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TiVo Buries the VCR

Zonk posted about 9 years ago | from the i-don't-want-to-go-on-the-cart dept.

Television 210

Biul drolly writes "Apparently, TiVo's marketing department had difficulty with figurative speech in school." Specifically, News.com reports that TiVo held a mock funeral for the VCR this week. From the article: "While the death of VCRs and the VHS format has been long expected, it may be a bit premature to announce its arrival. Some 97 million households still have at least one VCR, according to the International Recording Media Association. However, TiVo's stunt does point out how fragile the VCR market is. Panasonic and Toshiba still make VCRs, as do lesser-known companies such as Lite-On, a Taiwan-based electronics manufacturer that sells its recorders through Wal-Mart Stores. But several manufactures have quit making VCRs. Brian Lucas, a spokesman for Best Buy, said that the retailer carries less than 10 models of standalone VCRs now. Ten years ago, it carried more than two dozen."

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In Soviet, uh, (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 years ago | (#13796562)

I assure you I will have a clever comment by the time Zonk posts this again.

And TiVo will be buried by... (3, Insightful)

bennomatic (691188) | about 9 years ago | (#13796566)

...the iTunes Video Store being played on Macs with Front Row. Not to mention commuters watching their favorite shows on the train in the mornings and evenings.

Video-enabled iPods (1)

bennomatic (691188) | about 9 years ago | (#13796573)

Meant to say that commuters will be watching on their new iPods...

Re:And TiVo will be buried by... (4, Interesting)

aussie_a (778472) | about 9 years ago | (#13796594)

I don't see it myself. Unless the content can be enlarged to tv-size (and there are very large televisions out there ;) But let's say your average sized one) with no degredation (well, no quality-loss that a human can perceive anyway), I can't see the Itunes Video Store taking off. While it might be good to watch it on a small screen for those who have a lot of shows with no time to watch them, most people will want something more lasting then something that can only be viewed on a small screen for their $2.

Re:And TiVo will be buried by... (1)

bennomatic (691188) | about 9 years ago | (#13796608)

Agreed; however, I don't see any reason why they couldn't begin to offer shows in a higher-quality format if the store shows any promise.

In a world where people pay $2.00 for a ring tone that sounds like crap and will expire in 90 days, I think it's likely that a significant population will be very willing to pay for video downloads in a pretty significant volume.

Even if just a million people download a couple of TV shows a year--and I'll bet it'll be a lot more than that--Apple will be able to convince more networks and studios to release content that way. Heck, if 24 came available, I'd probably buy the whole series and watch it every day during the commute hours. And I'm sure there is a Simpsons or two that I've never seen...

I can practically hear the sounds of chairs being thrown in Redmond now...

Re:And TiVo will be buried by... (2, Insightful)

2bitcomputers (864663) | about 9 years ago | (#13796635)

Yeah man. Lost has what, 4 eppisodes per month? so thats $2 per show x 4 =$8/month to watch lost. I am paying like $60/mo for fucking cable and there is nothing ever on! I could get Lost, Prison Break, Surviror, and Numb3rs for $32/month and watch them with no comercials, anywhere I want to. If I wasn't too cheep to buy the Video IPod...

Oh well back to downloading torrents.....

Speaking of torrents... (1)

bennomatic (691188) | about 9 years ago | (#13796646)

...it would be really wise of Jobs and Co (meaning the TV/movie studios) to try to figure out a way to embrace BitTorrent (or some similar technology) to distribute those mountains of data. Heck; why pay Akamai to ship all that crap out if they can build torrenting into iTunes. Maybe give people a discount on purchasing certain media if they are willing to torrent it out to new buyers...

Re:And TiVo will be buried by... (1)

QuietLagoon (813062) | about 9 years ago | (#13796803)

I don't see it myself. Unless the content can be enlarged to tv-size (and there are very large televisions out there ;)

Unless the sound from the iPod comes from 5.1 surround sound with subwoofers capable of rattling your fillings, the use of an iPod for music listening will never take off. Most people will want more than simplistic headphone playback for the songs they buy for $0.99.

Re:And TiVo will be buried by... (1)

aussie_a (778472) | about 9 years ago | (#13797036)

Aaah, but your post ignores the fact that portable music have been around for quite some time, much longer then subwoofers and dolby digital surround have been common place. People became use to listening to their music with shitty quality long ago.

Portable tvs (the hand-held ones) on the other hand never took off anywhere near as much. I doubt very much that Apple will be able to make a large difference on this (for any sustained period of time).

Re:And TiVo will be buried by... (1)

QuietLagoon (813062) | about 9 years ago | (#13797065)

I do not disagree with your comment. However, I do note that portable TVs are an analogy for portable radios, not portable video players.

One reason portable TVs never took off was the reception problems inherent in receiving TV signals. Portable video players do not have those reception problems.

Re:And TiVo will be buried by... (1)

Mannerism (188292) | about 9 years ago | (#13796837)

and there are very large televisions out there ;)

Yes, I was always confused by the message, "this film has been formatted to fit your screen". I mean, how do they know how large my screen is? ;-)

Re:And TiVo will be buried by... (2, Insightful)

Musteval (817324) | about 9 years ago | (#13796857)

Unless the content can be enlarged to tv-size (and there are very large televisions out there ;) But let's say your average sized one) with no degredation (well, no quality-loss that a human can perceive anyway), I can't see the Itunes Video Store taking off.

At some point, the content will be TV-sized with no loss of quality. Bandwidth and storage sizes are increasing at an exponential rate (see this [useit.com] and this [sciam.com] ). In five or ten years, I'd be surprised if cheap, extremely high-resolution TV shows and movies weren't avaliable for download, possibly even through the TV itself. Apple iTV, coming soon to a shop near you!

Re:And TiVo will be buried by... (1)

aussie_a (778472) | about 9 years ago | (#13797046)

In five or ten years

And if Apple is still providing this service in 5 or 10 years then that will be great. But with the way the article was talking, VCRs will die much sooner then that. Apple's Itunes Video Service won't be a serious alternative for VCRs in the next couple of years.

Re:And TiVo will be buried by... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 years ago | (#13796619)

obviously, a fanboy!

I predict (1)

Rhinobird (151521) | about 9 years ago | (#13796657)

...a TiVo model with Video iPod synching in the near future.

Re:And TiVo will be buried by... (1)

LaughingCoder (914424) | about 9 years ago | (#13796723)

I disagree. Watching video is predominantly a "foreground" activity. It's not something you do while multi-tasking. Yes, you might have the news or a ball game on in the background, but for things like watching movies or TV programs, most often you devote your entire attention to it. For this reason, mobile video, in my opinion, will always be a niche, and has no potential for displacing TIVO (or more correctly PVRs). I think they can however be a complimentary technology - let me copy that TV show from my TIVO to my iPod because I'll be stuck on the train for half an hour on the way to work. But for really enjoying a good movie, sporting event or TV show, I'll always opt for my recliner, my bigscreen and 500 Watts of surround sound anytime over a 3" screen and earbuds.

