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A Closer Look at SUSE 10

ScuttleMonkey posted about 9 years ago | from the long-way-from-netware dept.

SuSE 269

SilentBob4 writes to tell us that MadPenguin is running a review of the recently released SUSE 10.0. From the review: "Novell has made some interesting changes in distribution and development since our last review of SUSE Linux. Many say it's for the better and I'd say I'm inclined to go with that theory. To tell you the truth, I never thought I'd see the day SUSE opened up it's doors to the community to help expand and concert development efforts, but here we are in a world where SUSE is open and still making geeks sweat every time a new release comes out"

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im.. (-1, Troll)

NoGuffCheck (746638) | about 9 years ago | (#13868024)

sweating like a paedo in toys r us.

Ubuntu sucks (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 years ago | (#13868035)

Suse == real ultimate german superiority

Ubuntu == multicultural nigger-worshipping bullshit

Gentoo == L4m0rz OS

Mac OX X == fucking gay

Windows ME == pretty cool

Windows XP == bestest evar

Debian == ZZZ

We're offering Suse 10.0 on dedicated root servers (-1, Offtopic)

Harry Balls (799916) | about 9 years ago | (#13868045)

...at $45 per month.

While the website still says "Suse 9.3", the customer has a choice of Fedora Core 4, Debian 3.1 as well as Suse 9.3 and Suse 10.0

Re:We're offering Suse 10.0 on dedicated root serv (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 years ago | (#13868083)

I'll bite...

Do you allow torrent trackers?
What is the cost if I want more than 80GB storage?
Physical dedicated server or virtual with something like Xen?
Any port/network restrictions?
Anything prohibited besides what's listed on the Legal page?

Thanks.

Re:We're offering Suse 10.0 on dedicated root serv (0, Offtopic)

Harry Balls (799916) | about 9 years ago | (#13868284)

>allow torrent trackers
No.

>more than 80GB storage
Not immediately - what are your needs?

>Physical dedicated server or...
Physical dedicated server.

>port/network restrictions
No.

>prohibited besides what's listed
No, but the "prohibited" list is subject to change at any time.
In case an observed use violates the updated "prohibited" list, we simply will not renew the lease agreement once it comes up for renewal.

Re:We're offering Suse 10.0 on dedicated root serv (1)

Danger Stevens (869074) | about 9 years ago | (#13868493)

A better question: why are you using exclusively Pentium-M's for your servers? Is this an array of high-latency laptops?

You're offering spam (1, Offtopic)

rebug (520669) | about 9 years ago | (#13868118)

I can't wait to tell my boss about the sweet deal Harry Balls can get us.

Re:This sounds like a porn offering... (-1, Flamebait)

Coldglow (846952) | about 9 years ago | (#13868174)

Harry Balls is offering Suse for $45 bucks. I think thats what Bill Clinton did with his interns.

Re:This sounds like a porn offering... (-1, Troll)

Richard Dick Head (803293) | about 9 years ago | (#13868232)

Hi! The name's Richard Head. Call me Dick. *warm goobery handshake*

I'll give you that copy of SuSE for $42.

Now, boys and girls, whats the morale of this story? Dick Head will never be found under his Harry competitors!

Excusee-my-SuSE (5, Interesting)

syntap (242090) | about 9 years ago | (#13868061)

SuSE 9.3 was the distro that finally got me seriously considering cutting the Windows cord, and 10 handed me the scissors. It's such a great, complete distro that's easy to install and maintain, easy to customize. It's the most polished distro I have used. Between SuSE 10 and Ubuntu the reasons for sticking with Windows and its licensing/upgrading hell are slim. Yeah I'll still need Windows for some things (mostly PHB stuff) but SuSE is my new default boot.

Re:Excusee-my-SuSE (3, Interesting)

hyu (763773) | about 9 years ago | (#13868104)

That's funny. I had the same feelings about SuSE for quite some time. It's the only Linux system I'd run for more than a week without deleting. I had it as my exclusive system for a good month and a half with very pleasant results.

This weekend I picked up a Mac, and all that has changed. Now I don't want to use Windows or Linux. Mac OS X is too good, too slick, and truly does just work.

It's operating systems like OS X and SuSE that work intuitively to just about anyone willing to spend a small amount of time with it that will lead to Windows becoming an obsolete choice. I'd rather use OS X than SuSE, but I'd rather use SuSE than Windows.

Re:Excusee-my-SuSE (-1, Flamebait)

Tony Hoyle (11698) | about 9 years ago | (#13868149)

Love the mac trolls.. they get everywhere :)

Re:Excusee-my-SuSE (-1, Troll)

vivek7006 (585218) | about 9 years ago | (#13868396)

Love the mac trolls.. they get everywhere :)

Absolutely right. And observe how in the end he mentions "MacOSX and linux" just to make sure that no one mods him down.

I am really getting sick of these fucking mac zeolots

Re:Excusee-my-SuSE (5, Insightful)

MiKM (752717) | about 9 years ago | (#13868165)

I've never understood what "just works" means. From my experience, every operating system (Windows, Mac, *nix) always has some problem/missing feature that needs a workaround.

Re:Excusee-my-SuSE (5, Funny)

heinousjay (683506) | about 9 years ago | (#13868344)

Have some of this Koolaid. Why, it's Aqua flavor, of course.

Re:Excusee-my-SuSE (1)

Rick Zeman (15628) | about 9 years ago | (#13868212)

I'd rather use OS X than SuSE, but I'd rather use SuSE than Windows.

That's a reasonable hierarchy. At home, I'll use my 4 year old powerbook running 10.4 ahead of my shiny 6 month old Dell dual-booting XP-P and SuSE 9.2 anytime..as I am now. It Just Works and Does It Well.

Re:Excusee-my-SuSE (2, Insightful)

vandit2k6 (848077) | about 9 years ago | (#13868145)

Yea SUSE 10 is great. The gui is really nice. But it still is not my default boot. One problem is that it doesn't like my wireless card on my laptop and for me thats more than important.

