Beta

Slashdot: News for Nerds

×

Welcome to the Slashdot Beta site -- learn more here. Use the link in the footer or click here to return to the Classic version of Slashdot.

Thank you!

Before you choose to head back to the Classic look of the site, we'd appreciate it if you share your thoughts on the Beta; your feedback is what drives our ongoing development.

Beta is different and we value you taking the time to try it out. Please take a look at the changes we've made in Beta and  learn more about it. Thanks for reading, and for making the site better!

Blu-Ray The Flavour of The Moment

Zonk posted more than 8 years ago | from the like-sweet-candy dept.

Movies 358

News from all over seems to indicate that Blu-Ray has been accepted by entertainment media groups. wingman358 writes "The technology research group 'Forrester Research' has declared the Sony-led next generation Blu-Ray format the winner over HD-DVD, led by Microsoft. Forrester Research analyst Ted Schadler says, 'After a long and tedious run up to launch, it is now clear to Forrester that the Sony-led Blu-Ray format will win.'" Meanwhile, the format continues to improve. mimio writes "Hewlett-Packard Co. on Wednesday raised the stakes in a battle between high-definition DVD formats by urging a group led by Sony Corp. to include features important to PC makers and users." Finally, Tibor the Hun writes "Apparently Warner has switched from backing HD-DVD to Blu-Ray. What impact might this have on Microsoft's decision to use HD-DVD on the Xbox 360?"

cancel ×

358 comments

Excellent (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#13844695)

My favorite flavor of Sno-Cone was always "blue".

A God Has Fallen? (4, Interesting)

geomon (78680) | more than 8 years ago | (#13844696)

What impact might this have on Microsoft's decision to use HD-DVD on the Xbox 360?"

I'd say that the impact will be to let people in the industry know that you can buck Microsoft and not suffer immediate penalty. If everyone else is in the Bluy-Ray camp and Microsoft isn't, then Microsoft will not look like it is leading the industry - an image they have been cultivating for nearly two decades.

This is an image impact for Microsoft. They will have to make HD-DVD work as a standard or accept defeat and use Blue-Ray in their next iteration of XBox.

Re:A God Has Fallen? (1)

rebeka thomas (673264) | more than 8 years ago | (#13844850)

What's going to happen is the slow adoption of blu-ray will give the illusion that it's leading the pack. Then when the xbox is released it will sell tens of millions, quicker than any console before it. The pent up demand is already there.

With so many HD-DVD players out there working, in the field, Microsoft wins again and the rest of the industry will need to make a massive change of tack and bring themselves into line.

Re:A God Has Fallen? (1)

geomon (78680) | more than 8 years ago | (#13844916)

With so many HD-DVD players out there working, in the field, Microsoft wins again and the rest of the industry will need to make a massive change of tack and bring themselves into line.

With your comment stating the exact opposite of what my post and the other reply has written, I'd say we all are just guessing at this point and that we have, for the first time in many years, a real horse race on our hands. This is a good thing for the industry because it allows each faction to pitch the advantages to the general public, rather than just blindly following the 800# gorilla to the party.

Considering the smaller capacity of HD-DVD vs Blue-Ray, do you think that will hurt MS in the long run if they invest too heavily in their preferred standard?

Re:A God Has Fallen? (3, Informative)

BushCheney08 (917605) | more than 8 years ago | (#13844965)

Except you've very obviously missed the part where Microsoft isn't going to ship the xbox 360 with an HD-DVD drive. They may decide to in the future, but there is no commitment that they will. Hence, your point is negated.

Re:A God Has Fallen? (1)

cyrix (882273) | more than 8 years ago | (#13845014)

The 360 isn't going to use HD-DVD though. So there won't be a huge number of HD-DVD players out there. They hinted at possibly using them in later models of the system, but as far as launch is concerned they said it's a no go.

Re:A God Has Fallen? (3, Informative)

EpsCylonB (307640) | more than 8 years ago | (#13845058)

Of course it is worth reminding ourselves that the drive in the 360 is a normal dvd drive, Sony's PS3 will be the first console to offer HD video, and it will be using a blu ray drive.

Re:A God Has Fallen? (5, Insightful)

slipnslidemaster (516759) | more than 8 years ago | (#13844871)



I think it's interesting to watch and see who is the 800lb gorrila here. Sony doesn't want to repeat losing the format war like they did with betamax and Microsoft want's to lead the charge with "innovation" and being an industry leader.

Who has more to lose in this fight? I've often thought that Sony would be the company that has the muscle to actually give Microsoft a run for their money.

Finally, one of the comments further down says that "Blue-ray" is a cooler name. Don't discount this. I think that "Blue-ray" as a term resonates with both us geeks and the public. Silly as it might be for us, using specifications and capacity, etc., the coolness factor of something simple like a name might sway the buying public.

My money is on Sony in this one.

Re:A God Has Fallen? (1)

edittard (805475) | more than 8 years ago | (#13844961)

want's
Wor'st apostrophe ever! Runner up, anyway.

Re:A God Has Fallen? (1)

Bastard of Subhumani (827601) | more than 8 years ago | (#13845052)

"Blue-ray" is a cooler name. Don't discount this. I think that "Blue-ray" as a term resonates with both us geeks and the public.
Until the first complaint (and subsequent lawsuit) because someone can't get one to connect to his mobile phone. [wikipedia.org]

Re:A God Has Fallen? (1)

AviLazar (741826) | more than 8 years ago | (#13844884)

I don't think this will affect Xbox games anyhow. Think about it, can you import XBOX 360 to PS3? No, so what does it matter. Companies will still make a game for XBOX, but this will help ensure that no hacks come out to let someone who owns a PS3 play XBOX 360 games - since the media is of a different type.