Re:And TiVo will be buried by... (1)

bennomatic (691188) | about 9 years ago | (#13796842)

You're right... that's why I mentioned first and foremost, people downloading and watching using "frontrow". Once there's enough content, I think we'll see higher resolution options available and a mass migration of computers to the living room. People are already doing it with the mini...

The iPod w/ video is just a sneaky way to get us to be comfortable with buying video downloads to be used on a device. Let's go back in history... even though I know Apple did not invent any of these categories, they integrated them all so well, and introduced them in an order that helped ease adoption of the next step.

1- iTunes: easy to use - rip, mix and burn
2- iPod: integrates with iTunes for the songs you've ripped
3- iTunes Music Store: integrates with iPod for the songs you haven't ripped
4- iPod Photo: integrates with iPhoto, shows that iPod does more than music, starts move to color screens
4- Bonus: streaming videos and movie trailers within iTunes Music Store
5- Podcasting: Supported in iTunes, iTMS, iPod, Podcasting is now officially mainstreamed.
6- Vodcasting: Supported in iTunes, people ask, why can't I watch it on my iPod?
7- FrontRow: people can use their Mac as a multimedia device, wonder, why can't I download video?
8- iPod, with video: integrates with new Vodcasting, new content on iTMS, people start buying video content, start asking why can't I get full movies, and/or higher resolution content?
9- Future: Apple offers hi-res content and movies. People download and wonder why they ever went to Blockbuster or even Netflix.
10- There is no step 10, or
10- ???
11- Profit!

Re:And TiVo will be buried by... (1)

CastrTroy (595695) | about 9 years ago | (#13796977)

It really depends on how much time you have to watch TV, when you really couldn't otherwise. I spend about an hour and a half on the bus, each day, usually listening to music or reading a book. I think it would be great to be able to watch the shows I usually watch at night, while on the bus, so that I wouldn't want to spend my hours at home, watching TV.

Re:And TiVo will be buried by... (1)

drsquare (530038) | about 9 years ago | (#13796775)

I don't see it. It's not just about screensize or economics, it's about behaviour and convenience.

With a TIVO, you just pick a programme from the menu and that's it. Itunes means a completely different paradigm. It means using your computer in order to watch TV. Instead of just sitting on the couch, you have to go to the computer room, turn on the computer, start up itunes, download the shows (could take hours), then find a way of getting them to the TV.

A Tivo plugs into the TV, as does a video. More than likely your computer isn't underneath the TV, it's on the other side of the house. This means either dragging a cable along, or transferring the show via an ipod or DVD.

Also, I can use a VCR for free. I need to pay get something off Itunes. Maybe in the future when Internet downloading is integrated into TVs, but not now.

Huh? (2, Interesting)

nekojin (855341) | about 9 years ago | (#13796569)

They still make them? Most media stores have relegated all their VHS stock to a single shelf at basement prices. I understand that many people still have VHS because the new-fangled 'tech' of the DVD scares them, but it's getting to the point now where you simply can't find tapes to play anymore. TiVo has the right idea on this one, although I hope they weren't saying they were the replacement for the VCR.

Re:Huh? (1)

Arghdee (813921) | about 9 years ago | (#13796580)

The only people I know who still use VCRs regularly, are those with young kids.

VHS tape is a damn sight easier for a kid to manage than a DVD, also a lot less likely to be damaged by said kids.

Even my father just got rid of his VCR from lack of use - and that's saying something..

Re:Huh? (3, Funny)

SoSueMe (263478) | about 9 years ago | (#13796665)

Bugger.

And I just got my VCR to stop flashing "12:00".
A little duct tape over the LED worked fine.

Re:Huh? (1)

Spacejock (727523) | about 9 years ago | (#13796688)

I never bought a movie on video because of the degradation you get after playing the thing a couple of times. The quality is crap, the audio is shocking and the tapes are huge.

On the other hand, the DVD format is perfect. My wife and I just watched the whole series of Dr Who on the laptop. You can buy old movies for pocket change, they don't take up half your house and they'll still be watchable in 5-10 years.

Die, VCR, die. You will not be missed.

Re:I assure you they will (1)

Rekolitus (899752) | about 9 years ago | (#13796841)

So what am I supposed to record TV on now? I must have something like 200 full VCR tapes (because I'm one of those types who never throws anything away.)

The quality on VCR has always been great, and personally, I feel it's the DVD quality that is inferior. Of the two DVDs I have watched, every frame looked like it had been saved as a JPG at a quality level that gives that annoying "watermark" of JPG.

And DVD recorders? Disks are vulnerable to scratches; tapes/cartridges aren't.

And that's not even going into the copy protection thing.

Re:I assure you they will (1)

CastrTroy (595695) | about 9 years ago | (#13797008)

Yeah, I find that DVD usually isn't too bad for quality, but What I do find bad, is Digital Cable. The HD stuff is good, but if it's not HD, it usually ends up looking like some badly encoded thing you download off the internet. There's some places that make it look more noticable than others. Take football for example. All that green "grass" in the background end up looking terrible when compressed. There are a lot of cases when analog looks better than digital, especially when the digital isn't done well enough. Also, when you lose part of a digital signal, the result is unwatchable, when you lose part of an analog signal, you can usually still watch it.

Re:Huh? (2, Funny)

Air-conditioned cowh (552882) | about 9 years ago | (#13797093)

"My wife and I just watched the whole series of Dr Who on the laptop."

Considering the number of Dr Who programs made you must have now been married a long time. Congratulations :-) Now you may both need treatment for neck injury and deep vein thrombosis after all that time sat in front of a laptop.

I doubt those figures. (0)

rebeka thomas (673264) | about 9 years ago | (#13796571)

I doubt those figures of 97 million homes still with VCRs. Everybody I know has at least a DVD player in their home, most actually having a DVD recorder of some form and most having a home theater PC.

VHS died years ago.

Re:I doubt those figures. (4, Insightful)

bennomatic (691188) | about 9 years ago | (#13796591)

What's to doubt? Just because people get DVD players doesn't mean they throw out their VCRs... People still have libraries of stuff which they haven't--and might not ever--convert to DVD.

My parents are finally decomissioning one of their two Betamax machines. Under both their TVs, they've had a VHS and a Beta for, well, decades. I bought them a DVD player for their anniversary two years ago, and they use it all the time, but it doesn't mean that they're just going to toss the VCR. Heck, they still get broadcast TV over a roof-top antenna!