Re:Excusee-my-SuSE (4, Informative)

IANAAC (692242) | about 9 years ago | (#13868524)

Have you used Yast2 and looked at the supplementary wireless drivers available?

If not, I recommend it. They've worked hard (meaning with third parties) on wireless support.

Re:Excusee-my-SuSE (4, Interesting)

Cenuij (526885) | about 9 years ago | (#13868154)

You know what? Suse is the distro that actually did make me cut the windows cord. The only thing i missed for a while was playing some games, but since I discovered cedega that's a no brainer now too. Windows free and proud.

suse 10 install (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 years ago | (#13868208)

I just installed SUSE 10.0 last night, the install is very easy...there are just a few things I wish they did to make it even easier (like recommend kde or gnome) the partitioner is ok...I like it better than the Fedora one...YAST is also so easy to use that I have my friend (w/ no linux experience) using it with no problem..I have used suse 9.0, 9.1 and now 10...while I can't weigh in on its stability, I really can't complain about any changes Novell did...(putting things in the right place would be nice...but suse has never done that)

I will still stick with kubuntu on my main machine...but only because I really like apt and am lazy and don't feel like messing w/ my radeon again...but it will stay on my test machine... Highly recommended first distro..easy..installer a bit better than ubuntu's but that's because it is graphical and the installer help is actually helpful makes it very easy to cut the windows cord..

Re:Excusee-my-SuSE (3, Interesting)

smartsaga (804661) | about 9 years ago | (#13868255)

I disagree on the polished side. Perhaps it IS the most polished distro you have ever used, but it has been my experience that while it is good it is not that good. Just as an exmaple, I installed SUSE 10 on my Athlon 3000+ with 768 DDR RAM with 120GB HD with 8MB buffer. SUSE's configuration for performace simply sucks, it kept leaking memory and using all the RAM all the time. Just opening and closing programs would increase the RAM usage, damn it even just moving a window would use up more RAM. That is just half of it, the system monitor would also indicate that disk cache was using half the RAM all the time. That was on a clean install. After installing the ATI drivers the RAM usage wnet down just a little, but still SUSE would eat RAM little by little until a reboot was necesary.

I am now a Ubuntu user and the performace out of the box is great. And even better after installling the fgrlx drivers for my ATI.

I do agree in cutting the plug for Windows, but until I get my money back from all the software and games I bought that only run on Windows or all my Windows games and programs run on Linux, I cannot get rid of my windows partition.

Have a good one.

Re:Excusee-my-SuSE (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 years ago | (#13868336)

"Just opening and closing programs would increase the RAM usage..."

I've got two tickets for the next Clue Train. Be under it.

Re:Excusee-my-SuSE (4, Informative)

gmuslera (3436) | about 9 years ago | (#13868388)

If performance issues worries you, maybe you would want to try SUPER [opensuse.org] (SUSE Performance Enhanced Release). Is one of the nice things of being open, that people start to build around it new approachs.

Re:Excusee-my-SuSE (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 years ago | (#13868389)

Ekhm, it appears we have another someone who is clueless about how physical RAM is being allocated nowadays.

See, what you saw was actually pretty good. If you pay for RAM, it'd better be always utilized to the fullest extent by the OS. Instead of being 'empty', your RAM was put to some use and acted as a disk cache. It's a totally weird misconception that free RAM is good. It's not good. It's your investment being used to heat up your room and for no other reason. Think about it. That'd be a pretty expensive heater you've got there.

Cheers, Kuba

Re:Excusee-my-SuSE (3, Insightful)

Jon-o (17981) | about 9 years ago | (#13868535)

I wasn't too pleased with it either - haven't used the most recent version, but I spent a little bit of time with the evaluation version last year. Seemed there were a lot of nice ideas, but a lot seemed kinda half-assed. Lots of stuff that would work really nicely if you used it just like they wanted you to use it, but then didn't support anything more esoteric. And then if you tried to go outside of the "standard stuff", you find undocumented and unfinished scripts and the like. I found it rather annoying... especially since it seemed relatively impossible to get help on it other than through the paid support, which I didn't pay for, of course. But it's really not the sort of distro I'm interested in - I much prefer the flexibility and transparency of Debian (fully realizing that half the transparency is a result of my knowing better where to look, having used Debian for about 8 years now). SuSE just seemed to have too much "do it our way, or don't do it at all!" mentality about it. But maybe if I used it more, I'd change my mind.

Re:Excusee-my-SuSE (2, Interesting)

oscartheduck (866357) | about 9 years ago | (#13868302)

I tried Suse 8.2 and ended up in dependencies hell, so I went to Debian.
 
However, since then I've picked up a sysadmin job and persuaded my grant administrator to give me a second hard drive with suse on it on every computer we have. I only chose suse because my colleagues really like it; looks like I'm going to be happy with the choice.

Why do people always review the install? (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 years ago | (#13868141)

Why do people always review the install? I mean seriously, who gives a shit. I haven't heard anyone complaining about an install since 2000, and even in 1998 it really wasn't that hard with some documentation scribbled on a napkin. There's even a howto for installing [strangehorizons.com] linux on the carcass of a dead badger.

Microsoft isn't pushing their OS for its easy install. You never hear about OS X's install.

Why is linux judged by it's ease of install!? Who gives a flying rats ass. Does it work after it's installed? Probably not every well.

Re:Why do people always review the install? (5, Insightful)

saskboy (600063) | about 9 years ago | (#13868190)

I don't see how this got an insightful moderation, since it's just a troll.

How many people you know have bought a computer with Linux pre-installed, or comes with Linux recovery CDs? Macs come with OS-X already on it, so people don't tend to install it. If a Linux distro doesn't have a friendly install process, then its not going to be accepted by the masses. It's nothing personal against Linux, it's just a fact of the market place, and getting Linux's foot in the computer door.

Re:Why do people always review the install? (4, Insightful)

i_should_be_working (720372) | about 9 years ago | (#13868321)

His point was that since every distro has a very easy install these days (with the exception of some distros that aren't meant for noobs) there's no point in talking about the install in a review. It's a waste of space and time.

