos to the slashcode team.

            You have used the element named above in your document, but the document type you are using does not define an element of that name. This error is often caused by:
                    * incorrect use of the "Strict" document type with a document that uses frames (e.g. you must use the "Frameset" document type to get the "" element),
                    * by using vendor proprietary extensions such as "" or "" (this is usually fixed by using CSS to achieve the desired effect instead).
                    * by using upper-case tags in XHTML (in XHTML attributes and elements must be all lower-case.

    42. Error Line 1721 column 205: element "NOBR" undefined. ...ech.com] Just try that with IE! :)

            You have used the element named above in your document, but the document type you are using does not define an element of that name. This error is often caused by:
                    * incorrect use of the "Strict" document type with a document that uses frames (e.g. you must use the "Frameset" document type to get the "" element),
                    * by using vendor proprietary extensions such as "" or "" (this is usually fixed by using CSS to achieve the desired effect instead).
                    * by using upper-case tags in XHTML (in XHTML attributes and elements must be all lower-case.

    43. Error Line 1721 column 211: element "WBR" undefined. ...m] Just try that with IE! :)

            You have used the element named above in your document, but the document type you are using does not define an element of that name. This error is often caused by:
                    * incorrect use of the "Strict" document type with a document that uses frames (e.g. you must use the "Frameset" document type to get the "" element),
                    * by using vendor proprietary extensions such as "" or "" (this is usually fixed by using CSS to achieve the desired effect instead).
                    * by using upper-case tags in XHTML (in XHTML attributes and elements must be all lower-case.

    44. Error Line 1738 column 109: element "NOBR" undefined. ...e case?
 
 
...for writi

            You have used the element named above in your document, but the document type you are using does not define an element of that name. This error is often caused by:
                    * incorrect use of the "Strict" document type with a document that uses frames (e.g. you must use the "Frameset" document type to get the "" element),
                    * by using vendor proprietary extensions such as "" or "" (this is usually fixed by using CSS to achieve the desired effect instead).
                    * by using upper-case tags in XHTML (in XHTML attributes and elements must be all lower-case.

    45. Error Line 1738 column 115: element "WBR" undefined. ...?
 
 
...for writing the

            You have used the element named above in your document, but the document type you are using does not define an element of that name. This error is often caused by:
                    * incorrect use of the "Strict" document type with a document that uses frames (e.g. you must use the "Frameset" document type to get the "" element),
                    * by using vendor proprietary extensions such as "" or "" (this is usually fixed by using CSS to achieve the desired effect instead).
                    * by using upper-case tags in XHTML (in XHTML attributes and elements must be all lower-case.

    46. Error Line 2193 column 25: element "NOBR" undefined. ...doesn't render /. properly anymore... not like it ever r

            You have used the element named above in your document, but the document type you are using does not define an element of that name. This error is often caused by:
                    * incorrect use of the "Strict" document type with a document that uses frames (e.g. you must use the "Frameset" document type to get the "" element),
                    * by using vendor proprietary extensions such as "" or "" (this is usually fixed by using CSS to achieve the desired effect instead).
                    * by using upper-case tags in XHTML (in XHTML attributes and elements must be all lower-case.

    47. Error Line 2193 column 31: element "WBR" undefined. ...doesn't render /. properly anymore... not like it ever r

            You have used the element named above in your document, but the document type you are using does not define an element of that name. This error is often caused by:
                    * incorrect use of the "Strict" document type with a document that uses frames (e.g. you must use the "Frameset" document type to get the "" element),
                    * by using vendor proprietary extensions such as "" or "" (this is usually fixed by using CSS to achieve the desired effect instead).
                    * by using upper-case tags in XHTML (in XHTML attributes and elements must be all lower-case.

    48. Error Line 2228 column 83: element "NOBR" undefined. ...nutes for a reply to go through. :D

            You have used the element named above in your document, but the document type you are using does not define an element of that name. This error is often caused by:
                    * incorrect use of the "Strict" document type with a document that uses frames (e.g. you must use the "Frameset" document type to get the "" element),
                    * by using vendor proprietary extensions such as "" or "" (this is usually fixed by using CSS to achieve the desired effect instead).
                    * by using upper-case tags in XHTML (in XHTML attributes and elements must be all lower-case.

    49. Error Line 2228 column 89: element "WBR" undefined. ...for a reply to go through. :D

            You have used the element named above in your document, but the document type you are using does not define an element of that name. This error is often caused by:
                    * incorrect use of the "Strict" document type with a document that uses frames (e.g. you must use the "Frameset" document type to get the "" element),
                    * by using vendor proprietary extensions such as "" or "" (this is usually fixed by using CSS to achieve the desired effect instead).
                    * by using upper-case tags in XHTML (in XHTML attributes and elements must be all lower-case.

    50. Error Line 2296 column 142: element "NOBR" undefined. ...Example 1: <img src="img.png" />
Example 2: <br

            You have used the element named above in your document, but the document type you are using does not define an element of that name. This error is often caused by:
                    * incorrect use of the "Strict" document type with a document that uses frames (e.g. you must use the "Frameset" document type to get the "" element),
                    * by using vendor proprietary extensions such as "" or "" (this is usually fixed by using CSS to achieve the desired effect instead).
                    * by using upper-case tags in XHTML (in XHTML attributes and elements must be all lower-case.

    51. Error Line 2296 column 148: element "WBR" undefined. ...e 1: <img src="img.png" />
Example 2: <br

            You have used the element named above in your document, but the document type you are using does not define an element of that name. This error is often caused by:
                    * incorrect use of the "Strict" document type with a document that uses frames (e.g. you must use the "Frameset" document type to get the "" element),
                    * by using vendor proprietary extensions such as "" or "" (this is usually fixed by using CSS to achieve the desired effect instead).
                    * by using upper-case tags in XHTML (in XHTML attributes and elements must be all lower-case.

