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Review: Dragonshard

Zonk posted about 9 years ago | from the ltb-bracers-of-armor-+1-pst dept.

Real Time Strategy (Games) 171

The Dungeons and Dragons license has graced some truly fine videogames. Planescape: Torment and the Baldur's Gate sagas are some of the finest gaming experiences RPG fans can cite. Dragonshard is the first melding of Dungeons and Dragons with the Real-Time Strategy genre, combining traditional RTS action with RPG elements to create a unique whole. While the game doesn't redefine my understanding of the RTS genere, it's very different from your normal title and is well worth checking out. Read on for my impressions of Liquid Entertainment's Dragonshard.

  • Title: Dragonshard
  • Developer: Liquid Entertainment
  • Publisher: Atari
  • System: PC
  • Reviewer: Zonk
  • Score: 8/10
Wizards of the Coast's newest campaign setting, Eberron, is the backdrop to Dragonshard. Though this is the first Eberron videogame, the pulp fantasy environment is set to play home to several types of games for a good reason. High adventure and intrigue are core concepts of the setting, and techno-magical items allow for a vaguely more modern feel while maintaining the fantasy overtones. The elements that distinguish Eberron from your standard D&D setting are woven deep into the game's structure. The construct warriors known as the Warforged, magical crystals called dragonshards, and craft-mages known as Artificers all have gameplay repercussions. Despite this, the flavour of the Eberron setting isn't captured as well as one would hope. The game is set on the jungle continent of Xen'drik, and as a result some of the most interesting Eberron-specific elements are far to the north on another continent. The wilderness-based dungeoncrawling paints the world with a generic fantasy brush that detracts from the source material substantially. While the gameworld is obviously Eberron, I would have enjoyed the inclusion of some of the most interesting setting elements (such as the Dragonmarked houses or the intricate political situation in the wake of the Last War) into the game. My nitpicking aside, it's definitely D&D. Riffling through the Monster Manual at random will give you a good look at the critters you'll face. All the favorites are there, from Beholders to Ilithids, and they look great.

In addition to the setting, Liquid also broke new ground with gameplay elements. While most RTS titles pit you against other factions in titanic battles, Dragonshard offers more than one way to play the game. On the surface of Xen'drik you build a fortress settlement and train up characters referred to as captains. These captains fill different character templates from the Eberron setting (artificers, rogues, ranged warriors, warforged soldiers, etc). Powerful captains attract soldiers which bolster your numbers while campaigning aboveground. There are several unique hero characters you can choose from as well, and these lead your captains in battle against opposing forces. The problem is that the only resource you can gather aboveground are the semi-ubiquitous dragonshards. Like every good adventuring party, you need gold to fund your conquests. In the grand tradition of D&D there is just as much gameplay to be had belowground as above. In the dungeon realm of Khyber, which runs beneath every level's map, monstrous creatures with hordes of loot await your blade's ministrations. By taking your captains belowground you leave the common soldiery behind, reducing the game to a much more traditional dungeoncrawling experience. Defeating these creatures nets you experience, which you can apply to captain types in order to level them up. In a nice circular fashion, leveled captains gain more followers. These soldiers don't count against the maximum number of followers you can control, and above ground your captains lead huge armies against your opponents. As you conquer more of the map above, you'll find new entrances to the Underdark and new opportunities for loot.

The result is a fun combination of traditional Warcraft-like combat and something more akin to Neverwinter Nights. The focus of game's storyline is very RPG, as well. A group of good-aligned warriors united in their worship of the Holy Flame seek three mystic seals which will allow them access to a giant hunk of Dragonshard. The powerful relic has affected the local lizardfolk population, changing them in substantial ways and providing the primary adversary for the Holy Flame's army. Aside from the goals you'll attempt to fulfill in acquiring the seals, quests you receive from characters scattered throughout the map give you opportunities to gain additional power and treasure. Items can affect your Hero's stats, and some quests can even open up new captain types in your base. The experience taken as a whole is very different than your standard cookie-cutter RTS, and the variety of gameplay ensures that if you get bored with one aspect of the game you can indulge in another activity to switch things up.

Base building in Dragonshard is fairly unique as well. Bases are laid out into blocks of four squares, with a central citadel and a stout wall surrounding the buildings. Unit-building structures are built on each square. Once their training facility is constructed, captains can be trained and (if you have enough experience) upgraded to level 2. By building another of the same structure type adjacent to the original, you can train units more quickly and upgrade the captain type further. Beyond simply upgrading the captains, there are structures you can build in the square arrangement that will improve the statistics of adjacent unit structures. Placing a mana increase obelisk in an arrangement with priest and sorcerer producing buildings will allow your spellcasters to be more effective in combat. It takes some getting used to, but once you get the hang of putting together a base it's easy to throw one together fairly quickly. After you've ventured into the Underdark enough times to gain some sizeable wealth you'll have a base that resembles a small city, with monuments and buildings nicely blending together.