For distros like SUSE, Mandriva etc. the only thing that needs to be said about the install is 'it's easy'.

Way too many reviews talk about the install way too much and then don't spend enough space talking about how it is to actually use the distro.

Re:Why do people always review the install? (1)

BocaJuniors (924973) | about 9 years ago | (#13868768)

I don't think that "install" means to most people just "dumping the distro on the hard drive."

For most users it probably means a lot of other things too...like having a fully-functional system right out of the box.

And by that standard, Linux has come a long way.

Re:Why do people always review the install? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 years ago | (#13868415)

I hardly consider myself a noob (I'm actually been a single boot SUSE user since Feb) but the reasons I don't try a distro like Gentoo (and to a greater extent Freebsd) is because of the horror stories of the install process. Not knocking them, but having an easy install is important to some people, especially the demographic Novell is going after.

Re:Why do people always review the install? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 years ago | (#13868210)

Windows and Mac users only like to the OS that comes with their install. As opposed to say, some kind of independent thought, they love it when "stuff" gets rammed down their throat. In more than one way.

Re:Why do people always review the install? (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 years ago | (#13868505)

The reason Mac users get so devoted is that the Mac is sold as a lifestyle not a product. Once you've internalised that "lifestyle" image, it becomes part of their identity. Criticise the Mac and you criticise them. It's the oldest marketing trick in the book but it still works for people who don't like analytical reasoning and tend to react to things emotionally. Their little motto "think different" is ironic since so many Mac users see themselves as "artistic" and have largely rejected thinking as "boring".

Re:Why do people always review the install? (0, Flamebait)

pdpTrojan (454023) | about 9 years ago | (#13868837)

Is this any different from the way the OSS hippies act?

(The answer is no.)

Re:Why do people always review the install? (2, Interesting)

mwaggs_jd (887826) | about 9 years ago | (#13868249)

Um... maybe because nobody installs windows, or OSX on a blank box... but most everyonehe installs linux on a box that was either blank or had another OS preinstalled. Get a grip, the install is very important for potential new user. When was the last time you tried to install windows... for me it was 3.11... other than that, it has always been pre intalled.

DuDE! (1)

commodoresloat (172735) | about 9 years ago | (#13868252)

Microsoft isn't pushing their OS for its easy install. You never hear about OS X's install.

That's because 99% of users never have to install Windows or OSX. It comes on the computer and they don't futz with it. Whereas probably 90% of linux users have to install it themselves, on widely varying hardware, for which your instructions on a napkin may not apply. When I was using linux (before osx was available) I installed it many times, always on irregular hardware, and had various issues with the install process -- hardware not detected correctly; misleading impressions of what was installed and where, etc. I haven't installed linux in a few years so most distros are probably a lot better with this issue, but it's clear that the reason reviewers always comment on the ease of installation is (1) chances are the user will have to actually install this OS, and (2) the installation process is not always (at least historically) point and click and it just works.

Re:Why do people always review the install? (1)

MTO_B. (814477) | about 9 years ago | (#13868469)

Easy and visual install is very important, especially for the partition area of the installation when you have windows installed and you want a dual boot.

Installs have improved very much, and among those that I have tested Suse has the best one in this area.

I am currently using Ubuntu, but there is no way I would have installed it if I didnt have a second hard drive. If I had only one hard drive Suse would be my distro, I need to be sure I will not erase my windows partitions and that is one area of installation I really liked of Suse last time I tried. I felt safe installing it.

If it's a pc where you will only have linux, installation interface doesnt matter that much at all. No risk and you dont really have anything valuable to destroy.

Re:Why do people always review the install? (1)

j_w_d (114171) | about 9 years ago | (#13868639)

Microsoft isn't pushing their OS for its easy install. You never hear about OS X's install.

That's because compared to most linuxes, XP isn't easy to install. It's a pain in the ass. The only driver I ever need to install seperately with SuSE is the driver for my Nvidia GeForce and even that is semiautomated in SuSE. With MS every fiddly bit of crap that is attached needs it's own driver and most of them will just run under Linux. This is the main change in SuSE 9.3 that I don't like. Something about the hardware recognition is now broken and CDs and DVDs need considerable help to get them mounted.

Re:Why do people always review the install? (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 years ago | (#13868763)

/. moderation == amoebas handling the keyboard

really, this is no troll. Its the pure truth. This "insghtful" is only a small example of the retards that has powers to do this things... sigh

Re:Why do people always review the install? (1)

nicktripp (717517) | about 9 years ago | (#13868827)

Why do people always review the install?...Microsoft isn't pushing their OS for its easy install. You never hear about OS X's install...Why is linux judged by it's ease of install!?

Because unlike the two OS's you compared it to, Linux doesn't come installed by default on 99% of computers. Most Windows and Mac OS X users never see the OS installer, if they're lucky. Almost all Linux users will see AND use the installer if they want to use the OS. That's why.

Which distro to recommend ? (0, Offtopic)

Taco Cowboy (5327) | about 9 years ago | (#13868146)

My friends want to learn Linux. They are computer literate but have no experience in the world of unices, nor DOS.

Which distro do you recommend for people like them ? Ubuntu ? Suse ? Mandriva ?

Your opinion is much appreciated. Thanks !

Re:Which distro to recommend ? (2, Informative)

b3x (586838) | about 9 years ago | (#13868180)

If they want to learn Linux, then I recommend Slackware or Gentoo, those distros will offer the most learning experiences. However, if they just want to ditch windows, and use Linux instead, then SuSe or Ubuntu will be satisfactory.

Re:Which distro to recommend ? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 years ago | (#13868197)

Windows XP with Mavis Beacon typing tutor.

Thanks for coming out. Please go home now.

Re:Which distro to recommend ? (3, Informative)

Hakubi_Washu (594267) | about 9 years ago | (#13868224)

I'd say hand them a Knoppix or similar LiveCD (doesn't really matter which) to fool around with and get over the initial shock.