For them to move to a new technology, it takes a pretty significant push. For them to actually ditch the old, it's got to be even greater. And with our aging population, I'll bet there are plenty of people--at least 97 million of them--who are more than happy to hold on to their old technology.

Parents? What about me, actually? I rarely use my VCR, but I still have it, and it works great for the rare occasions that I do record anything for later viewing. I sincerely doubt that I'll ever buy TiVo. However, I'd be happy to buy a non-subscription-based (i.e. per transaction) downloadable video rental and purchase system like Apple is doing with iTunes Video.

Videos, TV shows, podcasts, news headlines, sports highlights, political commentary. There's no reason why there should not be a huge market for a wide variety of downloadable content that traditionally would have gone over broadcast or cable.

Re:I doubt those figures. (1)

aussie_a (778472) | about 9 years ago | (#13796609)

My parents are finally decomissioning one of their two Betamax machines.

Wow! Those betamax machines were certainly built to last! Even if your parents didn't use them that much.

Heck, they still get broadcast TV over a roof-top antenna!

Which I plan to do myself when I move out of home. I can't see roof-top antenna's ever being decomissioned unless:
1) every station agrees to stop transmitting their data that way or
2) basic television becomes free even when sent via cable-line (not to be confused with cable companies ;)) or
3) the government passes a law forcing the television companies to stop doing it or
4) Television dies :D

Subscribing to cable is just a waste of money for people who don't watch a lot of tv.

Re:I doubt those figures. (3, Insightful)

aussie_a (778472) | about 9 years ago | (#13796599)

Everybody I know has at least a DVD player in their home, most actually having a DVD recorder of some form and most having a home theater PC.

Right. And I'm assuming most/everyone you know is either very technically minded or has a lot of money. Because I doubt very much that a DVD recorder is the norm in America, with most people having a home theater PC (what do you mean by that?).

Over here in Australia the norm is a DVD and a VCR, with some people having a home theater big screen (although it isn't common by any stretch of the imagination). I imagine that America has a lot more DVR's (the only one I know of being sold in Australia is a proprietry one developed by a cable company that may or may not work with normal tv or other cable companies), I can't see DVD recorders being the norm. I know Australia's normally a little behind America, but I doubt it's that far behind.

Re:I doubt those figures. (1)

tooth (111958) | about 9 years ago | (#13796822)

I've also noticed that dvd/vcr combos are becoming more popular and cheper in stores. I can see the plain vcr being replaced by the dvd/vcr combo machine, but not a straight HDD type device.

I can't record something for friends, parent, in-laws etc. because I can't give them a tape of a show (or whatever) when I visit them. My parents don't even own a dvd player yet. I doubt that they'll get one soon either, as long as the local rental store keeps renting vcr tapes.

Actually, that reminds me that vcrs might be popular with older people: just put tape in and hit play, as apposed to dvds, that have fancy menus that might be hard for some one to use, esp if the have poor vision.

Re:I doubt those figures. (1)

makomk (752139) | about 9 years ago | (#13796982)

I don't know about Australia, but I can see PVRs catching on over here in the UK soon. Why? The digital switchover. Once analog switches off, you'll either have do some tricky messing around with your Freeview set-top box and your VCR (and possibly buy a second STB) or buy a Freeview PVR. There are already several makes of Freeview-based PVRs - they use the over-the-air 7-day listing (no subscription), and I expect there'll be strong competition on price, features, ease-of-use, etc between manufacturers. (You can also set up a MythTV box to do the same thing, but that's harder.)

Incidentally, TiVo and similar analog PVRs don't seem to be too common over here, probably because of these and more importantly Sky+ (see below)

Note to non-UK viewers - Freeview is the UK's free (as in pay via the license) over-the-air digital service. It has most of the interesting channels IMO. For satellite, you'd be using Sky and you'd have to buy their own Sky+ PVR box - no competition, possibly an extra subscription fee, etc.

Re:I doubt those figures. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 years ago | (#13796637)

It's a statistcal fallacy : I have a VCR, haven't watched it for years, but I'm counted in those figures.

Re:I doubt those figures. (3, Insightful)

Dogtanian (588974) | about 9 years ago | (#13796690)

I doubt those figures of 97 million homes still with VCRs. Everybody I know

Ah, yes. The reliable statistical technique of a *not remotely random sample*.

has at least a DVD player in their home, most actually having a DVD recorder

Then "everybody you know" isn't remotely representative. "Most people" don't have a DVD recorder in their home, if by "DVD recorder" you mean a standalone device, and not just a recordable DVD drive in their PC.

of some form and most having a home theater PC.

And "most people" still don't have a "home theater PC".

VHS died years ago.

Oh, this is even more clueless. It's not that VHS is *now* dead.... it's that VHS died *years ago*.

Yes, everyone stopped using VHS in 2001 because standalone DVD recorders were so widely available and cheap back then.

I'm not American, nor am I familiar with the intricacies of the American market. Bearing this in mind, I can still confidently say that your assertion that "VHS died years ago" is complete garbage.

Amongst your very niche-y, cliquey, enclosed group of early-adopting, tech-obsessed friends, perhaps. But Tivo, despite its fanatical following, was (and still is) dwarfed by VHS usage.

Of course, VHS users are likely to be less serious tech-fans/TV-viewers, and thus aren't as "prominent" or "fashionable"; but I can quite confidently tell you that despite all the fuss over PVRs and recordable DVD in the past few years, both those technologies were still relatively niche products. Only *now* are they getting to the point where they will replace VHS.

Don't even think about pointing out the obvious; that DVD players are ubiquitous, and have almost killed off the pre-recorded VHS market (possible exception being childrens' stuff). Of course they are, and of course it has.

You were discussing the *death* of VHS, and until recently there has been no competition for *recording* material.

I think we're at the point now where VHS really *will* be eaten alive by a combination of DVD recorders (the most obvious replacement for VHS recording), and PVRs (the most *suitable* replacement for what VHS is still used for- time-shifting; most people don't want to keep the stuff they watch, so removing the hassle of changing media and keeping it all in one place is what they *really* want- trust me).

For example, my local supermarket now sells a basic PVR with integrated "Freeview" (terrestrial digital) tuner for UK £99 (about US $170). If I hadn't already had a Freeview tuner, or if I'd been into time-shifting enough to make it worthwhile, I'd have snapped it up.

I predicted in early 2004 that Christmas 2005 would be the "tipping point" when PVRs (not DVD recorders so much) would put the final nail in the coffin of VHS by taking over its remaining use. PVRs, I guessed, would be the runaway success this Christmas that DVD players were 3 or so years ago.

Well, I'm not 100% sure if I was right about Christmas, but if the tipping point isn't right now, I'm still confident it'll be in the next 4-6 months.