The visual look of the game is distinct, and quite attractive. Units are highly detailed, with lots of nice touches given to the captains and heroes you'll be leading. One hero has a cross hanging from their armor that swings as she runs, while the angelic Archons wield inner-lit lightning bolts. The lizardfolk are especially intricately designed, with spines and scale flaps all over the place. The world is equally beautifully rendered, with environmental effects aplenty and a deformable terrain adding to the experience of combat in a substantial way. The most dramatic way to see the terrain deformation is the infrequent impacts of dragonshards from above. The first time it happens, it's quite startling to see. The explosions of crystalline shards are heavy enough to knock your troops off of their feet if they hit nearby, and leave collectible shards nestled in impact craters in their wake. The downside to all this pretty is a drag on your rig. While I don't have a cutting edge setup, I can play Half-Life 2 with most of the shinies turned up. Just the same, a screen full of warring armies caused me slowdowns on a couple of occasions. Despite the slowdowns, Dragonshard is a dramatic game. The auditory environment is dramatic as well, with angry cries and clashing blades adding emphasis to the visual devastation. Heroes and captains have unique vocalizations and catch phrases. As with every RTS they get old after the hundredth time you've heard them, but until you get fed up and turn them off you'll enjoy their gusto. There are precious few cinematics in the game, with most plot elements being explored via cutscenes acted out within the engine. While this is a good way to show off the game's graphical power, it can make for some odd moments. Up-close, the running animations of the heroes looks decidedly awkward. Additionally, there are no animations for characters to turn in place. When a hero turns to address one of his fellows, he rotates in place like a cardboard cutout. It's distracting, but the cut-scenes move the plot forward effectively. While some of them skirt the line of hokey gaming patter, for the most part they do a good job of keeping you informed about your goals in the single-player campaign.

The single-player mission is enjoyable, but re-playability is fairly low due to brevity. Multiplayer is where the game gets an extended life. Whatever reservations I have about the single-player are easily ignored when it comes to online play. The aboveground/Underdark gameplay makes for an even more interesting experience when other adventuring parties are thrown into the mix. In addition to probing the dungeons for treasure and experience, you have to fend off the opposing forces as well. This can be a tricky prospect if you've just put your party through a difficult boss battle. Beyond the basic gameplay, there are additional objectives that you can attempt to gain dominance. A capture-the-flag-like mode has you collecting artifacts before your opponent does, while another gametype requires you to take and hold places of power for a given span of time. Good gameplay is nothing without opponents, and I was very happy to have little problem finding folks to play against via the browser. The only catch is that you have to download a patch straight off in order to get online. A small price to play for the most entertaining way to play the game.

I didn't like this game at first. My knee-jerk reaction to this version of Eberron set me back, and the gameplay didn't jump out at me the way many other games have in the past. It's been a slow year for Real-Time Strategy, but after some time working with Dragonshard it began to grow on me. The base-building has a very different feel to it than your standard model, and the Underdark dungeoncrawling component is the perfect contrast to combat between massive armies. There are still elements that weaken the end result. The single-player game is very short, and confusingly while there are three races in the game there are only two campaigns. The game has occasional slowdowns, and the random Underdark spawn tables can make for overly interesting forays in the Multiplayer game. Overall, though, Dragonshard is well worth taking in if you're a fan of strategy games or the Dungeons and Dragons brand. Eberron is a fascinating setting, and I'm looking forward to seeing it realized more fully in future titles.

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F1ST P05T (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 years ago | (#13724130)

yes, I win it.

IN SOVIET RUSSIA (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 years ago | (#13724135)

Games review Zonk!

IN SOVIET RUSSIA (1)

CmdrTaco (troll) (578383) | about 9 years ago | (#13724297)

GIGANTIC COCKS SUCK ZONK!

It's not that confusing, Zonk! (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 years ago | (#13724140)

and confusingly while there are three races in the game there are only two campaigns.

There are plenty of real-world examples. For example, consider the three races of Sunni, Shiite, and God-Fearing Christian, which are only engaged in two campaigns (Iraq and Afghanistan.)

MOD PARENT FUNNY NOT TROLL (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 years ago | (#13724427)

Although it's biased it still carries some insight, so it gets funny.

Mod Parent Up! (1)

0kComputer (872064) | about 9 years ago | (#13724646)

I got a laugh out of it

My problem with those game: (5, Interesting)

imsabbel (611519) | about 9 years ago | (#13724156)

Every unit has >1 special attacks that can be used, some quite often (i.e. ever 10 seconds or something), but there is no way to quickly select those specials of a group of mixed chars.
So the barbarians can activat their bloodrush, or the archers summon rats/bats, or the healers cast "hold" spells, but if you have a group of all ranged characters (like archers+healers), you cannot select those powers. You got to deselect the group and select a "racially clean" group. (instead of doing the obvious and just accept the the command only for appropiate units).

That way, to get the most out of the game, it becomes a "who clicks faster" competition, and frankly, if i want to measure up in that department, i play winter games on a c64 emulator...

Re:My problem with those game: (2, Interesting)

j-joshers (880017) | about 9 years ago | (#13724167)

I guess you have never heard of control groups...

Re:My problem with those game: (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 years ago | (#13724200)

I guess you've never heard of micro management...

Re:My problem with those game: (1)

imsabbel (611519) | about 9 years ago | (#13724533)

Well, make a control group for everty of the 12 or something different unit types?
Maybe you want archers at 2 different places or something?
And even if you give up any kind of tactics for unittype quickselection, the battle will just be group1->activate power->group2->acticate power... ect ect.