Then, if they are Win PowerUsers (aka don't sweat poking .lnks and the occasional cmd), hand them any Distro you like (I personally have a sweet spot for SuSE though it has some horrible decisions in directory structure, etc. and I openly hate Ubuntu, which I consider an absolute interface-nightmare in the default, LiveCD configuration. Debian, Gentoo, etc. are probably too arcane, let them discover the fun of that later on their own). Let them do installation, etc. on their own, but babysit them.

If they are simple users (no experience in unix or DOS doesn't make that so, but if they've never used a cmdline it gets tough) the first thing to ask is, honestly, do THEY want to learn Linux or do YOU want them too (I've myself been guilty of that)? If it's actually them you should probably install the LiveCD they had to play with, so they're not confused by another change so soon. And make damn sure they come to you before trying to install some software (people get nervous breakdowns when first encountering the "Linux way")

Re:Which distro to recommend ? (1)

guitaristx (791223) | about 9 years ago | (#13868369)

I must disagree. We run SuSE at work for all our servers, and so when I moved from a job where I was required to use software that was only available on Windows, I thought, "well, gee, it'd be nice to be running the same OS as the servers, since my code will eventually live on the servers..."

A half-day's frustration later, I said to my nearest FreeBSD zealot, "Okay, show me this FreeBSD thing." An hour and a half later, I had a fully-functioning desktop. KDE even played nice with all the apps that I installed. I will say that FreeBSD isn't as GUI-friendly as SuSE in the area of administration, but for a minimal CLI effort, you get to rid yourself of a lot of the package management nightmares that SuSE brings to the table.

Re:Which distro to recommend ? (1)

Glonoinha (587375) | about 9 years ago | (#13868481)

SuSE 10 (the one we are discussing here today) has a Live DVD also.
I know, I'm using it right now and I love it.

Download the iso here [anl.gov] , burn it to DVD, leave it in the DVD drive, and reboot.

Enjoy.

Re:Which distro to recommend ? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 years ago | (#13868244)

sure, SUSE is easy and well done. Plus all the tools that come with it are great. www.opensuse.org is the place to go to get the install discs.

You'll enjoy this :)

Re:Which distro to recommend ? (4, Informative)

Malor (3658) | about 9 years ago | (#13868293)

Tell them to try LiveCDs first, just to tinker. They let you play with Linux with zero commitment. Just be sure to explain that a 'real' install will be a lot faster, because it runs from the hard drive.

When you're ready for a hard drive install, I've been recommending Mandrake/Mandriva for new users for several years now. I started using it in the 8.X series, and after a short readjustment period, it was a total Windows replacement for me. I felt a lot MORE productive on Mandrake than on Windows, once I'd figured it out. It had some rough edges, but overall worked very, very well.

I've used a lot of Linux desktops over the years (Ubuntu, Debian, Redhat up to the 7.X series, Slackware, SLS), and I've always thought Mandrake was the best. (though Ubuntu is pretty nice too... you might want to try both.)

I don't have any experience with Suse, because for a long time you had to pay to get the best install options. The free version was purposely awkward to install, so I never bothered with it. Suse's loss, too... I liked Mandrake and I've sent them, geeze, three or four hundred bucks by now, probably. I just didn't want to pay BEFORE seeing the product. Now that they're more GPL-ish, they may be a very good spot for new users to tinker. I'll download and play with this one and see what's up with it.

For your friends, though, definitely start them on LiveCDs. They're easy to use, cheap to download and burn, and if they aren't impressed, all they have to do is shut down and eject the CD.

Re:Which distro to recommend ? (1)

cpthowdy (609034) | about 9 years ago | (#13868309)

I'd say SUSE 10. Here [novell.com] is a link to download it, especially a Live-DVD image, so they can either run away screaming, or go all the way and install it to disk (they'll need to get the other ISO's here.) [opensuse.org]

Re:Which distro to recommend ? (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 years ago | (#13868796)

My friends want to get married. They have read about it but have no experience with women.
Which would you recommend for people like them?
Redheads? Brunettes? Blondes?

Your opinion is much appreciated. Thanks !

"hands down" and a real question (1)

Hakubi_Washu (594267) | about 9 years ago | (#13868155)

Jeesh, yes we understood you learned a new phrase, now get over it :-P

One real question though: Up to and including SuSE 9.1 I have always had one major complaint (That does not stop me from using SuSE, but is an absolute showstopper when thinking about recommending it to friends). Everything is fine as long as you only install the default packages and a few select ones, but very often packages (which are distributed with SuSE, I'm not talking about external rpms) would install just fine, but never show up in KDEs menu. For someone used to that there's no big deal to add a link manually, but it's hardly something I can tolerate in a commercial distro... So, my question, is that problem still there in 10.0? What happens if I add LyX for example?

Re:"hands down" and a real question (1)

superpulpsicle (533373) | about 9 years ago | (#13868437)

I think that is more of a KDE thing. However, all linux distros could really use an upgrade path. If I had a datacenter box using SUSE 9, I should be able to put the SUSE 10 CD in, and get an "upgrade" entire version button. Apt-get do work to some degree, but the CD networkless method seem more natural in a giant datacenter. Or maybe someone has a better way out there?

Re:"hands down" and a real question (1)

IANAAC (692242) | about 9 years ago | (#13868581)

However, all linux distros could really use an upgrade path.

I successfully "upgraded" from Suse 9.3 to 10.0 last week.

It was the first real upgrade that's actually worked hassle-free, as opposed to upgrade, meaning backup-everything-and-selectively-restore-after-a- fresh-install.

Well, I did have to go into Sax2 and redo my resolution, but that was it. All my settings and programs continued to work just fine.

Re:"hands down" and a real question (3, Informative)

kikensei (518689) | about 9 years ago | (#13868452)

Here are 10 or 11 repositories of SuSE compile RPM's: http://www.opensuse.org/Additional_YaST_Package_Re positories [opensuse.org] Here's how to install then as sources for YaST: http://www.novell.com/coolsolutions/feature/11504. html [novell.com] I recommend Packman's excellent package site, from the first link. Once you add the sources, YaST performs essentially the same apt-get (or synaptic), resolves dependencies, and doesn't break stuff when you add new packages.