    52. Error Line 2296 column 187: element "NOBR" undefined. .../nobr>/>
Example 2: <br />
 
 
--" element),
                    * by using vendor proprietary extensions such as "" or "" (this is usually fixed by using CSS to achieve the desired effect instead).
                    * by using upper-case tags in XHTML (in XHTML attributes and elements must be all lower-case.

    53. Error Line 2296 column 193: element "WBR" undefined. .../>
Example 2: <br />
 
 
--
Is a

            You have used the element named above in your document, but the document type you are using does not define an element of that name. This error is often caused by:
                    * incorrect use of the "Strict" document type with a document that uses frames (e.g. you must use the "Frameset" document type to get the "" element),
                    * by using vendor proprietary extensions such as "" or "" (this is usually fixed by using CSS to achieve the desired effect instead).
                    * by using upper-case tags in XHTML (in XHTML attributes and elements must be all lower-case.

    54. Error Line 2505 column 78: there is no attribute "BORDER". ...gif?l,798" width="1" height="1" border="0" alt="">

            You have used the attribute named above in your document, but the document type you are using does not support that attribute for this element. This error is often caused by incorrect use of the "Strict" document type with a document that uses frames (e.g. you must use the "Transitional" document type to get the "target" attribute), or by using vendor proprietary extensions such as "marginheight" (this is usually fixed by using CSS to achieve the desired effect instead).

            This error may also result if the element itself is not supported in the document type you are using, as an undefined element will have no supported attributes; in this case, see the element-undefined error message for further information.

            How to fix: check the spelling and case of the element and attribute, (Remember XHTML is all lower-case) and/or check that they are both allowed in the chosen document type, and/or use CSS instead of this attribute.

    55. Error Line 2505 column 88: document type does not allow element "IMG" here; missing one of "P", "H1", "H2", "H3", "H4", "H5", "H6", "DIV", "ADDRESS" start-tag. ...idth="1" height="1" border="0" alt="">

            The mentioned element is not allowed to appear in the context in which you've placed it; the other mentioned elements are the only ones that are both allowed there and can contain the element mentioned. This might mean that you need a containing element, or possibly that you've forgotten to close a previous element.

            One possible cause for this message is that you have attempted to put a block-level element (such as "

" or "") inside an inline element (such as "", "", or "").

    56. Error Line 2506 column 10: end tag for "NOSCRIPT" which is not finished.

            Most likely, You nested tags and closed them in the wrong order. For example

...

is not acceptable, as must be closed before

. Acceptable nesting is:

...



            Another possibility is that you used an element which requires a child element that you did not include. Hence the parent element is "not finished", not complete. For instance, generally requires a , lists (ul, ol, dl) require list items (li, or dt, dd), and so on.

Valid XHTML 1.0! The W3C Validator Team

Re:Slashdot is not w3c compliant SEE BELOW (2, Informative)

Kawahee (901497) | more than 8 years ago | (#13635086)

Rather than spam us with this, please read the post the /. team made regarding this. They said they weren't fully W3C compliant yet, but they would be fixing it in the next couple of days. Mkay? Mkay.

Not at all (1)

wom (240411) | more than 8 years ago | (#13635175)

I routinely ignore rare browsers, non-english speakers etc. How different is it to ignore rare browser-human
combinations. The market is too small and too specialized. I'm in business, what is the return on investment?

I know, flamebait, but fairly honest.

Re:Not at all (1)

Bogtha (906264) | more than 8 years ago | (#13636617)

I routinely ignore rare browsers, non-english speakers etc.

I'm in business, what is the return on investment?

Well, depending on your location, not getting sued is a big return on investment. SOCOG got fined A$20,000 for making an inaccessible website.

You have to consider cost, too. How much would it cost to specify that you require an accessible website when you are commissioning it? How much would it cost to retrofit an inaccessible website in a hurry after somebody threatens a lawsuit? The latter tends to be the more expensive of the two.

There's the matter of clientele, too. So you "routinely ignore rare browsers"? Who do you think is likely to have more disposable income - the person using Internet Explorer on a desktop computer, or the person using a browser you haven't heard of on a palmtop?

You are making the assumption that the number and size of sales for a particular market segment correlates with the number of people in that market segment. In reality, some niches will have disproportionately high sales.

The other problem is that it is a self-fulfilling prophecy. If you make a website that is not accessible to the blind, for example, don't be surprised if you are "vindicated" by finding out that you don't have any blind users. That doesn't mean the blind users aren't out there, it means they've gone to a competitor instead, because they can't use your site. Perhaps if you didn't "routinely ignore rare browsers", you'd see a lot more of them.

Re:Not at all (1)

mikek3332002 (912228) | more than 8 years ago | (#13643416)

Its not that difficult to make a website easy to read.

Step 1: Allow text to be resized
Step 2: Use an easy to read colour scheme
Step 3: Don't use stuff like flash instead use XHTML or HTML is you want people to read it
...

My take (1)

SocialEngineer (673690) | more than 8 years ago | (#13635235)

As a professional web developer, my focus is well designed, standards compliant, highly accessable websites. I'm still working pretty hard on developing sites good for those using TTS readers (ex: putting common text content at the bottom of the code), but other than that, I stick with HTML 4.01 Strict (minus one of my sites, which uses Textpattern.. I'm switching to a different CMS over Xmas) with CSS.

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