I rather spend my clicks per second on actually doing something.
its like Warcraft3, only every unit is a mini hero. (with 2 or 3 different powers, mana that recharges, ect). There were about 15 times the first 2 missions i wished i could pause the damn thing, but then i just lost interest. It tries suggest a deepness in the gameplay (with its D&D roots) that totally gets lost in the actual battles

Re:It's similar to Warcraft 3 (4, Informative)

meowsqueak (599208) | about 9 years ago | (#13724308)

You just hit tab when you have a diverse group selected, and the focus moves between each type of unit. You had to do the same thing in Warcraft 3 and it's not too bad.

Re:My problem with those game: (3, Informative)

Olix (812847) | about 9 years ago | (#13724323)

If you select a large group of units, tab will take you through the various unit types. You can also click once on their icon at the bottom of the screen to select that particular type of units. Double click an icon will select just that unit.

It really has a very simple interface, reminds me of Warcraft. Perhaps you should play the tutorial in future, before leveling complaints at the game?

Is it rated "MV18+" (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 years ago | (#13724159)

For male virgins over 18?

Add-On (5, Informative)

AviLazar (741826) | about 9 years ago | (#13724162)

The game is set on the jungle continent of Xen'drik, and as a result some of the most interesting Eberron-specific elements are far to the north on another continent

Yes and this will be the add-on "City of Daggers - Sharn"

Definately worth while (5, Interesting)

Kranfer (620510) | about 9 years ago | (#13724172)

RTS along with D&D? Something definately worth while. I have always been rather surprised that Wizards never came up with a MMORPG that is D&D related. Lets hope they do... dragonlance related too. I would love to run around Krynn beating up the baddies! I shall settle for gemstone IV click here for link [play.net] for now. text Muds PWN too ya know :)

Re:Definately worth while (1)

niall111 (449279) | about 9 years ago | (#13724258)

there is a D&D mmorpg game in the works right now, in alpha/beta at the moment i believe.

Re:Definately worth while (1, Interesting)

Jaysyn (203771) | about 9 years ago | (#13724386)

A D&D MMORPG game with no PvP aspect. Welcome to suckville.

Jaysyn

D&D Online is already in the works... (4, Informative)

Tuirn (717203) | about 9 years ago | (#13724280)

Turbine is already producing it: http://www.ddo.com/ [ddo.com]

ok, a couple questions. (-1, Troll)

dAzED1 (33635) | about 9 years ago | (#13724190)

I think rpgs are fun. Hell, I'm so much of a dork I've actually been an officer in the Camarilla [slashdot.org] (a LARP group) for years.

That being said, my first question: what's an RTS?

Second question: after reading the entire review, taking in every detail, I'm left wondering...have you ever actually seen a girl? Ever?

Re:ok, a couple questions. (3, Informative)

TossCobble (838424) | about 9 years ago | (#13724212)

RTS stands for real-time strategy. As opposed to, say, turn-based strategy.

Re:ok, a couple questions. (5, Funny)

XenoRyet (824514) | about 9 years ago | (#13724223)

Second question: after reading the entire review, taking in every detail, I'm left wondering...have you ever actually seen a girl? Ever?

From a LARPer?

Hi pot, I'm kettle, your black.

Re:ok, a couple questions. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 years ago | (#13724294)

Watch the stereotypes, both of you.

The Vampire LARPs I've been involved in were about a 50-50 mix of men and women. Most of the women were fairly hot as well.

Re:ok, a couple questions. (1)

XenoRyet (824514) | about 9 years ago | (#13724641)

I actualy have a decently high oppinion LARPers and RTS geeks. Niether group should throw that kind of stone at the other though, and it's funny when they do.

Re:ok, a couple questions. (1)

vranash (594439) | about 9 years ago | (#13724342)

Dude, having seen a coupla LARP get-togethers in my town, dayyyyuuuummm, there are some hot girls doing that shit :P

Mind you that isn't enough to get me playing VtM, LARP or no :)

Re:ok, a couple questions. (0, Troll)

mister_llah (891540) | about 9 years ago | (#13724480)

Yeah, but the ones who are decent looking are usually goths... the ones who aren't goth, are usually repugnant. The ones who are goth are repugnant for other reasons.

(Teen angst is a big turn off)
(Especially if they are no longer teens)

Re:ok, a couple questions. (4, Funny)

grommit (97148) | about 9 years ago | (#13724242)

Oh yeah, I'm sure you get all the chicks yelling out, "LIGHTNING BOLT! LIGHTNING BOLT! LIGHTNING BOLT! LIGHTNING BOLT!" while throwing pebbles at people.

Re:ok, a couple questions. (1)

dAzED1 (33635) | about 9 years ago | (#13724363)

VtM doesn't do that. We just dor rock-paper-scissors ;)

Re:ok, a couple questions. (1)

grommit (97148) | about 9 years ago | (#13724426)

That's good. I used to RP with some vampires in Ultima Online and the crap they came up with was just completely absurd. "Oh, I'm a 1/3 vampire that's pregnant with an elvan's son!!!111oneoneone" I mean.. wtf...