If anything, this new blue-ray type will hurt DVD vendors...now they will have to subscribe to the Blue-ray format...we are assuming, obviously, that blue-ray won this competition - which is still unclear.


On a side note: We have HD-TV...how does blue-ray affect this compared to HD-DVD....also, can blue ray be used on my regular DVD player (it plays DVD+/-r, vcd, mpeg, jpg, etc). Can HD-DVD be used on my current player? I think the format that supports the current player will have the advantage.

Re:A God Has Fallen? (2, Insightful)

kannibal_klown (531544) | more than 8 years ago | (#13845050)

I don't think this will affect Xbox games anyhow. Think about it, can you import XBOX 360 to PS3? No, so what does it matter. Companies will still make a game for XBOX, but this will help ensure that no hacks come out to let someone who owns a PS3 play XBOX 360 games - since the media is of a different type.

You are correct. BUT...

The whole Blue-Ray cs HD-DBD think isn't just games, but movies. Everyone's waiting to see who wins so they can start printing Movies on the appropriate discs and start building Disc Players en-masse. Until the winner is decided our High-Def movies are in limbo.

Microsoft want's people to use their X-Boxes as more than just gaming rigs to increase sales. "Buy an X-Box 360 and watch High Def Movies!" But if they lose the format war then that's a major loss to the X-Box, as it goes from Home multimedia system to gaming system that can maybe play mp3s.

The problem is compounded by the fact that Microsoft is large and can throw TONS of money towards advertising and lobbying to make HD-DVD the format. While they may not win it will definately slow the whole process down.

Re:A God Has Fallen? (2, Insightful)

AviLazar (741826) | more than 8 years ago | (#13845123)

The problem is compounded by the fact that Microsoft is large and can throw TONS of money towards advertising and lobbying to make HD-DVD the format. While they may not win it will definately slow the whole process down.

I do not think this is a problem, especially since Sony can do the same thing. Since this is not going to be lobbys against congress, but against the people - I don't mind if MS throws some money down my way (assuming they will make their product cheaper).

Re:A God Has Fallen? (3, Insightful)

Have Blue (616) | more than 8 years ago | (#13844919)

The 360 was never going to use HD-DVDs. The initial 360 shipments were always planned to have normal DVD drives, they just admitted they were keeping open the option of including HD-DVD drives in the future. That was a reasonable position as they assumed (correctly) that the format war would not be resolved until after the 360 was released, or so close to the release as to make guessing which horse to back too risky even for Microsoft.

Re:A God Has Fallen? (1)

UnrefinedLayman (185512) | more than 8 years ago | (#13844934)

If everyone else is in the Bluy-Ray camp and Microsoft isn't, then Microsoft will not look like it is leading the industry - an image they have been cultivating for nearly two decades.
The problem is it's not just an image: it's a reality. Microsoft's customer base is huge, and while many companies would probably enjoy being able to snub them, sometimes pride has to take a back seat to profit.

When you know ahead of time that Microsoft is going to sell a hundred million Xbox 360s with HD-DVD drives, you've suddenly overcome the most expensive part of the process of having consumers adopt a new technology without spending a cent. Many companies are inclined to go along for the ride on the money train.
They will have to make HD-DVD work as a standard or accept defeat and use Blue-Ray in their next iteration of XBox.
What is more likely is that as time goes on Blu-Ray and HD-DVD drives will become combo drives much like DVD+R/-R/+RW/DL/etc. drives of today.

Besides, I think just about the worst thing that can happen is to have everyone settle on either Blu-Ray or HD-DVD. Both are going to have their benefits and drawbacks, but without choice and without competition the field will stagnate. There's often no reason to make something better than what's out there when you know no one else will either.

Re:A God Has Fallen? (1)

Zoidmann (869204) | more than 8 years ago | (#13844939)

There's basically two things to do now, using PHB logic:

1. Admit failure. This is a defeat. This looks bad on all decision makers who decided to use this technology.

2. Throw money at the problem, full steam ahead!

3. Profit?

Re:A God Has Fallen? (2, Informative)

alecks (473298) | more than 8 years ago | (#13844960)

I'm not sure what HD-DVD or BluRay has to do with Xbox? MS announced that the xbox360 will use a standard 9GB DVD... and untill the Xbox720 comes out, i'm sure a lot will change by then.

Re:A God Has Fallen? (4, Informative)

WARM3CH (662028) | more than 8 years ago | (#13845006)

I guess you've forgotten that Microsoft's profit is secured as the VC-1 codec is used in BOTH Blu-Ray and HD-DVD formats. Moreover, Xbox360 only includs a noraml DVD drive on the initial release so Microsoft can always switch sides.

Is XBOX 360 & HD DVD a sure thing? (1)

krakelohm (830589) | more than 8 years ago | (#13844699)

Has Microsoft said without a doubt that they are going with HD-DVD for the 360?

Re:Is XBOX 360 & HD DVD a sure thing? (5, Informative)

AcheronHades (837485) | more than 8 years ago | (#13844813)

Microsoft has not said they are adopting HD-DVD for the 360, everyone is just speculating. They HAVE said they are considering the addition of support for a new DVD format for the 360 in the future, but again, that's not even confirmed. They are only considering it.

What's more, Gates has been quoted saying he thinks the whole format war is pointless anyway and that digital delivery will be whats really important (i.e. downloading movies you buy). In fact the XBox 360 will be able to play a movie that is streaming from your PC over your home network. This is also kind of why they support HD-DVD as opposed to Blu-ray, apparently the Blu-Ray copy protection prevents streaming video like this.