What a media-rich Distro Review (5, Interesting)

BlueRayMan (924733) | about 9 years ago | (#13868178)

http://madpenguin.org/images/reviews/suse10/siia/s use10install.html [madpenguin.org]

I've never seen a Flash movie of a Linux distro install before! Nice.

I tested the boot.iso on an XP box, until it failed to detect that I was using a MN-510 (a usb wireless networking adapter made by Microsoft.)

So thumb's up on this review -- but the distro is not a smashing success, because it fails to properly embrace the MS switcher. The test is not can we install it--it's "can the previous generation..."

Re:What a media-rich Distro Review (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 years ago | (#13868563)

A little amusing that whoever made the movie didn't even bother to read the EULA ;)

And I cringed when they selected KDE over GNOME.

Re:What a media-rich Distro Review (1)

TheMadPenguin (662390) | about 9 years ago | (#13868822)

Heheh that was me who made the movie. The only reason I didn't "read" it was to conserve time and ultimately filesize :) It was meant as more of an example of an actual install than anything. We plan on doing more "media" in the future, but not just the installer. We've got some interesting things up our sleeves as far as that goes. Traditional reviews will soon be a thing of the past...

wireless cards (1)

michaelbuddy (751237) | about 9 years ago | (#13868214)

I'm wondering if SUSE will support wireless PCI cards out of the box, or even better, wireless USB. I've got both and neither work automatically with Fedora,

Re:wireless cards (1)

Stevyn (691306) | about 9 years ago | (#13868322)

I think mandriva is one of the few major distros where wireless will work out of the box. I got wireless running on my laptop with gentoo, ndiswrapper, and a lot of freakin patience. It works, but it's no where as easy as with windows. But I believe most of this is because drivers aren't open source and there are difficulties in making them open source.

Re:wireless cards (1)

Why Login (923394) | about 9 years ago | (#13868365)

I know Linspire 5.0 detects Wi-Fi cards. Wonder how Suse 10.0 handles Wi-Fi?

Re:wireless cards (1)

Pelleas777 (804986) | about 9 years ago | (#13868464)

I have Suse 10 running on several machines, including a laptop, all with different wifi hardware and it has all worked out of the box. The different types of wifi hardware: Intel 2200 wifi (detected and setup during install), Netgear USB wifi (detected and setup correctly during install), and netgear MA401 pcmcia wifi card (detected and setup correctly during install). So I would say you have many different options to choose from. I have been tinkering with Suse since 8 and 9 was the version that finally made it my primary OS. It has just gotten better with each release. I have definately noticed a strong push for hardware support since 9. I hope you give it a try.

Re:wireless cards (1)

nintendo_is_a_cereal (891137) | about 9 years ago | (#13868500)

I installed it on my laptop (presario 700) and my card (Belkin something or another) shows up in Yast, but I don't have infrastructure mode available to me in kwifimanager and the two wireless networks I've tried connecting to give me nothing. I've read some stuff for SuSE 10 on how to get my particular card working but being a student with little free time I haven't sat down to download all the packages, drivers and set about recompiling stuff.

Re:wireless cards (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 years ago | (#13868741)

Installed it onto an old celeron with a D-link 520 (ath_pci) and absolutely no problems.
Wireless file server in 10 minutes... (not including some samba oplock / filesystem type issues.. but lets just ignore that)

wireless usb (2, Informative)

Kludge (13653) | about 9 years ago | (#13868753)

To get wireless usb running with Linux, buy a wireless dongle with a Ralink chipset in it and use the drivers at http://rt2x00.serialmonkey.com/wiki/index.php/Main _Page [serialmonkey.com]

For example, I bought one of these,
http://newsite.pagecomputers.com/store/Product_acc essoriesx.asp?catalog_name=Unclassified&category_n ame=32g32c302s1287&product_id=624257 [pagecomputers.com] , grabbed, compiled (very easy), and installed the rt2570 sources, and the thing worked perfectly as a network device under both Suse 9.3 and Fedora 4.

The rt2x00 web site said that the drivers would soon be integrated into every kernel release, so it may be in Suse 10 already. Check subdirectories of /lib/modules for the existence of rt2570.ko. If it's in there, then you shouldn't have to download/compile anything -- the usb dongle will just work.

SuSE is great but... (1)

Buelldozer (713671) | about 9 years ago | (#13868229)

Your ardor will cool when you try and install it onto an HP ze2000z with AMD Turion.

My screen doesn't work right (won't adjust over 800x600 without fragging up) and my built in Broadcom B/G wireless doesn't work at all.

On the upnote it absolutely SCREAMS when you install the 64 bit version...which would be nicer if you could see what you were doing and connect to the network while you were doing it.

I like SuSE but it doesn't always "just work".

Blame the manufacturers not SuSe. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 years ago | (#13868307)

As said elsewhere, SuSe would have the drivers if the manufacturers would release the specs.

I wonder why they dont?

rgds

Re:SuSE is great but... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 years ago | (#13868609)

On the other hand, SuSE 10 is the only distro capable of working 100% correctly with my Toshiba Equium A-80 (Intel Centrino plataform), even Mandrake 2006 wich is supposedly "Centrino certified" messes up quite badly... and SuSE 9.3 worked almost perfectly too.

SuSE 10 is the distro the allowed me to throw Windows off my notebook.

As i've learned from past mobile linux experiences if there's a distro wich you can exepect to work out of the box on your notebook, it's SuSE.

Details & Packman's! (1)

mpapet (761907) | about 9 years ago | (#13868256)

I've got Suse 9.3 (KDE) running at home but it still has minor niggling missing features that hinder widespread adoption.

KDE: I'll say it again, from Kmail there's no print selection feature. My hope is KDE 4.0 will have that feature.

Hardware issues: I've got a usb keyboard that doesn't kick-in on boot sometimes. The wife just resets. I've got an Epson printer/scanner/more (Linux drivers hosted in Japan!) that goes to sleep and cups can't start it.

