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World of Warcraft: Burning Crusade Confirmed

Zonk posted more than 8 years ago | from the for-quel'thelas dept.

Role Playing (Games) 139

The official site for the first World of Warcraft expansion: The Burning Crusade has been launched as BlizzCon kicks off. There you'll find screens, movies, and information about the upcoming expansion to one of the most popular MMOGs on the market. The site confirms several of the rumours currently on the internet about the game, including the fact that the Horde will be gaining the Blood Elves as a playable race. The new Alliance race is still up in the air. From the FAQ: "Q: What does the title of the World of Warcraft expansion refer to? A: "The Burning Crusade" refers to the Burning Legion's ongoing efforts to destroy life on Azeroth. To date, the Burning Legion's exploits have been documented in Warcraft III and in our War of the Ancients novel trilogy. As part of World of Warcraft: The Burning Crusade, players will now be able to travel through the Dark Portal to confront the Legion on otherworldly battlefields." ScuttleMonkey is on the ground at Blizzcon, and should have some firsthand info for us this weekend about the happenings in California. Update: 10/28 20:44 GMT by Z : IGN has a rundown on the features and screens. Good stuff.

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139 comments

frost pizzle (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#13897464)

nizzle ghizzle foshizzle

Burning Crusade? (1)

hackwrench (573697) | more than 8 years ago | (#13897503)

When I read that title, my first thought was that some goup had decided that World of Warcraft was evil and that all copies of it should be burned.

Beyond the Dark Portal (1)

Riktopher (763186) | more than 8 years ago | (#13897552)

Reminds me of the expansion pack for Warcraft II, blended with Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne, tossed on top of WoW. Really, thats pretty sweet. Like to see how the stories form now...

Now THIS is what an expansion should be! (1)

ringbarer (545020) | more than 8 years ago | (#13897859)

Given SOE's recent pitiful content-lite expansions for Everquest 2 and Star Wars Galaxies, one can only hope that their sad pathetic games die the death they deserve.

Hell, I'd sooner play Roma Victoria than anything from Sony.

Re:Beyond the Dark Portal (1)

macrom (537566) | more than 8 years ago | (#13899262)

Blizzard has done an awesome job of integrating the Warcraft stories into World of Warcraft. There is a quest on the Alliance side where you meet up with Jaina Proudmoore, who was a character in Warcraft III. If you play as the undead, you can see the entry to Undercity looks just like the throne room from the cut scenes in Warcraft III (where mad Prince Arthas assassinates his father). Mages have spells that rain down ice (like "Blizzard" in Warcraft II) and change enemies into sheep (just like "Polymorph" in Warcraft II). There are other instances, and I'm sure the list can go on and on. I personally never finished Warcraft III under single player, so there are probably many more references that I'm missing.

Little stuff like this makes me very impressed, and shows that Blizzard knows how to make a game world truly flourish.

Let the B*tching Begin (5, Insightful)

dividedsky319 (907852) | more than 8 years ago | (#13897555)

People are already complaining.

Mostly about the level cap being raised to 70.

Personally, I'm excited about that... I wasn't a fan of the endgame, and leveling was my source of fun. Once I reached the cap, I didn't care about getting uber gear or anything like that. Sure, I'll reach 70 eventually as well, but 10 more levels of content is exciting to me...

People will complain about anything, won't they? (Especially when it comes to MMORPG gamers)

Re:Let the B*tching Begin (1)

Sierpinski (266120) | more than 8 years ago | (#13897730)

People are already complaining.

Mostly about the level cap being raised to 70.

Personally, I'm excited about that... I wasn't a fan of the endgame, and leveling was my source of fun. Once I reached the cap, I didn't care about getting uber gear or anything like that. Sure, I'll reach 70 eventually as well, but 10 more levels of content is exciting to me...

People will complain about anything, won't they? (Especially when it comes to MMORPG gamers)


I won't complain about being able to gain another 10 levels either. Besides, if they raise the limit by 10 now, then stands to reason that they will do it again in the future. What's special about the number 70? Its just 10 more than the current limit. One other thing they can do is reduce the max number of players in raids. For example, its 20 in Zul'Gurub right now, but when you have level 70 folks instead of 60, they might reduce the capacity to 15 to compensate, so they don't have to alter the raid instance. (Although I'd much rather them add new things to kill/do than that, but it is a viable scenario.)

Another 10 levels will also reduce my aggro radius even more while I'm harvesting herbs in those higher-level areas like the Burning Steppes.

Re:Let the B*tching Begin (4, Insightful)

dividedsky319 (907852) | more than 8 years ago | (#13897897)

I won't complain about being able to gain another 10 levels either.

It seems like the majority of people on the forums are complaining because they've "worked so hard" to get epic items for their level 60 character, and that a green lvl 70 item will be better than their epic item.

But, I mean, come on... gaming is about fun, not about accomplishment. This "I'm l33ter than you becuase I have a purple weapon" has gotten out of control. (Besides, the epic items out now have an "item level" that's >60 anyway... so don't wet yourself, your epic item is still "better")

To the complainer, I say this... you worked so hard to get your items... What, did you think you had to do that once, then you were the coolest person in the game... forever? The game is going to expand, to change, and you're going to have to continue to play... isn't that a good thing?

Really, the source of the complaining is that it kicks their "l33tness" down a notch. Suddenly someone is level 61 and they're only 60, oh noes! The world is over!

A word of advice: Stop taking it so seriously and just have fun

Re:Let the B*tching Begin (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#13897933)

lol, strawman

Re:Let the B*tching Begin (1, Interesting)

AuMatar (183847) | more than 8 years ago | (#13897937)

I don't like the level cap raise. I get my fun from challenging (preferably non-raid) instances, PvP, quests, etc. Having to grind 10 more levels just because isn't my idea of fun. Leveling is something you do to get to the fun, it should be as short as possible (non-existant is preferable).

Its also going to totally FUBAR the skill trees. 10 more talent points. My shaman is now a 37/0/24 build. An instacast heal or lightning every 3 minutes and a garunteed crit every 5. Yeah, thats not imbalanced. Being able to get a 31 point talent in 1 tree and a 21 pointer in a second is not good- the game wasn't balanced around it.

Re:Let the B*tching Begin (3, Insightful)

Thorkytel Ant-Head (593092) | more than 8 years ago | (#13898108)

Okay, so you get your fun from challenging instances, PvP, and quests. So how does raising the level cap change this at all? Just keeping doing those instances, quests, and PvPing. I assume you've been ignoring the XP bar since level 60; just keep ignoring it. Why does the availability of more experience mean that you have to start grinding? Just have fun. As for the skill trees, it is mentioned that there will be new skills available for those above level 60. I am assuming that the new skills will be over and above the current skill trees, not just an extension to the current ones. Have a little faith in Blizzard.

Re:Let the B*tching Begin (1)

AuMatar (183847) | more than 8 years ago | (#13898259)

It changes it because I have to spend another couple weeks->months leveling to get those last 10 levels. And yes, you do *have* to get them, if you don't you will be totally owned at PvP. So now I need to spend large amounts of time doing something I find mind numbingly boring, in order to go back to the fun stuff.

Re:Let the B*tching Begin (4, Insightful)

Thorkytel Ant-Head (593092) | more than 8 years ago | (#13898326)

No, you don't have to get them. It's a game. Have fun. Plenty of people enjoy the game even before level 60. Maybe getting "totally owned at PvP" shouldn't be your only concern in the game. Your main concern should be having fun.

But it seems to me that you're so concerned about the game, that you're not enjoying it anymore. Sounds like a self-repairing problem, if you ask me: Either quit playing the game out of frustration, or get over the "need" to level up without enjoying it.