I still use ny VCR (1)

nra1871 (836627) | about 9 years ago | (#13796700)

Primarily as a way of changing channels. My TV is one I found in my parents basement 6 years ago when I moved out. It has no remote, and by itself only handles the first 30 channels. It also has coaxial as its only input, so I have to run my XBox through the VCR as well. I almost never use it for recording, though it still plays my old VHS tapes when the need arises. Recently my wife dug out her copy of Ice Pirates, which she recorded off TV when she was really young (say early 80s). The quality was atrocious! I never realized how much tapes degraded. Most of the time I had to squint at the screen and go 'what the hell is going on'.

Re:I doubt those figures. (1)

Halfbaked Plan (769830) | about 9 years ago | (#13796725)

Most everybody I know has at least one oscilloscope at home. Well, not 'everybody' but anybody whose opinion matters on things electronic.

Anyhow...

Tivo's funeral is not that far away either (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 years ago | (#13796576)


One might think considering how fast they are loosing the customer base.

My bet (1)

btarval (874919) | about 9 years ago | (#13796829)

My bet is that Tivo is going to die before the VCR. The VCR still lets me play anything I like, the way I want it. This is a feature which Tivo is lacking.

Marketting garbage for future technology (5, Insightful)

aussie_a (778472) | about 9 years ago | (#13796584)

Brian Lucas, a spokesman for Best Buy, said that the retailer carries less than 10 models of standalone VCRs now. Ten years ago, it carried more than two dozen.

Uh-huh. That's certainly a guarded comment (designed to make the death of the VCR look like it will occur much sooner then it will), how many models of VCR-included technology does the retailer have?

The amount of models isn't even that important, it's how many are being sold (and if they've made them last longer, even that isn't as important, although I doubt that they've improved it's longevity somehow).

The amount of people using alternate technologies to VCR's, while it's increased, is far from dominant in any market. And I'd hardly say that the VCR market is fragile. While VCRs with content are becoming less and less common, blank VCRs are still the most common (along with cheapest and easiest) method of recording content off the television. And Tivo can't expect to lead (or even be a major player) in the next generation of recording technology if they continue their trend of putting content disseminators before their customers.

In summary, the article twists facts to make VCRs look like they're going to become extinct much sooner then they actually will, and Tivo will need a HELL of a lot more publicity stunts if they continue with their current trend of kowtowing to content disseminators and hurting their customers.

Re:Marketting garbage for future technology (1)

heavy snowfall (847023) | about 9 years ago | (#13796610)

I agree, Tivo aren't the right people to bury the VCR, their offering is too crappy. If MythTV was a little easier to install (I did it, but some people may have trouble) and get working with all your hardware, and hardware was super-cheap and small, it would be perfect. I suspect prebuilt ms mediacenter (ugh) and prebuilt myth boxes to some extent will eventually bury the VCR. When everyone has transferred all their home vids to dvd or disk...

--
free Palm games [arpx.net]

Re:Marketting garbage for future technology (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 years ago | (#13796671)

I agree, Tivo aren't the right people to bury the VCR, their offering is too crappy. If MythTV was a little easier to install (I did it, but some people may have trouble) and get working with all your hardware, and hardware was super-cheap and small, it would be perfect.


Care to expand on you opinion. Why do you think the Tivo is crappy?

Is it harder to install than MythTV? Does some of the hardware not work (ok, DirecTivos don't really have functional USB ports ...)? Is the hardware not
cheap enough, not small enough? Oh right, it's crappy cause it has a monthly
fee.

Maybe that just makes your job crappy. I don't think it's worth my time to
build a MythTV when I can grab a Tivo at walmart and call DirecTV and ... it
just works.

Re:Marketting garbage for future technology (1)

Dun Malg (230075) | about 9 years ago | (#13796941)

"I agree, Tivo aren't the right people to bury the VCR, their offering is too crappy. If MythTV was a little easier to install (I did it, but some people may have trouble) and get working with all your hardware, and hardware was super-cheap and small, it would be perfect."

Care to expand on you opinion. Why do you think the Tivo is crappy?

Is it harder to install than MythTV? Does some of the hardware not work (ok, DirecTivos don't really have functional USB ports ...)? Is the hardware not cheap enough, not small enough? Oh right, it's crappy cause it has a monthly fee.

Maybe that just makes your job crappy. I don't think it's worth my time to build a MythTV when I can grab a Tivo at walmart and call DirecTV and ... it just works.

Who modded the above flambait? Is it inflamatory to not toe the FOSS party line? He raises very good questions. The OP declared TiVo "crappy" but then didn't give a single reason why. Isn't THAT flambait? I guess not on /.

Re:Marketting garbage for future technology (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 years ago | (#13797104)

Actually in the UK, Dixons, one the largest electronics retailers have completely dropped the VCR.

The VCR is dead, lets get over it.

it works.. (2, Insightful)

Chulo (711610) | about 9 years ago | (#13796589)

if it's a matter of whether it skips or tracks, i'll take the tracking any day. there's much improvement to be done on current dvd pla¥ers. i'd rather take a tracked out scene rather than a scratched out scene. not that i'd switch to win95 before osx

Re:it works.. (2, Interesting)

pla (258480) | about 9 years ago | (#13796850)

there's much improvement to be done on current dvd players.

Buy a real DVD player, not the $19 Wallyworld special.

With decent error compensation, a badly scratched DVD player gives basically the same effect as a badly worn section of tape - Sure, you get digital crap instead of analog crap (I personally prefer static over giant blocky colors), but it doesn't need to skip.

Though admittedly, tape has a nice suit of armor, and only has one small section exposed at a time. I've always considered that one of the shortcomings of current optical discs, that they don't live in a replaceable-but-basically-sealed caddy of some sort. They come in bigger plastic cases, why not just shove that case directly in the player rather than needing to expose the disc itself?

And as a nice side effect, they would all have the exact same shape and size, making my CD collection look much tidier, rather than mostly little plastic boxes, with a few bigger plastic boxes, some pseudo-vinyl-like boxes, some paper envelopes, some "oh look at the book" boxes, and all the rest. Free clue for marketing weenies - I buy a CD for the music it contains. If it doesn't come in a standard jewel case, that gives me a reason not to buy it. And if it doesn't fit on a 4 7/8" high shelf, I'd rather download it illegally than buy your stupid novelty packaging.

WOW did I get side-tracked there. Okay, rant over. Done.

They're not taking my VCR away! (5, Insightful)

hazee (728152) | about 9 years ago | (#13796592)

I like my VCR. It records what I tell it to. I don't have to put up with any crap about shows deleting themselves, or not being allowed to record them in the first place. I don't have to connect it to a phone line. I don't have to pay any sort of subscription fee. It lets me skip through any bits I don't want to see. It was dirt cheap to buy and operate. I have unlimited storage capacity. I can buy movies cheaper than any DVD, and that fill the frame of my cheap 4:3 TV.