I'm sure there's some LARPs that can be taken seriously but when there's some groups that post videos of their LARP fights on the web, it just makes me embarassed to be a human.

damn (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 years ago | (#13724605)

"Oh, I'm a 1/3 vampire that's pregnant with an elvan's son!!!111oneoneone" I mean.. wtf...

you mean people actually act like this [elfonlyinn.net] ? (half vampire / half elf / half unicorn / etc)

Re:ok, a couple questions. (2, Interesting)

AvitarX (172628) | about 9 years ago | (#13724300)

Ther are RPG games, LARPS, and Table Top Games

No gamer in existance and play all three (must pick two). You obviously chose LARP and Table Top, if you were even slightly interested in computer games over the last decade (and had internet access) you would know that RTS was Real Time Stradegy.

Re:ok, a couple questions. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 years ago | (#13724751)

It sounds like by "RPG games" you mean "computer-based RPGs", but that's not what "Role-Playing Game games" actually means. Most people consider LARP games and table-top RPGs to be RPGs.

Re:ok, a couple questions. (1)

AvitarX (172628) | about 9 years ago | (#13724786)

That is supposed to say

"There are Computer Games, LARPs, and Table Top Games" at the start.

and summerize by saying the knowledge of what RTS means in a gaming context is at least as common as what LARP means in the same context.

Proof of inflated reviews (5, Interesting)

3.09 a hour (812839) | about 9 years ago | (#13724192)

Honestly, i was very disapointed in this game. Its yet another C&C clone that just cant seem to get anything right. Lord of the Rings had the EXACT same building mechanism 2 years ago, with better graphics. Unless you have a real hard on for ebberon id steer far clear of this game.

Re:Proof of inflated reviews (2, Informative)

Olix (812847) | about 9 years ago | (#13724353)

C&C clone?? I wouldn't call it a blindly brilliant game, sure, but it is in no way similar to C&C. If anything, its feel reminds me of something like Age of Wonders or HoMM gone real-time. you can hardly call any RTS a C&C clone, and this particular game plays very differently to any other stuff in the genre.

Re:Proof of inflated reviews (1)

pyrrhonist (701154) | about 9 years ago | (#13724382)

Unless you have a real hard on for ebberon id steer far clear of this game.

No, no, no, in Dragonshard, it's only the Dragons that can be hard.

Re:Proof of inflated reviews (5, Insightful)

TerrapinOrange (805326) | about 9 years ago | (#13724481)

Inflated reviews? Metacritic.com lists the average rating by the gaming media for this title as 82/100, which is pretty damn close to Zonk's 8/10. If this score is inflated, so are pretty much everyone else's.

Re:Proof of inflated reviews (0)

charlesbakerharris (623282) | about 9 years ago | (#13724726)

Proof of inflated reviews

Yes, your opinion certainly does constitute "proof". Q.E.Freaking.D.

If nothing else (4, Interesting)

totallygeek (263191) | about 9 years ago | (#13724193)

I am not that much into RPGs (I suck at video games and don't have the patience to learn how to do things like check inventory), but I looked at the article because I used to enjoy playing Dungeons and Dragons. I just have to say that this has been the best Slashdot article I have ever read. It is very well laid-out, is informative, and has supporting images that are appropriate.

Re:If nothing else (0, Troll)

grub (11606) | about 9 years ago | (#13724219)


I just have to say that this has been the best Slashdot article I have ever read. It is very well laid-out, is informative, and has supporting images that are appropriate.

If you and Zonk came to Canada you could get legally married!

I want in on the circle jerk (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 years ago | (#13724221)

Yeah, this article was the bestest I've ever read, too. They say a picture is worth a thousand words and there were like at least 3 pictures, so that means that reading the article was actually like reading 3000 words.

But, because they were pictures, it didn't take me so long to read the article.

But, the article was a little long.

But that doesn't mean it wasn't the bestest article I've ever read!!!

Re:If nothing else (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 years ago | (#13724224)

Don't encourage him. He'll just dupe it later.

Re:If nothing else (2, Informative)

Jaysyn (203771) | about 9 years ago | (#13724421)

The companies they advertise for pay extra for that.

Jaysyn

You can almost (5, Funny)

kensai (139597) | about 9 years ago | (#13724214)

see the "Oh Shit" expression on his face on that last picture.

Re:You can almost (1)

jandrese (485) | about 9 years ago | (#13724925)

It's just like the D&D manuals, only in the manual the guy on the horse would be wearing leather armor. I think it's interesting how in almost every case, the heros in the picture are about to die. Dunno what that says about the artists, but it can't be good.

Dawn of War: Winter Assault (5, Informative)

sesshomaru (173381) | about 9 years ago | (#13724216)

It's been a slow year for Real-Time Strategy, but after some time working with Dragonshard it began to grow on me.
Well, I don't know about that, as the RTS I've been looking forward to for a long time, the expansion to Dawn of War, Dawn of War: Winter Assault just came out. It's gotten generally good reviews, and I think the addition of the Imperial Guard and a more complex single player game makes it a worthwhile purchase.

Demo Available here: New Warhammer 40,000 Dawn of War Winter Assault demo [dawnofwargame.com]

I may pick up Dragonshard eventually too... but I imagine that with the little time I have available for Game Playing I'll have my hands full with Winter Assault.

Also: Earth 2160 (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 years ago | (#13724632)

And we heard that a semi-sequel to Total Annihiliation is coming out, called Supreme Commander [ign.com] . Just reading a preview gave me as much enjoyment as many actual games manage.
Battalion Wars on the GC too.