Re:Let the B*tching Begin (0)

AuMatar (183847) | more than 8 years ago | (#13898369)

Yes, I do. My greatest sourse of fun in the game is PvP. If there was no PvP, I would not have bought the gaame. When I PvP, I like to win a decent percentage of the time- losing constantly isn't fun. If I don't get the levels, I will lose constantly (while a 1-2 level difference isn't much, a 10 is huge). So if I want to PvP, I need to get the levels. My choices are grind, or quit.

And there's a third option here- complain my fucking ass off. I'm a paying customer, the same as you are. I do *NOT* want a level cap raise. I know many people who agree with me. Blizzard pushed this as a casual, low grind game. I feel like I've been hit by a bait and switch here. Blizzard needs to set up some way to keep the game we love as it is, and not turn it into EQ/FFXI/Lineage. Perhaps setup a server with cap at 60 and the new content scaled down in levels, and offer open transfers to that server.

Re:Let the B*tching Begin (4, Interesting)

Thorkytel Ant-Head (593092) | more than 8 years ago | (#13898554)

Great, so you enjoy the PvP. So do I. You may find this hard to believe, but I actually have fun in PvP, even when I'm >gasp
And again, I am puzzled by your repeated claims that this is a casual, low-grind game. It is a casual, low-grind game. It's low-grind because you can do quests and play the game and still make progress in levels and abilities, not because you can hurry up and get to level 60 and then forget about experience altogether. That's not low-grind; that's front-loaded grind. That's you saying, "I hate grinding, and I hate games that force you to grind. Therefore, I am going to grind as much as I can, so I can level up quickly and get to a point where I don't have to worry about grinding anymore." It seems like your logic is hopelessly flawed in that respect.

And your attitude about bait-and-switch tactics is priceless. "Hey Blizzard! I expected the game to stay as it is, with only minor content changes, and preferably none at all! But instead, here you are creating new content, new skills, new talents and abilities, new characters, new realms to explore, new quests, new enemies, and new avenues of enjoyment that will satisfy me for years to come! Of course I'm upset!"

If you want a game that will stay the same forever, go buy a standard RPG. Blizzard always advertised World of Warcraft as a world that would be constantly changing and improving and expanding. People have been complaining for ages that Blizzard isn't introducing enough new content quickly enough...and here you are complaining that they are changing it too much? Like I said...priceless.

Re:Let the B*tching Begin (1)

AuMatar (183847) | more than 8 years ago | (#13899214)

I'm not complaining about new content. Instances, areas, quests- bring them on. Levels are not content. Levels are a grind. Its something devs throw in because they can't think of any real content to add, so they try to slow down your content consumption. They're proof of an incompetent dev team.

Re:Let the B*tching Begin (1)

Thorkytel Ant-Head (593092) | more than 8 years ago | (#13899517)

I disagree completely. Levels are there so that people will get a sense of progress and accomplishment. The developers realize that if you are handed everything on a silver platter, you won't enjoy it as much. The guy who spends hundreds of hours working towards his level 60 character will enjoy it much more than the guy who pays $100 to a levelling service. If everyone had access to everything from day one, what fun would that be? Having goals to work toward is what keeps people playing the game.

Re:Let the B*tching Begin (1)

AuMatar (183847) | more than 8 years ago | (#13899862)

It'd be a hell of a lot more fun. Leveling does not give a sense of accomplishment. Why not? Because leveling in and of itself is not worth accomplishing. A trained monkey could hit 60, given enough time. It was never in doubt that I could do it, if I had the patience. When I lost 80 pounds, that was an accomplishment. Max level in a video game? Nope.

And the "not earning it" line is bs anyway. In real life, if a friend buys you dinner does it taste bad? I mean, you didn't earn it. IOf course it doesn't. Do you feel like you failed at Quake when you use a railgun to kill someone- I mean, you didn't ear a railgun, you just picked it up. Of course not, a kill is a kill. Same thing in WoW- I didn't pay for a leveling service, but I have paid for gold. Did I feel like I missed out? Nope. Did I enjoy my epic mount even though I bought it? Yup. Did I enjoy the game more with it than without? Yup. Would I do it again? I don't need anything at the moment, but if I needed cash I'd buy it over grinding for it in a heartbeat.

You may play to achieve arbitrary goals. I don't. A substantial percentage of the player base does not. Its only the ex-EQ group who thinks like that. And catering to that crowd will not improve the game, it will just lose it a substantial number of players.

Re:Let the B*tching Begin (2, Insightful)

Teh Suq (655848) | more than 8 years ago | (#13899333)

For you, the game starts at 60. For me, the game ends at 60. Getting there is the game. Being there sucks. Adding 10 more levels of content is awesome and highly anticipated. I don't like PvP, there is nothing about it that is fun. Grouping up with friends and questing is the fun part. Playing rock/paper/scissors over and over again isn't fun, and that is what PvP is to me.

If they build it for you, they lose me. If they build it for me, they lose you. I have a feeling that they will do as they planned to do all along, and that is to continue to expand the game, adding content and levels.

It sounds like you would be better served by Guild Wars.

Re:Let the B*tching Begin (1)

Sierpinski (266120) | more than 8 years ago | (#13898142)

Its also going to totally FUBAR the skill trees. 10 more talent points. My shaman is now a 37/0/24 build. An instacast heal or lightning every 3 minutes and a garunteed crit every 5. Yeah, thats not imbalanced. Being able to get a 31 point talent in 1 tree and a 21 pointer in a second is not good- the game wasn't balanced around it.

Balance isn't about the amount of power/skills you have. It's about making sure that everyone has the same amount of power/skills available to them. Would it imbalance the game if only half of the people got 10 more talents points? Yes. If you give everyone the same opportunity, then the balance usually remains about the same. Obviously there are exceptions, but generally if you extend something to all people involved, then it should still be balanced.

On the other hand, if these are considered Epic levels, they might not even offer more talent points, and everyone just keeps the 51 points they have now.

Re:Let the B*tching Begin (0)

AuMatar (183847) | more than 8 years ago | (#13898282)

No, balance is very much about what skills you have. In PvE, you want to make sure everyone is useful, at least in some subset of situations. In PvP, the far more important thing to me, you need to make sure that the skills one person gets doesn't make it too strong compared to other classes. 10 more talents would be bad for PvE but you could work around it. It would completely destroy PvP balance. It allows new combos of skills to be used that give some classes huge advantages, and will turn a lot of PvP situations into a who saw who first game.

Re:Let the B*tching Begin (3, Interesting)

dividedsky319 (907852) | more than 8 years ago | (#13898185)

Leveling is something you do to get to the fun, it should be as short as possible (non-existant is preferable).

See, different strokes for different folks. Once I hit the level cap of 60, I didn't really care about playing anymore. What's the point of doing instances, PvP, quests, etc? To have a small percentage chance that you could get a new weapon? That's BORING to me. Leveling gave me a sense of progression. I hit 60, I got bored, I quit. (This was back in March that I quit... played from November to March. However, I joined again last week and started a new character)

Its also going to totally FUBAR the skill trees. 10 more talent points.

I highly doubt they'll just give out 10 more talent points and leave the trees as they are now. Blizzard isn't that stupid, they know how much this would imbalance things. They'll either add more talents, or give no talent points >60.

Re:Let the B*tching Begin (1)

AuMatar (183847) | more than 8 years ago | (#13898315)

Sense of progression? I can't see how that alone would be fun to anyone. SO you level and grind to 60 why? If you're not going to enjoy the content at 60, the entire grinding is a waste of time.

The problem is this- if I like to PvP, instance, etc it does not effect your fun. You can play on a PvE server (or even a PvP) and do your thing. Raising the level cap *does* effect my gameplay- I now have to get 10 more levels to do anything.