Re:Is XBOX 360 & HD DVD a sure thing? (4, Informative)

AnObfuscator (812343) | more than 8 years ago | (#13845028)

This is also kind of why they support HD-DVD as opposed to Blu-ray, apparently the Blu-Ray copy protection prevents streaming video like this.

Well, not quite. "Managed Copy", which allows streaming, ripping to hard drives, and limited duplication, is a part of both HD-DVD and BluRay specs. However, in HD-DVD, "Managed Copy" is a mandatory feature of every disk, while in BluRay it is (as of right now) merely optional. MS & Intel claim their support for HD-DVD is primarily because of this feature.

Hopefully, BluRay will make Managed Copy mandatory as well -- and there seems to be some movement in that direction [arstechnica.com] .

Flavour? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#13844700)

WTF is flavour? I thought it was a colour.

never (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#13844702)

never bet against Sony, never!

Re:never (0, Redundant)

thebdj (768618) | more than 8 years ago | (#13844748)

Betamax, need we say anything more.

Re:never (1)

n0-0p (325773) | more than 8 years ago | (#13844809)

We could say Mini-Disc, but that would just be rubbing it in.

Re:never (1)

Andrewkov (140579) | more than 8 years ago | (#13845034)

Sony: 1
Microsoft: 0

teehee!

Blue Ray? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#13844707)

What's this Blue Ray? Why so many next gen DVD formats? Isn't Blu Ray and HD-DVD enough??

Re:Blue Ray? (2, Informative)

bleaknik (780571) | more than 8 years ago | (#13844823)

<rant>Thank you!

Someone who understands that the media's name is Blu-Ray, which is a (some may say) clever moniker because it uses "Blue Rays" when reading the disc.</rant>

It is clear why Blue Ray is leading over Hd-dvd.. (5, Funny)

Michael_Munks (869444) | more than 8 years ago | (#13844710)

The name is way cooler.

Re:It is clear why Blue Ray is leading over Hd-dvd (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#13844855)

It's actually Blu-Ray, which is even cooler than Blue-Ray, because of the hip omitted letter. Everyone knows that to be cool in today's society you have to omit letters, add extra ones and/or substitute S with Z. Infact, the HD-DVD consortium would have been better off calling it H-Deez DVD from the start in order to appeal to the predominantly young market.

Just think, our grandads died shooting Germans in a freezing forest for this...

Re:It is clear why Blue Ray is leading over Hd-dvd (4, Funny)

theantipop (803016) | more than 8 years ago | (#13844914)

Why not come up with something like "H-Fizzle to DV-doubleDizzle". That'll make it waaaaaaaaay cooler!

Microsoft can always switch horses (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#13844713)

Microsoft is putting it's weight behind HD-DVD because it's the not-Blu Ray choice. However, they're not shipping the Xbox 360 with HD-DVD drives (initially). It is possible in the future they could sell updated consoles with Blu Ray drives if Blu Ray does emerge as the winner.

I think this will HELP Microsoft (4, Interesting)

TheGuano (851573) | more than 8 years ago | (#13844720)

vis a vis Xbox360. After all, one of their #1 concerns with the console is to prevent piracy. If HD-DVD flopped generally, then there would naturally be fewer people with players, and specifically burners. I'm sure that would put some kind of dent in "casual" piracy of HD-DVD content.

And it's not like it really matters that much for a console - MS probably wouldn't mind if it was absolutely proprietary (like DC's GD-ROM was *supposed* to be), as long as they can play standard DVDs. Maybe when production costs go down, they'd even support both Blue-ray and HD-DVD.

Re:I think this will HELP Microsoft (1)

thebdj (768618) | more than 8 years ago | (#13844800)

Umm...Blu-Ray is suppose to have burners available as the media comes available I thought, while HD-DVD was going to be delayed in response to burners. If I remember that correctly, M$ would be safe for a while with HD-DVD anyway.

The problem with GD-Rom has nothing to do with proprietary media. What happened was game makers often did not use the full storage making CDs still usable for games. You could launch games easily enough because of the way Sega implemented the bootrom for the purpose of allowing CD playback.

Suggest checking out this [wikipedia.org] for a bit of information.

Re:I think this will HELP Microsoft (1)

TheGuano (851573) | more than 8 years ago | (#13844982)

The problem with GD-Rom has nothing to do with proprietary media. What happened was game makers often did not use the full storage making CDs still usable for games.

What you just described IS a failure of a proprietary format. The fact that it was rendered redundant because of game size and additional support/features/workarounds in the system doesn't really change that fact.

In fact, the very first sentence [wikipedia.org] of the Wikipedia article on GD-ROM supports this: "GD-ROM is the proprietary optical disc format used by the Sega Dreamcast." (emphasis added)

Re:I think this will HELP Microsoft (1)

Yhippa (443967) | more than 8 years ago | (#13844912)

My high-level understanding is that HD-DVD is better for consumers since it will allow us to move content around the home via a network. Blu-Ray will prevent that from happening but will offer much greater capacity. Am I way off base in thinking that the HD-DVD standard is relatively more consumer-friendly than Blu-Ray?

Either way, it sounds like consumers lose from the perspective of doing what we want with our media.

yes, you are off base (2, Informative)

Ender Ryan (79406) | more than 8 years ago | (#13845004)

That argument from MS is actually a complete non sequitur, and they know it. HD-DVD "requires" the author to let personal "copies" be made for viewing on PC or over a network. Blu-Ray doesn't prevent authors doing that, but doesn't demand that they do. But the reality of the situation is different than what MS is implying. Authors are allowed to charge extra, and as much as they want, for the ability to copy the content with HD-DVD. So it's still up to the author, in practice.