Re:Also: Earth 2160 (1)

2008 (900939) | about 9 years ago | (#13724702)

And we heard that a semi-sequel to Total Annihiliation is coming out, called Supreme Commander [ign.com] . Just reading a preview gave me as much enjoyment as many actual games manage.
Battalion Wars on the GC too.


Empire Earth 2 (demo [empireearth2.com] ). Allows true co-op play, with two people controlling the same side. Lots of fun, and I'd never seen that in an RTS before (not that I play that many of them).

Buy it here! (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 years ago | (#13724228)

You can buy the game here: Dragonshard [amazon.com] . And if you use the "secret" A9.com discount [amazon.com] , you can save an extra 1.57%!

Three mystic seals? (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 years ago | (#13724243)

> A group of good-aligned warriors united in their worship of the Holy
> Flame seek three mystic seals

Warrior 1: "Ok, here, I've found the seals"
Warrior 2: "Ummm, are those... circus seals?"
Warrior 3: "How do they balance those beach balls on the noses?"
Warrior 1: "It's... mystical"

This was done before (2, Funny)

Mad Ogre (564694) | about 9 years ago | (#13724262)

SpellForce 2 does this... RPG RTS combo. It is a very special kind of suckage... games rarely suck that bad. In fact, I don't think any game sucks that bad. It's like a new discovery voyage of suckage. No, I didn't like it. So for these guys to say that's what they are doing... I have some serious doubts.

Re:This was done before (2, Informative)

Idealius (688975) | about 9 years ago | (#13724385)

I actually liked spellforce.

Sure it was repetitive, but the RPG elements made the grind easier.

What I DIDN'T like is when I got close to the end of the game and a bug in spellforce made my savegame unplayable. :(

Re:This was done before (1)

Olix (812847) | about 9 years ago | (#13724395)

Everyone seems to be making comparisons between this game and various other games, but I think it is very unique. It certainly doesn't play like spellforce, lets say.

The actual PRG-ness in the game is very underplayed - sure, your characters level up, but it is a global leveling for all Captains of a certain type. Also there is no real inventory to speak of. The Underground section doesn't play like an RPG, but more like a smaller scale RTS with more unit micromangement required.

Re:This was done before (1)

Smauler (915644) | about 9 years ago | (#13724716)

I think it is very unique.

It's a bit impossible to be very unique

Yes, but.. (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 years ago | (#13724270)

Does it run on GNU/Linux?

What I would like to see... (3, Insightful)

eaddict (148006) | about 9 years ago | (#13724286)

is an engine that can help a DM design thier own world for others to play in. Heck that is what D&D is all about. D&D gave you the books and you developed the world. Sure you could buy a world that the D&D creators fleshed out but I always enjoyed creating my own. If I could just get an AI engine for NPCs and monsters, graphics, and whatever building blocks I need to create my own world. THAT would be cool. Then I could host my world on a dedicated PC off of my high speed internet and control the number of users that come in....

Re:What I would like to see... (1)

Jaysyn (203771) | about 9 years ago | (#13724325)

Have you never heard of Neverwinter Nights? Unlimited Adventures? Hell even Icewind Dale II is almost completely modible now.

Jaysyn

Re:What I would like to see... (1)

$nickname_212 (805232) | about 9 years ago | (#13724352)

I think that was the point of Neverwinter Nights. I didn't buy any of the expansions, so I am not sure if this paradigm morphed.

Re:What I would like to see... (5, Informative)

Anthony Boyd (242971) | about 9 years ago | (#13724354)

If I could just get an AI engine for NPCs and monsters, graphics, and whatever building blocks I need to create my own world. THAT would be cool.

NWN [bioware.com] and free server software [bioware.com]

Neverwinter Nights (5, Informative)

DG (989) | about 9 years ago | (#13724366)

Then you want Neverwinter Nights (and the subsequent exapansion packs)

It comes with a phenominal world-building engine and some of the community-produced content for it is breathtaking. There's some very talented world-builders and storytellers out there.

And the game can be played multiplayer with a DM.

Oh - and it runs on Linux!

DG

You want Neverwinter Nights (1)

Tipa (881911) | about 9 years ago | (#13724374)

NWN has everything you want.

It's not the first.... (1)

Jaysyn (203771) | about 9 years ago | (#13724295)

.... Way back in the day there was an equally D&D horrible RTS called Blood & magic.

D&D + Warcraft = Suck

Jaysyn

What Is In the Second Picture? (1)

Evil W1zard (832703) | about 9 years ago | (#13724305)

Ok maybe I haven't played D&D in a long time, but is that a spaceship flying around in the second picture in the article??? They aren't allowed to put spaceships in D&D based games because well because I said so and thats that! Seriously WTF is that thing with the blue ring on it that looks like its flying?

Re:What Is In the Second Picture? (1)

east coast (590680) | about 9 years ago | (#13724327)

Seriously WTF is that thing with the blue ring on it that looks like its flying?

While I am not familure with this aspect of D&D there use to be a set of rules called "spelljammer" that had space flight.

Re:What Is In the Second Picture? (1, Redundant)

Zonk (12082) | about 9 years ago | (#13724485)

The craft in the background is an Airship. There's some techno-magical elements in Eberron, where spellcasters forge powerful beings (usually elementals) into control devices for trains, ships, and airships.

Here is a better illustration of the craft:
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/ebw_gallery/8288 1.jpg [wizards.com]

In the game, the Holy Flame army uses the flying craft to get to Xen'drik, and move about the continent.