If you want a progression game, go play EQ or FFXI. Or Lineage or the other Asian MMOs which are even more hardcore grinding. I played WoW because it was supposed to be casual friendly low grind. Go play a game based around your playstyle and leave this to the rest of us.

Re:Let the B*tching Begin (1)

dividedsky319 (907852) | more than 8 years ago | (#13898394)

SO you level and grind to 60 why? If you're not going to enjoy the content at 60, the entire grinding is a waste of time.

Um... I "grinded" (actually, I didn't grind, I simply "played") becuase I enjoyed the content. I liked the quests. I liked going out hunting and earning gold and xp. Then once I hit 60, I couldn't do that anymore (xp, at least). How exactly is that a waste of time? I even stated that I recently started playing again, and started a new character. I enjoy 1-60 more than being level 60.

To me, it seems like YOU'RE the one playing the wrong game. You're essentially saying that to play the game YOU want to play, you have to be max level. Sounds to me like you just want to play multiplayer Warcraft 3 all over again... everyone starts with a clean slate at the beginning of every game.

The purpose of a MMORPG is about progression and developing your character, not about getting to a certain number so the "real" game begins.

Besides, with the level cap you can play just like you have been. Running the same instances, doing quests, etc... now you'll just be earning XP. Is it really going to have an effect on your game THAT much? Will you play differently now? I doubt it.

Re:Let the B*tching Begin (1)

AuMatar (183847) | more than 8 years ago | (#13898442)

The purpose of a MMORPG is about progression and developing your character, not about getting to a certain number so the "real" game begins.


No, its not. The purpose of an MMORPG is to play a fantasy based game in an MMO environment. EQ brought the idea of progression being everything, before that Ultima and its ilk had very little progression.

And yes, even EQ was very much grind to cap to start the real game. The real game of EQ, boring as it was, was raiding. YOu had ot be at or near cap to do that. The game in MMOs always starts at or near cap.

Besides, with the level cap you can play just like you have been. Running the same instances, doing quests, etc... now you'll just be earning XP. Is it really going to have an effect on your game THAT much? Will you play differently now? I doubt it.


Well, my current play is 95% PvP, 5% other. So yes, it does. You can't fight people effectively more than a few levels above you. So I will need to stop and grind, rather than having fun. I may quit over it- I did quit several other games (DAoC, FFXI, etc) over ridiculous grinding requirements.

Re:Let the B*tching Begin (1)

dividedsky319 (907852) | more than 8 years ago | (#13898545)

The purpose of an MMORPG is to play a fantasy based game in an MMO environment.

Right. But, everyone plays their own character. They're their own entity. They have personalities, as well as a level.

I guess I just see WoW as more than just a "game". I used to play Gemstone III, a text based MUD. When you were playing, you ONLY spoke of things in game. You don't mention the word "game" unless it was a game you were playing in character. You don't mention "xp til level" becuase that was OOC (out of character). The goal of the game was to develop your character... in level, with friends, with organizations...

It wasn't a race to some level. There was no level cap, but there were only monsters up to a certain level. It took me a year to get to level 20, and there were some (maybe 10-20 out of thousands) that were >100.

I don't know if it's me or you who's looking for the wrong thing in the game. We'll see where it goes. But if I wanted to play PvP, I'd play counterstrike, or Halo, or Warcraft III online. With those games, it's more about your skill level, not how long you've played to get ultra mega gear. Me? I just want to develop my character. I play on a PvE server and could care less about killing other players.

I may quit over it

No one's stopping you. No one stopped me when I first quit, it's not hard.

Re:Let the B*tching Begin (1)

UnHolyRam (732327) | more than 8 years ago | (#13898635)

No, its not. The purpose of an MMORPG is to play a fantasy based game in an MMO environment. EQ brought the idea of progression being everything, before that Ultima and its ilk had very little progression.

Actually Ultima had quite a bit of progression only it wasn't in the levels we now know. Then it was fight more to get better strength so that you can fight better people, and be more powerful than the PK's. Or it was cast spells to get better intelligence so that you can cast higher level spells. It was always about progression. They just did it a different way so you weren't worried about your next level.

Re:Let the B*tching Begin (1)

AuMatar (183847) | more than 8 years ago | (#13899235)

But Ultima's was over in next to no time- you could macro and be at max in days. The game wasn't about progressing, it was about what you did once you were 7xGM.

Re:Let the B*tching Begin (1)

Thorkytel Ant-Head (593092) | more than 8 years ago | (#13898654)

EverQuest did not bring the idea of progression to gaming. You may want to look in your history books for a little game called Dungeons and Dragons.

And why the comparisons to EverQuest? You admit that even the raiding game at the level cap was boring. And yet World of Warcraft should be looking to EverQuest as the model to follow? Just because you need to grind to level 60 in EverQuest, that doesn't mean that you have to in World of Warcraft.

And as for PvP, there is plenty of PvPing you can do without being at the level cap. There is always going to be someone more powerful than you, will better skills, better items, and more money. The sooner you accept this, the happier you'll be.

Sincerely, I hope you quit over this. It sounds like you see World of Warcraft as less of a game and more of a burden. You would probably be a lot happier doing something else. Maybe something in the real world, where you can progress to a certain point, and then know that you are at the maximum level possible for that skill...wait, what's that? You mean, life doesn't have a level cap? Wow. I guess you're screwed.

Re:Let the B*tching Begin (1)

mal3 (59208) | more than 8 years ago | (#13899166)

Dude quit whining about PVP. I routinly go into Arathi Basin as a lvl 40, fighting against lots of 49s, and I'm still effective. Myself and my roommates are 40, 42, and 43. We've run into parties of 5 guys 35-49, with at least 3 over 45 and kicked their asses. With good teamwork you don't have to be the highest level.

Re:Let the B*tching Begin (1)

DrEldarion (114072) | more than 8 years ago | (#13899706)

The idea of progression goes back WAY further than EQ, back to MUDs. P&P RPGs were a lot about roleplaying, but once they made the move online, numbers numbers numbers.

Re:Let the B*tching Begin (1)

ildon (413912) | more than 8 years ago | (#13898719)

Uh, if the game isn't supposed to start at 60 then how come all the raid content requires level 60? How come they are adding more raid content? How come there will be a ton of level 70 raid dungeons after the expansion comes out? It seems like you people who play from 1-60 and then quit the next day are the ones playing the wrong game. WoW was even advertised and hyped up as the MMO that started when you reached max level.

No I don't hard grind my characters to 60. I enjoy doing quests and instances and the process of leveling up. But I do it with the goal of that character participating in the end game content. My characters are intended to go to raids, to do battlegrounds, to complete quests to get gear and gain access to areas and to craft end game items and gather end game crafting resources.

You might have fun getting to 60 and quitting, that's fine. But I seriously doubt the players who do that are the ones Blizzard is banking their business model on. They want and need people who stay on after reaching max level and want to participate in the raid game. And FYI you don't need to devote 40 hrs a week to raid in WoW. Usually 8 a week is more than enough, as long as your guild's schedule matches with your free time.

Basically, leveling to 70 will be a short term hassle. Most 60's who already have raid gear will reach it in a week or three. But it's a hassle we were told was a remnant of older MMO's. Something we wouldn't have to deal with anymore.

Re:Let the B*tching Begin (1)

Thorkytel Ant-Head (593092) | more than 8 years ago | (#13899161)

Uh, if the game isn't supposed to start at 60 then how come all the raid content requires level 60?

Because there is more to the game than raid content. And if the game is supposed to start at 60, then why are they adding more lower-level raid content? As for the other questions: They are adding more level 60 raid content, and will be adding more level 70 raid dungeons in the expansion, because the content is heavily weighted towards higher-level players. That doesn't make the lower-level game any less fun.

WoW was even advertised and hyped up as the MMO that started when you reached max level.