Explain to me again, why is the VCR dead?

Re:They're not taking my VCR away! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 years ago | (#13796631)

I don't have to put up with any crap about shows deleting themselves, or not being allowed to record them in the first place.

Ever hear of Macrovision?

Explain to me again, why is the VCR dead?

Same reason audio cassettes are dead. People want random access. People want higher quality. People want lossless copying.

Re:They're not taking my VCR away! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 years ago | (#13796633)

Don't forget the occasional disc that gives read errors that translate into unwatchable skipping bullshit or worse. Why does higher tech need to be more fragile? The should have introduced integrated plastic caddy's for optical discs long ago.

Re:They're not taking my VCR away! (2, Insightful)

Mr2001 (90979) | about 9 years ago | (#13796640)

Don't forget the occasional disc that gives read errors that translate into unwatchable skipping bullshit or worse. Why does higher tech need to be more fragile?

You must be joking. Scratched DVDs can be resurfaced inexpensively, but a damaged VHS tape is damaged forever unless you want to send it off to some forensic lab. And have you ever had a damaged/dirty VCR "eat" your tape? Impossible with DVDs.

Re:They're not taking my VCR away! (1)

zakezuke (229119) | about 9 years ago | (#13796693)

You must be joking. Scratched DVDs can be resurfaced inexpensively, but a damaged VHS tape is damaged forever unless you want to send it off to some forensic lab. And have you ever had a damaged/dirty VCR "eat" your tape? Impossible with DVDs.

Ever have small children eat your VHS tape? Every have small children eat a DVD?

You can resurface the plastic layer, but if you loose the data layer, well, you are screwed. It takes alot to make a VHS tape unwatchable. You'd pretty much have to mangle the tracking segment through out the entire tape, which i've only seen happen when a walnut shell got wedged on the head and etched little potmarks everywhere.

I may have no big love for VHS but those tapes are pretty damned durable.

well, not impossible (1)

way2trivial (601132) | about 9 years ago | (#13796772)

My wife wanted the INTEGRATED FORD player in our new truck (what the hell, she paid for it)
it now has two dvd's in it.. (thanks kids)

try to get two VHS tapes into a slot designed for one-- there are always tradeoffs.

Re:They're not taking my VCR away! (1)

Rekolitus (899752) | about 9 years ago | (#13796880)

Not true. I have previously repaired VCR tapes by opening up the guard plastic, cutting out the damaged tape, and taping the two ends together. I miss a few seconds, and it's a little sticky at that point, but it works.

Re:They're not taking my VCR away! (1)

Franklinstein (909568) | about 9 years ago | (#13797094)

"Scratched DVDs can be resurfaced inexpensively"

Speaking of scratched DVDs...and I guess CDs too since people inevitably store plenty of downloaded um..."free"...content on CDRs, does anybody know how reliable the toothpaste/deoderant method is for cleaning scratched discs? I have a lot of scratched ones since I keep them in spools and I think I'm just going to save myself a bunch of trouble and buy a SkipDr [digitalinnovations.com] . Anybody ever use one of those before? Would you recommend it?

Re:They're not taking my VCR away! (1)

Lord_Dweomer (648696) | about 9 years ago | (#13797128)

'Speaking of scratched DVDs...and I guess CDs too since people inevitably store plenty of downloaded um..."free"...content on CDRs, does anybody know how reliable the toothpaste/deoderant method is for cleaning scratched discs? I have a lot of scratched ones since I keep them in spools and I think I'm just going to save myself a bunch of trouble and buy a SkipDr. Anybody ever use one of those before? Would you recommend it?"

Actually yes...I was taking my Battlefield 2 disc to a LAN party at a friends place, and it slipped out of my CD book and was rolling around in my backpack which I didn't realize until I got there. My friend had that Skip Doctor thingy though and in a couple minutes my urge to kill someone was gone and we could finally get on with killing people.

Re:They're not taking my VCR away! (1)

Generic Guy (678542) | about 9 years ago | (#13797110)

And have you ever had a damaged/dirty VCR "eat" your tape? Impossible with DVDs.

Not impossible. Obviously you've never had the joy of dealing with a CD or DVD player where the focusing element goes bonkers and jams the laser head up into the spinning disc's surface, leaving a deep round gouge. Makes me cringe when I hear people talk about the misleading 'forever' factor of disc formats, because it is usually the mechanical player you need worry about.

Not to mention planned obsolescence. There was a slashdot article a few weeks ago asking about CD archives and if there would even be any red laser mechanisms available to read those discs in a few decades.

Re:They're not taking my VCR away! (1)

DJCF (805487) | about 9 years ago | (#13796643)

Happens to a fragile VHS cassette far more than it does to a DVD -- one of the reasons I don't touch VHS cassettes with a 10 foot pole made of VCRs. That and the horrible, horrible, horrible form factor (I could fit a computer in that space!)

Re:They're not taking my VCR away! (1)

Mr2001 (90979) | about 9 years ago | (#13796650)

I don't have to connect it to a phone line.

You clearly have an internet connection, which is all you need for TiVo.

It was dirt cheap to buy and operate. I have unlimited storage capacity.

Those are mutually exclusive: if you want "unlimited" storage capacity, you have to keep buying more tapes. Sure, you can reuse tapes, but you can reuse space on a DVR much more effectively.

I can buy movies cheaper than any DVD, and that fill the frame of my cheap 4:3 TV.

Even on my cheap 4:3 TV, I prefer to watch widescreen.. but you can buy fullscreen DVDs if you really want to. Last time I was at the video store, they had two whole racks of some new release, one widescreen and one fullscreen. (DVD players are also supposed to be able to pan'n'scan widescreen movies on the fly, if you've set it to use P&S instead of letterboxing, but I've never seen it work.)

Re:They're not taking my VCR away! (1)

zakezuke (229119) | about 9 years ago | (#13796662)

I like my VCR. It records what I tell it to. I don't have to put up with any crap about shows deleting themselves, or not being allowed to record them in the first place

My only issues with the VHS VCR are space and quality. Those takes are freaky bulky in contrast to a DVD in a longbox, or better yet standard jewel. Slim jewels or quadjewels are where it's at if you collect series. Pre-recorded tapes are not too shabby, but recording anything in SLP mode is total crap, LP recording isn't supported all that often, and SP is a silly old 2 hours for all that bulk.

I would have been less annoyed with VHS if SVHS was slowly worked into consumer units. Or better yet if 8mm was established as a standard above and beyond camcorders. While I respect analog tape as being a very reliable means of recording in realtime, I for one am happy VHS is going the way of the 8 track.