OpenOffice.Org:
Had I known how unstable OOO was when I installed 9.3 I wouldn't have done it. At the time, the wife had some old version OOO documents that would crash in the shipping version. Updates since then took care of the issues, but 100+MB of OOO update was not easy on dial-up.

Packman:
That packman site is *exactly* why MS has nothing to worry about. If in the next 10 years MS screwed up their monopoly and they have to prosecute Linux, they only have to do an RIAA-style sweep of individuals violating one right/patent or another. It won't threaten IBM and they'll "put the chill" on desktop tux.

All is not lost however. I got my neighbor onto a mac mini for their first (yes first) computer and they were confounded by the thing.
-What's a .wmv and how do I open it? (Had to download the archive unpacking application first, then install WMP.)
-The bluetooth mouse falls asleep and loses connection.
-I set up their mail. (they are struggling with the sooo simple mail client)
-Show me that search bar thing again?

So, even in the slicker world of Macs, they are still far from perfect and Linux is definitely in the running for a desktop OS.

I think I can sum you up better than your sig. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 years ago | (#13868316)

100% Redundant.

Re:I think I can sum you up better than your sig. (1)

strider44 (650833) | about 9 years ago | (#13868468)

I agree. If the guy doesn't like a program, or it doesn't work on his system, he should just use another program and not blame it on the operating system! That goes for each of the three main operating systems.

Re:Details & Packman's! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 years ago | (#13868547)

dial-up?!

Ladies and Gentlemen, let us welcome the esteemed representative from Uzbekistan!

I am now 100% M$ free. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 years ago | (#13868275)

I used to be quasi-m$ but with the release of SuSe 10, I don't even bother to dual boot any longer.

If there is an app that doesn't work with SuSe then I bin the app and go looking, easy choice really.

I wake up my pc and no longer feel dirty or slimy, freedom is it's own reward.

Keep up the good work Novell and SuSe, looking forward to a future free from Microsoft, which is where I want to go.

And my customers, and my friends, and all the peeps I install free/OSS software for and all the future peeps I can turn from the dark side and .... well you get the idea.

For every one techie Microsoft pisses off, one hundred customers get converted.

rgds

Hardware support (5, Insightful)

applecrumble (910692) | about 9 years ago | (#13868283)

I always find it unfair when Linux distros are labelled poor because they don't support somebody's hardware, like their wireless card not working. The Linux developers would happily develop drivers for software if they were given the hardware specs to do so, but that isn't the case and drivers must be created with little help from the manufacturer. For example, I'm sure Novell would love to have native drivers for every wireless card out there, but if the companies won't co-operate, the best they can do is the ugly hack of using the win32 driver wrapped in an emulation layer. It's similar to complaining about why you can't play Playstation 2 games on Xbox hardware; the latter was never designed to work on the former and Microsoft wouldn't offer any help to get it working, but that doesn't mean Playstation 2 games are rubbish.

Re:Hardware support (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 years ago | (#13868429)

I always find it unfair when Linux distros are labelled poor because they don't support somebody's hardware, like their wireless card not working. The Linux developers would happily develop drivers for software if they were given the hardware specs to do so, but that isn't the case and drivers must be created with little help from the manufacturer.

I think the more common complaint is that a given distribution doesn't support certain hardware out of the box that other distributions do. If distro X supports my wireless card, why doesn't distro Y?

Re:Hardware support (1)

dedazo (737510) | about 9 years ago | (#13868525)

Well, one of the things that's going to come out (maybe) of this big business push with Linux is the licensing of more hardware specs to companies like Novell and IBM.

If you're Hardware Maker X and some dude in Wisconsin send you an email telling you that you 'suxxorz' because you won't release your specs or at least a driver you'll likely just chuckle and hit 'Del'. When someone from IBM does that on the other hand...

Or maybe just the incentive of having a corp pay for driver development (through bounties or whatnot) might be enough to get the reverse engineering juices flowing.

Re:Hardware support (1, Troll)

justins (80659) | about 9 years ago | (#13868756)

I always find it unfair when Linux distros are labelled poor because they don't support somebody's hardware, like their wireless card not working. The Linux developers would happily develop drivers for software if they were given the hardware specs to do so, but that isn't the case and drivers must be created with little help from the manufacturer.

In many cases the manufacturer would happily develop drivers if they could make a closed-source Linux driver without the exercise turning into a total buttfuckathon.

Re:Hardware support (1)

fossa (212602) | about 9 years ago | (#13868853)

Perhaps... of course, even ignoring what I assume you mean by "buttfuckathon", it's still much easier to make binary drivers for Windows since x86 is essentially the only architecture. The manufacturer should be happy to do whatever the customers want, which for me would be to release all specs (and possibly a reference driver for x86 Windows or maybe even Linux) so that free drivers could be made for any OS on any architecture, but apparently not enough other customers feel that way.

Re:Hardware support (1, Troll)

Lucractius (649116) | about 9 years ago | (#13868878)

thats one of the fortunate things im looking forward to in freebsd. the manufactureres of wireless hardware are very happily supplying not only help but paying some people to be writing drivers for wireless hardware for FreeBSD 6.0...

Ill be mean and throw the grenade now. Its cause its BSD not GPL. They can benifit more from the BSD liscence than they can from the GPL. Dont flame me bout it im just pointing out an example. And im happy with it, it means that theres going to be open source drivers, and they can change them for their own purposes without hassles of releasing their changes. Think about what that means if your writing drivers for hardware... a windows driver derived from a gpl one would need to be redistributed as source wouldnt it, a BSD one wouldnt.

feel free to correct me if im wrong bout that.

on the side note this is one thing that will mean i never use Debian. bunch of GNU freaks they are, bitch slapping the OpenSolaris kernel and not supporting or even helping building a GNU userland for it purely because its licence. *grumbles*

Youre' right...Sort of (3, Insightful)

katharsis83 (581371) | about 9 years ago | (#13868891)

You're right, I'm sure Linux developers would be happy to work on driver support if the manufacturers were more forth-coming. I'm also sure that most Linux developers are also saints who donate to UNICEF, help old ladies across the street, and also only say "LOL" when they're actually laughing. None of that's relevant.