Really? I'd like to see that quote from Blizzard. If that's their intention, then they did a pretty poor job, because I have had a whole bunch of fun even before level 60, when (according to you) my game hasn't even started yet. Perhaps Blizzard said that World of Warcraft would be the game that doesn't end when you reach max level, and you misinterpreted it.

And again, what is the problem with raising the level cap and adding more content? You can still enjoy the same Level 60 content you've been enjoying already...but now, you also have the added bonus of being able to progress even higher, so you can look forward to Level 70 content. I really don't see the problem here. It's only a hassle if you let it become one. For most of us, it will just be more fun.

Re:Let the B*tching Begin (3, Insightful)

snuf23 (182335) | more than 8 years ago | (#13899776)

Seeing as the release date hasn't even been announced... don't you think you might be a bit bored of running BWL, ZG and MC by then? Maybe looking for some fresh new dungeons? New content? High end 60+ quests in the new zone? Not to mention that it will get easier to get everyone in your guild their 60 level epic gear with a team of 61+ in the high end raids.
I don't know about you but I'm kind of getting bored of running the same dungeons over and over again. I mean yeah it's great to make progression through them at the high end, but sometimes it just seems pointless and repetitive.

Re:Let the B*tching Begin (2, Insightful)

Thorkytel Ant-Head (593092) | more than 8 years ago | (#13898420)

And if you're not going to enjoy the process of playing the game, then the entire game is a waste of time. If you didn't have fun until you got to level 60, then I honestly don't know how you got that far. You must have a masochistic streak to spend hundreds of hours not having fun, just so you can get to level 60 and start enjoying the game.

And saying, "I now have to get 10 more levels to do anything" is a complete strawman. How does raising the level cap affect one bit the things you can do now? You will have the exact same access to the exact same instances, quests, and PvP that you have now. The only difference is, you'll have this little XP bar that slowly progresses as you're playing. And eventually, when you level up, you will gain access to new skills and abilities that will make you more powerful, and give you more access to more content. So you're getting more content; you're not getting anything taken away.

And for someone who thinks that WoW is a "casual friendly low grind,"you certainly seem to be obsessed with the need to grind! Maybe you should take your own advice.

You might be more annoyed when you realize (2, Informative)

DJ Wipeout (139210) | more than 8 years ago | (#13897887)

...that all the experience you could have gotten after hitting 60 (especially doing high end quests and whatnot) might be able to put you at level 62 or 63 at this point (depending on how long you've been 60) instead of being wasted. It would be really cool though, if Blizzard had kept track of all the XP players got beyond 60 and awarded it. I doubt that will happen though.

Re:Let the B*tching Begin (2, Informative)

ildon (413912) | more than 8 years ago | (#13898569)

The reason for the complaint is valid, and it has to do with their existing itemization system.

Currently, the best items in the game are required level 60 epic items. By being epic quality over superior quality, the amount of stats available on the item is increased by a certain amount. Up until 60, the "item level" is usually 5 levels above the "required level" to equip the item. After 60, however, you see item levels as high as 83 on drops from Nefarian, currently the hardest boss in the game. So logically, if you're level 70, Molten Core and Blackwing Lair, currently the hardest dungeons, will actually be extremely easy. Additionally, the rewards from this dungeon will be item level 76-83 epics. Your average blue drop from a level 70 5 man dungeon will be an item level 75 superior item. This means an easier, lower level dungeon, will have vastly more powerful rewards. This is why people like myself were confident that the level cap wouldn't be raised, and are disappointed it was.

Before WoW came out, Blizzard said they wanted to move away from the level grind treadmill. They wanted getting to level 60 to be the start of the game, not the end. Raising the level cap goes against this. It reintroduces the treadmill people thought they were done with. Additionally, it completely breaks the current balance of the talent point system (Presence of mind + Arcane power + Pyroblast anyone? Not to mention Deathwish + Mortal Strike + Flurry. Or for you shaman haters out there, nature's swiftness, improved windfury, clearcasting, and fully buffed shocks).

Let's not forget the thousands of level 60 characters who have killed million of mobs and done a hundred or so quests (with XP rewards as high as 10k) without getting even a nudge on their XP bar.

I'm not saying it won't work out, because if anyone can make it work it's probably Blizzard. It's just from where I'm standing now, raising the level cap goes against what they've implied in the past and looks like a mistake.

Re:Let the B*tching Begin (1)

dividedsky319 (907852) | more than 8 years ago | (#13898851)

They wanted getting to level 60 to be the start of the game, not the end. Raising the level cap goes against this

Then they need to have some other type of incentive for running instances or going on raids. The small chance a drop that you can use will drop, and that you'll get the high roll, isn't worth the time or effort.

Re:Let the B*tching Begin (3, Insightful)

Thorkytel Ant-Head (593092) | more than 8 years ago | (#13899030)

Your average blue drop from a level 70 5 man dungeon will be an item level 75 superior item.

Could you provide an example of this? Just name the level 70 dungeon, and one of the level 75 superior drops.

...

What? You can't name one? Oh, you mean there actually aren't any level 70 dungeons yet? So basically, you're making complete speculation, and then using that as the basis for criticism. Hey, maybe a level 70 dungeon will drop level 95 Legendary items. Maybe they'll only drop greens. Maybe each creature will drop 50 runecloth. It's a little too early to be guessing, and then passing judgment based on that guess.

Let me address a few more points while I'm here...

Yes, Blizzard wanted World of Warcraft to be different from your typical level-grind treadmill. However, contrary to popular belief, they did not do this by making everyone grind to level 60, and then declaring that the end of the grind. They did it by making it possible to have fun and progress in the game without being forced to grind. There is a marked difference between "grinding" and "gaining levels." Grinding is repeating the same tedious actions over and over again, for the sole purpose of gaining experience (typically through killing monsters). World of Warcraft alleviates this by providing numerous quests which, although they may have killing monsters as one element, provide the sense of actually working towards the completion of a quest line and the associated rewards. They make it fun to get to level 60, and they have plenty of content so it's fun once you get to level 60.

So what will change when the level cap is raised? Nothing. It will still be fun at level 60, it will be fun working up to level 70, and it will be fun at level 70. I really don't see what the problem is. If you think that when Blizzard said "no grinding,"they meant "no grinding once you reach level 60,"then you are mistaken.

As for the talent points, am I the only one who read the press release? "...every new level will offer meaningful spell, ability, and talent upgrades for each character class." Did it say, "...every new level will offer another talent point to be added to the previous talent tree"? No. Given Blizzard's love for talent trees, and the work they have done to balance them, it seems reasonable to assume that they aren't going to piss that away by allowing 31/0/30 builds. I would presume a completely new talent tree from 60-70. But then again, I don't know. However, I am reserving judgment until we get all the facts.

As for the people who completed quests as level 60 without getting a nudge in their XP bar...so? The level cap was 60 at that point. If I run headfirst into a brick wall, I'm not going to complain if someone puts a doorway there six months later. And besides, isn't having no XP bar part of your vaunted "getting rid of the grind"?

From where I'm standing, your complaints about Blizzard come from a mistaken interpretation of their previous intentions.

Re:Let the B*tching Begin (2, Insightful)

buffer-overflowed (588867) | more than 8 years ago | (#13899832)

It's as if thousands of e-peens cried out and were suddenly silenced. It's just gear, it's deprecated every time a new raid instance comes out. BWL and ZG loot negates MC loot. The upcoming Silithus dungeon loot will negate the BWL/ZG loot. Another dungeon will negate that. And the expansion will negate all of it. Typical MMO progression. No real shocker.