Re:What Is In the Second Picture? (2, Informative)

Jbcarpen (883850) | about 9 years ago | (#13724391)

The flying thing is an elemental galleon, built by house Khorvare, these ships are powered by a bound elemental of at least huge size. those galleons capable of flight use either an air elemental or a fire elemental. from the looks of the picture, I would say that that one is powered by an elder air elemental, top speed is approximately 20 mph. An elemental galleon can only be piloted by a dragonmarked heir of house Khorvare who posesses the mark of storm, least or higher.

                      Hope you find this informative as I have just labeled myself a total geek, not having had to look any of this up(if you want to do so yourself, it can be found in the eberron campaign setting book)

Re:What Is In the Second Picture? (1)

Diomedes01 (173241) | about 9 years ago | (#13724412)

They aren't allowed to put spaceships in D&D based games because well because I said so and thats that!
Actually, there was an old module (City of the Gods maybe?) I think it was part of the Dave Arneson's Blackmoor campaign... it had high technology disguised as "ancient artifacts".

Re:What Is In the Second Picture? (2, Informative)

SkipRosebaugh (50138) | about 9 years ago | (#13724473)

It's an airship, powered by an air elemental. They're pretty rare in Eberron, and are difficult to fly, and only go 20mph anyway, so don't expect it to fundamentally change the balance of the game.

Re:What Is In the Second Picture? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 years ago | (#13724495)


The Eberron setting is quite interesting and has a slightly different take on the D&D world than most. Although it definitely is not a magic instead of technology idea (honestly - it doesn't feel like that, it's still very magical), it does explore what might be done with magic in a more civilised world.

What you are seeing is an elemental ship. The ring of fire circling it is the bound fire-elemental. Ships like this are rare but do exist and are carefully integrated into the Eberron setting. In Eberron, you'll also find Mage Bred animals, a race of golem-like creatures (the Warforged) and institutionalised banking. Nevertheless, the setting manages to avoid the magic as technology feel which I personally hate. It's also nicely geared towards low-level play, (sky-ship not withstanding). If you like D&D, it's definitely worth a look.

Where's the role playing? (3, Insightful)

argent (18001) | about 9 years ago | (#13724314)

Planescape: Torment and the Baldur's Gate sagas are some of the finest gaming experiences RPG fans can cite.

I haven't played all that many of these games, because I became disenchanted with the whole genre long ago, but I have to ask... do any of these games actually provide any opportunities for role playing? That is, do you as a player have any control over your character's actions beyond those of a "choose your own adventure" book? Oh, sure, you can choose to go on or not go on side-quests, but beyond that the only results of your actions are whether you make it through to the ending, or at the most get one of a couple of different variations to the end.

For a canned game, where the only person involved is yourself, this kind of interactive fiction approach is probably the best you can manage... but even the "massively multiplayer" games seem to give you awfully limited opportunities for developing your own character with his or her own motivations and goals. And, after all, that's what distinguishes the role-playing campaign from the canned dungeon crawl whete the DM may as well BE a computer...

Try Out Fable The Lost Chapters (0)

Evil W1zard (832703) | about 9 years ago | (#13724358)

Its a single player RPG that they crossed over from XBox that basically starts you off as a little boy in a town. Your family gets killed and you go into Hero training. What you do in game effects not only how you look (grow horns for doing bad stuff, get muscular from fighting, get tattoos...) but it also effects how the environment around you acts. For example I played and I went around killing and stealing from innocent villagers. Next thing you know people are groveling at my feet when I walk by them + I grew a cool set of devil horns and had bugs flying around my head lol.

Or Morowind.. (1)

chaleur (896943) | about 9 years ago | (#13724599)

...which, like its predecessor, was completely open ended. I had a great playing experience, and never followed the main story at all. Though like another poster said, you did give up early if you never played Daggerfall. Though I have to say, it did crash quite a bit, so I can't blame you for giving up on it ;).

Re:Where's the role playing? (1)

kensai (139597) | about 9 years ago | (#13724362)

If you haven't played Planescape: Torment, then do so now. The story alone is what makes this game a must play.

Re:Where's the role playing? (1)

stepson (33039) | about 9 years ago | (#13724569)

I can still hear the nameless one say, "Updated my journal..."

Re:Where's the role playing? (4, Insightful)

thebdj (768618) | about 9 years ago | (#13724390)

Ummm...wow did you give up on the RPG early or what? I would have to say that BG is decently open. Of course there are never going to be a HUGE variety of end game scenarios. If you want a VERY open RPG, look to Elder Scrolls 3: Morrowind (and two expansions), the hopefully soon arrive ES4. ES3 has tons of different quest lines to go down besides just the main quest line, there are also plenty of things you can do that effect how different characters will react to you.

Anyone who has played a thief in ES3 can tell you that there are tons of opportunities to earn free items, and plenty of times to kill NPCs. The map is HUGE and the game had a cool story. Honestly, BG was ages ago and I cannot remember it too well, but you do have a decent range of mobility in your actions there, but with all single player games there is of course that main quest to shoot for.

I personally liked KotoR as well, but you might still find it a bit restrictive. You will get a chance for multiple game endings and opportunities to selectively add party members based on your reactions and what not. KotoR2 is suppose to even start you out differently based on how you ended KotoR1. Like Dark Forces 2: JK, there really are only like two endings, but like I said there is only so much end game you can stuff into a PC game (more true with consoles).