The problem is that none of this matters to the end-user who's giving Linux a shot for the first time. It doesn't matter whose fault it is that their digital camera doesn't work, or why their laptop's sound card can't play back sound. You just lost a customer.

geek sweat (5, Funny)

BushCheney08 (917605) | about 9 years ago | (#13868286)

...but here we are in a world where SUSE is open and still making geeks sweat every time a new release comes out

I'm fairly certain the geeks would still be sweating regardless of whether a new version of SuSE came out...

And totally unrelated, how cool would it have been if Digital Research had owned SuSE at one point? I would have loved to have a machine running DR-SuSE sitting around the office.

Re:geek sweat (2, Informative)

Sinter (650182) | about 9 years ago | (#13868810)

A close relative of mine currently works for Novell, and you wouldn't believe how many people mispronounce SuSE. It is pronounced (by the German employees, at least): Zoo-suh, not Seuss, not Suzy. Just wanted to clear that up.

Suse 10 Rocks! (3, Informative)

canuck57 (662392) | about 9 years ago | (#13868320)

Novell has made some interesting changes in distribution and development since our last review of SUSE Linux

I plugged Suse 10 Eval into my Sony portable and damm, the wireless 54G with my D-Link G650 shone bright! Noisy too, the sound card worked like a charm. Plugged in the WEP key for the G650 and on the air I was.

This is a smooth install for average users.... developers will have to head back and load gcc and stuff but what a hoot. Get to use Evolution with PGP, will not need 63 patch bundles and installs quickly. Office (openoffice) tools are included, but a few were missing on the intial install but were on the CD.

Now off to get MythTV....

the breaking point (1)

wwwavatar (925492) | about 9 years ago | (#13868375)

im a linux idiot... suse 9.2 sold me on the idea of really breaking away from M$ , that was about a month ago. Suse 10 did the job. I cant think of a good reason for using my xp boot up atm....

Upgrading was a pain and other issues (5, Informative)

AaronW (33736) | about 9 years ago | (#13868411)

I ran into several issues when I upgraded from 9.3 to 10 last weekend.

In some ways I think SuSE 10 is worse than 9.3... I ran into a number of issues, usually with YaST.

First of all, the SCSI device list changed and it would not mount my RAID drives... a quick edit of /etc/fstab fixed that, but YaST was useless. What I hate is that the new YaST install would not allow me to go in and fix it during the upgrade process. I believe I was able to edit this in previous versions.

Second, the YaST printer tool refused to work properly... it would just hang every time I tried to run it, as did lpoptions and just consume the CPU. I finally managed to get that working after manually deleting a number of configuration files and rebooting. For the life of me I still can't figure out why rebooting worked.

Third, I ran into more YaST problems with my sound card. YaST somehow got corrupted and would not allow me to edit or delete my sound card settings to reconfigure it. After deleting a bunch of configuration files and reinstalling I got that working.

Fourth, Like 9.3, SuSE does not work with my TV capture card... it used to work with the 8.2 and I think 9.0 and worked, though without sound, in 9.3. It's a Pinnacle PCTV Studio PRO capture card based off of a standard BTTV chip.

And last but not least, SuSE no longer includes a DVD with all of the source RPMs. This wouldn't be so bad, but I've spent the last two days trying to download the Xorg source RPM from their incredibly slow FTP site so I can apply a patch to it to use my Logitech MX1000 mouse properly... I applied the patch to previous versions to enable the Linux event mechanism from a Gentoo patch I found. This is what really pisses me off. Also, it looks like all of the DVD and CD ISOs are mirrored, but not the source files.

I still have a ways to go to see how the upgrade went, but this is my first impression. Oh, and during the upgrade it barfed on the quicktime library include files... renaming and moving /usr/include/quicktime fixed that.

I've upgraded a few other machines which have much simpler installs that went a lot better, but still not without a couple of incidents.

Part of the problem with YaST is just trying to figure out which files each part of YaST is trying to use and is barfing on.

All in all, so far I think SuSE 10 is a little less reliable than 9.3... I was hoping it would be better because I really need to upgrade my home server which has been running over 2 years without a reboot running SuSE Professional 8.2, which as far as I can tell is their best release to date in terms of stability. Sadly, SuSE has pulled all of their patches and is no longer supporting this version, or if they are I certainly cannot afford it for a home machine.

Hopefully for 10.1 they'll have things better stabilized as well as have support for S.M.A.R.T. for SATA, which is another thing I want for when I rebuild my server.

Some things worked quite well, but there is still a long way to go.

-Aaron

Using openSUSE 10 @ Home (4, Informative)

mymaxx (924704) | about 9 years ago | (#13868418)

I have tried several distros: Fedora, Mandrake/Mandriva and Ubuntu to name a few. So far, openSUSE 10 is the first to support both my Intel Pro/Wireless 2200 B/G wireless card with WPA support. All I had to do was download the firmware from the Intel site and use SUSE's wizards to get WPA configured.

Upgrade process from 9.2 Pro to 10.0 ? (1)

epohs (775630) | about 9 years ago | (#13868448)

A while back I installed 9.2 pro as dual boot with WinXP on my dad's machine. After skimming this review I'm excited to upgrade him to 10.0. Is there an easy way to upgrade from 9.2 to 10.0? I've been an ubuntu user for a while now, is there an analogous way in SuSE to swap the repositories and upgrage to 10.0? Or, can I just choose "Upgrade distrobution" in YasT and it'll go from there?

Re:Upgrade process from 9.2 Pro to 10.0 ? (1)

builderbob_nz (728755) | about 9 years ago | (#13868799)

Just choose the Upgrade option. But be warned... I tried this earlier today without thinking and ended up seriously f'ing up my display driver settings so I couldn't see to finish the end of the upgrade and had to reinstall.

I am using a Nvidia 6600DT graphics card. I would suggest that if you use a propiatary drive like Nvidia's or ATI's that you either disable X before upgrading, or revert to a SVGA/VESA driver.