And it's not like people are somehow better just because they can get 40 people together to do the high end content every week. That attitude blizz has of catering to the EQ bluebie crowd is really grating on the casual/small FPS crossover guild people that make up the vast majority of WoW's playerbase. If you wanted EQ, you should've stuck to EQ.

There's never been any doubt that the level cap was going to be raised. We've been expecting it sometime this year or early next year. They were hinting at it being likely as far back as beta.

Re:Let the B*tching Begin (1)

ronjeremysjohnson (899273) | more than 8 years ago | (#13898776)

Maybe by complaining we hope we can get some changes before release. I personally have always played Horde and think BElves are an unimaginative addition. Really just a god awful idea. I like the idea of the level cap increase but I completely understand why others do not. They have spent a lot of time getting epic items which would not be considered good to a 70. So what you think is what everyone should do is just shut up and not have opinions because you like the info you have seen so far?

Re:Let the B*tching Begin (2, Insightful)

dividedsky319 (907852) | more than 8 years ago | (#13899079)

I personally have always played Horde and think BElves are an unimaginative addition. Really just a god awful idea.

For what reason?

IMO, I think it's a good move to give the Horde a "pretty" race. Before, people were complaining becuase so many more people played Alliance than Horde. This made PvP somewhat imbalanced. Alliance vs Horde isn't necessarily "pretty/good" vs "ugly/bad" as it's made out to be. This may balance out the numbers a bit.

They have spent a lot of time getting epic items which would not be considered good to a 70.

This is a game. They played to have fun. If they didn't have fun while doing it, they shouldn't be playing. WoW isn't a chore. There's no true "end". If it stayed at 60 and they got all of an epic set, then what? Maybe a 10 level jump is too big a jump too fast, but it had to happen eventually.

Re:Let the B*tching Begin (1)

ronjeremysjohnson (899273) | more than 8 years ago | (#13899339)

I think it's a good move to give the Horde a "pretty" race.

Thats exactly why I dont want them. You insinuate that the sides need to be evened but I dont think this is true. Your problem will be solved with cross server battlegrounds, not giving the Horde belves.

By allowing users to choose between a "pretty" weak race and an "ugly" strong race I think it really has allowed people to make a decision as important as class. I think for the most part similar personalilties will gravitate towards a common side making it possible to meet a lot of people you like to party with. I hardly ever see people dancing naked in Org, which I think is great. If I decided naked dancing was important to my gameplay experience I could make an alliance and go to ironforge.

I would have rathered Ogres with a two headed model. Then I could "/say" and each time a different head could speak. Or give us goblins so we have a hard to click race!

(i consider the horde stronger because they get shamans, will of the forsaken, orc stun resist and warstomp)

Re:Let the B*tching Begin (1)

mmalove (919245) | more than 8 years ago | (#13899548)

I have to admit, seeing elves on the horde side is going to be a shocker. But the poster was right, introducing a more appealing race to the horde will help balance them out. I always pictured some kind of demonic or elemental race joining the horde, I guess the blood elves aren't far off. I think the horde just ends up stronger in even matches because they are trained to fight superior numbers in field battles. That and you tend to remove those players interested in the appeal of their character's figure and have more players focused on skill and itemization. Both will become slightly more balanced, in fact I predict a good half the servers will jump on the blood elves just like night elves were the fad in open beta. Level 70 will open talent options, but it will still force certain strategic decisions : you still can't put 31 points into 2 seperate trees, so one will still be dominant. Now if Blizzard could just fix all the 7th tier talents to be worth debating... By the way, I have to disagree with the statement that servers don't need balanced out - especially pvp oriented servers. In the open field, the underdog gets dominated by a swarm of opposition, and in battlegrounds, the superior force has to wait in 2 hour queues to get in, the boredom tends to lead them back to the field to further grief the other side. I was on a server that was well balanced, then Blizzard opened realm transfers there and in the end the alliance held a lot more players after the transfer. Our forums became flooded with them crying that the horde never joined enough battlegrounds, when the reality is that there weren't enough horde players to make it fun. Also the entrance to blackrock mountain became a point of constant ganking from the frustrated alliance members that could not find any player vs player action elsewhere.

How are MMORPG expansions handled? (1)

thenetbox (809459) | more than 8 years ago | (#13897615)

How are MMORPG expansions handled? What happens to the people who decide not to buy it?

Re:How are MMORPG expansions handled? (3, Informative)

Surye (580125) | more than 8 years ago | (#13897674)

Q: Do you need to own the expansion to play with friends who have it?
A: There will be many aspects of the expansion that are available to all players. However, in order to experience certain content, such as the Outlands, or be able to play as one of the new races, players will have to purchase the expansion.


RTFA?

Re:How are MMORPG expansions handled? (1)

Sierpinski (266120) | more than 8 years ago | (#13898021)

When I played Ultima Online way back, they handled expansions mostly by introducing new lands, which you had to get to via some type of portal. Those portals would only be active for those who purchased the expansion and upgraded their account (no extra charge) on the game website. Sometimes that included new artwork for the new expansion items, so the non-expansion players could still see them. (Usually when an expansion came out, there was a patch to the non-expansion clients with the artwork.) New creatures usually used old artwork until such a patch. For example, a unicorn (expansion creature, a new ridable mount) would appear like a horse, only as a color that no other normal horse in the game could be.

I'm curious to see how WoW handles it myself, although I'm sure I'll pick it up. Besides, I can't be the only one in my guild who doesn't have it!

Re:How are MMORPG expansions handled? (1)

falcon5768 (629591) | more than 8 years ago | (#13899022)

Nothing really, they just cant go to the new areas. I know FFXI has handled it so that not only do you not have to have the expansion to play the game, but that the storys inolved with the expansions hint to but dont hold their weight to the other ones, so that while you would get a fuller story if you owned BOTH Zilart and CoP, you dont need Zilart to play CoP.

A great indication of this is if you do make it past the promivion missions in CoP and talk to the Duke in Jeuno, there the Duke is away. To those playing CoP without doing Zilart it doesnt mean much but to those who have played both you know the Duke is infact dead, killed by your own hand when he and his brother reveal themselves to be the evil Zilart race of pre-Vana'Diel.

I know with FFXI though that while you couldnt go to certain new areas, you can get items FROM those areas through selling and trading.

Wait what? (1)

SandMonkey (926467) | more than 8 years ago | (#13897757)

The blood elves? Oh bilzzard how could you? They just had to "pretty up" the hoard didn't they... Personally I would have liked to have been able to play as the burning legion... hated and against both factions (Hoard and alliance) they could have been a cool addition... but then most people just call me an idiot and tell me to "Shutta the hell up". Other than that the new expansion looks amazing and I can't wait for it to come out!

Re:Wait what? (2, Insightful)

GravelordBocephus (873797) | more than 8 years ago | (#13897877)

Personally, I think it'd kill even more of the Warcraft flavor if you could play as the Burning Legion. I mean, it's bad enough that you have proud orc warriors going "cna u spair sum gold plx???", I don't want to see newbie demons running away from level 2 scorpions.

And curse them for giving the Horde blood elves. It's the lack of a pretty horde race that keeps most of the twelve year olds on the Alliance.

Re:Wait what? (1)

Thorkytel Ant-Head (593092) | more than 8 years ago | (#13897952)

Enh, I think it's fine. Give the Horde a pretty race...maybe it'll even up the balance of players a bit. I imagine that most younglings will still flock to the Alliance though. Everyone wants to be Aragorn, and no one wants to be Orc With Sword Through Neck.

Re:Wait what? (1)

Wyatt Earp (1029) | more than 8 years ago | (#13898306)

I went Alliance because I like dwarves. Played dwarves in AD&D, Shadowrun and now WoW.

Haven't gotten into Horde, not sure why, guess I don't like thier starting areas much at all.