Re:They're not taking my VCR away! (1)

algf2004 (748651) | about 9 years ago | (#13796777)

why is the VCR dead?

It's not. I agree with your post entirely. The VCR is just dead simple. I can burn DVDs on my computer, but who can I share them with? I don't know anyone that has a DVD player. Yet, everyone I know has a VCR. Common denominator wins, until everyone has a DVD player.

Re:They're not taking my VCR away! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 years ago | (#13796791)

You don't know anyone with a DVD player, a Playstation 2 or a computer bought in the last five years? Wow. How are things at the homeless shelter?

It's not technology or other things,it's economics (1)

Ka D'Argo (857749) | about 9 years ago | (#13796593)

I have a dvd player. Hell my dvd player is pretty sweet, supports all kinds of formats including Divx and some variations of. Plus it holds 3 dvds.

I still use my VCR standalone more. Why? Economics.

Sure that new Random Movie X has some cool features on the 2 disc dvd set. But even Wal Mart will want almost $25 for it. Whereas that VHS, will run me $10 or $15 at most if it's brand new (as in just released).

I love dvd's, small cases, can store a ton of them on relatively small shelf space, they don't wear down from repeated viewings like a VHS does. But they are twice as expensive.

The same will always happen with the new strings of technology. What if mini disc dvd's or whatever they are called take over in the next 5-10 years? DVD prices will be what VHS prices are now.

Maybe when companies stop trying to charge upwards of $25 or $30 for a 2 hour movie on dvd, I'll stick to just them. Yea I know, the extras and stuff often are the "reason" why the cost more, but most times I don't want extras. I just want the movie, in dvd format. I don't need super secret deleted scenes from the underground directors cut of the screenplay. Just gimme the final cut movie, in dvd quality.

Oh and offtopic, while on DVD's, I wish companies would stop releasing stuff in Wide Screen only. Yes I know it's "better" cause you get more viewable space in width and they don't need to stretch the image to fit your tv screen. But guess what? I like pan & scan. I like knowing that my 35 inch tv isn't wasting almost 1/2 it's screen size just to let me see some extra footage, on the sides. If I wanted wide screen I'd have purchased a wide screen style tv. It sucks to go buy a dvd and they only release it in Wide Screen. A relative purchased Oceans Tweleve (debates on good or bad movie, save for another time), but no store sold it in Full Screen on dvd. We finally just exchanged it for our money back.

Re:It's not technology or other things,it's econom (1)

FinestLittleSpace (719663) | about 9 years ago | (#13796616)

I agree with extras, I never watch them... I hate DVD menu navigation, it's very antiquated and slow. I do feel though that DVDs have an arguably better quality than DVDs to warrant buying them.

But... with regards to widescreen...
The reason for widescreen existing is a hell of a lot more reasonable than just people wanting fancy TVs and more stuff to see. As you may or may not know, widescreen and cinemascreen exist as they mimic much more accurately the standard viewing ratio of a 2-eyed human being.... despite eyes on the front of our heads, we have a huge peripheral vision and 4:3 causes extreme eyestrain (even if you do not notice it, it's there) due to that fact that it forces your eyes to naturally cross slightly. I now wouldn't be seen dead with a non-widescreen PC monitor as since buying only widescreens, my eyestrain has decreased to zero.

I'm all for ONLY releasing of widescreen versions by companies, as it will encourage widescreen uptake, which will lead to better eye health, undoubtedly.

Re:It's not technology or other things,it's econom (1)

Nasarius (593729) | about 9 years ago | (#13796712)

Maybe when companies stop trying to charge upwards of $25 or $30 for a 2 hour movie on dvd, I'll stick to just them.

It's so strange. When DVDs were new, they cost about $12-15. Now they're at least $20.

Oh and offtopic, while on DVD's, I wish companies would stop releasing stuff in Wide Screen only.

Even my cheap Apex DVD player has a feature that stretches widescreen to TV-sized for you. Best of both worlds.

VHS is dead (2, Insightful)

Kawahee (901497) | about 9 years ago | (#13796597)

I think this is just another nail in the coffin for VHS, with TiVo and DVD-Rs common methods for recording television broadcasts. I'd say that VHS is going to be around for as long as people have home videos and the like on tapes, or until it becomes unreasonable for stores to sell VCRs at rock bottom prices.

I think quite a large potential market here is the hybrid system (VHS/DVD player), which is what my mother bought because she was afraid of DVDs. Nowadays she rents DVDs only, if the movie is on VHS she is cautious to rent it because she knows how bad the quality will (most likely) be.

Our school has also readily adopted DVDs and purchased a bunch of Macs for video editing and DVD burning, although I personally prefer an XP machine with Adobe Encore, it's a sign of the times.

Although I personally prefer to get my movies delivered direct through my Bittorrent and P2P.

Fewer vs less (1)

Chess_the_cat (653159) | about 9 years ago | (#13796598)

It's "fewer than 10 models".

Re:Fewer vs less (1)

unitron (5733) | about 9 years ago | (#13796701)

It's "fewer than 10 models".

Judging by what I saw at the Best Buy here when I went to buy another VCR a couple of weeks ago it's a lot fewer, like 2, a Panasonic and a Sony.

Note that I'm referring to VCR only models, not the VCR/DVD combo units.

Speaking of VCRs, never, ever, buy anything made by Daewoo. Ever.

Re:Fewer vs less (1)

ffrinch (586802) | about 9 years ago | (#13797011)

The OED's earliest citation for this usage of "less" is from circa 888AD. Hilarious as it is to see prescriptivists still picking at it, don't you think it's time to give it a rest?

DRM (5, Insightful)

TheBrutalTruth (890948) | about 9 years ago | (#13796613)

The more restrictive and pervasive DRM gets, I for one am sure to keep a good 'ol VCR and analog TV around. Not as good as DVD, or HD - but hell, it works just fine. I am a "quality" snob, but I will not surrender my Fair Use rights for that quality.

I work for LiteOn (1)

tedrlord (95173) | about 9 years ago | (#13796620)

And I was totally unaware that we make VCRs. We're an optical drive company, after all. We have one consumer electronics unit that plays VHS, but that's because it was designed to record them to DVD.

Anyway, I figure VCRs will last quite some time yet. Hell, even cassette decks still have their uses. Plus, VHS tapes are still way more convenient and familiar to most people than either recorded DVDs or TiVos. I'm sure companies will still be making them 30 years from now.

Hubris (4, Insightful)

jmichaelg (148257) | about 9 years ago | (#13796621)

Given Tivo's past [slashdot.org] mis-steps [slashdot.org] , it shouldn't be too long before we see Tivo's funeral.

Re:Hubris (1)

NineNine (235196) | about 9 years ago | (#13796839)

On top of all that mess, I think that they also greatly overestimated their market. I don't know of a single person who has a Tivo, and only a few of my geek friends know what a Tivo is. Most people I know have never heard the word "tivo" before.
 