YaST and SuSEconfig (2)

rsax (603351) | about 9 years ago | (#13868456)

I deal with RHEL and CentOS quite a bit but I don't use the GUI provided tools to manage servers. I always prefer editing text config files and managing them using Subversion. Are there any SUSE pros here that manage their servers completely without YaST or SuSEconfig? Anyone know of websites that show the text config file equivalents of their GUI counterparts? It's easier to do so with Redhat considering the sheer number of websites devoted to that distribution.

Works for me (2, Interesting)

l0perb0y (324046) | about 9 years ago | (#13868531)

I've been using 10.0 since about the 8th and I've got to say it's pretty nice.

Easy, Quick install
Nice auto-update features
Pretty console
Easy to configure firewall
Not too hard to figure out where they hid the config files

The problems I've had so far:

A crippled libxine is used EVERYWHERE. I've tried pakman's and super's xine but still can't get all the media to play that I could with Gentoo.
The last two security patches (firefox and snmpd) have broken their respective programs.

This is my first Suse. I've been running Gentoo for the past 3 years(compiling everything gets way old). I think I'll keep it for a while. Hopefully Novell doesn't let it go to waste.

Still doesn't support my Wireless card (2, Insightful)

frankcow (925500) | about 9 years ago | (#13868550)

despite the increased hardware support, my wireless pc card (DWL-650 revP) still doesn't work with it... must I buy a new card to use suse?????????

Re:Still doesn't support my Wireless card (1)

Stevyn (691306) | about 9 years ago | (#13868714)

Have you tried using ndiswrapper and the windows drivers?

Re:Still doesn't support my Wireless card (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 years ago | (#13868904)

i have got the usb version of this card working with linux, so it would seem odd to me that the pccard doesn't work...

Just installed SuSE10 last night (4, Informative)

Billly Gates (198444) | about 9 years ago | (#13868625)

Pro:
- Very easy to use.
- Great distro for geeks who want to work in linux and not on linux spending a weekend or two to set everything up.
- Its a more professionally and less buggy compared to past versions of the distro and Novell brings a corporate appeal.
- SuSE10 automatically mounts windows paritions by default and sets up icons to the drives automatically no matter which wm you use. Great way to save time
- SuSE10 devfs automatically mounts devices and creates desktop shortcuts to the device such as my ipod-mini. No need to do it manually and adding a shortcut errr link

Cons:
- SuSE intentionally crippled its media player citing patent concerns on some codecs
- Nvidia can be added but the drivers are known to not be as stable as the windows versions. Bad if you are a cad user
- Software such as XFCE4 and other classics have been removed from the software repository. This means you have to install it yourself.
- Buggy still but alot better. I can't log into another other wm but gnome. If I create another user account I can do it with that account. Just not the one I setup. GDM/KDM will always pick gnome no matter which wm I select. Also my MS scrolling mouse which worked in previous versions of SuSE no longer works.
- KDM/GDM is hiddin and automatic logins are the default. This drove me absolutely mad as I like to log into different wm's. GDM configuration was removed from the gnome menu's. After pulling my hair out for 15 minutes I found it under the add user in yast??
- Yast is still slow as always.

So its a mix for me. I am keeping netbsd for serious work and SuSE in the meanwhile to do my regular work in since I dont have a good 2-3 weeks to configure NetBSD for my tastes.

Re:Just installed SuSE10 last night (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 years ago | (#13868817)

XFCE, postgreaql and other "missing softwares" are found in suse mirrors and in the boxed dvd. So buy the dvd or add an installation source to install from a internet mirror and be happy.

There are lots of information about suse many consider unatural (but ask and you will find out). Now really, there are lots of suse resources that people doesnt know. Ask to suse people and that will probably save you time and resources :)

Eewww! (2, Funny)

jkinney3 (535278) | about 9 years ago | (#13868725)

The thought of making "sweaty geeks" is really kind of gross! I mean, bathing already takes too much time away from reading /. and playing games and coding.... What we need is an open source air freshener...

vaseline-free please? (1, Troll)

quentin_quayle (868719) | about 9 years ago | (#13868732)

Linux is easy and can do everything Windows and Mac can, with some exceptions such as games - for people who like anti-aliasing. For those who can't stand the fuzzy fonts, Linux is far from usable.

On Windows, if you like clear fonts, you just find the little check-box for anti-aliasing, uncheck it, maybe reboot, and the interface is *beautiful*, *perfect*. Every letter is crisp with clean, sharp edges, and well-formed, well-hinted at any size.

On Linux, if you can't tolerate the blurry look, you're in for a long ordeal to even try to get readable fonts without anti-aliasing. Getting rid of the a-a, and getting decent hinting are *both* daunting tasks even for techies.

Most "newbie" tutorials are on trivial things like changing the background images or playing media files. You have to locate relatively obscure pages like this [opensuse.org] and this [linuxquestions.org] .

Then you have to find out how to first tweak, and then compile source packages on Linux. Then you have to somehow get the system to use the one set of fonts and version of X rather than the other.

I'm beyond expert status on Windows, yet I still haven't got fonts looking readable after hours of messing with Suse 10. For the non-technical user it's unrealistic to imagine they would ever figure it out, or even find someone to fix it for them.

Evidently most people like anti-aliasing. And that's fine for them. For the rest of us, Linux has a *huge* obstacle to usability.

Re:vaseline-free please? (2, Funny)

yaogzhan (924882) | about 9 years ago | (#13868895)

I like anti-aliasing too, so I can't leave Xp at the moment ...

Why? (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 years ago | (#13868793)

What is diffrent between this and the simply mepis with KDE that i have dual booting? Will it actualy run at native resolution for my laptop? (mepis wont work at anything higher than 1024x768) better programs? why are there so many diffrent linux versions? why can't you all just get on the same page?

And if you get even CLOSER... (4, Funny)

Junior J. Junior III (192702) | about 9 years ago | (#13868852)

It all starts looking like a bunch of 1s and 0s.
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