I would look into some of these games, because seriously if you abandonned the RPG before Baldur's Gate, you have missed out on a lot of great gameplay.

Re:Where's the role playing? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 years ago | (#13724766)

Honestly, I'd have to disagree.

Post-1995 RPGs(and a number of earlier ones) are generally overly huge and crufty hackfests that otherwise suffer from the same problems as the old games.

I like the old ones better now because they keep things simple. You don't go in and search everyone's house because that option isn't there. But when everyone decided, "hokay, let's model the entire game universe at battle-scale" you ended up with a lot of highly uninteresting content of dubious usefulness. I much prefer:

-Go to the mayor
-Go to the healer
-Go to the blacksmith
-Leave

to wandering around for five minutes trying to do one of those things.

Re:Where's the role playing? (1)

argent (18001) | about 9 years ago | (#13724846)

I much prefer:

-Go to the mayor
-Go to the healer
-Go to the blacksmith
-Leave


What about:

-Go to the mayor
-Go to the healer
-Go to the blacksmith
-Go to the pub
-Go to the library
-Go to the fairground
-Go to the monastery
-Go to the cathedral
-Go to the carpenter
-Go to the stews
-Go to the alchemist
-Go to the recruiting hall
-Go to the clockmaker

Re:Where's the role playing? (1)

Pluvius (734915) | about 9 years ago | (#13724436)

Next you're going to tell us that Capture the Flag isn't really all that much like actual warfare. No shit, seriously? Christ. Rob

Re:Where's the role playing? (2, Informative)

aetherspoon (72997) | about 9 years ago | (#13724460)

Planescape: Torment would be about as close as you get to what you are saying - every action affects you in some ways, your character becomes YOU. It is entirely possible to go wading through thousands of enemies annihilating all in your path as it is to fight only when absolutely necessary (which is really rare).
In essence, it is what a lot of DMs want to see in a Roleplaying game. Yes, it is still bound by some restrictions - this is a computer game, last I checked everything on a computer at this time has at least some restrictions.

Re:Where's the role playing? (1)

argent (18001) | about 9 years ago | (#13724764)

It is entirely possible to go wading through thousands of enemies annihilating all in your path as it is to fight only when absolutely necessary (which is really rare).

That's a tactical-level choice, yes, but what if I want to opt out of the whole "combat" thing and have my character be an armorer or a research alchemist? I know Everquest has schemes where you can pretend to be a shopkeeper and sit at your computer typing buy and sell commands all day (or have a script do it for you), but that's seems to be something they added to discourage people from avoiding the combat option. After all, if you were to role-play the life of a fighter at that mind-numbing level of reality you'd spend most of your time working out, drilling, or sitting around recovering from your wounds (or dying from them, but that'd REALLY turn off the punters).

In essence, it is what a lot of DMs want to see in a Roleplaying game.

I dunno. I had my best time ever in a RPG when one of the players misunderstood one of the clues I'd dropped and the whole party went haring off along the coast to the other side of the inland sea. I hadn't laid out that part of the world in any kind of detail and I had to ad-lib like the devil for the rest of the session and do a lot of redesign before the next weekend. But a fine time was had by all!

this is a computer game, last I checked everything on a computer at this time has at least some restrictions.

I know, you can't really do a computer RPG without Turing-level AI. That's why I wish they'd call these things unit/individual level combat games than "role playing" games.

Re:Where's the role playing? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 years ago | (#13724923)

What the hell is "Turing-level" AI? You don't get to use the term "Turing Test" to explain it unless you explain in full what the Turing test is? "I want a game where I sit around and do nothing. WHy don't they Cater to my demographic? THEY VIOLATED MY PRECIOUS SEMANTICS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

Neverwinter Nights, I guess? (1)

mister_llah (891540) | about 9 years ago | (#13724464)

If you have a person who writes the adventure and is running a game directly... you can get real role playing...

It's a computer, until we have an AI that is nearly human-like in thought... we're not going to get true role playing on the computer, it's just how it goes.

===

If you're looking for character development in RPGs, stick with table top, old bean, you'll be much happier...

Re:Where's the role playing? (1)

Blakey Rat (99501) | about 9 years ago | (#13724692)

Have you played Morrowind? That's the most "pure" RP environment I've seen in a long time.

A game about... (-1, Troll)

gracenix (803510) | about 9 years ago | (#13724319)

Dragons with erections??

Blood & Magic (5, Informative)

HydrusZ (539461) | about 9 years ago | (#13724328)

"Dragonshard is the first melding of Dungeons and Dragons with the Real-Time Strategy genre"

You're off by about 9 years. Blood & Magic [gamespot.com] was a D&D RTS based on Forgotten Realms that came out in 1996. Not a terrible game, but it wasn't near the top of RTS's even back then.

Re:Blood & Magic (1)

syrinx (106469) | about 9 years ago | (#13724450)

Thank you, I was trying to remember the name of that one.

Of course, sometimes it seems like most Slashdotters were about 5 years old in 1996, so maybe Zonk figured no one would notice.

Re:Blood & Magic (1)

zoomba (227393) | about 9 years ago | (#13724521)

Even Atari and Liquid Entertainment can't seem to remember Blood & Magic. They're billing the game as the first ever D&D RTS.