I agree.
They're celebrating a bit early.

VCR=Free RF Modulator built-in (2, Informative)

Alzheimers (467217) | about 9 years ago | (#13796625)

The reason I've kept my VCR so long is that my older TV only accepts Coax input. That makes watching anything besides Cable impossible -- unless you use the VCR's built-in RF Modulator to hook up modern devices that have composite video (like a DVD player) to the A/V input. Just change the VCR channel to "Input" or "Line" and Viola! DVDs, consoles and Camcorders are now fully useable on the older but still functional TV.

Re:VCR=Free RF Modulator built-in (1)

deaddrunk (443038) | about 9 years ago | (#13796668)

Bit crap if all you can watch is DVDs about violas though.

Re:VCR=Free RF Modulator built-in (1)

TheRaven64 (641858) | about 9 years ago | (#13796729)

I use a VCR in exactly the opposite way. I have a projector that only accepts s-video or composite input, and a few old consoles that only have RF-modulated output. The VCR acts as a demodulator, allowing the old consoles to be plugged into the new[1] projector.

[1] In the eBay sense.

Re:VCR=Free RF Modulator built-in (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 years ago | (#13796864)

TiVo has coax output. You can get the Humax DRT800, which serves as a DVD player, DVD burner, and TiVo, outputting to your older TV without a problem. It has a Line In on the front panel so you can hook up a camcorder. It will display your digital camera photos and play your MP3's, accessing them over your home network (wireless or wired). And it's $289-$150 = $139 after rebate, about as cheap as a standalone DVD burner. The monthly fee is a bit much, but setting that aside I've found the TiVo to be fairly wonderful.

Re:VCR=Free RF Modulator built-in (1)

rfunches (800928) | about 9 years ago | (#13797116)

I hate to be OT but...

Just change the VCR channel to "Input" or "Line" and Viola!

Viola is the name of the ficticious woman Shakespeare screwed in "Shakespeare in Love."

My friend made this same mistake but verbally, rather than written -- he [obviously] got a lot of questionable looks.

Have vs USE (4, Funny)

mac123 (25118) | about 9 years ago | (#13796655)

>>Some 97 million households still have at least one VCR, according to the International Recording Media Association.

I have three....count 'em THREE VCRs still plugged in, taking power and giving me the time very reliably.

With 2 Tivos, when was the last time a VCR tape actually spun in one of these 3 decks? Over 3 years ago.

The tapes are loud, look like crap, and are unwieldy on the shelf. I don't even know where I buried the tapes.

Why don't DVD players display the time on the front? Then I could get rid of the clock/VCRs :-)

vcr with a hard drive (2, Interesting)

tritesnikov (808734) | about 9 years ago | (#13796667)

OK, so does anybody actually know of a device that's basically just the equivalent of a vcr with a hard drive? Sure, having the super duper tv guide on the tivo is cool, but it's not $15 a month cool.

What I would ideally like is just something that I can set my own programs for, just like a vcr, and it records them. Then, I can watch them later; just like a vcr, except with a hard drive. I can set the time on my own, thank you very much, and set up my own recording times. If the tivo box allowed me to do that without having to pay their stupid subscription fee, then I would have bought one already. Sure, I wouldn't have their tv guide and preference matching and all that fancy shit, but I really don't care. If the tivo box would just let me set some start and end times to record, they would have made some money off of me.

And please don't say mythTV. Sure, it's nice and cool and open source and teh shizit and all that, but if I could just buy a ready-made box with a decent small remote for ~$250 or less, that would be great. I don't want to spend over $500 for a computer that I have to do a bunch of install crap on (and possibly have to build), and then not have a decent remote control for it; and $500 is the lowest realistic amount for a computer that can handle the video feeds decently. No, a remote keyboard isn't an option since that's another $50 at least just for that and it's big and clunky and looks weird sitting in your living room. All I want is a box that works like a vcr, but records to a hard drive, and that's small and just sits on top of my tv and has a normal remote. No big computer boxes please.

So, does anybody actually know of such a device? They sure don't exist at best buy. All they have is tivo and tivo clones. Somebody help me.

Re:vcr with a hard drive (2, Interesting)

Harker (96598) | about 9 years ago | (#13796703)

Well...

There [solarpc.com] are a [d1.com.au] few [mythic.tv] companies doing just that. The prices are much more than 299 though. It would be cheaper to build it yourself, or even to find a friendly linux geek who will do it for kicks for you, or for a little bit of money.

You'd still have to put out for the parts.

I'm purchasing my own bits and pieces to build a MythTV box little by little. It does take some time, but I think it'll be worth it in the end.

H.

Re:vcr with a hard drive (1)

drsquare (530038) | about 9 years ago | (#13796816)

Wow, could Slashdotters BE any more out of touch with reality?

Re:vcr with a hard drive (1)

zakezuke (229119) | about 9 years ago | (#13796785)

OK, so does anybody actually know of a device that's basically just the equivalent of a vcr with a hard drive? Sure, having the super duper tv guide on the tivo is cool, but it's not $15 a month cool.

Why not go with a digital VHS deck or DVD recorder?

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0000ACY2B/104-22 47805-7425544?v=glance&n=172282&n=507846&s=electro nics&v=glance [amazon.com]
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B000 6GWIJO/qid=1129380861/sr=8-7/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i4_xgl 23/104-2247805-7425544?v=glance&s=electronics&n=50 7846 [amazon.com]

Re:vcr with a hard drive (1)

William_Lee (834197) | about 9 years ago | (#13796913)

Tivo will let you do this, at least the older version I have will. You can set it to record manually for a given amount of time on a given channel without paying any subscription fee. If that's all you want it for, just pick up an old one used on ebay or something. I'm sure you could get one incredibly cheap.

Somewhat premature... (1)

MaestroSartori (146297) | about 9 years ago | (#13796670)

...at least here in the UK where Tivo stopped selling hardware quite some time ago, and show no signs of starting again.

Which pisses me off, because I really want one, but a new one. Yeah, I can ebay an old one. Yeah, there's alternatives. But as far as I know the original is still supposed to be the best. I want it! :(

Re:Somewhat premature... (1)

makomk (752139) | about 9 years ago | (#13797064)

...at least here in the UK where Tivo stopped selling hardware quite some time ago, and show no signs of starting again.

Which pisses me off, because I really want one, but a new one. Yeah, I can ebay an old one. Yeah, there's alternatives. But as far as I know the original is still supposed to be the best. I want it! :(
I'm not sure you should bother. As I've said earlier, after the analog switchoff in a few years, it probably wouldn't be terribly useful. If you can get Freeview, you should probably hope that someone releases a Freeview PVR with a decent interface, etc (if there isn't one already). It's theoretically possible (MythTV is close) but I don't know if any company has achieved it - there are some Freeview "PVRs", but they sound like pretty basic hard-disc based recorders with an EPG.