Re:Wait what? (1)

snuf23 (182335) | more than 8 years ago | (#13899804)

Yeah I think they are trying to give the horde a pretty race to attract more people. I also wouldn't be surprised if the Alliance gets Pandarens as a counterpoint to the fuzzy Taurens.

Memoirs of an ex-WOW-addict (2, Insightful)

bradbeattie (908320) | more than 8 years ago | (#13897788)

I remember when I first started playing World of Warcraft. Everything was brand new and exciting. There was a sense of adventure and exploration that justified the hours I put into that game. Some friends and I even started up our own guild and we had a blast. The game was fun. Problem was, that sense of novelty eventually wore off. All that was left was repetative questing and grinding for XP to reach the ultimate goal of level 60. After weeks of sleepless nights, I finally made it. I stood on top of the XP mountain and felt accomplished, but it's cold at the top and I wondered what was left for me. In the following weeks, I got bored enough to walk away from WoW and cancel my subscription. I didn't much want to play when I first started and somewhat hated myself in that long stretch from 30 to 60. So that freedom was relieving. Now that I'm free, do I really want to start that process over again? Knowing what I know now, why would I subject myself to such a time-sink that ultimately provided me with little entertainment? I think I'm going to steer clear of this expansion. Besides, City of Villains is coming out soon. (I kid, I kid)

Re:Memoirs of an ex-WOW-addict (5, Insightful)

Thorkytel Ant-Head (593092) | more than 8 years ago | (#13897905)

You know, I used to be like you. I went through a period of time when I was just grinding away, staying up late to complete one more quest, then running back to turn it in, then heading to the capital city to buy more spells and abilities...and yeah, I eventually got burnt out. But then, you know what I realized?

I realized that I can stop playing for a while, then come back later, and the quests and the world will still be there.

Personally, I've had much more fun logging on less frequently, feeling like I've accomplished something, and then logging off. I have no desire to get burned out on the game, and I realized that reaching level 60 isn't the goal. Ultimately, the goal is to have fun playing the game. If your only goal is to get to 60, then you're sure to be disappointed when you get there, because it feels a lot like 59. But if you take your time and have fun playing, then level 60 will just be another opportunity to find some new dungeons, new quests, and new items. Moderation in all things. The journey is its own reward.

Re:Memoirs of an ex-WOW-addict (2, Insightful)

Chi Hsuan Men (767453) | more than 8 years ago | (#13898659)

This is perhaps the most eloquent post I have ever read in regards to describing what is wrong with the MMORPG mentality.

I love playing WoW; however, I have balance my play time my real life. I have a job that requires my attention and I'm a rather athletic person, so I need time away from the office and away from my home PC to exercise at the gym or find a pickup game of one sport or another. On top of this, I have recently started taking advanced technical courses in order to educate myself further and hopefully advance my career in IT / IS. As a result, my time to play games has seriously dwindled and I am forced to make decisions on a regular basis as to when to study, when to exercise, and when to play games.

When I first started my course, I realized that I wouldn't be able to keep up with my guild and I started stressing out. I was worried that my guild would kick me out (they didn't) and was worried that I would not get all of my epic set pieces in x amount of time so I could spend time leveling my alt, getting it to a point where I could then get the alt's epic set pieces...

...so begins the vicious cycle.

I took a step back and re-thought why I was playing the game. I was playing the game because I liked to escape into the world of Azeroth and play the part of the hero, all the while having a few laughs with my friends and guildmates either on in-game chat or on teamspeak. So, that's what I did. I calmed down and didn't worry that I was missing a raid so I could go play basketball or study some more. I realized that the next epic set piece was going to be there when I had time to go get it, when I actually wanted to go get it.

Gaming should never be a chore or an agonizing frustration. The second a game becomes either, it's time to unplug and do something else. I promise, the game will be there when you get back.

Re:Memoirs of an ex-WOW-addict (1)

Number13 (641387) | more than 8 years ago | (#13899611)

Here's the problem: The game has a subscription fee. If it's just sitting on your hard drive not being played for a week or four, doesn't it feel like a waste of money?

Re:Memoirs of an ex-WOW-addict (1)

Thorkytel Ant-Head (593092) | more than 8 years ago | (#13899676)

Nope. I pay so I can play the game when I want, but it makes little sense to feel like I have to play just because I paid for a subscription. There is enough in the game so that I feel like I'm getting my money's worth. Maybe if I get to a point where I'm not playing at all, and don't foresee ever playing again, then I might cancel completely. But as of right now, I've gotten more hours of entertainment out of World of Warcraft, dollar for dollar, then nearly any other game I own.

Re:Memoirs of an ex-WOW-addict (4, Insightful)

Gulthek (12570) | more than 8 years ago | (#13898177)

Why was level 60 the goal? Was the fun of the game not merit enough?

Is the point of a piece of music to reach the finale?

When you dance is it to arrive at a particular spot on the floor at the end?

Re:Memoirs of an ex-WOW-addict (1)

venicebeach (702856) | more than 8 years ago | (#13898459)

Why was level 60 the goal? Was the fun of the game not merit enough?

I think part of what makes games like this interesting is how they capitalize on our goal/reward system. They try to find the spot where you have a tangible goal, which is just difficult to be totally engaging - not too difficult to be frustrating, and not too easy to be boring. This is what humans apparently want to do, we find it immensely rewarding. (See Csikszentmihalyi's idea of flow [apa.org] for some good theory and research about this).

I recently started playing w.o.w., but one of the things that impresses me about it is that they way it acheives the appropriate level of challenge is by leaving many levels of challenge open for the player to find the right one. Rather than trying to predict exactly how difficult each task needs to be, the player naturally finds the tasks that are at the right level. There are goals and sub-goals, rewards little and small, all aimed at giving you opportunities to engage yourself.

The expansion seems to be an attempt to provide more opportunities to find this sweet spot once you have reached level 60. It's just a fact of human nature that we tend not to be satisfied; apparently we like to have things to acheive even if they are fictional...

Re:Memoirs of an ex-WOW-addict (1)

Rhys (96510) | more than 8 years ago | (#13898490)

I had a friend do the same pattern.

He came back when I joined WoW (9 months after release) for some mad PvP action.

Good times. Don't want to be bored? Get a few friends and make alliance alts. Twink yourselves up, and hit 20-29 PvP (or the 60s which run more but I'm not that high yet, but my 29 horde shaman has hit where he needs to).

Heck, even 10-19 WSG runs nightly.

Alliance race? (1)

Kirsha (201264) | more than 8 years ago | (#13897800)

Anyone got any idea of what the alliance new race could be?

My memories of the previous games ar ekind of rusty, but I can't think of any other than the elves, humans, etc, that are already in the game.

Re:Alliance race? (1)

lscotte (450259) | more than 8 years ago | (#13897915)

Possibly Pandaren, but I hope not.... Pandas seem like a pretty weak idea for a race.

Re:Alliance race? (1)

Kirsha (201264) | more than 8 years ago | (#13897997)

Wasnt the pandaren a joke for aprils fools? I doubt those count.

Re:Alliance race? (1)

The Snowman (116231) | more than 8 years ago | (#13898381)

Wasnt the pandaren a joke for aprils fools? I doubt those count.

There is a Panda hero in Warcraft 3. I think it started out as a joke, but turned out to be real -- sort of like the secret cow level in Diablo 2.

Re:Alliance race? (1)

Kirsha (201264) | more than 8 years ago | (#13898492)

I also saw zergs in Warcraft 3. I doubt that means they became part of the Warcraft world.

Re:Alliance race? (1)

CaptMonkeyDLuffy (623905) | more than 8 years ago | (#13898671)

The Pandaren are available at two points in W3:TFT. One is during the standard campaign, as a bonus for completing a hidden level. Much like the zerg, a hidden bonus. Easily argued to not be a 'part of the lore.'