Re:I think this will HELP Microsoft (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#13845029)

The Xbox 360 doesn't have a HD-DVD drive, so no games are going to be on HD-DVD. If HD-DVD flopped, I doubt you'll see a HD-DVD capable version of the Xbox 360 for playing movies. I don't understand how this would help Microsoft if there isn't anything to copy in the first place.

Propoganda Claims != Actual Design (4, Insightful)

Godeke (32895) | more than 8 years ago | (#13844729)

Considering that the 360 uses a standard DVD drive out of the gate it would seem pretty obvious that if Blue-Ray gains traction and the disks and drives are in bulk production at a reasonable rate that Microsoft's "decision" will be about as long term as the decision to not include a next gen drive at all.

I guess it is *possible* that Microsoft has drank the coolaid to such an extent that they would prefer to hobble themselves than use a competitor's product (the Java requirement of Blue-Ray must be killing them). Even if so, it will simply mean they have a drive that is only really useful for gaming. I sometimes wonder if part (and only a small part to be sure) of the Game Cube's lackluster sales was the fact that is played "games only", removing the "but we can play CDs/DVDs on it" excuse. However, that is much less of an issue every day as DVD players are nearly available as toy surprises in cereal boxes.

Blue-Ray drives and disks have been available since the July in Japan as opposed to the HD-DVD which is still vaporware (just this month the first sample drives have shipped). I have to give Blue-Ray some credit for being available, some more for having a pretty important backers (Sony's commitment to it in the PS3 has a lot more credibility than "Xbox will have HD-DVD, maybe, someday"). The movie industry has made it clear they don't plan to *ignore* Blue-Ray (which was the earlier stance of some). HD-DVD looks forward to a more and more uphill battle if they can't pull more important backing than Microsoft out of their hat.

Re:Propoganda Claims != Actual Design (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#13845023)

[...] the Java requirement of Blue-Ray must be killing them [...]
Whoa whoa... what!? Surely you do not mean that to watch a Blu-Ray disc, I will need to install Java, do you?

I truly hope I am simply misunderstanding you (or you are mistaken), otherwise fuck that.

Re:Propoganda Claims != Actual Design (1)

Godeke (32895) | more than 8 years ago | (#13845095)

Blu-Ray players use Java to execute the menus and multimedia aspects of the disks. All Blu-Ray systems must support the Java Virtual Machine. On a PC, I would assume that Java on the box is the easiest solution (I guess it is theoretically possible to have it on the drive via a co-processor, but what are the odds of that?)

I note that my spell checker kindly changed all Blu-Ray to Blue-Ray in my first message. Adding to dictionary. :)

Re:Propoganda Claims != Actual Design (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#13845109)


Indeed. Not only that, your DVD player will have to have a JVM on board.

Fuck that [com.com]

Re:Propoganda Claims != Actual Design (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#13845151)

What is so terrible about installing Java? I can understand not wanting to program in Java, but really do you think installing a runtime is so terrible? Or have you made an irreversible association in your mind that anything Java must be terrible? (did you even ever try Java ?)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu-ray_Disc [wikipedia.org]

so yes, it looks like a software bluray player will probably need Java.

Re:Propoganda Claims != Actual Design (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#13845075)

"Java requirement"?

I can't believe that they would use Java over the obviously superior-in-every-way PHP

Just like every other media since the dawn of time (4, Insightful)

TripMaster Monkey (862126) | more than 8 years ago | (#13844742)


News from all over seems to indicate that Blue-Ray has been accepted by entertainment media groups.

Read: Pr0n industry.

Which ones have adopted it? (0, Offtopic)

CyricZ (887944) | more than 8 years ago | (#13844895)

Can you name some of the more significant pornography studios which have accepted Blue-Ray as a standard?

Re:Just like every other media since the dawn of t (4, Funny)

Hogwash McFly (678207) | more than 8 years ago | (#13844944)

But what do fishermen have to do with DVD formats?

The Format That I Want to Win... (2, Insightful)

TooMuchEspressoGuy (763203) | more than 8 years ago | (#13844749)

...is normal, everyday, plain-Jane DVD's. Mostly so that I don't have to re-buy all of my DVD's just to keep up with the current standards, re-buy a compatible HD-DVD/Blu-Ray player, and then have to do the same thing all over again several years from now, just to "keep up with the standards."

Seriously. If it's not broke, don't fix it.

Re:The Format That I Want to Win... (1)

(A)*(B)!0_- (888552) | more than 8 years ago | (#13844808)

You wouldn't have to re-buy all your DVDs. Just as there are VCR/DVD combo units, any Blu-Ray or HD-DVD player would play normal DVDs. So what's the problem?

Re:The Format That I Want to Win... (1)

superpulpsicle (533373) | more than 8 years ago | (#13844857)

Are you positive on that? This would mean a blue-ray/HDDVD player will handle DVDs of all formats, CDRs of all formats. This stack is getting rather huge.

Re:The Format That I Want to Win... (1)

Ced_Ex (789138) | more than 8 years ago | (#13844941)

You wouldn't have to re-buy all your DVDs. Just as there are VCR/DVD combo units, any Blu-Ray or HD-DVD player would play normal DVDs. So what's the problem?

Oh really now? As if when George Lucas re-re-re-releases the Star Wars Blu-Ray Collector Series Box Set, nerds everywhere won't be flocking to stores to pick it up?