Shoot the narrator, please! (1)

meowsqueak (599208) | about 9 years ago | (#13724337)

Did anyone else find the narrator's voice extremely irritating? Also, in the tutorial, he insists on telling you multiple times how to do something simple, and congratulates you patronisingly and annoyingly every time you accomplish these simple tasks. I almost gave up on the game by the end of the tutorial. Instead I played the first mission and gave up after that.

Speaking of which, it took me two hours to get through the tutorials! It might be great for complete newbies but I just wanted to know what made the game different and I wasn't expecting it to take so damn long. (the game does not incorporate two hours of unique features - it was the narrator's fault - see above).

Eberron Setting (2, Insightful)

ShakaUVM (157947) | about 9 years ago | (#13724409)

Eberron ain't that great a setting. It's not particularly inspired, and the rules for it don't help it reach its stated goal, which is to create "Cinematic Roleplaying". Wow, ok, I have these "Action Points" that can be used as die bumps. Thats crazy. Wow, the "Extreme Adventurer" gets more of these die bumps. So very cinematic. =P

I think their core concept is that if you publish modules with one or two film noir-esque illustrations in each one, that somehow will make a roleplaying experience cinematic. (And no, it doesn't work.)

For a roleplaying system that actually, really, creates a cinematic feel to it, try out Feng Shui some time. There's a D20 adaptation for it (Google "Burning Shaolin"), but their core system is better. No dis on D&D, I play it a lot, it's just that they really missed the mark on this one.

Re:Eberron Setting (1)

djp928 (516044) | about 9 years ago | (#13724678)

Spoken like someone truly bitter about not making the cut during the Fantasy Setting Search! ;-)

-- Dave

Is there an Underdark in Eberron? (1)

$nickname_212 (805232) | about 9 years ago | (#13724414)

I know Underdark is in the Forgotten Realms, but I am not familiar with Eberron. Also, I am not sure about this, but is Underdark a generic reference to underground cultures, environments, etc.? I would hope there is a different term for the underground life of Eberron.

Slow year for RTS? (1)

mister_llah (891540) | about 9 years ago | (#13724443)

It's been a slow helluva long time, IMHO there hasn't been a really good RTS since Rise of Nations.

Every single one I've played has been a disappointment since then.

===

Until there is some sort of new concept in the RTS games put out on the market... things aren't going to change, either... it'll all just be rehashes of the same thing, over and over.

Slow year (1)

Wiarumas (919682) | about 9 years ago | (#13724456)

"It's been a slow year for Real-Time Strategy" *awaits for age of empires III*

Not the first Dungeons and Dragons RTS! (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 years ago | (#13724527)

Stronghold, published by SSI in 1993 was also a D&D branded RTS, not an overhead view of all of the action, not multiplayer, but Real Time and Strategy nonetheless! It was also a pretty fun game. If you can find a copy of it I'd guess it would still be pretty fun today!

PS:T (3, Interesting)

chaleur (896943) | about 9 years ago | (#13724579)

Planescape: Torment was good in spite of the fact that it was based on the D&D system. Not because of that system. As one friend of mine put it: "It just shows what you can do with a system, when you ignore that system as much as you can, and just write a good story."

Name? (0, Troll)

coopaq (601975) | about 9 years ago | (#13724594)

Dragons Hard... like its a Sci-fi beastiality porno.

Eberron? donde? (2, Interesting)

rayde (738949) | about 9 years ago | (#13724631)

i think i speak for many of us when i ask the question: Where are our Dragonlance and/or Ravenloft related games and/or movies? Personally, these settings interested me the most of all the TSR worlds. Someday, the Chronicles [dragonlance-movie.com] will be made into a movie, and then everything will be right in the world. :-D

PnP quasi-RTS (1)

Short Circuit (52384) | about 9 years ago | (#13724647)

I was going to run a quasi-RTS D&D game. The idea was, you're the leader of an organization (or a god, but that position was reserved to a specific few). I'm the DM. To interact with your minions, you interact with me.

And every weekend, I'd play out all the results from all the opposing minions.

Didn't work out, though. I didn't have the spare time required. But I did put together a bunch of pages [brew-masters.com] describing how it'd work, if anyone's interested.

My Dragon (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 years ago | (#13724874)

My dragon's hard right now, if you know what I mean!

I cant be the only person waiting for..... (0, Redundant)

adnausium (901852) | about 9 years ago | (#13724929)

...a new Starcraft or at least another expansion pack!! And where is Dragonlance the movie trilogy?! Now that we know they can do it right, a la LOTR.... P.S. and SC: Ghost doesnt count

Another "Hey customer, test this for us" Game (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 years ago | (#13724940)

I was involved in the DragonShard multi-player Beta through Atari (not that gamespy crap) and have to warn everyone thinking about buying this game: They only gave us ONE patch to test!!! ONE! And it had enough issues that most people stopped playing/participating in the beta. We were in a holding-pattern waiting and waiting for another beta patch to resolve issues ranging from connectivity to playability. They never came out with anything I'd say was close to a final release. They were still tweaking the seriously imbalanced units ...

But on a good note (if it isn't full of bugs), it's a fun game. The RPG factor (in the dungeon crawling sense not role-playing) adds a nice twist to the RTS genre.

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