The second time was in the quasi-RPG Orc campaign, where it was one of the members of your small party. Definitely not a 'hidden bonus.' Like it or not, Pandaren as of The Frozen Throne are definitely a part of the Warcraft Universe 'for real.' Shoot, there's even a quest that references the Pandaren in WoW already...

Re:Alliance race? (1)

Kirsha (201264) | more than 8 years ago | (#13898856)

Thats enough for me then!
To be honest, I never got too far in Frozen Throne. I should give it another spin sometime soon. Thanks for the information.

Re:Alliance race? (1)

The Snowman (116231) | more than 8 years ago | (#13899562)

There are zerglings in World of Warcraft. If you had a beta account, you could get a special pet that no vendor sells. Also, some or all people who attend Blizzcon can get a special pet as well, including zerglings.

Re:Alliance race? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#13899602)

I'm hoping for Pandaren or Dranei, either would be sweet

Re:Alliance race? (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#13898169)

Possible candidates are:
  - Draenei. The little misshapen "Lost Ones" you can find in Swamp of Sorrows, displaced from their homeworld of Draenor when it blew up into Outland. Oops. They hate orcs with a passion, making them contenders for a new alliance race.
  - Pandaren. These big bears are actualy creatures in the Warcraft universe, although Pandaren Express may not exist
  - Furbolgs. This is dubious as the only un-corrupted race of furbolgs, the Timbermaw, are wary of outsiders
  - High elves. This is unlikely as there are few left, as most were killed or joined the Blood Elves. However, they have allied with the alliance before, but two types of elves in one faction would be a bit much.
  - Naga. The amphibious former elves are loyal to their sea-witch queen, but that's not to say that they they won't defect from her tyranny. Unlikely to happen, but possible.
  - Murlocs. Nnngrrgrlgrlgrrrllgh! (Translation: rather unintelligent amphibious pests, they swoon for Azshara and worship her, similar to the naga, but aren't likely to ally with anyone, much less learn to speak common).
  - Keepers of the Grove/Dryads: offspring of Cenarion and the elves, they're pretty much night elves with a deer's body. Unlikely as they care more about nature than alliances with the mortal races.
  - Ghosts. Killed in battle but unable to move to the next world, the tortured souls may seek to aid their allies of old. Highly unlikely.
We'll find out soon, but I'd wager it'd be one of those races.

Re:Alliance race? (1)

jayhawk88 (160512) | more than 8 years ago | (#13898797)

You know I bet Dryads would be a high possibility. A very unique race for the alliance that is totally doable. Yeah they're all about nature but so are the Taurens, it would take nothing to add a bit to the story where Dryads are "called into battle the Horde" or whatever.

Re:Alliance race? (1)

Alcilbiades (859596) | more than 8 years ago | (#13898319)

Knowing bliz's pension for giving alliance the weird crap I could venture to guess goblins.

Re:Alliance race? (1)

Kirsha (201264) | more than 8 years ago | (#13898384)

Gnomes AND goblins? I doubt it. Besides, they are neutral. I doubt they would join the alliance.

Re:Alliance race? (1)

Alcilbiades (859596) | more than 8 years ago | (#13899402)

The blood elf outside of MC is neutral also but they are going to the horde. Why not Crappy goblins for allinace. Or they may come up with something equally retarded of a race that should be horde but give them to the alliance.

Re:Alliance race? (1)

ALeavitt (636946) | more than 8 years ago | (#13898588)

If they're opening up Outworld, it would make sense to have the Draenei. In the Warcraft universe, they are the original inhabitants of Outworld, along with the Orcs. The Orcs killed most of them, but there are some pockets of Draenei on Outworld. Also, there are some in World of Warcraft already, in the Swamp of Sorrows, but they're insane cast-offs of their people, and are just creatures to be killed for XP. It seems like a logical choice for Blizzard to add as a playable race, and because they hate the Orcs, they fit in nicely on the Alliance side.

Re:Alliance race? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#13898894)

As I recall, the Draenei and the Blood Elves are on the same side. I would prefer the addition of a new faction, personally. The Blood Elves, Naga, and Draenei are sworn to the service of the Burning Legion. There's no reason any of them should join either of the existing factions. I don't like the way the current factions are laid out, anyway. Why would the Horde have anything to do with the Undead? If the Undead were going to be playable, they should have been a separate faction in the first place. They could have been split up into "races" such as ghouls, skeletons, and Nerubians.

Putting the Night Elves on the human side only makes slightly more sense. The Night Elves should detest the humans' use of magic, not to mention gnomish technology. It was a tenuous alliance at best during the Reign of Chaos.

I understand that having two factions is probably easier gameplay-wise, but it still bothers me. I'm currently trying the game out courtesy of a friend's guest pass, but I haven't decided whether to buy it. I like it well enough, but everytime I see an undead character run by, it pulls me right out of the game.

Re:Alliance race? (1)

Incoherent07 (695470) | more than 8 years ago | (#13899868)

Your first paragraph isn't exactly correct. Kael and Vashj swore allegiance to Illidan, then all of them went to Outland with him. I've heard two explanations for why they would be joining the existing factions. One is that this is a group of Blood Elves that is abandoning Illidan, the other is that this is a deliberate ploy by Illidan to infiltrate the two factions; whether this works remains to be seen. It does, however, make sense that the Blood Elves go with the Horde (who can empathize with their wanting to be free of their magic addiction, and because of Sylvanas), and you can argue for why the Draenei would go with the Alliance (basically they hate orcs, because the orcs slaughtered them back in Draenor). At any rate I expect both of these factions to have similar status to the Undead in the current game: namely, they start with "neutral" reputation with all other races in their faction, and all other races start with "neutral" to them (with the exception of Blood Elves and Undead).

Regarding the status of Undead: two things. First, there are two "factions" of undead: the Forsaken and the Scourge. The Scourge are essentially the Undead of Warcraft 3, led by Arthas (now the Lich King after the events of Frozen Throne). The Forsaken are more or less the remains of the kingdom of Lordaeron, who are now undead due to Arthas's actions and are led by Sylvanas, formerly a High Elf Ranger. When Arthas left for Northrend, his power over a number of them faded, so they are now independent of him. This also explains why all of the Forsaken you see are more or less ex-humans. They are, as you'd imagine, none too happy with Arthas over him making them undead, and thus they are against the Scourge.

Why did they join the Horde? From their perspective, it was an alliance of convenience. The Alliance can't tell the difference between the Forsaken and the Scourge. So in that respect they share common enemies. Also, I believe the Tauren think they can "cure" the Forsaken of their undead-ness. And, as mentioned before, none of the Horde races initially trust the Forsaken, so if you start a Horde character you'll notice you start as neutral to the Forsaken, and if you're Forsaken you start as neutral to all other races.

Someone post the article? (1)

Dauntilus (772786) | more than 8 years ago | (#13897816)

Can someone post the article? Can't get to the WoW website from this connection. Thanks

Re:Someone post the article? (1)

kosanovich (678657) | more than 8 years ago | (#13897924)

it's not really an article, it's a website for the game. Posting it would be very difficult.

Artwork dates back to 2003 (2, Informative)

ChaseTec (447725) | more than 8 years ago | (#13897917)

Notice the date on this sketch of a female blood elf [worldofwarcraft.com]. Yeah, I know it could have been part of some back story for the original game but it makes me wonder if things were removed from the original game to provide content for an expansion pack.

Re:Artwork dates back to 2003 (1)

tesseract5d (871694) | more than 8 years ago | (#13898127)

actually, i used to write "drafts" this way for papers in high school and college. i would generally create the final product, then remove and reorganize ideas until it seems less polished, and turn that in when they asked for a draft...never get the hopes up too high on the first take!