DVD the true killer. (4, Insightful)

jbarr (2233) | about 9 years ago | (#13796684)

Some 97 million households still have at least one VCR...
But how many households actually use them? Yes, you can record with a VCR, so certainly the DVR has killed the VCR recording market, but it is the DVD player that has truely killed the VCR market--in a much greater way than TiVo.

That said, I simply couldn't live without my ReplayTV and Moxi DVRs!

-Jim
http://gmailtips.com/ [gmailtips.com]
http://jimstips.com/ [jimstips.com]

It wasn't a TiVo (2, Insightful)

dragon_imp (685750) | about 9 years ago | (#13796685)

My home theater PC with SageTV, 3 tuners and 800GB buried my VCRs.

death of tivo (1)

CDPatten (907182) | about 9 years ago | (#13796707)

Tivo charges too much, and with all the software coming out for PCS, Tivo is going to go by the way side.

The AMD beating Intel post noted something very interesting, the majoity of the sales were HP Windows Media Center PCs.

I think it would be fitting for Tivo to be burried next to WebTV.

Old news...in the UK at least (2, Insightful)

rklrkl (554527) | about 9 years ago | (#13796710)

As usual, this posting is heavily US-biased - for example, in the UK, Tivo no longer exists (they pulled out a couple of years ago) and DirectTV never existed. The largest electrical retailer in the UK, Dixons, pulled VCRs from its shelves over 9 months ago [bbc.co.uk] .

The bigger story is how mutiple brands of hard disk recorders (whether Sky+ bought with your digital satellite service or standalone units) and, to a lesser extent, DVD recorders are rapidly replacing VHS. I've found that DVD recorders offer little more than VHS recorders really - whilst you tend to have a higher quality picture and random access, it's also slower to actually start recording on a DVD recorder and the media is, ironically, less reliable than VHS (very susceptible to scratches for instance).

Whilst Tivo is right that hard disk recorders are ushering in the death of VHS, they've got a lot of competition, particularly outside the US, where Tivo seems to have no presence at all now. Also, don't forget Net downloading, which doesn't require an overpriced "Windows Media PC" to do it either.

Still very useful for professionals (2, Interesting)

25albert (874307) | about 9 years ago | (#13796713)

Despite it's terrible picture quality, VHS is still very useful for professionals during editing.

If you need to show the work in progress to someone, the fastest, cheapest and most reliable way is to output from your Final Cut/Avid to VHS.

Sure, you could make a DVD, but many editors don't know how to do that, and if they do know, they just don't have the time for it. The VHS is done in real time, and you can be sure there will be a player for it, and the tape will just play in it.

With a DVD, it will take at least twice the time of what you are recording, and maybe a lot more if you edit on older equipment, and you cannot even be really sure the disc will play on the DVD player that will be used. (I have received several self-made DVDs which play in my computer, but from which I get no sound out of my normal DVD player.)

Re:Still very useful for professionals (1)

TheRaven64 (641858) | about 9 years ago | (#13796748)

Outputting from Final Cut to DV tape is trivial. Outputting from Final Cut to DVD is two steps. Outputting from Final Cut to VHS is a royal PITA, and it's usually easier to go from Final Cut to DVD and then DVD to VHS. The only time I've had problems playing a home-made DVD was when I bought some cheap DVD-Rs from SCAN, which were slightly less reliable than a notebook made of toilet paper.

Re:Still very useful for professionals (1)

25albert (874307) | about 9 years ago | (#13796809)

Outputting from Final Cut to DV tape is trivial

Of course it is trivial. But it's useless. Who has a DV player at home/in the office? Nobody I know. They are only to be found in editing rooms. I'm in the offices of a distibutor right now. No DV player around, but plenty of VHS (and DVD) players.

Some producers may have a DV player in their own editing room, but that room is not available because someone is editing in it...

Outputting from Final Cut to VHS is a royal PITA

Why? Never heard that from any editor. As far as I know, they just connect the VHS to the analog output of the DV player, press "Rec", and go have a coffee. Of course it needs a DV deck which receives the FCP output (through FW), but I've never seen an editing room without one anyway.

It _can't_ be dead... (2, Funny)

MikTheUser (761482) | about 9 years ago | (#13796717)

...as long as Netcraft [netcraft.com] doesn't confirm it!

Publicity Stunts (4, Funny)

N8F8 (4562) | about 9 years ago | (#13796718)

Good thing you picked up the story or the idiot who came up with this publicity stunt would be out of a job.

Re:Publicity Stunts (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 years ago | (#13796733)

Lets just say that I went to this for my free tivo and the idiot who came up with it should be fired. They hired terrible actors to give a euelogy for the vcr and they actually read their lines ("I love my soaps..." "I love sports") . They made us sit through 15 minutes of this crap while some of the idiots getting the tivo actually started to fake cry so they could be recorded by the PR folks (by a tape no less, none of this new fangled digital) and then wait 2 hours in line to actually get the tivo. Its amazing the crap I'll go through for 50 bucks.

Tivo? What's that? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 years ago | (#13796724)

Sorry, I live in Canada. We don't know what Tivo is up here. Must be because Tivo won't sell any to us.

How ironic (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 years ago | (#13796826)

The DVR is alive and well, but with cable and satelite companies bundling DVR in their boxes, I would have predicted the death of Tivo.

Yeah, VCRs won't die (1)

CastrTroy (595695) | about 9 years ago | (#13796893)

VCRs won't die too soon. We still use ours for taping a lot of shows. There's a lot of racket about broadcast flags, and how maybe the Tivos of the future may not be able to record certain shows. Really, the VCR still does the job quite well, and i don't have to worry about them blocking shows.

VCR will live forever in PORN (1)

ccmay (116316) | about 9 years ago | (#13796962)

. . . not literally, but in the memory of those who were there for the porn revolution.

I will never forget the night I went to a friend's party and he had a tape of "Deep Throat" in his dad's new $750 VCR. We had never seen anything remotely like it; in fact, I knew hardly anyone who even had a VCR. Everyone was watching, including the girls. I remember going to a couple of "porno parties" later that year and watching "Debbie Does Dallas" while seated between two gorgeous, totally enthralled cheerleaders. Debauchery ensued; a night for the record books indeed.

Ah, for the good old days when porn was new and exciting and respectable, not pathetic and sweaty and solitary. You young slashdotters have no idea what I'm talking about...

-ccm

VCR is dead (1)

mazarin5 (309432) | about 9 years ago | (#13797073)

VCR is dead, netcraft confirms it!
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