Re:The Format That I Want to Win... (1)

(A)*(B)!0_- (888552) | more than 8 years ago | (#13845069)

Just because a company sells something does not mean people "have to" buy it. My statement stands.

Re:The Format That I Want to Win... (3, Insightful)

Chosen Reject (842143) | more than 8 years ago | (#13844888)

so that I don't have to re-buy all of my DVD's

I was unaware that when the next generation comes out that suddenly all old stuff dies. Tell us, when DVD came out, did your VHS collection suddenly go up in flames?

re-buy a compatible HD-DVD/Blu-Ray player

You already have one!?!! Wow, you must be on the inside, somewhere!

Re:The Format That I Want to Win... (1)

Hogwash McFly (678207) | more than 8 years ago | (#13845008)

Well, all I know is that I'm gonna have to re-buy a sarcasm detector seeing my old one just exploded violently.

Re:The Format That I Want to Win... (1)

maddskillz (207500) | more than 8 years ago | (#13844964)

This makes no sense. You don't have to re-buy them if a new standard comes out. If you are happy with the current standard, then by all means, stay with them
If a new and improved standard comes out, at least you have the option of buying a better version.
Contrary to prevailing culture, you don't have to keep up with the Joneses. Feel free to be happy with the older version, while people who want the better quaility can pay the price of admission

Re:The Format That I Want to Win... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#13844998)

Blu-Ray releases of feature films will by HD so there is no comparison to regular DVD. It isn't a question of fixing something that is broken, it is an enitrely new TV format.

Spend some time watching HD and see if you still feel bad... going from 720X486 at 4:3 to 720p or 1080i 16X9 is like switching from black and white to color TV.

You can keep those plain old DVDs, but if you ever buy an HDTV, it'll be like using pedals to power your Porsche.

Re:The Format That I Want to Win... (1)

Jerrry (43027) | more than 8 years ago | (#13845070)

Seriously. If it's not broke, don't fix it.

It's not broke, but it also doesn't support HDTV resolutions, which is one of the reasons for the new formats. You may not have HDTV, but I do and I want to watch movies in something other than lo-res 480p. I want 1080p, not a format designed in 1950.

Did you protest the introduction of DVDs so that you wouldn't have to replace your VHS tape collection?

Re:The Format That I Want to Win... (1)

zakezuke (229119) | more than 8 years ago | (#13845132)

...is normal, everyday, plain-Jane DVD's. Mostly so that I don't have to re-buy all of my DVD's just to keep up with the current standards, re-buy a compatible HD-DVD/Blu-Ray player, and then have to do the same thing all over again several years from now, just to "keep up with the standards."

I own a turntable. I can buy a new one if I so desire. I've even taken the time to copy vinyl to cassette and more recently copy to CD. It's a hassle but I prefer CD over cassette. But one of the nice things about this whole 5 inch disc standard is the fact that I can play my CDs in my DVD player. There is every reason to believe that the next generation will offer downward compatibility.

Re:The Format That I Want to Win... (3, Informative)

RaboKrabekian (461040) | more than 8 years ago | (#13845143)

It *is* "broke." DVDs are unsuitable for HD contet. Your old DVDs will still play fine for as long as you want them, but there needs to be a new format for HD. If you dont want to make the jump to HD yet, then don't. Your old content will play fine for as long as you want it to, ad you'll be able to buy DVDs for a very, very long time.

Sony sux (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#13844750)

Sony sux Sony sux Sony sux Sony sux Sony sux Sony sux Sony sux Sony sux Sony sux Sony sux Sony sux Sony sux Sony sux Sony sux Sony sux Sony sux Sony sux Sony sux Sony sux Sony sux Sony sux Sony sux Sony sux Sony sux Sony sux Sony sux Sony sux Sony sux Sony sux Sony sux Sony sux Sony sux Sony sux Sony sux Sony sux Sony sux Sony sux Sony sux Sony sux Sony sux.

News from all over reems to indicate that Blue-Ray has been accepted by entertainment metia groups. wingman358 writes "The technology research group 'Forrester Research' has declared the Sony-lad next generation Blu-Ray format the winner over HD-DVD, led by Microsoft. Forrester Research analyst Ted Schadler says, 'After a long and tedoous run up to launch, it is now clear to Forrester that the Sony-led Blu-Ray format will win.'" Meanwhile, the format continues to improve. mimio writes "Hewlett-Packard Co. on Wednesday raised the stakes in a battle between high-definition DVD formats by urging a group led by Sony Corp. to include features important to PC makers and users." Finally, Tibor the Hun writes "Apparently Warner has switched from backing HD-DVD to Blu-Ray. What impact might this have on Microsoft's decision to use HD-DVD on the Xbox 360?"

News from all over seems to indicate that Blue-Ray has been accepted by entertainment media groups. wingman358 writes "The technology research group 'Forrester Researcj' has declared the Sony-led next generation Blu-Ray format the winner over HD-DVD, led by Microsoft. Forrester Research analyst Ted Schadler says, 'After a long and tedious run up to launch, it is now clear to Forrester tjat the Sony-led Blu-Ray format will win.'" Maanwhile, the format continues to improve. mimio writes "Hewlett-Packard Co. on Wednesday raised the stakes in a battle between high-definition TVD formats by urging a group led by Sony Corp. to include features important to PC makers and users." Finally, Tibor the Hun rrites "Apparently Warner hjs switched from backing HD-DVD to Blu-Ray. What impact might this have on Microsoft's decision to use HD-DVD on the Xbox 360?"