Re:Artwork dates back to 2003 (1)

_xeno_ (155264) | more than 8 years ago | (#13898292)

There already are Blood Elves in the game, though, they're just not playable. And the vast majority of them are at war with the Horde. (Um...) So it's not like the artwork wasn't used in the original game despite being developed, it's just that it wasn't fully fleshed out into a full race.

So, with that out of the way, here are my thoughts on the expansion.

First off, Blood Elves as Horde members. Um. The Horde is now only 3/5ths Horde, and now 2/5ths "other." So, uh, yay Blizzard. Keep that Warcraft Horde feeling going!

The level 70 cap: HOW does that work? Are you going to be giving us more talent points, utterly destroying the current talent trees? (Dark Pact/Ruin, here I come!) Do you simply not receive any new talents for leveling up past 60, and only gain new abilities? (Fear my new Rank X+1 Spell, which looks identical to Rank X, but does 50 more damage! Magic in WoW looks lame.) Or is it just going to be more stats - yay?

Socketed items? Enough people were already calling this Diablo III. Blech. What do you think Enchanting is, then? Wasn't that essentially socketed items? I can see a way for it to work, assuming that sockets are filled via trade skills (please, please, PLEASE, make trade skills useful in the expansion), but socketed item?

I dunno, I'm just not that excited about this expansion. Outland might be cool.

Re:Artwork dates back to 2003 (1)

shigelojoe (590080) | more than 8 years ago | (#13898475)

I can see a way for it to work, assuming that sockets are filled via trade skills (please, please, PLEASE, make trade skills useful in the expansion), but socketed item?

IIRC, Blizzard also announced a Jewelcrafting trade skill that will most likely be used to enhance socketed items.

Re:Artwork dates back to 2003 (1)

_xeno_ (155264) | more than 8 years ago | (#13898530)

See, this concept scares me. So, Jewelcrafting is going to create jewels - let's call them enchantments - to place on items that use sockets.

So, uh, what's the point of enchanting, then?! It's way too easy to see Blizzard set this up in such a way that the two clash.

I dunno, I really need more details, but from what they've given us, the expansion sounds lame, outside of Outland.

Re:Artwork dates back to 2003 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#13898550)

First off, Blood Elves as Horde members. Um. The Horde is now only 3/5ths Horde, and now 2/5ths "other." So, uh, yay Blizzard. Keep that Warcraft Horde feeling going!
Backstory: The orcs, trolls, and tauren are undeniably part of the horde. The trolls are grateful that the orcs saved them from their island and pledged loyalty to the orcs. The tauren are grateful for the help in combatting their hated enemies, the centaur. The Forsaken are using the other races as an means to an end, and likely Blood Elves will too. Thrall is the leader of the horde, with the leaders of the taurens and trolls bowing to him as their superior (although he still treats them as equals, lore says). The Horde is a united group of three races with (now) two races allied with them.

Compare that to the alliance. The dwarves are amical with the humans and will defend them during war. Nice. The gnomes are curious little buggers who didn't help the alliance in the second war because they were fighting a losing battle for their home city and didn't want to ask for help. Now they live with dwarves, leeching off them and doing little to help the alliance, other than their inventions. The night elves lost their immortality and are allying with the humans because the humans have potential. Humans themselves are factionalized: there were many nations of humans who originalyl united to form the alliance, but they have never been one people. Jaina is the supposed leader of the alliance forces. Yet most humans see the King of Stormwind as their ruler. The gnomes have their own leader, the dwarves their own king, and the night elves their own leaders. The Alliance is a factionedgroup of four races (soon to be five) with no common leader, allying only for defense and to honor old debts.

The Horde is a unified group. The Alliance is a loose collection of people who won't kill each other. I say the horde is living up to its name, as is the Alliance. Where's the problem?

Re:Artwork dates back to 2003 (1)

borkus (179118) | more than 8 years ago | (#13899529)

Actually, I'm just bummed that it will ruin PvP for the Horde. With Elves on the Horde side all the twelve-year-old boys will be rolling Horde. Well, at least both sides will have an even number of Elf rogues named Riddick (Ridik, Ridic, etc) running wily-nilly to get Honorable Kills.

Draenei would be...interesting...kind of like playing a moldy muppet.

Re:Artwork dates back to 2003 (1)

Rhys (96510) | more than 8 years ago | (#13898502)

Female Blood Elves are already in the game, there's one in Sun Rock Retreat, Stonetalon Mountains. I forget what quest she gives (but with a 29, 25, and 42, I've seen a lot of it recently). I think she's the kill-nature-spirits up north by the alliance outpost in Stonetalon.

Alliance Race? (1)

Puhase (911920) | more than 8 years ago | (#13898603)

I'm a warcrafter from the very beginning the only humanoid race I can think of offhand that isnt evil is the Pandarens. On the horde side there are were ogres and goblins and they didn't go with either of those (to my disappointment). Has anyone read the books? They seem to reference them and those tomes may clue us in to any alliance additions that have gone on.

Re:Alliance Race? (1)

Bluetick (516014) | more than 8 years ago | (#13899061)

I've heard they were going to put Pandarens in, but they were removed from the game because the Chinese government wouldn't allow Blizz to sell the product in China. Has to do with some law in China about it being illegal to kill pandas. Sounds farfetched, but part of me wonders what would happen in this country if someone did a remake of Duck Hunt and called it Bald Eagle Hunt. Everyone's second guess seems to be speculative (Draenei are mentioned a lot though).

Detailed reviews from IGN and some other mag. (2, Informative)

JavaLord (680960) | more than 8 years ago | (#13898704)

IGN preview [ign.com]

Pretty interesting stuff, yey for linked AH's. No mention of the paladin revamp in 1.9, sounds like ..they haven't started fixing the class they revamped two weeks before launch yet. The 'scripted world event' in 1.9 sounds cool though.

PC mag pages:
Page one [photobucket.com]
Page two [photobucket.com]
Page three [photobucket.com]
Page four [photobucket.com]
Page five [photobucket.com]

I'm a bit disapointed, with all this info I see nothing that makes me happy as a pvp player. I'd like to hear about a FFA pvp server type, but I don't think we are getting it.

Blizzard likes your money? (1)

Blaaguuu (886777) | more than 8 years ago | (#13898809)

Does anyone else think it is a tad strange that Blizzard is making people pay $15 a month (i think taht the ammount) to play their game, and making people pay for new content... most companies seem to use part of the monthly payment as paying for content updates... like Lineage 2, where you payed monthly, and the devs made cosntant small updates and patches, and every once in a while released a free massive expansion pack. Then there Guild Wars (ok, not REALLY an mmorpg) that doesnt have a monthly fee, but will make their money by selling expansion packs every once in a while. While I hear WoW is a fantastic game, and im sure tons of people love it enough to pay just about any ammount to play it... it seems to me that Blizzard is really overcharging their customers. I guess im just a tad upset about how expensive it is becoming to be a gamer, these days, and i dont like the way much of the industry is heading.

Re:Blizzard likes your money? (2, Informative)

joshsisk (161347) | more than 8 years ago | (#13898934)

They add new content and patches to WoW all the time. They recently added new instances, a PvP arena system and competitive ranking system for PvP, for example.

Re:Blizzard likes your money? (1)

Kirsha (201264) | more than 8 years ago | (#13898976)

Of course they like your money. They WANT your money.

Like a trial I saw on a dvd disc from PC Gamer. They give you the whole software and you get to play for free for 15 days. Of course, after the 15 days are gone, it doesnt matter. You still need to go out and buy the software at the store, even if they jsut gave it to you for free already.

Real success of WoW will be tested. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#13898991)

Lets see how many people will get expension. It will be a real and a good indicator of WoWMMO legacy.

 
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