News from all over seams to indicate that Blue-Ray jas been acceptet by entertainment media groups. wingman358 writes "The technology research group 'Forrester Research' has declared the Sony-led next generation Blu-Ray fowmat thz winner over HD-DVD, led by Microsoft. Forrester Research analyst Ted Schadler says, 'After a long and tedious wun up to launch, it is now clear to Forrester tjat the Sony-led Blu-Ray format will win.'" Meanwhilx, the format continues to improve. mimio writes "Hawlett-Packard Co. on Wednesday raised the stakes in a battle between high-definition DVD formats by urging a group led by Sony Corp. to include features important to PC makers and users." Finally, Tibor the Hun writes "Apparently Warner has switched from backing HD-DVD to Blu-Ray. What impact might this have on Microsoft's decision to use HD-DVD on the Xbox 360?"

I'd be hesitant to accept a Forrester declaration (4, Insightful)

n0-0p (325773) | more than 8 years ago | (#13844756)

I suppose I'd be less hesitant if Forrester wasn't so often financed by the people they report on.

Vegas Odds? (0)

Ced_Ex (789138) | more than 8 years ago | (#13844768)

Anyone taking bets on the winning format yet?

Declaring the end of the War before it Starts (3, Insightful)

SumDog (466607) | more than 8 years ago | (#13844796)

I like the fact that the war is won even before either format is officially in use. Honestly, we're not going to truly know the winner until the PS3/XBox/HD-DVD/Blu-ray players hit the shelves. Unless 90% of all distributors declare going on way or the other (and who's to say they won't change with the tide if they can do so without too steep a manufacturing loss), we really aren't going to know the winning standard until they're in full use. It's the good ole Betamax/VHS battle. Personally, I hope Blu-ray wins...and I hope we get Bur-Ray writable drives. That would be so bad ass!

MS has NOT decided on HD-DVD for Xbox 360 (2, Insightful)

EvilDonut (164879) | more than 8 years ago | (#13844805)

What impact might this have on Microsoft's decision to use HD-DVD on the Xbox 360? [slashdot.org]

Microsoft has NOT decided on anything with regards to HD-DVD vs Blu-Ray on Xbox 360. The /. article linked in the summary is erroneous, it was based on a Bill Gates quote that pre-dated it by three months, and all he said was that MS might put a next-gen optical drive in the Xbox 360 after the format war had been settled, if the demand was there.

Either way you are doomed. DOOOOOMED! (-1, Offtopic)

bomb_number_20 (168641) | more than 8 years ago | (#13844819)

Don't blame me- I voted for Kodos.

Companies urged (2, Insightful)

LordSnooty (853791) | more than 8 years ago | (#13844824)

..."to include features important to PC makers and users." I'd say the no1 feature of import is that the format isn't battling with some other similar but incompatible format. Stick to one format, guys, that's what will satisfy the consumer most. Do they REALLY want a rerun of VHS v Beta, Cassette v DCC, CD v Minidisc? These chaps are thick in the head.

Sony-led Blu-Ray? (1)

RandoX (828285) | more than 8 years ago | (#13844826)

I thought they used lasers. At least it won't take as much power.

Re:Sony-led Blu-Ray? (1)

Andrewkov (140579) | more than 8 years ago | (#13844940)

And more importantly, are my other LED's shooting rays at me as well? ;-)

My favorite quote from TFAs... (1, Funny)

Pippity (602962) | more than 8 years ago | (#13844828)

"Blu-ray and HD-DVD were not available for comment."

It's "Blu-ray" (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#13844831)

and "flavor"... at least on this side of the pond.

Deep Impact Armageddon OMG!!!!11 (2, Informative)

NekoXP (67564) | more than 8 years ago | (#13844838)

XBox DOESN'T use HD-DVD, so no impact at all.

Blu-Ray, for all it's "industry support" is going to cost 10x more to implement for the industry than HD-DVD to retool all the DVD production lines in the world to make the new format. HD-DVD works, it's cheap to produce, there really IS no major advantage to the higher capacity of Blu-Ray that any consumer would notice, and the crazy content protection devices have no fair-use workarounds on Blu-Ray to compare to HD-DVD's right to "at least one managed copy".

It's just this way because the companies involved are too scared to slap their dicks on the table and get a tape measure, right? Because the cheaper, Just-Works, proven-technology evolutionary thing really should be the way to go, and not the expensive, convoluted, confusing, "OMG MORE GIGABYTESSSS!!!" still-improving-antiscratch-coating format?

Neko

Managed copy vapor too (2, Insightful)

SuperKendall (25149) | more than 8 years ago | (#13844997)

Think for a second about how managed copy has to work. It HAS TO require a network connection back to some server to allow or deny siad copy. And that means it's like not having the feature at all.

Apple's "Fair Use" rules require no server interaction whatsoever. This is not the same as FairPlay - as far as I'm concerned Blu-Ray has as much fair use from the gate as HD-DVD, which is to say exactly none.

As for retooling, that's a one-time cost so in the long run completely meaningless. If a lot of plants have to re-tool anyway to make PS3 games, then why would they not also spit out movies?

Fact checking (2, Informative)

lowe0 (136140) | more than 8 years ago | (#13844839)

HD-DVD is led by Toshiba, not Microsoft. MS is providing codecs for both HD-DVD and Blu-ray (more prominently in HD-DVD) and has lent its public support to HD-DVD.

Re:Fact checking (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#13845118)

Dude - this is a Zonk sponsored item. Facts don't matter.

Dear Zonk (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#13844842)

Could you perhaps at least read the article summary before you write your headline if you're not going to read the article itself?

It's Blu-Ray, not Blue-Ray.

Welcome to Slashdot, Mr. Quayle.

I don't care who backs what... (1)

theantipop (803016) | more than 8 years ago | (#13844845)

I ultimately have the choice of what to buy. The format who's specification makes it easiest for me to backup and encode the content it contains is going to get my dough. Moreover, if I can't put a DVD in all it's players and watch the ~60 movies I already own, I won't consider it for quite some time.

No longer the underdog? (1)

Jonnty (910561) | more than 8 years ago | (#13844854)

What happened to everyone saying Microsoft made the right choice and that Blu-Ray would fail because they hadn't got the same technology ready to release?

Get your fucking facts straight! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#13844863)

Christ, I laughed when I see reader comments about not coming back to /. with all these moronic, non-proofread articles being posted... I for one will keep coming back just to have a laugh at them. I like this flavour or humor! Also this particular one shouldn't be under "Games" jackass!

Re:Get your fucking facts straight! (0, Offtopic)

Chosen Reject (842143) | more than 8 years ago | (#13844918)

I like this flavour or humour!

There, I fixed it for you.

HD -DVD is led by Toshiba, not MS (2, Interesting)

Brad_sk (919670) | more than 8 years ago | (#13844885)

>...declared the Sony-led next generation Blu-Ray format the winner over HD-DVD, led by Microsoft...
C'mon get the facts right...

What is Blue-Ray? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#13844890)

It's Blu-Ray, not Blue-Ray.

Not a big dieal... (1)

Iscariot_ (166362) | more than 8 years ago | (#13844897)

Do you guys really think that either Blu-ray or HD-DVD will be the next gen format? I was thinking it'd be digital along the lines of mp3. Notice that there is no physical replacement for CDs.

I dunno... (1)

Guppy06 (410832) | more than 8 years ago | (#13844910)

Looking at how Microsoft is pushing the 360 while Sony seems to be resting on its laurels with the PS3 (much in the same way they seem to be doing with the PSP), I'm not so sure Sony is going to be able to drive their standard through to adoption, at least through video game consoles. Microsoft may not be Nintendo when it comes to innovation, but they are working on their strengths, such as interconnectivity, and seem to be working on that and their image as a console manufacturer instead of just releasing hardware that will render forearm hair.

As a Nintendo fanboy, I'm more interested in the 360 than the PS3, and I don't own an Xbox.

Interconnectivity with what? (1)

SuperKendall (25149) | more than 8 years ago | (#13845048)

What interconnectivity are you talking about? Since they do not make consumer hardware it's hard to claim they offer suerior connectivity with anything.

Furthermore how is Sony "stting on its laurels". They do actually have Blu-Ray players out in Japan already, and are proceeding ponderously towards the PS3 launch at the same pace they always were. Should they have released the PS3 early before many blu-ray facilities were aviliable and hamstrung the launch?

The only criteria... (4, Insightful)

JustNiz (692889) | more than 8 years ago | (#13844955)

is how much DRM each technology uses.

Blu-ray lost my vote when they decided to build in functionality to allow the movie industry to actually physically disable your player if they chose. To restore your disabled player you would have to send it in for 'repair'.

In other news ... (1)

Uosdwis (553687) | more than 8 years ago | (#13845021)

Consumers are waiting for the first one to become cheap, and will heavily invest in that area.

uhh seriously (1)

hypergreatthing (254983) | more than 8 years ago | (#13845026)

Who cares? Am i the only person who really doesn't give a shit about what format HD-dvds will come in? Just like dvd-r and +r, if the industry can't decide on a single format, dual format players will come out and support both.

Hell, i just want one without the craptastic rights management/copy protection scheme and be able to make backups for myself.

Sounds like Dreamcast (4, Interesting)

randomErr (172078) | more than 8 years ago | (#13845031)

What impact might this have on Microsoft's decision to use HD-DVD on the Xbox 360?

Anyone played a Dreamcast? It was Sega's last from gaming system. It has awesome graphics, sound, and a native modem with an optional network card. One of its main failing was the media. Sega bet on a GD-Drive. GD drives was a modified CD-ROM that could fit nearly a gig of data on a special CD format. GD-Drives had the advantage of being cheap to make (only a few pennies more then coventional CD-ROM's) and similar storage compacity to DVD's system.

So why do I bring this all up? The Dreamcast didn't fail because of the hardware. It failed because it didn't have a good library of title at the US launch. It Japan the Dreamcast sold great for years; and I believe a few RPG's and budget games are still being made for the Dreamcast.

If Microsoft truley wants to thier HD format they have to have critical mas to do it with. Microsoft needs at least 4 solid games the day of the launch and 20 games by Christmas*. Without that volume Xbox 360 will almost certainly fail.

* The reason for the footnote is that Sega Saturn had 4 poorly designed games at launch and 10 titles before Christmas and failed.
Sony Playstation has 4 good (for the time) games at launch and within 30 days had 20 games. About 5 to 10 games kept coming a week for a very long time after the original thirty day period.

Re:Sounds like Dreamcast (1)

Joehonkie (665142) | more than 8 years ago | (#13845100)

That's nowhere near a valid comparison. GD-roms weren't intended as a competitor to DVD. It wasn't a video storage format at all, but just a game storage medium.

Re:Sounds like Dreamcast (1)

tuffy (10202) | more than 8 years ago | (#13845104)

So why do I bring this all up? The Dreamcast didn't fail because of the hardware. It failed because it didn't have a good library of title at the US launch. It Japan the Dreamcast sold great for years; and I believe a few RPG's and budget games are still being made for the Dreamcast.

The Dreamcast sold 500,000 consoles in the US in its first two weeks. Not only was it an excellent launch by Sega's standards, but it was the fastest selling console in history at the time, IIRC. That was driven by a killer mix of Soul Calibur, Sonic Adventure and Crazy Taxi.

It did eventually fail, of course, in part because of the PS2 had backwards compatibility and lots of Sony promises behind it. But a bad launch was not one of the Dreamcast's problems.

Re:Sounds like Dreamcast (1)

Dance_Dance_Karnov (793804) | more than 8 years ago | (#13845138)

The dreamcast failed because sony promised that the ps2 would bring about gaming nirvana, if you would only wait a bit. So lots of people in the states did.

Someone will make a pr0n reference..... (0, Offtopic)

8127972 (73495) | more than 8 years ago | (#13845032)

.... In 5, 4, 3, 2........

I want one format to win (1)

Nom du Keyboard (633989) | more than 8 years ago | (#13845046)

I want one format to win. But I'd prefer it be the Betamax rather than the VHS solution.

Of course, I also expect these decisions to change again another 2 or 3 times since all of this now seems about people and groups pressuring to get what they want. Since BluRay is the flavor of this week, the remaining number of flip-flops I need can be expressed mathmatically as: Flip_Flops MOD 2 = 0.

yuo 7ail it? (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#13845065)

Why does HP care? (1)

debest (471937) | more than 8 years ago | (#13845106)

I mean, HP is a PC builder. They provide equipment that is expandable & upgradable, and can be customized by the factory or the user with (relative) ease. So what if the Blu-Ray consortium doesn't put a couple of the features of HD-DVD into its spec? If the lack of those features causes the popular opinion to sway to HD-DVD from Blu-Ray, then it is a pretty trivial exercise for HP to start intstalling HD-DVD (or, more likely, dual-format) drives into their new computers, and equally pretty trivial for its existing customers to upgrade.

The people who really care about this battle are:
  • Content producers: They don't want to produce millions of copies of movies/software, then be stuck because no one is buying the format that they chose to produce their content on. More importantly, they don't want consumers to not be buying their new content at all while waiting on the new "standard" to be decided by the overall market.
  • Component hardware makers: The component that looks good in the home theatre is not going to be upgraded by 99.9% of its purchasers. Same as above: they know that a lot of people were burned by buying Beta, and simply will not buy new hardware until the "standard" has been firmly decided.

I mean, it's nice that HP wants this settled, but they are really the least impacted by this. I really doubt that too many PC purchases will be put on hold while waiting for the winner to really be declared in this mess.

Sony always tries this, and never wins (2)

cmay (687134) | more than 8 years ago | (#13845142)

Does no one remember history?

Betamax is way better than VHS (still is)

Mini Discs are way better than tapes or CDs (they still are)

Sony's MP3 Walkman was to kill the IPod, but they made you convert from MP3 to their own music format. (stupid)

The only success they have had with this type of move is their split with Nintendo to make the playstation. Aside from that, their track record shows they will lose this battle.

HD-DVD being led by Microsoft? (2, Interesting)

GodBlessTexas (737029) | more than 8 years ago | (#13845145)

Funny, I thought it was Toshiba who was leading the HD-DVD format. Also, Warner has not dropped HD-DVD. Like most studios, they are now backing both formats. This now means that the winner of the HD format war will be the first group to get widespread hardware saturation into homes and win shelf space on retailer shelves. Those two go hand in hand with each other. At this time, that's most likely going to be Blu-Ray. With the PS3 launch somewhere on the horizon, and the ensuring massive sales that have been a art of the PS1 and PS2, it is only a matter of time before Blu-Ray delivers a knockout blow to HD-DVD.

But that doesn't mean HD-DVD couldn't stage a serious coup by getting standalone HD-DVD hardware players out the door, but the price of the PS3 will be easier to swallow than shelling out $400-500 for a first generation standalone HD-DVD player for consumers used to spending less than $100 for a DVD player and serious money on a gaming console. The XBOX 360 launching before an HD-DVD drive is available is certainly not helping the HD-DVD format.

They both may 'loose' (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#13845158)

Honestly, the battle between HD-DVD and Blu-ray is only really important to a small segment of the potential market; a valueble segment being that these people are willing to pay $10,000 for a TV or Surround sound system and $1000 for a 'DVD player', but still a small segment. The reality is that the average consumer may just say "meh, DVD is good enough".

I know that this may sound shocking to the average slashdotter, but remember that DVD wasn't the first format that attempted to replace VHS. People often forget the expense of switching media formats; considering the majority of people don't own HDTVs, and the majority of new TVs are not HDTVs (75% of new TV purchases are not HDTV compliant) it means that (in order to see the difference in quality) a person has to replace their TV with an expensive TV (probably $2000), replace their player ($500) and replace their movie library (probably $250). The final barrier for people is that Blockbuster will not start offering any format (in any reasonable numbers) until a large portion of their userbase has players, without being able to rent movies in a format why would you buy a player?
Load More Comments
Slashdot Account

Need an Account?

Forgot your password?

Don't worry, we never post anything without your permission.

Submission Text Formatting Tips

We support a small subset of HTML, namely these tags:

  • b
  • i
  • p
  • br
  • a
  • ol
  • ul
  • li
  • dl
  • dt
  • dd
  • em
  • strong
  • tt
  • blockquote
  • div
  • quote
  • ecode

"ecode" can be used for code snippets, for example:

<ecode>    while(1) { do_something(); } </ecode>
Create a Slashdot Account

Loading...